 Probably the best word to sum all this up would be legacy, right? So, so when you're trying to avoid that regs to riches to regs scenario, you know, you were asking about cell it's like if you intentionally and Systematically create legacy create a family playbook look at what a lot of these great families that actually do become More and more successful and more and more wealthy from generation to generation are doing and you replicate that Then I think that's you avoid that scenario boom. We're back. It's mine pump time All right, here is the giveaway for today's episode maps power lift We're gonna give away maps power lift to one of you viewers Here's how you can win leave a comment below in the first 24 hours that we drop this episode Subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications do all those things if we like your comment We will notify you and you have free access to maps power lift also We got a sale going on right now the starter bundle is 50% off That's maps anabolic maps prime and the intuitive nutrition guide. We also have maps split 50% off That's a bodybuilder style high volume workout. Okay, so they're both 50% off If you're interested go to maps fitness products calm and then use the code may special for that discount All right, here comes a show. I remember when you first started getting them doing the podcast and I was like dude It's so cool to see them like that to me as a father That'd be like one of the coolest dreams is to eat one or two things I feel like because these are like two big passions of me I love sports so if my son Gravitates towards sports would be very cool to be a part of that or Business stuff. I just love building business and I think yeah watching them do that and how their minds work and everything like that It's like in so have you have used made the connections of like Seeing how their minds work when it comes to business and how how parallel they are with yours or how different are they they're different because So so what I have focused on with them is Not making all the mistakes that I made meaning I'm not having them take like marketing classes or Learn how to put up their WordPress posts or do any post editing on their audio or anything like that I just tell them just just crush the one thing that you're good at in this case for a podcast like Cooking and making the recipes and interviewing the chefs and being like the face and the intellect behind the product And then have other people do all the rest of the stuff and I waste your time learning it. Oh, wow Yeah, and so so they really they they aren't They're like burdened with all the behind-the-scenes stuff because I've just told it from the get go pay somebody else to do that stuff Because you could learn it but at the end of the day you're gonna be paying somebody to do it anyways Do you remember when you learn that lesson? Oh way too long into the get like I will because I was a cheapskate You know operating with the spirit of scarcity I didn't hire my first virtual assistant until I was like, you know eight years into the business and I would I coded all my own PHP scripts for my newsletter and I did all my own affiliate marketing and You know all my own web design and all my own editing and all my own social media for a long time Which is it's kind of good to learn that stuff Mm-hmm probably the top reason being you know if you're getting screwed by somebody Charge me $60,000 And so, you know, I think that the the cons outweigh the pros though of Knowing and learning and spending time doing it yourself versus just sticking to your craft sticking to your art and finding somebody else to do The rest well to the modern economy is so it's so important to be so good at one Specific thing and not do lots of different things. So it takes away from yeah, yeah I mean, I'm not against being a Renaissance person. I think that's I think it's admirable You know, I think it's it's laudable to be able to fix your car and fix your bicycle and you know Mow your lawn and and all those things, but I think that when it comes to business Getting yeah, getting bogged down and in the in the you can't scale that way Yeah, you can't scale and I don't consider that I'll consider that being a Renaissance person as much as I consider that maybe kind of being stupid or being a micromanager being cheap Yeah, right cuz cuz I think a Renaissance person It's more like somebody who's who's out there learning how to the passion for the engaging culture how to survive How to fix but yeah when it comes to the business aspects, I just feel like you know I don't feel like knowing how to do your PPC ad buys is necessarily the best way to become well They have a great teacher because you have experience in that that's why I you know I advocate a lot for mentorship, you know, you can take classes and courses or You could go do a free internship or for somebody that is doing a great job and learn from them who have the experience You'll learn all this you'll cut through all the mistakes and stuff that you'll make on your own if you don't do that Yeah, I mean well, that's what that's how I've structured their entire education It's all experiential based learning with very little time spent in books or or not necessarily not in classes But even the classes are like live hands-on. Yeah type of type of courses. Yeah, now your boys are 14, right? Yeah, so how is this because okay, so I have a 16 year old. I have a 12 year old So she's gonna go she's almost the teenager boy. Do I see the difference in having? kids versus teenagers and just attitude and complexity of right now Motion and just conversations like how's that how's that been for you? You know, I haven't noticed a huge change I mean I was saying like it's interesting because one of them is going through puberty right now and the other one Isn't and so I feel like you know because like we're doing we're doing sex ed Which is was really interesting because I'm I'm taking them through all the birds and the bees and everything because I'd rather them Learn all this from me than from YouTube or or Google or you know, they're they're you know Friend or it's I'm sleep over something like that So so I'm taking them through all of that and it's just it's super interesting So I have all these books that I'm bringing them through and dad's old anatomy textbooks And we're talking about everything from porn and relationships to masturbation the changes in girls bodies to changes in guys bodies and just that you know soup to nuts and It is interesting. Yeah, cuz cuz you know one of them is is kind of ahead of the other Developmentally, that's weird because they're twins, right? What do you with why how is that? I don't know is that I honestly don't know I mean, it might have been you know the diet that one eight versus you know some piece of meat The other one didn't need I don't I have no clue, but I don't think it's that uncommon for kids to go through at different times The yeah, so so like you know during during sex that I was like so have I have have you guys had an erection yet? Yeah, you know just asking all these all these personal questions to them and and river my son who's older But hasn't got through puberty yet. He just looks at me like totally confused. No clue. I'm talking about and Taren's like Oh, yeah, I want to ride my bike Slide down the banister and so he's got all these Rivers kind of sideways glancing at him Waiting for his turn Yeah, yeah, you know and Taren you can see you can smell him a little bit He's got a little bit of the face acne and but they're you know, they're they're um They're doing great. I mean that you even like the the teen beauty thing I had the guy from from Ali Torah that skin care company He came up and spent a day at her house just shooting videos with them and teach them how to do like clay masks and And all the things that I wish I don't know when I was a kid for you know Not getting zits and acne and eczema and and all those embarrassing teenage skin issues The last time we talked you were talking about the the way you were unschooling them And did you did you come across anything that was challenging like obviously? I've heard you talk about all the positive things and it sounds like a lot of good things have happened from that Anything that was a real challenge of going going that approach. I Think the challenge with unschooling is The the nature of it is that it's unstructured There's not really a plan. There's not a curriculum like when I was homeschooled We had like your math curriculum and your reading curriculum It was basically like the equivalent of a traditional schooling setup But at home gather around the kitchen table or on the living room floor or whatever But it was just always you knew when you woke up like what was going on Right, I'm gonna do this course for math and then we go through this chapter for the reading And then I've got this essay from this writing course, etc, etc with unschooling You know the the premise behind unschooling is you're constantly taking the temperature of what it is that a child is Interested in you know whether you know for for them, you know, if I could name a few things it'd be like glassblowing watercolor piano guitar jiu-jitsu Spanish cooking, you know, there's there's like this this list of things They just really enjoy to do and are super interested in so what does that look like you wake up in the morning and you go Yeah, so so every time a new interest arises. So so we have a weekly meeting okay with my sons my wife me a Lady who helps us to like schedule everything almost like like a kind of get a virtual assistant for scheduling an organization and everything And then kind of like a local boots on the ground person who helps us with scheduling Trips to the museum and driving them places and classes and things like that and then them and so we're all on this call together And we're reviewing their week We're reviewing anything new that it is that they're interested in that is that has sparked their passion recently How it is that the previous week went but then based on that what we do is we'll create blocks of Schooling where they'll be like a six-week block. That's focused on Like the recent block that just finished up was really heavy on investing in finances It was really heavy on creative writing because they're both working on some fiction stuff right now heavy