 stuff there okay okay but yeah most EFAP streams are on the Molo channel and then you don't have any of the live archives on uh there we go hello we are live hello i will i will start on my end hold on on the old twitch huh yeah but also on kick oh twitch and kick yeah have you got yourself hundred million dollar deal by any chance no i don't have that pull with streaming adam works too hard i mean i would like to just kind of you know watch youtube videos and leave the room and make money a bit oh my goodness here we are yeah i assume i think i've seen you tweet a bit about it but that that got itself a new chapter recently i just i have there's very few people on the internet that i will just publicly say like i don't have any intellectual respect for it all and xqc is one of them what what about the time he said that well they're well that one time i think he streamed overwatch at some point so there you go he yeah yeah but he played winston oh well even i even i know that that does not mean much so i can jump in and click and then i could leave who wow look at me we're not covering the xqc debate yet chat not yet okay gosh you have to wait for that yeah so it is rather amusing do you do you happen to check that out it'll mr kline um yeah i was uh i caught probably 40 minutes worth of it but i like based on how it was like i'd imagine like the entire thing was just like i don't know if i had to watch the whole thing know how the entire thing the highlights where he yells at each other he's bald and the he crawls on the floor doing the verb yeah yeah that was a weird one because it seemed like well i guess i'll hold my thoughts on that for now if we want to talk about that later um i mean you know i don't mind talking about it now if you want as a sort of while we wait for it will come in people are sort of filing in yeah he he has it's really unfortunate because it seems like when people are bringing up legitimate criticisms even if he doesn't find them legitimate in his mind he doesn't see it as criticism he sees it as an attack and so that's why and i i'm doing like a psycho analysis here without any degree but it feels like that's why um his immediate response is to just go like well you've done bad things too right it's you're insecure you're jealous of my success your content sucks yeah yeah so so when you see what he's doing it's kind of a reflection of how he's perceiving what Ethan is doing essentially you know like he feels as though he's being attacked in that way so he's levying it back at him when Ethan is not really doing that uh oh i mean it was funny because it was crossfire with Ethan's criticism with Hasan and as well in that like this podcast he has with him like Hasan was highlighting like i i do stuff like this and Ethan just being like yeah i don't just feeling yeah we all know we all know my my impression is that he kind of gave Hasan some shit at least recently for it um he did apologize for though um i guess because he felt like he came on too hard but yeah no that's how it goes and also yeah he's got like a fucking podcast with him yeah i even just came out swinging with the whole thing and then sort of looked back after it like oh shit i probably should have said nicer things i think he really hates people abusing um i guess transformative content considering all the shit he's had to go through legally yeah yeah it kind of it kind kind of delegitimizes people's honest efforts you know excuse me immediately as soon as he's on kicky streams like the dark night he wonders why they got pissed at him like what what i should just be allowed to the sorry i'm that's a bit too i was gonna say i understood everything you said that's that's more like it there you go because i was about to say you were doing like a kebek y accent but not even xqc is like he doesn't sound like other other kebek people he has his own weird thing it doesn't sound like any other people he doesn't sound like people it is it is a very unique voice uh and it's funny whenever we sort of see him in his natural state you've got tens of thousands of people that are all chill with it but then you put him on like a platform with people around familiar and they're all like what the fuck is he saying he's like i know i mean you you i the first couple times that i saw any kind of xqc on the internet at all i couldn't understand what the fuck he was saying at this point i understand most of what he's saying i think you just kind of have to get used to it you do eventually become a bit of an accent on its own whisperer um the crazy thing is that if you have like about five people then one of them is going to understand the sentence and then they can share with the rest and it's sort of maybe it's like a translation system then at that point if you hear those words sometimes twitter shares these videos where it's like a word is said but if you read one or the other or think about one or the other you'll hear that word because it it's the way it's said it can sound like two different words it's kind of like how he speaks all the time and so if you're not thinking about what he's actually saying then it's really hard to figure it out but hey you know communication yeah um he's a weird one he is and he's just the next chapter it's gonna happen again in years from interval every year i think of it all the major players of trying to point this stuff out like jack films or mudahar or um the dark viper guys is it's all very um depressing like it's not gonna get fixed i mean it's gonna get fixed when it ends in a lawsuit yeah i feel like it takes one company with enough um yeah or individual like you know yeah to to really be to really set that precedent where it's like yeah you can't just steal shit no one wants to be that guy but i think like i mean is it's not as if it isn't really case law already yeah it's it's not as if we don't have other legal examples to point to as to why that's not fair use like ray william johnson lost his oh yeah fair use case right so and and his commentary was more transformative than xqc's but it was still at the end of the day at the end of the day people were watching equals three to get a compilation of new internet videos they weren't really watching for ray william johnson's commentary as much as some people pretend they were um you know his commentary was just like oh wow check out this cool internet video that's blowing up wow that was what happened in the video it's like basically what sniper rolls do it right if i narrate what's happening i can claim it as my own but in a moment on youtube and have a menial jillian views yeah yeah and especially when it's like not even live streamed you know like these are this is you creating yeah something that should you know supposedly transformative but the commentary just isn't there polished product this is their creative yeah yeah well i think i think that there is like an inherent nature to live streaming and reacting to content that like you don't know how much commentary you're going to be able to provide as you're doing it but then yeah the big argument is just okay so then when you upload it on youtube you either get your editor to cut out you know the giant chunks of time where you're not adding commentary where context isn't needed to understand the rest of the criticisms or you just don't upload it as well as you're streaming and you're like oh i haven't said anything in four minutes maybe this isn't the best video for me to react to and i should do something else yeah yeah but people hide behind that people hide behind a lot of things people people just want to steal shit uh where where tibia is saying ray william johnson only lost for one video out of five in the court case i mean that's okay he's still he's still lost right yeah and and and you're right as for as long as there's no repercussions then why would they stop they're gonna get more and more bold yeah the fact that he could stream like a season of anime and then i guess the kick people like hey don't do that and then he's like okay delete the voids whatever like it's weird because you'd have to pay me to watch anime but some people get paid for watching anime why i just like it's a strange world strange world man it's so it's crazy to to think that like even streaming the dark night to like a hundred thousand people you're not well enough yeah yeah yeah like like that's a that's a company like warner brothers could easily suit him for that right yeah they're one of the big you know we're one of the big ones it's crazy crazy you got away with it because like if you want to set a precedent you know it's it's not like oh you downloaded a torrent and then you don't even know how many people like it seeded to or yeah you know all these other clear questions about like damages and like how many people downloaded the movie from this person all that shit like it's a pretty direct like you streamed it to this many people this is how many people watch the movie for free it's pretty it's pretty easy to determine yeah and you think it's pretty straightforward it'd be like the guy streamed to tens of thousands he got a shit ton of money and it was all with content that doesn't belong to him what do you guys want to do about it well we know he's rich we could sue his ass part of it could just be that they don't know i guess and that it's all deleted now maybe you do wonder about the people who run these companies and what they know and how tuned in they are they got yeah i think a lot of it longer i'm gonna buy the old boomers around these companies thing i mean i think a lot of um where they get their info about it is just through like automated systems like content id and if twitch doesn't have or sorry if kick doesn't have that then it might be more difficult for it to get to them because then like what how are people gonna get to it they're either gonna have to be like active on twitter and following the types of people that would be talking about xqc or they're gonna have to like have some sort of direct email chain or dm system that they answer that someone sent to them of x's stream before it got deleted right so i don't know who knows if they saw it well i mean it's an embarrassing mess and the big thing that gets people incensed about it is just seeing those screenshots where they they they're in the search results as well um especially when this video is like yeah knows um yeah haven't seen that one i mean it's probably done promotion for lamino at least all this crazy shit especially with the drummer around it now yeah it was the controversy that did it not the thing itself i think um yeah he hasn't spoken about it at all though uh he hasn't said anything makes you wonder what his thoughts yeah i wonder sometimes you want to ask and i mean it doesn't yeah like if all right well no if you got something else go ahead i was just gonna add like it doesn't matter if there are some youtubers or streamers that are okay with it and find it to be a good thing like you can you can pirate an entire movie and then the creator of that movie could be like oh well i like you i you know this is fine but that doesn't mean that it was like a legal thing to do that doesn't mean that that's like the process that you should be doing and just like oh because nothing happened this time it was there was a call it i think it was the discord that was like why did they have the copyright protection and sort of uh fair use stuff for the dissent when the director was with them surely he gave them permission oh you sweet summer child oh that's how that works no i made it dammit that's my movie that's not what he sounds like you don't own anything in the studio system all righty well uh that that about sums up the horrors of the react stuff that's gonna like i said have another chapter we will uh on the next e-fat we're gonna check out the xqc uh ethand debate we're gonna have dark viper on i'm afraid that is uh an impossibility now so we're gonna have to do it next week more than likely with uh i'm not sure who's gonna come on for it but i'll sort it out no worries the reason this is happening is an impossible don't worry moeller i'll come on i'll i'll bring some um i'll come under our podcast and talk about it scheduling issues and things getting in the way you know how it goes um unfortunate but uh the reason this is happening today as opposed to tomorrow i'll probably upload this tomorrow so it kind of counts as a saturday if it is simply again because of scheduling that's just how things work different people available different you know it's funny i when i told you i could do it today i didn't realize i had my patreon hangout today so i had to change it because i didn't want to be like oh oops sorry i forgot about this so i moved it well you're we're here now we've nailed it it's all done yeah um you're welcome thank you of course and you know what we should probably get started because your time is precious as is everyone's i'm sure i i assumed that this would take a while say i've got a bit of time i'll be like five minutes i've got it blocked i've got it blocked uh okay cool thank you so uh i was just mind and moon business on the interwebs and then i got a couple messages being like oh my god mutually what do you what have you got to say about why am i absolutely destroying drinker and i was like what's going on and i actually thought for a second you made like a mainline video and i was like oh shit why but then it was uploads highlights and then it got interesting too because i think the initial one had uh editing flaws in it or something got taken down so people like speculate yeah it was uh yeah it was missing so i was coming back i was on a flight from like montreal to toronto um and i was listening to it on two times speed just because the video was published just making sure like it's all good or whatever or like you know just kind of also refreshing myself just on the discourse just you know when i'm when i'm at an airport it's when i have the most free time basically and uh then i there's a part of the video where i was like about to talk about the sound of freedom controversy and explain like some of the twitter clips and stuff and then that was missing i was like uh oh and so then yeah olivia uh fixed it there was basically uh like a brb screen for a while that needed to be cut out but uh she accidentally selected the whole previous like fucking half hour so there was a huge chunk missing and so we just decided to reupload it fair enough but a lot of people like why did you do it someone to take it down or is he you make a mistake or something i was just like i don't fucking copyright claims and then because i'm i'm a clever boy i was just like i think it's taken from twitch just go to twitch and that's where it will be did you sub did i no i don't go on twitch i'm sorry it's a scary place to either i that's fine i'm just curious if you had to watch a billion ads while you watch through the bud i uh i think so but i don't really mind it's okay um so yeah we're gonna we're gonna check it out today with yms and see if uh any any discussion can come of this huge war between film review titans on youtube just fucking destroying each other i'm trying to make it sound a little bit more interesting than epically destroyed yeah the facts and logic yeah um you gotta watch together link there i think one of us isn't in here all right hold on hold on let me do this yeah should be able to have some fun about films and all that and all that jazz industry in the room hey i'm in the room uh oh my god he's calling from in the room okay never mind from inside the room okay well there you are so we're gonna have past why am i two and a half hours with pusing yes you know what you signed up for this is normal okay and then we got future why am i so we got past drink a future me past rustle brand future rags future fringy look at current rags i don't know present rags no no no no we got present away oh my god oh my god what is happening i have booked all four of us to be talking minutes from now it's crazy it's gonna come true i swear but uh okay okay yeah see there you go so do i do right which which one am i now present you or do i talk to future you or the future me you'll be losing i'm i'm every day of my life i'm talking to future people that's crazy man it's one of them fill us off what i've noticed is that everything i do future rags complains about so that guy he needs to fucking chill needs to calm the fuck but i've noticed what i've noticed is that every beach turns you old if you think about it oh my god it's the beach that turns you old i haven't seen every beach is old good i suppose all beach it's very it's very bad it's bad enough that i've held off on reviewing it because i wanted to give it a proper treatment i want to do oh you're taught oh shaman on my shaman yeah it's funny it's really really really bad is it a good movie no you just said it's a very bad very what wait from him nine charm along yeah apparently he's done a bad one well i guess i guess and it came out the same year as sa spiral sa spiral was worse though yes that was sa spiral was really bad is that was cool so spiral rather than just sa sa spiral it's from the book of spiral from the book of sa yeah hello hi everyone hi fringy hello hello hi fringy you made it i like sa spiral okay uh i didn't either um i like how strong she is like so your your clicking play will influence things on my end yes if i click play would it influence it on your end i should have yes i should have warned you though you haven't shown the uh the url or anything have you no i don't have anything on my screen good if you want to get the screen i'm just at my webcam if you want to get the screen shown uh just make sure to only show the screen and yes if you pause it pauses sure we pause it pauses you yeah i mean it's all audio anyway i don't need to show the screen okay he probably remembers it yeah by uh he probably remembers it was in the old july of 26 an all time away uh do you want any context before we hit play i was not bald just so we're clear he's context um okay yeah uh uh this was the night before christmas flight to montreal for fantasia film festival which i recently got back from was fun um typically the day before uh i leave somewhere i do like some trailer reactions and just make sure that there's like enough uh stream highlights content to give to olivia just to make sure that there's like constant um uploads on that channel um this particular so the critical drinker is someone that has been mentioned quite a bit in like various communities that i've seen or on like reddit or like someone in like my sardonic cast subreddit was like hey you should have him on the podcast but then a bunch of other people were like no and blah blah blah and it seemed like the discourse was like really divisive around and um i i watch a lot of like political commentary channels and i um i'm really interested in like u.s politics and you know a lot of political pundits some grifters etc etc and so when in my recommended feed i saw critical drinker on russell black russell brand that immediately piqued my interest um and so i was like okay i'll go over this thinking that the length of the video was reflective of what was on youtube and not understanding that it would be like a much longer video but um going in with you know some preconceptions but generally an open mind um not you know i didn't i didn't go into it thinking like i'm making a hit piece but like you know let's see what see what he says see if it matches up with um my uh slice of the pie my my limited perspective on what his channel is which you know anybody's perspective on any channel is going to be relatively limited to some degree so um yeah all right well that's that's what this video is obviously our perspective is more so very familiar with both of you guys and so uh it's interesting to see what it may be said here and there about uh him with with a passing familiarity as well as i thought it was interesting that you said like it's you know the idea of floating him to be a guest on sardonic ass would have been shot down uh you probably make for a pretty good guest i'd imagine and i i feel like it'd be an even uh possibly better experience with there being plenty to disagree about you know at least in theory yeah yeah well um we're doing a bunch of like reorganizing on the podcast so yeah i'm not going to write it off like we'll see what happens i just have to like discuss it with you know the others um uh you guys able to talk about yourselves right a minute by fucking alarm clocks going off which late wake up is it wake up wake up one of those alarm clocks that takes a minute to shut off it's no it's just a minute away that's all it's not on my phone it takes a minute to get a how where is the minute go get it i think i gave an average amount of time it's probably going to take less than the microphone mention but the idea is to give me enough time to return and maybe have like a 20 second you can go do it you know i i'm gonna be back right by now i'm gonna go do it right now well that's the thing going off now it's like it's a bit late alarm clock i don't want your businesses there but yeah one 35 um it's an odd time for it to go off for the sub the bucks guy all right well i'm all ours up for the podcast that was his timer that goes off and case he's late that's his emergency backup timer wow that's uh a lot that's like half an hour off the yeah yeah i told him earlier if you're gonna have a backup timer you might as well have it just set to the same time as your your regular timer there's no real reason for your backup timer to be half an hour after the first one is supposed to go off uh well unless you snooze like you snooze and then then you wake up later you know well you do lose but not with a backup alarm that's the idea right i use my phone as my timer you see that it didn't take me a minute but i gave myself a minute he was to really sprinted it was a minute away he took off like a shot i mean i'm pretty powerful and fast so i can achieve those sorts of things anyway shall we get started i think the format here is that you're just gonna be listening to old yms and then talking to new yms about old yms that's the plan all right right all right here's one um i have not commented on the critical drinker publicly but there's been a lot of talk from people on like the sardonic ass subreddit and like he's definitely wait is there an option to do 1.25 or 1.5 speed uh i think so yeah i actually don't know because i i think we i think we could save a lot of time without play necessarily yeah we can go to 1.25 in case we don't want to go too fast sure like so over two two and a half hours like we're saving like fucking minutes 45 minutes literal minutes 30 minutes um the before we progress too far because of recent drama just want to make sure yms do we have your permission to react to your video uh i mean we're it's you don't need my permission because we're providing substantive commentary and criticism over top of it and thanks uh thanks for uh going with the meme but you are correct i was expecting to just go no that we move on we don't we don't actually yes that is true yeah well the permission of the copyright holder to France that is true like responding to questions with correctly yeah rags that's good that's good that's that's great all right he's definitely a subject of conversation when it comes to online film reviewers because he seems to embody this sort of i if you want my full perspective of like art and viewing art and your experience with art it's it's really just like anybody can have their own experience right and so i've always been open to this idea of like you know even if somebody comes at a film from a completely different perspective as me for is that Russell Brands icon the the purple corvid there the little bird it's just a thing at the beginning i don't know it's an official icon the the fucking the logo on his show is like a big fucking covid ball i thought it was that yeah oh my goodness he uh we'll get it down with the sickness oh no yeah you know various art you know various artistic reasons or even political reasons like i'm kind of interested in that i'm kind of interested in you know especially why the critical drinker has like such a large audience you know why it's relating to so many people um he got like a russell crow interview like russell crow loves his shit oh my god two interviews with two russells true that's true the trifecta now i think it's a fetish to make sure it was russell crow and not somebody else hold on you know like russell crow like just flat out watches his shit which is like really interesting and so like i think it after a certain point like they're having like a full on interview here right uh he looks more and more like Gabe Newell as the years go by i think um his final form didn't give him a del Toro put on a tweet saying as the days go by uh russell crow looks more more like me or something i thought it's funny it's like his dream he'll they'll they'll reach equilibrium brother it's russell crow man and he's right here that's that's kind of interesting right and so at a certain point regardless of how much a lot of people might not like the critical drinker i think it's important to try and understand why he's connecting with people to try and understand what it is about him that is speaking to people in such a particular way where the fact like he's got like almost two millions absolutely the one thing i'm curious about those why would you want to look at a interview with russell brand rather than watch say like two or three of his videos because i because a lot of what people will post it on like reddit and all this other stuff is just like clips from those videos and i've seen a few of them and a lot of the times he'll say something and people will be like oh but he's like playing a character um and i don't know i wouldn't begin to know like which exact videos to watch to get like the best sort of like representative pie of what he is right whereas in an interview um again i didn't go into this with the premise of like let me try to understand everything about critical drinker i was mostly just interviewed sorry interested about this interaction between him and russell brand and just wanted to provide like a little bit of context before clicking on it about what my thoughts on critical drinker are or what my expectations or you know relative degrees of like familiarity or unfamiliarity are just to give some context before i start the video right so um yeah i mean i've seen a few of his videos but i just i don't know so if you like click on my channel like a lot of i don't i don't know what is even representative of my content in terms of like by volume like maybe by frequency it's a lot of like in theater reviews that i don't really put a lot of like heavy amount of like research or uh time spent editing or constructing or jokes into but they're just you know recommendations for things in theaters but you know the selling point of my