 Live from Orlando, Florida, it's theCUBE, covering Cisco Live 2018, brought to you by Cisco, NetApp, and theCUBE's ecosystem partners. Hey, welcome back everyone. We're here live theCUBE in Orlando, Florida for Cisco Live 2018. I'm John Furrier, the co-host of theCUBE with Stu Miniman. It's our third day of three days of wall-to-wall coverage. Our next two guests are from NetApp, Russell Fishman, Director of Product Management and Keith Bart, Director of Product Management. Both directors of product management. One was the former CEO of Immersive, now with NetApp for a few years. Guys, great to see you. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. Thanks for having us. Thanks for having us. We saw you guys in Barcelona. Obviously the NetApp story just keeps on getting better. Obviously you have core customer base. Cisco's going under transformation. You guys have been transforming ever since I started seeing NetApp arrive on the scene in the 90s. Every year there's always a new innovation. But now more than ever, you're hearing even Cisco. Bellwether in the routing networking business, putting up old-way network, hey there's a firewall, there's some devices in there. To a completely new, obviously cloud-native, modern error, really things are changing. So what's your reaction to that? Obviously you guys are part of that story. You have a relationship with Cisco. What's your reaction to that and talk about your relationship with Cisco? So we obviously have a huge relationship with Cisco and most folks will know about Flexpots. I think that's probably the most famous way that we collaborate with these guys. And we just came off the back of an amazing year. Five straight quarters of double-digit year-on-year growth, killing it in the market. Obviously we have to brag a little bit, right? Come on. It's a cue, come on. It's a cue, we've got to be a little bit excited about it. So we're really excited about that. And it just really talks to the strength of the relationship, right? So there's a very strong relationship there. And it's been there with Flexpod for eight years. And there's been a lot of transformations, exactly to your point, John, a lot of transformation during that time. A lot of focus on the cloud. So one of the questions I always get asked is, why is converged infrastructure still relevant in the cloud-first world? And it's not an obvious answer. Now, clearly our customers think that it is. And so do our partners, right? But it's not obvious why that is. I mean, NetApp has gone through, you talked about transformation, NetApp has gone through this massive transformation, huge focus on clouds. I mean, we have these, you know, cloud-first, cloud-native, focused around our data management platforms. We talk about a concept called the data fabric. I don't know if you've heard of the data fabric before. And the data fabric really talks to how our vision for how enterprises want to manage that new digital currency that is data across all the silos that they want to leverage, right? And so, yeah, it's, we've been able to bring some of that goodness into FlexBot. And that's why we're still relevant now. So, yeah. So Keith, I think back to when converged infrastructure was built is about simplification. We were going to take all these boxes and put it down to, you know, A box. And that was the new unit of measurement. Well, you know, Russell was just talking about we've got multi-cloud. When I think of NetApp now, there's always been a software company, but now it's software in that multi-cloud world. Help connect the dots for us as to, you know, management of converged infrastructure into that whole multi-cloud story. Yeah, we were very privileged to be acquired by NetApp last March. And my company, Immersive, a lot of us came actually out of Cisco. So I was one of the original FlexBot architects from Cisco and had the privilege of helping to build the compute, the network, the storage that we brought into FlexPod. And a lot of our customers and our resellers kept on saying, how do we know we put it together properly? How are we following the best practices from the CVDs, from the MVAs, from the TRs? And so we took those rules and those analytics and we put them into a platform, into a SaaS based platform. And we were able to analyze that coming from our customers FlexPods from within their deployments, from within their, you know, multi-data centers and bring that into our service, run those analytics, prove those best practices, show the deficiencies, get our resellers out there to help our customers because, you know, FlexPod is a meet and the channel play and we relied heavily on our resellers to make it a success. What was the driver for that product? When you started that company, I mean, that happened. What was the main motivation behind that? Was it analytics? Was it insight? What were some of the things that you guys were building in? Was it operational data? The real reason was people kept on asking, how do I know, because it's a reference architecture and not a product, how do I know I did it right? Because it's really important. We're going to run our key business applications on this platform, right? My SAP, my Oracle, my, you know, SQL, my SharePoint, you know, my Outlook, right? I got to make sure this stuff is really going to work properly and it's going to grow and scale with the business. So I need to make sure that those redundant links are there. I need to make sure when I do a VMware upgrade or a Microsoft upgrade that the firmware is in alignment with the best practice in the interoperability matrix. So we wanted to make that as easy as possible so that from a single dashboard, you can see all of those things, you can diagnose it quickly, you can get those email alerts and notifications. And because you end up with disparate operation teams, right, the server team, the network team, the storage team, the hypervisor team, sometimes they don't always talk effectively with each other and from one single dashboard, we're now able to show everybody where things are today. And then one of my favorites, when there