 Good afternoon all like to call the order of the meeting of the city of Santa Rosa design review board What day is it? Is it still Thursday? And it is 20th of February so welcome everybody Patty may I have a roll call, please? Let the record reflect that all board members are present. Thank you, Patty And on the item number two approval of the minutes we have before us the minutes of February 6th 2020 regular meeting Anybody have any additions comments? I was I was trying to understand how as a board We and it's a noble thing to say keep in mind the human scale and draw the human scale throughout the project It's kind of a kind of a tough It's kind of an intangible. I don't know quite what I would do with that but just a note in the future maybe Whether we're talking about awnings there or things that clear your head or whatever There's a clarification that was a note about prioritizing the pedestrian and bike access rather than the large boulevards, so You know, but the gist of it was the human scale, but human scale is so it's not getting run over It's being able to cross the street. It's not 50 feet across. Yeah. Yeah, and yeah exactly having huge boulevards and tall buildings But we're remember that it's a neighborhood. So there's a better way to say it Yes Thanks. It's fair enough. Yeah Anything else Okay, we'll go ahead and put those into the record. Thank you I remember three board business. This is where I read the statement of purpose for this board versus other boards and commissions within the city Project review the review authority shall consider the location design site plan configuration and the overall effect of the proposed project upon surrounding properties and the city in general Review shall be conducted by comparing the proposed project to the general plan in the applicable specific plan applicable zoning code standards and requirements consistency of the project within the city's design guidelines architectural criteria for special areas and other applicable city requirements i.e. City policy statements or development plans. So that's this board's purview At this time, I would like to open up for public comment any items not on today's agenda If you're here to comment on today's item, we can we'll have that later any items for the purview of this board not on today's agenda Seeing no one approach the microphone. We'll close that public comment period Item number five is statement of abstentions by board members. Do we have any abstentions today? Seeing everyone sitting here and ready to perform. I see no abstentions Scheduled items we have one scheduled item today It is a major design review for the travel lodge at 1815 Santa Rosa Avenue file number dr 19002 and we have Planner Kristen a two man's to make a presentation for us followed by the applicant. I'm sure Thank You chair concave and members of the designer you board. I'm Kristen a two means senior planner and The project will that we'll discuss today is the travel lodge at 1815 Santa Rosa Avenue Ordinarily this project Because it's in a priority development area would have been a minor design review going before the zea with a concept designer view before the drb but given some of the potentially historic nature of the property and the prominence of the location the project was elevated to full designer view board with Acceptance from the applicant as well The applicant is requesting to remodel the exterior facade of the hotel the travel lodge and the changes include Establishing a contemporary color palette addition of stone veneer along the base and a lighter aluminum horizontal slat screen Accentuating the existing thin with a band of LED strip lighting and Relanscaping the planting areas with water efficient landscaping. Here's the project location outlined in the light blue The project site is located along a busy and established commercial corridor surrounded by various commercial uses and large shopping centers to the to the north there's a tyrant automotive service Business to the south is Rosa Vista trailer park, which also wraps around the western boundary of the project site To the east is Santa Rosa Avenue additional lodging facilities Santa Rosa Marketplace with the Costco shopping center And to the west we have a predominantly highway 101 This is a street view of the existing project location Showing the project face on on Santa Rosa Avenue It's currently developed with a 10,770 square foot hotel lodging facility with Parking and amenity areas and it's just under an acre This is the view looking west directly across from the Wendy's Here's a view looking south you can see the prominent thin projecting out of the main office Here's a little bit closer look that shows the existing sign and landscaping And here's looking north and you can see a little bit of the Rosa Vista trailer park Up against the hotel You can see the area is predominantly Zoned for general or zone for retail and general retail With the exception of the mobile home park just south of the project site This is the existing site plan. There is no planned expansions with this proposal the applicant Plans on a new drop-off area which includes a new roof extension which The architect states will better connect the building to a guest's arrival And there will be new walkways to comply with modern ADA paths of travel Here are the existing elevations and I highlighted the north elevation with Slightly rosy hue showing Where the roof extension is proposed in the next slide You can still see the fin prominent fin in the front Here are the proposed elevations with the new stone veneer and aluminum cladding the fin remains And there's a new color scheme throughout the elevations Here's a close-up of the front office building with the fin The existing building has a prominent fin design popular in the 50s The applicant is proposing to keep the fin and enhance it with led strip lighting And as I mentioned there's proposed stone veneer and horizontal slat screen This was a late part of the late correspondence that was sent to you around 11 30 This morning and it's the proposed landscape plan It shows the proposed plantings in front of the main building along Santa Rosa avenue And these are the colors and materials that the applicant proposes And as far as historic preservation a structure may be historically significant if it meets any one of the criteria It is already listed on the california register of historic resources It is a local register of historic resources or it's over 50 years of age in this case The building's over 50 years of age It's not listed in the preservation it's not in a preservation district nor is it a landmark And our records reflect that the facility was constructed around 1953 And any additional permit records are very sparse And so the significance stems solely from the age of the building The applicant submitted a historic resource evaluation that was prepared by historic architect Um, that's part of your packet part one of the attachments And his report concludes that the building is not eligible As a cultural resource nor does it have any historic significance the applicant will retain the original use and materials of the building Additional finishes will be sympathetic to the era era of the building And the proposed work will maintain integrity of location design setting materials Workmanship feeling and association With that the proposed project has been reviewed in compliance with CEQA And has been found to qualify for a class one exemption In that the project is limited to exterior and interior alterations And there's a negligible expansion of the use And as of today there are no unresolved issues and we haven't heard it from anyone