on arts and then they're they're podcast and And and we we piece all this together and then surround them with books with tutors with classes with activities with local excursions that basically are all based around those passions But it's very loosey-goosey because you can't just like go online and find some set done for you curriculum There's like one book that's pretty good called unschooling to university that kind of like lays out what a what? Approximately, you know unschooling program might look like from K through 12 and then on to college And it does talk about some little things that are important like record keeping You know every single day at the end of the day My sons have a journal of everything that they've done for that day that they scan and Electronically send to the person who keeps all the records online That would then allow them to be able to show to the Washington State School District What is still a kind of early than that right exactly or if a university ever wants to see a transcript of what they've actually done If they decide they want to go to university all that's log So we do a lot of record keeping but yeah, I think back back to your question What's hard about it is you kind of don't like at the back of your mind. There's always, you know At least for me personally, I'm always wondering. Well, are they are they ahead? Are they behind? Are they are they learning the things that they should be learning? Like am I not teaching them enough about math or science or if they haven't expressed an interest in chemistry Do I force that on them because I know it's going to be good for me no later on or do I wait till I express interest in it Have they done any like the state testing or examinations if you to just see no like where that is not yet Not yet, but but but I mean they They're they're smart. They're extremely happy. They're really balanced I mean the home is a very pleasant place to be because they're just engaged in what it is They love to do there's always two half days each week where they can just wake up in the morning Do whatever they want whether it's free time for art or free time for being outside nature go outside to build A fort or whatever so we squeeze goes a lot of like free Unstructured free creative playtime. I think that's really important What do you see? Okay, since you do that and and you already have this very kind of unstructured curriculum for them What do you what do they tend to gravitate towards during their free time? Do they tend to gravitate towards the things that there's already kind of school related or like what do they do? 90% of the time it's art. There's they're super into art. They they paint they do comic books. They do murals They do They do comics. They're writing a cookbook right now It's like a graphic novel meets cookbook where all of the recipes are actual comics They're amazing artists. They're my my wife jessa. She's an amazing artist. I grew up Super into art watercolor painting, you know, I would I would you know enter into like art competitions and put my paintings in the fair And I kind of got out of painting but both mama and I come from very artistic creative backgrounds Mostly musically and artistically so both of our sons are really into that as well Yeah, I had a friend who who did this with their kid and I would ask because I had no idea This even existed back then and I asked them Well, how do you teach math? Like because all the stuff you listed wasn't math and she said well He's really into cars. So when we talk about the engines we talk about ratios and You know how you figure horsepower over torque and like you talked about jujitsu you could talk about Leverage and a fulcrum and how that increases leverage on this point versus that point chemistry you could talk about cooking Yeah, that's a lot of ways you could do that Is you can be very creative So even like washington state has 12 key core subjects that a child must Demonstrate proficiency and not to be considered like a like a truant You know and if you don't want a social worker winding up at your door as you're submitting these records You want you want to show demonstrate that they've that they've taken certain certain courses So if you think about it like what you were alluding to sal like like you know making risotto in the kitchen could be chemistry It could be math totally because of the measurements It could even be if there's like a like an ethnic twist to it some type of social studies or language studies I mean like making a meal can satisfy like six of those curricular building a tree for it can be math It's also real world application physical education. Yeah, but it's a real world application This back to what I was talking about earlier You know the the tricky part is that unschooling because you don't have a set of curricula It's difficult especially for a guy like me I'm one of those guys who loves to see the plan like what's the plan? What's the schedule? You know has it all laid out whereas it's a little bit more loosey-goosey when you're unschooling You kind of just like wake up and you know ask your children what it is They're interested in then just send them out into the world. I mean does it take a lot of Yeah, does it take a lot of thinking for you with it? Okay, let's say they decide. Okay, we're going to make risotto tonight And Do you decide like okay? Well, then we are we're going to learn chemistry We're going to do math or do you maybe pick one subject that we're going to focus on for that one? No, we we just do it and then what what actually happens to be honest with you is We'll do an activity and then they'll journal it They'll write it all down and then they'll send it off to her name is Darcy this gal who I hired a few years ago When we first started this who's you know You know does a lot of the scheduling and the the spreadsheet layouts of what the curriculum block might look like She then takes their records and says okay These are the subjects that that fit in terms of of what that activity actually satisfied You know, so so I don't do a lot of she she does all that But you know one of the biggest critiques that kids will say and I remember saying this too is Where am I going to use this like we're yeah, and so with something like that You're actually seeing it work in the real world Yeah, that question never comes up because they they're very rarely learning something that they're not already interested in or that They're not already engaged in in the first place I mean they even have like a a math and finances instructor because a lot of the stuff is tutor based Like a math and finances instructor comes over to the house a couple of times a week Spanish instructor comes over, you know, they they meet with a private jiu-jitsu instructor Like they've got a lot of like like tutors and classes But you know like the math and finances guy when he comes over I've been very clear with him I'm like I don't want anything to be non experiential meaning like if they're going to learn finances You guys are going to all get in the car again drive to the bank. They're going to learn how to talk to the teller They're going to learn what the other people and a little cubicles back behind the teller are doing They're going to learn how to get cash out They're going to learn the difference between the debit card and the credit card But it's not like they're doing that from a book. They're actually at the bank boots on the ground Learning all of that. Yeah, I would say the the only challenge I could see what this is It's also a good thing, but also challenges as a parent You don't just drop your kid off. You're super involved. It's a lot more work, right? Would that be accurate to say? Yeah, that's the tricky part is You know and and I'm I'm constantly questioning that myself is How much of this phase of my life should be all about the kids versus how much am I still building my own career? You know and building my own business because it's it's it's kind of paradoxical like you you have children or Or a spouse who you're trying to prepare and provide for And that's part of the reason that you work, but then you're also working Just to be able to to build your own impact, you know to build your brand to build your business, etc and so I I um I do question a lot, you know, like how much time do I actually spend focused on all the schooling and the curriculum and everything versus versus the business So, you know, I I don't really have a perfect answer for it But it there's there's a lot of engagement or a lot more engagement required of the parent now primarily what what I do with them Is I do physical education with them Meaning that every week like I've just got basically like four set criteria. We do kettlebells Heat cold and breathwork I'm convinced that like if you've got those four things as part of physical education like you're going to create a pretty resilient human being because because they're they're learning how to Move an asymmetrical object that requires a great deal of core stability with the kettlebell They're learning resilience and focus and tolerance to stress in the heat they're learning nervous system regulation And more stress resilience in the cold and then with the breathwork. They're getting a really intimate Relationship with how to control their physiology using their breath, you know, how to how to train co2 tolerance and breath hold So every single week they're working out with me and you know For example, we'll go out and we'll do like a ladder of one up to 20 kettlebell swings with push-ups And then we'll drop straight into 20 minutes of breathwork in the sauna And then we'll just go straight into, you know, 32 degree water for three minutes to finish up in the cold And then we'll go off and have dinner together. And so I do the physical education with them and A lot of times we'll write out like every sunday night. I'll write out the other things they're going to do during the week too Like sometimes I'll just be okay So this week you've got set aside from the workouts that you do with dad You've got seven one mile walk in your bare feet, right? So every day at some point during their school day, they're just like taking their shoes off heading outside One mile walk a lot of times. I'll just go out and do this stuff together Or I'll I'll give him some kind of a new barbell complex to learn