channel would be like the full yms reviews right yeah um like i would i would say that like the selling point of his channel would be his um why modern movies sucks videos would you say that that it's gotta be the coverage of sort of the mainstream successes and failures of uh hollywood i would argue so like if you watched his dialer destiny video combined with uh maybe like a dead reckoning and then something like the whale that would probably give you a good selection of how he praises how he criticizes and then when he goes off the beaten track slightly i know it's an oscar winner but it i think he covered it before that so is that at the very least okay um yeah i i i will say um before we even get to it like the one thing that i'm definitely giving you guys a point on is like um when i made this video uh i was under the impression that like his recommendations were purely limited to the ones with uh recommends in the title and then between you know you messaging me and me being on this stream you know i scrolled down the channel a bit you know trying to see if i can maybe get in like one or two more videos before having this conversation and i noticed that there's other you know there's other videos where he's like recommending other films that are just not you know i scrolled down the list using the search term recommends because i thought that that's how he categorized his videos but there are a bunch more and also i will also say this um i read the title of boiling point but i got it confused with the movie hard boiled and boiling point is a lesser known movie that i haven't seen yet that i would like to a brilliant film that i highly recommend yes it's supposed to be like a winner right yes that is pretty impressive one i think yes very impressively shot yes everyone go see probably watch that soon yeah highly recommended really good stuff um but yeah so if someone was to say like ask a lot of questions about your career slash what you offer slash why are you popular i probably would point to them funnily um it depends on which time they have a course if they're like i got half an hour i'd be like hmm maybe half an hour of the lion king video um would quite capture what they can get from you at least why i would argue your popular compared like it's not that people don't like your um your uh quicky reviews but i don't think people think of that at your best no no i i would say that like um the stuff that gets the views and the stuff that like sells the channel is a lot of what is on the most viewed tab for me um but there's also stuff that i personally really like i i really value the like yearly list videos i think that those are very useful for people and uh like well presented generally i haven't done one in a while but i'm trying my best to catch up on that um and then like certain analysis series like synecdoche new york again gotta catch up on it but just been fucking hey that's deliberate it's thematically relevant it is it is deliberate and thematically relevant um so yeah uh i guess all i'm trying to say here is that i would have advised against checking out his interview with russell brand if you wanted to understand drinker because uh this is gonna be as you'd expect several questions delivered by someone who doesn't know who he is not really looking for him to answer them as opposed to just having him say stuff and then moving on so so would you are you like do you share my perspective that perspective that russell brand is kind of like a grifter um i'm not gonna go that far i just because i'm not familiar enough with his stuff i just wouldn't recommend this as a good dive into if me and drinker did an interview maybe i would recommend that because i would be desperate to get all the information out of him but even then i probably just going through his actual videos you know like three of them yeah okay sure his typical videos yeah that's why i'm saying that it's like they're like 10 minutes yeah um yeah yeah people question i don't know i don't know anything about russell brand at the end of the you know at the end of the stream on that day uh i'm trying to imagine like the alternate universe where i was like oh i'm gonna go through like four or five of critical drinkers videos or something right i feel like that i well you know maybe maybe it would be this way maybe it wouldn't be but like my feelings about it is like i feel like that would appear as more of like a like kind of a deliberate like searching for a particular um outcome sort of thing whereas like my understanding of like just a full interview even if it is with russell brand um you know like you're kind of just give it it's like a podcast format where you're given like any number of kind of free for opportunities in time to just kind of like explain your positions on things and based on what he explained in this interview and uh i guess i guess we'll just keep playing the video but like based on what he explained in this video it's like i don't know there's uh there's some things where if he didn't if he didn't mean that then he didn't say it you know and if it's if there's somewhere else on his channel that he meant something different then i would like to be pointed towards it but yeah okay we'll get we'll get to it when we go there it's yeah all i'm saying is that russell brand's not uh no offense to him again don't know much about him um i don't think he's listening that hard he he's like it's a guest i asked to ask them sort of basic questions as well as stuff that relates to russell's interest in him to some extent but i think you even notice like there's some answers drinker gives that you could easily ask him more but russell brand just moves on because he's an interviewer he's just like right time to do this time to this even to the extent i'm not sure he notices whether or not his question was fully answered sometimes because it's just presented as you speak now there's at least one question where he like he asked him again like later in the interview right yeah yeah no that's the thing i do think he kind of just provided the same answer to he not only pays somewhat attention but he also seems to actually have some level of investment in drinker's channel i'm not sure exactly what it is it's just the there's a dynamic happening and they've got to keep things moving that's what i'm saying okay it's got almost two million subs like the guy's doing fucking great and most of what he's talking about is essentially just like hollywood's woke right and so is it not strange that you said that while also conceding you haven't really seen any of his videos other than maybe could you say like three or four from i mean yeah from the sample size that i have and when i say that i have checked out like i don't mean like oh i clicked on a video that you know thread of people dunking on him or something like i've just i've i've clicked on his some of his videos out of curiosity i've went to his channel and clicked on some random ones and you know maybe not finished every every one of them because it's not really my thing but um the perhaps perhaps we find some disagreement uh with me using the term woke but i think that i don't know if we're gonna disagree that much that we're kind of talking about the same thing right like he has an entire video on how men are improperly used in film and yeah you can't have you can't have men doing like yeah yeah yeah um if you were asking me though because i i've pretty much seen all of his videos the uh if you ask me what does he focus on i'd say oh it's pretty much writing you'll always uh in every one of these videos primarily talk about the stories and uh being told the you know sometimes you'll talk about filmmaking in a little bit more depth but i mean it is 10 minutes so you get what you understand you'd get do you do you feel like even even with writing as the focus do you feel like there's like kind of a political slant or angle to it not necessarily like a nefarious one or like a like a dishonest one but just one that you know attracts an audience of people that might want to hear um you know i'm not saying he's grifting but like just invariably yeah his so his thing is that um there's a sort of point of view in hollywood that's uh way too popular that gets uh primarily focused before writing does and that he thinks that it like as a core as a foundation that goal will destroy a lot of what you can create with stories because you'll automatically prevent yourself from doing particular things um for like stereo examples it would just be like the doctor strange wasn't allowed in wander vision because kevin feige said you can't have a white man saving the day when it's uh about wonders it's wander's story you don't need to phrase it like that to argue storytelling yet they did you uh you have like the boy's mave wasn't allowed to die even though she clearly should have died because she was uh bisexual they're like we can't bury a gaze that sort of stuff like basically um concerns about matter or societal issues that bleed into your writing so hard that they like they just create contradictions and fuck ups so so would you agree that we're essentially talking about the same thing even if um we are like it's just that uh i wouldn't describe drinker that's what he primarily does i would say he reviews films from a point of view of writing quality or entertainment first okay um so would you say that the majority of his content doesn't like reflect that at all but the the majority of what gets talked about of his content is that yes in the same way that everyone says what mohler does is talk about how objectively correct he is like it's it's a complete fuck up it just represents the people who like it's unfortunate how many people don't watch the channel at all be it me or drinker or yourself and they'll have they'll have this takeaway that's absolutely fucking alien it's like that's not at all what it's talking about i'm familiar with that yeah and that's that's why i think i said to you that um i don't find your i i completely understand why you would have said what you've said because it makes sense that people would have told you over and over again that this is the case like that's that's okay i still i i i do still have like criticisms in that realm though uh but we'll i guess we'll get to them my biggest crit the critical drinker as a person that has not watched all of his videos obviously um but as a person that's seen you know like i've clicked on a fair amount of things and maybe not recently but i've clicked on a fair amount of things uh and have essentially just walked away with the idea of like okay you're a person creating film reviews for like the average audience member but not like one that's like really into film is like an art form is that like an incorrect thing to say like yes uh he's very invested in the art form yes okay but i guess i i i would also i would also i guess clarify that there's different thresholds of what people would consider to be like art form versus you know like film is entertainment um and sure entertainment is an art form um and i'm not saying like oh yeah like everybody has to fucking enjoy synecdoche in new york or something um but you know i got it i got like a good amount of comments from people that watch both of our channels mine and drinkers um that you know our fans of the both of us uh agreeing with that sentiment at least that like um my channel is more focused on uh like art house films uh or like film as an art form and exploring that um whereas the drinkers channel although you know talking about writing writing is a part of the art form um it is for a much more broad audience uh of average filmgoers not saying that as an insult i guess but you know that helps to describe uh the amount of people connecting with it too out of curiosity would you say that most other channels would you say that we you will do not care about the art form as opposed to the entertainment i don't i i didn't make that claim i don't think i'm asking that that's the case i don't i don't believe so you don't believe wait sorry i mean i mean i don't believe that you don't care about film as an art form to clarify what i'm asking is you seem to have concluded that he doesn't uh care for the art form versus the entertainment factor would you say the same of our channel i i think that that is uh rephrasing of what i said i don't i don't think i said that he doesn't care we can go let's go if you want to rewind we can i said don't care compared to the entertainment factor no i but well care is a very strong word because that implies a level of intent okay whereas i i've never i didn't attribute that so i i i just think that invariably like someone's tastes right a lot of people can a lot of people don't want to watch a lot of the movies that i'm interested in right uh huh um and critical drinker does have a mass appeal by you know a lot of what he focuses on focuses on is like owned by disney right um and that's not to say oh he doesn't care at all about film as an art form i'm just saying like comparatively towards you know a lot of other well you might be right um but i might have misunderstood what you said if you will play one more time just be sure it's member but not like one that's like really into film is like an art form but people who are not into film is an art form well into is it can can describe like a pretty big range you know so like into comparatively so to better understand if i'm compared to like my channel okay but does that mean then you would say like if i'm all are not really into movies as an art form or film i wouldn't say not really into i would say like from from my limited perspective of like the types of movies being covered across everyone's channels um i would say that that there is more of an entertainment value focus on channels that primarily um you know that that the more of the more of a slice of a pie that a channel makes up of focusing on you know like disney movies and like just in your face like this is what's advertised to you so everybody's already kind of having discussion on it um i would say that there is more of a like an art form focus on channels that you know talk about more subversive or artistic or uh challenging or against the grain or because because to me that's what art is is like you know but i assume you do somebody something new right like if if there's so much familiarity in in an art form it's it's not it's not really art anymore for me now and i'm not saying that is like a an absolutist statement i'm just saying that is like a comparative statement like you put an incredible amount of weight in sort of how things push the bounds or do something that is yeah because otherwise what's the point what's the fucking point of art like i don't want to see the same shit over and over again like it's not it's not art if it's if you're just consuming the same thing over and over again right so this is this is like kind of partially like a philosophical uh kind of conversation right but well i a question do you believe that like basically all movies are arts and that they vary in terms of being i mean bad or well here i could i could say i can go for it i think every like you if we're if we're talking about like definitions or the philosophical definition that i would have i would say everything's art i would say life's fucking art right uh so when i say that something's like more or less art it's in the same vein as saying you know there's no there's no true objectivity but something can be more or less objective right you can you can have someone in the jury for uh like a crime and it's like okay they know the victim that's less objective than someone who doesn't know the victim sitting on the jury although no one is truly objective right so there's varying degrees of scale without being absolutist about it i think that i think that anything and everything can be considered art but i i would argue that the more artful uh pieces of media that exist are the ones that are not showing us things that have already been shown before i would you um i would you define art if somebody was to ask you what you think art really like is if someone was asked what is art what would you what would you say just as a broad sort of you know casual thing to say to him um it's whatever it's whatever someone makes of it right so if it is whatever um someone experiences that can have them think about something in a different way right like this conversations art like it literally is like we're pre we're producing video content and it doesn't even necessarily have to be like a conversation in a real room with someone can be art uh something that can can influence or alter your experience on this planet and have you think about something i think that's that's art and so so then yeah i mean like it holds true to my um statements that you know the less the the more familiar and the more recycled something is i feel like that's less artistic because it doesn't make you think about anything because it's just it's just the same shit over and over right so but i don't know i don't know if we should get i don't know if we should get stun locked on this though i don't do the whole two minutes through the stun locked one guide thing i fucking hate twitch culture for that we're just talking about what we talk about okay so the critical drink it would you say i'm just i'm just saying i don't want it to be 12 efforts you can uh obviously you feel free to spend as much time or as little as you want but i was gonna say the drink it from what you said do you think the audience takeaway is that he doesn't really concern himself very critically about the art form from what you said um i i don't think that his audience feels that way but i think that there's a lot i think his audience i think there's a higher percentage of people in his audience that don't care about film as an art form in the way that i would uh compared to my audience which is i think a very fair thing to say so i think that he very much does but that those who watch movies just to be entertained are very much going to gravitate toward his channel as well so i think that's fair yeah because it's a very uh the types of media that he talks about generally are very like widely well known and appealing and also also like and this is not to say that this therefore means his content is bad or that he's grifting but there is there there's a big portion of his uh well i don't know how big but there's you know larger than channels that don't talk about uh like i guess culture war kind of things or at least have the uh lens of it reflected in in the content there's a there's a higher percentage of people in that audience that are not necessarily interested in film so i talk i will wait for it in the video but i i talked anecdotally about um somebody that i know that kind of fell down like a conspiracy rabbit hole and like the content like they get their news from like bit shoot basically and the only film channel that they even knew about was the critical drinker and they're like oh yeah i like his videos and it's not because they care about film as as an art form it's because there's kind of a uh implied whether intentional or not by the drinker whether intentional or not there is kind of like an implied uh level of intent uh from this we could say the filmmakers we could say the studios we could say corporations we could you know some people might even imply like the government or something but there's this overarching sort of like um you know we talk about how men can't be presented in this way there are people that watch his channel i'm assuming this but i i don't think that it's an unfair assumption i think that there's a there's a good chunk of people that watch his channel that probably that that aren't the type of person that think that uh there's like a nefarious plot to try and like feminize men right like there's people that believe that and i'm not saying that critical drinker is the reason why they believe it but that there's enough of that sort of conspiracy shit going on on the internet that his channel is not through any necessarily any intent of his own but his channel is kind of like reaffirming those beliefs in a way without directly saying it and again i'm not saying he's being like sneaky or manipulative or or like crypto but i'm saying that like just because those things exist uh those those different beliefs because they exist and because they essentially complement each other in terms of how uh the the what's the word the uh like perspective of the channel the the premise of a like a some of the content on the channel it seems to complement uh itself in that way like those two types of demographics i mean to draw us back though uh because what you've said now about the context of what you're talking about here sounds way more reasonable and and accurate the only trouble i'd have now is the i assume you'd agree that this applies to 99.9 percent of youtube film reviews channels 99.9 sure what yeah like that i'm talking about a very specific like we're talking about like uh i'm not talking about the feminizing stuff i'm talking all the way back about what you said focusing audiences that are drawn in for entertainment oh sure yeah right yeah there's people that watch my videos for the memes yeah i'm i'm i'm not as much concerned about like um you know like we could jeremy fucking johns talks about only popular movies you know like it's it the the the premise of what i'm talking about the the only reason why uh the critical drinker is like a subject of conversation for me and it makes it interesting is not just like oh he covers popular movies uh most of the time and doesn't go to film festivals or whatever it's that it's that through the lens of which him covering those films it's not just oh there's people uh that are looking for entertainment it's that there are people that have this uh very bizarre conspiracy theory of how the world works and that there's someone trying to change culture in a way uh for nefarious reasons and again i'm not saying that critical drinker believes those things or is even aware uh that he's his content is necessarily complimenting those things but you know like the the the the a lot of the takeaways of his videos are a lot of the lens through which he uh creates his content is essentially like okay like male characters can't be presented like this because you know they're trying to uh they're trying to correct a perceived uh problem of how male characters have been represented um and and since there's a lot of it that that does talk about that i i feel like those types of people are getting what they want out of his content and again it doesn't mean that uh he's doing anything like dishonest that doesn't mean that he's intentionally trying to play towards them i'm just trying to stay squarely within the context of introducing the channel as a channel for people who aren't really into the art form or so into the entertainment and that if that's true with what you've said i just want to clarify that that is the vast overwhelming majority of channels on youtube arguably including my own if we were to simplify it without the context of that other conspiracy stuff that i'm talking about then yes okay but as the as the video as the highlight yeah we can we can tack a little one by one i do clarify and talk talk about it more if is that like an incorrect thing to say like i know people personally that don't know anything about movies but they know who the can i pee now while while the video is just meets saying what i just said okay i'll be right back you can keep playing everything like there's people so one of my friends has a sibling who is uh who has fallen down kind of like a conspiracy rabbit hole and gets their news from like bit shoot oh my gosh it's like an echo and are like concerned about like how george soros is going to make people eat bugs or something and like i i talked to her and her boyfriend trying to like have like a common great because like you know i'm not i'm not going to confront people directly about these sorts of things like i'm more interested in like learning who they are and understanding them and like even if they're like they have wildly different beliefs and are insane you know i i just i tried to relate to him and just you know her boyfriend and just being like you know what sort of things you watch on youtube you know like film stuff and he's like oh i watch i watch the critical drinker and that will always leave an impression on me the fact that like this guy who well i'm not sure well i don't know how much we should say while he's gone but because the critical drinker has such broad appeal many many people will be in that you know in that's in that group of all kinds of walks of life and of interests like my my dad my dad watches critical drinker and he's just there's a huge amount of that he's just very easily digestible content not that it's bad or anything like that but it you know because of the size of it because of the you know i think of drinker's talents in the way that he talks about videos and or movies and because he does have a passion for it all sorts of people can watch his videos and be you know satisfied and learn things and beg you'll consider it insightful so um so you've just mentioned this uh friend of a friend or whatever that um has a lot of sort of conspiracy brain sort of things but also happens to watch critical drinker um do you think that's a fair thing to bring up before we've seen anything to do with drinker yet um i mean if i was trying to present it as anything other than just an anecdotal experience but i i didn't i made it pretty clear and i even use the word anecdotal and i yeah i mean it's more about going through the video and seeing right sorry you did say that it stuck with you that yeah because that's a very bizarre thing to hear from from someone did you ask is it they didn't even know about your channel i asked i i thought that they would have known about your shit because you're like associated with like if he did they didn't even know about your stuff if he did i doubt you'd say at the beginning of checking out my channel like by the way there's a friend of a friend who knows about conspiracy shit that watches molar it's like okay well no but i mean because i if he did it would be through critical drinker maybe but i guess i guess you're saying hypothetically if he brought if he brought you up i mean like that would give me somebody to think about i'm not sure i would come away with the same like uh i'm not gonna say conclusion because i didn't really make a conclusion but same preconceived notions but i i guess i'm trying to could you see someone reviewing your channel and just starting up the review with like i know someone who's essentially kind of crazy who watches yms and that's always stuck with me well i mean if my content was frequently criticized for being like really culture worry kind of sort of thing like whether or not we're gonna say like critical drinkers content is that