 Okay it's time for our second hot topic teachers in Nigeria and world over where yesterday described us destiny moders and life changers for their critical roles in the mental and behavioral development of their pupils and students. Among those who signed their praises yesterday being World Teachers Day was Speaker of the House of Representatives Tajidina Baz who noted that teachers or lecturers not only educate but also serve as guardians and mentors to their words in the schools at all levels. The speaker assured teachers of the readiness of the 10th house under his leadership in assisting the President Bola Akmeh Tinuba administration towards the development of the education sector in the country as well as better welfare for workers in the sector. Now we're being joined this morning to discuss this as our second hot topic by Yinka Awobo-Piers. She's the lead consultant wooden tots consult limited and proprietor wooden tots a nursery school. Good morning to you. Good morning. I saw you nodding your head when I got to the part where he promised that they'll fix the welfare situation in the country. All right so let's start by talking about where we are right now today in our education sector in the country. Okay um first of all I would like to appreciate teachers um I want to yesterday I did give a shout out to all teachers to say that you it's a tough job to be honest it's a tough job however the world's immense because seeing a child grow from one you know you see a child at the beginning of the session they come into your classroom and then at the end of the session when they're going you see that improvement there is no feeling like that so teaching to me is still the best job in the world it's the most rewarding. Now in terms of education in Nigeria what I have observed is that I believe that Nigeria as the country has not decided what is the education goal what do they want to achieve with education because education is not a maze in itself it's a means to an end it's a means to achieve development for the country so Nigeria as a country has to sit down and decide what are our education goals what we want to achieve with education is education just going to be just let's teach children to read and write literacy is just the base there's so much more that you can do with education as we know education informs development so definitely I think that with the right thinking government with putting the right people in the room we can begin to have that discussion however at the point where we have been discussing for so long we need action exactly we need action because the road has been going on and we cannot let it continue because we are in the we have now gone past the fourth industrial revolution we are now in the age and Nigeria is still behind so we need to begin you know when you say Nigeria has not yet decided the direction they want to go in terms of education I found out quite alarming because as you said this is the AI revolutionary age this is 2023 and then you know as we celebrate 63rd anniversary back then in the golden days Nigeria used to have top-notch education people from other parts of Africa even in Asia used to come here take us through the changes that we've experienced in this sector so what I've observed with education over the years is what has caused this is the lack of funding so when you withdraw funding from a sector it becomes to degenerate and that is what I think has happened now having said that this is a growing population remember what population were we in this golden years we're talking about now Nigeria has doubled in population in that time 200 and something million people and in that 200 and something million people 40 percent 41 percent of them are 0 to 14 years old school children so to imagine that number it would do a very quick calculation 40 percent of 200 it is more 50 million and that's huge I mean I mean 80 million that's a lot 80 million to educate 80 million is a lot I know the Niger education system is the is the whole nine years that's the basic education everyone must have yeah so if you're going to do that and you have 41 percent you're trying to you know you're trying to to educate it's a lot it's a lot so they really need to look at the funding I know that United Nations recommend a certain number and all of that but every country has to decide what is going to work for it that is what I believe that okay United Nations says do 14 percent do 80 percent do 22 percent what matters is that every country has to decide what kind of education do we want and fund that kind of education not be not be guided by this must be a number there is no specific education education is that kind of thing that you call it is not you know sometimes they think of it as a sunk cost it is not a sunk cost indeed it's an investment because every money you spend in education although you do not get it back like directly but it is an investment in your country you are investing people I'll give you an example when they do research when you look at universities when they do research sometimes they research things that mean nothing to you or not yeah but look at what happened with the COVID the people that are doing that we said they had absolutely nothing to do with anything where they was that we said that they're now used to determine where the COVID the COVID jobs were going to be so education is the kind of thing that you just begin you just invest it is not something you think about oh we have to put in money we're going to get you can't it's not it can't work that way and before you see effects of improvement in education at least 16 years 16 years a minimum of 16 years there's no way you invest in it you think about it a child goes into primary one at age five by the time that child is 16 years that's 21 so you cannot see the the the effects of investing before that time so to be honest I think we need to think we really really need to sit as a country and we strategize our thinking about education where do we want to go if you think about it the curriculum that we're using now was conceived right after the war 1969 how relevant is this today how relevant is that thinking are we really united nigeria as we end with that curriculum is the nyc an effective system we need to really you know one thing we have to do as the country's continuous improvement and to do that you have to do reflective thinking so you have to keep thinking what is it that we did that and how did it what impact did it have and how can we correct that how can we improve that going forward and that's where we need to be with education obviously with everything but particularly with education because education is at the center yeah everything that we're doing deeply deeply at the center so now we have a new administration and a new minister from the body languages you've seen would you say this there's there's hope and being an insider what are the things you think must be done urgently to reverse this rot which didn't start 10 years ago they didn't start 20 years ago what are the things I must do urgently to reverse this so what I believe is that we have to decide on our own path as a country so if we say we want to educate children to be farmers then that is how we go forward I see a lot of positive conversations a lot of talking but what we want as I said is action what is the new administration going to do put your money where your