I'll show it to him and tell him, okay You guys got to do this two times this week, whether it's with dad or or on your own And then I also do the spiritual disciplines with them each morning Uh and in the evening So so the physical disciplines are one part that I really commit to as being a present and engaged father for And then the spiritual disciplines what that looks like is at about 6 a.m So I usually get up around 4 30 or 5 kind of get some of my own morning You know stretching and foam rolling and have some coffee and I do a little bit of of A little bit of breath work. I'll use some of my bio hacks Like I got this thing called a bio charger and I'll jump up and down the trampoline You just do it just my morning self-care. It's just fun. I enjoy that You know, I like to wake up and have like a good hour Just to take care of myself and wake up and kind of kind of have a little bit of affluence of time to approach the day Then I get them up and I I put on some really nice music in the house I like this channel called soaking worship on spotify. It's like this perfect music You feel like the whole home's like this temple or church like really really nice orchestral tunes or piano music or a lot of like old school hymns set to kind of like, you know Epic instrumentation and so I put that on and that that's just about 6 a.m So the house is quiet until then they put that on I'll turn on some lights I light some candles I burn some incense and then I call them down and so when they come down from their bedroom It's like they're walking into like this sacred temple this peaceful setting in the home And we all sit down on meditation cushions in the living room We do a few rounds of whim-hoff to kind of like get just charge up the body for the day get the breath work going As soon as we finish breath work, we go into prayer We have a little devotional that we go through we read some scripture We pray some more we continue to listen to the music and so every morning for about 15 minutes Basically, we're just doing devotions meditation prayer, etc And then they go up to their bedroom. They get ready for the day I got down to my office and work for a while and then at 7 30 The whole family meets in the living room again And we do a morning meditation and the morning meditation is all based on What it is that you're grateful for that day or from the previous day And we're all visualizing this and going through it and seeing in our minds And then we do service we write down one person who we can pray for or help or serve that day We do tapping so that at the end of the meditation We're basically using like like neuro linguistic programming You kind of like tap on a certain area like mine is right over my heart right here I set an anchor and the reason that we do that is because when you're in that deep state of relaxation and peace From the morning meditation when you set an anchor What I tell my sons is anytime later on in the day where you're stressed out or where you know Life just seems to be coming at you too fast You can tap in that same location and it brings you back into that same state of peace That you experienced during the morning meditation And then we also do just basically like a six count in six count breath during that meditation You know eyes closed tongue resting on the roof of the mouth or tongue pressed up against the roof of the mouth And we're just basically Setting a standard at the beginning of the day And then after we do all that we finish typically with like the lord's prayer You know like our father art in heaven, hallowed be thy name We do that whole prayer together and then we all come together as a family because my wife is down there for that session As well, even though she's not there for that early early morning session that we do We all come together as a family do like a group hug kind of like a team hug team huddle And then we have a quick meeting about what else Going on that day, you know, who's going where what kind of classes are happening, you know, what time we have in dinner What's for dinner? Who's cooking? Who's pitching in here? Who's pitching in there? And then we just basically, you know, it's like clap clap and scatter everybody just goes off and we start into our day And you know, most of us are home my my office is at home My wife works from the home So we're all kind of kind of at home during the day we see each other But that's like the official kind of like meeting to launch the day And then uh, my my wife she's a she's a total Spiritual warrior like she like from the time that we do that morning meditation to about 9 30 for two hours She goes upstairs into the bedroom and she literally has like a meditation cushion that she sits on and she's up there for two hours just like reading and praying and meditating and journaling And just mapping out how she's going to help people the rest of the day. And then she just basically, you know Have you ever heard the family? Have you ever heard the critique because I've seen statistics on kids that uh, that are either homeschooled or unschooled And it's there's not a lot on this because there haven't been but although today you're seeing more and more kids or families moving this direction And the success rates are actually phenomenal when you compare to The average kid and the critique I've heard Is that really has it's just the parents are just way more involved So people have said I've heard people say this like oh the methods or whatever It's just because the parents are way more involved. The parents were way more involved with the I think that that could You're so involved right part of it But at the same time if you look past the parental involvement Which of course the the time that a parent spends as a child is extremely formative In terms of just that child sense of safety and belonging and you know being being seen and heard and also just the parent that cares so much Right. Yeah. Yeah, but I think that there are some other Potential failures of something like a modern traditional public schooling system everything from rote memorization of facts when really we live in an Era where you know google and automation Artificial intelligence dictates that rote memorization of facts is not necessarily something that's going to serve you that well versus You know creative thinking I remember my teacher saying you're not gonna have a calculator in your pocket all the time. Yeah But I mean, you know learning at the having to learn at the same pace as everybody in the classroom Or you know being subjected to bullying and peer pressure And I think there's there's some other things that happen in a traditional schooling system That would dictate that You know above and beyond just the fact that there's more parental involvement in traditional or in unschooling or homeschooling That there's some other things going on in a public traditional schooling setting that are just kind of like outdated You just name something like boy. Well, I mean does it ever concern you that that They don't have to deal with some adversities like that because there's you could make the case that there's some Some value to actually having to go through that and overcome it, right? So do you do you ever worry about that? That you ever engineer it Show Send them out for their one mile barefoot walk Billy the 17 year old you wait in there a half mile down the road You know what I think that with sports, you know being in jiu-jitsu and having to roll against You know guys who are older than them are bigger than them and you know having to They're they're playing tennis like they said they're doing the kettlebells and the heat and the ice and the breath work And I think you can build resilience in other ways than than just a good point Do you ever bullied here's something we've talked about a lot? I'd love to ask you this as well I'm a first generation America my parents were poor immigrants Adam didn't he grew up in pretty tough situation. Justin's family wasn't super wealthy Now we're all far more successful Than our parents were and we always talk about like how can we make our kids? Like we don't want to raise a bunch of privileged You know acting kids we want to make sure that they understand the value of Work and money even though they have all this way more stuff than we did or way more opportunity than we did You ever think about that? Like how can I create that in my kid? Well, what are the best ways? I do Uh, it's the all too common regs to riches to regs scenario that we see especially You know in america where you can make a name for yourself and so Uh, you know a man or a woman who is poor will will work hard. They'll put their nose to the grindstone They'll chop wood they'll carry water and then they'll supply their child with with a very privileged life and and Their their goal in many cases So I want my child to be able to have the freedom without the stress of worrying financially Or worrying about maslow's hierarchy of needs to be able to go forth and just do all the things I wish I was able to do when I was a kid, but I wasn't privileged enough to have Access to some of some of some of you know The finer things in life for the ability to be able to just engage in a lot of the creative things that I wanted to engage Because I was so worried about just surviving right and so Then what happens is the the parent who has who has created wealth Gives it to the child right and so the child never learns the same type of work ethic that the parent built The child winds up squandering the family's wealth often getting into trouble You know becoming a black sheep and this is pain with a broad brush, but it happens a lot And then and then the family wealth is squandered That child has a child who then grows up in a poverty stricken scenario And you start the whole sequence over and over and over again So it's like that rags riches to rags scenario and you look at some families You know that I would necessarily agree with everything that's going on with these families You know politically or ethically, but you look at like the Rockefellers or the bushes or the Clintons And you see you're like well, how do how do these families like get subsequently wealthier with each generation and subsequently more successful with each generation You almost see like a riches to riches to riches type of scenario And if you get down and you look