like it it aligns with like a larger public perception right so that's why it's relevant for me to bring up if um is this the thing if the content in critical drinkers videos was just one to one with everything that friend believed and then you showed that there'll be you'd nail it um obviously the problem is that there are things people say about all of us here and if you open your video with that or an anecdotal experience that matches that yeah we shouldn't treat it like that was my like opening statement of like a thesis though like we should like i'm just i was just again i was just saying what i knew of critical drinker in my own personal anecdotal experiences i've had saying that i clicked on a couple videos that some people in the subreddit were mad about him and i just i it would be yeah i felt like that was worthy of mentioning especially with the frequent caveats and clarifications that i make throughout this entire stream trying to you know very delicately insist that i that i am not trying to misattribute any sort of like anecdotal experiences as fact and i'm trying you know i i bring up like things that i preconceived ideas that i have about his audience and i you know constantly clarifying throughout the video that i that i uh am not necessarily attributing the beliefs of his audience even to him so i yeah i think you know i don't i don't know what else i could have done i probably um like if it were me i would the overall fairness that i'm trying to present to the conversation and open mindedness i think that i did a you know build on to it and way better than most people probably the the way to go right because the the bigger problem as well is that your um your audience as you've already mentioned is quite ready to believe a lot about drinker and what he's up to in fact they would have told you a lot of stuff that some some people in my audience mostly from the sardonic subreddit okay that's the combination of my audience and two other people's audience to give you an example if um if for the first time ever we were to cover vorsch reviewing a film our audience would be incredibly inclined against him just from different things i've had in the past same for a lot of creators if we were to cover let's say uh you know a friend of drinkers everyone being inclined toward them more than likely just natural biases so you know yeah i'm saying your audience i assume you agree is inclined against a drinker a critical drinker uh not not what you not i mean the maybe half like if you look look at the top comments on the the video right now the number one is like um on the the highlight video the number one is like this here's an unbiased uh summary for people uh that didn't have the time and it's it's like a very fair like oh adam agrees with drinker on this and critical it's not like you know like that's that's that's like the most representative sample of my audience is that i you know me and as you can see through that stream and as you can see through this conversation um the type of thoughts that i put out into the world are ones where i'm uh constantly encouraging uh trying to understand other people trying to be fair and trying to uh you know even if i have biases saying those biases recognizing those biases and seeing if being open to having those biases contradicted or being open to uh new information even if i have a preconceived idea about somebody else and i feel like that is more representative of my audience singularly um and let's think about this for a second too even with a lot of people that you know as soon as you make a video criticizing someone else on the internet it's going to be flooded with people that are just like you know already don't like the person and they're just looking for more justification so the point i'm not just so they can add to the the whole thing right i'm not trying to prove to you even with that like the comment section is very fair and reasonable for the most part um i'm not trying to prove to you that your audience is even unreasonably going in any particular direction all i'm highlighting is that it's not the greatest idea to put something like that before covering anything to do with drinker with an audience that's already arguably inclined against him i don't believe that that i well i would say over half of my audience is probably not like even neutral i would say it's not a good idea for but okay i mean i would want to do the same will agree to disagree i'd want to do the same for you and for anyone else if i was like we're gonna cover some rags videos today and then i'd like just reference how someone crazy likes rags just seems unnecessary yeah that'd be weird yeah but i mean like it's reflective of my like it's it's me being honest about my bias right it's me it's me giving more information in context about my frame of mind going into it so that if i say something potentially unfair or if i have um you know a direction that not my mind is going that it could be influenced by something like an anecdotal experience that i had with someone and i want that information to be out there so that if let's say something happens in my brain where i'm being uh led by that belief in a certain way or led but like if i wouldn't want to start the video being like i have no thoughts about critical drinker i haven't heard anything about them like i wouldn't i wouldn't want to like pretend like i'm a completely neutral subject i think that it makes more sense and it's more fair to share my biases before starting a video so is it not possible to simply say um i've heard a lot of negative things about the channel and what it gets up to what it argues and so today we're gonna check out something he says see what happens well i mean based on your issues with what i'm saying i don't know how it's any better to just be vague about it like because when you that i said something negative before i started the stream i don't know how it's better to be vague if you talk about someone who believes in like crazy shit and then says that they're a fan of drinker the the connection is the drinker supports the crazy shit no because i i made very clear to make clarifications in my stream that that's not what i was saying so so you brought it up just as a random connect it has nothing that that isn't the connection you're trying to i didn't say random i explained i explained two sentences ago why i brought it up it's for context so that people have more information before going into it but sorry so you don't you wanted to bring up that he is a person who believes in like crazy stuff and that he watches the drinker but that those two facts are not connected hmm you want to know that that was that's my anecdotal experience is that is that there's people that exist in his audience at least one right um that our conspiracy brain and have somehow found his channel despite their entire media diet being like rumble and bit shoot which you know more people from rumble are coming to his channel because russell brand just had like this interview that of russell brand the full thing was on rumble so there's going to be even more of those types of people russell brand is not a film channel right like russell brand is is a person that that the entire reason why he's successful right now is because he was doing like a lot of like covet conspiracy shit and you know stuff that wasn't allowed on youtube um and he kind of russell brand very in my opinion very consciously plays into uh his own audience capture and knows what people want to hear and is essentially just grifting making money off of doing that right uh and i'm not saying that that's what critical drinker is doing and i make very clear in my stream that that's not what i'm saying so my my bringing up the conspiracy person that i had a face-to-face conversation with in my life um my bringing up was just me being like hey my impression of critical drinker and his content and his audience even though i haven't seen everything is that there are some people a somewhat sizable portion compared to other people's audiences that are not necessarily listening to him for his perspective on film but are uh using his channel as a way to justify their preconceived ideas about how there's some sort of conspiracy trying to control society that they're trying to feminize men that they're trying to prevent you know make you eat the bugs even though that's that one's a little bit further removed but yeah i mean yeah i don't if if you don't understand uh the you know why i would say something like that like i hope you i hope you don't think that it was uh you know malicious because i i didn't think it was but if you do i guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree i think you said it entirely non-maliciously just casually i just think the strategically speaking it um it's not fair to drink it that's what i think okay so every single thing that he consumes online is just like purely conspiracy content the only film channel he could name was the critical drinker and he's like oh yeah i like you know i like the critical drinker and that was it and all he knew about movies was just that movies are woke now and that i guess the powers that be like some sort of like overarching force that's trying to like like they're trying to like make your kids trans or something and sure that's one person i get it like it it maybe it's not representative of every critical drinker fan i get it um but but there's something there's something about his content that just like so actually now i'm kind of confused because the statement is i know a friend he doesn't know any movie reviewers other than drinker and he believes these things like what is the conclusion from from that line of thought you know i i explained it sentences ago i'm sorry i can't keep repeating myself that this that's not a diss i'm trying not to sound disrespectful but uh you can play back the stream later i'm sorry oh yeah it's well it's it's i don't know it's just that um if you didn't have that like just based on that sentence on its own if you hear it it's like kind of leads you to a very place i i understand why you feel that way but i disagree and i've repeated myself more than once i'm sorry we have to move on this is we're five minutes through a two hour and a half video like this is this is the type of shit where you would you would expose people who don't really care about movies to only care about movies through like a purely political lens right like a lot of his videos are just are just like okay movies are bad now because because there's woke things and woke people are doing it right like that that you know like i wish i wish that i could i wish that i could expose someone like this to more films i wish that i could expose someone like this to like having a healthier media diet because it seems like the type of you consider his media diet unhealthy um i mean it could be healthier if most of what he's watching is unhealthy in this format meaning varied uh cool you know but yeah i mean like i said at the beginning of the stream that that was one of my misconceptions that i can easily give you a point on he recommended a lot more things than what i scrolled through because it was categorized under a different title okay so i'm not i'm not i'm not gonna try to argue that like he doesn't check out things that are you know against the grain or uh you know smaller films that aren't explicitly disney films that was a misconception on my part so sure okay person that thinks that all movies are bad now like what is what is the name of your series right like why modern movies suck right like that's a series on the channel why modern movies suck you know it's not necessarily that modern movies suck it's that there's a handful of like popular studio modern movies that suck and if you go back in time you go back in time to like you know whenever you think that the golden age of movies is 90s 80s 60s 50s whatever like you'll realize that there's a lot of things that were a financially successful and b nominated for a bunch of academy awards that were also shit right and we're left with this sort of like i don't know much we want to spend on this but um i am uh in agreement with drinker that we're in an unprecedentedly bad time for mainstream movies being of a quality that's lower than in my experience has ever been in any particular decade keyword being mainstream cool but i i think it's important to to recognize that like most movies from any decade are are just not worth watching like they're all a lot of them are just like really bad uh sure and um of course drinker would only ever be referencing mainstream hollywood he wouldn't be referencing indy or the market as a as an enormous hole yeah um i think i think something to keep in mind here is that like if if let's say we're going through this whole thing we're having this whole conversation and i am saying something like okay well here's here's my misconception and here's why um i think that that is also like kind of a helpful way to learn why there are a lot of people with that same perspective uh on critical drinker because i don't think it just like comes from nowhere right so if i if i'm a person that doesn't want to watch through every single one of his videos um and you know he's a part of public discourse or internet discourse or something right and people are you know always have opinions on things that they haven't like watched every video from um the series title why modern movies suck doesn't really you know it kind unless he's making uh clarifications in those videos saying like oh i don't mean modern movies i mean specifically studio modern movies which i don't think he correct me if i'm wrong but i i don't know if he makes that clarification often or as much as i wouldn't say like he definitely does or doesn't but like all of his references will come from modern big studio movies yeah yeah so i'm saying that with that title it's no surprise that one could be under the impression that he thinks that you know modern movies suck as like an entire generation of movies and not just a generation of studio films right you mean like having not watched the videos though well i mean even with watching the videos does he clarify like so you you've watched the videos well i said i'm not sure if he does i'm saying the title the title says why modern movies suck it doesn't say why modern studio movies suck right so i'm just saying i'm not saying that that's what he's saying i'm just saying i'm giving an explanation for why sure if um if we were to go literal though he would still be accurate right he could have said why any particular era sucks it wouldn't be an inaccurate statement because they've always sucked in some way shape or form yeah but the implication when you say why modern movies suck isn't why modern movies suck and also every other decade sucks it's specifically why modern yeah but what i'm saying is that very clear there's nothing wrong with saying why modern movies suck if he said why all movies today suck like that would be fair but saying why modern movies suck there are modern movies and some of them suck he's talking about those like there's no reason not to infer it that way i wouldn't be surprised if you made a video called why modern movies suck and you go over like studio practices i think we're talking about different things because you were talking about why it should be inferred that he's talking about modern movies and i was talking about why people infer that he's talking specifically about modern movies independently from other generations which are two different things right um like you're saying it should be interpreted as modern movies suck without any context to any other generation i'm saying that the title very you know explicitly implies modern specifically without making any real you know even within the content of the video like the the clip shows that he plays you know there's it's all probably from wrong but i think older films from like the base interpretation for what he's why mon movies suck i think that the base interpretation of that is he's going to be talking about movies from the last 10 years at maximum more than likely you're saying that he's talking about all of the films more than likely that you know that's what you're inferring from that well i would say if we're going to take him literally like why modern movies suck meaning all of them then i'd be like well he has every right to say they suck just like he could with every generation like i feel like it's unnecessary i'm sorry i don't mean to interrupt but we're we started talking about different things and we have to okay we have to keep playing because it would be too much to try and untangle what we're both talking about here a financially successful and b nominated for a bunch of academy awards that were also shit right and we're left with this sort of like bias of what we think the past is because we only remember what is the greatest you know most influential memorable classic things of the time period right so you know i think that's a fair observation in terms of like people don't you know like when you think about the films that you like from the past you're not always necessarily going to be thinking about the ones that were shared but i mean come on look at the marvel cinematic universe right now it's awful but that's the answer is in within what you just said it's within what you just said look at the marvel cinematic universe that's not i i'm looking at the whole broader scope of films you know it was a good fucking year for movies 2014 you know it was a really good fucking year for movies 2019 okay there's like there's like there's there's you know a lot of great shit coming out i just like i don't i think that it's observations that i'm trying to make there is like these films are really bad like they're really really really bad and consistently to a degree that is shocking compared to yeah and it wouldn't matter if he's talking about marvel or not if he's going to be referencing how marvel used to like 2008 to 2016 i know we're far better it's not but like that's that is why marvel movies suck no but that it's not about marvel it's about how that's one of the prisms of many that we can compare modern marvel to past marvel we can compare modern stars to past stars and you can pay all the ip's that way and that they've gotten staggeringly horrific compared to their old versions live action remakes to the disney renaissance animated films it it feels so incredibly disney brained and i'm just trying to i'm trying to encourage online discourse about film that just like i mean yeah there's if you want to go for franchises that have a point of these are really good points of reference because you have films in those franchises that existed 20 30 40 years ago like the whole reused ip thing is like a particularly bad thing right now like that that's like that's one thing that's very specific to this generation right exactly which i imagine i could believe that there's one of these videos in this series that is referencing the reuse of old but i mean that's not an unreasonable point and it's not unreasonable to say like why modern movies suck these franchises get dragged out like the the grave gets dug up and then they parade the corpse around to make more money now like that that could be pointed to as a sort of uniquely modern at least you know we're talking about the film industry right now yep um that's fair and so yeah like uh just just to clarify do you think in terms of decades that we're in a pretty damn bad one overall compared to others or not if we're talking about all film no no we're not it is easier for independent artists to create films than it ever has been before people are shooting films with fucking iPhones right we're talking about like quality yeah quality yeah the quality is fucking fantastic right now like if you if you haven't this is exactly what i talk about in the video like if you're if your film diet is narrow to the point where most of what you're talking about is just like franchise ip is it's the same thing like if you were to say look at the fucking gaming industry right every triple a studio right now is fucking dog shit micro transactions like greedy business practices just so unethical predatory bullshit right and what's different about the gaming culture versus the film culture is that one random guy make an undertale or Minecraft or fucking you know like any sort of like indie game or whatever you can publish it yourself on the internet you can market it yourself on the internet because gamers are all like internet people you can post post it on fucking reddit you have a successful game everybody knows about undertale everybody knows about Minecraft the independent gaming scene is what i would like to see the film scene as but right now everybody's talking it's everybody's talking about the equivalent of triple a gaming for movies and my frustration is like damn there are all these fucking amazing indie movies that exist in the same way that there's all these amazing indie games that exist but people don't talk about them in the same way that they talk about indie games right it's it's less accessible to people because there's a higher barrier of entry for getting your film funded for getting your film seen for getting it seen legitimately like jule havers releasing his own films on youtube and those do decent for like a youtuber but they don't have the same legitimacy as like getting a studio back like professionally distributed film in a theater there's still a social stigma against just oh releasing your movie on youtube and it needs to you know there's a financial incentive you need to make your money back and it's more difficult to do that in in terms of the film you're not talking about quality you're talking about production options yeah i'm saying the quality is fucking amazing and no you're saying that loads of people have access to create and now we're getting plenty of options in terms of good thing of course more good things will be made if more things are being made but now there is going to be an enormous sludge of terrible things as well i know you'd agree with that and what what a bad game what you're saying that made but there are also a lot of the good indie games as well right like look at steam and all of those like the torrent of terrible video games uh everywhere yeah okay well well then i i guess if i were to try and you know quantify the entire scope of every movie in every game like my my version of saying oh yeah the year's fucking great they're still mainly this decade's great they're still making great shit my my premise of saying that is based off of the media that i consume no one can play every game no one can watch every movie no one has like an objective true firm grasp over like what the overall slice of the pie of like bad to good is so yeah i think i think that by saying that like most movies are bad now in a way that is worse than other other generations is not not only not provable but like not accurate or helpful because it's more reflective of the types of things you consume and less reflective of the overall landscape of what there is to consume you are correct we can't any individual can't make a statement on the quality of all film as an average the best we can do is go from every time we watch a movie what is the likelihood we're going to come away saying man that was really awesome and good and people feel or at least depends how you're watching your movies depends what movies you're seeing all right well whatever it depends if you know what you're watching if you go to a fucking film festival and you just watch random movies where you're like ah you know sounds kind of interesting the description or like oh this is based off of a true story you're gonna have a bad time because half of them are gonna be shit maybe more than half of them are gonna be shit but if you go to a film festival and you're like okay i know this director i like this award that it won at this thing that's been pretty consistent and you actually know how to find things you're gonna have a great fucking time i'm gonna see all the best movies in the year in like a month at tiff like i'm gonna i'm so fucking high for that shit so the vast majority of people right you know who you go to movie theaters and who are exactly exactly exactly i'm trying to help people i'm trying to help people get the tools to help them have an experience with movies where they're not coming out of it saying like ah every movie sucks nowadays i you know like why would they say that why would they say that every movie sucks now why do you think that is because they're watching movies that are in theaters at the big chain theaters without knowing what movies to watch without knowing okay to find small we're almost there now and so why we're getting there yeah is that a change why is it that they're saying because i'm not because big big studio movies are generally bad no we've gotten to a point where they are now generally bad they used to be relatively normal for entertainment for most audiences but we're in an unprecedented time of unsatisfaction with hollywood but yeah if if we're talking about studio movies which is what i was saying so right like that would be a fair paradigm and that is representative of a change i it's well yeah but we're saying we're man because i thought that we had this understood i'm talking about movies as a whole right i'm talking about like no we both agreed no one is talking about movies as a whole because it's not possible no exactly neither of us are are able to quantify every single movie that exists in a year but based on what your media diet is if you are accurately um being able to select the types of films that you think that you'll be interested in in a way that aligns with your taste you know like there's movies out there for everybody right there's movies being made all the time that just don't have the same marketing budget that aren't in as many theaters there's some that you'll never be able to see until they're on digital because they're just like it's difficult especially with disney controlling so many of the theaters right so that's why i'm trying to get people away from disney movies from studio movies and to have not just like oh you know talk about them and say that they're bad but not feel obligated to watch them as a part of a cultural conversation but you wouldn't need to do that if the movies they were watching with something like the animated lion king you wouldn't be like guys get away from that that's the mainstream studio shit exactly but that but this is the unfortunate situation that we're in and this is just this is just the end result of greedy corporations and then hiring people based off nepotism and not people that are actually passionate about the ip is that they're like the same shit that's happening about like indiana jones and all that shit happened with halo right like 343 is making all this shit they don't understand what made the first games good