from the public concerned about this project and with that The planning division recommends approval the travel logic major exterior model The applicant is here as well as their his designers if you have questions about The architecture and staff is here. You have any questions? Thanks Thank you very much. Uh, is there applicant presentation or just here to answer questions? Okay, perfect, so uh just for questions, so I guess we'll uh bring it back to the board and um Ask any questions you have of staff or the applicant Maybe we'll start at the other end this time madam. Can we start with you today? Sure Just uh right off the bat. Uh, who uh, uh, who who did the landscape plan? Love myself. I'm michael cown with the coast landscape. It's a preliminary design I think we'll uh ask you to uh come maybe closer to the microphone and as Um, if you've got an answer to one of the questions that are asked if you get approached the microphone because this is being recorded and it's on televised so Thank you My name is mike can with coast landscape management and I prepared the designs more of a preliminary design But uh, I can answer any questions you may have No, uh, that's great. Um, just uh, I was just wondering who actually did it. So thank you That's all Thanks adam true. I mean true brett. I'm so used to going that way. Yeah brett Is this for both staff? whomever So question first staff, I guess is um, I noticed that there's a a few areas of Um, I guess landscaping that's being taken out as part of this um and being paved um and At what level does this trigger a you know, are there basically we're Introducing additional impermeable area um And so I know, you know, there's um, there's probably I understand probably why it's happening But as a as a feature and as a buffer and as a threshold from parking to these units, um I'm just curious the One what at what level what square footage triggers this, you know a um, I guess understanding of the drainage and you know, again increasing impermeable area but also as uh um as I guess a feature of the Of the original design and intent and and things like that. Um, you know, what implications are there So, um, 10,000 square feet is the threshold for when um A more detailed stormwater evaluation has to be um performed for the project this didn't meet that threshold and our um Engineering division issued a pretty standard condition in the exhibit a And they didn't seem to have concerns about the increased impervious surface Okay, and then maybe for the applicant if just the rationale behind the removal of that of those areas because it's you know It's um I guess in in terms of you know being at hotels or using facilities like this, you know, it's a nice edge treatment and um and buffer Hi, my name is vimal sharma. I'm the gm on the hotel and The reason that we are Asking for the additional parking is that we are actually lacking enough parking for the guest units We are 31 guest rooms we and over the course of the years Adding more and more uh handicap accessible spots removed regular parking spots So we actually started to fall short where customers did not have parking when they were staying at the hotel So they would actually have to park along the long side and they didn't feel safe that their cars would be hit You know while exiting or entering the driveway. So that's why we propose that We would add additional parking for the guest Okay, I guess it's just the for me. It's just the the buffer so between the railing and the actual parking stall. So it doesn't Are you just are you just making the argument that by elongating? these so If I read the uh plans correctly you're adding one two three four parking spaces up towards the uh Landscaped area in which case you need more backup room for the other parking spaces. So they can you push those forward or Sorry, I didn't I didn't get that the the four parking spots that Which the current parking spots that are you're seeing there or Is that or is all that parking that we're seeing right now currently there? Oh, yeah, that's currently there. Yeah, okay No, that that's already currently there. Okay, you can use the mic if you're on here point I guess I'm curious about it's all of these spaces here. So these are existing Yes, and so all of these are being filled in per the note All of these landscape areas Are being filled in with concrete, right? Correct. Oh, and you're asking about the the buffer Yeah, just just why the You know, I think I know the answer but why the you know, why why do that? I guess so The reason that I wanted to the plants that we have there what's happening is is that it's causing a lot of Spiders and wasps to nest there and we've been getting a lot of guest complaints So what we figured we'd do is we would actually Go ahead and put concrete over there and instead we would put potted plants in You know by the some of the poles So we would still have the greenery would still be there, but we wouldn't have the issue of The wasp and the fire spiders getting into the rooms or and around the property Uh, okay. Um, so I guess if you're just going to be putting plants back in place in a pot Right, they're going to be in a pot. It's still there. Yeah, there's still going to be plants there It's just gonna be they're going to be potted and you know, so they are not elongated entirely in the hotel so we could kind of control it better Okay And then I guess my other comments were just around It looks like on the preliminary landscape plan There's still the central And then maybe this is another question because of the renovation and I assume that the square footage is over 2,500 square feet For you're modifying 2,500 square feet Or more of landscape area and that Triggers the wuckles requirements and and things like that for irrigation But the but the sod is still being left in the center aisle. Is there are there any plans to maybe like Bring the sides in to that area as well. I guess when I'm I'm thinking of places like the sandman hotel and the astra hotel who have done some Really nice things with their frontage albeit limited space, you know, even like two foot or 18 inch wide planters They've done some really nice things with You know removing the little bits of lawn that they had or emphasizing, you know The features that you're putting on this building now and kind of the renovation of the building So it's just, you know, if it's Possible to remove, you know, I don't think Having that Piece of sod in the in the middle is going to meet the wuckles requirement But maybe that's something for the city in permitting to kind of figure figure out, but Not not completely, you know, we don't really care about the sod We can definitely change it if that, you know, if it is an issue we we, you know, this was we We also have people who have pets at the hotel. So we wanted to keep a grassy area so they can take their pets out That's only reason we left out a little bit of grass area there But if if it's if it's an issue we can always remove it and just continue the same landscaping plan that we have on the Other lawn areas or current lawn areas. Yeah, I know the the points well taken about, you know, dogs and having amenities for folks and and things like that And now I see actually those four parking spaces are going to be In that center aisle. Is that right? Yes Yeah, okay. Yeah. Yeah, we're we're getting rid of majority of this sod. We're just keeping it right around the signage area So that's in there Yeah, they come in Gotcha Okay Yeah, we just I guess encourage encourage that frontage to kind of have the same treatment or And in terms of like the plant choices if there's something, you know, it's obviously up to you all But