 John Reese and I'm running the campaign here in London. We've got a spectacularly good panel for you this evening and we're running it in a slightly different format. We've adopted the Lightning Talks format. Our guests will give you five minutes each of their thoughts on the Julian Assange case and what should happen next. You're welcome to comment on that in the chat function if you'd like and then we're out and we can continue this discussion in other forum. Just to update those who haven't been following this, Julian Assange is still in Belmarsh Prison. The 11th of April will mark two years that he's been detained in that maximum security facility. That's despite the fact that earlier this year, the magistrates court in London decided that he shouldn't face extradition. They turned down the United States request for him to be extradited on the basis that he would be at risk to his health, indeed a suicide risk, if he were put into the American prison system. The United States are appealing that decision and at the moment we're waiting for Julian's lawyers to submit their final defense arguments before the judge makes up her mind after the April the 6th, whether or not there will be an appeal and when an appeal will be. So that's where we are in the case. I won't detain you any longer. As I say, we've got a terrific panel and the first person who's going to talk to you is Claire Daly. She's a member of the European Parliament for the Dublin constituency. She recently made an absolutely spectacular intervention in the European Parliament in defence of Julian Assange and she's going to talk to us now. On April 11th, Julian will be two years in prison. April 5th is the 11th anniversary of WikiLeaks' release of the collateral murder video exposing war crimes. There are plenty of anniversaries to keep in mind. Later this year, the so-called War on Terror will turn 20 years old. The War on Terror was a lie. It exploited the thousands of tragic deaths on 9-11 to justify Bush and Blair's criminal enterprise of war abroad and to attack and dismantle civil liberties and human rights at home. Only a few days ago, it was the 18th anniversary of the beginning of the Iraq War. Those of us who saw Western governments launch the Iraq War also saw the establishment press and the broadcasters cheer them on and viciously attack the majority of people who knew that it was wrong. None of the ringleaders ever went to prison for the deaths of over a million people, the torture, suffering and chaos that came about because of their actions. We watched them get away with it and the fact that they got away with it damaged the fabric of our societies is undermined the rule of law. It harmed democracy. We saw people at the highest level of power to criminal acts despite everyone opposing them and suffer no consequences. It made us feel powerless and our societies feel broken and corrupt. So when WikiLeaks came along in 2010, it wasn't just any old scandal in the press. The press had failed to expose this scandal. This was bigger than that. It was a huge democratic event. It was an example of someone using journalism to try and put all of that right again, to address injustice. It was very powerful and it made us feel powerful because it provided the cold heart evidence for what everybody already knew that there was something filthy and rotten and criminal at the very top of our societies. And when that happened, it was obvious that there would be a crackdown. 10 years on that crackdown is in full swing made possible because of Bush and Blair's attack on civil liberties. Tony Blair's extradition treaty was designed to remove safeguards for people accused of terrorism. Now those safeguards are gone and it's being used to extradite a journalist for doing journalism. The ongoing detention of Julian Assange is obviously cruel and punitive. He has suffered enough and should not be facing these legal difficulties. But even allowing that he has to deal with them, he doesn't need to be imprisoned. He should at least be able to face this from his home with the support of the people who love him. But it's not just that Julian is being punished personally. We also have to consider the public effects of this spectacle. Remember how inspiring WikiLeaks publications were? The charges against Julian are intended to be a counter example to that. We talk about the chilling effect of this case as if it's something in the future if Julian doesn't win. But that's not true. The chilling effect is now. For two years now, the most famous journalist in the world has been imprisoned in the UK. It might have been possible during the seven years he was arbitrarily detained in the embassy for people to pretend that it wasn't about his journalism, but that's simply not possible anymore. The most famous journalist in the world is in prison, not in Saudi Arabia, not in Russia, not in China, but in Britain. And the message is clear. If you follow Julian's example, you're finished. Our governments have lost interest in the so-called war on terror. Their new obsession is reviving the Cold War for a new century. Here in Brussels, the escalation against China and Russia is being used to drive billions of euros into weapons spending. The same is going on all over the West. And of course, just like the weapons, propaganda and lies are proliferating too. 10 years ago, at an anti-war rally in Trafalgar Square, Julian said to the crowd, if wars can be started with lies, peace can be started with truth. At a time like this, we need journalists like Julian Assange more than ever. We need brave, principled people who are ready to stand up to lies, to tell the truth to the public and to oppose the mad rush to war. We