 Welcome to Cooper Union, what's happening with human rights around the world on Think Tech Live, broadcasting from our downtown studio in Honolulu, Hawaii in Moana, New York. I'm your host, Joshua Cooper. And today we're looking at the future of sustainable development, the United Nations High-Level Political Forum, and I'm so fortunate to be joined today by Rili, who's heading up as the director of FINGO, looking at Finnish Sustainable Development NGOs. We are here at the United Nations headquarters for the UN High-Level Political Forum and it's a two-week global gathering, bringing together community, cities, capitals and civil society. Why does FINGO come to this important high-level political forum and what are some of the highlights so far? I think it is a really important place to be because this is the place where the world comes together and then really thinking about the sustainable development and the whole idea for every year to come here is to really follow a little bit on the progress that how the member states are really doing the sustainable development. So some of the countries are reporting voluntarily what they're doing, so it's some kind of showcase that how the progress has went on. But also it's opportunity for the other stakeholders, like civil society, where I'm coming from. So it's really important place for us to come together but also talking with the member states, with academics, with other stakeholders, like local authorities or others, also to get a little bit temperature check as where we are at the moment globally because mainly in many cases you are just following your own member state. But now we get a little bit some kind of feeling on why the world goals. It's true. So the exciting part is there are 17 UN sustainable development goals and these voluntary national reviews are when governments of the world decide that they will share on how they are developing and how close they're getting to achieve the 2030 agenda. What were some of the highlights of different countries that may be shared so far this week and what are some of the aspects on the earlier VNRs of Finland that were so innovative that captured the world's imagination? Yeah, actually Finland reported a second time in 2020. That was unfortunately still during the COVID where exactly the HLPF, this high level political forum was organized by virtually. So it was a little bit different on all that, not so good that you really physically meet the colleagues and other people all over the world on there. But even though I think it's really important that the report was made because it really really tells about the political commitment as well, that how exactly the governments and the member states including all the actors from the societies are really making the progress on that. And exactly the really the uniqueness of that report was that we as a civil society we collected our analysis of all those 17 goals and they also have the 169 targets under the goals. So we made our report and analysis and government made their own. Exactly the Finnish civil society report it's part of the official report. So it is quite tough thing I would say and it was totally, there were no changes made by the government. So exactly every commas and everything what we have put to the report it's there like we wrote it. And I think that that tells quite a lot about the trust also in the monks of the Finnish society that exactly our even sometimes critical report it's showcased and tell to the world yes exactly there are different point of view but at the same time exactly there's there were quite a lot of similarities as well. So the analysis made by the let's say there's some certain ministries and the civil society side they were totally in the spot. So the same messages came out and one of those of course is that we all the northern citizens we are consuming absolutely too much. So our footprints is really horrible and that's that's one of the cases where we have a lot to do. No and that's one of the exciting parts about the UN global goals is that it's no longer looking at development by going over a border and looking at something over there but you just can cross a bridge in your own country and that the sustainable development goals are applicable to all countries and that every country has to work hard to make sure these 17 global goals become part of the domestic and foreign policy. Exactly and that's why I think that it's really it's very inspiring as well because it's not something which is happening out of the country but it's something where every human being wherever he or she is living can also contribute and be part of that. So in that way I think that it's really first of all is the only way how we can really save the planet and really living in the meaningful life on our here but it's also brings and connects us all over the world between the human beings, individuals wherever we are we have a lot of commonalities and that's why I think that it's so important that every single person is somehow aware first of all aware and then when you're aware and hopefully you get the interest and you're ready to really deposit and really making your best so that we can really find a good solutions for all of us in this planet. And you came up with some really good points that your report was considered part of the official report shows a certain level of a standard which then allows all other civil society to push their government to say if Finland let civil societies report be considered and included why can't you include because most people don't even have consultations don't meet with civil society don't bring the voice of the people in so yours if they include the report there must be a whole lot more with consultations maybe you could share in the last year how it was prepared in 2020 before COVID and the first one how the government meets with and what are the benefits of those creative consultations where the people get to meet with the government but have really good really sharing truthfully what needs to be done and a real deep analysis but also exploring of the soul of the nation. Yeah, it was really part of the recovery way so exactly the finger was in the coordination role amongst civil society organizations and that was also good for us because we are a majority of all members of working abroad so doing the development project, et cetera so it was also good for us so that exactly we managed to do the same what we are asking the governments to do so getting the internal and external together so that was one element on that but also it was that we were checking with the US statistics and the Finnish statistics as well so in that way exactly the sources of information what we used or what the ministry is used was the same as well and we are of course very grateful that we have very, very good statistic institution in Finland so we have the data comparing for many other countries so it