 Hello, and welcome to this online event from the British Library. It's not entirely online because I'm sitting on the stage in the British Library Theatre, and so is Hugh Bonneville. So we are in one space, and then the other speakers are online, and you are all online. I'm delighted to be joined today by a fantastic group of people to celebrate the story of Paddington, one of the best-loved characters in children's literature, an iconic figure who needs very little introduction, but he provides a lot of food for thought about what is so great about children's literature. Later on, we'll be taking some of your questions, so if you want to send them in, please use the form just below the video screen and post your questions at any time, and we'd like to get in as many as possible, so just keep them coming. At the top of the screen, you'll also find a tab saying books, which you can click, to find out not only the books but also a lot of other Paddington goodies, and you'll find tabs there that allow you to send in your feedback about the event or to help support the work of the British Library, so you've got a job to do while we're talking. We're running the event tonight as part of a programme for an exhibition here at the British Library called Paddington, The Story of a Bear, which you'll be hearing more about later in the event. It's been wonderful that so many people have been able to come to see the exhibition already, but if you'd like to come, and I do recommend it very, very strongly, it's on at the British Library until the 31st of October, and just today I've been told that when Chinese, it was the private view of the exhibition was put on, up on Chinese Vibo, 106,000 people viewed it, so this exhibition is travelling the world and it repays visiting in person if you can get here or online. The Library has a number more exciting events coming up as part of the exhibition, among them next Monday evening we'll be hearing all about London's famous and magnificent railway stations from St Pancras, which the British Library is just next door to, to of course Paddington. It'll be a live talk by railway expert Christian Walmer, and at the end of October, we have a proper feel good celebration featuring the brilliant Calypso music band Tobago and Lime, who, if you remember the Paddington movies, appear on those. That's an event called London is the place for me after that famous song. Please have a look at the British Library for more details. And now I would like to introduce the speakers very briefly. The form is going to be, we're going to have a quick introduction. We're going to have a reading from Hugh Bonneville, and then each of the speakers is going to talk and going to have a small conversation with them, but then it will be very much over to you to ask your questions of them. So I'm going to do this in strict alphabetical order, so we have R.W. Alley, who is known as Bob, so I hope he doesn't mind me calling him Bob, who's an award winning artist and illustrator, both based in Rhode Island, USA, and he is joining us from there. The time difference works well. He's been illustrating Paddington since the 1990s, and he creates both black and white line illustrations for the books and colour illustrations. Alison Bailey is the British Library curator of printed heritage collections from 1901 to 2000. She's a specialist on a great many things included in the British Library's collection, such as the British Experience of the First World War of Woman Suffrage, and in particular she is a specialist in British children's literature from all periods. She's the curator of the exhibition of Paddington, The Story of the Bear, and has previously curated other collections, other exhibitions for children, including Animal Tales in 2015, and Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Bat, 400 Years of Poetry for Children. Hugh Bonneville is here today because he plays Mr Brown in the wonderful Paddington films, Paddington One and Paddington Two, but he is also well known as a stage actor. He worked for both the National Theatre and the Royal Shakespeare Company and as a film actor, appearing in many films including Notting Hill. But he's probably best known to us here for his many and varied TV roles Downton Abbey and W1A to pick out Just Two. He is also a lifelong fan of Paddington and has great to say about that too. Karen Jenkel is the daughter of Michael Bond and Brenda Bond. She was born just before a bear called Paddington was first published, so she's always grown up with the character from the book. She's been the managing director of Paddington and the CEO of, she's been the managing director of Paddington and Co Ltd for the past 30 years and has been closely involved with the development of Paddington, culminating with the film Paddington One. She's now retired from that role, but is still a trustee of Michael Bond's literary estate and is able to keep a careful watch on her father's legacy. But now, having set the scene, got the speakers, please can I ask you to read and kick us off with the beginning of Paddington. This is taken from the opening of the first book. Chapter one, please look after this bear. Mr and Mrs Brown first met Paddington on a railway platform. In fact, that was how he came to have such an unusual name for a bear for Paddington was the name of the station. The Browns were there to meet their daughter Judy, who was coming home from school for the holidays. It was a warm summer day and the station was crowded with people on their way to the seaside. Trains were humming loud speakers, blaring porters, rushing about, shouting at one another. And all together, there was so much noise that Mr Brown, who saw him first, had to tell his wife several times before she understood a bear on Paddington station. Mrs Brown looked at her husband in amazement, don't be silly Henry, there can't be. Mr Brown adjusted his glasses. But there is, he insisted. I distinctly saw it over there near the bicycle racket was wearing a funny kind of hat. Without waiting for a reply, he caught hold of his wife's arm and pushed her through the crowd round a trolley laden with chocolate and cups of tea past a bookstore and threw a gap in a pile of suitcases towards the lost property office. There you are. He announced triumphantly, pointing towards a dark corner. I told you so. Mrs Brown followed the direction of his arm and dimly made out a small furry object in the shadows. It seemed to be sitting on some kind of suitcase and around its neck there was a label with some writing on it. The suitcase was old and battered and on the side in large letters were the words wanted on voyage. Mrs Brown clutched at her husband. Why Henry? She exclaimed. I believe you were right after all. It is a bear. She peered at it more closely. It seemed a very unusual kind of bear. It was brown in colour, a rather dirty brown and it was wearing a most odd looking hat with a wide brim just as Mr Brown had said. From beneath the brim two large round eyes stared back at her. Seeing that something was expected of it, the bear stood up and politely raised its hat revealing two black ears. Good afternoon, it said in a small clear voice. Good afternoon replied Mr Brown doubtfully. There was a moment of silence. The bear looked at them inquiringly. Can I help you? Mr Brown looked rather embarrassed. Well no, as a matter of fact we were wondering if we could help you. Mrs Brown bent down. You're a very small bear, she said. The bear puffed out its chest. I'm a very rare sort of bear, he replied importantly. There aren't many of us left where I come from. And where is that? asked Mrs Brown. The bear looked round carefully before replying. Darkest Peru. I'm not really supposed to be here at all. I'm a stowaway. A stowaway? Mr Brown lowered his voice and looked anxiously over his shoulder. He almost expected to see a policeman standing behind him with a notebook and pencil taking everything down. Yes, said the bear. I emigrated, you know. A sad expression came into its eyes. I used to live with my Aunt Lucy in Peru, but she had to go into a home for retired bears. Well, you don't mean to say you've come all the way from South America by yourself, exclaimed Mrs Brown. The