 Right. Hello, everyone. Welcome to fall 2022, BC 206, talking this week, this semester. We're starting together on the ministry of the evangelist, teacher and pastor. So it's good to see all of you back. Let's get started with the session. Let's begin properly with a word of prayer. So maybe one of us could please lead in prayer. Anybody? Father, we want to thank you for this morning. We've come before your presence as your people. As we begin to learn a new subject today, Lord, we pray that you would open the eyes of an understanding and help us to know it. Oh, God, help us to understand your thoughts and we pray, oh, God, that you would use possible to give your word and help us to understand it clearly and help us to apply this in our own life. Thank you for all of us. We give you praise in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Thank you so much, John. All right. So before we start today's session, just give you a little bit of how the graded assessments are going to be. We'll have two assessments. The first assessment will be on the first or the second week of September, and that will be for 50 marks. And then the last week of November, which will be a final assessment, will again be for 50 marks. So we put that together and that will be your final grading system. That'll be your final grading marks. So I hope that's all right. 50 marks, second week of September, and the final assessment November last week. And so this course that we're going to study together is a really interesting course and just an introduction to what we're going to study. Now, many of us may feel, hey, I'm not an evangelist or I'm not a pastor or I'm not a teacher. I just want to do ministry and probably work and do ministry. But here's the thing. When the Lord Jesus talks about in the book, when Apostle Paul talks in Ephesians chapter four, he talks about the five-fold ministry. He does not say that this is only for people in the church. He doesn't say this is only for ministers who are in the church. He's just bringing forth the five-fold ministry. And let's look at the introduction. Let's read Ephesians chapter four, verse 77 to 16. Ephesians 4, 7 to 16. Now, Paul is writing to the church in Ephesus. We must understand that in Ephesus, there are a lot of divisions happening. It was a very challenging place to minister. And because we know the background of Ephesus, there was a lot of idol worship, prostitution, pagan gods that were prevalent during that time. And when this church was planted, Paul, the apostle, stayed there for after a few years. He stayed there for three years, ministering to the people. And so he writes this five-fold ministry in Ephesians 4, 7 to 16. He's writing to the church to tell them that this is what we are called for as a church. This is what the body of Christ is. And this is what it is made up of. And so let's read Ephesians chapter 4, 7 to 16. Yes, any one of us can read? Yes, anybody can read? I'll read Ephesians chapter 4, 7 to 16. But to each one of us, grace has been given as Christ upon apportioned it. This is why it says, when he ascended on high, he let captors in his strain and gave gifts to men. What does he ascended meant except that he also descended to the lower regions? He who ascended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens in order to fill the whole universe. It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists and some to be pastors and teachers to prepare God's people for work of service so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attending to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Then we will no longer be infants tossed back and forth by waves and blown here and there by wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in the deceitful scheming. Instead of speaking the truth and love, we will all things grow up into him who is the head that is Christ. From him the whole body joined and held together by every supporting ligament grows and builds his above and love as each part does it work. Amen. Amen. Thank you, Jeffrey. All right, so I wouldn't focus on a couple of words that the Apostle Paul uses here. Firstly, he says the Lord made or the Lord put some to be apostles. So it is the Lord's doing. So the Apostle Paul is trying to tell the believers that it is not our own choosing. It's not something that I choose. For example, I can say, hey, we looked at it even last semester when we talked about in lifestyle evangelism how we don't choose what God has called us to do. God has called us. He has made us. So if God has called me as a pastor, for example, and I say, no, I want to be an evangelist. I want to go out to different places. I want to explore different places. And this is what I want to do. Now, that is my own choosing. It's not something that God has assigned for me. But is it something that would be fruitful? Will we do the ministry in full measure that God expects us to do? And that's a question we must ask ourselves. Now, here it's