 Welcome back. It's still the breakfast on plus TV Africa. We're looking at the energy sector this time around specifically the electricity subsector. Now some power experts have condemned the increase in electricity tariff, describing it as obituary and calling for the immediate reversal of the increase. Now the expert who spoke with journalists in Lagos said the sudden increase is illegal and such condemnation has continued to throw the increase in electricity tariff by discos. What consumer groups and industry experts describe in the hike as illegal, let me just mention some of them. Shino or Dubem, national coordinator, where is the light and advocacy group said there's no noble reason for the perennial and time secret increase in electricity tariff by the discos beyond inhuman exploitation. We have the publisher of energy Times, Coyote and Kudairo joining us right now on this discos. Good morning to you Coyote. Good morning sir. Yes, it is a pleasure to have you. Let's talk about this increment if it's actually justifiable. What do you really make of it? Nigerians are living in abject poverty. Most of them cannot really use even clean sources of energy. They depend on wood and charcoal and right now this increment in the wake of you know, fuel scarcity, high transportation costs. What do you really make out of all of this? Yes, thank you. The recent slight increase in the electricity tariff to me is unjustifiable. Looking at the way we were told in recent times, that was last year where Nigerian electricity regulatory commission told us that for any increase to take place, that would be 24 or 12 hours light. Up to this moment, if I can say, even before the only time we enjoyed light very well in some area last year was around December when the during the U.S. I would say it categorically because of the report I got that there was slight instability in electricity supply in some area in some states at that period. But that does not justify increasing the tariff. Yes, it has been said that the regulatory body in August last year told us that for any increase to take place, that would be 12 hours light in some area, that would be 24 hours. Though it wasn't specifically which area we enjoyed a stable power supply. But unfortunately, it's the same regulatory body that approved that slight increase. And to justify what they have done, we were told that just a category of people that got that increase. What a category of people, what a small group of people got increased. We are all in the same area. We have electricity are being supplied to people. Unfortunately, the stability is not yet established that the people are enjoying that what the system companies, the consumers. So to me, it's not right. Although in 2020, there was a document which was even signed by the by the labor union, including the next, including this code, including generation, generation components that would be an increase twice in a year. But that was based on stability of power supply. But unfortunately, we are yet to achieve that before this slight increase. And another thing that I noticed which may reduce the tension, which it has come to our knowledge and the way things are going is the usage of prepaid meter. Right now, it's difficult for consumers to even know whether their tariff has increased at what percentage. That's the thing. Because I subscribe, I didn't even know how much I pay per unit and all of that. I'm even surprised that there's been an increase as it is. That is one of the disadvantages of prepaid meter. It's quite difficult for consumers to discover an increase. And that is likely to go on like that, like that, for many years to come. So consumers have to be vigilant and be checking what they are buying from their vendors at all periods of time. Because, yeah. I was going to say that a profit seems to be their order of the day as opposed to services. Because if you look at it right now, they are bridging all forms of the rules of engagement and government is just down looking at them. And nothing is really being done about it. They're just after profit and not service. No, I won't say they are just after service. They are only after profit without service. I wouldn't look at it into it. I understand the system and I know what is going on. Yes, there are certain things we cannot even explain. A lot of things are going on. I'm not defending anybody. Because I'm trying to understand if they are not after profit really. Because if you look at it, I've had complaints. A lot of people are always complaining that there was, the transformers are 40 at the end of the day. It is the community that contributes to get these transformers back on so that they can enjoy these electricity services. At the end of the day, they are still being charged a premium for it. Yes, yes. We are not in the socialism, we are in the capitalist state. And unfortunately, what we have seen, we continue. We continue until we are having a stability in the power supply. The discourse are desperately looking for what to make in form of profit. The genco, every one of them, and that is why I have been telling, if you look at my column in 90 times this week, the plan to privatize five power stations, which was built by NIPP, Nagyajeta Power Oding Company, is to be a course on Nigeria. If we go ahead and privatize that five private companies, that's a power plant. Look at it. That Nagyajeta Power Oding Company established 10 power plants. We sold five of it. The five of it, we don't know how they are producing today. We don't know what they are generating today. It is only the five that remain, that is sustaining the