 Hey everyone, it's Leanne and earlier this week I had the great pleasure and honor of sitting down with my good friend Heather Reid at Planner Protect. It was a very casual chat. In fact, it came up a couple weeks ago when we were having a phone chat or maybe it was a Zoom meeting. And about 20 minutes into the conversation we both kind of said, you know, it would have been really great if we recorded this. And made it a public forum because we were getting into such great dialogue. So that's what prompted this chat earlier this week that first went live on my Facebook page. And now of course it's uploaded to YouTube and you can still find it over on Facebook. So it's an hour long chat with Heather Reid. She's delightful. She's got some incredible insights about where the industry is going, how we're feeling right now. And she's going to talk a little bit about her project, about chronicling some of the lessons that we've learned as we've gone through this uncertain time with rebookings and canceled meetings. So if you have an hour to kill, take a listen. I hope you enjoy. And if you'd like to see more tea time chats, let me know. Enjoy the video. Bye for now. Good. How are you, I'm glad that we're able to connect finally weeks since we were able to chat like this. And it has been actually it's been a few weeks some days feel like they've taken forever other days seem to fly. Yeah, I know I know I've been, I don't know about you but I'm just as busy now as I was before this all hit in fact my days are even busier. Like it's just I can't, I can't catch up like it's just keeps coming at me. So I am self inflicted busy at this point. Yeah, I would prefer to be busy I tend to be on or off, and I don't serve anyone well when I'm off. And so keeping busy is certainly been beneficial for me. But yeah, I, I, I know you and I've had a great conversation and just what you're doing with your work and yeah I can only imagine how busy you have been supporting your clients. And you know what they've been great. I can't say they've all been great in all transparency I do have some clients that are a bit more demanding than others, but they're stressed out too. And so I, so I understand I get it. They're, they're stressed out so I'm. You know what Heather I'm not sure if this is gone live. Is this green live on Facebook. Oh, that's awesome. Okay, there you go. Maybe the two of us. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no it's, they, they're all under stress they're all under pressure, and they're answering to their stakeholders, so I get it. I think the philosophy that Steven and I have taken which is always served as Wallace like to, you know, kill bees with honey or attract bees with honey whatever that is. And, and, you know, you'll get a lot further by being more empathetic to the other person situation and so that's been our keyword. The last couple months is empathy is, you know, what, what are, what is the other person going through, and we're trying to take that stance every time we respond or every time we ask someone of something is like what are they going through. They may not have answers because they're still waiting on board a director approval or they're waiting on the director of sales and marketing approval like there's so many layers on both sides that just trying to be empathetic is the best best policy Well, I don't think any of us have ever been here before. Right. Yeah, so it you know it's what I know the words are uncharted waters unprecedented all those words that you don't want to hear anymore but truly they are right there. One of us have been here before and, and, you know, if it was an isolated cancellation or a postponement, you know, or even a couple of them but this is the entire industry that has been put on a great big giant pause and how you handle that has, there's there's no, you know, instruction manual that comes with it and, and so, yeah, I, I am not luckily my large client for the year just scraped through at the end of February. We had 700 medical professionals in Victoria at the end of February, and that was just as you know there was certainly talk about it and some contingency plans and things like that but I just can't even fathom what planners and folks like yourself doing the site selection I can't even imagine what you've gone through. Well actually I can a little bit I mean, we're working on a project but it's just unbelievable the amount of work that has been invested by planners and by partners and things like that to unravel this ball of elastics. You know, you said something really interesting your end of February client was at least thinking about contingency plans. Yes, none of the clients that I have talked to really did that and and maybe I need better clients or maybe I don't know but when the hammer came down. I felt like everybody scrambled and they all scrambled on the exact same day. So what happened is our inboxes just got flooded on that day the Friday the Monday the Tuesday after the hammer came down about what do we do what do we do what do we do and it was like the first time they even considered the possibility that it would have to I had one client she's she's just adorable and she's so awesome. When the hammer came down, I call it that I don't know if anyone else is calling it that maybe it won't catch on I'm kind of hoping it does but when the hammer came down on March 12. My client was to start her citywide on the Sunday. And she emailed me, and I think within four hours, she had canceled everything she needed to cancel on her end I had canceled everything I needed to cancel on the hotel and, and it was done. Like she just went into cancel mode, but her her funniest story is like, well now what do I do I don't have any groceries in the house I was supposed to be on site all week. Like, I guess you got to go grocery shopping. Thank goodness for online ordering. So, it's interesting because, as you know, we've, you've been one of our interviewees but I'm working on this chronicling initiative to try and cry and capture some of the stories and I have to say there are groups that were aware of what was the potential impact of what was coming. The group that I referenced about their medical doctors association. And so they were very quite aware of what the possibilities were, and had we talked about everything from canceling and what the ramifications were for that. We talked about, you know, what were the onsite requirements for, you know, increased hand sanitizer and the venue where that we were at was doing a phenomenal job of just really stepping up their sanitation while we