bear nodded. Aunt Lucy always said she wanted me to emigrate when I was old enough. That's why she taught me to speak English. Oh, but whatever did you do for food? asked Mr Brown. You must be starving. Bending down, the bear unlocked the suitcase with a small key which it also had round its neck and brought out an almost empty glass jar. I ate marmalade, he said rather proudly. Bears like marmalade and I lived in a lifeboat. But what are you going to do now? said Mr Brown. You can't just sit on Paddington station waiting for something to happen. Oh, I shall be all right. I expect the bear bent down to do up its case again. As he did so, Mrs Brown caught a glimpse of the writing on the label. It said simply, please look after this bear. Thank you. She turned appealingly to her husband. Oh Henry, what shall we do? We can't just leave him here. There's no knowing what might happen to him. London's such a big place when you've nowhere to go. Can't he come and stay with us for a few days? Mr Brown hesitated. But Mary dear, we can't take him. Not just like that. After all, after all what? Mrs Brown's voice had a firm note to it. She looked down at the bear. He is rather sweet and he'd be such company for Jonathan and Judy. Even if it's only for a little while they'd never forgive. They'd never forgive. They'd never forgive us if they knew you'd left him here. It all seems highly irregular, said Mr Brown doubtfully. I'm sure there's a law about it. He bent down. Would you like to come and stay with us? He asked. That is, he added hastily, not wishing to offend the bear if you've nothing else planned. The bear jumped and his hat nearly fell off with excitement. Oh, yes please. I should like that very much. I've nowhere to go and everyone seems in such a hurry. Well, dad settled then, said Mrs Brown before her husband could change his mind. And you can have marmalade for breakfast every morning and she tried hard to think of something else that bears might like. Every morning, the bear looked as if it could hardly believe its ears. I only had it on special occasions at home. Marmalade's very expensive in darkest Peru. Then you shall have it every morning starting tomorrow, continued Mrs Brown. And honey on Sunday. A worried expression came over the bear's face. Would it cost very much? He asked. You see, I haven't very much money. Of course not. We wouldn't dream of charging you anything. We shall expect you to be one of the family. Henry. Mrs Brown looked at her husband for support. Of course, said Mr Brown. By the way, he added, if you are coming home with us, you'd better know our names. This is Mrs Brown and I'm Mr Brown. The bear raised its hat politely twice. I haven't really got a name, he said, only a Peruvian one which no one can understand. Oh, then we'd better give you an English one, said Mrs Brown. It'll make things much easier. She looked round the station for inspiration. It ought to be something special, she said thoughtfully. As she spoke, an engine, standing in one of the platforms gave a loud wail and a train began to move. I know what, she exclaimed. We found you on Paddington station, so we'll call you Paddington. Paddington. The bear repeated it several times to make sure. It seems a very long name. Quite distinguished, said Mr Brown. Yes, I like Paddington as a name. Paddington, it shall be. Thank you so much and this is where we should all applaud and I hope you all are wherever you are because that was the most wonderful introduction to a conversation. So nice to hear a story being read aloud to us and so much in that very brief extract that we know is at the heart of the Paddington stories. I'm now going to talk to Karen about, can I be intrusive Karen and ask you about growing up with Paddington and how it felt to have this curious sibling who you must have sometimes loved and sometimes loathed like we all do with our siblings really. How old were you when the books were published? You may not answer, you don't have to answer that. Just tell me about growing up with Paddington. Well I can actually. I was two months old when the first book came out, so every time Paddington has a major anniversary I'm reminded that I'm now in my 60s. But now it was wonderful growing up with Paddington. I mean of course I never knew anything else by the time I was aware. Paddington was very much part of the family and I mean it's your right sometimes younger siblings or siblings can get a bit annoying but Paddington most of the time was pretty wonderful to have around. It was very sticky because obviously there was a lot of marmalade everywhere but. But did people endlessly kind of you know his catch phrases that one of the extraordinary things about Paddington was how quickly aid the image of him but we'll get on to that talking about the illustration but also things like the marmalade sandwiches and the curiosity of his name and being found on the station abandoned and all of that. They were so publicly talked about. Did people ask you about those things? They did probably. I mean I suppose there was a time perhaps when I was in my teens when I was a little bit embarrassed by the whole thing because that's all anybody wanted to talk about. But no I mean it was very special and I was enormously proud of my father all along really. I mean how wonderful to be lucky enough to grow up in a not only in a house full of books but full of books that your own father's written and so I think I always felt very very fortunate. Well that's lovely to hear but and it's what I would expect because the whole experience is so is such a warm one. Tell us about how the story started you know I mean obviously you weren't there while your father was originally penning them but just fill us in on the background. Yes well it my father had always wanted to be a writer and at the time he was working as a television cameraman for BBC and my parents were living fairly near to well in Notting Hill at the time and Christmas eve 1956 my father was waiting for a bus outside Selfridges and it started to snow and he wandered in to the store and for some reason they didn't have any children at that point but he found himself in the toy department and they're sitting all alone on a shelf. He found a solitary bear and being the sort of man my father was he felt he couldn't possibly leave this poor bear sitting all alone of a Christmas so he bought him as a last minute stocking filler for my mother and took him home and he gave him to my mother they sat him on the mantelpiece and a little while after Christmas my father sat down one day to his typewriter and looking around the room for inspiration and he saw this bear and he thought now I've always thought that Paddington would make a good name for a character and I wonder what would happen if a bear was found on Paddington station and he started to write he didn't actually set out he always says he didn't set out to write a children's book he really wrote for his own pleasure but in a but within about 10 days he actually found that he'd written an entire children's book and that's how it all began. Yes I mean that's very interesting because I think that's quite that's true of quite a lot of people who write children's books they don't always know that's what it's going to be but then they're very pleased when they've done it. Can I um did your did your mother like this bear when it was her surprise present in her stocking was she was pleased with it as he was for having found it? Absolutely delighted and uh I mean this the actual bear became a part of the family and and still is um my my parents divorced uh many years later but very amicably and so at that point um they they took on joint custody of the bear so he'd spent part of his time with my mother and part of his time with my father. That's a very nice touch um the the the obvious things we know about Paddington and we respond to very immediately are um the humour and we love his politeness and we love the marmelade damages and we love the duffle coat and we love all sorts of things like that but what about the really big themes that are in Paddington which are I think the thing that I mean I'm too old to have grown up on Paddington but when it appeared in my childhood um I