economy of this country. Now, the federal government, because they want to, I mean, they want to finance the 2023 budget, just one year budget. They say they want to say that power plant, are only making where the world is going. Even in US, there are power plants that belongs to the states that belong to the government. It's not all the power plants in the United States is privatized. And even if you privatize this power plant, must you use to finance a budget of one year that is going to the end of private, into the end of individualized? See, I mean, these are the things that are occurring in the economy. And these are the things that is working in the system. And that is why the inflation is rising every day. How can you, how can the government think of saying they want to sell the national power, a national asset, because of to finance the budget? And that is what we are saying. If I have to box in, would you really say that this supposed privatization of the electricity sector as it is has not really done us all the good that we expect? Electricity privatization in the country has been failure. There is nothing that has worked since privatization of this asset. What can you pinpoint to that has worked? Is it the generating companies that are producing at higher levels? Like for this one, look at ECB. ECB was producing at the rate of 6,000 or 4,000 at that. No, was producing around 3,500 before privatization. Today is not producing up to that. All what we are earning that is to be an investment that goes into that power plant. Nothing so so for it. Look at all the other generating power plants. If we include hydro, what have they added to the system? I can remember, I remember when Boleyke was the minister of power. We went to ECB. On that day, the Nigeria economy made 4,000 megawatts. Although it didn't last for three days. Look at when Boleyke was the minister and look at it. We are still in Maroli on the same 4,000 megawatts. Is it the country? We are still in Maroli on the same 4,000 megawatts. We keep on pumping money to the power sector. Nothing so for it. Now, you want to sell a little more that is producing for the country because you want to finance a budget for a deficit for just 12 months. You want to spend that money into the system because of election is a rant. Where in the world is it all? Let's look at the supply aspect. Nigerians are actually demanding lots of electricity to power different things right now. Over time, we seem to hear lots of excuses and some sort of reasons by the discourse. They will tell you that the reason for short supply is because consumers are not paying their bills. As at Wendy, they talk about water level. They talk about fuel and all of that. Are these reasons actually cogent? Let me have been telling people there is no reason any discourse Denko can give. Yes, there are standard, we call it standard. That is power that is not taking standard power. And these are the reasons that we are having problems in the economy today. Yes, there are certain times power will be generated generated to the national grid. Unfortunately, maybe because of the weak national grid, this power will not be taking your standard. They have to sort down some plans. They have to sort down some units in some plans. Possibly because of the great challenge. And if this thing get to the lowest level and that is why you see national grid collapses all the time. Yes, there are standard power which are not being taken by the discourse. The reason why they are not being taken, I don't know. And this is what next is fighting about that. Why should you not take power when you needed this power to distribute to the consumers? Unfortunately, we still have this challenge till now. We still have this challenge till now. And unfortunately, again, you see, we don't have any strong regulatory body in the system because I believe now some discourse supposed to have been fine for not taking power from the national grid when this power is generated to the grid. But we didn't see any fine. I look at the quarterly report of the next. I didn't see any fine that limited to standard power in it. All what we see is complaining that this goal, if we sort down power, when this power was generated to the national grid, and it is here we tell you that there is nothing wrong with the national grid that is a guy. And we give residences that is only limited to certain area. That's why the thing is not being taken. So these are all involved in running around the same circle. And we have been in need for a very long time. Can you imagine, as I told you, 4,000 megawatts was generated when the minister, I was with him to a power plant when the passenger was the president. We image that 4,000 in a day. The next day the thing fell to 3,000. And since then we've been on needs, 4,000. Nothing changed. We keep on spending money, the same money. The same more, more, more money. You believe that within last year, you've got a TCN or federal government spent almost 2,000 to say to improve the national grid. Up to this moment, some communities, some states are blackout. Nothing changed. All right, Coyote, let me try and understand how this tariff increment really works. Is it that the decos out of your own volition, maybe they just go on a whim and decide to increase the tariff? They do want to be responsible in the direct increment. No, no, no, no. The disco cannot go on their own to increase without the support of NEC. So NEC is in support of this particular increment right now. So NEC is in support of this particular increment right now. Yes, yes, yes. It's not possible for disco to just identify. It