interesting. It says the Lord put or the Lord has made some to be apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers. So it's not our own doing. Of course, God has given us gifts, talents. And we did learn that in who we are in Christ. Our gifts and our callings always go together. But we must understand this should be settled in our heart that each one of us, whether we are pastor, whether we are evangelist, whether we are a prophet, whatever we are. It is the Lord who has put you there. Initially, when I joined into the pastoral ministry, I thought to myself, hey, will I be able to do this? And do you think I'm capable of this? And there are so many people who are much better or there are so many people who are much more knowledgeable than me. I battled with that thought for a long time. But I remember this spending time in God's presence in the book of Jeremiah. Jeremiah chapter one, how the Lord calls Jeremiah. And God tells Jeremiah, I have chosen you. Don't tell me you are young. Don't tell me that you can't do it or you've got other things to do. Don't give these excuses because I have chosen you. Maybe some of us are feeling, God, I don't know if this is something that I should do or I should start my own ministry. I don't know how I'm going to do it. I'm not capable enough. Remember this, settle it in your heart. The Lord has put it. The Lord's work. If you are a pastor, if you are a evangelist, if you are a teacher, it is the Lord's work. Now what is our responsibility? Our responsibility is to grow in that area. That's our responsibility. So God says, okay, I want you to be, for example, I want you to be a pastor. I'm just giving this example, right? Now you know that God is called you. So I can't sit around and say, okay, God, you know, I will be a pastor someday. No, I'll have to prepare for it. I know that there's a lot of preparation work, a lot of studies, a lot of reading, a lot of spending time in God's presence. I was reading this book by Andrew Wormack and he mentions this sentence, which really touched my heart. He says, true ministry is birth out of intimacy with God. Isn't that powerful? True ministry, not just ministry. True ministry is birth out of intimacy with God. So when we know that God has called us, it is our responsibility to go back to God and ask God for strength, for wisdom, for grace to carry on in the function that he has called us for. So, you know, the enemy may come and put many thoughts in our hearts and minds, you know, what you have failed as a leader, you have, you know, you have not done what you're supposed to do. I don't see success in your ministry. There are no people coming in your church for the past two years, you're really not 20 people. That's all the enemy's thoughts. But remember, it is the Lord who has placed you there. The Lord has appointed you. The Lord's calling upon you is what, you know, is what is going on in your life. The ministry gift is a divine call. It's a divine call. It's not something that, you know, a senior pastor or another prophet has spoken about. No, it's a divine call because God can use prophets and other ministers of God to speak into our lives. But the divine call, the ministry gift is a divine call and God will place it in our heart. And we know that it is God, right? And this ministry gift, for example, a pastor, evangelist, prophet, apostle, all these gifts is resident with the person, right? You know, you know, there's this saying, right? Just an example, you know, Sachin Tendulkar, he was born to play cricket, right? I don't think he can do anything else. And he himself says that probably, you know, I don't think I can do anything else other than cricket. It was inside him, right? The same way, the ministry gift is inside us. It is something that is siding inside us. And as we continue our walk with God, as we journey with the Lord, the Lord begins to reveal His plans. The Lord begins to reveal His purposes, right? So men and women, all of us represent Christ's ministry to the church, right? Now let's look at a few examples, right? Look at the example of Moses, right? The Bible teaches us that Moses, he knew, right? He knew that God had chosen him to deliver the people out of Egypt. He knew it. It was there inside him, right? Even though he made a mistake, he delayed the whole process, but he knew, right? It was annoying inside him. Look at the great apostle Paul. He knew that God had called him for a purpose, right? And he knew the gifting that he had. He knew that I have a ministry to go out to reach out to plant churches. It was an apostolic ministry. It is written all over his life. He knew it. How can we say he knew it? He knew it because remember after that long break, he comes back to Jerusalem. And what does he do? Immediately he finds Barnabas and he says, Barnabas, let's go out. Let's reach out. Let's start on our first missionary journey. Now were there challenges? Were there difficulties? Yes. But were there churches planted? Yes. Were