were on site. So, there were groups and actually we've heard of event hosts so whether they be association or corporate, who were actually planning. But I have to say your, many of them were caught in that, you know, like, oh my goodness. And not so much that they were caught without knowing what coven was, but just caught with the impact that was going to fall out because of the just the on off switch and off on March 12 when that pandemic was was announced it was it was almost like just shutting off the light switch. And so yeah it's been fascinating to hear and be a part of the experiences because those that had time and that had some maybe some foresight just because of the kind of clients that they had the medical clients the groups that were had international attendees. Some of the planners had been in airports that were starting to get that kind of eerie, empty kind of feel. And so there were some that just had some some lead time if you will. And, and they were differently prepared, they're not gonna say better prepared but differently prepared in how they were able to handle just the lights going out. So yes, it's interesting. I, I'm excited about your Chronicle study and although this time today isn't really to promote the Chronicle study but I want it to be about that too because Stephen and I are now looking at our client care strategy and before coven we had a client care strategy where meeting planners got notes every month to remind them of what's coming up or what should be coming up that month so you know at eight months out from the program you should start thinking about this this and that and here's what you need to get started blah blah blah. What I'm looking forward to about your Chronicles is able, I'm hoping to take some of the best practices and advice and the learnings from that and create a client care strategy that more centers on the risk mitigation piece. Because I think now I think everyone is very sensitive to it but what does that look like as we start planning our 2022 programs or 2023 programs. So that's what I'm looking forward to about the Chronicles is you're going to have those nuggets of wisdom in there that I'm really hoping to steal and say okay so I need to remind my client. At a year out that these are the things that they should start thinking about and being ahead of the curve versus what happened to most of us now is being playing a game of ketchup so I'm excited. I'm excited too. We've kept it's interesting because when I first, you know, was one of those ideas is how can I help right it's because I wasn't directly affected with my my business with having to cancel anything. I just I was like what can I do what how can I help and it was, it was just capturing I love the academic side of our industry and and probably why I love contracts but it just was a way of capturing and what I started out and what I thought the what they thought the end product would be would be best practices and I believe that there will be some best practices but I think if we've learned anything. And I must say that this, I'm now in partnership with Heidi Wilker, who has been an independent retired from blessed events was heard the name of her company. We have. We've learned that we've done 24 interviews. There are 24 different ways of doing the unraveling. So, one might expect you know that we'll see some consistency but I think there's, but but in every single interview without fail, there have been a couple of just great nuggets that you just kind of go. Wow. So if by the time we're done these 36 interviews if there are 36 golden nuggets that we can share, then I feel like, even though it may not be the definitive, you know, Bible of risk management on how to unravel, you know, an event. I think at least we'll give planners some reason to some things to consider. And, and the other thing is is that hopefully they consider it when they aren't in that situation, because I don't think there's any handbook that is ever going to help every planner in what they do. And I think it is a case by case by case situation of what are the priorities who are the stakeholders, you know, what are our obligations what are the other parties obligations how do they respond there's just so many things so it's it is truly. It is just been an enormous enormous privilege to sit and I constantly am just saying I'm in awe. I'm in awe. I need to find a new word for all, because it's just it's amazing and, and yeah, I just hope that we have a few more spots so there's a couple of you know a couple more people but we, it really is fascinating and so. Okay, so I heard you said you had a few more spots after the call today if you're still looking for people. I do have a couple clients that might be interested in sharing their story. So let's connect on those people after our call today. But as you were talking, I don't know why I thought of this but it would be interesting to find out. So I got a backup so I'm a, I'm a cmp but I've been a cmp for 10 years. So if you were to ask me what I learned in cmp I could not tell you it's been that long. But I'd be interested to hear from newer cmp or people going through the cmp program right now about what they're learning around risk mitigation and crisis management and stuff like that. Because it almost sounds like you've got 24 stories and they're all different. It sounds like maybe there isn't a handbook for this, maybe we all just made it up as we were going along and that's what you're chronicling now is, you know, how are people making this stuff up. I have to wonder if training in the future, whether it's cmp or the universities, whoever's offering credentials in our field, if this doesn't create a whole lot of content for people to have to learn. So next time it's not 24 different stories but there's actually some structure and there's actually some proceeds that people have to go to to get to the end result. I don't know. I'm just throwing it out there. I'd love to hear from people if they think that's going to happen. Yeah, it would be it would be interesting and I think if there was time on our side, then maybe a rule book would apply. But I think it's, it's interesting that, you know, when things had to happen so quickly in those first few days, particularly for the events that were really imminent. I think it was, you know, fly by the seat of your pants decide what the priorities are and just make it happen. And I think that's one of the resounding things is that planners and people like yourselves have just made it happen. And, and that's been remarkable. I think there's room for a structure