need those people not to be scared that they face several lifetimes in prison for criticizing the powerful, but rather emboldened by the knowledge that they live in a society where telling the truth will always be protected. That's why this is so important for everyone, that Julian wins this case once and for all. That's why Julian's victory in the courtroom in January is such a beacon of hope. And that's why all of us, as his supporters, should take hope on that victory and renew our campaign to set him free again. Well, that was Claire Daly. Terrific contribution from her. My thanks to her for sending that over to us. Now I'm gonna move on to our next guest. It's been my pleasure to introduce John Kuriyaku before on DEA broadcast. And I can assure you for those who haven't heard him, that he is an authoritative and informative voice on this question. He was a former CIA operative and the man who exposed torture and waterboarding by the agency. John, it's great pleasure to have you with us. You have five minutes and you have the floor now. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here because it's so important for us to educate the public on the challenges that Julian faces, especially here in the United States. Maybe challenges is the wrong word because the situation here is grim in the US prison system. The US prison system is divided into four levels of security, minimum security work camps, low security prisons, medium security prisons and maximum security penitentiaries. Because of Julian's fame or infamy, depending on your point of view, he would likely be placed in a maximum security penitentiary. Even if he's not, he would then be placed in a medium security prison but in something called a special administrative management unit, a SAM unit. SAM units mean that the person has access to the media, which believe me, to the US Justice Department is a very dangerous thing. So the challenges that Julian would face would be primarily solitary confinement. Solitary confinement and a lack of any access to the outside world. And I mean a lack of access to his own attorneys, a lack of access to his family and friends. He would have no contact with the outside world. Worse than that though is solitary confinement. In May of 2016, the New York Times published an expose on solitary confinement in the US prison system. And they found that it's a gross violation of the guidelines issued by the United Nations. The situation is so desperate that some prisoners have taken to doing things like smashing windows and eating glass just so they can be taken to a hospital on the outside and have human contact for the first time in sometimes years. The United Nations says that any stay in solitary confinement more than 15 consecutive days is a form of torture. It's a form of cruel and unusual punishment. Here in the United States, we have prisoners in solitary confinement for as long as 44 years. 44 years with no human contact. Now imagine being in a two by three meter concrete cell with a steel bed, a steel sink and toilet and that's it. You're allowed to shower twice a week. If you're lucky, and I think Julian wouldn't be in the United States, you're allowed to make one phone call a month but only to your attorney. And in the event that you have mail, there is a screen mounted to the ceiling in your cell out of reach so you can't damage it. You receive a letter and they'll put the text of the letter on the screen. You have five minutes to read it and then they take it down and it's gone forever. You eat your meals in your cell. There's a small slit in the steel door. The guards will open it, slide in a cardboard tray with some food on it and then close it. And even those guards won't speak to you. A Bureau of Prisons psychologist once told me that 85% of US federal prisoners have some sort of mental or emotional disability. Usually it's antisocial personality disorder. Couple that with year upon year of solitary confinement and it is absolutely impossible for even a sane person to maintain his sanity. Now, the thing that we have going for us right now is that the judge as bad as the text of her decision otherwise was acknowledged the fact that the US prison system has these issues, that they have, that there's a serious issue with the use of solitary confinement as a form of punishment. And there's a precedent in both the UK courts and in the European Court of Human Rights to not send prisoners to the United States simply because of solitary confinement. The Federal Bureau of Prisons will never promise anybody that it won't put Julian in solitary confinement. This is what we have to go for us. It's what we have for Julian and we have to keep up the fight. Thank you very much for having me. John, that was a remarkable testimony and I thank you for it. I think it's very, very important that the audience in this country and globally knows exactly what Julian would face worry extradited into the American prison system and you've given us a five minute account which I personally found chilling and I hope that others will understand the severity and difficulty that Julian would face worry extradited. So thank you very much for that. Thank you so much for having me. Our next guest is Peter Obon. Peter is a long standing journalist who's worked for the Daily Telegraph and has political editor of The Spectator. He's got a new book out called The Assault on Truth which looks at the culture of deceit that's epitomized by Donald Trump and Boris Johnson. Peter, I hope the book's going well. Thank you for your courage in standing up and talking about these issues. The floor is yours. Yeah, I'm just very struck by that quote of Julian Assange's that we were being