don't remember anybody talking about the themes of Paddington it was just he was such a wonderful character and it was such a great a great story this idea of somebody you know that that extraordinary thing that your father did of creating a character who we believe to be real even though he's a bear and we know he couldn't really be in fact actually thinking about his birthday I went to his 60th birthday party at the Peruvian Embassy in London and on the way home somebody rang I said oh I'm just on my way back for the most amazing party for Paddington's 60th birthday I said Julia you do know he's not real I said well he's real to us but that the big theme of of the evacuation and the um tolerance and kindness and all of the things which now seem incredibly relevant do you remember that being discussed at the time that you're violated I'm not sure it was specifically discussed but it was a very much part of of everybody's lives um my father as I said at the beginning was living in Notting Hill so um at the time you know there were a lot of immigrants living in the area um he lived in he was a very kind tolerant man himself um and he my father had a very strong belief in in right and wrong and I think he put that into his stories into his books so I think they just evolved from the the kind of man that my father was and kind of by definition um you know that that's how that the books had the themes that they did because they they were things that my father was interested in that were important to him um so but I don't think he ever really analysed um his books and I think very few writers actually analyse their books in that way I think other people analyse them for them um but no I you know Paddington was very much um a lot of Paddington was very much my father himself really particularly the humour um and uh I mean that that my father was a very very funny man yeah that doesn't surprise me um well that was I was going to ask you next about him as a as a father you know we know quite a lot about him as a writer we know quite a lot about his life and how he was a cameraman he has there's a wonderful line in one of his uh the biographies I read of him about him it was a quote actually of his so it's a broad biographical quote saying that his mother liked the uniform of the school that he was sent to and it was the only bad decision that she had ever made so I thought that was a wonderfully quick way of dismissing your parental choice of education so obviously school wasn't a great success for him but then he found a job he loved being a cameraman and then he gave that up to to become a writer so a very successful career um but but how did he do his writing and when he was writing what was your interaction with him did he listen to his children did he take advice he wrote all the time and I think again successful writers I mean that that's really all they want to do so he would get up very early in the morning uh and he would write write he would write every day of the year including Christmas day he never went anywhere without an envelope or a piece of paper in his wallet that he could pull out and jot down ideas and notes as they as they came to him so he worked very very hard at it um and I think he just took ideas from around him he didn't certainly didn't ask for advice I never got to have the stories read to me until they were finished they would certainly be read before they were published but only when he was really happy that that they were finished um so I don't know if that really answers your question um but I you know he was he was he worked very hard at it well he was writing about a book a year wasn't he I mean there isn't one published actually sequentially every year but if you look at the body of his work I mean he was very prolific yes and in fact of course he wasn't just writing Paddington no because he's got the old you know a lot of other things as well so um but but yes the Paddington in the early days that the novels initially were were one a year and then they sort of slowed up and then I think he wrote one in I think it was 1976 was the last one for a very long time and then he wrote another one um really I think it was probably about the 50th anniversary he suddenly got into the the swing of writing the novels again and then of course there were all the picture books in between which is when when bob you know if it started to illustrate in in in the 90s um so there were many Paddington books in very a lot of different forms and did he do you think his writing changed after his I mean he became successful fairly quickly um you know though it's very hard I mean you know I'm I'm sure as you remember it's his amazing memorial service in St Paul's I can't think of another children's writer who has had that honour so you know he became so important in in British children's literature um but I wonder if his writing changed at all do you think in the years that he was doing it as he became more successful I think it it didn't so much change as the themes changed and what's amazing about Paddington is although he started writing him in the 1950s and Paddington never really grows up himself but the world around him changes and so I think my father adapted his writing to adapt to the world around Paddington really um I mean he he would have never done anything really um ridiculous with Paddington like sending him to the moon but he certainly did get involved I mean in the more recent novels he uses Noyster Card on the buses and you know that that sort of thing and um and probably mobile phones would then sort of come into the stories or but and so I said yes he's writing as such didn't change but but the themes probably did and what was he like as a father who said he was very kind but I wonder whether he was you know in our minds we're confused as to whether he's Mr Brown or Paddington or maybe a mixture of the two he was a lovely father and I think what was wonderful about him was he really took an interest in in people and things and he took an interest in one's life and so um yes I think which is terribly important and he always read to me and he used to write most wonderful letters when I was away and there he was he was a very he was a fabulous father adored him oh well that's that's that's wonderful you adored the sibling and you endured the father it's actually in a good place for my last question which is really just to say congratulations on to you and to him and to the family on having looked after Paddington Paddington the entity as it were the publishing business so well and to have done something that's very hard to pull off in Children's Works which is to have come up with a cracking good film so I know you must have been watching over Paddington very carefully for the last 30 years or however long you've been doing it um what were the big challenges in that um I think that people wanted to do a lot of things with Paddington that we had to sort of put our foot down about um so it was making sure that we never we never sort of compromised Paddington's integrity for um for making money you know I mean at the end of the day just to be absolutely blunt that wasn't what it was about it was making sure that Paddington stayed true to himself and it could have it was very tempting you know we could have um done so many things with him but we always made sure that um we only ever did what was right for Paddington but that's that's quite a big art I mean you make that sound quite easy but I know it's very difficult because as you say the temptations to do all sorts of other things and if you think of you know very beloved characters and children's literature like um Peter Rabbit most particularly comes to mind who have been has been much changed in how he looks by various iterations and currently on TV and you've managed to keep Paddington looking like Paddington yeah yes and and of course Paddington visually and we'll probably come on to that in a minute with when you talk to Bob um actually does change in in his appearance except that he is always Paddington he's always got that character um his hat his duffle coat the things that go with him and you always recognise him as Paddington but I won't spoil what Bob's going to say