at what a lot of these families are doing They've got a family constitution. They've got a family trust. They've got a family bank They've got a a family mission statement. They have a set of family values. The entire family Is actually run more like a business would be run and That that's something that I actually studied up on for the past couple of years because I wanted to ensure that I didn't create that scenario with my children because You know by god's good graces. I've I've found success Like I've you know, I've been I've been blessed with it with a platform and with some some good businesses And so I could give my kids, you know a lot in terms of saying, okay Well, I'm just gonna you know, I'm gonna pay for your college and I pay for your cars I'm gonna pay for what you need and you guys, you know make art and become low You know creative, you know five star Michelin chefs or whatever I don't necessarily think that that's the best way to create character and to create work ethic especially in you know any young human being and so What we did was um a few a few things With probably the most notable being that of work for the past couple years to Create this playbook for the greenfield family And the playbook has our family mission statement in it. It has all of our family values in it It has all of our traditions in it meaning. Here's what the greenfield family does at christmas Here's what we do at Easter. Here's what we do at Thanksgiving It has all the the ritualized ceremonial comings and goings that occur at different ages for each of the children At age eight, this is when we have to talk about you know sex and the birds and the bees or or at age 12 This is when they go through their rite of passage into adolescence and at age 14 or 15 This is when they go through their rite of passage into adulthood both of my sons know at age 16 That's when they quit getting money period like at that point. They are expected to take care of themselves They're expected to pay for their own food. They're expected to buy their own car They're expected to pay for their own college. They know already and they've known since they were 12 years old They're not getting a dime from me And so they're already having to think and I remind them about this about every month or so I'm like, all right guys. How's how's the the the books coming and the comic books You know, my son's he's getting an nfts now and and creating art that he's that he's selling as nfts on open sea and And so they're they're they know that when they turn 16 They got to have some sort of a foundational source of income set up for themselves Because the way that the greenfield family playbook goes is that they aren't getting a bunch of money from their parents after the age of 16 Now the family trust distributes family wealth, especially if mom and I Were to not be running more to die, you know, the kids get a certain amount of wealth at age 25 They get a certain amount of age 35. They get a certain amount of age 45 But any any wealth that's accumulating in our trust is not distributed to them all at once should mom and I pass away um and and The the little parts of that playbook though are really really interesting like we have a family logo Right family logo on our hats on t-shirts on hoodies on family mugs There's two giant flags outside the front door that fly the family logo almost like a castle on each side The family mailbox has the family logo on it. There's a giant crest above the fireplace It's this gorgeous metal sculpture that's got the family logo And all these stones are on the outside of it Which each with each of the family symbols every time a new grandchild or child gets added to the family Their unique symbol, you know, like my wife's is a seed. I'm a tree My son Taren is a leaf my son river is like a wave of water Well, every time they have a child or their child has a child that new symbol gets added to the crest So what we've got going on is this this um It's it's as though the greenfield name is something that means something As far as my son's being able to say hey, this is what the family stands for these are values These are our mission statements when they get married and they have their own family I'll hand them that playbook and they they aren't going to even need to to remember Because it's all written down there. Gosh, what did what did dad do with us when we were 12? You know, what happened when we were 16? How you know, what how? How do we even make like a family constitution or family trust or family bank like all of that is already done and so Probably the the best word to sum all this up would be legacy Right. So so when you're trying to avoid that rags to riches to rags scenario that you were asking about sell it's like if you intentionally and systematically Create legacy create a family playbook look at what a lot of these great families that actually do become More and more successful and more and more wealthy from generation to generation are doing And you replicate that then I think that's you avoid that scenario It's just that this knowledge is not that common a lot of people don't know how to do it There are books out there that that I had no idea I've never heard of this Yeah, really like for example the book what would the Rockefellers do that teaches you how to set up your family constitution your family bank? I mean, I've got whole life insurance policies on my wife on me on both of my sons that we do paid up additions to every month So we've got basically like four different banks that we can draw from and borrow against you using using ourselves as a bank Well at the same time providing, you know protection for us. We die Uh, there's another foundation called the legato family foundation leg ado and they actually specialize in working with families to set up this type of legacy based situation Where you actually do have things like a playbook and a crest and a mission statement of family values and family traditions and comings and goings And then I think kind of hand in hand With that is the whole ride of passage thing especially for boys especially for boys, you know because We don't have a biological ride of passage. We don't have a biological ride of passage, right? We so so little boys don't go through a period like little girls do You know and a girl does have a pretty significant time of her life where She experiences that that distinct transition into womanhood either when when during the onset of menstruation or when she has a child Right and a boy. Yeah, they go through puberty I don't know about you guys though, but there's Like I never had a part of my boyhood where I was told. Hey, you're a man now Yeah, right. You're you're a man like you don't have to work like you like I write You don't have to prove to the world that you're a man. You don't have to go off the new 20 years of iron man triathlons and Spartan races and all this shit to like prove to the world that you're That you're a man You don't have to be a man With a man's body walking around with a boy's psyche and emotions because again Like you didn't go through any period that was ceremonially recognized as you having transition From boyhood into manhood. By the way, lots of cultures have these uh ceremonial, you know traditions with boys Lots of them are kind of like disturbing, you know, like there's some native american tribes that hang that I mean, you can read about this They'd like hang the boys when they're 14 or 15 years old via like meat hooks through their skin from the tribe Hut and beat them with buffalo skulls Then you let them down they drag the skulls like from their skin Via change through the streets until it scrolls and then they finish up and they get their pinky cut off So they can prove that they're a warrior and like I think My sons are getting their pinky cut off with the cutco steak knife anytime soon but uh the the rite of passage um In the adolescence that my son's experience was four days out in the wilderness. We'll blanket backpack knife I mom and I dropped them off like 90 miles away from our house and they're they had a couple You know, typically the father does not does not facilitate these ceremonies Usually it's the uncle or a mentor because part of it is is you're killing your parents, right? You're you're you're cutting the cord, right? And so dad's not going to be out there in the forest with you But I'm also not going to just drop them out in the middle of Idaho Far north Idaho all by themselves And so I had a couple of instructors who would like keep an eye on make sure they were alive But yeah, I mean they spent four days out there. They came back. They had a ceremony They had a a fire ceremony and a speech that they gave and a gathering feast and And then they had a weekend with me where where we did just a ton of talking and solo father-son time And at that point like we quit calling them boys like we you know, if we shout up to the bedroom We don't go hey boys come down like they're called young men now or river and taran or twins or whatever But we changed our vernacular in the household. They were given a deeper sense of responsibility They were given more chores. They started getting up earlier with dad for things like the spiritual disciplines It was kind of like, okay. This is the next phase of life when they're They're 14 now so it would be next year so 15 March of 2023 they'll go through the rite of passage into adulthood. It'll be longer. It'll be more harrowing It'll you know involve again more time in the wilderness It'll probably involve a type of ego dissolving plant medicine ceremony at the end of all of that so that they can then Kind of go through through that whole experience of ego dissolution And then that'll be their transition to adulthood and a few months later They'll start to pay for for everything that they need in life. And so They're not gonna grow up wondering if they're men. Okay, so let's so let's say they're 16 and when your kids It's like this is not making any money. It's like you don't give them any food Well, I mean look How does that kind of work? I mean total asshole that so so the the the thing is um I don't know this yet either. You're assuming that's either he's not gonna Well, no, the reason why I'm asking that is I know people aren't wondering that because when you're dealing with 16 year olds You know, sometimes just like no, I'm