reminded of by Claire Daly that we'll start with lies and peace can begin with truth. It's so applicable and it's so much a reminder of why everybody here, we're all here tonight. I mean, two, by the way, two phenomenal contributions. John Kiriaki, what an insight into the US what awaits Julian Assange if he goes to the United States. And that's for Claire Daly. Can we have her as T-shirt called President of Ireland? Actually, can we have her here? Can we have her in British five minutes, please? She was glorious, absolutely phenomenal. Now, I mean, the first thing, why on earth is Julian Assange in detention? It's absolutely grotesque in these degraded conditions and the injustice of it stinks. The British government, I'm a political correspondent and if you pay attention, day after day after day, the British Foreign Office tells you how much they support journalism and free journalism, how much they support human rights. This is what Britain does. It's a new campaign actually saying how much we're going about the place making the world a better place. And there are various examples of the stinking hypocrisy of this. One of them very contemporary and of the moment is of course the British complicity in the ghastly horror of Yemen. But another one is the case of Julian Assange who has done so much to bring to public notice to reveal the dark secrets of the war on terror. He's broken more stories of great importance than every other journalist in the world put together in the last 10, 15 years, where he leads half. Stories about the terrible crimes committed by Western governments. Stories which we all need about things which we all need to confront not just as governments but as individuals and as versus because we're all morally involved in these things which have been, these acts which have been carried out on our behalf. And I want to speak briefly now as a British journalist. And journalism is supposed to be a noble trade which holds government to account, holds power to account, exposes wrongdoing. And on that basis, Mr. Assange has performed remarkably well. I think he gets, we can all say that he gets 11 out of 10 for journalism when you look at the noble principles which underlie our profession. And I find that I can count on the fingers of one hand, mainstream British journalists who have actually bothered to stand up for him and realize what is at stake. If Mr. Assange is extradited. In fact, this is an attack on truth. It's an attack on journalism. He's been basically the only one you boil it down. He's in jail for journalism. He's charged with the crime of real journalism rather than the creation of fabrications and complicity with government lies which is the way so many of my colleagues see their daily role. I'm going to end on a note of hope. I think it's not just what John Kariakko was saying which gives us grounds for help. IE that they won't send him to the United States when in the current circumstances. I actually think that if you look at the trial as it was conducted at the start of this year, there were so many abuses. And I'm saying this in hope but also I do have a residual faith in British justice. There were so many abuses of the legal system of due process. So many instances of terrible unfanness in the reporting. Sorry, in the way that trial that was it was it was hearing. I think it was technically wasn't it? That hearing was carried out that I don't think that when it gets to the Supreme Court, it can hold. I don't mean simply about the judgment. I mean the judgments about journalism about the rejection of all the defense arguments were so were based on such bad law. I don't say this because I'm a legal expert because but I have spoken to legal experts who followed the case. I do recommend people read James Dolman's accounts of the court reporter or Craig Murray's sort of literary genius really accounts of the court case. And I but I'm hopeful that the British Supreme Court will actually do something rather wonderful. And Mr. Assange, Julian Assange will be able to walk away a free man and he can't. Something has gone terribly wrong with this country. Peter, thank you very, very much for that contribution. Really do appreciate it. Moving on though, Sammy Ramadani is an old colleague of mine. It's a great pleasure to have him here speaking out for Julian Assange. He's an author. He's an academic. He's a member of Iraqi Democrats against the occupation part of the anti-war movement. And indeed he's a veteran of the anti-war movement and there's no one better placed to speak about what the effect of WikiLeaks, especially the material relating to the Iraq war, which is at the center of the American case for extradition. What exactly that means? So Sammy Ramadani, the floor is yours for five minutes. Thank you very much, John, for that introduction. I'll start by saying that it is really, really ironic that Julian Assange is languishing in jail for telling the truth, for exposing war crimes, while the war criminals themselves who committed those same crimes are walking the streets, free to walk the streets. And not only that, but they are fated and honored on our TV stations and media as great statesmen. I'm talking about the likes of Bush and Blair and other Western leaders who had a hand in the war of aggression on Iraq. While Julian Assange is in there practically being tortured according to the United Nations human rights reporter, on human rights, and he is being made an example for exposing those war crimes. No journalist is supposed to expose the truth or to expose powerful people's crimes. And as far as Iraq and the Iraqi people are concerned, there is definitely a debt of honor to pay to Julian Assange. Obviously, as