all right well thank you very very much for that and that's just such a wonderful I mean it would be awful if you said you you hadn't liked him but it was quite clear that you really really did um thank you um Bob can we move on to the images of Paddington because as I said at the beginning you came into the Paddington story in the 1990s and um Peggy Fortunum had already made her images of Paddington and Iverwood had done Paddington and David McKee had done Paddington so there were quite a lot of images of Paddington but um as Karen said they were kept they were kept very um tight we don't have kind of very different images of Paddington so there you were in 1990 you got a call and somebody said do you want to draw Paddington how did it how did it happen? Well as as many things happen these days it was a corporate merger when a New York publisher and a London publisher emerged and the New York office wanted to publish Paddington in the United States in a big way and I was working with them as I was illustrating many books using the pen and ink and watercolor technique and they felt that that would be certainly very appropriate for um um Paddington books and Michael had agreed to write some brand new picture books and so there were manuscripts available and I went over to London and auditioned with Michael and found him to be exactly as Karen has spoken of him to be a wonderful and open person and not I mean so generous is not to be put off at all that an American would would dain to to to even consider illustrating a um an iconic British character but I was drawn to Paddington because my work is for kids is all about making friendly kind inclusive characters and I'm not I'm not an artist who is burdened with any particular technical skill I do what I do and it's it it I'm just trying to make something that makes me happy when I'm having a bad day my characters have a bad day and the waste bin gets full full of pieces of paper so being offered the chance to um to illustrate a character who is at heart as optimistic and as um as engaging and as friendly and as open to the world as Paddington was you don't say no to an opportunity like that um I also had the amazing pleasure of not really knowing the scope of all the Paddington novels so I got to read them one after another all at once and it was absolutely marvelous and and then then I saw Michael's picture book versions and he was um he was uh he just written and it it was just it was just going to be marvelous so and luckily he liked he liked my characters that I that I presented him with um I think all except for Mr Gruber who he wasn't really pleased with my first interpretation of and I went back to my hotel room and redrew him and showed it to Michael the next morning and he did like it that that's what I noticed and my Mr Gruber looks a lot like Mr Bond but that was obviously just just happenstance just I mean what are you doing but you must when you started when you took on this job even though you are illustrating it for the American market so you know one of the interesting things about Paddington we in the UK think of him as so you know quintessentially British but yet he's published all over the world and the image of him remained pretty constant um so you did you what did you do about the previous illustrated so to speak did you go back and look what they'd done and make your own version or did you try and draw from the text direct mostly well I had to look you know having immersed myself in the novels I became incredibly familiar with Peggy's drawings and those seem to still um engage the heart of of Paddington and so my drawing sort of sprung from her illustrations more than um any other previous illustrators but the thing the thing that's remarkable as um as uh as a visual artist about the character like Paddington is that he has been shown in so many different forms on the very uh a very harsh style of of cartooning all the way to you know the the wonderful fluffiness of the films but it's always Paddington because no matter the the style it's all the illustrators have managed to get at the heart of the character and I don't know whether it's in the eyes I don't know whether it's in the motion but I think you know I think it's really in the words I think if you pay attention to the words because when you're illustrating a character you have you have the words first and foremost in your head and they're always running through your mind when you're drawing and at some point you turn off your um the decision-making process of uh if something is good or bad and you just go with the feeling of um uh that's coming out on paper so it's um it it's kind of hard to hard to explain it but um it's it's the character is just so universal and so appealing that he translates all over the world and I was lucky too because um Michael's when you saw my picture said that he would um let me illustrate all the books throughout the world and that was that was very nice as opposed to Fragment maybe he was tired of of all the fragmenting and wanted to have sort of a unified look I don't know but I felt really lucky on that one and now I think you're going to show us uh you're going to give us some drawing some live drawing of how to do passion if you want to take it because you're going to now be um six-year-olds and uh and this is what I do with the six-year-olds I show them how I draw a character and so um but the thing about this is that Paddington has so uh is such an iconic character that you just need to draw a few a few lines and he comes to he comes to like for instance um let's see I always start out by by making sure that I have I have the image slightly sketched out like this and let's see in this case he'll be he'll be taking off confused wonderful reading and uh greeting greeting the grounds with his hat coming up and he'll have his coat on even though and well doesn't appear in the very first novel until a little later but that's okay so Paddington I always start with with his nose and his eyes like this and the black ears coming up like this and a little bit of fur coming around and his coat sits on his on his body like this and his arm will come up and the main thing is not to get too particular I don't know if if your students of writing you will notice that Michael's texts are specific but not specific at the same time and that's the wonderful part about them because they don't things get pinned down too quickly sometimes in literature now this is um this is some watercolor coming on here but we're what I'm using a crayon and Paddington's hat we had a big discussion uh Michael and I did about making sure that Paddington's hat was always red so I always started out with yellow just to scare him a little bit and um the red will come up like this and as I always tell the kids watching when you have um when you have one color to do like a blue color that's very nice but it's good to add a little bit of nuance to it a little bit of shade here and there to make things look a little round because he is rather a round bear sometimes and the duffle coat here it's always difficult with the duffle coat for me I'm not I'm not sure I have the tabs on the on the right way each time and I think if you look at the pictures they change from drawing to drawing and see the suitcase down like that and he'll have to have a tag around his neck of course like so and then the most important part because he looks just a little dull right now but there's always one little tweak that you can you can add that will bring a character to life and that's just a little smile like that and suddenly it becomes an animated an animated bear but that's that's the bear bones of it if you could imagine the actually using a very narrow procle pen and a whole bunch of watercolors that this is and also in actuality the drawings are about this big maybe about the size of his head like that because oh my god I can't keep track of anything this large and a picture book and it is a picture book come on anyway that's that's our drawing demonstration for today brilliant that's absolutely fantastic and it is amazing you just putting on that smile is just so extraordinary isn't that ridiculous yeah I mean I I I marvel at that I don't I