like something a bit more edgy or or fun, especially with The type of building that you have in the kind of harkening back to the 50s and that time But yeah, astro and sandman both did a Really good job with how they treated in flamingo as well In flamingo is up this air as well. So That's my only Comments I guess are questions Thank you Brett Eric no questions. Thanks Eric All right drew you're up My question would be for the applicant probably the architect um on the floor plans There are three windows shown on the north elevation and the east elevation But yet they are missing from the east elevation and the north elevation on the revised drawings They're on the second floor So they're showing the bathroom Looks like the bathroom and kind of maybe the kester in there They're missing You want a point here? You got it Yeah, so there's one window shown there in a bathroom. Nope not that one on the right side And then there's three windows shown there that are missing that are called out being filled Yeah Good afternoon. My name is josh divas and the architect on the project Those windows were removed as a part of the interior improvements The proposed layout of the guest room was revised And and so basically the facade was updated to match the function of the floor plan That's what i'm yeah, I mean the windows are shown in the floor plan, but not in the elevation I don't think I don't see how they affect the layout of the floor plan really I guess So that's why I was asking because they seem to be in spots that don't affect the layout So i'm wondering why they're being removed or being touched at all Can you because the sorry the reason why I ask is because the historic Architects report says something differently Right, it says you're not doing anything to the windows and yet your Plans say differently. So that's a critical because I guess my question the staff would be This isn't a sequel thing for us, but Kind of is kind of isn't Sorry, I've got like a stream of consciousness. I apologize We'll come back to the windows Yeah, I don't I don't think it is It's not a sequel issue per se, but it's a consideration for sure. So I think that I'm I guess my question would be back to you. I don't know if you got your answer That you were asking I'm sensing uh So, I mean it's we're not making a determination in the sense From an entitlement standpoint Granting an additional component. It's really just the use permit The design review component So there's no other action or element really Correct Well design review has a sequel component to it So we need to make sure that you're consistent with sequel and the approach we're taking is that it's exempt Because there's no impact to a resource the age does give it a component that requires a review Hence the report. So we need to make sure that what is in the report Is consistent with any actions that you take And so my question wasn't if I answered the question My question was did you get a your answer from the architect? No, okay So maybe if the could get back to them project architect wouldn't mind maybe Trying to respond to that question or maybe but do you need clarification disconnect between your plan set? the historic architects review Right, there's they're disconnected right now And then there's a disconnect within your plan set and I imagine you probably made a change at the last minute to the elevations Or something so what you're also saying though is that The corner water closet the corner glass Is actually there's no interior modifications that would prohibit The corner glass leaving it in place leaving it in place is not a compromise to the plan. It actually illuminates the room Correct. Yes. So I don't I don't see why you would need to remove The windows at all. So maybe you can address that And and from a graphic standpoint, could you pull up the sheet a6 and put it on the screen? Part of the plan set. I think that would help Yeah, if you have like an enlarged the enlarge second floor plan might help I think Right, Henry Yeah, it's in our package under It's one of the attachments Attachment number four plans page six Yeah, while the purring up could you guys talk to why you Why the change why the removal of the windows, etc So I believe that the window that you're talking about which was the one on the right hand side the big one that one On the plans would be actually right above where the I believe the toilet would sit so basically when the person's on the toilet They would have that huge Two foot by three foot window behind their head That's I think one of the that's I believe that's why we had Removed that window because it is in the bathroom And it is a big window And the fact that it was right above the toilet Chris and I how it might take us a moment to actually We're pulling it from a different file. So while we pull it up, we can kick it down the line here Sounds good. Henry questions Yeah for staff I'm curious in the in the sign ordinance. Is there is there something for restoration of historic signage or I know kind of how the sign ordinance reads is one square foot per lineal foot of frontage Is that is that the only hard fast way for an applicant? Working with a historic project And I'm kind of thinking back in my memory on stuff that we did at cutting town with a with a big cutting town sign And I'm sure astro motel. There's there that there's the big astro that's written vertically I'm sure that they're total sign package somewhat So I'm just wondering if there's an avenue for us to comment on Maybe making the gesture to the applicant that they do there some restoration on the signage on the fin in particular So I'm not aware of any specific Code regulation regarding historic signs for projects that are not in a historic district So it is the square footage that you mentioned as the standard Code requirement for signage. We do have a sign variance We modified that a few years ago to allow for more square footage in the findings to be based on design rather than land use findings Um the cutting town sign the The spinning sign that's actually a city landmark So even though it's not in an historic district that sign does have landmark status So that's why it's special and the only other time signs Come before the board and there's some um the board has some purview related to signs Is not necessarily the sign itself, but it's when the sign exceeds the height of the parapet or roof line of a building So then if the sign is on a fin or something like that Then what the board would have to say is that that is an architectural feature of the building And that that's an appropriate placement for the signs So other than that the designer view board doesn't have purview over signs. Thank you Or any questions for staff or the applicant I think I think we've um there's been questions given, but I don't really have anything to add right now to The proceedings. Okay. Thank you. Yep drew. We're back to you. We've got the floor plan up on the screen So I think what uh both Henry and I were looking at it are these two windows here This little guy here and then the the larger window in the front as well um So obviously these two windows would if kept or if removed I should say would remove all Glazing from this guest unit right And this window if removed would remove north glazing from the bathroom And this window if removed would you know affect the frontage on a senator's ave and I think we understand the fact that this is a large esk window Uh, but you could address You know the heini heider component if you will With frosted glass or something of that nature and still maintain the fenestration So does that make more sense the question? That we're asking Yes, okay