 Thank you for keeping us company and if you just tuned in, this is why 254 discussion Monday where tonight we are focusing on the office of the Inspector General of Police and we remember just last week we saw President Uhuru Kenyatta appoint Hilary Mutyambay to the office of Inspector of General of Police and now we want to see what will this man be doing once in office with me in studio is Anaklet Don and Gonjiri Karyuki both are political analysts we will be having a quite a nosome discussion tonight and just to bring to your attention or to acknowledge the office of the IG is established under article 254 of the Kenya's constitution and section 8 of the National Police Act number 11 of 2011 and constitutionally the IG holds the overall and independent command of the entire National Police Service and now my first question gentleman is do you support the appointment of Hilary Mutyambay to the office of the IG? Karyuki Hilary thank you and good evening to the viewers of course the appointment of let me begin by first congratulating the former Inspector General Jay Boynett and the Inspector General has served his statutory roles and leadership roles to the best of his ability and I think as a nation we have been able to see changes in the wake of what has been happening in the country we have had so many threats we have also heard the reforms in the National Police Service which we'll be looking at actually yes then let me anchor also the unveiling of Mr Hilary Mutyambay as of advantage to Kenyans because he brings a lot of expertise in areas of antterrorism as well as what is called security management and operational management which have been able to see he acquired in the United Kingdom so that one tells you that he is fit for the job so all right I would precisely affirm the president's choice and as you can see it seems that the president has a lot of confidence in people from the National Intelligence Service of course citing examples like the Director of Public Prosecutions Nudin Haji the ASCC CEO Mr Tualib Mbarak so that one gives you an idea that the president has a lot of faith in the National Intelligence Service so I support all right don't you support briefly to begin with I think I'd want to first start by congratulating Hilary before I even talk about the Homa Haji I really think that Hilary brings a lot of experience it's part of the I just say the position but again I'm also taking of the opportunity to really wish well they would go in Haji Mr Boynett also congratulating him for your current appointment but I really think that President Kenyatta the appointment of Hilary by the president could not have come at a better time we know that the nation just came over last in this January from the district attacks and actually we really still the nation is still shaking in terms of the information with terror and whatever so I really think that yeah the president really taken away from all right so the objectives of the National Police Service one of them is to strive for the highest standards of professionalism among its members now would you say for the last four years when we had Joseph Boynett they are going would you say the police forces have displayed the professionalism in them and say yes but with the pinch of salt when we have seen a lot of action from the police to begin with the positives we've seen the actions even when we had terrorism activities in 2013 just this year is still fresh in our minds the police took an active stage they really did a good amount of work but actually I would also wish to question my thoughts on the same going by a lot of complaints on police brutality harassment of the general public and the runaway corruption especially when it comes to traffic police I really think that if I was to rate and say Mr Boynett's work is at 40 percent all right gojiri what would you say about the office of the IG for the last four years in terms of professionalism and discipline among the members of the forces to begin with Hilary Lemmy start from where we began and the establishment of the national police service you remember that under the new constitution the past the past IG was Mr David Kimayu who later resigned and to answer your question while we hail and acknowledge and appreciate the efforts that have been made by the inspector general of police former we cannot ignore the challenges that have been there in the police service yes the inspector general of police has been able to trickle his authority down and trying to compel discipline among the police force and I hope now it is going to change to a police service as it has always been dreamed but again this is not to mean that the national police service has not had its own challenges you have had cases of the police service being accused of extra judicial killings you have had cases of the police service being accused of corruption so we acknowledge that yes the IG has been able to move the national police service from where it was formally when IG came I resigned I agree that to move forward and now with the incoming Mr Hilalemutiyabai he will be able to take over and as we said issues of community policing issues of border patrol issues of administrative functions and etc etc all right now another objective of the police national police service that is is to prevent corruption and promote and practice transparency and accountability we have had issues and stories of how police especially the traffic and even the crime unit where you talk to Kedogama when the station and the other one is Utalalandani these things have continued now do you think the incoming IG will make sure there will not be such cases and if there is because this will not change overnight there there has to be some transition now don't you think the incoming will be able to trim down this thing uh yes I I think I really want to take a key note when Mr Hilalemutiyabai prerends himself before the parliament approval committee I really wish to listen to how it want to tackle especially the issue of discipline when it comes to corruption by the forces themselves it's going to be a challenge we have to admit that it's going to be a very huge challenge for Mr Hilalemutiyabai but I also still believe that if we can instill integrity uh when once we do the recruitment during the trainings and I'm I'm still very confident in Mr Hilalemutiyabai going by the work he has done as the deputy director the counterterrorism unit going by the numerous trainings the guy has I really trust that he is able his ability in dealing with the forces cannot be matched but again we need to admit the fact that uh when it comes to matters to do with the corruption matters to do in self integrity this trickles down to an individual and generally not the forces as per se so I really believe that we need to instill this discipline starting from when we recruit the forces we need to tell them what to do and again we need to speed up prostitution and civil administration of cases that we have in court spending especially when it comes to administrative police all right we will look at the police reforms but before then gonduri another objective of the police national police service is to train their staff to the highest possible standards of competence and integrity and most of all respect to human rights and fundamental freedoms we have seen how our police behaved during the election that is 2017 and even before then we have seen how they behave with uh the public during demonstrations and we've we're talking about the police brutality uh we have had cases of murder abduction and murder which you actually mentioned uh earlier as we began our in discussion tonight