don't understand that and I intentionally leave that to the very end so I have I'm working on a book now new Paddington book now and it's the drawings are a lot of bears with no mouths yet so we've gotta gotta get you know get to the get to the happy place of Paddington being being animated in the proper way and what about the other characters and I mean Paddington has remained universal right here we are you started doing this in the 1990s we were many many years past that and what do we feel thanks a lot not you are we are well I'm sorry that doesn't work all right you have to be included it's it's some time has passed people dress differently backgrounds have changed urban scenes have altered Karen was talking about how her father didn't exactly modernize the stories but he did kind of also at the same time keep them up to date like Paddington traveling with an oyster card how how do you feel about you know the images that you showed Michael Bond when he first commissioned you uh you must be adapting them all the time oh absolutely the um the images that I I mean I caught on very quickly that Michael wanted to make sure that Tannington was always living in the modern world he might not age and the brown family might not age but everything around them would be with each book completely up to date in fact I I managed I wound up illustrating two versions of the picture book version of Paddington being found in Paddington station because I did one in the 90s at the beginning of working with Michael and then about 10 or 15 years later they had the affrontery to architecturally revamped Paddington station and Michael became very annoyed um that it's it doesn't look the same so I I have to redo the whole book to make sure that that the architecture was the same and now it's been redone again I can only imagine what his thoughts are but yeah the the characters they're dressed the things they use I've introduced cell phones into the pictures now um it's it's exactly as as Karen described it is that we did a picture book um about the Olympics when the for um for the Olympics coming to London and it was it's it's that type of of willingness to and keep the character present in the world that I think makes Paddington so relevant makes it possible to do relevant movies makes it like no one is going backwards in time you know it's not like Paddington lives in a poor world where it's um everything is is just set the way it was in the books and that's that or um or you know you would mention Peter Rabbit they're you know working hard to try to try to figure out what to do with those characters and it's just a mishmash but um Paddington lives in the real world so it's easy to illustrate him and when I couldn't get to to to London to to get some reference for the illustrations Michael would send me about 500 photographs of exactly what he wanted and he was upset with me when I drew the wrong bus because what the roadmasters had had changed over to something brand new looking that you couldn't hop on and hop off the back anymore no we had bendy buses that would have been quite a new thing to put in yeah yes and he was annoyed that I had the effrontery to do the old stuff particular so I did the new stuff but isn't that so interesting I'm trying quickly while we're talking and I can't off the top of my head but maybe somebody in the audience will think of a character who like Paddington um has uh remain he remains universal but the scenery behind him sort of alters and in and so makes brings the stories up to date without really him changing that is very clever because there are lots of quick I mean you know in Harry Potter JK Rowling makes Harry Potter grow up through the seven years of Hogwarts in other stories like well you know I don't know Arthur Ransom or something they don't grow up very much um you know there's the it's an interesting thing about what you do with characters in fiction and how you you grow them up and I think this is an incredible it's almost like a it feels like some sort of I don't know cartoon magic that you can have Paddington being Paddington the universal figure everywhere anywhere and presumably if people are reading when people are reading not if they are when people are reading these stories around the world okay you're now the illustrator of Paddington not only in the US but in other territories how are you doing backgrounds for Paddington when he's in London but it's written in Japanese that luckily doesn't become an issue because the thing about Paddington is that he is a London bear right and that and that people um need to have him be in London occasionally and some of the some of the stories you will take a vacation with the Browns to France but um that's very rare most of the time he's right in London and there's no the pictures that are that um that go in or other that are published in other countries are exactly the same except for the languages that require the books to go back and forth but then the pictures get flopped and they look all wonky to me but that's just like mere handwriting it's very confusing and the smile I don't know the smile doesn't turn out quite the way I like it but nitpicking yeah I think that's nitpicking well that's a fantastic introduction I think makes us think a lot about the you know keeps us back to this core Paddington character and what is so important about him and as you say in your first you know when you first met Michael Bond and you first read the stories and you just knew that was something very very special and particular about the character so thank you very much for introducing us the visual side and now I'm going to move on to Hugh to talk about because you came to Paddington as a child as well he wasn't a sibling for you obviously but you read him when you were very young or somebody read him aloud to you well I think that the reason I felt like probably hundreds of thousands of other children of my generation um or indeed you know ever since um he was the first book that I could really read for myself and uh and so therefore my relationship with Paddington was very strong and vivid and um and and and you form a you know very sort of protective ring about around those characters that you grew up with which is why when I think that the you know there was sort of the film was mooted the first film was mooted there was a sort of outcry of how dare you know Hollywood as it were um attack our bear and um but also you know these characters are so they are so personal and and and so is a big risk when you when you try and translate them to another medium be it tv film or whatever for stage um and so it was it was a there was a I was you know I was conscious that the the team behind it were um were had a great responsibility put it that way yes and I know from talking to them when they were sort of wanting to do it they all passionately cared about Paddington too and I'm sure Karen would agree that you couldn't they wouldn't have ever been allowed the chance to make the film if they like you and probably the rest of the cast hadn't had quite a commitment to the to Paddington anyway well I think I'd like to think so and I'm you know Karen is the one to ask because she was the the gatekeeper so to speak but uh I know that David Heyman um and Rosie Allison uh who nurtured the project along with Paul King who co-wrote and directed um the the first and second movies um you know I mean basically Paul King is Paddington I mean he is this sort of warm round bear um who never does anything intentionally unkind and um and and they're there they really did care passionately about getting it right and bringing Karen and obviously particularly Michael along on the journey and I don't know whether Karen can confirm or deny this but when Michael did see the first cut of the film or the final cut of the film uh he after the screening everyone was you know pacing up and down outside nervously and he did have the good grace to say I came I saw I was conquered very good I like that very much is that true Karen is that true the tears is absolutely true yes in fact my father and I didn't watch the very first screening of it together because we were both so nervous about what the other one would think um so