Cool. Thank you drew And I have no questions So I'll again bring it back to the board for Oh public comment. Thank you At this time, I would like to open up this item for public comment Are there any members of the public wishing to comment on this item? Seeing none, I will close public comment Thank you for the reminder and now I'll bring it back to the board and we will talk about possibly considering a motion for approval with further discussion I like to make a motion approving the project with a caveat that The the historic nature of the building there's a fluted glass, which is quite beautiful. It's a kind of a rib glass And that is a way to blur images of people undressed I'd like to also have consideration because of the The excellence of the the signage in its original 1953 place with that fence It's what it's for I like consideration in the motion to look at that sign Maybe the led lighting or something but something handsome on the fin And forego the the sign on the ground You get to see from 19 blocks away the fin And I do have one other Item of consideration These columns if you go back to A4 Thank you Okay, A4 the north elevation There's a series of columns In front of that black door even kind of There's a kind of a teeter-tottery effect Of those columns flying right up into the under softening It seems like some kind of lentils and something structural To help Some horizontal whether it's nine inches or something but just a a return So that those columns appear to be more More fortified more More in line with with how the framing might work. It would be the returns on the face So it could be stucco, but Just considering that And That is my Motion I don't have anything right right now in the the whole concrete landscape situation because plans are limited here. I'm unacknowledging In consideration about these these planters and car stalls and What is going to be? Buffering bumpers and headlights from the sidewalk in the motions That that is a consideration In fact when the when the rain falls off the roof oftentimes these planters historically where the catcher creating early susan 42 So those are my considerations Okay, we've got a motion with some conditions. Do I hear a second second? Thank you, henry And Comments drew we'll start with you this time well Warren was going to say everything I was going to say Pretty much The one thing I would add because I just but is this little Chunk of missing Whatever the aluminum grills I think it'd be nice to Reinforce that corner with it And then here yeah, because it just kind of looks out of place because you're not doing it over here I mean if it was a deliberate kind of corner reveal on both sides and was balanced I think it would fit the Character a little bit more but here it just feels kind of empty and then back here as well To kind of round it out, but that would be It add the windows back fluted glass signage, I think the I like the LED light strip. I think it's kind of funky and cool. It's kind of like what astro did as well like Brett was saying So I think you know adding an actual travel lodge signage up here that was retro Would be really slick and then you can get rid of your kind of Not so impressive sign in the grass potentially Those are my comments Is and normally we ask the applicant like at the end when we go through our comments If any of them are feasible or whatever and we determine whether it's shall or consider like so it Shall as we make you do it consider is think about it if it works great if there's a budget issue You know that kind of thing so that's we normally work it out with you What works best for you so we'll do that at the end Thank you, drew Yeah, I I'm in support of the motion and obviously I seconded it but I I've got one Maybe it goes back to a question the applicant. It doesn't Sorry, the this is an expansion of the existing Entry element. Is that correct? Okay, good And I'd like to see this beefed up and either have a header element to it since you're expanding and working with it Anyway, I I see the existing photograph How that how you hit the header on that existing piece is Was some some fine trickery, but Since you're since you're reworking it. I'd like to see Some some thickness to That the columns are supporting the size of just a little teeny hat at the at that entry element Adding back in the glass I think it's really important. I I I found a a sweet Almost looks like a postcard, but it's a picture from the 1950s of the hotel as it existed and that fin I always thought that fin was was a parapet that that allowed this additional square footage to the building and it was just A a firewall So with no signage on it, it makes no sense to me architecturally I think the original design was always intended for that to be signage and and so I went on the internet Which is a great great tool these days To to find some history on it and was looking for the guy with the the bear and the long sleepy sleepy shirt Costume I thought that might have been what was in up there, but it it actually just says the script travel lodge on it So if there's a way to get that back, I think it'd be A nice nice retrofit to the project Those are my comments Thanks, Henry Warren further comments No Adam sure Thank you. I think so the presentation and the plans Yeah, I appreciate all of the considerations that you're doing with the building and the materials. I think that's uh I like the the update To the materials themselves I think it's a nice refresh of what's there, but still respecting What was there? Do you think that uh Henry's point about adding the signage would be really great? Could be you know to utilize what you've got I do have some concerns with the exterior treatment of the exterior of the building and the site itself it It uh, it Seems I mean, you know, I think us getting the landscape plan today at 11 30 It's potentially indicative of how you're thinking of the exterior and the site itself That it's kind of tacked on at the end there are a number of Design guidelines that we as a board are tasked with taking a look at And landscaping and site improvements and respecting the site are part of that as well um 3.3-5 Providing barriers to protect pedestrians throughout sites is a really important area You've got a nice crosswalk and going across the parking lot and that's good But a 3.3 point air dash 8 is providing buffers and trees for shade And trees are a very important part of With the city of Santa Rosa it really wants to have In their sites And in their general streetscapes Orchard parking is a great way to do that too. One of the things with the site is that you have this massive expense of The parking lot, which you know, I guess in some senses that respects the history of the site because there's travel lodge It's automotive and car centric but as Brett was mentioning with some of the Updates to other Sites and hotels around town. There are ways to rethink Treatments of sites than rather than just focusing on the building itself and maximizing the structure and Getting people in and out With their cars to actually wreath to use the site as a as a As an asset and to rethink that a bit So I think that some more thought could go into that you have the the the large central um courtyard I know you're um to definitely a concern or a thought to Think about some turf for dogs And people, you know, they're driving through and they have their pets That's definitely, you know a great way to to have an amenity for them Another of the design guidelines is to have no more than 40 of the landscape area the turf, um, which um, you know, we're taking out some of the turf. Um, I think you're helping that but uh This is one of those areas