to it I think if we were really pushed to shoved shoved push on it was what you said. But anyways, if we were really made to say okay was there an order, and then we had, you know, eight hours to sit with each planner. I suspect we would find that there are some consistencies. I know one of the, I know one consistency would be that it was about attendee communication and sponsor attend sponsor communication right away. Like, honestly, I think probably every one of them was that it was those were the priorities. And so there might be some bones to that that that, and I don't want to make any kind of speculation because what we're doing is we're just listening at this point, and we'll take the 36 transcripts and hide he's got kind of an analytical brain and I've got an analytical brain and I think we'll try and find what we can of those commonalities that, but then at the same time, every event is unique. And so maybe every risk management process needs to be slightly unique. Yeah, address, you know, it's just, it's fascinating as I just keep saying it's fascinating and I wish everyone had the front row seat that Heidi and I have had to the billions of our peers. Well, and that's you've obviously chosen people or they've approached you because they've had something to share that people can learn from which is awesome. But but you're right it does go to show how resilient and how people in our industry just turned their time and their talents into strengths as we were working through this and you know what scares me to is I'm I'm hopeful we don't lose some of that talent to other industries if our industry doesn't bounce back in time. I wonder if that's a real risk and listen I haven't talked to anybody that's thinking about changing industries where would they even go. I don't think we would lose all kinds of industries that are in trouble, but it would be a darn shame if we started to lose some of this talent, because our industry just can't can't afford that much talent anymore because of the nature of the meetings going forward I don't know. Yeah, and an insightful question and something to consider because it's true it's, I think there's actually when Heidi and I got started we said I think we can create a perfect avatar type of person that is drawn to this role. And it's because of the characteristics that that obviously these planners have demonstrated through this challenge and it would be ashamed to lose the just the professionalism, the brilliance the, and I would say it's on both sides that I really want to art articulate is that what we've heard is just the kindness and the empathy and the willingness to work together from both sides of the table both sides of the event host with the suppliers the partners, the venues, the AV companies the entertainers. It really has been remarkable to hear. We ask one of our questions is about, you know, has there been any negative pushback, and there might be an isolated, you know, situation is particularly early on when people were saying I'm not doing it because of optics or fear, rather than true force in this major situation. But I'm telling you, after a certain date, it was all about let's get through this together so yeah, I really have to your to your question though I really hope that those that have this desire to be in this industry have work to come back to. And you bring up a good segment of the industry, the sales people, whether it's AV sales, hotel sales, there's a skill that's transferable right so you could see some of those people move to other industries. And who knows what their reasons might be it could be surely they just need to get a job, which is fair, you need to support you and your family first and foremost. But secondly, they've been put through the ringer. I mean, I you and I think we were on the phone a lot during the early days. Those people trump us every every single time and that's not what they signed up for right they did not go into hotel sales to manage cancellations and watch their revenue disappear right because their salary and bonus are tied to the revenue that the meetings bring in so you know it's not what they signed up for. And so are we going to lose them to other industries which again is a shame, but it's certainly possible because there's lots of industries that and please don't get any great ideas hotel sales people because we want you but there's lots of we need you. Yeah, we need to. But there's some industries that were not affected and sales to such a transferable skill that they could potentially get another like that, depending on where you're located right so yeah I just I you're I think we're going to start to see that. You know, I've heard some of the furloughed sales people are going back to the office and working for the property or the destination which is great but not all of them. It's not a matter of weeks or months where those people are just like forget it, I can't wait. This is ridiculous right. No, and that must be so hard I I can't even begin to imagine I can try to understand and empathize but I cannot imagine having that rug literally just pulled out from underneath and if you're doing what you love every day to have that missing in your life must be devastating. Maybe that you know a couple of weeks of it might be a nice break because I think our industry lived at such a pace that was probably not sustainable for a lot of people. When I look and I hear and see posts that say, I'm seeing my family again. Well, you know what that's not a bad thing. But yet, livelihoods that is a bad thing when you lose your livelihood. That just must be crushing. And I think actually we've also heard survivors guilt. So there are those in our industry who are, you know, feeling guilty for having jobs when are really our loved ones and I mean that respectfully our loved ones who we work alongside every day are without jobs and don't know when they're going to have jobs again. And that's very real too is that survivor guilty. That's how someone else coined it. And I'm like, Oh, that is so true because really even those of us that are working now may not be working if this industry doesn't come back online in six months or eight months or 10 months. You know, who knows what further cuts will be made. So yeah, it's a complicated, complicated time. Oh, I love that one about survivors guilt because then those people downplay their true talents because they don't want to brag or have an ego around why they're still standing and someone else is let go. So, so like our entire talent pool has just been like squashed right like everyone. Nobody learn anything