is a problem, you know, you call either services or support and you say, hey, it's not working. And they say, well, what did you change? And when you say, well, I didn't change anything, right? We have that historical. The finger pointing kicks in. It was his fault. Yeah, we have the historical snapshot and trending so we can go back and look at where things were and do a comparison to where they are today. And it allows us to have a much faster meantime to resolution. And what do you guys call that product now within Cisco? What's it? It's now called Converge Systems Advisor at NetApp. Awesome. So what's next for Converge or so? Obviously people with cloud growth, we're seeing the on-premise, Wikibon has reported the true private cloud numbers basically saying, there's a lot of on-premise activity going on, it's going to look like clouds, it's going to operate like clouds. So they need to have that. So there's migration going on, but it's not a lift and shift to cloud. It's going to be, obviously, the hybrid cloud and multi-cloud. So cloud, folks still buy hardware too. You got to still run stuff. Networks aren't going away, storage isn't going away. So what's next for the Converge infrastructure play with FlexPod? How do you guys manage that roadmap? So we just announced some things coming into jointly with Cisco coming into Cisco Live and one of those things that we announced was something called Managed Private Cloud on FlexPod. Well, actually no, FlexPod Managed Private Cloud, sorry, I switch it around. So, and FlexPod Managed Private Cloud it really talks to exactly what you're talking about, John, which is that what we find, cloud has fundamentally changed customers' expectations of what they want on-prem. They recognize they need on-prem, we live in a hybrid world. Those of us that've been in the industry long enough and have a couple of gray hairs know that there are very few transitions that are really absolute in the business, right? A lot of people pronounce that it's going to be this well that way and the reality is it's something in between. And that's fine because, you know, cloud is just another tool in the toolbox and you don't want to hit every nail with the same hammer you want to find the right tool for the right job. And so what we've done is we've taken some of that cloud goodness, which really means, you know, not having to worry about the underlying infrastructure, right, worrying about the applications, being more application-focused, more business-value-focused, more line-of-business-focused and being able to deliver that in a way that people can consume it on-premise. So it really feels like a flexible, delivered like a cloud, but from a management and day-to-day perspective, you don't have to do it. So it's flexible. It's flexible, but you know, it's done for you. I mean, so it's your little piece of cloud sitting on-prem and you don't have to manage it or run it day-to-day. Let's talk about what you just said about the whole transformation. People say a certain way, basically you're kind of saying a lot of press and a lot of analysts say, oh, you got to do this digital transformation. Customers will take a pragmatic approach, but you guys at Net have been talking for a long time, have been following it, non-disruptive operations. So what you're seeing in the cloud, if people will want to take those first three steps, they don't want to have to overhaul anything. Containers have proved to be a great resource there. Kubernetes is showing a great way to have life cycle managed on the app side and infrastructure. How does your customers and Cisco customers maintain that non-disruptive operational playbook because Cisco guys are going to start changing, moving up the stack too. It doesn't mean storage is going to go away, but they don't want to disrupt anything. Your thoughts. And it doesn't mean any of it goes away. That's the funny thing. Yeah, we talk about where we want to focus, but it's as much about not having to worry about the things that we have to worry about that are just there in the future, right? So it's kind of like if you went back 200 years, going to get fresh water was a big hassle. Now it isn't, it's delivered to you, right? I mean, I know it sounds like a crazy analogy, but the reality is that we shouldn't have to worry about the basics of on-premise private cloud. It should just be automatic. It should be simple to execute, simple to manage, simple to order, simple to deploy, and then you focus on the value. So that's really where we, that's what we've been really focused on. Yeah, Keith, when I listened to my friends in the networking space, you know, management's still a challenge. The punchline is usually, they hear single pane of glass and they said, that's spelled P-A-I-N. Yeah, I heard that one too. So talk a little bit about how your solutions tie into some of the broader tools out there. Well, you know, we first looked at the compute layer and said, because of the extensibility of UCS manager and the API integration, we're able to take advantage of that and be able to pull that data out. NXOS, right, we're able to do that exact same thing. And the background that we had at Cisco and knowing those products really well, we were able to gather all the specific data we need to look at those best practices. And you know, it's a complex architecture, but it's a very elegant architecture. Because of the high availability it can provide the performance of the non-disruptive operations that you're bringing up, John. You know, we want to make sure that we're able to keep those things in line. So as we bring our next release of CSA out, we're going to be adding Enterprise Fiber Channel, so the new MDS switches, we're going to be bringing our relationship with VMware and our engine to be able to ingest the configuration of VMware in. We're also bringing back our partner-centric reseller portal. So when a customer is running Converge Systems Advisor, they can share it to their reseller and the reseller's going to be able to provide managed services, support services, and professional services to expand, to