where if we had gotten a more complete landscape plan with actual You know, I do appreciate what was what was given the hand drawing is is great You know, you've got a you know a conceptual plan, but it is very conceptual Whereas we're supposed to be looking at, you know, you've got the Very definitive architectural plan, but then a very sketchy landscape plan if we have ways to actually if you To have to have more Complete plans and plan sets is a way to To talk about your design rationale and what you're trying to think and what the ideas you're trying to get across And so yeah, we don't know really what the square footage of the landscape area is the square footage of the Of the parking areas and I'm not really certain of what the square footage of the concrete planters is as well um, so with the site, um I uh, I I feel that um, one taking out the um The existing plants that you've got in front of the buildings, um would be, um Inadvisable, um and I think that the comments about Spiders and wasps definitely, you know concern, but that's more of a maintenance issue, um and choice of plants You can do You can have other treatments if you're having a problem with one certain plant or a treatment It's like kind of like if you have, you know Problem with with cleaning a wall covering or a carpet or something you can always switch out the material rethink what you're doing there rather than Concrete over everything it's introducing a lot of impermeable surface Um, I warn mentioned the the rain coming down. It actually is providing that Um that infiltration and the buffer. Um, and so I think that Uh, I would strongly recommend. Um, not concreting over those areas Because that then gets to more of our design guidelines of providing the buffers for us softening the streetscape There, uh, yeah, so um Providing special attention to the incorporation of trees and all landscape design There is only one tree on the site and this existing tree and there's not adding in any other ones Um Granted it is uh, you know, Santa Rosa Ave. It's pretty industrial along there and commercial But I think it's a missed opportunity that you could actually add some Enhancements to the streetscape going past and then bringing that into your site as well potentially, um, you know thinking of a way to breaking up the the parking orchard parking You know potentially some traffic islands that are in there or something to To break up this this massive expanse of of pavement thinking of multiple things of water infiltration Urban heat island effects. Um, this is A huge area where it's just a sink of solar heat that's coming in So that could potentially having some cover could decrease some of your heating or your cooling costs And also for people that have been on the road all day, so it's nice to Kind of get away from pavement and be around some natural amenity And so yeah, that that is guideline eight 4.1-2 where it's Breaking up large expenses of paving to visually separate masses of parked cars and to provide a shade canopy The those planting areas within um paved areas should be a minimum of five feet wide uh that last part is not there So, um, I think there's a You could add some um some tree canopy um to your plantings. Um, you know, I wouldn't uh, you know mask any of your your nice new Treatments to the building that you're doing um to your signage. Um, but uh Thinking about adding trees into here. Um Definitely doing over that count concreting over the plant the planting areas that you got, you know It's these small strips are the only ones you have, you know, might as well not get rid of them and do some creative rethinking of uh Of you know, some kind of plant material that you can do permeable surfaces, you know, you've got Landscape, I know coast does good work. They've they can definitely come up with some really innovative thoughtful ideas for you to think about that. So use them as a resource so, um I would I I would like to see um More softening of the streetscape and the paved areas and to be bringing in some of those design guidelines as well Thanks Thank you, adam Um, I think adam adam and warren said Things everything that I wanted to to say so I won't reiterate On a number of those I especially liked adam's comment about basically the enhancements coming from the street into the into the site as well and so on the And I know that you know, there's a additional six parking spaces It looks like in that existing lawn area out front and maybe Um, you know giving up a couple of those in favor of Um an additional, you know seeding area or something next to that tree like you talked about with the dogs and and things like that Doesn't have to be lawn. It could be a still a permeable surface like a decomposed granite or gravel that you could Take throughout the site and use as mulch as well um And I think um, yeah echo warren's comment again about the like the planting at the threshold I would hate to see that go and maybe that's just a a livening up or a sprucing up of that with contemporary plantings and evergreens that still provide that buffer um And then the only other thing I would add on the screening uh or add to the Landscape frontage is screening of the existing trash enclosure. Um, it looks like there's some plants You know planting plan already kind of around it, but chondropetalum is you know, it's three feet tall It's not You know really going to give you the the screening that you may want of a somewhat undesirable You know privacy fence, uh privacy slat fence enclosure And yeah, the my last comment would be just um, you know the approach I think uh with the River cobbles and kind of meandering things Things um, you know, it's great if they have a if they serve a function But maybe it's something that's a little, uh, you know, the the next approach is something that's a little more commercial and refined and not quite as You know residential and in character or or swoop or feel Given the kind of hard lines and edges of this of this architecture itself. So those are my those are my only comments Thank you Thank you bret Eric no comments Thank you, Eric I guess another question leading out of these comments that I've been hearing so This originally could have gone to the zoning administrator was elevated to the designer view board because of the historical context of the structure itself and Then we got a landscape plan late and we've got a you know a massive Um Very relevant landscape comments So we could start getting into well, gee, you know The trash enclosures supposed to have a roof on it and drainage and the hose bib and I mean I guess looking for some direction as to the parameter Of what we're looking at Yeah, that's a great question. We're actually just discussing this. I think what staff would hope is that the board um Could give some deference where it's appropriate to the applicant team to staff to implement those through conditions of approval Some of those can probably be standard conditions of approval Particularly given the fact that this normally would go at the minor level, which is a often a simpler packet They did agree to come here. It was at the direction of staff for the purposes that have been outlined So I think we would hope for some um way to work through these issues and resolve them here at this meeting All right I have a question Drew you're kind of in line with that. I think I think our brains might have been spinning the same wheel um I'm curious uh from the from the applicant From the comments that you heard from regarding landscape Do those feel to you like What that's being what is being asked is potentially cost prohibitive for you to even kind of address some of the other Elements that