right we just don't need to be on the same playing field and it's just. Yeah, that's that too right it is. Yeah, you raise an interesting comment about enjoying this time because I'm like you I've actually quite. I've found the blessing in in the in the circumstance and one of the biggest things for our family is we have two very active boys who play sports. Yes, one of my boys, he's still young enough he plays multiple sports. So when all those ended. And he's a he's a pretty driven kid so he's found other activities were not worried about him. But the restrictions are starting to get lifted. And one of his hockey coaches emailed us on the weekend and said hey we've got some ice time. Does no one want to come out. And my husband and I were like, I know I just kind of want to sit on my lawn chair in the backyard and we've gotten so used to this new life where we're not running our kids all over town. And now when the invitations are and it's going to happen for baseball soon you know it right like and if your kid plays soccer that's coming first. I'm, we're kind of comfortable. I'm going to have to wake myself up, fill my car with gas, and get back out there with my kids and I'm just not sure. Yeah, maybe that maybe that will be that that people are more judicious and selective with what they do with their time and that's not a bad thing at. Particularly I feel for young families I know I had the privilege of being able to work from home for all of the years that my kids were were growing up and they're gone they're raised. But even that I had flexibility because I had a home based business I was able to parents that are like, I look at our industry who so many of our of our colleagues travel. How many multiple weeks of the year, and then carry that full threshold of work at home and, you know, want their kids to have everything I feel for what where parents were at. And maybe that is a silver lining coming out of this is that maybe kids will realize they were perhaps over programmed and, and, you know, maybe they will want to take a little bit slower pace of life that. Yeah, I'm glad I'm not making those choices and. Yeah, I feel well and good luck to your son because it will depend on each kid to right like it depends on how driven and how motivated how, you know how much of a pace he wants for himself and it. Yeah, it well you're right it's very true he's always been the one to drive the the bus on this and so if he wants to go yeah we're going. But he's all also fallen into this great routine of trying new activities. So he's the kind of kid that is busy no matter what and but he's now he's busy with other stuff and so it'll be interesting to see now. So let go of some of these new hobbies he's created to go back to his old life of hockey practice followed by baseball practice, you know, followed by basketball practice and then we go home and grab a quick bite to eat before we do it all over again so. Well, we'll see what happens so but yeah I don't know if you saw in the background my husband got up we've been we're really lucky. I'm, I'm really lucky because I travel a lot for work as you do Heather as well and we see each other out and about. Sean works from home and always has worked from home so when I'm away for travel for work, the boys have him to lean on. So this is affected I think Sean more than so than anything because he carried the Brent of kind of the household management. And now that's what switched is we're kind of playing a little bit of role reversal now his work is still full time so he's in technology and they've ramped up versus slow down. And because I've you know technically kind of slowed down we've kind of done a bit of a role reversal where I'm now the primary get the kids to their things. He has a job at superstore so he's got to go to work so I'm the one who's doing that so Sean can work, as opposed to before where he would take the time to get the kids to places so I could work and travel and yada yada yada so. There might be some appreciation of each other's roles. So there's been a lot of appreciation over here. Well, my husband retired. January 17. And so then we were out. We took off on the 18th to go west. And that was the last kind of thing that are one of the last things and then I went to Victoria for a week for the conference at the end of February and I have to say it's an adjustment and all of a sudden, he's gone because of retirement but then but he's home because of COVID and I have always been a home based entrepreneur and so I've realized in all of this that the phrase I'm a people person. It's like okay I need more than just one person in my environment. I am not a person person I am definitely a people person. Yeah, it's been interesting to, you know, for the adjustment to, you know, for he was at home in the first few weeks were kind of cool and exciting and now it's just like okay yeah we're home 24 seven so I don't know what he'll do with his time when this lifts that he has yet to discover truly actually what he will do with his time so it's going to adjust so. Yeah, that's interesting you're right this was going to be his time of like self exploration. All he's doing is cleaning closets and there you go. Poor guy. Yeah, well this time it challenges even the best of us introverts. I'm an introvert. I'm a self professed introvert I'll tell anyone I'm an introvert, but I need to get out like I need to see my friends I need to see people in the industry. And so we've been doing backyard get togethers with our friends. At first it was just the girls so there was four of us girls who we get together at four different corners of the yard. We ended up to six people to get together in BC so we did that on the weekend. And I mean it was great right we all have a yard that can support six people sitting apart from one another but yeah it's the groups right it's the groups of 50 people 100 people. Will we ever see a go west again will we ever do a rendezvous in a bar ever again like those are questions that neither you and I can answer. Everybody seems to say it's when a vaccine has been developed. And yet, you know how long does it take to do a vaccine and we'll have people people have short term memories. Although, you know, I think we said the same things when stars happen we said the same things with 911 with, you know, yeah, all of those things people won't travel people won't do things and yet we find ourselves coming back together. I think we need all the time because we need that connection we need to feed off of someone else's energy, just to restore our own, whether we're introverts or