not doing what you tell me, you know, which is a normal part of being A teenager where you want to rebel, right? That's kind of right, right, right? So if my son says I you know, I'm I'm not working And I'm not gonna make the money to pay for my own food or to pay for my room board Or to buy my own car or buy my own car, I mean that comes down to another big part of the way that we parent Which is consequential based parenting like we rarely discipline. We rarely say no in our house There are there are no rules for screen time. There's no rules for porn. There's no rules for alcohol There's no rules for gluten. There are no rules in our house. We just basically Educate them really really well on the consequences of any decision that they might make in life And then let them deal with the natural consequences, right? So You know, whatever screen time, right? They They're they're allowed unfettered access to technology But they do see when mom and I have downtime, we're rarely on our phones We're playing musical instruments or reading real books or outside nature or working out So they don't have a model of parents who are just like stuck to their phones And furthermore like when we have our big, you know, every night at our house is a is a freaking party Like 7 p.m. Rolls around the entire family's in the kitchen. We're doing a song We're doing a story. We're making dinner together. We're making dessert together We're cleaning together. We're doing story time up in the bedroom. We're doing music We're playing board games. We're playing card games at the table Nobody's thinking about video games or technology or their phones because we've made so many other aspects of life So much more fun and engaging and real compared to you know, the social media or something like that that It's just not something that they turn to in our home And so When it comes to to something like what's going to happen when they're 16 if they decide that that they're not going to get a job We're not going to pay Well, I mean it just comes down to the same way. We've always parented now. We'll do the same thing I've always done. I'll tell them. Well, look, that's that's fine. Here's what it feels like to be hungry Here's what's going to feel like to eat top ramen and and You know, and I have a strong hunch that after they experienced that life for a while that That they'll decide that they actually do like making money Yeah, I read a book on that and it was like to make it more simple It was like your kid you tell your kid wear your jacket. It's cold outside. I don't want to wear my jacket So all right, you don't have to wear your jacket and then you go outside and it's cold and they're freezing Right and you just say, uh, you know, that sucks, buddy It is cold and and and you you have to draw the line somewhere Like if you have a two-year-old and they're toddling towards a freaking cliff Don't tell them. Hey the bottom of that cliff is going to really suck Yeah, they're spiky rocks. It's going to hurt. So, you know, you make your decision for them I know you grab them off the edge of the cliff. They're toddling towards a hot stove You know, you say you don't want your kid getting a third degree blister on that I mean if they do it again and again, yeah Maybe you would want to kind of let them touch the stove and notice that it's hot and they're not going to make that That decision again So you got to have some wisdom and prudence and discernment as a parent But for the most part you let them deal with the consequences of their decision You let them deal with any stomach issues or neural inflammation that they might experience You have to just go on eight nuts on gluten at the birthday party Yeah, because they also made the case and I thought this was actually quite brilliant As I said, you know, if if you don't allow them to get these these mild consequences as a kid The consequences is you get older get bigger and bigger because then it becomes, you know drunk driving or Taking too many drugs or unprotected sex where it could have been stomach ache or I'm really tired because I didn't get good sleep But I still got to go to school or you know, like I said, I'm cold because I don't wear a jacket It makes sense to me. It definitely makes sense to me. Yeah, and you know, I I should clarify I mentioned I mentioned how there's like no rules for for pornography, for example at our house And certainly as part of this this sexual education that I've done with them I've taught them about for example, the the the dopaminergic desensitization that occurs when you are engaged in the in the evolutionarily mismatched scenario of seeing Sequences of extremely beautiful naked women over and over again Like that's not something that we from an ancestral standpoint have even evolved to be able to deal with You know, it's like dopamine dopamine dopamine click click click swipe swipe And eventually you just become desensitized and as I think all of us know with porn what that typically leads to Is you need more and more stimulus than you know, then you go to threesomes, then you go to donkeys Whatever else you know, and so it's kind of like that slippery slope. Yeah clowns and And so And then you know I've also taught them about how it results in Objectification of women how you can't you know be sitting there at night scrolling through through photos and and porn in the evening and then wake up and go interact with the With the members of the opposite sex and not be thinking about that when you're talking to You know your your girlfriends or you know or a woman that you might see like like those images will still go Through your head and I talk to them about how they would feel if that was their sister or their mom or their daughter who were thrust into that industry and and and and Basically, we're having to to make money for themselves doing something that they didn't technically want to do But that you know that basically was something that they got, you know Forced into or had I want to comment on what you said about the dopamine I read a study that showed that it it actually causes a Similar adaptation process in the brain is drugs So like you use a drug You get this dopamine serotonin whatever your brain adapts and you get a smaller response requiring more drugs And then what happens when you're off the drugs completely is regular life Is depressing right so then they see similar effects to the brain With pornography and we it's hasn't this kind of accessibility hasn't been around long enough We're starting to see now studies though that are starting to show some some really interesting negative effects Some of them are like erectile dysfunction, which we never saw with the men in their 20s Now there's tons of them And just lots of other issues. Are you are you reading any other studies on these effects? Yeah, and most that is spelled out, uh, you know, there's a website like your brain on porn.com I think the other one is is war on porn or something like that But yeah, it does get into the neurotransmitter Desensitization that occurs, you know when you're just constantly flooding the receptors with the dopamine rush That happens when when you're looking at photographs or videos, you know, the the body just becomes desensitized So I I have three sections in that book in door on porn sex and polyamory and and my take on all three I talk about some of that science in the porn section about that desensitization that occurs And the reason I brought all that up is back to the natural consequences thing And back to the well, where do you draw the line with the hot stove with the cliff? so it turns out that like 90 of the the the The situations in which an adolescent is exposed to porn is accidental It's accidental like that for it's not like a kid is is is going online and searching for whatever Hot babe pussy or whatever It's like they're on some website or some youtube video or whatever And then it's kind of like there's a pop-up that occurs or Or a link to click or even like a phishing email or whatever and you wind up accidentally On a website where all of a sudden there's all this imagery that you know for for a young innocent mind It's all of a sudden right in their face They don't know what to do with it a lot of times then they they start down the rabbit hole and they click and they become intrigued Because that's just the way the human brain works. So and like I actually have Software protection program installed on their eye touches and on their macbooks called canopy And it does restrict a lot of these websites from being able to pop up Right, so that would be an example where yeah, I'm using consequential based parenting, but I'm also putting up some fences You know just to make sure that they're protected because I know about the accidental exposure that occurs Yeah, like most of the time it's it's not that a child is actively seeking out I wasn't seeking it the first time I came in interested Do you remember for you? No, I wasn't either. I remember my wife's same thing It was just like we were just in call like my wife She's at the she's at the college library and all of a sudden like you know, she's It's It's like some advertising that pops up and a bunch of videos and and then yeah No, I was looking for it All of a sudden your innocence is destroyed and then eventually especially as guys like then we're like, oh wow this world Well, I mean speaking of which you have two boys, okay, and you talked about them becoming men And it seems like the well, it's not seems like I think this is absolutely true We're we have glorified completely Being remaining boys and made being a man and I'm going to define that for a second But being a man is being a bad thing in other words Boys are you know, you make money. You're paying all the chicks. You got no responsibility got fast cars. You're cool Nothing tying you down. I don't need kids because I can do whatever I want being a man is like Responsibility wife family have a job, you know that kind of stuff boring. Yeah, not only boring But it's like your life is over that really sucks. So so having boys It's like all the media is showing them that you know, you watch tv. It's like dads are dumb dads get you know Homer Simpson and the guy from the modern family Phil and the family guide dad Peter Yeah, exactly. And yeah, they're buffoons modern dads are buffoons buffoons and tied down