that we've kind of talked about today. Does that make sense? Yeah so I The ideas that were pitched forward as far as Changing what is and the existing like planters are the not covering it up with concrete and just keeping it away and changing the plans I actually Like that idea and that would be something that I consider and I don't see that being financially I think it might be actually better because the thing that I was thinking about is I think I think what we've asked kind of architecturally is Potentially a cost savings because you're not building a new wall. You're keeping the existing windows, right? and The thing that I kind of was scratching my head a little bit is I I understand The the parking component need but I understand where the the landscape architects down there coming from in terms of You add more per you know impervious paving you get more runoff etc. Etc. So I'm wondering if there's You know, you kind of horse trade a little bit, right? So you're no longer ripping up all your plants and filling them with concrete So there's a cost there that you're no longer incurring And then you're adding parking spaces which sounds like it's beneficial for your business model and for your clients to have The actual, you know, 31 spaces for 31 units or whatever, right? I think I counted There's 31 spaces now, but you've got two 80 a's and so Yeah, and you have to add another 80 so there's a lot kind of associated with that Could you take that, you know those six spaces and just do those in a pervious paving Kind of element that way we're not adding impervious asphalt. You're adding kind of impervious I don't know if there's a cost difference that something you may have to talk about But I think maybe we could give some Some direction consider perhaps to staff that way that gives you the flexibility to go back to your Your site concrete guy or, you know, your your site work guy and say, hey What's the cost difference between just flat out paving this Doing force about four spaces six spaces, you know, what if we do it this way? And then instead of trying to kind of really address the whole frontage You know because obviously when we look at this image from history, for instance, there weren't trees There weren't lots of large bushes and I think From a historical context element You're actually improving upon what was originally designed in the 50s in a way by doing a very small scale landscape element and um So that I think would be my kind of opinion is to kind of give you the flexibility as the owner to kind of Try to do as much as you can with kind of like probably the funds or the budget that you've developed And stay with it, you know, kind of keep the historical context But also kind of maybe try to check a couple other little boxes. Does that make sense? Okay, cool And then the only thing I would want to add a I'd want to add a condition that whenever this goes back to staff that uh landscape and uh architectural site plan need to match I don't think I don't even know if we have do you have a site plan other than the original Yeah Yeah, we do. It doesn't include the new spaces and stuff. So It just needs to all match up That way make it easy for staff to go to rubber stamp it for you Uh, and then my only other question to staff about how to handle the uh signage component above the Roof line Do we need to make a finding that the fin is an architectural element and therefore Signage would be appropriate. I think you said it accurately exactly Oh, and uh, chair fincaid, I believe the applicant maybe had a question regarding the signage earlier. So you had a question So originally you had proposed to add a sign to the fin, but remove the bottom sign It would it be okay if we kept the bottom sign and still were able to add a sign on top That's just the reason is is that Driving down the street. I always wanted to put a sign up there And it was always my idea too But I know at some points when you have larger trees down the street And other people signage coming in out into the way or and stuff It kind of blocks part of that. So that way the visibility would still be there Yeah, so back to what I mentioned earlier the purview that this board has is Only relative to the fin and if a sign were to go on that portion of the fin That's above the roof line or the parapet and the finding has to be That it is an architectural feature and actually while we're Talking i'm going to ask christened to find that language in the code for me so I can read that into the record It's an actual finding that has to be inserted. So we'll get that for you as far as the rest of the signs go That would be a purview of the board But I would alert the applicants to know that there are Sign requirements in terms of the height of the actual sign the square footage of the signage itself And so anything you propose would have to be reviewed against those They evaluated and as I mentioned there is a variance option for an exception and it is related to design But again, that would be something that's done at the staff level not here at the board I think for me regarding my comment about the sign in the planning area Is I just felt like hey if you're going to put it on the fin you can get rid of the smaller one But obviously it's I think the small one on the ground is up to you is what it sounds like to me I've got no preference one way there. It was more of a suggestion. Hey, if you got this nice one on the fin Get rid, you know get rid of the one on the ground And then my only other question to the board From a common perspective is we talked about signage up on the fin above the roof line And are we talking about it being on both sides? And Illuminated not illuminated I mean, I don't think we need to necessarily say it has to be illuminated or but I think if we don't want it illuminated we should say No illumination I think it would meet the The period to be illuminated personally with neon to match the or you know led or whatever I think it would match the period of when the building was built and It might have actually very well been Neon at the time in all honesty, so hard to tell from the photo here, but it probably would have been neon By floating letters That's just as tasteful the other that the true neon is a a real strike of a But at least back floating led is pretty inexpensive And both sides of the fin Yeah, and I think we could defer to your architect to determine what was, you know, the most cost-effective Uh solution for you if you wanted to back True kind of neon Like an old school neon sign I guess is it would have been on both sides of the fin too and I'd like to see it on both sides of the fin northbound and southbound Well, I think under Santa Rosa city code chapter 20-38 Is the description of all the signs and I'm not sure that our conversation is matching any of our of the codes For that in regards to elimination sign requirements, uh backs, etc So I would I would say it'd be staff. I would To look at that for the illumination Yeah, there's the illumination the size of the sign according to the building as well Is there the the sign the allowance for allowable signage it has to do with the building frontage Primary or primary and secondary frontage. There's a calculation. Uh, but as I mentioned, we I'd say routinely but We have done a number of sign variances when it's appropriate to have more square footage so there is a pathway to achieve that And uh, we pulled up the actual language from the code regarding a roof sign So I'll just read it into the record No signs will be installed upon against or directly above a roof or on top of or above the parapet of a building Exception if found by the design review board to