but in the gaming sphere people can go on steam and see a cool indie game and it's right there and it's easy and they can just get it right away right like they don't have to do any effort in terms of finding it we don't have like a steam for movies even on like fucking itunes like you can't you can't you you don't get exposed to this sort of thing and so that's why my argument and my presence on the internet and my presence as a person talking about movies that's part of my goal is to help people be able to use these tools and be able to help understand how to find the better movie i understand and i respect that a lot you've recommended plenty of films that i never would have seen otherwise and i appreciate it what i'm trying to get at simply is the that same media diet the one that you'd be critical of and i think everyone could agree is not fantastic if you only watch hyper let's say you only watch films that come above a 100 million dollar budget that's awful right it's like oh that's not good but rewind just 20 years 30 years 10 years whichever one you if that same representative diet were being run they would have more positive entertainment experiences that's what's being appealed to yeah i don't i don't disagree that studio movies have gotten worse in the same way that i don't disagree that triple a gaming is like completely fucked okay right i don't i don't disagree with that i'm just you know when the again the title is you know why modern movies suck not why you know studio movies suck and you know i'm glad that he is that he is recommending things like uh like boiling point i've yet to see it but you know i'm excited to watch it i feel like i think you'll love that movie because because i know enough about it that you know i have i have my own tools that i can use to determine what you know whether or not i think a movie will be like pretty pretty good i just i i think that it's important not just to criticize disney and criticize it's big studio movies but i think it's important to move away from feeling obligated that we even need to be talking about them the problem with star wars is that it's so big that people feel obligated to watch it to be a part of a cultural conversation whether or not they think they're even going to enjoy it i want to end that shit i want people to be as excited for the new fucking jim cummings movie you know like i want people to be looking at artists create i want people to know about matt johnson i want people to be fucking hyped for the new nirvana the band movie right and stop thinking that like oh yeah because it says marvel on it or star wars on it that we all have to talk about it we all have to see it like why the fuck did anybody watch she-holt like people nobody should have even watched that we want to like criticize it you know it's just like like it's just well it's it's it i wish that people didn't feel obligated you know i know but that's that's very much wishful thinking in the these a lot of people and they're going to be in both of our chats right now they have fallen in love with these ip's and it makes them feel you know inspired or it makes them feel any particular way that's how they got you that's how they got you you gotta but you say that yeah you say that as though like a new vision or a new iteration wouldn't be equally as fulfilling that that does happen every once in a while we do get a new vision of a particular ip that is incredible and that's what everybody wants but we don't get it and so what's what's drinker doing what's many people doing we're trying to be critical of it to push it back to get it in a different direction when things like i think that that's a lost cause in the same way that like trying to get haloed is like the industry is just so fucked like it's i think it's much more important and much more like strategic to just support independent artists that are making the good things i don't see why we can't do it like you you don't yeah disney's already said because i was acting on a project on the budget so you want more sequels i'm moving in the right direction um i thought we're all supposed to not like i thought we're all like sick of the whole sequel lightest like when somebody announces something it's like do we really need like a yeah exactly if they're bad but like i don't know yeah for me the things that i love like i'm happy with the existing properties i don't need a fucking you know lion king four i absolutely know i'm with you because i love the original if you wanted to focus in on like even if we wanted to keep talking about disney disney used to like make like original films before they start making sequels all the time to give it the very least yeah patience with older you know like fantasy stories and things like that so you could always say well i mean by talking about this i'm trying to nudge disney in the direction of not franchising every single thing that they have and to go back yeah but you know light year fails talking there's nothing i mean it has nothing but talking can lead talking can lead to behaviors exactly obviously because that's the whole point of your channel no no perhaps that's what you've been saying that you're trying to do right i mean you would well i mean i'm talking about like no i mean 100 talking does lead to behaviors i'm just saying like the scope of like what makes a disney movie maker break is okay but so to give you an example heavily influenced when i'm like cut commentary when tlj happened and rise the skywalker you'll find plenty of sentiment throughout all of our sphere of youtube about star wars needs to stop go away just stop it's done leave it alone it's dead just stop they bring out and all we talk about how this is a bad idea it's it's gonna be shit there's no point we watch it it's really good we fully recommend it to people and people are very happy with it it's very much an inspirational show and it's easy to get into for a lot of people because it's star wars i don't like i'm not like sad that happened because we can't like accelerate on the whole hating of ip's i'm actually really happy that they managed to find someone to give this project to and they give them enough freedom to make something good and we want to encourage more of that to happen in future and how else do you do it but saying look at that it's good go look at that that's you know i mean i i know what you mean but i what we are doing essentially through uh internet commentary is essentially just a hyper extension of what exists as word of mouth right and so word of you know that's existed throughout time oh yeah that's a good thing that's a good thing yeah i think we've kind of lost the plot of what we're even arguing about no we're totally on point because i was about to bring it back to drink it like he's doing all these kinds of discussions he's talking to well-known actors or even directors he's talking about the different films that are good or bad from obviously his own paradigm but at the same time clearly appeals to a lot of people's points of view in the hopes that something can be done even if it is in a small way right like i don't i'm not particularly moved by the if like a wizard told me you're gonna make zero difference except maybe one guy in your audience might be inspired to make a good movie someday i'd be like that's good enough that's all i need yeah and i assume yeah you'd have to be the same right like you've inspired loads of people exactly and i feel like we're all doing what we can't look at the the issue i take with is people who either like lie about media to you know push their own preferences necessarily or that um they're just giving analysis that's absolutely fucking worthless like absolutely shallow now if you had that opinion of drinker i'm not saying you do at all um i wouldn't even like take issue with it until i see what examples you have because i don't know what you would have seen that sort of thing i would entertain the idea in the same way that i hope you'd entertain the idea if i had that opinion about any given review or online but i feel like we do good work both you and myself and drinker and rags are referring of course 70s music you don't think of every single song that existed in the 70s that you heard on the radio you think of you know the songs that still hold true this to this day like you know i want to know have you ever seen the rain like what is that ccr clear hanging yeah that's great there's a copyright warning i think that it's it's kind of a weird bias that human beings have in terms of how we think about media where um yeah credence clear water revive that's such a long mouth full of a name it's such an interesting weird bias that we have about me your movie sucks dot or all music sucks now or all yms isn't it yeah wow got him oh and uh sorry i did mean to ask you was all i'm trying to change my channel name to just yms but i gotta figure out if i'll lose my uh my check mark if i do that i'm trying to figure out on youtube because i got the at yeah so um i already have the at yms uh so that's your like that's what shows up when you comment on a thing it's at yms yeah and but then you go to the channel and then it's a different name yeah like i created the channel back when it was like i created the channel when it was uh normal to have a website uh i was gonna ask out of curiosity because you did seem adamant that like we should be moving away from the uh the mainstream stuff like you do cover a lot of it though right uh okay let's look at my channel for a second here all right so i did barbenheimer obviously that's like a big event sort of thing that i'm interested in uh asteroid city and past lives was my one before that i would you know west anderson's pretty big past lives was an indie film from sundance uh the way that i cover videos at this point like it has to be there has to be a certain threshold that's held in terms of i don't i'm not just gonna watch and or cover a movie just because it's popular and just because i know i'll get clicks and just because even if there's a billion people asking me to it has to be something that i either a think i'm going to enjoy b think i'm going to enjoy ironically or c know that i have some sort of passionate conversation about you know hopefully accurately before i see the movie you know i i inferred enough from the little mermaid trailers uh and i also wanted an excuse to rewatch the original and i wanted to do like a comparison so i don't know to me um yeah there's uh it depends it depends on what month it is because you know i'm in the middle of making my fantasia festival review that's 12 random film festival movies that are going to be dropped in the next like week uh a month from now it's going to be like 30 movies from tiff which are all festival movies so out of out of all the major film review channels i'd say that i probably do the best job in terms of like covering smaller films like that's the reason why fantasia invited me back to their festival uh they gave me a fucking hotel room that was pretty cool um is because i'm helping to like really promote these things and i i think that with my goal being sharing smaller things that hopefully everybody enjoys or enough people enjoy or can connect with that they wouldn't have found without me part of that goal is having channel growth which unfortunately uh you know people click on things they're familiar with yeah i i but by every one of these points you've made i completely agree the obviously the only thing is that it would still further interest and attention to the mainstream movies right like uh it it would it would damage your overall goal of trying to ignore and move past them if you're going to continue to cover them uh yeah but i don't i don't cover that's that that makes up such a smaller percentage of like the the content on my channel right there's movies that i literally i'm like people are asking me to fucking cover elvis i'm like i'll only do it if it gets nominated for an oscar right and i did because it was part of my oscar's video i like covering the oscar's i like clowning on the oscar's it's a good series um but yeah like i'm not i didn't you know there's a gigantic handful of like disney remakes that you know probably could have made content out of but they just didn't seem that interesting i didn't see mulan you know i had no interest in you know seeing it or trying to cover it um most star wars movies like i only saw seven through nine because i i felt obligated out of like this whole cultural conversation thing which is exactly what i'm trying to move away from and so i'm like okay well now now i'm not just watching star wars things because people are wanting me to talk about star wars things like i i think i'm i'm pretty firm in my belief that it's not my type of media to be consuming right so yeah i i would say i would say there's like a healthy a healthy mix on my channel like it's it's completely unavoidable to uh you know it's not possible for a channel to not talk about a popular movie because like even if you talk about an indy movie at a festival there's a chance that it will become popular like the whale you know like other films that blow up um so yeah i i don't i don't think that my uh the overall landscape of my channel is contradictory to what i'm i'm saying or what my goals are or what i was going to describe as contradictory is more so that um it's gonna have a byproduct that's unfortunate considering your goals i'd assume um well i did i waited like a long time before i even made my lanking review like i my my stance on the lanking 2019 was don't watch it don't even watch it ironically stop asking me to see it don't give them money because like i fucking care about you know the lanking is like one of my favorite movies ever um and i love the original so much and i didn't want to incentivize disney to make more and my my suggestion for people not to do that didn't make fucking difference it made a billion dollars right away became the most uh the highest grossing animated film of all time only to be beaten by the mario movie uh this year um and do you think there's a reason why disney films aren't making as much money anymore compared to four five years ago where like they were you know dominating six seven eight out of the top ten highest grossing films of all time what do you think changed uh fatigue people are seeing more the same shit it's not art anymore you're not showing people a new experience i think that there's enough people that like if you polled people coming out of the fucking theater like what which is what cinema score does which you know i don't think that there are like a great website in terms of how to find good movies but let's see what the cinema score line king 2019 was because the general uh do they even have it okay i'm just gonna have to search for it better the general consensus that my understanding of the general consensus of the lion king 2019 is that people fucking liked it right like it wasn't like people liked the movie but now when it's like okay you're doing the same shit over and over again you know first film critics are going to notice first people who watch like a huge variety of films and have seen so many that it's already like okay you're kind of doing the same thing again already you know if they've seen it once or twice then you know there's a certain portion of the population that's going to be like okay come off it i already know what's happening but then the more times it's done then the more of a percentage of the population is going to be on board with like hey haven't i seen this before or hey you're just doing the same shit or like hey you know the the first one that i tried watching i didn't really love that much but i tried gave it a shot now i won't give this one a shot so you know if you just any genre this has happened to like a lot of things franchises genres studios like if you're just producing the same shit over and over and over again like the natural trend is down of course it's going to be starting successfully otherwise they wouldn't be trying to replicate replicate that formula if it wasn't massively successful and then of course it's going to go down because they don't really they're not doing anything new right you can't do you think trying to replicate lightning in a bottle like i would actually can see the stuff like the flash or shazam can suffer when a bunch of other marvel shit comes out that's not entertaining because they're too similar superior stuff but you really think that like people being like oh my god lying king i'm getting the same thing with little mermaid i think i think people are more aware of uh the disney remake itis well so i was i was actually gonna agree with you i'm my sister i spoke to her about it because she's not watching them anymore she used to watch them all and i was like why and then she was like they're all fucking terrible and they're kind of gross like she finds them in the cultural conversation changes well i guess what we're trying to push is that um it's the it's too bad for too long as opposed to fatigue not necessarily the fatigue isn't a part of it but the it's the if they were really well executed this probably wouldn't be anywhere near as bad well actually i mean i guess a question i would have is do we think that the discourse surrounding these films online in parts by like youtube channels is a factor even if it's not 100% factor uh well yeah it's a part of the it's a part of the cultural conversation i guess here's the next thing would be here's that here's that's if you know somebody somebody who mainly just watches mainstream films and feels like they're not getting what they want it's simply because of that they would start looking elsewhere for films that might interest them including indy the indie sphere you know like smaller films i i would like that to be the case i don't think the average person is doing it um but that's that's why that's where i try it some people might and that's where i try to help so when i was saying earlier that like it's a losing battle trying to get studios to correct themselves into making good movies like even if we get a movie every once in a while where it's like oh damn they actually put faith in real artists and they did this thing that's not their takeaway right there what barbie's success isn't gonna be like oh we need to hire more young filmmakers like gretta gerwig and noah bomb back they're gonna be like oh people really like barbie toys right because they don't understand art that's why i'm saying it's a losing battle is because like we're gonna make hot wheels movies it's like oh okay yeah like that's why it's a losing battle not because like you know they they not because the public can't uh eventually shift and be on your side about a cultural conversation not because they can't eventually lose money and try to understand why but because the lessons are always going to be the wrong takeaway they don't understand the people in charge of funding art in giant studio environments they don't understand how to make art they're all fucking nepo babies they all have like way too much fucking control over the artists and they're like yeah i think i would like to see this thing and they always wind up ruining shit that's exactly what happened to triple a gaming right i completely agree that that would be a losing battle and that's why i think we should be supporting independent artists instead because but what you just said is part of the argument i would have made for why modern movies suck more than others what you just said like hits on one of the biggest factors which is a lot of people yeah yeah that they've been inherited by a group of people that are either like they've been hired because of family connections or whatever else because like we've had commented on it here but like having control of a 200 to 300 dollar 300 million dollar movie like mom or quantum mania and it's given to writers that have zero history is absolutely insane but it's being done yeah or just like they don't care about the franchise they don't care about they don't know the fuck they're doing like it doesn't matter yeah they the the formulas at disney like there's a there's a reason why we keep seeing the whole like ugly ass realistic character design is because that's what their takeaway was from the lion king 2019 like that's what they're they were like oh this made a billion dollars what do we let's make everything else kind of look like this too it's like okay well it made a billion dollars because you played the trailer music from the first film and people had a nostalgic reason to check it out and people weren't fatigued by all the other previous remakes so far it wasn't exactly a part of the culture cultural conversation in the same way people were fucking hype for the lion king 2019 and i was trying to remember but couldn't do it you think the quality of films plays into how much they get fatigued and how quickly i mean i would i would argue that they were never good just successful and i think eventually people people start to see through the seams and i think that even retrospectively there's people that will look at the lion king 2019 that loved it when it came out and be like okay wait this is actually shit same thing happened with Suicide Squad you know like people fucking love that movie when it came out same thing happened with Amazing Spider-Man too a lot of people are just excited to yeah yeah those who those were part of why my channel got huge is because it was considered to be a very controversial opinion uh people were arguing about that because i was i was watching you so my sphere just ordered yeah i figured everyone hated that one as well but okay yeah no there were there was the the reason why uh my Suicide Squad video on reddit is because it was a response to the people that were like fucking the crazy Snyder fans whatever we want to call them or DC fanboys i'm sure you're well aware like there was enough people in that crowd like angry joe and people just like hyping up this fucking thing like the biggest piece of shit ever made and people people were desperate to have someone just say like it's shit right um when a lot of reviewers were kind of tiptoeing around it because they didn't want to upset their audience and they were like yeah you know it's it's i enjoyed it for i liked seeing the Joker they were just waiting for somebody to be fucking honest about it and that's why that's part of why my channel's big so just because i because that um for clarity sake so you don't think that quality has much of a role to play in terms of how quickly people get fatigued about these franchises and things like in an alternate universe for the MCU i mean banger after banger do you think that people would still be fatigued yeah eventually i think that like even if you're doing uh franchise or a formula that not that doesn't even necessarily betray what the audience wants i think that eventually over time the audience wants a different thing like saw wound up giving up after seven even though it was still profitable even though like they were still making money but they were just like eh it's not as much and people were the people they saw the shift in the industry of like okay now paranormal activity is the new thing coming out right like people got fatigued of like westerns people got fatigued of like you know james bond is still going right but it seems like there's a big peek whenever it's the new actor and then people are like oh i kind of like this and it has the exact same slow drop off you know not necessarily meaning like all of them are bad although i guess with james bought a lot of them are bad but yeah in an alternate universe where like every single disney remake was good then they would probably be doing more successfully but i would argue that in order for them to be good they would have to inherently not be doing the same thing over and over anyway so the the fatigue wouldn't even be a factor because they would have to be changing things up and doing new things in order for them to be good which almost inextricably ties fatigue with quality yeah like yeah part of the reason why they are bad is because they're doing the same shit yeah because uh we've talked about the same shit they were doing was like slightly good at first like if they're just doing the same shit over and over then it becomes bad the big thing that we thought that the mcu could have done in phase four is to experiment like crazy and have like the kinds of films that you would never expect to be in the mcu because they can take those kinds of risks and even if they fail if they had like 10 million budgets given to very or two directors that are given like a parameter on how far they can go in terms of any kind of world building no necessary cameos just that maybe a person that lives in the world after what's happened that sort of stuff i feel like the mcu could have evolved because plenty of those would have kicked off depending on how good they are who you give them to sort of thing um yeah which would satisfy both right it's not like the others but would also be of good quality which means the fatigue would not have set in as early if at all um at least however long sure but but the solution to that is is not like oh people stop watching the movies and then they start making other things the solution to that is like to fire 75 percent of people in hollywood you know i'm trying to think is like it's not like it's i don't think that's gonna happen like it's i think it's as fucked as the triple a gaming industry yeah no i i don't even disagree with that and that's why we've got to get as much as we can where we can getting people in supporting different people i completely agree with all of that and um i guess the thing that may come up is that uh you're not sure that drinker does enough in that regard right i said earlier that that's something i can see done okay suck now because like even even if he doesn't promote the exact same films that i do i think that um you know if he if the main focus of his channel is you know like we're let's call him disney or studio franchise whatever shit you know for him to be recommending anything outside of that realm is a good step in the right direction and i'm glad that he's exposing people to that so yeah well obviously he is and he's talking to different people who are from the industry that he wants to praise and direct people toward but there's also like i don't know how aware you are of his thought film is currently being created uh i'm aware of him doing some i think he he has like a book on amazon too but i haven't yeah i have not consumed i don't have any indication as to what the um level of quality might be for any of those things or what even of course um it's just that it's it's very good in and of itself that he's looking to create something with people and promote it and uh try and build him even himself up as well as others on the indie circuit right mm-hmm that's such a yeah i i'm excited to see it yeah okay it's such