extroverts I think probably all of us are hardwired for some level of connection. Yeah connection and ideas, right whether you get ideas from a group of 50 or a group of two, there's always knowledge sharing and so you're right it's got to happen in some way shape or form. So are you an introvert or an extrovert. I am, and I am an introvert that is, is, what's the word is there like an ambivert or something like that I think there's a high or omnivert something like that. I don't know. Oh yeah that's maybe why I'm getting confused you're right it's not omnivert it's omnivores. I, I very much am. I need my, I need my quiet time that's how I refuel, but I don't need a lot of quiet time I very much am an extrovert when it comes to I thrive on being with people. And the irony was always that I had a home based office and I was home, I've been home based office since 1994. So long, I know, long before it was even fashionable or cool to do. And yeah, I'm very much fed by being with people, although I very much hit a wall, where I then go, it's time to retreat and I'm done. So I wouldn't say that I'm a full on extrovert. Okay, there are elements of me that's very much. Nope, I need to get out of here I need to be by myself. I need to and you're right I need to find the word for it because I think I'm that too which is. I think it is ambivert or omnivert. Yeah, or something like that. Maybe weird. Yeah, I should know what the word is but how are you finding zoom meetings with a lot of people on them. Well, let's say it's a zoom with 10 or 12 people. So I relayed this, this observation the other day, I've been a member of PCMA. MPI can step for years so MPI is the latest one that I joined, and because of where I'm geographically located which is London, and the closest chapter is Toronto. So for a lunch and learn, for example, is an entire day commitment. And so I haven't participated in in person meetings. And yet, in the last seven, eight weeks, I have taken full advantage of every single call possible. And I've met more people my, and I wouldn't say my network because I haven't met them in person I haven't shaken their hand I haven't, but just the awareness of who is out there and, and, you know, what they might be like. It is just blown up the, the, the world of professionals that I am aware of. It's very cool. Now that being said, I, I find it flat, I find it's, it's nice, but it's not the same you can't. I find, you know, looking at at the screen all day long draining I find, you know, you check yourself and I don't care what I look like when I'm talking to someone that's not what I'm focused on but I find myself very narcissistically looking at the screen and I look okay, like that sort of thing is very draining. And, and I also find it. I don't know, there's something more chaotic about having discussions on zoom, because it's just not the same sense of when someone is going to speak and when they're not going to speak and when you could step forward and maybe, you know, and that leaning in I find that much harder to have, you know, a group discussion, even though we can have more people, I just, I don't find it as enticing to have, I find myself listening, and then, you know, kind of waiting for the big pregnant pause to then jump in because I don't feel like that. So, yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, it's, I've had the exact same experience and as an introvert. I'm waiting waiting waiting for my chance to jump in. So then I'm an introvert waiting for my chance to jump in and then I'm the polite Canadian waiting for my chance to jump in. I end up not saying anything because I just, and, and I'm so overwhelmed by literally all the voices in my head right now, people talking over one another. Yeah, and they're, and they're literally in your head, wearing a headset, and I feel like I'm like, I'm going to go paranoid, like I don't even know what's real and what's imaginary anymore. And so I, I, to your point, I find them extremely draining. And whereas if I was in a room with this exact same 10 people, it wouldn't be draining it would be energizing. And, and I would feed better off of those ideas. But yeah, I'm, what are they calling it now zoomed out or zoom fatigue, zoom fatigue. Thank you. Yeah, I have a lot of fatigue, especially with those big groups. The small groups like these ones are easy and I and I do I feel like you and I could be chatting over a dining room table. It's just you and me and in its cash. But yeah, when you're dressed, like when I'm putting on my makeup for a seven o'clock meeting. And in the past, you know, I didn't ever put on makeup because I was never on zoom I only put on makeup when I traveled. Oh my gosh, I need to go shopping for makeup apparently. So let me ask you, I, what are you seeing in. Are you seeing any new business coming up with any approaches of new I've done a couple of contract reviews the last few weeks and just wondering what are you seeing what's your pulse on things. Yeah, it's, it's great question because it is such a mixed bag I find so Steven and I, some of our clients are looking to future contracts in fact Steven just had six contracts for futures from one client come in today which was phenomenal. Yeah, well that's great news, but that's only one of all of our clients and the rest of the clients are still playing that wait and see game. So a lot of our clients in fact I have a client who was interested in doing a four year contract with one brand of hotels so different locations coast to coast for the next four years. Screech halt stop. Nope, we're, we're reevaluating that entire piece of business now so so there's two extremes we've got the one client who's going six contracts signed clickety boo and the one client who's like we might be insolvent so I can't sign anything. And then everything in between. But having said that and this. So last week was our conference our conference direct conference we were supposed to be in Vegas. That's now postponed to August hopefully going to Vegas in August. So last week they pivoted, sorry. The new word is shifted. Shift and pivot. To a virtual meeting, different content, but similar. We still had the partnering with the suppliers and did the one on one so different content. But some similar elements. Anyways, to make a long story short, a lot of the content was associate driven so people like me who have success stories about growing their business. And there were so many stories of associates who were growing their business during this time. And so I'm, I'm texting Steven through all this and I'm like, why are we not growing our