and unhappy and it sucks And it's so much better to have No responsibility, you know as a guy This is what's his name James Dean. Yeah, and as a guy, you know part of the challenge is this is true as a man You become more attractive the older you get the more money you get So we don't have the same natural limitations or should I say barriers that a woman may feel when she feels She starts to feel responsible earlier. She's like, well, I got a biological clock And I want to settle down and guys are like, whoa I'm 35 now and more girls are interested in me and I'm making more money and I never want to grow up And this is so fun How are you gonna how do you deal with that with your boys and really communicating to them like look Looks cool, but it's not that's not where it's at I think a big part of it is the example that you set like my sons See when I when I take them to conferences or events with me They see that I'm helping people and I don't want to sound like narcissistic right now But I'm I'm just just just briefly like they see that I'm making impact They see when people come up to me and hug me and tell me that they've they've rediscovered god or they've rediscovered their health Or they've found their fitness or they've done an iron man triathlon Or they've they've gotten connected with their family or their sons or a pair of their relationship with their parents You know any any kind of things that I talk about my sons see that um That I'm making impact They see again back to the legacy the idea that you can live for something greater than the temporary pleasure that comes from Sex drugs and rock and roll that that's you know all too commonly Glorified in our modern day and age they they see that there's more that you can live for There's more impact that you can make they see the joy that arises when you have like a stable Nuclear household with you know, I've been married to my wife for 19 years And they see mama is like best friends and lovers and they see us going off on dates and adventures and playing tennis together and going on hikes and and you know going to dinners together and helping people in the local community and and They see in their own lives, you know that this this whole concept of like the greenfield family Having a a a unified mission statement and a unified set of values. And so there there's very little emphasis placed upon the the the benefits of being like your own person or Not not your own person, but but kind of quit. Well, you just laid out like like yeah Yeah, like that that free-loving almost like yeah, it is glorified just like the Well, the truth is at one point in their life They are going to get to a point where maybe they even dabble in that or think about that or are tempted with that But if you've established what you've done so well for so long so consistently I feel like that's what will always pull them back You know what really taught me I'll tell you what taught me that because I was young when I had my first kid was I figured out it took me a while by the way because I was young and I did think I was missing out when I All of a sudden had all this responsibility when I had my first kid But I thought to myself I'd never trade it back Like yeah, but would I ever trade my kid for going back? No way And it was communicated the way it was communicated to me was like this is like you have yes You got more responsibility more stress and it's more expensive It's also way more meaningful and now you have real now you're going to grow and there's way more purpose in life Totally true. They're both they're all totally true. Would I trade? money and less stress and well, you know that kind of freedom for For what I have now never not even close. That's how I kind of had to learn it You know myself. That's the way I try to create it a little bit. Yeah, and you know, I was telling you guys I'm working on a parenting book right now that talks about a lot of these concepts The reason that I started writing the parenting book was a lot of people were asking me About our parenting philosophies and even some of the same questions that you guys are asking me right now The problem is my sons are 14. Who's to say they're not going to wind up in prison, you know, and who's They're not cooked yet. They're not out of the oven like they're they're still they're you know, they're they're they're If they do end up parenting model, it'll be for good. It's yet to be proven Yes, for a good reason that the book will be on sale But I thought I know like on my podcast and just in a lot of the books I've read about parenting like I know of and know a lot of really great parents whose children have grown up And been super impactful and it started amazing organizations and charities and a change of the world And I had a list of about 60 different parents who I just thought were absolutely amazing And I generated a list of 32 different questions like how do you carve out one-on-one time with your child? How do you engage in your own self-care? How do you tackle the paradox of passing on life wisdom to your child without making them adult? You know too early in life and stressing the mouse out with you know being an adult And so I had all these questions and I basically just chose all these parents I sent them all the questions and for the past year I've been getting all the responses back Some parents are recording the audios and sending them back to me and I'm transcribing them Or having them transcribing and editing them some of them writing them down Some of them are completing an online form that I made for the questions But as you know as I'm going through this editorial phase and the book is you know I'm deep in the throes of it, but it won't come out till I think this this november-ish is what I'm shooting for But there are common themes That I'm seeing over and over again That are showing me you know what kind of habits Seem to result in children who don't make the kind of mistakes that you know that we voiced some fears about here today So um Intentionally carving out one-on-one Date time with each child at least on a monthly basis is something I see over and over and over again Family dinner Family dinners extreme emphasis placed on family dinners even to the sacrifice of things like evening team sports and things of that nature It's another big one Mom and dad almost every single set of parents who are super impactful They've got twice a year up to four times a year some type of quarterly two to four day retreat The parents go on just just on their own to be able to do family planning and and to connect and to basically plan out everything from Education to to legacy, but it's this carved out Like a carved out getaway between the husband and the wife From a from a uh disciplinary standpoint very very similar to what I was talking about earlier A lot of consequential based discipline and not a lot of just like no do this You know you can't do that But instead educating the kid on the consequences of their decisions So i'm getting all these patterns now that are coming up and it's super interesting I don't think all the things that you're doing necessarily are things to prevent Your your boys from making so much the wrong decision as much as it is to remind them what the home base looks like I feel like because they're gonna they're gonna They're gonna make their own choices at one point in their life no matter what and you won't have any control Right say and and you're right they absolutely could end up in prison one time They absolutely could go on a drug bender for a while and that doesn't mean what you did failed Because I still think because of how consistent you were with raising this way My belief would be that even if they they they veer off for a little while they'll remember What that looked like what's that saying and then come back Yeah Well, what's that saying is that you could put carpet all you could carpet the whole world or you could wear Pieces of carpet under your feet like it's like raising strong people versus trying to change and protect them from the world Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely and um Yeah, I think that uh that A big thing that i've noticed that has resulted in them having like a lot of A lot more patience and a lot less of kind of like add adh like tendencies which Technically, I think is a lot of times just being a boy, you know And you know that hey look a squirrel type of mentality that a lot of boys have It kind of shocked me how impactful breath work was Oh sure in terms of of just and and they love it They actually asked to do breath work like we'll get towards the end of the day like dad When we're you know a breath work session and we go down there in the sauna Oh the the app that we're using right now is called other ship And it's got like everywhere from two up to full like once a month We do 60 to 90 minute whole atropic breath work session all three of us guys Ladies you can hold 12 year olds attention laid out on our back in the sauna and i'm teaching them everything from like You know, they don't know this yet, but i'm sure they'll be great at tontric sex and everything Because they're doing like pelvic breath like pelvic locks and squeezes They're doing like like the uh the the Long exhales and hold the big inhales are learning how to how to move breath up through each of their chakras And shoot the light out the top of their head almost like the kundalini energy philosophies And i think the breath work especially for a kid is amazing in terms of just giving them a really intimate relationship with how to control their physiology And so that's something that that you know, it seems it seems kind of trite But i've noticed a real change and just like their Their mentality and their resilience from doing that. Well, you answered the question I was just gonna ask which was you know, you're doing all these things Of course to for the future Um, are there other things than just that that you're already seeing an impact on like, oh wow That's working or oh wow i can tell that was i'm glad we're definitely doing that because you're seeing it already unfold Yeah, yeah, well definitely the breath work like i talked about definitely that morning spiritual time Like teaching a child about just the the sacredness of their existence the sacredness of life the fact that that um, you know, we we are spiritual