really were helpful but of course we wanted to really get more information so exactly as a part of the report there's also the contribution from the young people there used to be the so-called citizens panel where exactly whoever been a citizen had an opportunity to participate and give some kind of feeling how I'm feeling that Finland is doing so it was the collection of different kind of sources and through the path of the pathway people really felt that okay we've been heard on here and then we have the opportunities to give the contribution on that but it's been really... I would say that the point really is the process because that really allows people to participate and then it's also at the same time it's commit yourself on that because your interest is increasing and then you might be interested to follow that in the future as well and even be hopefully get some kind of inspiration to activate the finding your ways how you can even better way and then different ways to do more, more sustainable ways so I do hope that that could be the example for the other countries as well. When you describe it, it is the process and the process then allows for really a proactive participatory inclusion in public policy and it sort of redefines politics where normally it's just looking at what's good for the next election but by this process of everybody being able to engage and having the same language of each goal it allows you then to really bring a new type of citizen diplomacy and to be able to be involved to shape the domestic and foreign policy as well. Absolutely and I think that it also brings the policies much more closer to the citizens reality because like you said that normally you're just criticizing because I'm not really getting the services from the government but it also gives you a little bit better understanding exactly what's going on there and what exactly are the more in the need that level of the policies and that's why I think that it was also interesting because definitely those sustainable development goals when they were negotiated and when the governments were agreed on that it really varies between the member states in the world because indeed definitely Malian and Finnish are totally different kind of situation so not all the goals or their targets are not so super relevant for each of the country but you need to choose which really matters most for you and some kind of next phase where we are going on in Finland at the moment is that exactly we just finalized during this spring some kind of roadmap from this year now in 2022 by 2030 because the deadline for achieving sustainable development goals is 2030 at the moment and definitely even the Finland has a lot to do and exactly as a part of this analysis again the whole stakeholders together draw the roadmap and that's a little bit different now so we've found out those areas where Finland definitely need to really speed up not trying to really pick every single things because for example one of the targets is the cases of malaria which we don't really have in Finland so in that way it's irrelevant but there are many other ones thinking about the energy system for example that really matters in Finland so exactly we found out six thematic areas which are more like the system level thinking like the energy system or food system and one of those areas around education education, civilization, consumption habits so really thinking the education in the large understanding including the lifelong learning and the informal learning but the point really is that what we need to do from now until 2030 so that we can really boost and really get the goals to be achieved by 2030 and this work is now starting in the second half of this year and it will be really really exciting because again it's not only the government who need to implement that but it's all our actors it's including the business, private sector it's civil society, academics, local authorities, everyone and that's the whole issue on this January 23 implementation that everybody's needed and it really does make sure that we're all speaking the same language because we're all talking about the goals but we can all apply them to our professional lives either at the university or at the business and then also even individual actions looking at SDG 12 on sustainable consumption and practices it's how we live on a daily basis so these SDGs as a framework as you're saying really does allow us to focus and that deadline I think that's an important one that people don't think of enough it's 2030 so next year will be the halfway point but as you brought up it really gets us to consider what more could we do and when you mentioned that aspect of 2020 it reminded me of Hawaii we became the first state to do a voluntary local review and we're similar, we wish we were in the UN but then the positive aspect for our voluntary local review was there was no limit no next group was coming in so we really took three hours which is what we probably should have for a voluntary national review or a voluntary local review and we had everyone share and discuss and then ask each other questions and listen to one another and if that's one thing that the SDGs do they bring everyone to the table and make sure that everyone's included and I think those speeches in the language of leave no one behind and furthest behind first force us to make sure we have a human rights-based approach in what we do and maybe you could share a little bit on how the voluntary local review is also a good model in Finland to be able to have really municipal multilateralism and how then the cities can be catalysts to achieve the 2030 agenda. Yeah exactly and I think that really the point what you mentioned about this is arriving the dialogue because that's exactly super relevant and it's really the way how the people can feel that I'm part of something and I have the opportunities to influence as well. I'm not only the tick the box exercise but it could be really that I can really make the meaningful contribution and secondly exactly no one of us are not really expert of every single topic in the world so we need different kind of knowledge as well and build on that we can really move on and finding the new innovations which we are definitely needed thinking about this environment where we're living where exactly there's a lot of different kind of changes happening and nobody doesn't really know exactly where to go on and how to move how to move on how to find the solution so in that way the dialogue and really some kind of co-creation is so important on that and exactly also in the Finnish case it's really important one that the cities are the smaller the big ones and even the towns they hopefully find even more we only have the five cities so far in Finland who has made the report but I just heard that there are more to come which is great so in somehow there has been the cities has been some kind