there miracles? Yes. Were there healings, deliverances? Yes. Now did the challenges stop him from continuing his ministry? Definitely not. Why? Because it's a gift inside which God has placed. He goes on on his second missionary journey, which was even more difficult than the first missionary journey, right? And again, we see great, wonderful works. We see that he plants churches in Corinth and Ephesus and Philippi and all these wonderful things that he did. Why? Because there was a gift inside him. There was a calling and he walked in that grace, right? Look at David King being a man who was just looking after sheep and shepherd boy and God just tells him, I'm going to make you a leader. There was a knowing inside him that when he becomes king, the first thing he did after he became king, he brought the Ark of the Covenant back to Jerusalem. He formed the worship team. You'll learn more of this in the worship ministry as well. But here's what I'm trying to bring out. The ministry gift inside us is a divine call which each one of us must walk in. Some of us may say, I don't know whether I'm a pastor. I don't know if I'm an evangelist. I don't know if I'm a worship leader or I don't know if God has just called me to volunteer in the church. Maybe some of us are in that place and I was in that place as well. But remember, when the gifting inside us, when we are faithful to God, when we begin to serve him faithfully, God will open the right doors. For me, it was leading worship. I was sharing the word and I thought, okay, my primary responsibility is to lead worship. I was comfortable doing that. All of a sudden, I was also preaching and then I was teaching in the Bible college. So I was like, what am I doing? And I love just going out and evangelizing with people. So I thought to myself, what am I an evangelist? Am I a pastor? Am I a teacher? A pastor? I don't know. But here's what I want to encourage each one of us. Don't worry about that. Don't worry, oh, what am I? Am I this? Am I that? Continue to go with what God has opened for you. And as you go through that journey, God will make you understand and realize what your calling is. What is the gift? Because that gift that is in you will begin to want to use this word explode. It will just manifest in greater realms. And you will say, hey, I never expected this. I never expected to my work to be so good or never expected it to be so fruitful. And you will realize it is God's gifting upon us. Is that all right, everyone with me? Feel free to share your thoughts. If you have questions, also feel free to stop me. Ask questions. Can make it as interactive as possible. Shall we go ahead? Shall we continue? Yes, Pastor. We are getting you. Yeah, that's great. Right. So on the nodes 0.4 men and women are Christ's gift to the church. So you and I are Christ's gifts to the church. We're a gift. So you may say, I'm not a pastor. I'm not an evangelist. I'm not a, you know, any of these in the fight for ministry. You are still a gift to the church because none of us can say we don't have a gift. None of us can say, you know, this is what I'm, you know, I cannot do anything in the church. None of us can say that. All of us have a gifting in us. And so God can use that gift. Now, what is the purpose of the fivefold ministry? Is it so that we have some, you know, leadership in the church? Or is it because we need some order in the church? Or is it because the church is not going to function properly without this fivefold ministry? Or is it because one is better than the other? What is what is the purpose of the fivefold ministry? Now, this is clearly described in Ephesians chapter four, verse 11 to 16. Maybe one of us can read Ephesians chapter four, verses 11 to 16. Anyone? John, is it okay if you can read? John or Zellie? Anyone? Ephesians chapter four, 11 to 16. Ephesians chapter four, 11. And he himself gave some to be opposed to some prophets and some evangelists and some pastors and teachers. First off, for the equipping of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the redefine of the body of Christ. Pastor Till, which verse? Verse 16. Okay. We're starting. Till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the major of the structure of the fullness of Christ. Verse 14. That we should no longer be children, renters, to and for, and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the tricky of man in the cunning craftness of deceitful clothing. Right. Thank you. Thank you, Zellie. Now, the apostle Paul is very clearly describing the reason why the five-fold ministry is there. Why does it function? First one, for the perfecting or the equipping of the saints. What is the word equipping? And I'm sure all of us know this, right? Equipping. It is to learn, to develop, to build. Right. So first reason why the five-fold ministry is prevalent in the church is for the equipping of the saints. So that means if I am or any one of us are a pastor or evangelist or a prophet, any of the five-fold