an interesting weird bias that we have about media where we think like all music sucks now or all movies suck now and here's why when in reality it's like you just have to know what to watch you just have to like have a healthy media guy again keep no problem i just know it's all good i know what is essentially just advertised to you and spoon fed to you through giant corporations so it's it i haven't watched this but i found myself being interested enough to like do any kind of commentary on this guy uh even though i haven't done it before because of the fact that he showed up on russell brand which sort of kind of reinforces my initial thought about him is that he's showing up on what is really a political you know anti-vax conspiracy grifting platform and he's showing up as this guy like so this so this is the title so this is why movies are shit now with the critical drinker it's like okay well you know this is kind this is kind of what i experienced anecdotally when i you know met somebody who was essentially just eating up a bunch of conspiracy anti-vax content like weird like new world order george soros you know maybe not explicitly saying it but pretty much saying it content uh this is not a movie review channel and he's being featured on it and so that i just thought that this was interesting enough to at least see what the fuck it is so let's see what this is so wait uh is he back yeah i would yeah wait uh we can yeah wait just a second for him uh because i've got a question to ask uh i do yeah i just have a i do you got a little you little oh like there he is he's back he's back on rags i'll ask you a question out of uh where we're um you you talked about russell brand here how uh drinker showed up on you know russell brand how russell brand is conspiracy theorist and anti-vax and stuff like that um there's a weird but if russell brand reached out to you and said hey i want to talk to you about movies would you uh would you go on and talk to him about movies i'm not sure probably probably all right so but he has uh his interviews are very uh very non-confrontational and leading he kind of like you know well we'll see as it we'll see as it goes along um i'm actually shocked that he that he asked some genuine questions at certain points but oh all right there's like a part of him that comes through at points because i was gonna say that if russell brand invited me i would totally go on but if he was to be like did you know the the earth is flat i'd be like what the fuck are you talking about mate i'd say yeah my criticism i i i want to make clear it's not a criticism of the critical drinker to have accepted going on to russell brand's show i i was mentioning that it's a reflection of the audience crossover that he would be invited there in the first place right it's a it's a observation of the the uh sort of audience the same thing i was talking about earlier was obviously the only problem would be because i'm not familiar does russell ever have people on that he doesn't necessarily align with uh i mean i would have to watch every single russell brand video but like i just i don't even mean in that sense i just mean like doesn't he have people that theoretically speaking he would uh have a bit of a confrontation with maybe like he talks some about their ideas he just that's not my understanding my understanding is he's mostly just creating like a space for he knows what his audience wants to hear and he kind of just he kind of just facilitates that with you know the types of conversations that he has in case you didn't know uh drinker himself he's been he's been interviewed now like on countless channels i think he accepts a lot of invitations from anything from like zero subs to people like russell brand i think that if um not saying this for any particular reason but if let's say a a o c was to ask him for an interview i think he'd accept russell brand or sorry critical drinker yeah critical drinker okay yeah obviously again it's not it's not a reflection on critical drinker to to appear on the program it's to even for russell brand to consider that to be something he wants on the program i'm saying that there's there's an audience alignment okay not you know not one to one or anything but enough crossover that it makes it made enough sense for him to bring him on like i don't think okay yeah i'd watch the fuck out of that yeah well fucking website or whatever he might as well be on the daily wire i guess hey you awakening wonders thanks for joining me on stay free with big fucking very excited about today's show the first he used to be i 100 that's what it is okay it's it's it's it's a fucking crypto fucking covid ball all right he's doing he's doing he's that's that's the whole reason why his thing fucking blew up it's because he was like i said i know nothing about his stuff i know more about him as an actor than i do is anything else we've been right before but does he do that he hasn't been acting for a while okay he's a fucking he's he's like he's somewhere between joe rogan and gueneth paltrow he's somewhere okay okay on youtube and that's going to be relevant to you six point five million awakening wonders over there awakening awaken it's funny that he uses the term awakening because like if a leftist or left leaning person or even like someone even someone like joe biden said awakening they would be like it means woke because you surely love the critical drinker the man who has analyzed and critiques contemporary cinema with a perspective that you're unlikely to see in the mainstream i think we are definitely stuck in a rut as a culture when it comes to just see this this is something that i take a bit of an issue with is like prioritizing the idea of like ah my culture right like i don't know if i give too much of a shit about like i i'm an individual you know i'm an individual like i like movies that i like and i like movies from a variety of cultures like if america decides to go in certain trends about movies like i'm going to call it out right i'm going to call out america mostly for not being exposed to different cultures but like i don't know i feel like there's a lot of fear mongering when it comes to like oh movies are getting like too feminist or movies are like getting to what like i don't know it seems like weird fear mongering maybe i'm reading a bit too far into it he's barely said anything that's what i was going to say is he's like i don't even sure what he said yeah i i i figure i'd address most of the criticisms we would have like within the stream itself but i will i will add more commentary in a bit also i want to point out also i want to point out after thoroughly seeing a lot of like back and forth about people that hate the critical drinker on like my subreddit or the sardonic has subreddit and other subreddits you know like obviously he's met with a lot of criticism i do want to point out that i've seen a bunch of criticism against him that i thought was like a little unfair we're like oh he didn't like you he didn't think i mean that that goes for yms on other places that goes for us on other places it's it's insane and it sucks but there's not much any of us can really do about it but i'm glad you pointed it out that's cool i am glad yeah a lot of people wouldn't go like the right name of a movie at a time where he like you know didn't have the right word when he said like he was on a live stream or whatever like sometimes people are a little too like overly critical or jumping the gun when it's like ah this guy's like right leaning it's like okay you know whatever like i don't hate anybody just because they're conservative right like but i'm at least going to have a conversation about what i find disagreeable about them relying on the past as you say the motivation behind these i find that funny because he's sorry we barely started we are definitely stuck in a rough it sucks because i'm reacting to something that i don't know is just like a little fucking preview at the beginning it's like a little compilations practice later when the real thing comes in so interesting because the content that i've consumed from him and again i have not watched all these content what i've seen is like literally what he's describing right like oh we're stuck in a rut where we're all the content is relying on the past when all i hear him talk about is like why can't we have movies like they were in the 80s so uh is there anything you want to add because of course like the this feels like a misunderstanding of what he's saying yeah no i i i can i can see where the miscommunication is but i think it i think it goes back to the earlier point of like media diet right where it's like if if it is studio movies then yeah you would inherently want to go back to a period where studio movies were better where the average movie in a theater you could watch you know would be something that you know not inherently right that would be enjoyable but quality of yeah there's just because of quality there's production elements and technology advancements now the drink would likely cite to you that are really bad that people are relying on be it the overuse of cg or the volume screen or different kinds of like attempts at de-aging people in the like and everything looks fake and plasticky and rubbery versus what he loves which is like a primary area you would probably argue to you like this this appears in all eras but that it was very prominent to him from his perception in like the 80s 90s maybe or 70s wherever he would particularly choose of filmmaking that was really nuts and bolts and whenever you watch it it looks gritty and real and awesome sort of thing that's just that's pretty much all the point he's making because of course as you're pointing out he hates the idea of digging up the corpses of the past and parading them up in today and so the miscommunication is just that yeah he doesn't i think i'm actually he doesn't want indiana jones he wants films made in the same vein that indiana jones was created that that would be the simplest way to put it yeah like every single video i've seen from him is like i wish movies were like they were from the past but now they're different and bad so that's kind of interesting actually as you say the motivation behind these ip's and these franchise these franchise movies is no one's willing to take a risk but they lack with these modern characters see that's not untrue what russell brander said like i want to see more risk taking and franchise agreed big budget movies yeah that's more artistic but they're not willing to take that step as i've heard and be vulnerable and this is not untrue he's saying yeah it's so it's so frustrating because it seems like they're setting themselves up to fail every time that they try that every once in a while they're like okay we're gonna we're gonna do fucking bow is afraid i'm like you can't have expected that to make money no that was only like 30 million i guess i was like a 24 as high as budget but i wasn't sure that oppenheimer was gonna be able to make it but uh i guess i'm glad it did um i mean christopher nolland to say that well tenet phillipop because of co vid i guess right is what you'd say that that was the only reason that it wasn't successful was co vid yeah i think i think chris phenolan is a selling point but then there is the fact that the film had to overcome being a three hour long r-rated biopic like i think that's a that seemingly yeah that seems like it would be a harder sell than a lot of other things but it really does seem like the barbie oppenheimer like jewel sort of screening thing like that really helped both of those films i also think i've seen people argue that tenet is not anywhere near as good as oppenheimer well i mean i really like oppenheimer and i don't think i want to see tenet wow i don't i don't think i want to you saw adam what did you think of tenet it's uh really annoying that's the way this is yeah those are my favorite movies or the annoying ones i've had a lot of practice lately it's tenet tenet is what you would make if you were trying to parody a christopher nolland film oh wait sorry wait what okay wait i thought he was talking about the actual production not characters these franchise movies is no one's willing to take a risk but they like with these modern characters that they try oh he's talking purely about characters okay this is this is one that i have to think about more i was i was talking about funding i was talking about like oh yeah we want movies with ideas and scripts that take more risks he's talking about like characters that are like flawed i don't know if i necessarily yeah these are snippets of a conversation without a full context that yeah i shouldn't have even been commenting on but i didn't realize we're just the editing willing to take that step of have them fail and be vulnerable and have flaws and weaknesses we're going to talk about sound of freedom why is this movie causing so much controversy i would love to hear the critical drinker talk about sound of freedom see i'm also going to start referring to the he does by his actual human name and i'm going to ask you to remove them aviators not yet not while we're still not while we're getting a face reveal still on youtube we go to the website to get the face reveal out guide stay free with russian brand see it first on rumble it all rumble all rumble where we can be a bit more explicit about our anti-vaccine nonsense is the critical drinker drinker welcome to the show thanks for joining us thanks for having me on man i can't believe it i'm sandwiched right between tucker carlson and run to stand they doxxed his name is he on tucker carlson and run sorry oh he's sandwiched as in was that who russell brand head on before and after oh my god he held them up as like idols that's are we so much in 1.25 speed it's it doesn't feel like it i'll make sure but uh so i assume it was just caught there the uh you said you're surprised he sees ron disantis and tucker carlson as uh idols i don't know if i said surprise but yeah i don't necessarily know that what i'm saying is that he doesn't he's saying that he has to live up to them as entertainment okay because i don't even know that he watches anything from tucker carlson nor do i don't think he knows anything about ron disantis i'd be surprised if he did i don't know but i so here's here's something that i'll point out um and we'll see as the interview goes along but i feel as though and this is not to suggest that you know critical drinkers doing this for like money or whatever i think that it's a very real like kind of psychological phenomenon that we all go through like if we're interacting with a certain type of person and you know that that person wants to hear like a certain type of thing i think that most people kind of gravitate towards um you know like uh i guess like changing their phrasing or or even sort of like merging into things that they want to hear um and i feel i feel like i feel like there's moments in this interview where critical drinker does that maybe not consciously um where you know i i think he understands like being on the wrestle brand program and him having those guests i i think that you know kind of being like oh i have to live up to that that is like kind of like a you know uh maybe not direct but mild praising of those two i think he may have ended up saying the same thing did even if like russell had said i had trump on previously and i'm buying on next week he would be like holy fuck i've got a lot to live up to because that's huge just because they're big names yeah yeah that's the impression i make sense that it's yeah i think so yeah by by comparison drinkers not as well known as talking he's a youtube film reviewer yeah he does not strike me as a ron dysantis fan here's a question since we're clarifying that would there is there an issue if he did idolize tucker carlson and ron dysantis um i wouldn't necessarily be an issue in and of itself it would be an issue if it were misrepresentative of how he uh has stated otherwise like i said if he may i don't actually know but my impression from this is that he's just saying they're big figures and i think you misunderstood that's all okay um as for like that's where you know the the nature of someone's idolization of any particular person could be good or bad or neutral it really just depends on what they say right and was that who russell brand head on before and after oh my god he held them up as like idols that's fucking fascinating this is amazing drinker welcome to the show thanks for joining us thanks for having me on man i can't believe i'm sandwiched right between tucker carlson and ron dysantis i've got a lot to live up to on this one damn like even i feel like even if i were like conservative republican like to hold ron dysantis up is like a like a like a a person to like have to live up to yeah that's like praising ted grue ron dysantis is as lame as ten group ted grue like he's as pathetic and as much of a loser like ron dysantis is only a name now because he's made like he's been popular in florida and people are seeing him as like the only alternative to trump when in reality like he's going to get yeah but not just the governor but making like huge fucking news stories of of his state and being as uh what's the word provocative is possible in in his uh political governance be fucking crushed in the primaries like ron dysantis has zero chance is insane like nobody's gonna even know ron dysantis his name after a while right now it better be slide it into your reviews somehow if you can otherwise you simply will not fit in with the roster thanks for joining us mate no it's a pleasure to be here thanks for helping me on mine one of your most recent what was that was that like an ironic thing i was kind of confused what he was trying to get out there he's in videos that i enjoyed watching was your analysis and review the latest indiana jones movie it seems you kind of reached a in a sense uh zenith of your analysis in itself see russell brand didn't even like believe in any of this shit politically until it got him views like he's such a fucking grifter he's as much of a grifter as like who's god who's that who's the woman who does goop oh yeah like it's literally just like follow the mind are we so are we on 1.25 speed or no i changed it again but i don't know if it's ignoring me can we do 1.5 and see if it's still yeah sure i'll put it to that thank you like russell brand is the male gwyneth peltrow you know maybe joe rogan is a bit but joe rogan i at least believe that he believes what he's saying whereas russell brand i don't believe that he believes what he's saying well what lynch might call the duck's eye the point within the point it seemed to me that what you were saying is that our culture is incapable of coming up with new and novel and innovative content and it's kind of like a tomb raider dragging cadavers from the soil reanimating them and then not even respecting them it is that the essence of your perspective on sort of mainstream movie franchises and what do you think that tells us more broadly so like we have to be asking ourselves why is russell brand a guy who literally only does like conspiracy shit now and like literally just like i'm going on rumble and i'm going to be very critical of vaccines in a way that is not allowed on youtube right like that's that's his whole shtick for him to have on like the critical drinkers like what does that tell you right i'm not gonna say like oh that means critical drinkers content what does that tell you but like a lot of it kind of feeds into the same audience you know it's that indeed that is yep as much as that may they may be crossover and everything it's just like but isn't then equal reason in a cynical sense the russell brand would bring on big figures that are willing to come on uh yeah but if they can't have a conversation about the same like kind of culture worse stuff that he regularly talks about then there's really no point just kind of what i was getting at i mean they don't talk about you know he doesn't really i don't i don't know i don't know if he has many conversations that aren't kind of explicitly aiming towards just doing things that his audience wants to hear but like he he had i could be wrong i could be wrong but he had an avenue in this conversation being an actor or he does bring it up at some points like he's talking to drinker about the nature of yeah he doesn't really do that much anymore no of course but he talks to drinker about like even the ather remake right and how that went very bad and that the he they talk for a little bit about how that's like almost part of the course with a lot of projects these days like i feel like there's an avenue here that he would bring drinker on for both monetary benefit exposure and for uh he can talk to him he knows what drinker's talking about he's familiar with the industry and i think he is a fan of his channel he's at least seen his videos i'm just saying that there's a lot of explanations for why he would i i don't even know it i'm i'm not even confident russell brand has ever heard of him before i feel like that could be the case but that he did at least watch some of his videos so there's something he has to like a couple like if he was at least he at least knows what kind of questions to ask him about of his content in a way that feeds into both of their demographics at the same time if i had like a um a person setting up interviews and stuff and they were emailing different people and they got access to a five million uh youtube reviewer person that i'd never heard of or seen the videos of i might you know jump in briefly and then find out what they mainly talk about and then i can ask them about that like i guess what i'm trying to say is they can be a lot more of a disconnected reason for him to come on doesn't have to be that the there's big crossover with their audience in relation to conspiracies yep perspective drinker i think that's wildly wrong because that metaphor you just gave me would have at least been entertaining unlike this movie uh no i like i i think uh we are definitely stuck in a rut as a culture when it comes to just um relying on the past and just like hey man i i can't believe that he said that because isn't that all of his content just saying like movies in the past were better taking up old ideas like you say um bringing back old characters no actors i think that's well we we went over it it's it's the it depends yeah it depends if you're if you're uh media landscape is studio movies or all movies is really just the well it could be both studio movies and all movies and that you're making the commentary about studio movies yeah um and at the same time like that he he misses the days of old for creation of movies not for uh he wants to see more of luke and indiana jones and stuff just kind of humiliating them on screen i'm trying i mean like i think the critical drinker and i agree on this that like they're rehashing old ip's and you need to have new ideas and it would be better if risks were taken like i i think that there are some basic things that we could agree on for sure maybe we have like different political leanings and different interpretations of things in the long run right to use them as this weird springboard to launch like a new generation of characters but they're never any good they're always unlikable idiots who are just um bore people to tears they're never any good they're always unlikable idiots that just bore people to tears like i think that that's a man like it's not untrue what he's saying but it just it reflects like a very narrow media diet you know it reflects a very narrow consumption of films which is always like that that's that's like most of the issue i have with like you know the the types of reviews that the critical drinker makes are kind of like the types of reviews that like ben Shapiro makes where it's like you're you're subjecting yourself to like very few films in a year like of course you're going to be mad at them and that's that's something you do you feel the same way about what did you say that you uh no i can see he exposes himself to more films than i previously thought you're not you're not really going outside of your what what is it called like a your purview your peripherals you know you're not really like trying to experience the best films in a year if all you're gonna say um i know this sounds a bit weird but if there were if you maybe feel there are particular movies that you've come across that you'd love to get more of a spotlight so you think they're incredible um i can of course pass them on okay so things that i think he would like um theoretically yeah but like if it's something that you're not even sure he would like but you just think it's so fucking good it needs to be seen more than i can you know you can try it with him sort of thing okay gonna watch us like the new indiana have you seen the raid the raid do you say the raid the raid were damp oh yeah yeah right okay good so the raid that one's got a lot of people know about that at this point yeah our worries and you know it's been a problem we've lost the ability to create new innovative stuff what we do and i'm sure he would argue and say like he saw the whale right but that's also like a big internet known movie right it's just reiterating the things that have been done before and i think he loved free guy also you can apply it to movies hey we all like movie you like shazam too right yeah but i mean i mean i made a review of it sit it's okay it's okay overall yeah it's fine it's fine yeah yeah tv shows music like i think he did love our i think he actually recommended that he loves free guy and our thing like we're just uh we're just recycling the same things we've done so many times already it's such a sad thing to look back on like generations from now they're gonna look back on this time and just think of it as the time when everyone just lost their imagination they lost their spirit free i disagree because i think it's only gonna get worse i disagree with what he's saying of like oh generations are gonna look back at this time and you know be like oh this is when they lost their imagination like it's gonna get a lot the trend is going in one direction i could buy it as a potential that it could get worse um i'm not sure because i don't know we'll see um i feel like there's arguments you can make one way or the other um the the way of things getting worse would probably be if well i mean i don't know like the ai stuff future with ai and just general trends but at the same time a lot of these films that you could say it as you know computer generated before computer generated right these factory assembly line like big budget films a lot of them are struggling this year and last year two actually so like and they can't keep losing money forever right something's gotta change um i mean damn has disney had like a film that could honestly be considered successful this year except for guardians