of co-facilitators for the next city so it's also good that you can really take the some kind of example of course you can copy paste again but you can get inspiration and finding your way to do that because again if the countries are different of course the cities and towns are different as well that there might be some similarities on that but indeed you need to find your way how to go on but there's a lot of things which is really practically thinking about that what other services what the city council for example will offer but how the people can really give the feedback meaningful feedback on that and making those services better there are some cities there are examples about this some kind of budgeting where the citizens can give the proposals where they think that the common budget should be allocated or part of that for example making the more sport places or whatever that kind of thing so I think that is really really great because you can really influence on your environment where you are living and definitely of course the whole energy issue is really in a turbulence situation all over the world at the moment so that's really is the place where we definitely need to find a different kind of and hopefully renewable sources how hard to really make it happen but you know in a better way and it's true it kind of brings together the human rights-based approach with the global goals and bringing the global goals to the ground and that example uses really a participatory budget approach so normally budgets are passed and people can never mention a line but this approach that you're sharing about what's going on in Finland and other places with their voluntary local reviews is people actually can have a say and actually shape their local municipal laws but more importantly where the funds are going and what's prioritized and then be able to then feel that their rights are actually being respected and protected and even maybe fulfilled in this new process Exactly and I think that this is really important one because it's also a little bit motivation for paying taxes and I'm feeling somehow that okay I know why I'm paying my taxes and it's good for all of us it's part of the good governance and rule of law and these kind of things which again is really the foundation for the implementation of the human rights so in that way I think that the some kind of theoretical discussions comes much more real and it's really concrete and you can really understand that okay what does it really mean in practice in my life and my point of view and when you shared the vast experience you've had with the global goals you were there to be able to create them to work on the negotiations and it might not seem revolutionary for many but to think we came from the UN Millennium Development Goals with only eight and trying to have everything to agreement in 2015 to have 17 global goals no poverty, zero hunger, good health well-being quality education, gender justice all those important ones clean water and sanitation we really have economic social cultural rights we have fair economy we have climate action life below land life above we have SDG 16 with this peace justice and strong institutions and then 17 which you've really been able to share a lot about with partnerships it is a whole new roadmap as you shared earlier that provides the blueprints for a better society and that's one of the exciting aspects of what your group works on how was it to be able to shape global policy and negotiate to get all 17 when we know many countries didn't want a lot of those and I think it's still and that again the countries varies quite a lot on that because definitely again circumstances are so different and I have a little bit feeling at the moment that because there has been so many crises like the COVID, the climate crisis there's more wars and conflicts in the world nowadays than exactly biggest number after 1945 we have the biggest number of the conflicts in the world at the moment so exactly the other crisis going on almost every corner of the world and that definitely really makes the impact on the people's life and that is shaking the whole situation and somehow there is a little bit feeling that we are moving a bit back to the millennium development goals because there are really huge need and we're thinking about the progress what was on the good line before let's say the COVID they were for example this goal number one the poverty it was going up so we were really getting less and less poverty but now unfortunately during the COVID exactly during that time we have went back 20 years which is really bad news and it really really means that we need to make extra efforts so that people stay alive so really we're starting from that kind of fundamental issue on there and then the similar what is happening at the moment with the food crisis where there's really really horrible situations in many places in the world thanks for the speed climate change effort as well so we have this fundamental crisis happening at the world and definitely we need to have the common global responsibility as well to help the people who are in the most vulnerable situations but at the same time we need to really find the new ways how we are making so-called transformation happening so that exactly using the technology using the innovations using the resources we have more money in the world than ever but it needs to be used in the right way and really for the good purpose not for the military for example but it goes quite heavily at the moment but really using that in that way that exactly no one is not left behind and then we really respect the nature and the environment and trying to find the solutions which really make sure that exactly both the nature and the human beings can live together in harmony in this planet but I think that we need to really have quick solutions as well because definitely of course all the alarms are ringing there and I think we definitely need to really find the solutions which sustain which are not going back but it is taking all of us on board and moving in the right direction in a sustainable way and when you talked about it really goes back to the UN Charter that collective responsibility because absolutely and of World War II it was if something bad is happening to your neighbor we all need to step up because it might not seem like it'll affect you but it'll ripple and so all these aspects of what's happening are now all showing the wisdom that was there in the UN Charter and now really it's an amendment the 2030 Gen is an amendment to that UN Charter to then look at some of the more modern challenges but to keep that same sense of solidarity that spirit of caring for one another and it's not charity but it's truly caring and coming together because what impacts one impacts us all it's sort of that Ubuntu philosophy exactly we are so interlinked all the time so no one is not anymore alone