and then we have had cases when they go to court there we hear there was no evidence so we are wondering what is happening to uh our DCI unit or why would they prosecute someone if they don't have enough evidence so would you say the police or the office of the IG the incoming IG will ensure the integrity and the competence that has been laid will be seen to the letter well one of the efforts that has been made by the outgoing IG Mr Jay Boynett is to restructure the training and educational let me call it educational in this context the training architecture of the police remember he has tried to reform that and as you alluded competence is of importance even with the with the rise of new laws in the country so the police must cease to be looked at as a liability to Muwananchi and that one comes brings to the fore the issues of the police being trained to be uh pro friendly to the to the to the general public Gen Mr Mutiyabai the already appointed IG has a lot of tasks to do right in fact as he takes over from Boynett one of the issues that I expect him to make sure is implemented is the issue of community policing a situation whereby a citizen will be comfortable to share information with the police and even the the the the issue of taking police to estates is also of great importance because that is where now we start uh conversing between citizens and the police so I believe Mr Hilali Mutiyabai having gotten a lot of training from Israel and the United Kingdom in operational and security management as well as and terrorism education I believe that he will bring his knowledge and he'll be able to coordinate all this just to complement this we don't really need to forget that they are the structural and organizational reforms that were announced by President Kenyatta just last year so as Hilali gets into office he really needs to start by implementing the structural and organizational reforms we just saw the abolition of the OCPD the OCS from the the stations we we had I think the AP is merged with the police system so I really think that before we even magnify the the the task of the job that he has at hand we need to start by looking at the structural reforms even before we go deep into the integrity issues with the police I really think that the reforms that are coming in are really coming in at the very right time especially for the police force when it comes to police brutality do you think the I poor and the the office of the IG for the last maybe four years do you think they have been working in a good relation because we have seen police being protected and also the public us being saved you were on the wrong yeah let's be honest because this is a honest conversation well we have seen efforts even from I poor to make independent investigations sometimes and this is of human nature we see people trying to protect their own I would not uh and the right to the fact that the police service the national police service has at times claimed that the police are never involved in what we accused of yes they deny and deny and deny and so we have seen efforts yes but again let us be honest the I poor has and and you know the police has all the mechanisms to either hide evidence or be open right so I poor has tried to do their job but we have had some cover up in the police service without even mentioning cases so we must have an honest we have we must have an honest conversation and agree that human beings sometimes tend to be dishonest and this is a they are not justified to do so but they do it but they do it all right let's finalize with the police reforms that were mentioned towards the last the last days of last year and now for the last four years the national police service has been on trajectory reforms and has undergone tremendous changes in improving service delivery to Kenyans and one of them was equipping the police unit with vehicles and equipment that they need to ensure they deal with the modern crimes one the other thing was about them now the health insurance we had the housing allowances commuter allowances among others now these goodies that have been brought brought to the police unit or the service do you think it one it's one of the things that you make our police now be reformed and ensure if assuming if they are getting 50,000 and you go with them with a package of 20 trying to corrupt them they will be honest enough and say no you are in the wrong and I'm booking you do you think we will have a unit that will be so sure that no corruption will take place because I have money I'm being paid well by my government should I be corrupt to begin with I'll still go back to the original statement I began this discussion with I really think that when it comes to integrity corruption matters this are normally based on somebody's psychology what the level of discipline within which you want to treat as a human being secondly I'd wish to say that with the reforms that the structure the both the structure and the organizational reforms that are coming up with the police service soon if well implemented they'll bring one thing they'll boost the morale of the officers this guy is undergo a lot of issues out here even before we come back to what happens with them within the trainings they get a lot of issues and normally every human being needs to be motivated so I think that when it comes to the welfare of the police it would be great that their welfare is well taken care of all right yeah so the reforms are good and I think they'll at least add some value in service you respond to that because it is said they will be coming to stay with us in our estates it's a proposal how do you feel living with the police officer next door yeah of course I would be very comfortable because I know that I'm secure in my area of residence but again let's tackle it from the perspective that they are going to be facilitated and you know in the estates the kind of livelihood that is there would not allow them to live to the standards of a human being comparing their salaries to the demands of making a livelihood that is indeed human are you think they are paid poorly yeah yeah right now yeah sure yeah of course right now they are they are paid poorly yeah yeah the police and that really brought the corruption is on the road yeah yeah and again I would wish that the incoming inspector general of police Mr. Hirali would start a conversation and ignite a renewed effort to make sure that they begin with SRC because this is where the problem is if a policeman is getting 20,000 for example or 30,000 that is just a constant way let them be given house allowances right that can be able and you remember these people also have families so I tend to imagine those ones that will come and live in towns right the kind of livelihood that they are subjected to community policing will be of great importance and I would I would actually support it because that one will bring the issue of cohesion between Kenyans and the police and this one now will bring the issue of citizens being comfortable to share any information that is of threat to the national security so I think that it is a good thing and the police ought to be motivated in a very nice way because they are the ones who protect us they should I would have loved us to continue the conversation but unfortunately we are out of time many things for coming gentlemen and sharing your opinion coming up next is Waimasha Riki and you want to stay tuned and know who will be their host tonight they have been my guest Donna Nakulit and Karyuki Ngunjuri I will be seeing you on sports of Friday so keep it why to fight for my name is Dereva Hillary have a good night thank you so much