or is it just guardians uh ant man i don't know you can't you ant man you can't say was successful little mermaid maybe broke even maybe but is that even good it depends how you define because if the little mermaid you can't just count the sales of the film you have to count the sales of the original but this film as well this film served as an advertisement to yeah they have disney stores and all the fucking i guess the only thing you can use as a point of reference is lion king made like 1.56 billion and Aladdin and beauty in the base made like 1 billion 1.1 yeah it was not as success off that so yeah and then of course yeah it's like they're they're post covid's not doing too well pixar hasn't had a successful film at the box office since toy story four post covet disney is not doing good yeah well i i guess the point being that um given that like what do you what do you kind of anticipate in terms of shifts at these because it's not just them right it's like Warner brothers in terms of like dc films um i think a great year for them what do you think what do you think changes in the next i mean well uh the mario movie was a huge hit it was so fast we're gonna see some video make a lot of money fast x didn't make a lot of money compared to its budget anyway i'm i'm just saying i'm saying when something explodes like the mario movie that's the studio uh and the last one was really successful too so and they're they're gonna they're gonna look at that and just be like ooh what do we do that's like the mario movie so well like well we'll see we'll see some video game adaptations maybe we'll see i don't know we'll we're gonna get into a different trend you know it might not be superhero shit who knows um yeah well we're kind of in a transitionary period so we kind of just have to see what what's going on there's a lot of weird like the making of biopic kind of like origin story movies coming out right now but they're all like direct to streaming they're like is the origin of beanie babies or flaming hot cheetos a blackberry right that's that's another one and then it was black bear i i want to take issue with blackberry being lumped in that because matt johnson's a real artist that created something before it was a trend and then unfortunately all these yeah his his film got got made before it started being a trend and i just want to point out that that's a really no i would i would recommend tetris yeah i was just thinking about the subject about yeah you'd very much like tetris yeah i would yeah i think it is informative and entertaining it's not like i think i think i saw the trailer and thought it looks worth checking out yeah it's a lot it's a kind of a movie that you know you'd be like oh good luck with that one being successful because it's going to take a lot of people promoting it to get it well that was apple that was apple tv i think that one yeah that's why no one knows about it for well it's it's strange because apple tv i think has been gone for like three four years and they've made a lot of stuff and i think there's a lot of money behind it but like there's like nobody really talks about anything yeah i don't know what's up it's also bullshit it's also a fucking bad streaming service they refuse to make an android app because they're you know yeah like so you can't even watch out on a plane if you have an android because you can only access it through browser i don't think any of their shits in 4k if it is it certainly didn't look like it their frame rates all fucked on my tv yeah i got it for free with like a frame range thing and so yeah like what i don't know what the fuck it's a terrible streaming service well i mean some of these streaming services have got to die right like they can't all they can't all last forever we're we're entering the age of people going back to piracy which is fine well it's just seemingly each of the streaming services is struggling to become profitable even the most successful like disney plus isn't profitable and that one of the most successful ones you're saying disney plus is not profitable i believe disney plus loses them a lot of money each quarter uh because do we have their their subscriptions are down seven and a half percent from last quarter i can't remember i remember i'm sure i'm sure their subscriptions are down i don't know if i buy it's not profitable uh damn i i remember reading it i don't think it is uh all i hear is that it's having big trouble this is this is something that i that uh disney expects it to be profitable by the end of the fiscal year 2024 so it's not that i mean a strategy for a lot of streaming services is growth growth growth growth and then sometime down the line when you already have hundreds of millions of people subscribed you need to find a way to transition it into being profitable you gotta pay for the infrastructure and then you gotta pay for like contracts for the content and then develop these services too the services are expanded to run the infrastructure yeah which which disney plus is like a better running service than apple tv plus so well i i guess the point being that if you have because it's netflix there's uh amazon prime disney plus peacock apple tv what's the other one i think is really hurting wow it's i i wonder i wonder if it's got because do people understand that that's universal like do people understand that peacock is universal or do they associate it more with nbc well i just learned what it was a second ago so okay well i think they had a on video game adaptations a twisted metal tv show i think came out yeah that's right all right let's keep watching not to not to tangent at all it's just metal just every message saying apparently xqc lost a million dollars in gambling like what just now it's a tuesday like i was going to say it actually doesn't matter every fucking day it's fucking crazy it literally doesn't matter he loses a million dollars fucking opening his mouth i don't know where i was going i lose a million it's funny i still understood what you were saying it's not going back to me that's very interesting that you take it to something as essential as the spirit of creativity we're gonna get ai art in the next like five years we're gonna get like competent ai generated movies in the next like 10 years right itself i've got young daughters they're five and six their favorite band is the spice girls like we listen to the spice all right can you pause here yep so this is something where from my interpretation when you DM'd me that i think that you misinterpreted what was said here so i just want to i want the okay i want i want us to pay close attention to the words here and also this is this is a question that he asks later again in the interview and critical drinker says two things one of them a bit more explicitly the second time i didn't have the time stand i didn't have the time to figure out what time stamps were but so we can just keep that in our memory it's getting dropped off at the school like similar age they will listen into the spice girls it doesn't even even something in the culture which i think at the time i would have certainly regarded as a sort of a commodity even though it had a great deal of spirit and there's aspects of the spice girls i like the details i certainly won't be going into right now what i'd like to say is that it's odd that even something that's commercial you know we're not talking about like jones yet we're talking about the spice girls you can i mean okay i understand what you're saying you can say that i have said that depending on what culture you're in depending on like what you're exposed to like there's still new things that like newer generations are being exposed to right like you know the spice girls wasn't like the cutoff point for creativity in music or like even catchiness in music right like me as a child my brother as a child like we were exposed to like what my dad listened to like he listened to a bunch of 70s music right so for you to say like oh my daughters listen to the spice girls because i showed them the spice girls and also their friends listen to the spice girls because their parents showed them the spice girls that's just indicative of you being from a generation that listened to the spice girls and also other generations of parents having children that listened to the spice girls right like there were plenty of kids my age when i grew up in my brother's age that listened to 70s shit because their parents showed them that right that doesn't mean that they didn't listen to new shit right yeah i think that's totally fair russle yeah there's plenty of reasons why they might be listening to the spice girls those kind of commodities aren't being replaced and also we've like glastonbury elton john being the sort of closing act it makes you wonder well where's it gonna go now do you think this is because of economics do you think it's all right i thought he was leading into a question that i was familiar with there isn't a new raft of movie styles coming in what the fuck are you talking about you're not watching the right movies is the problem this is what pisses me off about this this is the same so uh before listen so your understanding of saying there aren't movie stars do you take it to be a strict definition of very popular actors i'm right now i'm confused as to him saying stars or styles on my stream i i responded as if he said styles and now listen listening to this multiple times i think he meant stars but he says it in a way that's like his accent it's kind of difficult to tell but i think he meant stars and critical drinker responds as though he uh was talking about stars yeah so my actual answer my actual commentary on this is after critical drinker talks because i heard russle brand say something else and i'm talking about styles and not stars for reason i was pissed off like when people were acting like crazy rich agents was like oh yeah finally we can have Asian people in the movie i'm like i'm trying to recommend like fucking korean movies this entire time like telling people to watch this shit you know like like i get it it's different it's like Asian American whatever like i've updated my perspective on that but it's it is frustrating as a person that is actively seeking out art and like trying to find experiences that are meaningful and like purposeful to me and then people are acting as if those those experiences don't exist when they just like they don't even make the effort and they don't even try to like see these things out like you know thank fucking christ parasite got as popular as it did you know like but part of the problem is like it literally takes the movie being such a big hit and like winning best picture for like people to see it like it has to spread so vigorously through not only word of mouth but through like heavy advertising right whereas like people just like i don't know why people are so scared to like go to a film festival why people are so scared to like watch i mean uh as much as i i want to agree with you completely like there is a fairness of understanding the average person doesn't treat movies this way they treat them as like in the same way we treat a lot of things in life which like sort of go in go out and do other things not like living i'll agree there but i think i think that there's a large amount of people that want something more out of a movie that are looking for more out of a movie and if if the the if the barrier towards accessing uh smaller independent films was the same degree as the barrier towards accessing smaller independent video games then we'd see a very different landscape we'd see very different conversations and more people would be getting what they want but like um the average person looks to someone like drinker or at times someone like uh i was gonna say like pretty much anybody and they want advice because they don't want to spend time looking they want people to tell them where to go and of course mainline theaters are going to have all the mainstream movies uh something like the whale i think i wanted to see that the second you recommended it and i was like how do i see this like you will be able to for like a year i was like oh cool but obviously i could go theoretically unless you go to film festivals yeah um i just uh there's something that i think makes a lot more sense for my sort of area but the average person i just i don't really uh film festivals are publicly available no i know but like i'm trying to say like do you think the average person is like yeah i'll go because how many films do you watch on average per day in a film festival as many as you want but for me personally like three but you you can watch one movie and then leave but you can you know of course but like there's a lot of factors right like there's the the travel the cost the time for any normal person there's film festivals happening fucking everywhere people act as if like they're not all over like it really there's a there's a london film festival there's there's fucking atlanta film festival there's vancouver film festival there's like seattle every major city has a film festival pretty much uh they don't all have the exact same lineup but there's a surprising amount of good shit that you can find at like most uh film festivals yeah um but like it just sounds like you you you find it like hypocritical but you would you buy the argument if they said to you that they're not they're not doing that they've not got the time and patience for it that they want to get recommendations from someone else uh i'm not sure that question is what we were i'm not i'm not sure what that question is i'm confused it doesn't necessarily contradict anything you've said previously i'm just assuming that would be a position you agree with wait i'm sorry we gotta go back okay wait back in the video or back up so you were saying uh no just like wait so let's just repeat the question uh would you be would you understand a person that tells you they love film but they're not spending any time on discovering it they're gonna look at recommendations instead um yeah which is which is something that i acknowledge in part of why my channel exists when i say i don't know why people are so afraid to go to a film festival that's not a statement directed at the critical drinker specifically that's a statement directed at like the general audience i wish part of what i try to do to my you know that's part that's part of what i do on my channel is to help people get more comfortable with the idea of doing something like that and help to legitimize it and popularize it and have it become a normal part of film conversations instead of star wars i mean i assume you agree that a healthy media diet would also include maybe reading some books playing games uh watching tv shows here and they're trying to spread out a bit in all forms of media and in the same vein i doubt people who love books go to so to speak book fairs or video game conventions necessarily they could and you could encourage them to to discover more but they you wouldn't necessarily you know compel them to no no no no no but but movies movies are particular here because again with books are the exact same way as video games are any exact same way where like music is where self-publishing is like the easiest fucking thing in the world you can put your own like critical drinker publishes book on kindle or amazon or whatever right like and you can just share it to your audience and people can find it that way right it's a different barrier with movies and that's why i feel like film festivals are beneficial and necessary at least for now maybe they won't have to be forever but right now that's how you expose yourself to interesting new subversive challenging artists and you know actual creators that aren't just doing whatever the studio thinks will be the most profitable thing at any given point in time right so that's why i talk about that way with film uh and i i don't think that that really applies to video games music and books like no one no one's saying like uh all books why modern books are bad right because we don't have that same issue when it comes to the barriers for people to access them and people to get exposed to them um so that conversation that's the case because movies just tend to be the most talk to file cultural event even though video games seem to be the ones that have the most engagement which is kind of interesting um it's it's not it's not to do with how much it's talked about it's it's to do with the barriers that are put up by studio interest and ownership of movie theaters like when you play a game it's on your computer you don't there's no gigantic let you you don't have to go to the fucking amc gaming room where they get to decide which fucking games you play right there's it's entirely different barriers of entry and accessibility so that that's oh and it's worth mentioning drink is not self published um he's not but it doesn't change your point um the yeah the the the nature of it to me though i i would assume is uh could you argue the other direction that the fact that you can i have so much access to all kinds of video games music and books without having to go to film festivals necessarily is probably part of the explainer why people are uh much more ready to engage in something like that and reasonably speaking that's exactly what i'm saying yeah well that's why i'm saying it's which is why i'm trying to make people more comfortable yeah i'm trying to make it less stigmatized and less like you know the the taking the first step into doing something is the hardest part of doing it right cool the the whole idea of like building it up what you were saying earlier like you know the travel the time the blah blah blah blah a lot of those things you don't really have to consider depending on which festival you go to or how you do it um you know location or like you can make it a part of another trip anyway if you want to like if you're thinking of visiting vancouver because you think like oh i would like to visit vancouver someday maybe plan it around the film festival or something if the film festival thing doesn't fucking work out you can just have a nice vacation if you if you you know fuck that up but there's really not you know as you get there's subreddits for like there's a tiff subreddit where people ask each other questions unlike you know like should i buy this type of ticket pack or like what should i expect for this you know like there is a know-how to certain festivals but really the barrier of entry is not um it's it's it's more intimidating than it actually is and i'm gonna say i don't like to help break down that personally i don't think it's about discomfort or intimidation i assume it's almost explicitly just i'm not doing that i got time for that apathy yeah i think that's a part of the same thing i think that's a part of the same thing if people if people don't see a good enough reason to do it they're not gonna be interested in it right part of that is is to say like hey you could get you could see the whale fucking six months early if you just see it in fucking vancouver film festival there's still tickets i tried to get fucking charlie moist critical to come to vancouver for that but then he's he's scared of playing so oh couldn't do it well um yeah which i didn't know before and then he's made videos about so i just uh for me i guess what i'm trying to get at is i i wouldn't see it as a problem if someone said i had dual film but i ain't going to film festivals if i if i went to london film festival i don't know where how close you are but if i went to london film festival and i picked out some movies or whatever with you would you go with me um we could talk about it baby sounds like it could be fun watch an indie movie all right but you understand the main reason i'd want to do that is to do it with you not because i'm going there in general oh yeah and if and if that's if that's what it takes for you to show up and be like oh this is actually pretty cool and not intimidating and there's some good shit here and you know you might want to do it again the next year you know be more engaged and more interested in in the type of media you consume like why are people so like it seems like nobody fucking talks about the shit that's interesting to me and that's part of what's frustrating about this you know of the culture is that because of technology and of course i know those two things are inextricably linked but what do you put it down to yeah i mean i think um the the last movie star that we have still active really know that tom cruise it's possible coming out soon that's probably gonna do really well this summer top gun man what do you mean by movie sir do you mean action star so uh what i'll give you here is that he's not been asked by russle to explain exactly what he means but my assumption i don't even i don't know if he's uh necessarily made this explicit in videos but obviously i talked to him for like a good five hours per week about all these subjects i believe he's specifically referring to uh actors that are able to sell a movie on their acting sort of uh reputation alone that they are a guarantee of entertainment on their own and that that's gone um i i i go into further detail about this in the stream so i guess i'll hold off on my comments until that point tom cruise isn't the last movie star maybe he's the last person like i i think i feel like that's a real generational bias when you say that tom cruise is the last movie star like ryan gosseling is gonna be like pretty fucking famous by the time he's like 50 60 something right like if he isn't all i've noticed that my you you mentioned ryan gosseling i've noticed that my mom for whatever reason has taken quite an interest in watching a lot of ryan gosseling movies on like netflix streaming services he's been big for a while he's like a i find this one an interesting point because tom cruise has been you could say like a movie star since he was in his 20s ryan gosseling is in its 40s so but then you also say like well yeah maybe when he's 50 he'll be one almost it kind of sounds like that's what you said i find that strange i feel like but i also sorry go for it go for it i also i also think that there's like a bit of a disconnect between how we view the term movie star because i think a lot of people that might be brought up as examples by critical drinker or anyone else making this argument would be people like tom cruise jackie chan you know like arnold sorts of nigger like a lot of these a lot of these people aren't necessarily just movie stars but like they also come with the the the whole package of like ooh they do their own stunts or ooh like they're like this huge bodybuilder sort of thing so i get that in the sense of like this weird parasocial celebrity star power like we're not i don't know if we're going to see another michael jackson in the music industry i don't know if that means that music's getting worse right i think that let people over time are becoming less uh uh tricked or less um i think people over time are learning a bit more about uh celebrities and culture in a way where they're not like attached to it in this weirdly parasocial way or uh i think that's maybe celebrity culture is like dying down at least to the average person i don't know if average is the right word maybe it's i think that it's becoming more popular to not care as much about celebrity culture i think that that is a growing thing well i think it's more become like influencer based and internet based and in that kind of thing maybe that's pulled away some of the attention from what it used to be which was you know movie stars but now that you know technology and social media and the way that we interacted with those things socially it's become more of the um the the tiktok youtube internet influencer that kind of celebrity sort of thing well either yeah kind of the question depends on the generation and it depends on the demographic maybe we're just more split what do you if uh if the movie star as a selling point for movies is going away what do you think it's being replaced with i don't i don't think that it's gone away entirely like i don't know what is the right i mean i mean like going away what do you think it would be like if it's decreasing what do you think is increasing then as a selling point for movies i i don't think that it necessarily has to be or is uh being replaced by anything i think i say at some point in this stream that people are becoming more director conscious which is a good thing and i think that that is a thing that is happening in terms of why someone would watch a movie there are more uh the average audience member has a higher understanding of uh directors names like there's a higher pool of directors names that can sell a movie than there was in the past i think that's a good thing because i think that directors are the most responsible for what their film turns out to be um i don't think that's entirely being replaced but i mean like the reason people saw Oppenheimer sure maybe not everybody but big reason why studios trust Christopher Nolan is because people will see it because of his name on the film right uh the thing is i'm not i'm not convinced by the the idea that directors are getting more well known i feel like there's specific people sure but like if you ask the average person to name 10 i think i'd be curious to see what their list would be and if they could well even if if let's say if let's say the average person had a list of five i would argue that fucking 20 years ago their list would have been three you know i think i think that and uh maybe George Lucas uh for us would be yeah at least god James Cameron but but again like a lot of a lot of those names even are not like we're we're talking from like a person i know that a lot of us that talk about movies on the internet are like film nerds or like science fiction fans in that respect you know like yeah i don't think the average person watching a fucking Ridley Scott movie throughout his career was like oh yeah the new Ridley Scott i don't think the average person i don't even think he's like a big enough name that the average person is aware of that whereas i think like i think more people might be aware of like Wes Anderson at this point yeah i don't know maybe as a name uh Wes Anderson's a fucking tiktok meme right now like people are like oh i'm doing sure with like the the ai stuff and everything i guess me maybe i'm speaking relatively right like the equivalent director of his time back then would have likely the equivalent notoriety but maybe not and maybe this is an anomaly because there's more names you know like the old ai Wes Anderson stuff conversation about film is a part of internet culture and discourse and is naturally spreading to people in a way that you know people that might not even be looking up things about film will inevitably find i think that i think that conversations about directors are getting more popular and i think that well