repair, to augment those existing flex pods in their customer's environment. So really excited to be able to bring that solution back to our reseller. What's that going to do? What's the impact of that? Because I almost imagine that's going to enable them to want to be tightly integrated but also get data for their customers. What do you guys see as the value for the partners to take advantage of that? Well, I just met with a partner at our booth just a few moments ago and walked them through the solution. They had never seen it before. It takes a reseller a week or even multiple weeks depending on the size of the flex pod to actually go through the configuration of the servers, the network, the storage, the hypervisors and correlate that into a deliverable to their customer. We can do that in sub 10 minutes, sub 15 minutes. So faster time to the customer value? Faster time to customer value, faster time to resolution if there is a problem. And then, again, they're running their key business applications on this platform. We've been doing it for eight years. We want to continue to expand upon the value that Flexpod can offer. Well, I wanted to add just a couple of things to what you were saying. So we talked about Flexpod really being a channel play. So that's important to us in product management, not so important to our customers. What it really means to our customers is that they tend to have a very close relationship with their partners. Their partners are the ones that are really enabling Flexpod for them. What we're doing with Converged Systems Advisor is we are creating such a close relationship at a technical level, technology level between the customer and the partner, but the partner's there to help them on a daily basis. Where there is a problem, it's almost like the telematics in your car, right? All the cars now, they're phoning back home. They're telling you where there's something wrong. You get this letter or an email. You need a service. This is exactly what we're achieving with Converged Systems Advisor. When you call support, what don't you want to hear? What's your model number? What's your serial number? What's your contract ID? Wouldn't it be great if everybody's singing off the same sheet of music? Well, yeah, you bring a great point there. There was so much discussion. Well, Converged Infrastructure or Public Cloud, those are going to be really simple and they're going to be homogeneous and they're all going to be great. But yeah, you're smiling and laughing because the reality is you're never going to find two customers that have the same environment no matter what you're talking about. So I need tooling, I need the data and the analytics to help get through that. Right, I shouldn't have to spend half an hour on level one support. I shouldn't have to go through multiple forms at the same time. And you're right, Stuart. That's always been a mantra for Flexpod since the word. We don't get to an $11 billion install base unless you're doing something right. And the reason the word flex is in there and it's a dichotomy whenever you go into these sorts of discussions, do you make it really fixed? Which is almost like, I call it like a straight jacket. But you know what you get, right? Or do you make it flexible? And the flexibility really addresses the business need as opposed to the technology needs. So the product guys love it when it's fixed. The customers love it when it's flexible. You're talking about basically changes. You want changes to be rolling with the technology rolling with the changes. Not be stuck in the straight jacket or we also say tailor made soup. But things change, you want to fashion changes. So this is a real big issue and you talk about support. I think the ideal outcome is not to even call support. With analytics and push notifications and AI, you can almost see what DevNet's doing here around how developers are getting involved with DevOps and network DevOps. Coders can come in and use the analytics if tightly integrated in so that you get the notification or they know exactly your environment. Is that, how far along are you guys on that path? Because analytics play a big role. You've got the command center there or the conversational advisor. It implies advising, resolution, prescription. What's the vision? So Immersive was a Cisco solution partner at the very beginning. So we were a part of this group right behind us. And it was exciting to be a part of that, to attend Cisco Live and be a part of DevNet. And we expanded upon, as you mentioned, the API integrations of all these platforms and when cluster data on tap came out for NetApp, we did the exact same thing. So we get integrated with NetApp and very easily able to bring all that data in. Now, massaging that data is the hard part, right? Understanding what is noise and what is the real goodness. And so you have to find those best practices, look at the hard work that our teams have done around validated designs between Cisco and NetApp and look at the best practices that come from those particular pieces of hardware. And then once that intelligence is built, correlating that in the cloud service is really where the magic happens. So our teams are back there talking with the network experts, the storage experts, the compute networks, the virtualization experts. And so when we have that data, now you can decision here, right? You can start advising your resellers. So we bring up the rules dashboard and then we do have alerting that we can send to ticketing systems to, you know, the remedies, the service now is to be able to do this. It's interesting, I'd love to get the product perspective on this and across the bigger picture because the trend we're seeing certainly on theCUBE over the past few years and most recently this year is the move from device hardware to system. So the systems approach really becomes more of a holistic view where you're looking at the holistic view of multiple things happening. It's not just this is the box, here's where the rack is, you know, command line interface. You guys taking that same approach, can you