ministry, what should be in our mind? The first thing that should be in our mind is, hey, I need to equip my fellow believers. Equip them in what? In the word. Equip them in the spirit. Equip them in right teaching, right understanding of the word. Equip them in flowing of the gifts of the spirit. And there's so much to learn in ministry, right? That is a primary responsibility. Now, the sad part that we see now is that in the body of Christ, some of them say, hey, I'm an apostle. I'm a prophet. I'm an evangelist. And now that becomes a whole place of position, becomes a place where people can really look at each other with competition. Like, hey, I'm a prophet. I care for God and I can tell everything. And then he makes the others feel that we are no good. We are useless. Only God is speaking to this prophet. What about us? And then you've got some evangelists. They are doing all these wonderful miracles. They're going, reaching out. People are getting healed. People are getting sick. People who are sick are getting healed. All kinds of wonderful miracles. Sometimes they will make us feel, or we may feel, hey, how come nothing is happening when I'm doing anything? Right? And there's this feeling of superiority. And when you look at the body of Christ now, we thank God for what God is doing. God still has his people who are true to the faith. But when we look on the other side, we see this competition that is strife. That is fame. People want power. People want money. They want luxuries. Now, it's not wrong to want all of this, luxuries and money. All this is important. But if that becomes priority, we are failing in the first aspect. What is the first aspect? Equipping the same. Now, if I'm a prophet, or if I'm a pastor, and in my mind, I'm just thinking, I want to be a pastor of 1,000 people, or my church would become 2,000, 3,000 people. If I'm thinking that I have failed in the first point, right? Because my first responsibility is to equip the saints, whether they are five people, whether they are 5,000 people, my responsibility is to equip the saints, right? That's what Paul is saying, for the equipping or the perfecting of the saints, right? So remember, each one of us, we may be in rural areas, we may be ministering in urban areas. Nobody may even know about our church. You may be just starting a small group. Nobody may even know what you're doing. But if you are as a leader, as a pastor, or a teacher, whatever God has called you to do, if you are doing the ministry with a mindset that I have to equip the people of God to be more Christ-like, you're on the right track, right? You are doing what God has asked you to do. You will see the fruit in your life. Now remember, somebody asked me this question, is fruit of the ministry, is it only numbers? You see churches with 10,000, 20,000 people, is the fruit only through numbers? And my answer is no, it's not only through numbers. Now, when we look at revivals back in the early centuries, it is not only numbers. We saw the equipping of saints. We saw that people were getting equipped to do ministries. And of course, there weren't large numbers. I was reading an article from Christianity today and how nowadays we've got these young pastors very good in speaking, right? They've got very good intellectual understanding of what's happening around the world. Very, very, very prolific readers, wonderful speakers, very confident and all of that. And then they go to a certain place and they'll find out why people are not coming to church, right? And so after finding out, they'll find out, okay, they'll get a survey and then they will plant a church and they will choose things that these people who are from what the response they've got, they'll choose to do something which is appropriate for them, right? And that's why churches are becoming big. Many thousands of them are flocking. And so we as Christ's body must understand that our main responsibility is equipping of the saints. Not that our name is, you know, becomes big, but God's name is glorified. And I see a question from Lyndon. So how would we differentiate the role of an apostle and evangelist? Okay, Lyndon, we will be talking more about that from the next chapter, but just to briefly answer your question. Now, the word pastor means shepherd, right? And shepherd is somebody who, you know, God has called him to be in that certain place. Now, for example, a pastor can, you know, if he's looking after the church, that is his, you know, he's going to be shepherding them, looking after them, right? They'll have troubles, there'll be difficulties. They'll have good times, bad times, right? And that's his main responsibility to shepherd to look after the sheep. Now, an evangelist is very different because what he can do is he can go to a place. He will start a church or he'll go to minister to people, right? He can either start a church or he won't start a church, but an evangelist doesn't stay in one place. Like he's always moving about, right? And