we watched it separately but yeah he was completely blown away when he saw it so how did you I mean they approached you you you heard they were doing it I have to tell you this because you can't all see but uh Hugh has got the most fantastic Paddington broach on his jacket oh yes um which kind of in that clothes I'm afraid but it is but it is it is absolutely lovely and it's difficult to be sitting looking at him and and not notice it and of course then everything he says about Paddington is so clearly true because there he is with his kind of badge on him yes well yes I wear my Paddington badge with pride um no I just got a call out of the blue really from David Heyman's office and I and I Paul King and I sat in David Heyman's waiting room like two nervous school boys about to see the headmaster and we went in and chatted and uh and that was the beginning of the of the conversation so to speak um you know dates didn't fit and all the rest of it but eventually um we we got the machine rolling um and it was obviously as you appreciate a vast machine just look at the the credits at the end you know you get the the usual block and then after about a minute it goes into five five columns and that goes on for another eight minutes well because of all the one the special effects were very special they were remarkable and you know up to you know when you're working on a project like this with all the sort of uh digital wizardry that you can't yourself imagine yet uh or see and I thought well you know it's gonna they're gonna have a good stab at it it'll be all right and then Rosie I think showed me a clip of um or Paul showed me a clip of the the first bit I saw was when he dunks his head down the loo and uh I was absolutely blown away by the quality of the of the of the digital effects and I thought wow we're we're in for something quite special here and it grew and grew and I think by the time the the second film came along the I think the artistry involved in in the characterisation of Paddington in particular um was was really was was just incredible well I think most of us of viewers had very much said misgivings that you know you had thought initially um because we're always frightened of something we love being sort of changed into something we don't love so much um but for you playing Mr Brown I mean I think Mr Brown's very interesting character because Paddington is clearly you know the hero in a sense and Mr Brown is he's not an antihero he is also a hero but he's got to have a very different kind of part what were you thinking about it when you took on the role well it was very and this again you know tremendous credit to to Paul um and the co-writers on both films really because you know Paddington it's each of the stories it within the the novels do each have a beginning middle and end each chapter does they are sort of perfect bedtime stories really um and it's uh everyone resets to their default position pretty much what Paddington does you know he he he sets off to do something positive it all goes horribly wrong there's potential catastrophe and then it ends up okay yeah and usually with a with a you know cherry on top and um uh and so but the characters don't really develop and of course in in film narrative you often want some sort of development and so the idea that Mr Brown was incredibly tense and and and wound up in in in our choice at the world of insurance and risk analysis um and that the presence of the bear was the you know the worst thing that could happen and then by the end this again is just in simple things like in the costume at the beginning of the of the show of Mr Brown's journey he's wearing gray he's very conservative by the end he's wearing a red t-shirt and he's on top of the on top of the um the museum you know defending this bear so the idea that uh the presence of of the bear into the is is the catalyst in the life of the Browns that that brings something brings them together in a way that they hadn't anticipated and Paul had talked about this in rehearsals that the Browns have a fisher in their relationship so we rehearsed and improvised Sally and I sort of throwing crockery in each other he said no that's not what I meant there's just some there's a sort of missing thing in in the relationship and uh the presence of the bear begins to bring them together on this common journey um and uh that was obviously you know rebooted in the second film um with mr Brown's midlife crisis well yes it gets a bit kind of more carried away in the second film perhaps more fun for you it was yes i mean that must have been quite a ride it was actually it was and uh and again the the care that they all took you know there's a the second film was both films we reshot bits um after they assembled the whole film and in the second film actually mr Brown punched Phoenix Buchanan on the nose to sort of finish the that bit of the story and I think the feeling was that that's not very Paddington like to actually biff someone on the nose so they re unpicked the entire thread of the story and set it up that mr Brown used to be really brilliant at coconut shines so that in the end it's a it's a coconut ball a coconut shy ball that that pings uh Phoenix Buchanan at the end and not a fist which is much more much more Paddington like because it would be a mistake yeah so we reshot that whole that all each of those scenes yeah well i'm very interested in what you said about the fisher between mr and mrs brown because there's a one in the in the wonderful exhibition there's a very short clip uh just from the moment that they find Paddington on the station and I think you said that I mean what you have just described is so evident in that very brief moment between you and mrs brown you know when she has one response and mr brown has one completely different response and it's how the rest of the story is going to kind of bring them together I mean that's a wonderful way of looking at that's a whole new take on it is and I hope it isn't against the spirit of you know of what Michael intended because you don't get a sense in the stories that there's a division or difference of opinion and they may have you know slightly different attitudes to the adventures they go on but uh in again in the film narrative you've already in the opening scene Sally's character is already in red she's already a woman who enjoys uh the adventures in life yeah and she's this in in in paul's version you know she's the illustrator and she's looking for her hero character and what he what he looks like um and uh so again yeah so it's just a it's really clever writing I think actually the way that paul paul developed that that these tiny little moments of of difference and and and rift gradually um and and of course the genuine explosion of Paddington into their life ruining their bathroom and everything else um actually becomes the catalyst for change and and bringing the entire family together yeah but they couldn't I mean the I agree that the film is very well written but all of that comes out of what Michael Bond originally you know the richness that they could take and turn into a completely different kind of story in some respects but with the bones of the original comes I think from Michael Bond's creativity oh absolutely 100 percent it's all there um for people to you know develop already absolutely and I think yes as you said earlier you know you tinker with the integrity of that bear at your peril and uh and to and to find a a sweetness but a sense of adventure and um and the fact that we all you know we've all been that that's bare somewhere we've all needed that helping hand at a new school or at a new country or moving to a new town um and of course you know the all the themes mae'n cyfnod i'n mynd i'ch cyd-doedd, i'ch bydd hon i'ch cyfnod i'ch cyd-doedd. Mae'n cyd-doedd sydd ymwneud, oherwydd mae'n cyd-doedd, mae'n cyd-doedd yn mynd i'r cair sydd, a'r cyd-doedd yn y bydd yn cyd-doedd. Mae'n cyd-doedd yn y fwyaf yng Nghaerhwy, ein rhoi. Mae'n amgylchedd yn y ffilm yng Nghymru, ac yn rhaid i'r cerddau yng Nghymru yn 1958, mae'n ymddiolod y maeddenniti. Mae'r bydwys. Mae'r bydwys i'n meddwl. Mae'r bydwys i, ond mae'n meddwl y mae'r bydwys i gyfnod oreng. Efallai, mae'n