mouth is definitely one thing in Nigeria is that if you go look for policies there are many initiatives that the government we have so many we have meetings all the time we have you know meetings we say okay this is our communicators are the action items who are the people responsible for them who are the people funding them so they don't need to recreate anything there's nothing to recreate because it already exists they just need to go back to the drawing board and say okay we have all this what can we do let's take the case of out-of-school children it depends on who you are some people will say it's 20 million some will say it's 10.5 million we can't even agree on how many out-of-school children we have and the reasons why they are out-of-school or to have that agreement how can we prefer a solution so we don't even have what a template to start working from because we have not agreed on what it is that the issues are so let's agree on the issues so because if you just let's fund children children out of school is that the issue why are they out of school why are they out of school it is not that it's not just addressing the symptoms but the causes of these problems why are they out of school in the north principally where we have most of the out-of-school children you find out there was a research that was done they found out the parents said when the children go to school they didn't farm so they pulled them out of school to go and farm because farming is their livelihood should you have a different type of education in the north to meet this need so the parents can understand that we are grooming your children to even be better farmers should you have that kind of so having a on rural policy for education has to we have to think regional we have to think the needs of every region for example the east i'm sure you met a lot of easterners that are that are entrepreneurs that's what they do what kind of education do they need it is prince it's like it's in their blood to be honest it's like it's it's an innate thing for them what kind of education do you need to prefer for them what do they need that is what you do education is supposed to meet a need literacy is basic ability to read and write is important in this world we're in you literally cannot survive without the ability to read and write and we're not sure of what to do the ecosystem of apprenticeship has become a global example we're not even harnessing it here at home so there are many we we are let's just be honest with ourselves we're a very diverse country we are and diversity does not mean different or anything it just means we appreciate each ethnic groups diversity and we use that to educate them to make sure that the children because ultimately this are the future they are the ones going to take nigeria forward and if we do not do right by them nigeria wouldn't move forward because you are not going to be here forever we have to hand over the button definitely and the best way to do that is to make sure that they have the education to do it because if you do not have the education then they can't do it you know yesterday when the vice president was talking you know about all of the celebrating teachers and talking about and you said talk is cheap they've been talking not be today however some of the things he he highlighted which are true is the fact that there are issues with manpower there are issues with you find out sometimes the teachers the people you have as teachers are those who couldn't get employment in other sectors of the society and so it becomes a last resort how do they make it attractive so that qualified people people who love teaching who are excited about molding young ones will be the ones in that sector let's talk about the welfare so one of the reasons i'm sure i don't have you aware that 30 percent of teachers leave their jobs in the first five years and the main reason is actually not just renumeration it's stress because teaching hours are long hours they come in early to welcome the children and they stay later to look at the children's work market prepare for the next day so stress of course renumeration is important however you find out that people are valued if people are valued then there is a balance in renumeration so even if you cannot pay them top dollar but you show them that you really value them Nigerian teachers are not valued Nigerian teachers are not respected you are now remember how our teachers were like the gods whatever they said even our parents could not question them what's happening in Nigeria today and it's just not in Nigeria it's all over the world that's what is happening so it's a global problem it is a global problem why is that what has happened the theme of this year is um what just is the teachers we need for the education we want yeah and it says the global imperative to reverse the teacher shortage so it is not it's not just in Nigeria that we have this problem we have the problem all over the world so it's about valuing the teachers appreciating them for the work that they do every day so how do you value someone you ask me it is in the way you treat them renumeration yes that's one step but actually valuing them treating them with respect definitely there are people in the system that have abused that respect yeah over the years which has cost the disrespect but want to begin to address that then you see a change it will attract the people you're looking for now let's talk about attracting the teachers when i interview teachers you know what they say they gave me education none of them come in and say i chose education as a course as a course in school they gave me education the jam past my guess what the jam past my college of education no one 100 over 400 that is 25 percent that's the lowest how are you putting your lowest IQ into teaching and you expect a system that is going to be excellent wow 100 over from that's 25 percent now i'll give you a scenario i'll say you look at finland we talk about finland a lot finland has a fantastic education system yes a very small country five and five million people but you know to be a teacher in finland you have to be top of your class mm-hmm you also have to have a master's degree before you can teach elementary school in finland and it's a holistic thing teachers are paid equally as doctors they are treated with respect in the society and the whole country regards education as important so you know it's how did we drop this ball really how did we drop this ball because even though yes our population has doubled but where did we drop the ball where did the standard start falling where it appears what we have is the opposite of what's happening in finland where the worst of us are the teachers sometimes the worst of us are our leaders i say nothing so where did we drop the ball to be honest with you nobody can put a peak point and say this is where we drop the ball it's a gradual degeneration of the system and it started with lack of funding losing the value system won't be stopped regarding education as something that is critical to the growth of the country mm-hmm you know it's a very this things are subtle it's not usually in the surface yeah and that's why we have to be very careful the body language we pass on to people so you say you value someone but in your body language you don't value them that's why i asked you the body language of this administration and