business. What are we doing wrong. But listen, it, our business could grow tomorrow and then I'd have to eat crow for saying that today so everything changes on a day to day basis. But we are seeing a lot of CD associates grow business throughout this mess, whether it's current clients signing future contracts or they're getting brand new clients from referrals of their existing clients. So I'm just going to ask you, do you think with what has transpired do you think event host of all kinds of walks of corporate association. Do you think they'll look for more trusted advisors, because I think the DIY approach may have not worked as well as one would think. And we heard have to give a shout out to speaker spotlight who put on a great webinar this week with Ron tight. Who's phenomenal speaker and he was talking about, you know, just an industry that reinvented itself and it was about travel agents and when travel agents when the technology came out that we could all DIY tell reservation making our travel booking whatever we could right because the platforms were there to do it ourselves. It was, you know, oh well, the travel agents going to you know not exist any longer there's no role for it. And yet, the travel agents through this have been absolutely indispensable. They have fought for their clients they have you know, all of that kind of stuff and, and he was saying about just moving and doing a trusted advisor. And I just wonder if there's hope for site selection such as yourself for conference direct for, for people that have niche expertise. If there's that trusted advisor of people will say I don't want to find myself in that situation again. And, you know, not having solid counsel. Anyways, I just wondered if you thought yeah, be something. It's definitely what our company believes for sure. And yes, I'm very, very hopeful that Steven and I will start to grow business with with different clientele after this. Maybe because maybe they're looking for a trusted advisor but they may be losing manpower internally to do it. Right so with again with everyone getting laid off or with groups or companies having to downsize in one way shape or form. They now lack the time to do it. And so that's that's I guess the biggest one of the bigger benefits we bring to our clients is we're trying to give them some time back so that they can be more strategic in their work as a meeting planner, and to log down with the details and the nitty gritty of having to do sourcing and put proposals together and spreadsheets and this and that so we're hopeful you're right that they, they can, we see business from companies that see the value and having an outsourced extension of their existing team. And that's what I've always thought about you know like they secure the very best AV fit they secure the very best speaker fit they secure the very best venue fit they secure like, and so that whole, you know, I think if there's an opportunity for planners is to find that niche market and to really is it specialized I don't know like it to me specialization is is important and yet maybe it will be that you are the jack of all trades to be able to be flexible and nimble to respond to whatever is needed I don't know but I wonder if, if event hosts will be more cautious in and seek out more resources in what they're doing so. You know, keep me up at night. Yeah, well, but that and that's, and that's what I think that I love about our industry is we're always. We're like now going back to the omnivores and the omnivores we are amphibians we're always changing right we're changing our value proposition, how I manage my business insight selection 13 years ago is completely different to how I manage it today. So I'm still lucky enough to be in site selection 10 years from now it'll look different yet again whether that's driven by the economy driven by client demand driven by my skills and what I can bring to the table yeah so you know I think our industry is always going to be changing. I think that's the kind of person I think if Heidi and I have seen, it's that adaptable person that person willing to, to tap into, you know, who they are and what they're about and draw on that but yet be adaptable and shift and respond. I think that's one thing that we have definitely seen in how planners have responded to this time is, is they've taken what has come at them and, you know, breathe, breathe, breathe, breathe that's a common response. So as planners what should you do just breathe, you know, take take time to see the bigger picture, and then adapt and be flexible and not, you know there's not one way to do something and I think that that skill set that inherent skill set that people that are drawn to this industry have, I think, hopefully will play out and serve them well so. So the book I'm reading right now, again, not coven related but it certainly is poignant during this uncertain time I'm reading Seth Godin's Lynch pin. Are you, are you a Seth Godin girl. No, I haven't know. I love him I want to adopt him he's just, I mean he's, he's bigger than all of us put together. Yeah, he's a marketing guru. Okay, anyways, brilliant mind brilliant mind. Anyway, Lynch pin talks about not being the robot but being the person that it's not even creating change of course I can't think of it because it's Seth who thinks of these things not me but I think our industry is full of Lynch pins and full of people who make themselves indispensable by going against what's written in the manual and doing something outside of the box or whatever, whatever phrase you want to use and they, they push the boundaries or they create something new and etc so on and it's those planners, it's those hotel sales people, the Lynch pins the indispensable people. But the ones who don't change this could be unfortunately not a great time for them because as our industry shrinks a little bit we could end up losing those who aren't willing to change. Like I said the hotel sales job people they just wanted to write contracts and move on and write contracts and move on and unless you're willing to adapt right now that's that's not the hotel sales managers future right from here on in it's a lot of diplomacy a lot of advocacy. And if you're not wired that way, you're, you're in trouble as a for the willingness to change how you're wired. The willingness to and maybe the direction because maybe you just don't know if that's what you've been trained to do and that's your role and you know how do you do. So for myself, there's lots of things that I look back on the last 25 years of being in the industry and I, and it's