so now remember that both these roads can also be, you know, can come together, but in the ministry function, right? It's different. A pastor is somebody who will shepherd a group, a set of people, but an evangelist is somebody who just keeps moving, traveling, ministering to people, right? And when it comes to missionary, what you've mentioned here, missionary is somebody who is more inclined towards a certain cause, right? So for example, Heidi Baker, when she was praying, she said, I want to go to Mozambique in Africa and help them there, right? So she went there, she stayed there, she started a work and that's how a mission field has been, you know, begins there. So it's very different, right? And we'll talk more about this, Lyndon, even as we go, because now we're in chapter one, we're just talking about the introduction, but when we get to each aspect of evangelist and the teacher and the pastor, we look at the differences as well. I hope that's all right. I hope that answers a bit of your question. Is that okay, Lyndon? So let's carry on. Yeah. The second purpose of the five-fold ministry, so that the saints can do the work of the ministry. Now, what is the first one to equip the saints? For what to equip the saints so that they go directly to heaven? No, right? It's not that they should go to heaven or they should have a good life. All of that is part of it, but the equipping is so that the saints also will do the work of the ministry. So it's a chain reaction. I equip you, you choose somebody else, you equip them, and then the work continues, right? So it doesn't stop. It's a chain reaction, right? And third one, this chain reaction will result in the building of the body of Christ. So you see that it all just so beautifully comes together. First of all says, listen, the purpose of this five-fold ministry, apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, teacher, the purpose of this first one is to equip the saints, not for anything else, not so that my ministry will be known so that I come on YouTube and Facebook. That's not the reason. First one is to equip the saints. Two, after equipping the saints, the saints, the believers must be willing to go and do the ministry. They must be equipped enough. And three, because they are doing this, the body of Christ is being built on. Now, don't you think the apostle Paul has done this so beautifully? Remember what he did? He chose this young man, Timothy. He said, Timothy, you come with me. I'll teach you everything. So wonderful it was. I mean, if you think of it, apostle Paul was a great man. He had such a great understanding and he had this great revelation of who Jesus Christ was. And he chooses a 17-year-old boy who doesn't know anything. He only knew he was a Jew. He chooses him. He doesn't say, hey, Timothy, you know what? You join Bible, call us, go to Gabriel, stay there for three years. I'll come up with three years and I'll see if you're ready. I'll take him. No. It's okay. I have to do what I have to do is I have to equip this boy. So he takes him along in the missionary journey. Two, what does he tell Paul? Sorry, what does he tell Timothy? Timothy, do the work of the ministry. Remember? And second Timothy in the final letter, he says, preach the word in season, out of season. Do the work of the ministry. And three, apostle Paul tells Timothy, you look after the church in Ephesus and build the body of Christ there. He does it so beautifully. Now each one of us are called for that. You may say, but I'm working in the, you know, I'm in the workplace. I'm working nine to five, go home. I have a family. I don't have time for this. True. I understand. But wherever we get an opportunity, we can, you know, be people who can teach others, equip others, minister to each other. Now remember when you're doing it one on one, it's not something that, you know, people will, you know, applaud us or say, oh, wonderful work. Nobody may say that, but what is happening is there is a building of the body of Christ. You're equipping the saints for the ministry. Right? Now how long will this continue? It will continue till, till the Lord Jesus Christ comes back. Right? Till we all come to the unity of the faith, each one of us. And then when we say unity of the faith, it only means that we are united together in Christ. Right? And we understand that it's very little to do about us and more about the Lord Jesus. Right? It's very little to do about our gifts because the gift also is given by God. Not only the calling, but also the gift. I come to the unity of the faith by saying God, I don't care, I don't really, it doesn't really matter whether we are a pastor or a venerable. It's there, but we want this so that we can all come to the unity of the faith. Two, so that we can all come to the knowledge of the Son of God. Right? What is the job of a apostle? Start churches, plant churches, equip the saints. And if you look at all of them in the five-fold ministry, which is the same