just add some color on NetApp's vision on looking at holistically, because that really, software shines. You're talking- No, no, and that's absolutely. So we have always seen FlexPod as we call it converged system, right? And for that exact reason. So what CSA is able to do is to look at anything that happens within that converged system in the context of the overall system. And that really is the key, right? When you understand things in context, it means so much more. Just think about when you listen to someone talk, a word taken out of context means nothing, right? So when we listen to that infrastructure, what it tells us is understood in context. And what it will ultimately do, I think you were kind of hinting at this, John, you know, the vision here is that there will be self-healing infrastructures, self-healing converged systems, just like the cloud, right? So we are continuously monitoring the configuration, the availability, and other aspects of your converged system. And we are able to take action to make sure it stays on the rails. We saw you guys at the RSA event, you guys had a small little party we went to and we were kind of riffing, having fun with some of the NetApp folks. And you know, the big trend in cloud is serverless. So the joke was, is there a storage list solution coming? I mean, to your point about this, if you think about it, it's just stored somewhere. I mean, this is kind of a joke, but it's also kind of nuanced. This is elastic. No, no, it's absolutely true. If you look at NetApp strategy, if you look at our cloud strategy, we're the first third-party branded services, part of the Azure core services. We're not in the marketplace. We're actually part of Azure core. And it's NetApp cloud volumes for Azure. And a customer doesn't know what's going on behind the scenes, but let's be clear, we're talking about software-defined storage here, right? And cloudified too as well. I mean, talking about cloud operations. See, look, at the end of the day, you know, for us, our intellectual property is not really tied to hardware. We obviously use that as a way to get our intellectual property in the hands of our customers, but it's, we're not tied to it. You guys made a good bet on cloud. I remember talking before, Korean took over. You guys were kicking the tires on Amazon years ago. Yes, yes, yes, that's right. So it's not like Johnny come lately to the cloud. You guys have been deep and again as a core. Well, at the end of the segment, I want us to get your thoughts because you guys are here at Cisco Live. What should the audience understand that couldn't make it out here is the top story at Cisco Live. And what is your role with Cisco here? What's the big story, top line, high order bit, NetApp, Cisco story? So I'll go first and I'll let my friend here go second. So look, you know, we were really excited coming into Cisco Live, right? You know, we had this pretty big announcement last week. There were a few different aspects to it, but I'll talk about two of them. A new focus between Cisco and NetApp on verticals around FlexPod. And what that really means is that we're focused on very specific verticals, including healthcare, but there'll be others that come down the line. We announced a new solution based on Epic, EHR. We announced some lead customers, including the Mercy Technology Services, which is part of the Mercy Hospital Group. And so that was super exciting. I think what it does is it just demonstrates that our focus is on the outcomes as opposed to the actual infrastructure. The infrastructure is the way to deliver that. So we're very excited about that with Cisco. The second thing that we announced was I said that mentioned this managed private cloud. We actually announced it with four of our major joint partners, dimension data, ProAct, Microland, and oh my Lord, E-plus. Yes, of course. And that was super exciting as well. And you know, what it does is it captures the imagination. And it's always very fun when you're sitting and standing at a booth and people say, oh, you know, I've known FlexPod. I've seen you guys around, but you know, there's always something new to talk about. The relevance is more. Absolutely. Keith, what wave is NetApp riding right now? If you look at the Cisco action going on, what they're going through, what should people know about the big wave that you guys are taking advantage of right now? I think the big wave has absolutely got to be what we're doing with the hyperscalers, right? I mean, we by far have taken the industry, I think by storm, when you think about what we've done with Microsoft, what we're doing with Google, you know, sorry. And Amazon. And Amazon, thank you. And yeah, just small hyperscalers, right? And it's amazing what we can do with cloud on tap across those vendors. And when we look at what our customers have done with FlexPod and the relationship with Cisco and NetApp, and our ability to work together to help customers get their data from their core data centers to cloud, back to their customers. And for us to be able to use analytics the way we do on FlexPod, I think there's a real opportunity. And riding the scale wave too, is scaling is huge. Everyone's talking about large scale, talking about hyperscalers, that is the largest scale you can see. And our ability to control where the data lives, right? Because you want to be able to hold control of your data and being able to use familiar tools like what you're already using in your own data center and in your own converged infrastructures. Being able to use that on tap operating system, be able to control that experience is going to be very important. Guys, thanks for coming in for the NetApp update. Great news, great alignment with Cisco. It's a large scale world and certainly the world's changing. Storage is going to be a critical part of its server, storage, infrastructure, cloud operations on premise and in the clouds. Thank you, bringing you live coverage. I'm John Furrier, Stu Miniman. Stay with us for more day three of three days of coverage here in Orlando, Florida, for Cisco Live. We'll be right back.