qualify as an architectural element Designed in conjunction with the building architecture the provisions of this subsection shall not apply So what we would do is if the board pleases and would like to go this route give some Um discretion to the applicant to put a sign up above the parapet Then we would put this in as an additional finding indicating that that fin is an architectural feature and a sign Could be placed on that It would be my um It would be my inclination To do that and with the specific proviso that You know, we could maybe qualify it that the original you know design Had signage in that location. Therefore, it's somewhat historically relevant to Include the architectural feature in that location. I think I think that only bolsters bolsters the argument. Yeah And and and a comma and a little minor add to that is that it it's done in the same sort of script and the sort of The historical look of the travelodge not the not the bright blue and white So we Yeah, so what I would do is we should um ask the applicant sometimes script can be trademark can be logo So we want to make sure that that's something that's available to them or not So I saw that yes, the only thing is is that um Travelodge is now owned by a windham hotel group and they have actually just rolled out a new registered trademark With saying that travel watch by windham. So we actually have till the end of the year To abide by that where we have to actually change out our signage to reflect What their current logo is? Um, can you do that on the monument sign on the ground on lower and then let this be an architectural element? Which is what we're giving you the avenue to put that at I would definitely Talk to travelodge and you know, let them, you know, see what they say that uh, Basically allow allow me to do that. It would be I do it. I have no problem It's just I don't want them to say well, you can't do this anymore because According to our agreement that you have to follow these current signage agreements I'm wondering scott then if we maybe the signage component is really a consider not a shell Then gives them the flexibility to kind of pursue it With the direction that it is is this certain way to qualify as an architectural element And then if for whatever if windham comes down and slaps your hand and says no, you can't do this Then you can say well, okay. Well, I don't have to do it Per the conditions of approval and then the only thing that would be left would be the modification of your monument sign Which would go through the regular pathway, which is we're not purviewed to One other thought when we've done these in the past often what happens is this an applicant will Will present a proposal that shows where the sign will go And the board will have some idea of the Square footage proportionately how big that area will be does the board have any feedback on that because Like I've mentioned, they might come back and if all their signs in total exceed the square footage They would have to get a variance and I'm just concerned that the board is clearly giving some direction that there's a preference to see some Appropriately scaled and designed an appropriate scripted sign on the fin But I want to make sure that because it likely wouldn't come back to you that that sign wouldn't Be something that the board doesn't anticipate ultimately so Perhaps if there's a square footage A proportionate amount that the board thinks is appropriate that would provide staff and the applicant more direction going forward Do we have any any measurements of what the historic signage would be? I mean that can we can we reference the historic signage and say within the footprint of The Sir 1950s. Yeah, I think based on the information we have and the drawings and the Photograph that board member wakes brought in. I think we could get to a kind of a reasonable Proportionate area so that would be helpful. Okay. I'm going to try to Measure it in acrobat right now see if I can help you out I just googled the travel lodge by windham logo. It's very similar to travel lodge when it says by windham down below so That's the thing now that they want it to say by windham and has to say by windham Yeah, and and so my question to the board would be if it if it said travel lodge in in the architectural script ish Way and said by windham below it would that Throw it out the window as acceptable Because I think that that's where they'll go with you that's just my opinion. So I you know, I think there's a there's a desire from the board to have the signage above it and if you're going to keep the context of the original structure and the historical nature of it that You know, but it's modernized because it's things change I mean pretty much your your hands are tied to whatever windham says correct so when it comes to their logo they tell us the font the exact color and How much spacing needs to be around it? Everything is to the teeth for them and they basically give us A template of their logo and we have to use that for the all signages Any whether it's out of a business card or the building it has to be to their specifications because it's their logo It's somewhat of an oblique angle, but we pull it up. It's in the the street view. You can see the travel lodge sign As it is currently it doesn't say by windham, but I'm looking at the same google images It's essentially the it's a similar text in smaller font Just below travel lodge. It says by windham So the approximate square footage of the historic sign based on the Elevation is drawn by the architect appear to be eight feet by three feet that makes sense 24 square feet if I did my math right Yeah, so that'd be very helpful if the board would like or Would like a condition that Ask the applicant to consider a three by eight Area above the parapet on the fin that would be acceptable for a sign In this particular script that'd be that's a very clear direction for us and I I would I would Like to consider to use the script of the travel lodge from the fifties Just ask windham if that would be acceptable and then the b option would be to modernize that to The current travel lodge Did you say that they they are going back to a retro script by the end of the year? By the end of the year the current signage we have where it says just travel lodge Yeah, has to be changed to travel lodge with the by windham underneath It's the logo and everything stays the same. It's just going to have the words by windham underneath there I mean is there yeah Is it I think I mean because the The the sort of uh key components of the script are the t in the l Um, is there even a potential if Because I would rather see the the retro script than the modern script up above And so is there a way that would it would it I was going to say that uh, you know I would pitch it to them that hey, we want to go with the t and the l You know and still say travel lodge, but of course we're going to keep the by windham sign as a main illuminated sign Monuments line, but we're just going to go with the retro look at just for this the style and the Look of it. We're going to go with the retro stuff and that's what I would propose to the trademark thing And would that affect our Preference if it if it's just the t and the l elements rather than the full travel I think So my preference Yeah, is that I think using ret retro signage Is what makes it an architecturally significant element I agree if we put if you were to Do the modern travel lodge by windham logo. I don't think it's architecturally significant um from a historical standpoint now Obviously, I think Henry and I it sounds like if you're agreeing with me. I would prefer the full travel lodge the original 