meddwl sy'n meddwl i'r bydwys i'n meddwl. Mae'r ymddangos o'r ysgol yn y ffyrdd. Mae'n fhyddi sydd wedi'i gwneud y ffyrdd y ffyrdd. Mae'n edrych yn gwneud y ffyrdd yw wirfodol. Mae'n ffyrdd o'r ffyrdd yma'r gaf, mae'r gwasiaeth o'r gwasiaeth i'r ffyrdd. answered scon them, 1812 I saw them in all that. As well as the lessons, as the tensions within Notting Hill, as Karen said, when she was growing up. So they're very present without, you know, hopefully bashing anyone over their head and Paddington is the absolute symbol of needing acceptance and offering help. And the films have gone around the world, isn't it? I know, yes. And so sydd wedi bod y cyfaint yn ymddangos i Paddington. Felly os ydych chi'n meddwl i'r gweithio ymddangos y romp? Yn mynd i fyddig i'n meddwl, pan yw Paddington, alsi'r cyffordd â'r cwestiynau, wrth gwrs, gallwn i'n ffrasil, mae'n ddim yn ei wneud yn ni yw'r cyffordd â'r cyffordd. Ac mae'n meddwl i'r cyffordd, mae'n gweithio'r cychwyneth y Poudington yn ystod y Uniforol. A mae'n gweithio'r cychwyneth sydd yn gallu gweithio'r cyllid ac yn dechrau'r cyfnod. A yn y dynod yn y ffawr cyd-dynod. Yn hynny'n gweithio'r cyd-dynod. Yn hynny'n gweithio'r cychwyneth, ac rwy'n ei wneud o'i'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio. Rwy'n meddwl Simon Russell Beall yn fwy fydd o'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio. a'r penderfyniadau yn ymarferio. Rydyn ni'n ddod i chi ar creu ar ystod a'i ddod fyddwch chi ddim ddweud nad yw'n ddod i chi ddim yn ymdweud? O, dwi'n... Ac rydyn ni'n gweithio. Yn ymlaen, mae'r ysgrifennu yng Nghymru a'i gweithio i'r gyfrifodol ac oedd y cyfrifodol cyfaint ac mae'r rhai gwerth o'r cyfrifodol. Rydyn ni'n ddim yn gweithio. Rydyn ni'n gweithio. Rydyn ni'n gweithio. I appreciate your very much. Well, that's a wonderful bit of background to the film, which I think is giving us all so much pleasure and, as you say, very very unusual to have a film that makes us all as happier and that made Michael and you happy as well Karen. That is a real accolade. Alison, now let's get down to the nuts and bolts of the really fabulous exhibition here at the British Library. It's very original, it's very child friendly but ac mae'n edrych i'n gael i'n ei wneud, ond Alison wedi bod yn gweithio'n gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio. Ddodd i'n gweithio, Alison. Felly, mae gennym nhw'n gweithio gyda'r cyflawn cyflawn. Paddington, ystod y bydd y byddol yn y ffobor 2020, ac mae'n rhaid i'r gweithio'n gweithio'r gweithio. Felly mae'n gweithio'n gweithio ar lywodraeth ein gweithioisiaid y byddai allanol yn gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'n gwahau ac mae'n gwithio'n gwahanol o gweithio a gwahau gweithio'r gweithio ar y senn panchrifeith yw, mae'n ddim yn y bwrdd o'n gweithio. Mae'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio gweithio, a dwy'n�ir i diwethaf mewn commitmentol yn y gwirloch yn no ni. Mae wedi cyflawn cydweithio'r gyfrigeist, yn ddylch yn yr exibisiwn i gwyb profiad, ymdw i'w ddweud i'r stori panfio'r gwahodd yn ddod. Ond dyma, mae bod ychydig iawn i'r ddechrau yn fwyaf, ychydig yn fwyaf ar y dyfyn chi'n gwybod yng Nghymru, ac mae'n ddweud ar ymdwy, ar y llwyffwn, yn y rhwng, yn y cyd-dweud, i'r cyfnod, ymdysig, a'r cyfnod. Felly, ydych chi'n gilydd i'r ddweud yng Nghymru, a'r ddweud ar y ddweud, mewn ddweud i'r gweithfawr, those who've loaned material, our travel partner GWR and the Unwind Charitable Trust, but for my own sake, I'd like to also add my personal thanks to the exhibitions team and the learning team without who's helped, especially in those circumstances, it wouldn't have been possible. So some of you might know we work with two local schools in Camden to co-design aspects of the exhibition, and we're very grateful to the students and staff involved. The Year 4 students from Argyll Primary School created a playful marmalade trail, which runs throughout the exhibition, and they invited French families to make movements, actions and freeze frames in response to exhibits. And Year 3 students from Edith Neville Primary School explored themes of home and belonging, responded to the question, if you were going on an adventure like Paddington, what one thing would you pack in your suitcase to remind you of home? And their colourful images of the chosen objects are displayed in a digital suitcase in the adventure section. And colleagues from learning work with both classes remotely from November 2020 to March 2021, and they were the first schools to visit the exhibition. So this their work helped with our discussions about the level of interactivity that people would feel comfortable with in current circumstances. So we don't have our usual reading area, but we do have those marmalade splats. Opportunities for visitors to practice their hard stairs and take their own self portrait and a free printed exhibition trail of visitors to pick up on their arrival at the exhibition and keep us a souvenir. And you can also enjoy the breakfast table which sets and clears itself. I think you might have just glimtsed it in the image you are seeing just now. So to the exhibition, it's arranged in three main sections, beginnings, home and adventures. And I'd like to introduce you to just a few of the over 50 items we're displaying here, which include illustrated books from our own collections, original artwork, memorabilia on loan from Michael Bond's family, plush toys and sound and film clips. So in beginnings, we focus on two main strands, the creation of the first Paddington stories by Michael Bond and the story of Paddington's journey to England from Peru. And to tell the story of the creation of Paddington, we're lucky enough to have Michael's notebook from 1957, loaned by the estate of Michael Bond, in which he wrote notes and ideas for his early Paddington stories. And I've heard from Karen that the inspiration for the Paddington stories came from a toy bear, which Michael had found in Selfridges in London, all alone on the shelf on Christmas Eve 1956. And he bought it as an extra Christmas present for his wife, and they called it Paddington after the station. And the result was the publication of a bear called Paddington by Collins in October 1958. And we have a copy of the first edition, which was loaned by Karen, signed by Michael and given to his parents with Peggy Fortnum's distinctive penning drawings of Paddington on the dust jacket. In the second section called Home, that's one of the images you can see at the moment, we focus on friends and family and Lucy in Peru, the Browns in London, and Paddington's friends and neighbours nearby. And you can find a model of the door to number 32 Windsor Gardens, where the Browns live. Paddington's adventures were made into a television series by Filmfare in 1975, and Iver Wood, the series creator, gave this door to Michael Bond as a present to mark the 25th anniversary of the publication of a bear called Paddington. And again, this was loaned by the estate of Michael Bond. But after the Brown family, Paddington's closest friend in London is Mr Gruber. You've already heard Bob talking about illustrating him. And he takes Paddington on trips to explore London and gives him lots of helpful advice. And you can see Fred Bambry's illustration of him sharing leavenses or cocoa and buns in a book from our collections. And then the wider community, including the market traders from Portobello Road, can be found in David McKee's original artwork, loaned by the artist of Paddington's magical Christmas. You might have glimts that as you were looking at the slides. They've been in a Christmas Day procession based on the carol, the 12 days of Christmas. So in that section as well, we're lucky enough to have a wooden trunk made by Michael Bond to hold the clothes made for the original bear by his wife, again, loaned by Karen. And a Peggy Thornton illustration in Oil Pastel, loaned by HarperCollins Publishers, which shows Paddington sitting behind his birthday cake and you definitely saw that. The final section, Adventures, contains a number of books from our own collections, including pop-ups and translations, as well as original artwork by David McKee and Peggy Thornton. And we also have artwork by