John said, we were part of the anti-war movement and the anti-war movement did its best to expose those crimes and listen to the Iraqi people and communicated Iraqi people's opinions of those war crimes firsthand sometimes, but the larger media, the mass media were not exposing the truth and they were doing as much as possible to suppress what the anti-war movement was saying and telling the world about those crimes until Julian Assange exposed those crimes in a big way. It played a big role in making those truths that the Iraqi people were saying that the anti-war movement here in Britain and across the world were saying. It provided the solid proof, the evidence that the Western media cannot deny. There was footage, video footage showing the murder of Reuter journalists of innocent Iraqis. That was a seminal moment in trying to get the world to see clearly without any shadow of doubt that what was happening in Iraq was a war crime of major proportions that hundreds of thousands of people eventually died in Iraq. More than a million people, before that it was half a million during the years of sanctions, 13 years of sanctions, all in the name of overthrowing a dictator and in the name of finding WMD, which was the biggest lie of all. It was a major crime of the 21st century, the biggest crime so far at least. They have the dishonor of having that title of committing it. And they have a great dishonor in keeping Assange in jail. And it's the duty of all honorable journalists to defend Assange. If they don't stand by Assange, they are betraying their own profession. It means they have no pride in it. It means they have no dignity in working day in, day out and calling themselves journalists if they don't stand up for the truth. Because that's all what Assange has done is telling the truth. It might have been the greatest scoops of journalism in this century, but still it was exposing simple facts. They were simple in the way they were told, in the way they were communicated and they were published, but they were of great historic importance, that they were truths that had to be told. And journalists, especially here in Britain, in the United States, in Australia, in Spain, in all those countries that sanctioned that war, journalists in those countries, especially in the United States and here in Britain, and in Australia because he's an Australian citizen should be using all their waking hours to defend this honorable man, to defend him and to release him from jail so that he goes free to publish more truths. This is the honor of being a journalist and not to do that, not to defend Assange, not to call for his freedom is really a betrayal of their profession. And we should press on and accelerate our work and increase its volume until Assange is free. Sammy, thank you so much for that contribution. And I think it's interesting now that, and Julian always makes this point to me when I was able to visit him before the lockdown, that the tide is turning in this case and that very many of the mainstream media who ignored it for a long period of time are now taking a different view. It seems to have occurred to them a little bit too late, perhaps, but occurred to them nevertheless that there's something very, very serious for all journalists at stake here. So we now find the Times, Telegraph, Daily Mail, Guardian, all running editorials or important opinion pieces backing Assange. But that wouldn't have happened unless people had campaigned for long before that. And unless on social media, journalists had taken to the tools that they had available to them to make sure that this case was heard as broadly as possible. And that's why it's a great pleasure to welcome as our final lightning speaker, Taylor Hoodak. She's a journalist and an editor who's reported extensively on the Assange case from the beginning for the German based media team at Activism TV. Taylor, I see you every single time. There's a hearing the case. Congratulations for your coverage. You have the floor. Thank you, John. And I want to thank the DEA campaign for hosting these events. And it's a pleasure to be here speaking with you all. I do want to begin by reiterating a very important point that WikiLeaks editor-in-chief, Kristin Rafferensen addressed a year ago. This was just days before the first part of the extradition hearings began. And that is that whatever one's passion is or cause is, whether that's animal rights, privacy and anti-censorship or anti-war, your ability to fight for the cause that means so much to you will be impacted by the outcome of this case. Now, fast forward to several months later in September of 2020, we're about halfway through the extradition proceedings. And I was speaking with Kristin Rafferensen. Once again, I was interviewing him and he made the same points, but he put it in simpler terms. And he said, all of our fundamental rights are at stake here. And while we all of course know that and have known that for some time now, after hearing the testimony for so many weeks, you really, really felt that, I can tell you. And the truth is that Julian Assange's fate will have serious impacts on journalism for years to come. And it will also impact the public's right to know. Now, being that this is the most consequential press freedom case of our modern era, ironically, journalists and NGO observers had an extremely difficult time covering this case. This has been discussed before. Now, the majority of us were granted permission to cover the case via a video link. There were of course technical difficulties with that. Only a few individuals could be physically present in the courtroom. So we did have to rely on this video link. And at times I could tell