1950s logo And if for whatever reason that doesn't work Option b would be I think the t and the l and then if you can't get the retro thing to work with Windham, then I would just not do the signage because I think it would It it is no longer an architecturally significant element at that point So it's either go all the way go halfway if you can with the t and the l Or don't do it at all because at that point it's just more modern signage Which and it's not architecturally significant. It's it's like, you know slapping up a Sign on the highway kind of sort of with the modern signage I think what's unique about this is because the original building had that It's significant historically to how that fin was in operation at the time So that's what's significant about it. And that's why it gives you the opportunity to reinforce that as you kind of modernize and retro eyes your hotel To give it some more flair and I think that's that you know that it's nice that we have that ability to You know give you an exception To the no signage on a building above the parapet rule to kind of return it to its Former glory if you will Okay, I've got a number of items here. So go down the list and and so what I'm going to do is I'm going to Talk to the board about what items we feel should be Shall which would be incorporated into your plan and some things that would be considered and then after we're done with our part We'll say Is that workable for you? Okay So the items that I have as shall is shall keep the fenestration on the north and east two-story office element shall Keep the planting areas in front of the lodging units Those are the only two shells I have so the rest of them I have consider so chime in if you want them to be shells The only thing I would say on the window piece is uh I think to give the applicant flexibility, but also kind of respond to warren's comment Is shall keep windows in place replace glass with obscure glass preferably Period specific fluted But then that if they can't find the fluted it's too much money. It's whatever they could put a film on the glass and call it a day You know that just gives them the flexibility to try to find the right glass But also warren's direction in terms of the period specific glass. I think is relevant So we could add I think that's that's consistent with the motion that's on the table to that warren made right And and so how about if we break it up Into the second part of that is consider fluted glass relevant to the period Perfect You're gonna have to help me with this one warren consider returns at the column elements to Yeah, it'd be the it'd be the header consider Face and return warren can we get you on the microphone? I'm sorry. Okay. I got it considered Header and return elements at the columns on the canopy. Yes There was speaking of returns. There was the wrap around that. Yeah, I got that next Consider wrapping the northeast corner with the horizontal element and carry it to the west of the entry door I think that I think henry and I are both saying that should be a shell. It's fine with me Shall wrap the northeast corner with the horizontal element and carry it to the west of the entry door um consider Enhancing the landscape elements Consider tree plantings for shade canopies Consider seeding in the landscape elements Consider screening the trash enclosure with taller landscape elements Consider permeable areas in place of the new paving at the new parking spaces It's wide open and then Let's deal with the signage. So The board finds that in certain contexts the fin element And signage on it is Architectural in nature So I think what I was hearing is there's a specific dimensional area three by eight that Do you want to give a try drew? Yeah, you want me to give it a whirl here? On the signage I was going to hit three by eight and the t in the l and the in the script, but You sure by all means I was just going to say that to just to make it easy it consider The signage on the fin The board finds it to be architect historically architecturally significant. I think that's important historically architecturally significant Because that further reinforces the case and then you can do the bit about The signage the script and the whatever in the t in l you got that on both sides. Yeah, so The the element signage element itself Would be no more than three by eight feet And would have two options for the script that would we would find acceptable and and architecturally significant either full script for the 1950s era script for the photograph that architect Henry wicks and board member brought forth And if the full script is not acceptable Then the option b would be just the t and the l of travel lodge In the historical script and if neither of those are deemed acceptable by the Franchise ownership Then there would be no signage on the fin And the signage would carry on both sides of the fin if it's installed And it would be lit backlit preferably and it would be so I think Backlit I think would be appropriate backlit Warren had a term for it. Yes, you can just say illuminated. There's different ways to do that And the signage should be illuminated preferably backlit Hey miss anybody's Shells or considers We'll need a uh, yeah, we should make sure the applicants okay with it if they are friendly. You got okay Does the applicant find those shells and considers doable within your plan? Yes Thank you for your flexibility And we need a friendly amendment to the motion to add Set items I friendly amend the motion As chair concave so eloquently read Thank you chair waggle, uh, does the uh motion or accept the friendly amendment friendly amendment accepted Is the second accept the friendly amendment? I do excellent patty may have a roll call please Board members, um Sharon I cordon brock I Goldschlag I waggle I Wicks I Hedge path I think a I And thank you for improving the city. I think it's a great task ahead of you and and best of success and appreciate your flexibility Thank you Okay, let me get back to my agenda here Item number seven board member reports. Do we have any board member reports this evening? Seeing none. I bet item number eight is department reports. Do you have any department reports? Nothing in particular, but since I do have you all here I'm thinking it's been a while since we've had one of our get-togethers We got through the holidays and new years and so I'm wondering maybe a quick straw poll Maybe a show of hands is everyone up for that? If so we can start to look for I got everyone everyone 7-0 unanimous So maybe I'll start to look for a place We'll do it after one of our design review board meetings coming up Maybe when we don't have too long of an agenda So be on the lookout for that and maybe chair can get you and I can we can discuss further final location Sounds excellent What kind of heads up will we have for the date with that just Uh, we'll give you as much as possible, but it'll be probably it'll be after one of the DRB meetings Like I said a lighter agenda, but even before that agenda goes out I'll take a poll and see if we can find a place that's good for everyone. Yeah, that'd be great just to You know arrange childcare Thank you. Yeah And I wanted to thank the board as well for working through this item You know it was A different challenge than we normally face so thanks to the staff for elevating it and for the board working through it And getting something that was acceptable to the applicant. So thank you I would second that also This is very helpful and I appreciate the flexibilities particularly that this was a minor item that we decided to elevate So thank you and the comments were really helpful And with that we are adjourned