responsibility, bring people to the knowledge of Christ. And all of us want that. Right? Now, if, for example, right, if an unbeliever comes to church and is a pastor there, will the pastor say, hey, I'm a pastor, I'm supposed to shepherd his flock, so I'll meet you, I'll call an evangelist, he's good at sharing the gospel. He will come and speak to you. Will he say that? He's not going to say that. Right? Why? Because all of us have the responsibility of sharing, it's the same gospel. We share that gospel and bring people to the knowledge of God. These functions, the functions on how we do it may be different. Right? Thirdly, this will continue till we all come to a perfect mature man, a full measure of Christ stature. This whole five-fold ministry will continue and continue and continue till all of us become the mature man, that is to be in Christ like us. Apostle Paul says it so beautifully. He says, imitate me just like I imitate Christ. I don't know how many of them can say that, but that's what God expects of us. You know, in the body of Christ, that each one of us become mature in the full measure of Christ stature. Now, even as we do all this and we study all this, the enemy knows, right? Okay, these are people who are mentoring other people, who are teaching other people. And that is why the enemy targets leaders. He does leaders. He will try to crush them. He will try to bring all kinds of difficulties and challenges upon them. He will try to just ruin their ministries. And he has done it in so many instances and he has been successful. That is why we need to be strong as leaders, come to the unity of the faith, understand that we are not building our own kingdom but the kingdom of God, right? So this is just half of the introduction. Any questions, do you have any questions, any thoughts, can continue. Should we continue? Yes, Pastor. Okay, all right. So, yes, go ahead, Isaac, do you have a question? I was just saying, of course, so we are following. All right, great. Thank you, Isaac. Right, so just a side note here. The pastor and the teacher are considered extensions of the same ministry. Now, there are many, you know, when we look at revisions of the Bible, when we look at these new teachings that have come up, many have considered pastor and teacher as one, right? And so they've reduced the five-fold ministry into four, right? Because a pastor will also teach, right? So that's a common sense. But we will stick to the five-fold ministry because I personally know of people who can, you know, who are called to teach. They can only teach, but they can't pastor a church. I personally know of people. So they are extensions of the same function, but not always, you know, a teacher can be a pastor or a pastor can be a teacher, not always, right? So we will stick to the five-fold ministry. Now, let's read 1 Corinthians chapter 12, 28 through 31. 1 Corinthians 12, 28 through 31. Yes. Any one of us? 1 Corinthians chapter 12 was 28 through 31. 1 Corinthians chapter 12 verses 28 to 31. And God has said so in the church, 1st, opposed to secondary prophets, 3rdly teachers, after death to miracles, and gifts of feelings, prayer, covenants, and justice of tongues, and all apostates, are all prophets, are all teachers, are all workers of miracles, are all the gifts of aliens, do all speak with tongues, do all interpret, what's covered endlessly, the best is true, and yet, true, true high unto you, a more excellent way. Thank you, Abubakar. Thank you. Now, this passage is a little bit confusing. Why? Because Paul says, God has chosen some, and then he starts off the word by saying first, right? So first, the apostles, then second, the prophet, third, the teachers. So he goes on in the list. Now, why does he say first, second, third? Is it because the prophets, apostles are the highest college, and then second comes the prophet? And is there a certain order in their ranks? Now, we know that the Bible teaches us that God is a God of order. There's no confusion in his kingdom. He's not the author of confusion. He's God of order. Whatever God has done and is doing, he does it in an orderly manner. It's not like the church was birthed in the book of Acts, and people were just doing everything. No, God gave the wisdom to the leaders to make them understand, hey, there has to be certain order. Now, remember Paul writes to the Corinthians, and what does he tell them? Hey, you all are coming to church, and some of them are leading worship, some of them are talking to each other, some of them are having the Lord's table. There's no order in the church. There's confusion. So he gets really upset. He says, hey, don't you have homes to eat and drink and talk? When you come to church, learn to do things in an orderly manner. So it's true that there is spiritual order set in church. Now this order is not an order of superiority. It's not like apostles are more superior than prophet, and pastors are the last on the list. It's just order that God has designed. So this