R.W. Alley, Rackett Bob, loaned by Karen of Paddington on the operating table in hospital after spoiler alert, a slight accident with a boomerang. And this story, Paddington Goes to Hospital, was written by Michael with Karen as a way of reassuring children about what might happen in hospital. So Paddington at St Paul's is one of the many picture books illustrated by Bob that we include. It was the last picture book about Paddington written by Michael Bond and it was published in 2018, 60 years after the publication of a bear called Paddington. So that's just a tiny taster to wet your appetite. I hope it's given you an idea of the range of the items in the exhibition. And I hope you'll go and see the exhibition if you haven't already. As Julia said at the beginning, it runs until the 31st of October. And I hope you'll leave wanting to read or reread the many stories about this wonderful bear. It's been a great privilege to be involved in this. Thank you very much. And that gave us a very good impression of how it is when you go into the gallery. And the real thing about it is the amazing amount of interactive stuff there is for children to do, as well as the incredible number of editions, which is quite, really quite staggering. We've now got some questions. And I've got them here on the iPad, so I will read them. And the first one is addressed to you, Karen, which is, how does it feel sharing Paddington with the world? It must be strange having somewhat things so central to your family being adored across the globe. Do you ever wish you could keep him to yourself? Paddington is so special. I would feel wrong keeping him to myself. It's a lovely question. And I guess perhaps possibly when, I don't know, I was going to say when my father died it was quite hard because that was a very sort of personal moment. But at the same time, it was rather lovely that so many people around the world cared so much. So now I'm very happy to share Paddington with the world. And there was, yes, I mean, what's extraordinary is the statue of Paddington at Paddington Station being such a magnet for cards of remembrance of all sorts, you know, and birthday cards and everything. And that sense that everybody feels they have that he belongs to them. So it was very generous of you to let him come out and us all to have a part in him. Sometimes it's very special is that people still leave little items on his headstone, which is it in Paddington Old Cemetery, and they leave little Paddington's and little things for him. So that's also very special. And Hugh, this is a question for you, properly addressed as Mr Bonneville, not like me, just saying Hugh. How do you feel about the differences between the book version and the film version of your character? The film version, Mr Brown is written as a little more cynical and distrustful than he appears in the book. Also, anything you can tell us about Paddington three, the country is in desperate need. Well, the answer to the first one really is, as I alluded to earlier, I think the character of Paddington is the core of the books. And Mr Brown is, I'm not going to say stereotypical, because that's not quite right, but he's a generic character perhaps. I think that's not too rude a thing to say. But he is an establishment figure in terms of the family set up and a little bit hard to read sometimes. And I think Paul King just really wanted to grab it and polish it up and put him into an extreme position so that he's got a good journey to go on. And once I'd contributed my hate me worth, we found a way of developing Mr Brown as, yes, perhaps this very, very overly cautious man who then finally breaks free. Isn't he a very 1950s father, I sort of feel? Oh, I suppose, I suppose yes. I mean, bearing in mind he was written in the 50s, that makes sense. And as for Paddington three, I keep hearing that there is one, so that's great. Now, I think that I haven't seen a script, but there are very confident signs that we'll shoot in some time next year. Where do they get shot? All around London, really. Yes, because a lot was in Primrose Hill. Yes, it was Primrose Hill and the studio is north-western south. Another question for you, Karen. Did your father have a hard stare? Sorry, yes, just trying to unmute. He did. Yes, on occasion, there was another side to him. So I think that possibly did come from him, actually. Didn't use it too often, but if he did you knew that it was time to behave yourself. It was time to stop. And then we've got another question, which is, it's not specific who it's to, which is, could Paddington be an ambassador? And wouldn't that make the world a better place? Now, it seems to me that people must have in the years, Karen, that you've been working with Paddington, there must have been approaches to Paddington to front various campaigns and causes. Is that something you've ever taken on board for him? Oh, absolutely. In fact, my father, when Paddington first came on to television, that's when he became very popular. And my father was getting a lot of approaches from charities. So it was decided, he decided that he would support one particular charity, which he's still the figurehead of all those years later. So 1976 to now, so I can't do the maths, but that's something like 45 years. He's been the figurehead of action medical research for children. So that's one of the things he does. He's also involved for, I believe now, with UNICEF on an international basis. So yes, I think he'd make an absolutely excellent ambassador. And you never know, you might get an offer from somewhere. Well, if he's campaigning for UNICEF, he's already on the road, isn't he? I mean, that's exactly where he should be. And then we've got one more question, one more question, which is really for you, Rob, which is about the other characters. It's not about Paddington. It's about the children. Did you like developing the children? Did you like working on them as well as working on Paddington? There, I am unmuted. You don't want to have a random sneeze going on around. Yes, I did like developing the other characters. The thing about Paddington is that he is such a visually arresting character that you can be tempted as an illustrator to focus your entire illustration on him. And it wouldn't be right because he has, the whole point of his character is to live in the world with other characters. And the other characters have to have equal weight, they have to have equal lives, and you have to somehow or other show that through your illustration. It's one of the things that makes the film version so nice because Paddington, the artistry and creating the CGI Paddington, allows that character to just flow seamlessly in with the human characters. And with illustration I tried to do the same thing, although obviously I don't have the facility to be quite as realistic. So I rely on drawing everybody very loosely and sloppily. And as long as they're loose and sloppy together in the same way, it seems to work. Very good. Thank you very much. And then this is our final question. Alison, this is a question about the exhibition. It's what do you think is the most exciting item in the exhibition, which guests are unlikely to have ever seen before? Oh gosh. Well I suppose there are two things that have been loaned by the Michael Bond estate, which is the notebook, the little trunk of the clothes that are made for the original bear and their kind of two stand items that are in the current exhibition. Yeah I would agree with that, the little trunk in which your mother made, is that right Karen? Your mother made the trunk and the clothes? No actually my father made it, he was very very handy and he made it complete with all the brass fittings and everything. I think my mother made some of the clothes that were inside it. That is a wonderful treasure, I agree. I think that's something that nobody will have ever seen that before. So that is just a wonderful item in amongst all the other things in the collection. And that brings us to the close of this lovely event. Thank you all so much Karen, Bob, Hugh, Alison for your contributions to this very wide-ranging conversation. And really thank you Michael Bond for giving us Paddington. Thank you all and good night.