in the planet so we are the part of the several systems at the same time and there are so many languages between the different both the individuals but also the topics and products and whatever we are doing everything is so interlinked at the moment and that's why I think that really matters that what is happening happening in Honolulu it really affects in Helsinki as well it's true I remember us talking Helsinki, Honolulu people are like how is that connected but we have indigenous peoples we also are looking at climate or what impacts your climate might be different but it's the same aspect to show how our lives are really one and that's the exciting part is with these SDGs it allows us to then say what can we do together how can our actions in Hawaii help what could we do together to really impact the global arena because being here and seeing thousands of people coming from all over the world it's kind of a full schedule and you maybe sort of walk us through I know at eight o'clock you got major groups meetings and then there's another meeting and then there's another meeting so what's it like to be a citizen diplomat and what's it like to be part of this high-level political forum with the over four dozen voluntary national reviews what are some of those aspects maybe to share with us what it's like to what the schedule is I think that is first of all it's absolutely great to see the people I think that we are all everyone of us we have lacked on that that we are only in the zooms or somewhere else so it's really great to see the real people and then really talking and then because I was just talking with somebody that exactly in a half an hour discusses what we had face to face we were much more creative and we managed to solve so many issues immediately so it's much more effective as well and definitely this is also the opportunity that we are learning from each other because that is the whole point that why we come together is that we are learning and we're trying to find out about the common solutions again not copy pasting but at least the idea and then finding the ways how we can really really move on but I think that is definitely a worth of using around the clock time together when we finally can really meet and that's exactly as part of the coordination as well because the one of the really the beauty of this high level political forum around gender 2030 is that is quite unique structure in the UN system as well because not very often in the UN meetings exactly all the stakeholders are under the same roof and then really meeting people because in many cases they are in separate rooms so the member states governments are talking to each other then the civil society is talking to each other but there's no conversation or dialogue going on and that's really I think that it's really witnessing and then walk the talk of the agenda 2030 the philosophy because they are in this whole idea of the agenda 2030 is there a fundamentally five important piece which is people, planet prosperity, partnership and what is the now the fifth P I forget it now prosperity prosperity yeah and I think that that's really tells quite a lot on that because you need to think about all these aspects at the same time and that is the whole logic that it's not only the technical exercise that we are following the indicators under these goals and targets and just tick the box if it's done or not but it's also about this thinking all these aspects at the same time and that I think that that that happens quite well of course you can always do that better but I think that in principle there's a try to implement that also on this waste of organizing the work under these two weeks events and meetings what we're having so there are the opportunities for different stakeholders to have the dialogue and trying together of course there are the the criticism coming and they are aware of the civil society or somebody else is challenging the governments on there but it's part of this game it's part of this dialogue what we're trying to move on collectively not in that way that only only governments are in charge of the implementation definitely they have the very important role on there but also the other actors can really do a lot or not that but I think that is needed that there's some kind of mini world is coming together and then we have a little bit like the laboratory where we are testing the principles in practice it's true and then we are one year away from the sustainable developmental goals summit what would you say should be aspiration of civil society to come together for the SDG summit what's some things we have to include I think that the really now like I mentioned already about this this catastrophic situations where we have really went back on the goals at the moment I think that there has to be be the more ways and opportunities to really find the solutions which really get us back to the track so it's really really important that that we are not only going with those who has the good opportunities for living in this planet but really taking this that nobody is not really left behind so that's really is a very very important one that the most fragile and vulnerable human beings are really taking account on that so that's really is the big worry coming from from the civil society side of course the other one is that unfortunately all the statistics shows that exactly there's a really increasing shrinking space for civil society so there's less and less the member states in the world who has so has a really free space for citizens to be heard and participate and criticize and discuss and be active on that and that's really really worrying and covid definitely make the boost for that so there's still even if the the covid is not anymore so so horrible situation still the rules are there which means that exactly there's less and less opportunities for people to really participate and act on that way so unfortunately this trend is not very good one at the moment and I I think definitely this is one of the worry coming coming from the civil society side and for example today we hear they heard some stories from the Belarus and Russian civil society who also tell of course we know that but this really really good that they were heard and they had they had opportunities to say this aloud as well no it's true that all of the human rights are really brought out and it's great to hear multiple countries and civil society using the human rights lens in this work in this giant laboratory thank you so much for sharing from the Arctic also talking about what's going on with Fingo and how you're able to then share that model with others so that we can build the global movement for justice equality and equity for all thank you for joining us thank you Joshua thanks a lot thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii if you like what we do 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