the new minister well i have only heard him speak once okay to be honest i cannot make a judgment on that but the body language definitely they i mean they're saying the right things they're doing you know talking the talk don't have governments over the years have government interfaced with those in the sector in making some of these changes so you find out that a lot of times they make these decisions without the input of the teacher you know that teaching is not a it's not a professional job in Nigeria teaching is a trade job really yes wow the nut is a trade it is not considered a professional amazing yes so when you look at people and you know this young gen gen gen z they want to do certain things they want professionals so when you tell them they're going to teach you're not a professional they won't take the job they won't even go into it but why does it why you categorize as a trade job considering that education is one of the oldest professions without educators there'll be no lawyers there'll be no doctors there'll be no professors how organized is the teacher's union with everything in Nigeria you see a lot of people at the top talking but you don't see the bottom up you don't see people down you know like having a voice and having input into what is going on in the leadership so we'll have a big country which is why i think it has to be regional kind of thinking so we have a very massive country number one people with the rural areas you know the education is the highest employer in Nigeria education is the highest should be it is i think it is about 40 something percent that education women in education about 40 something of the workforce of women in Nigeria so if you're not reaching those people you are not asking their opinion you're not asking them what is happening in the classroom and how can we make it better we make it better but you bring out this new word and say do this you remember the issue of the history did they ever explain to us why they pulled history from the classroom everyone keeps wondering why did they also explain to us why they brought it back we don't know there has to be a conversation and the only way you can make an improvement in any sector is by talking to the boots on the ground who are the people doing the job what are the issues affecting you what is it that you need for us to do i'm sure you've heard of teachers going on strike all over the world it's not just a problem in Nigeria is that the leadership of even the teachers union are not really talking to the people the boots on the ground the people that are lifting the heavy weight they need to talk to them they need to ask them it's a multifaceted problem so you have the government and then you have the teachers themselves being a part of the problems now how how are we preparing our future in terms of technology ai information technology because that's the age that's the stage where we are now how are you your body preparing the future leaders for what's ahead so i want to say that the private schools in Nigeria are doing a lot of work in that area they're making sure the children have access to ai they're able to use technology they are digitally literate so that is going on and remember it's changing so rapidly as well so you have to be dynamic in your thinking in your approach to learning look at what happened with the covid we all went home and guess what schools went online within two three weeks nobody and nobody appreciated that are you sure when i say publicly acknowledge that that was a feat in itself that they achieved so quickly within three weeks a lot of schools were online so i believe that a lot of private schools in Nigeria are doing a lot in that sector and i think the government i'm not i don't have the statistics i know that in legal state they are doing something with the public schools the extent of that i cannot speak to because i'm not a government official however i have heard that they are doing things but a lot of the ai the private schools are doing that now you ask me what is the percentage of private to public school so you're talking about 40 something to 50 something percent so we still have a deficit definitely we do still do have a deficit but it is an expensive step so i think that is what the government is doing now i'm going to be radical and say must we be on the ai trend if we can't afford it for now can we not do something that works for us china as a country decided agriculture was going to be central to it before it went into technology and guess what at 1.4 billion they are feeding their country and exporting food you are you educate for what you need yeah if you're not ready for air it is only a few people that are going to be doing ai it is fine everybody does not have to be on the ai wagon we can have people doing just normal things normal literacy how to do this education and how to do that we can have them doing that and all of that can be what we're educating children so definitely i don't think that is the one one path to success i think it's whichever way the government decides to move forward whichever way the teacher the government decides to move forward but then it is very critical that we know where the government is going it is very critical that those of you in the sector are carried along it also very critical that those of you in the sector organize yourselves in such a way that you are strategic collaboration one of the things that we struggle with i think there's too much competition that we are not we are not aware that we are not collaborating and the competition is given by i want all these pupils to come to my school instead of thinking about the greater good so that is for the teachers we need to collaborate more we need to do more because through collaboration is how growth happens one person doing small work in this sector is not going to change Nigeria we have to work together to make bigger circles so that we can have a bigger impact indeed indeed indeed and your rewards teach us rewards still here hopefully in heaven you've talked about how the pleasure of seeing those who you molded from little to you know zero to fifteen sixteen is such a deep one however your rewards you still want them here and how do you want them quickly before we wrap you need to feed yourself so you still need to get paid so you still need to get paid however you need to get paid right because if you get paid right then you will be inspired to do the work but if your pay is so little it's like if you ask someone to come to the bank to come and work you see how they want to go and work definitely yes but if you ask them to come and work as a teacher they'll be dragging their feet so that should be part of the starting point yes the enumeration so that you can attract the bright minds to teach and thank you so much Yinka Awobo Pierce thank you so much it's been so good having you on the program Yinka Awobo Pierce is a lead consultant wooden touch consult limited and proprietor wooden touch nursery school happy teacher's day to you in areas if you're a teacher watching we appreciate you we love you and we say kudos to you but you can do better as she has just you know informed us that's the much we have for you on the program today and indeed the week do join us on monday for more on plus tv i am Maureen Menongwiz you're gonna be half of the team i just thank you for being there and do have a great day