division will help us to clearly understand the functions of the ministry. Now, make sure that you understand this, that this order is not. So be assured of this. It's not something that they are greater than I am, I am smaller than all. In 1 Corinthians 12-28, one, there are two important points you must understand why this order has been placed. First one, for establishment. When you look at the early church, thousands of people were added into the church. And out of these thousands of people, how will they choose? I'll just come to your question. So out of these thousands of people, how do they choose who's doing what? What if in the thousand people, there are 100 prophets, but they are only serving coffee? Or what if there are some 100 wonderful teachers, but they're only sitting every Sunday listening to the sermon? So how do they choose people? And that is why this order of establishment was set in place in the early church. God gave the apostles first. You have an apostolic calling and they understood. And so they were given priority first. You as a leader, you set certain things in the church. Now, for example, if you see Peter and James, they were the apostles in the early church. They were given. James became the leader of the church. But if you look back, he hardly had any experience. He is the half brother of Jesus who said, Jesus has gone mad. He's out of his mind. But now a few years later, he's a leader of the church in Jerusalem. Why? Because they saw that there was the apostolic calling in him. And out of these thousands of people, basically what Paul is trying to say is when you have order, you will know how to work within the church. Now, for example, let's take an example. Say there are 500 people in the church, current day, 500 people in church. Now, in that 500 people, there are maybe 10 people who are unwell. And if I don't know what I should do or who I should reach out to, there could be confusion in the church. But if I know, hey, this person has a healing, he has that healing ministry. And when he prays, really that gift is there in him. He's like an evangelist who has that gift of healing and miracles. So I can go to him or her and say, hey, you know what? I'm going through this difficulty. I have this sickness. It's been there for the past 10 years. Can you please pray for me? I think wrong and going to the pastor, but you can also go here. I hope you're getting what I'm trying to say. But then you probably have, you know, some teachings in the church and maybe you're confused. Oh, but the scriptures, you've read something, it's a kind of passage. You're confused. It says, why does Paul say a woman should not preach and you're confused? So you know, hey, there are teachers within the church. So I can go to them and find out what this means. So I can go and say, OK, this person is a good teacher. He's well versed with a word of God. So let me go and check with him. And so don't you feel there's so much order? There's no chaos. Now, the pastor should not feel bad. These people are in my church. Why are they going asking, you know, people within the church, they can come and ask me. Now, the pastor is feeling bad. Then he has this insecurity problem. And he's insecure, which should not be there, right? Because the body of Christ will have all these functions. There's an order in the way things are done. Let's look at Abu Bakr's question. He says, can a teacher of the word start a local church? That's a very, very good question, Abu Bakr. Now, here's what I would say personally is what I understand. Now, as we said, a teacher and a pastor are extensions of the same ministry. Now, if you feel if there's a teacher, right, a person who is very well worse to the word, he's an excellent teacher. And if he feels if God leads him, you know, you start a church and your church will be only focusing on teaching of the word of God. Definitely, God can use him to start a church. There's no limitations, right? But there could be a teacher who'll say, no, this is what I want to do. I want to, like, personally, I know of people who are very, very, very good teachers. They are excellent. But they only prefer going to small groups and teachers. They prefer that. They prefer one-on-one, five people, 10 people. I'll go teach them, really equip them. Let them become pastors or leaders, right? So, yes, to answer your question, a teacher can start a local church, but he or she must be very careful to know that, okay, God has really directed me and instructed me to do this. If there's a leading, there's a calling, and there's a push from God, then yes, definitely they can. But if there's no push from God, just continue to teach, right? Whether it's a small group setting, bigger setting, just go ahead and teach. Abu Bakre, I hope that answers your question. Yes, that's possible. Yeah, answers. Great. All right, so we'll take a 10-minute break. We'll come back at 10 o'clock. We'll continue with our second session. 10 minutes break. Thank you.