because of coaching or because of, you know, other people taking the time to show me a different way or maybe even a better way. And it's the willingness I think to to change so hopefully those folks that are maybe in an obsolete kind of find themselves that way will will hopefully have the bandwidth to say I want to change. Yeah, and, and, yeah, I don't know. Hopefully, and I'm hopeful that the brands and the corporations that hire, whether it's a sales manager or even a meeting planner. I hope they recognize that that change is a good thing and that change will benefit their organization and corporation and not try and stick those people again back into that robot model of doing things because the robot model has now changed. So I'm hopeful that organizations don't expect those people to go back to doing what they always did because they won't be successful. I knew I know you've had far more of a front line to that than I have because you the volume of contracts that you look at in the interaction. I'm I'm a step removed from that in what I do for clients because I don't interface directly with the sales but yeah I can only imagine when I was when I was sourcing venues for planning clients I certainly I would often say I just don't know how you do it I just don't know how you do it day in day out. I had such respect for, you know, yeah I was frustrating sometimes I'm not going to you know rose colored glasses here it was, you know it could be frustrating but yet at the same time could not even fathom what some of them the pressure that was on that particular role just to make sales and to be out there and to be doing it and to be, you know, grinding it. I just I'm like oh my God I don't know how you do it or why you choose it it wasn't for me but it's why I do hope that they have a different work environment to go back to that maybe has some more balance and maybe some more respect for for what they did and the business that they put in the bums that they did put in the beds. Yeah, I don't know it's not going to be me I'm telling you I'm never going to that side. I will retire alongside my husband before I go back out into into that kind of, you know, daily kind of grinding because it just it never was me. But I certainly feel for people that that did that role because I just couldn't I couldn't have done it. I just admire how they kept it up. Well I'm my, and then again this is pre pre the hammer and pre coven. My, I guess, selling philosophy has always been about relational selling and that's really where my blog started is. Okay, I had enough experience with these people and enough best practices and enough groaners that I could put together content to show other hotel sales managers. How planners respond to hotel sales managers and that's really the premise of my blog is these are things that I will respond to you for and these are things that I just will not. I just don't hear you. And, and I think now post coven it's going to get even more interesting about what what they're doing to get our attention and what they're doing to provide value. Over all the other sales managers who are doing almost the exact same thing they've always done, not a word of a lie and it's not a lot of Canadian sales managers I can tell you that but I get emails almost daily from hotel from hotels, giving me the capacities of their ballroom. That's post coven sales hotel sales email. Hey, here's the capacity of our ballroom, and it's just like. Yeah, that's just that's just not. Yeah, I certainly can see that that well actually I get an email blast once a week and it's a hotel review and it's meant for hotel years I signed up many, many years ago. And it is interesting that there's just no, there doesn't seem to be a sensitivity to what needs to be read or heard or seen right now. They talk about the guest culture that, you know, the company culture there's things about, you know, guest experience It's like, okay, are you tone deaf? Yeah, I've actually read a couple of the headlines to my husband saying, oh my God, I can't believe that they're sending out and this is to hotel years themselves it's meant for, because I'm always looking at any angle on contracts obviously, you know, and what are they talking about so that I can be because for warned is for armed. And I just, I feel for like it didn't seem to change. And maybe, and I'm not, you know, I don't get many of them but it just didn't seem to be responsive to the situation that we're currently in or, or even empathetic or thoughtful. And that's where I think you and I have to wonder what what training, will they get going forward, what is that going to look like, if it's going to look the same, or do you expect the same result like for people now coming into the hotel sales industry or even I guess even the event planner industry, like the chain, the training has to change this. It doesn't be the same old same old. No, I was gonna, I was gonna say, I think on the flip side I think there's training that could happen on our planner side. I'm in those of us that are, because I know that and I'm guilty I'll put my hand up where you know, you would say hey I need this like next week and suppliers partners would bend over backwards to accommodate. And then because of client issues or whatever or you get busy, then you don't ghost them for three weeks. I'm so guilty and I apologize to anyone watching this that I did that too. But I think there's, I think there's a benefit to both sides really saying we have an opportunity to establish a new kind of relationship that works for both. You know the spray and pray that planners used to do and not ever taking the time to make it fit or to make it even close to being a good fit. It's just you know spray pray and we'll get whatever responses we can. That's not fair either so I think there's room for both sides to maybe just say this has been a big pause for us to really look at how we move forward that is respectful of both, you know the workloads and the and the requirements and the obligations and the responsibilities on both sides to say how can we reinvent this. I know the conference theme for PCMA we had in January we were talking about breaking barriers and one of the things that we were talking about is we need to bust up how we're working together and how do we make it so that it's a great experience when we walk away from one another. And you know what does one side need and what do I need and you know how do we how do we make that work so it will be very different. Yeah, I'm while I'm that's the one event I'm I'm hoping still hangs on right like and I know and I