 So now capital So yeah, of course, there are eight people that own everything and you know, etc But you see if this if you understand capitalism to be embodied in those eight people Then the execution of eight people will lead us to socialism But we know that that's not the case and we know that's not the case because Rajat You talked about how work gives dignity which I think of as the logic of capital not the logic of human freedom You know, I understand that idea that waged employment Somehow is making you a person is part of the social relations of capital from which I want to be liberated So in that sense capital is an abstract social force It's not only vested in the eight people that are not the only Capitalists they have the ones who have hoarded property which they have then in such enormous amounts being able to Structure political power also to their benefit, but capitalism as a social force is Inside our bones inside our expectations inside our ambitions. It is in that sense It's a virus that runs through the system that even the most depressed I'm sorry deprived person is underneath the regime and rule of capitalist social relations in that sense. It's Abstract, you know, what I meant is in the old days if you go and on a pitchfork put the Lord's head You might have ended feudalism in that area. You could have created some sort of liberated zone slave uprising in, you know, Brazil could have created a liberated Maroon and people then created interesting new social relations because they were able to in our period even if one country Gets rid of the bourgeoisie from power. It is embargoed We saw that a hundred years ago with the Russian Revolution and right up to the present with the Venezuelans under immense pressure You know, whatever their own problems are they are yet under immense pressure So in that sense capital is not vested merely in the you can run struggles and personalize it But be careful with what you're doing because then you're also pedagogically suggesting the exit of you know You know, whatever is You know, Adani, whatever is suddenly going to change India. It's not so that's what I mean I'm very I want to be very particular in understanding capital as this universal social phenomena that we have to tackle and Uproot from the root not from, you know, the branches. So that's what I mean by capital It's that general social phenomena The leisure is a short word that we steal from the eight-hour struggle. It doesn't mean just faffing about I mean That's not what leisure means Leisure has to eclipse work. In other words, we need to construct a world where people work joyfully not miserably It is that's quite right. What happens is somebody goes to this BPO works a miserable job comes back to a computer And then it's three hours of gullies against everybody. I hate you Muslims have ruined I mean that sense of anger, frustration, deprivation, you know, humiliation is Extraordinarily general in our societies. The work is degrading people Unemployment is degrading people. So let's rethink what it means to reproduce ourselves as a society It's a much broader challenge and the left has to be up to that challenge We cannot allow the right to take the first exit, you know There are many further exits that we have to imagine the world our imagination has to be much extended If the left is not just the defense of yesterday, it's imagining tomorrow So we have to think very creatively of what a technologized world is going to look like, you know Why is it that power currently and property in other words capital power and property being the two legs of capital? How capital has been able to seize? Technology so that simple technology is like the sewer cleaner the smokeless chula the waterless toilet Ungeneralized, you know in Nepal the biggest killer for women is the chula producing smoke now There are millions of these inventions But capital has not allowed us to generalize them because the rate of return on generalizing that technology is not as high as Making you have a new phone every year, you know So in that sense we have to reimagine the whole thing not take leisure to mean just walking around on the beach It means Understanding what it means to be human and reproduce the world if by the way if we don't make bold claims We might as well close down the left You know the left isn't about minor adjustments and defending yesterday The left is about making a bold claim about the future. That's what we're there for, you know And that's what makes our tasks so bloody difficult See remaining in the present is not allowing us to capture people's imagination in the last election For instance, there was a thing or you people don't understand aspiration What kind of aspiration not the aspiration of the present? But we aspire to a different kind of aspiration where people understand to care for each other To understand each other as being in a society not that you are less productive than me. Therefore. I disrespect you Not that kind of society finally, sorry democracy Democracy I Mean look the question is Was there really a democracy, you know or was this also not Capitalist dictatorship. I mean really was there a democracy. I mean, you know, we talked about again Just take the Suez an example, you know has cast not completely surrendered Indian democracy I mean, let's not fantasize about somehow Indian democracy and then Modi ruins everything What was the character actually of capitalist democracy? It has great limits. It has great limitations It is not a generalized universal phenomena So I don't worry about the destruction of democracy. I worry are we again to pursue the second point Are we imagining what a democratic society should look like not let's defend the past or the present What is a democratic society to look like, you know, finally? We just published a book by Ambedkar means Ambedkar's unfinished book called India and communism in which he makes I think the most powerful claim about Anti-capitalist movements in India if caste is not destroyed in India Ambedkar argued you will never have communism that in other words anti-caste is as fundamental to the communist movement as any labor struggle by itself in a narrow way And I think that is something we should think about that's about society What kind of society you want to build not what kind of factory you want to build I want to live in a world where we're thinking more about societies in general not workplaces in particular