creatures with a soul And giving them that foundation of waking up in the morning and as the very first thing they do Caring for their soul engaging in a gratitude practice engaging in some form of service towards their fellow human beings You know learning how to how to speak with god how to listen to god How to meditate and i didn't talk about this when i was telling you about the morning Journaling practice, but in the evening same thing very last thing we do we all we gather together in Uh river and tarrans bedroom. We do typically a song. We do a story. I still read them a story every night When we're home i i've already told them i'm like as soon as you guys are sick of dad telling you bedtime stories You just tell me and i'll stop reading you bedtime stories because i i'm constantly constantly trying to get a feel for like God am i just doing this for me Like wish i'd freaking get out of their room already Yeah, but but no we do a bedtime story and then we do evening meditation And the evening meditation is the process of self-examination. I think this has been very good for them It's very good for me too. I think this is this is probably one of the the best things I do at the end of each day. I close my eyes I play the entire day like a movie the only person I've ever heard say do that I'd tell people about that about how I've developed self-awareness was exactly that it works And you play you watch yourself like a third person character going through your whole day And you you're asking yourself What good did I do? What could I have done better like where like what did I fail at that I learned from and whereas I most Purpose filled today. So I evaluate my whole emotions of where were my highs my lows What made me happy and joyful in the day what made me frustrated or down and then unpacking Those like why did that make me? Why did I get upset at that person and yeah trying to unpack and get into like the insecurity which it's normally rooted in Exactly the things that gave me joy remembering that that's something important Make sure you build that in your life like you learn a lot about yourself It stacks as you do this like every day gets better because like if you're doing those two questions What good have I done what could I've done better and whereas I'm most purpose filled Well, you learn How it is that you structure day that allows you to good for other people You learn about things that you're doing mistakes that you're making that you really want to want to stop Like if I for five days in a row write down a I really wish I'd have Had more time to play music today. Well, eventually I'll get to a point where I'm just like screw I don't want to write this anymore in my journal I'm going to carve out intentional time to practice my guitar or practice piano And then whereas I'm most purpose filled well I mean like as far as like your icky guy your purpose what gets you out of bed each day If you're writing down each day Which activity it was that you felt most purpose filled like where you're in the zone when things are really flowing When you had a smile on your face and time was going by fast Like that's a clue that can teach you every single day about What it is that you will really put on this planet to do and so it's this positive cycle And you were talking about some of the questions that you ask Adam That like those three questions are good that another three that that I really like They're what What filled me with the most energy today What drained my energy the most today and what did I learn about myself today? Like I like those three questions too and we we'll we'll kind of go back and forth Sometimes we'll do those three questions. Sometimes we'll do those other three What's dope is if you practice that on a regular basis every night you begin to be able to process that on real time Yeah, that's what I found like because to be honest I'm not as consistent with that as I was in my like early 20s and even in my 30s But I've done that so consistently for so many decades now That I can see it happen now in real time because I've practiced that Every single night of unpacking my day and going like so then when those feelings arrive I go, oh, it's one of those moments Yeah, so, you know like like not at the end of the day But during any given day let's say when you're engaged in a certain activity You can check yourself and ask yourself is this really a purpose filled activity Am I just spinning my wheels or am I doing something impactful right or somebody getting me upset and getting emotional I was like, oh, is this really what they're saying? Or is this really my own shit? This is probably my own shit right now Not really that you know the fact that the fact that they said something and is making me feel this way Has ain't nothing to do with them and so instead of reacting that person I'm already doing the internal work real time because I've practiced that at night for so long So yeah is this person draining my energy is this person filling me with energy? Yeah, it's it's It's uh, it's the concept of just knowing myself, right? I think it's one of the most important practices personally myself. I've ever practiced in my yeah with the with the quickly evolving Society and technology much faster now than it was when we were kids Do you look forward and think like is there anything that worries you with your kids and think okay? How can I prepare them for this or maybe ai or vr is going to get so good? We're gonna maybe want to you know go into technology. Is there anything that you look forward and you go, okay? Let's let's let's try to prepare thing that I've gotten a little bit um Worry about is the metaverse Yeah, this idea of even though I see a lot of value for example. I took part in an online educational session in which I put on the oculus quest glasses and I joined a bunch of other people for A presentation and we were all in this room together and the powerpoint was on the wall But you could like interact with it and walk up to it and then kind of go away from it and talk to some other people And the closer you got to those people the closer their Voices became it was very realistic and a very enriched learning environment that Impressed upon me the idea that when it comes to education Or when it comes to being able to interact with people in a very rich environment That you might not be able to Travel all the way across the world too or or be with physically But can be as close to physical interaction digitally That there is some value in that I could like for me I would love to be able to start giving some of my zoom presentations and my keynotes and some Some of the events that I do for places that I can't actually get to to speak I would love to be able to do those in a little bit more of a meta versus esc scenario Yet when we look at the ability to be able to like whatever, you know Own virtual real estates or to be able to just basically You know live half your life with a headset on you know in a digital world almost like the matrix And when I look at the emerging landscape of of meta and nfts and digital art versus analog art And you know just this idea that you could technically live a lot of your life tied down to technology That's the one thing i'm a little worried about I think it's going to be just like every other virtual virtual existence very every other amazing digital technology that we've seen in the past It's it's going to be a tool and it's good There's going to be addictive properties and negative side effects to it But then there'll be very powerful ways that you can use it to wield good any truly powerful tool Has got a good and a bad side any I mean one of the first massive You know and it's new for all of us. It's new for all of us. So we're nervous. We're worried or whatever But the truth is that it's look we just like we discover fire, right? Well, I mean totally changed mankind and now we can burn each other and wage war like never before Nuclear power same thing and I think that's what makes it so dangerous is that it's going to be so revolutionary and so impactful But the potential for I mean because I can't even begin to imagine what that could potentially Look like for a person who wants to escape Which a lot of us want to escape. I mean we see that with our drugs. Yeah, it's very similar Yeah, people want to escape and feel something different and like this would provide them a whole new opportunity to experience Like a life that they can create in a virtual setting. So that is pretty crazy. That's why I think we're going to be divided I think we're going to have we're going to be split almost down the middle of people that Choose to be plugged in most their life and they choose that life because they think it's better And then the other people that recognize that and go like nah the real if I had to choose between And this is really what I'm focusing on most with my boys an analog existence that comprises That's comprised of like right now They're they're beekeeping and they're bow hunting and they're gardening And they're outside a lot and they're cooking real food And frankly my sons are they're not total Luddites, but they are kind of shitty yet like Technology in general. They don't have a phone. They kind of sort of know their way around their MacBooks But mostly they just use them for word processing Their eye touches are mostly for them to listen to music and and you know, one of my sons has it has a camera He's getting a photography, but even that you know, it's outdoor nature photography. They live a very analog existence I don't think they're ever gonna Really, you know be the next zuckerberg because of that But I would much rather like I I would much rather them like Not make a ton of money because they haven't really tapped into technology in the digital world in the metaverse but like be able to provide for their families bow hunting and Building the house and gardening and you know having goats and chickens and like I just I like the beauty and the simplicity and The dependency and the realistic aspects of an analog existence far more than I do the idea of a digital Yeah, the only thing I disagree with you on that Adam is I don't think it'll be down the middle I think it'll be like 10 percent Or we'll want to be unplugged and 90 percent But I agree that there's I think it'll be greater than that to just this point of it being like a drug The same you think there's only 10 percent of the population that are addicted to drugs I think there's oh No, no, I hear what you're saying I think it's going to be like look at like obesity for example at some point Oh, you think 90 are going to be in the metaverse. Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. Well, then you I wouldn't bet against you on that I'm saying at least half. No, I'm no, I agree that there's going to be people on but I think it'll be majority But I also think that it'll sway back to the what you're saying too like And maybe and maybe initially it goes 90 because everybody thinks it's safe and it's fine And then we start to see all the unintended consequences of living a life like that You're taking it for granted and that's typically this is typically how we work as humans, right? The pendulum swings this back and forth like this sometimes that we got to weigh You're probably right it'll go 90 at one point I don't disagree with that and and then but a large percentage those people will start to Start to evaluate and start to see some of these consequences and family members and friends and go Oh, shit, maybe we got to get out of this a little bit and then I actually think That this though the things that you're teaching your boys actually will come back into favor And it will be something that people will talk more about and it'll be drawn to that Yeah, I think so too. I really do maybe because it'll be counterculture, right counterculture tends to be possible I'll just be that solar flare that happens in 2080 Or forced to make people realize who who the truly valuable humans are You know the pale weak easy to kill folks in their basement with a virtual reality headset I know Arthur Brooks the alien Arthur Brooks said you eat them first for sure. They'll be easy prey Easy with that that billboard that 24 fitness had when they come to leak the fat ones first No, Arthur Brooks said like when you meet with people digitally you get the same dopamine responses you get in real life But you don't get the oxytocin Uh-huh, so you get the addictive the bonding, but you don't get the bonding Like, you know nourishing same effect. So it's so that's why it's like, uh, it's like drinking ocean water It's a high without the love, right? But of course you can get intranasal oxytocin and fix that Just you know a little nasal spray and then you got the best of both have it just connected Arthur Brooks is great by the way that always strength to strength that he was really good I did a Documentary or a docu series down in Salt Lake City on happiness. I just finished filming it. It'll come out in October I interviewed like 40 of the world's leading experts on happiness, you know, and he's the man. Yeah We're happiness is actually you know derived from which was really like I probably Could could sum the whole thing down just basically, you know 99.9 percent of Of the lessons that I learned boiled down to just like this victor frankle-esque philosophy If you choose happiness, right? Don't seek happiness just see happiness in whatever scenario that you're in rather than sitting with angst About whatever situation that you're in whether it's Traffic or stress or your job or relationship or an argument or whatever You realize that most of the emotions that you feel Attend to drag you down or emotions that I kind of feel the same way about love You feel the same way about love. I feel like that's the same kind of philosophy with that I think so many people are waiting for love or chasing love when it's like you choose to love, you know Yeah, yeah, exactly. You choose to love like like, um In a relationship like my relationship with my wife I I think that a lot of people They think that You are just going to have this burning hot romantic passion your entire life And in many cases you actually have to go out of your way and and you have to almost generate love Say, I love you and and go out of your way to love that person and and sometimes it does feel like sacrifice a little bit But yeah, but you you choose to love you almost create love But but yeah back to this this docu series Arthur was one of the people that I wound up interviewing for and his interview was just great I remember at the very very end. He said ben it comes down to I think it was it was Seven words seven words most people will Though they'll use people They'll love thing use people love things Worship themselves Because that's six words right use people love things worship themselves When really the key to happiness is love people use things worship god Yeah, and he he finished with that kind of like a mic drop moment at the end of the interview and I just thought it was great Oh, I never heard of him before in the one I interviewed him. I was like, oh, yeah I know he's a good friend. I talked I talked about I really like him. Yeah No, I think uh people fall in love they they for lack of a better term They fall in love with the feeling of love when it's that's not love is an action and it's it's it's the choice Right. Yeah, it's not the feeling that comes with it sometimes and it come but like all feelings come and go But you have to choose uh the action if you fall in love with the feeling you're screwed because You're gonna be with someone for 20 30 40 or you may end up waiting your entire life And all you had to do was choose to do it versus yeah thinking that it's gonna hit you over the head Which honestly, this is how I thought that way. You know, I thought it was I didn't understand But movies show you yeah, I did not think it was like that as a kid growing up I assume that you everyone would tell you like, oh, you'll just know when you're in love and you fall in love and you just keep So you have that thought process When it's like, you know, it wasn't until my late 20s 30s even possibly where I was like realizing. Oh my god Love is an action. It's a choice. It's something that I have to choose to do And yeah, then it like completely dawned on me, you know totally. Yeah. Yeah, and I mean gosh like like I My my wife and I we I would say like the top things we do right now because our relationship is just magical It's it's so good. Like we're just so in love and we're so bond and you know knock on wood We're just like yoked spiritually physically emotionally mentally everything but uh, first of all we We have a policy that we're able to come up to the other person and have a no judgment conversation Like total transparency and you can just read the riot act to that person They're only responsibilities to be a sounding board to hear everything about you that they're annoyed about or something That's really bothering them about you and it's not an argument You're literally just there to listen and say, okay, thank you if you have something against them That's not time to bring it up. You do it you layer But it's just basically We know that we can come to each other anytime just be like, hey look I need no judgment its own vent here And then you're just able to lay it all out to that person And not have them feel as though they're going to be offended Or have to argue back or give a bunch of reasoning for for why they did It's just a chance for you to talk to the other person And it sounds like you'd be frustrating for the person who's receiving it Which is sometimes but but for the most part it allows us to be super transparent without the fear of the other person Judging you were getting angry at you for what it is that you're expressing So we do that and then we pray together every night like last thing as soon as our heads hit the pillow Like even if it's we're just exhausted at the end of the day And it's just like 30 seconds. We always pray at the end of each day So we're kind of like yoked spiritually as well And then between that and like the quarterly retreats that we go on and the family dinners, you know the morning and evening meditation like we're just It's really really good right now. Yeah, do you find? Your you know your passion for fatherhood is growing maintaining like How do you feel fatherhood? Oh, it's definitely growing. I mean, you know as your kids get old They just become more fun to hang out with They're funny and their sense of humor gets better and you know the jokes that they tell get better and and they're Stronger and faster and start to challenge you physically and now when we play family tennis, you know, they're like good Like though they as a team can go up against mom and I and you know, it's kind of nice because like cast I can remember the two they barely hit the ball Yeah, now we've invested in that skill in them and and Yeah, and it's just yeah, there's we just got done Hiking for 10 days we hiked five days in the Sedona and five days in the Grand Canyon and put over 90 miles in about 10 days and and just had an amazing time together We just hike all day by a couple cheap sets of playing cards play cards at night and Go to sleep wake up to the next do the thing the next day and yeah, yeah, no, I'm pretty happy with the family Well, you're always always fun to talk to you man. I love I love picking your brain You're a great guy very smart dude very interesting and it's good to hear the stuff Yeah, I'm super pumped about the family legacy thing. I'm so gonna pick those books. So totally dive into that. I think yeah Oh, man. Yeah, I'm excited for the book. It's gonna be called. I'm gonna call it boundless parents I'm gonna build it on the on the boundless series Yeah, I just I just got the covers and are you gonna are you going to implement some of those things that you talked about with the family Legacy that you learned and everything like from the Rockefeller. Is it gonna be in your book? Yeah, oh for sure Oh, for sure. No, no, but like the guy who owns that legato foundation his name is rich christians And he's he's one of the featured parents. Oh really? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, I'm excited for that Yeah, we're gonna make matching but it's pretty I mean it spans again I mean freaking paul checks in there with two wives and you know all the way down to like, you know Mormon genealogy parenting legacy people and soul leg like so it's it's it's a wide spectrum of parents. Yeah, that's cool I'm gonna go make matching leather jackets. Yeah Right on dude always good scene. Thanks man. Appreciate it man. You too guys. Thanks