know it's all up in the air and no one can expect it to hang on and no one can be surprised if it canceled but I'm, I am so cautiously optimistic that that one's still moving forward. Well, I think we all have to have optimism right I mean it'd be a sad sad day if we lose that because I think it's it. Yeah, but again, I'm being on the inside it's difficult decisions because there's just so much it's, it's not just desire right it's not it's not just the desire to have the industry come back it's the the economics of it it's the viability of those that we expect so much of from the attendees the sponsors there. There's just so many considerations and nobody has a crystal ball as to, you know, is a is six months from now going to be viable is 16 months from now going to be viable. And so, yeah, difficult decisions that you make in isolation with the best information you have and make the best decision you can and say well, that's, you know, what we're going to live with so yeah, yeah, I can't wait. Someone was saying that the first industry event, it's going to be like a full body assault because people are just because we are a hugging group right. It's going to come together and it's going to be full full body slams like it's not just going to be a light hug it's going to be oh my God I haven't seen you in so long and, you know, I can't wait for that day. And well and that's the thing is funny because we were we were even talking about this the other day my husband and I about Italy, and they, they're struggling with this covert thing like nobody's business and, and my husband said well it's culturally. They do the double kiss. Yeah, what's going to happen when I see Lynn from Quebec City, like because we always do the double kiss or read just right and it's like, you know, the, all of our Quebec friends that's how we expressed. Yeah, I love you and I miss you is gave him a hug and you did the double kiss but will we go back to that will they go back to that that's that's actually the bigger question. Yeah, are they going to be like yeah no let's just curtsy. Okay, so now we're going to curtsy to everybody. I know back in February, back in February it was you know like no handshakes and, but it's just awkward right it's whatever we adapt next is going to be awkward for quite a long time because everything we do is so habitual right like a handshake or our hug is so habitual but yet, we probably can adapt that might be something a little bit safer and a little bit less, you know, contact but yeah it's going to be awkward for a while. And trust, right, if you won't shake my hand, I don't trust you anymore, and at least that was the body language before this right yeah yeah the way we shook hands or the way we hugged each other indicated a level of trust and a level of, you know, professional intimacy. So how do we know now how do we make how do we gauge how do we measure. I don't know we're going to have to wink at one another or something. I guess maybe that's it. Yeah, but it has to be a subtle winky can't be like a wink or else. Yeah, there's so many different kinds of winks. I can't see doing that wink to you know Robert Thompson or who I love it a door but you know like hey, I don't know. Oh, I don't envy anybody. No, yeah. You know, I am grateful for zoom because you're on the other side of the country and we can connect and yeah, it's very cool. Yeah. Yeah, this was fun this was fun I'm almost out of tea though which which is well this lasted this is an hour long tea mug apparently there you go. And I don't drink tea so I'm not going to tell you what is in my mug but I haven't taken a sip so I'm still in good spirits an hour. Yeah, yeah, I actually hot water because I was freezing beforehand actually hot water but yeah. You know, we we had a great conversation a telephone conversation what what three four weeks ago and said what can we do you know what can we bring to the table and this has just been delightful. And I can't even imagine I keep trying to think there's a Facebook world out there that might be listening and it's like okay who cares, because I have just thoroughly enjoyed having you seemingly to myself. Oh my gosh, so I have to read this to you Heather said that I looked at the Facebook live. So whoever just joined our Facebook live feed we're almost done but thank you for we have six people. You are never going to guess who one of the six is our beautiful friend Lynn from Quebec city. She says she says you guys are too funny I agree with Heather we will be clanging to each other. Yes. I look back and we'll put on you know, disinfected from head to toe but you know I honestly, I know there's a lot of negative and I look at a lot of it and I, you know, but I really truly am an optimist at heart and I believe that that we will come and will be together again, it how it is they change. And I think anyone that has children I think that's a message to give your children right is that that you know this to shall pass yes it might be different, but this will pass and you'll be fine. And I think that's just a message we need to remind ourselves of is that this to shall pass, we will be fine, it may be different. Love that. Yeah, you know, like, I think we'll adjust because we want, I think we want to be together. And I think that, you know, and, and if it's not in a professional capacity, I think there's so many people in this industry that want to be together just because they are. They want to be together as people, not because they're together as professionals. And I think that's cool to so. Oh, you just end things on such a lovely note. That's good advice for everybody, you're right, not just you and me, but for kids for older people for everybody, so I love it. I love it. I love you. It's so I love you too. And I may hug you when I see you even if I'm not allowed so there you go. Well, you know what we could do. You were at PCMA last year. Do you remember Christa and I going butt to butt. I mean, you're not exchanging anything there. And if I can do it on a stage in front of anybody, maybe Christa and I were just ahead of our time. Really literally. I got a picture of that. So maybe we just were revolutionary and we didn't even know it right maybe we'll just go up and back up to everybody so. I'm going to butt kiss you then the next time I see you. Well, you'll know you met something then. Thank you, Leanne. Oh, no. Thank you. And maybe we should do this again. We'll see if Lynn let's do this again. That would be very, very cool. All right. So take care of yourself. Stay safe. Stay well. Miss you a lot. See you soon. Bye, Heather.