people are becoming more aware of people you know controlling behind the scenes and shit guess the Wes Anderson one isn't because asteroid city that's Wes Anderson right and that's made 47 million dollars yeah i mean you can know of his name without wanting to watch one of his movies but i thought the context was uh names of selling points yeah the conversation about movie stars is that you know them and your interests like will smith right was he was yeah he had every film debuted at number one that's like that's what that's probably what people mean when they say movie star no matter what film is attached to people are gonna there's gonna be some interest in it whereas i don't know i mean it can increase your likelihood of selling a film for sure i think people are more aware of directors names not more than movie stars not not by a long shot i'm just saying it's becoming a bigger slice of the pie than it was before and that that's not necessarily like oh because i know a director's name that means that i'm you know the average person is going to watch every one of those movies like there's some things that people get excited for and some things that other people don't get excited for Wes Anderson's got a lot of fucking haters too right like what there's tons of viral posts of people being like wow he just does the same thing you know like so there's a so it's not necessarily like that that translates to money in the same way that like you can have a somebody a star that everybody knows fucking after earth bombs you know will smith was in that wasn't that the special thing about it though the trajectory of what's special though it ended his streak um that was unexpected yeah exactly word now in the same way that like a director being known doesn't necessarily translate to that an actor doesn't necessarily either i think it's fine if we break away from that yeah but the the idea with the label of movie star was you could say that up until after earth like what smith was just guaranteed to make you money with like maybe one or two exceptions whereas now i don't know i don't know like what actor you could attach because scholar jennison was an asteroid city she's one of the highest paid actresses in the world it's like well that didn't get that film above like 100 200 which maybe it was never going to yeah the rock in the black adam like people also like yeah i also have to understand with wes anderson movies is that the the studio strategic approach when it comes to releasing them is very very different uh than mainstream films right like um you have like a big universal disney warner brothers movies like they'll they'll be putting their films in fucking like ultra uh sony whatever blot d box and like all the big theaters or whatever but then you get like a more more indian artists like wes anderson who still works with studios and production companies like fox searchlight which is now owned by disney and what they've done even before they were owned by disney what essentially their strategy with his films was put it in a small amount of theaters have a small release and then base whether or not they're going to expand the release on how uh how many seats are filled within those smaller theaters asteroid city is a is a film that you know a lot of his fans checked out i'm sure it had like a pretty good uh seat filled ratio at the beginning but i'm pretty sure it dropped off too because it's pretty inaccessible it's not like it's not an it's not a wes anderson film that you'd immediately go to someone else and be like oh you got to watch this new one whereas like a lot of his other films the the studio approach the fox searchlight approach is just see which one's spread by word of mouth to the point where we can put enough faith in it to put it everywhere like this it's it's a problem with distribution that has been a long time issue with wes anderson films and a lot of uh you know not huge disney marvel blah blah blah properties is there they're not willing to they're not willing to uh put a lot of faith in the distribution unless it proves itself and sometimes that's just a self-fulfilling prophecy of like okay well nobody saw a trailer for this it wasn't it was barely in any theaters like of course like you know didn't reach a huge audience right so may my explanation for that would be very much included in a lot of the stuff you just said but also because i don't believe wes anderson would be able to sell a movie to mainstream audiences just on his name alone anyway like i don't know how much that really truly would add meanwhile it felt like once upon a time audiences had faith in in being entertained by individual actors and that we moved away from that what does that mean definitively i think there's a whole bunch of conversations to be had there i i don't i don't know how much we have moved away from it because the rock like he's had like maybe one or two flubs right like black adam and baywatch the rest of his movies are like one again like wil smith one was like the rest of the jungle thing like guaranteed to make a hundred dollars exactly like that made money didn't it uh no i kind of think i did no i don't think so uh and he was on a streak for a while though and dc's league of super pets he had his big his name and big bold letter both from that that wow but i mean still doesn't that speak to like their advertising dwayne johnson and then dc you know league of super pets and tidy text they thought he'd sell the movie and it didn't didn't work yeah but i feel like he has a like it's a more modern example of wil smith in terms of like yeah it's not a 100 guarantee but there you know he has a big streak he has a big streak and he's not you know i don't know what else to call the rock other than a movie star uh well i guess that's the the interesting thing is that people you know if you ask somebody who's like modern movie star people would point to the rock and it's like uh-oh waning a little bit you know and i mean mission possible definitely and just to clarify just like i imagine a drinker would agree with this as well like there are plenty of very famous and talented actors and actresses that that's not really got anything to do with it necessarily also this is very uh america centric because there's tons of i think they are talking about america though social yeah yeah and i guess united kingdom like that wasn't necessarily a criticism it was a reminder no yeah you're right already like star of the barbie movie star of like so many the drive and all the shit like i'm sure you love drive you know like i'm sure drive the drive is a very easily accessible movie to like even people like critical drinker right like ryan gosseling is you know maybe not like action star like tom cruise like i don't know like we're i understand what you mean i understand what you're saying but i also feel like tom cruise has been along like around way longer than current generation stars in the in the sense that like maybe we'll see movie stars that are just as big but they're not from america maybe we'll see movie stars that are just as big but they're not necessarily known for action right like i don't know if i'm comfortable saying that it's like the last where we're gonna see chris pratt that's a good example chris pratt's like probably fucking huge yeah i say that that's the one i actually kind of agree with i think chris pratt's the closest beyond tom cruise which to be fair tom cruise did not sell dead reckoning enough did he no dead reckoning is not not doing that also he decided to release it during barbenheimer like yeah i i don't know why people keep saying this i think that it like use mission impossible fallout made 800 million dollars it's a big franchise it's got a bunch of actors in it and tom crew and top gun maverick last year made like 1.3 billion dollars i don't know why people keep saying they should have moved it's like they thought they were gonna make more and it wasn't reasonable they yeah i mean understand the hype culture i'm willing to agree that barbenheimer is drawn from it but i also really like controversially want to say that i'm pretty sure it's partly to do with its poor quality dead reckoning is nowhere near as good as fallout i'm sorry yeah i mean yeah maybe maybe if people were shouting from the heavens that it's the best movie ever then it would have helped it out but i think so like it's also long person the average person watching like two movies in a weekend is already a huge part of especially when one of them is three hours right part of a movie's big success would be the legs right and like a lot of them need repeatability or at least recommendations and i just don't think dead reckoning had much of any of that as much as people would say like what do you mean everyone recommended it's like yeah but i wonder how much i wonder how much that reflected like a conversation between friends and people being like i gotta go see dead reckoning gotta go see it as opposed to other films that were out at the time yeah i wonder i just don't think i don't think many people re-saw it too i think they were like no one was enough i think well everybody's moved on i think everybody's already moved on it's not fun that people want to talk about anymore whereas a lot of the films that prove successful are the films people were talking about weeks and even months lighter my my autistic cousin re-saw it what do you think and what do you what do you think it was a joke i'm sorry oh there's a plan there is an autistic cousin re-saw it was set up a additional joke totally yeah yep in so many places right and you felt for it last year i'm so done there's a problem now in movies particularly where we don't have movie stars anymore we have characters that people are excited to see yo so it particularly with comic book movies with all this superhero stuff it'll be this is not necessarily untrue it is an observation that i've definitely seen probably again i've said it um have fun no problem yeah let's hear him out okay so hey we're gonna go and see the new captain america movie we're gonna see the new thor movie we don't care about the actor that's playing him really it's just like the character that we're going to see and so that then the amendment that i would probably add to what drink is saying is because i think if you appeal to character i think that that has more value than what it probably is which is that people are really invested in intellectual properties like they're interested in a franchise more so than like so people it's not like i'm invested in the character ethan hunts it's like i mean it's probably more so like oh it's mission impossible you know and tom cruise right compared to yeah because investment in the character seems more like that that's more rooted in the actual like material in the story rather than because like robert downey jr i guess is probably the interesting one right nobody saw do little even though he was yeah nobody's gonna watch uh an iron man without him it's like this interesting exactly where people want to watch robert downey jr as iron man specifically uh with an investment in marvel as a broader ip which is kind of like a fascinating sort of thing you know like it's it's kind of an interesting look hello we're just talking about uh actors plus characters what sells versus just the actor these days or at least in particular spheres a star did my chair provide adequate commentary i'm sure it did it was it transformed the conversation that's this is a weird one because it is kind of a trend but i don't necessarily like i think what we're seeing like i think we kind of agree that we might phrase it in different ways where it's like we see a lot of actors that are going into superhero roles and reprising those roles and so it's like robert downey jr for 10 for like a fucking decade at least is not robert downey jr he's iron man right um chris pratt it's still chris pratt like he's you know chris pratt's a really good example to kind of contradict this isn't he like chris pratt is still getting so many roles like he was in the fucking mario movie right like why did he get cast for that um and he's doing very well that's true um like chris pratt is interesting to look at in reference to all of this outside of yeah like people people don't see him as star lord and even even in the context of guardians in the galaxy it's not like people saw it because star lords in it it's because chris pratt is playing star lord yeah um well i see that as with all the characters like i don't think thul will do as well without chris hemswith and i don't think uh i can't make the same argument the hulk actually how you see it i think the interesting thing with with you you know i'm like oh chris pratt is a movie star it's like oh yeah that's a mario war what was the name of the character he played uh john jam john something come on john no no james james nine ham try again uh it's not john it's a different uh no a jacob jingle irish mint pratt so so the character's name is actually dan forest dammit dan oh i couldn't guess that i'm sad that i didn't guess they're making a sequel i think they're making a sequel they are making a sequel what did you what did you guys think about that awful what a load of poor shit it's actually one of the worst movies i've seen but it's funny yes it is funny it is funny but it's terrible and yes they are making a sequel because it was that was an infuriating movie that was an hated it that's a day i hated it world i mean that's done but still you know massively financially successful um i don't i don't know if i necessarily wholeheartedly agree with the idea that there's no movie stars anymore but i will say that i guess it feels kind of different with stars in general so like you could say the same thing about music you could say the same thing about like we'll never see a music star as big as michael jackson and i think that has less to do with the quality of music that's available and more to do with people maybe like over time globally getting kind of more level headed when it comes to the idea of like celebrity worship culture like maybe that has a bit something more to do with it like i think people worship tom cruz in like a very obsessive like weird fucking way in the same way that like people did that recently with like i don't know kanye and kim kardashian like all these tabloid people like brad you could say the same thing about like brad pit and like um i can i don't know jennifer aniston and who's the other women need a tomb raider you know like be on jelena jelly queen b that like you could say the same thing about a lot of people i think that maybe we've kind of like been more level headed and gravitating a war sorry away from celebrity worship culture in a way and that's nice do you think i'm not i feel like the celebrities have just shifted from like the movie star to the tiktok influencer youtuber twitch streamer when i say shifting away i don't mean that most people don't do it i'm saying i'm just saying i'm just saying that there is from at least what i can notice which you know no one can do this accurately kind of just see what you see in the world but it feels like enough people are shifting away in a way that is noticeable to me but i could be wrong i was careful in this stream i i think i even said the word maybe yeah yeah because well because i think there's arguments in both directions but my intuition says like we're in it's getting worse and worse with how crazy everyone's getting online with like worshiping individuals but you know maybe we'll see we'll see how it goes maybe it'll be easier to tell in 10 years not necessarily indicative of like the quality of the art that they're creating or the quality of movies or the quality of the actor or the quality of the musician right like i don't i don't i don't know i agree with what he's saying in terms of like there's been a notable trend in how people worship celebrities but like i don't know if that necessarily translates to translates to that means that you know like stars are worse or like actors are worse or something right and get people to go to the movie theater and see his latest film you know back when probably you and i were kids the the dominant forces of the box office were like oh i'm gonna go and see the latest Arnold Schwarzenegger movie you know what i kind of agree but i think that this is a step in the right direction because i would rather i would rather have people seeing the new movie made by the director and as we've seen recently you know people saw the new fucking Christopher Nolan movie right like there's directors that have made themselves prominent enough to connect with people in a way where they know their name and there's very few of them actors are the most obvious because they're the ones on the screen and so many people would just be like oh i like Hugh Jackman and they go see the new Hugh Jackman movie right i think that's a step in the right direction to not weigh so much in terms of actors but think about more of directors right like i think that people are growing in that sense where they if um if i completely believe that that we'd move to respecting directors instead of actors i think i'd be on board i just don't know that we've done that at all i think it's just we've just lost on the respect do you think that even sorry i didn't mean to interrupt no it's all good do you think that even if it's not replaced by directors do you think that it's a bad thing that people aren't seeing movies because of the actors in it i think it is a neutral thing until we figure out what the context behind it is what it means and like i said i think in drinkers case he doesn't get to say what he means by it yeah because that's what's confusing to me about um i guess this interview is because i like it just seems to be like a common sentiment among people but it just seems to just kind of be one of those things where it's like this is new and it you know the implication is that it's bad i think you know you take a step back it's like oh wait so wait if this is a trend why is it bad and that's why i'm confused the what is probably better is that people are rooting their interest in things that they want to see based on the people who are creating it just simply for the fact that it is focused on that creator side which seems like it's going to be more and more relevant right as AI becomes more prevalent of like a focus and interest in the people who are behind the thing that you enjoy and to some extent the actor you know obviously the director is in charge of the creative process of making a film but the actor you know lead actors play an important role in it too and if it gets replaced with oh yeah new ant-man movie or something and then nobody knows who's writing or directing it like i don't know that that would be and people aren't necessarily watching it because pull rods in it but because you know how does it connect to like a future marvel project i don't know that that's better you know that's the big depressing element is the writers are barely cared about at all nobody yeah like how often you see except for like aron sorkin maybe maybe the average person probably still doesn't know who aron sorkin is yeah yeah if if if it's being entirely replaced by just ip then yeah that's a bad thing i don't i mean i feel i feel like although there are more ip focused movies now in terms of how they sell a movie i don't know if i don't know if people's sensibilities have shifted in terms of if let's say in the 1990s this this trend of remakes and blah blah blah if let's say it existed then i don't know if people would be any less susceptible to it uh in terms of like oh you know just because whether or not jackie chan and tom cruiser a thing i don't think influences how susceptible people are to nostalgia uh marketing so i don't know if it's necessarily being replaced by that is what i'm saying nostalgia marketing is an interesting one because it seems to me like it's it's not working as much anymore remember obu on kanobi remember how hyped everybody was getting with the uh when i planned you know i was relatively hyped myself i was so hyped i'm not even kidding because i adore ewan mcgregor as obu won and that fucking shit was awful i'm not going to say that i thought it was going to be good but i didn't but uh i was willing to give it a try you know and and if the people behind and or were given full control of the obu one show i guarantee you would have ended up with something pretty strong that would have been really exciting but oh well if only they realize that just as an and or but nice a movie doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be good so i you know i i agree with this as being a trend in that direction where like just because an actor's in a movie doesn't mean it's going to sell i think that's a good thing personally i'm going to see the latest alone maybe the latest bruce willis movie all people like that they were stars that could sell films just on their star power we don't have that anymore and that's a fucking good thing in my opinion and it's the same problem with the you know with them i would like okay so here's my issue so he's he's he's explained this as an issue that he has he goes you used to be able to sell movies on star power let me take a wild fucking guess and assume that by the end of this video he's not going to explain why that's a bad thing because essentially what he's doing right here which is a lot of well which is the content that i've seen from him is he's kind of appealing to this like the past was great which i mean you know i'm i'm not saying that he has every belief that every conservative commentator that i've seen talk about things that are not movies i'm not saying that they're all the same person but it appeals to the same audience in the sense that like there's a lot of old people there's a lot of people that are getting older i'm fucking 32 right like i'm getting older you know like i don't consider myself to be ancient but a lot of things that people in my generation millennials are experiencing are based in nostalgia they they're based on like oh you know like i have good memories of these things in the past it's a very like easy thing to get like sucked into it's a very easy thing to just uncritically just accept and want right um but i think that there needs to be a bit more of an argument than just it was in the past and therefore it's good right um there's the box office for all people like that they were stars that could sell i want to hear him talk about why it's a bad thing that an actor doesn't draw box office numbers by being an actor alone i want to hear him justify that and i don't i think in the shortest answer possible you give you is the audience is don't have as much faith in the actors being a part of something that's going to be entertaining which he sees as like a loss i don't uh i don't see that as a bad thing i i think i agree with you that it would be a neutral thing but the the fact is like the background i would assume many would argue is that it's brought on by too many bad projects in a row involving all kinds of people like there's no necessary pattern for the mainstream studio productions that like it connects to a particular director particular right a particular actor it's just all over i mean i'm speaking from the perspective of someone who has no issue finding things that i think i will enjoy based on the people creating them and again this just goes back to like i wish the tools are available i have these tools i know how to use them i'm just trying to help people understand how they can find those tools to find what they want but this still exists in um because the mainstream is huge there's loads of stuff going on and the idea that i could be like i'm going to see the new james cameron film and then be like jesus fucking christ that was terrible okay ridley scott what have you got and then i see like alien covenant or something it's like oh god and they're like well who else we got uh you know you run to someone and just like okay these aren't reliable anymore i can't guarantee myself exactly yeah but meanwhile they may very well be even actors or writers or directors in uh further indie markets that are much more reliable and i think it's admirable to try and promote them absolutely but that uh this sentiment would still be true it's probably what i would uh argue what he's saying because the the context for their conversation is all within mainstream okay i don't think he's gonna do it by the end of this video if he does then i you know whatever but like i've i've only ever heard people talk about that in the sense of this is something that doesn't happen anymore and you know without explaining further we're supposed to think that that inherently because it doesn't happen anymore is why it's bad right but i you know things change like i'm sorry like there's a lot of things that change um and i know change can be scary uh but we all have you know individually societally generationally we all have kind of tests as to how we can accept change and how we can deal with change how we can adapt to change right like adaptation is you gotta adapt you know like shit's gonna move on without you if you don't adapt right so you can't i don't know what we'll see if he ever explains why that's bad but i've never heard an argument for it which is why i'm not expecting it oh film is just on their star power we don't have that anymore we don't have it anymore um and it's the same problem with uh you know with um films in general you know we we um we don't want to take the risk now of inventing new things because one movies are massively expensive and so they don't want to take the risk of investing 200 300 million dollars on something that's completely unproven and so all they'll do is say well what's a surefire hit well i don't know star wars used to be popular let's do that indiana jones was popular let's i agree i completely agree with what you're saying right now do that you know let's just keep recycling the things that older people remember um and two we don't i've criticized this exact same thing have the the talented writers with with really interesting life experience i completely disagree we do have the talented writers in the mainstream is he ever clarifying that in in this video that all of this is in the context of the mainstream that's what russell brand introduced to this okay and you with your two million almost two million fucking subscriber channel are not promoting them this is part of the issue that i'm sorry like and to be fair he does promote mainstream writers that he thinks are good as well he doesn't like because obviously he's been hyperbolic he's not saying every single film made within you know over a 50 million budget or more or 50 million are all bad he obviously he's reviewed many that he thinks are very good and that he would promote the creators of those in those he's just saying that the general trend that were overwhelmingly in a bad place for mainstream