you, it was very difficult to hear witnesses and to really cover this case maybe as best as we would like to just because it was so difficult to connect and to hear what was being said in the courtroom. But what's more is the fact that professional NGO observers whose job it is to defend and to promote freedom of information and freedom of the press and to protect vulnerable journalists, they were prevented from even being given access to the video link or be present in the courtroom. They really had to fight to get their way in and to cover and monitor this case. And in fact, RSFS Rebecca Vincent who has been monitoring this case for some time now, she said that she has never experienced this level of difficulty monitoring a case anywhere. And we are talking about the Western world we are talking about in the UK. So we must ask ourselves, why is this happening? And why is the UK judiciary trying to keep a dark shadow over this case? The public has a right to oversee what is happening in the court. And we heard very powerful testimony from a number of defense witnesses about how WikiLeaks publications and revelations were used in cases of torture and even show to the world the true gravity of the wars that the US has waged in the Middle East. It is also important to remember too that this work has earned Julian Assange numerous journalism awards. Kristin Raffertyn also said that in 2010 which of course was the year of the publication of the war logs and collateral murder. This was a watershed moment in journalism history, yet it is this very reason that Julian Assange is sitting in one of the worst prisons in the UK right now. And again, we must ask ourselves, what does this say about what we value in our culture? Assange's situation is of course extremely serious not only because of the broader press implications here, but also because of the personal aspect and the things that have been personally done to him. And not many people can truly understand what he is experiencing right now. But one individual who can is Lori Love, a British citizen who successfully fought extradition from the UK to the United States. Following the conclusion of the extradition hearings I interviewed Lori and he said something to me that really stood out and I will never forget. He said that the process can be the punishment. And that is precisely what we are seeing happening here. That has been made especially clear with the judge's recent decision to not grant Assange bail despite the fact that she blocked the extradition request. Now, before I do give my final statement I also want to raise awareness of another case. And that is a former UK ambassador turned writer and historian Craig Murray who was a defender of WikiLeaks and Julian Assange and also a friend of Julian Assange. Craig is facing a possible two years in prison in Scotland for his reporting and articles that he posted to his personal website. This is yet another case that is a threat to free speech and press freedoms. Craig has done tremendous service to the public and has stood up for human rights and it's now our time that we stand up for him and we support him. I want to end with a message that came from Edward Snowden. This is a series of statements that he gave at an activism Munich event back in 2017. He said that we cannot just only rely on elected leaders to solve our problems. Real change begins with you. It begins with me. It begins with everyone at this panel. It begins with the founders of the DEA campaign and those hosting this event. It begins with all of us. And lastly, we must remember that the actions we choose to take today can impact Julian Assange's tomorrow. And if we do keep that in mind and if we do collectively work together we can impact Julian Assange's situation. We will save his life and we will ensure freedom of speech and freedom of press throughout the world. Thank you. Taylor, thank you very, very much for that overview the salient and important points that are at stake in the Assange case. And let me just reinforce those remarks about Craig Murray. Craig Murray has done extraordinary work in reporting the Assange case. He's been there throughout for us and we very much encourage you to be there for him as well. Well, we've hit the half hour mark. The lightning had struck not once but five times. So congratulations to my panelists tonight. That was a very, very powerful overview of the issues involved in the Assange case. So let me just remind you you can follow all of the panelists tonight on their Twitter feed. I do encourage you to do that to follow the work of Claire Daly, the member of the European Parliament for Dublin of John Kiriaku, who has himself, of course, suffered a two year prison sentence for revealing the truth about waterboarding and torture in the CIA. Peter O'Born, as I said, has a new book out. You could do yourself a favor by getting a copy of the Assault on Truth and Peter's writing is very often found on the Middle East Eye website. So they would give that a look. Sammy Ramadani frequently writes for the Stop the War Coalition and Taylor Hoodac can be found at Activism TV. My thanks to you all. Do follow the DEA Twitter and Facebook feeds. Have a look at the website. That's where you'll find the most up to date and authoritative news about the Assange case and also critically what you can do about making sure that the most important civil liberties case of the 21st century ends up the right way. Thank you all for being here and thanks to my panelists once again. We'll be having lightning talks again in the future in which we hope that those of you watching will also be part of the contributors to the lightning talks. Thanks very much and good evening.