has to be in support of NEC. NEC has put these cases last year. So it was a strategy to bring it out on the unitary. So that people will have opportunity to, and I said, it's difficult for consumers now to detect. Even if it is being increased every day, you cannot detect it. It's difficult. Your own is to buy from your vendor, buy your recharge, and you know what you want is to have that. Is that the case? And that's why you don't see any protest. It's only a few people who are talking. Assuming you have a bill, you have a bill which led to education in the recent past. Assuming you have a bill, you'll be able to even calculate the interest. But some people will even recharge from now to prepare and pay the fees. Because they don't follow it. They don't follow it. All they want is to apply. And I mean, let me say this. See, from what I've seen and from the experience I've had, Nigerians are ready to pay any amount for stability power supply. If we get 24 hours power supply, they won't complain. It's like, see what's happening today. People are paying as much as Nigerians per liter for fuel. They're not complaining. Because they were desperately looking for fuel and they want it. And what there have been 10 people, I'm sorry to divert. If we want to deregulate, deregulate. Why are you, and government is not saying anything because I mean it. Nobody's even moved about it. Which is quite unfortunate. It's actually alarming, you know. But what exactly the remote causes are the claim right now by the NRC, you know, for this particular increment. Because if they're increasing, they should be given us reasons why these increments are being done from time to time. No, no. You see, they don't need to tell us. They don't need to tell us. We are paid. No, there have been a document which I shared with the people, the bus sign in 2020 to 2027. It was taken clearly. And we know there was a committee set up at the federal government. Do you remember that time? Yes, I do. So it was taken clearly that there would be slight increase and maybe a bit more increase in one year or two years. It was like this. So there was no need for any calling. And they said, I read it, consultation. Consultation is only meant for when there is going to be a bit more increase, not a slight increase. And if you look at this, it does a slight increase. Even me, I didn't know that there was an increase. All it was, when people were paying us, I now went back to my... You don't check. That I got from my friend home. I now compare one or two things together and now see the difference. All right. So the increase, the one they did now, according to what they said, it's only affected, it affected the only slight community, like people in the Philippines, mostly. Who doesn't have access to this power at all times? You understand? And if... Why should they be paying higher? People in the village. Go ahead, we can hear you. Go ahead. Yeah. If you look at the economy, honestly, the change here doesn't help to matter. It doesn't at all. These people are buying, they are buying equipment. Truly. They are buying certain things to add to the system. And some of them are even paying loan in the bank. And that is what I'm saying. One of the failure of privatization of Nigeria, I think, we left it in the end of people doesn't have to every morning pump into the system. They came and started selling property, relying on what the system will generate for them, not what they are putting into the system. Fortunately, all the discos are in debt with banks and they are struggling to pay this debt. And that is what we are finding ourselves now. And, in fact, the government we have doesn't think that it's not necessary to privatize another asset when they want to privatize those existing resources. Now, the failure government wants to go ahead and privatize a system, a power, some power power, that are even sustaining the economy. All right. Kairi, as we round off right now, because the consumers are the ones to the center of it all. They can't just fold their arms. What can they really be doing now going forward to protect themselves? Yes. What I would advise is that the consumer has to be united at this time. And we have to have united funds. And I would subscribe to protest. We need to have a constant relationship with NEC. And NEC have to be up to the task. And it is unfortunate at this period that people have to pay more for electricity when there is no default way to even power the generator. So, fatally, many businesses are closing down. Some people have not even opened since the beginning of this year, which is quite unfortunate. And those who opened will not even work because there is no power, there is no light in their respective offices. So, my suggestion is that the consumer right now should be united and form a formidable group. Not all these Qatar, the HGO that are looking for whatever they want to do with it and all those things. There should be a one strong union that will fight for the consumers. That is my suggestion. All right. Thank you so much. We continue to have this increase without the knowledge of consumers at all times. And what are we suspecting? All right. Thank you. He's advised that Nigerians should form a very strong, formidable front. So, they actually can actually tackle neck over all of these, you know, increments that they might not even be aware of. Thank you once again, Kairadeh, could I publish an Energy Times newspaper? Thank you so much. Thank you, sir. All right. We'll take another break or come back and this time around. We'll be wrapping up the week with sports in a moment. Stay with us.