writers which uh you know like it's depressing some of the stuff you discover like i was talking about earlier with the marvel writers i don't know what the fuck they're thinking um i don't know if you've seen the comments from like a lot of them when their projects come out and everyone hates them like what they end up saying um the director of secret invasion said that uh people need to understand that when it comes to action scenes like those are mathematical there's no emotion in them and so they're kind of boring to film sometimes or straightforward anyway well it absolutely batshit man you you don't know you yeah what was the thing you don't want to like that like the film because the show wasn't people didn't like it very much it was he said he's happy people don't like it because he'd prefer to create something that like has all kinds of reactions i think something like that but the thing is nobody likes it and if it was good you'd say yeah this is a disappointing outcome because everybody likes it and that wasn't one of the yeah i hate it what everybody approves of my work that's like Lars von Trier he's happiest when people are pissed at him i you know what because ryan john says that he wants he wants all reactions i see that validity is that but the thing is the secret invasion one is absolute cope because there's nobody talking about how good secret invasion liked it everybody hated it it didn't get watched by many people it was complete failure and a waste of hundreds of millions of dollars a fascinating waste if you were actively seek out like there's so many people writing so many different things there's so many people directing so many different things like the type of media that you want to see exists it's out there and you would fucking love it and all you would have to do is just like look for it and you could use your platform on the internet to help to help promote it like i want to see charlie kaufman get his fucking next project out the ground i want to see it have money like i want to be able to like promote whatever kickstart he has to do like i want to see more films from the creators that i love and i man like it's what he's talking about like what he wants to see doesn't exist and that's it's frustrating like oh man experiences that they can translate into the scripts uh so they don't have the ability to create new things that are really he just says like writers are bad now like talent didn't disappear like whatever you think is good writing from the 80s or whatever it's not like people can't do that like you're just not promoting the people who can right surely you know you got rustle crow on your channel surely for the record he definitely does i'm just saying like you have enough exposure and connections to be able to promote the people that can right like you know make your make make a fucking movie studio or something like i don't know like i'm trying to do artistic well yeah and then of course it was it was a strange comics i assumed you may have known it i don't know but like he was in canada right like when you was streaming this uh on set i think it's just i was not aware of that fair enough projects like my problem is time right now and i'm trying to fix that um i would like to do like actual writing shit you know interesting and cool it seems like i'm trying i'm trying to make steps towards doing that hamill has almost been trying to publicly have any ideas for what you want to make out of curiosity i have fucking it's fucking hundreds of fucking the challenge is like just organizing them into a cohesive idea i i uh yeah i need to restructure what i'm doing in my life to move basically make more time for that because i i have i have like solid ideas of what i want to do and how i want to do it and i hit a roadblock of being like wait a minute but i'm trapped in this cycle of needing to do this other stuff to make money so i gotta increase the amount of money i'm making for like i've never done a sponsor right so i'm i have to start doing that basically sometime soon um so i can actually have enough time in my schedule to be able to properly focus on fleshing out a script and you know actually creating something okay yeah well good luck with that that's that's cool yeah um yeah like what the franchise has done to the character of luke skywalker that he personally feels offended and affronted by it sometimes it seems to me that you're driven by a kind of a love of narrative and story and almost like joseph cambell like ideas of how a hero should function and what a story should do i've got a few things i want to run by i'm like i used to think it's like a little hypothesis of mine but american movie stars somehow embody how they regard how that nation in particular and let's face it it's still the nation that defines our planet like how it sees itself at a particular time like when it was fought to the guns alone it was a kind of rebooted 1980s america with heath you realize arnold sorton agar is like not not american really hard disagree with that on which was very american as a like an immigrant he's an american citizen he was the governor of california he was the governor i know but he's not he couldn't he couldn't be president he wasn't like born there so yeah you're right that the way i phrase that was improper well it's just he he's an american like he's an american citizen i just i american political office and i agree with you i agree with you we're talking we're talking we're also talking about a period of time where he was like before way before he was governor right it's like i believe that he was an american citizen before even the first terminated movie i i believe he was like for years yeah i believe i agree that he was a citizen i just think that it's it's a funny example with an accent that thick is what i'm saying we're talking about like he has a he has an interesting accent a very distinctive accent but he he definitely isn't that awesome though like that he'd be seen as quintessentially american when he's so clearly not got an american accent like i feel like that's a good thing that's not a bad thing well because he he would because uh his uh documentary on netflix which was really cool like he talks strongly in the bodybuilding episode about how strongly he identified with american culture uh that he needed to be in america he wanted to be over in america and i mean he he got about as fully involved in being an american as uh as you can get in terms of the impactful culture and and being in political office governor california the the if i were to think of like quintessentially american i guess i would think more stereotypically american and not just an american immigrant uh i well about it's like moa said right isn't that that's kind of interesting that anord schwarzneger could be considered american when in certain in some ways he doesn't come across as like i guess what you would consider like a hypostereotypical american action hero movie man and those and he influenced it right as a perception yeah as a man he wanted to capture america he said like he's he considers himself austrian and american and that they're like incredibly important to him as identities and of course what they're talking about which i completely agree with is he uh the the stars of the times will represent like attitudes toward um you know from whatever particular point of view as representative of american culture like it feels like it's um itself qualifies we all we're all very familiar with him being at the top of american movies for a long time yeah yeah he he was the governor of georgia eventually but like he can't run for pretty much california but yeah he's kind of like an insanely austrian accent right that's funny that i said that uh adam sandler i i did a movie with actually and who i think is really interesting and brilliant performer on comic and he like at a time when we were starting to learn for example that there weren't actually weapons of mass destruction in iraq adam sandler had this kind of our shucks i didn't mean it i like kind of mentality that aligns neatly with america that's trying its best and erring sometimes now perhaps what we have is man it's so crazy it's so a lot of the people that are doing like this weird like every every unexpected death is caused by the vaccine shit you know a lot of people that are doing this are like using the same sort of like feelings of like okay there were no weapons of mass destruction in iraq you know and it's like you're taking true things where it's like okay the government wasn't you know being honest with us at this particular point in time and they're saying like okay therefore every single thing that has been approved by any sort of governmental agency is you know like bullshit like i don't know they did put fluoride in our water so watch out but now my teeth the vaccine is not safer than getting than not getting a vaccine if covid didn't exist but with covid existing and the fact that it's so contagious that everybody who's going to get it the vaccine is safer than getting covid it's so insane that people are like oh yeah like obviously uh we're here to talk about the drinker and boofy stuff this is uh it would it would be it would be too long to unpack if we were it is no problem everyone's welcome to talk as much about their own uh covid things wherever they want yeah the the antibodies you get it's better if you just get covid it's like but what about what covid does to your body right like i can't i can't i can't do this right now it's been so it's so fucking i can't believe how stupid the world got covid broke so many people's brains covid broke so many people's fucking brains like people people got sucked into conspiracy nonsense within the time of like apparently it was just such a large world event that everybody was like looking for some reason to consider every part about it a conspiracy you know like there's some things where it's like okay yes i can understand why you would believe this part about it or this part about it but like the way that it's just so sucked into this like insane like right-wing conspiratorial culture like i just man there's it's frustrating it's frustrating and then someone's gonna look at me saying this and assume that i believe like x y and z and being like oh you're an npc you must believe this exactly and we'll say that's the part i agree about ever we'll assume your views on everything to do with anything if you say anything about anything this exactly it's like you don't know my beliefs right i mean you would if you watched my channel because i'm very public about my beliefs but yeah a lot of people misrepresent those america that doesn't know what it's trying to sell itself anymore trying to present a kind of ethical and moral face to the world while clearly being backed by commodity as you say the motivation behind these um ips and these franchise these franchise movies is no one's willing to take a risk you know matt daemon says matt daemon like that you know you'd never get a good will hunt in type movies no more because no one will back a 30 million like that they need to have ip behind them but why would i get into just before while we're still on huge i mean i was very glad that matt daemon actually talked about that that like that there was this sort of like middle ground between these massive like summer blockbusters and indie films there was this sort of middle ground that is becoming harder and harder to survive and thrive in it's like the destruction of the middle class well it's uh it's something that's been talked about in video though i think i think it's safe to say that the video game market is kind of rebounding in terms of a a healthy middle market between big triple a game and smaller say the double a yeah indy double a level stuff is really popular there's a lot of great stuff out there i haven't played bouldersgate three but larian right they're like not a huge studio right i don't think larian's a huge studio but they're not triple a um but it's just like um it's just like ghost ship and deprot galactic um it's there's tons of that indy double a gaming experience that people love because they can do something and focus on making something really excellent that people gravitate towards and find value in and my drink is finished but yeah i like that's one of the reasons why i am i'm so like i am really optimistic about the gaming you know like environment i'm very optimistic about gaming because it seems like it's so easy for everyone to pick up all of the you know the crumbly bits of where you know triple a level stuff is falling behind um whereas of course as you know adam has explained in the movie biz that's not quite as easy and simple how many people watched air because matt you know and talk about wait matt oh my god my brain matt was matt damon in air i don't know what i'm thinking of that i think you might have been exactly ben afleck at least yeah ben afleck was in it oh yeah matt damon was the lead sorry my brain was frazzled there it's air how many people saw air that was a cool movie but i don't know how many people saw it and that's definitely in that space um it seems like maybe streaming is the place where like those types of films can sort of end up having a place but even then i'm not i'm not sure i don't know it's uh but he put it pretty succinctly it didn't make any money how much money did tar cost 10 million what's the most expensive original ip that's been made in the past fucking like 10 years like it sucks i wish more original ideas got i don't know i'd be curious to know the answer to that actually yeah 25 million wow before we leave you too bad that shouldn't have that shouldn't have gotten that much money because it was i mean maybe after 30 years you can make it back because like it got a 4k blu ray i'm gonna be pimping it out and i'm gonna be like talking about it and dissecting it but i was afraid it's not gonna make that money back tarry's gonna for sure in mind drinker that we're still in a place where censorship is possible over time how do we marry together the idea i'm sure okay this is on russell brand's official channel let's ignore the fact that we don't even get enhanced bit rate 1080p but listen to how shit the audio quality is it's like it's like 96 kilobits per second on youtube before we leave youtube so do do better you've got the worst mic in mind drinker that we're so funny he's using the mic i'm using uh yeah well however it's going through the the output bit rate yeah his audio is shit what's that the sure sm7b something like that yeah i believe so it's gonna be on a star is kind of born there in chat on your chat true who are who's chat on screen in the uh if i could just say i'm gonna be infinitely more entertained by why i'm as his breakdown of tar than tar i i agree that's totally fine i would see here the thing when i when i talk about like oh there's all these other artists creating things like i'm not just saying like this i know that my favorite movies are largely inaccessible to the average audience member uh the types of things that i appreciate i wouldn't recommend to everybody it's fair yes but but there's a lot of things that i watch that might not be my favorite thing well you know it would be like in my top 20 or 30 of the year where i watch them like oh fuck everybody would love this shit you know like so by the way i have no like big criticism of tar i just found it boring i would actually probably defend it is very well made yeah i think tar was a really great movie but i did find it incredibly boring and long which happens and to be fair it just flew by for me flew by oh you're an opposite for me elvis flew by that movie flew by real fun that's a wacky movie that's a wacky movie but i liked it this is the question i thought he was getting this is a good question oh i love how he has to like caricature that with the quotes too that's worthy of caricature um i was gonna say have you heard but he means it sincerely though he means it sincerely and he's he's doing the quotes in a caricature way to kind of because the word audience where we're strong has been abused right like strong when we say when we say a strong female character or male character we're probably not referring to their physical strength in universe unfortunately a lot of people got that mixed up and like there's um the newest one that i've come across hero movies yeah but fuck it why not why can't they make them we didn't have to do that before it's not like anyone said like oh leah needs to be buff in star wars or that um any of the you know like black widow wasn't like like a she was also kind of like the not really that important of a character in terms of like what she was doing in the movie i don't know why you don't think so leo organa i mean she had her she had her own like fucking side quest and shit but like what side quest they weren't really like um i'm not a star wars buff clearly i know it's okay i know it's all right it's all right it's okay um because i was going to bring up is the uh quanta mania is my next video and behind the scenes shit like this is this character i think her name was gen torah she's just a like a spear wielding like tribal uh sort of badass character in in the quantum realm the whole thing is leading everybody and being awesome stuff but there's like barely any character you can actually draw from here and then the behind the scenes she's talking about how she played a um an empire affiliated character in uh mandalorian and of course uh she was like uh you know it's nice to play uh a strong female character that's on the good side and she's like strong does she just mean that she's strong and she kills people because that's basically all you get which is such a fucking shame and then with russell what can we do to fix this how do we get the strong female characters that aren't the strong female characters because they can be strong it's just like physically strong but you prefer to be written strong in movies right i do for my girls i want them to watch films and not always to be it's just guys and blokes and you know i want guys and blokes there to be diversity but how do you marry that what do you think is the concession that should be made to make oh this is a great question i can't believe you're asking him this movies more for one of a better word more diverse where do where do you stand on that mate like yeah interesting points you've made there because it's like when you talk about the stars that they're different eras like the the seventies was like deniro al Pacino dusted hoffman like the interesting character actors you know i don't know i don't know if like saying those names is different than saying like chris pratt you know like ryan gosseling i don't know if that's that different it's just because like we can look back at the seventies retrospectively and be like yes we know these names now because we're in it like is it really that different than just leaving off like i think uh if i'm not wrong drink is about to go into talking about what those characters represented not necessarily that they were uh able to sell films on their own that might be yeah i mean like even so like i would say ryan gosseling and walkie and phoenix and you know there's tons of great character actors today too because i find this part really interesting in terms of what does it tell you about the state of what people want to see in like leading characters and that um a lot of people make the point and i'm not sure where you stand on it but the lately we feel a little identity less in terms of trends or preferences for cinema like we're all over the place uh especially with the destruction of like the superhero dominance yeah we're in a transitionary period i don't necessarily think that's a bad thing though yeah i think that's fair big name actors of today like that's such a so weird the eighties was the big buff muscle man it was the time of like american confidence we're going to kick ass we're going to dominate we're going to do also we're going to get this austrian man to give us the american confidence yeah why not part of america that's part of being american yeah yeah you know i think it's like slightly more uh vulnerable heroes the 2000s was very much reflective of the war on terror so there was a lot of um you know uh military themed stuff there was a lot of thrillers there was a lot of secret agent things going on and then yeah you look at now there's nothing we just i literally just said there ain't no movie stars i don't know if he knows what question he was asked because i was very excited to hear him like so russell brand clearly asked like hey i want to see more representation in films you're calling out things in a way where it's like okay there's clearly some sort of agenda being pushed on people and movies are bad now because there's no good characters blah blah blah blah blah what if what if it's better that it's not just buff white men as stars in movies and i have two daughters and i want to see them represented in movies and i want them to grow up and know that they're represented and maybe it's not just white people he's went on a giant tirade of just listing what was popular in each decade without having answered the question let's see if he does because because he does right eventually drinker gets onto that question but uh i was gonna say i just have no idea what he was talking about well so this was prompted by russell talking about how adam sandler and characters like him represented that era and drink has gone through 70s 80s 90s to now because he was this is the thing he was genuinely interested by what russell said and he wanted to build on it that's all that happened okay like the country doesn't even know what it is now it's in a conflict of identity uh so i think i was yeah it's a self-evident point of like it doesn't even know what it wants to be anymore so that's that's kind of really sad to see because we always you know as a brat i always looked up to america as like the model of the world like okay i i thought that i was gonna watch this whole thing and not like come off too hard on on critical drinker like i'm pretty open to like other political perspectives and other like i don't believe in free will i believe that like both of these people all of you watching at home are just people that are products of your environment right like i don't i don't i don't have any like ill will towards anybody like you know like i'm pretty loosey-goosey easy going right you didn't answer the question this is the country that leads us the free world um but yeah when it comes to to marion what you talked about thank you god or like the um rather than just having straight white guys as like the movie stars how do we how do we include um people of different genders ethnicities all that stuff i guess what i would say hey we did it 20 30 40 years ago we just didn't make such a big deal out of it like we have oh man like okay i get it i get it like it when when what was it jennifer laurence who who said this shit we're like they're like i am the first female i'm glad you're aware of that quote because it was so cringy it was so dumb main character like if you want to respond to stupid shit like that yes you know bring up ripply ripply from the alien series like everybody brings up ripply i get it there are strong female characters there are female directors who have been making movies for a while there are you know female writers who have been writing movies for a while you know like there there has been representation of different genders different races there has been that technically right but it seems like a lot of people are taking issue with that being like a little bit more representative of the actual population in the slice of the pie right where like yes you can take examples from history and say yes this has happened there are good examples of this you know it's not like this hasn't happened before i completely agree whereas like the the argument towards like oh including a bit more representation is saying you know there's women women are actually the majority of society which i'm gonna i'm gonna have my like most fucking red pilled fucking sexist based take here and i'm gonna say like hey uh oh you can't complain about anything politically if you're the majority vote okay cancelled your shit together yeah you are empowered what i will say it sounds like the point you're making now in response is the okay sure we could have the Ripley's and Sarah Connor's vote don't you think we should have a hell of a lot more than just the selection people were referenced it's it's not even it's not even to suggest that i want there to be more but to try and explain why there are attempts being made by people in the industry to include more which seems to be you know depending depending on the reviewer depending on the person talking about movies a lot of criticism is not necessarily like oh the the representation was included and it was also a bad movie a lot of it is under the lens of the representation in of itself being attempted in the film is the bad part which is the impression i get from maybe not every critical drinker video but like it's it's uh well we'll hear him answer this question in this video and this is the question that he gets asked twice and his his takeaway from it at least what i remember and i listen to it like twice so i'm pretty sure i have a good memory of this is he phrases it in a way where he's essentially saying that it's a problem that needs not to be addressed and that uh because there has been good representation of women uh in the past and that uh nobody made a big deal out of it when it happened that therefore uh attempts to try and make women or insert minority here therefore attempts to make them more represented at all is uh like a useless and not correct thing to do or uh like a something that needs not to be fixed which you know the more i think about it like with him in that perspective it it it seems kind of incompatible with his other content because true uh you know the yeah because because the the way it's not his position how well but well i mean if it's not then i don't blame you at all but let's hear him let's hear him talk in the interview because that's what i'm basing his so so far um what i've gathered and we can roll it back but if you want rustle asked him what's the solution then if we're not going to be if we're going to be critical of all these strong all the buff ones that don't have characters what are we to do and drinker says we cracked this already we know what to do the formula is right over there and he's referring to the strong characters that we've had before that are female obviously there's a fucking laundry list now the impression i got them from you was that you were like yeah sure that's the formula but don't you think we should be getting more of them we don't have enough of them which i actually think is a fair thing to say in response but that that's not necessarily something drinker even disagrees with he's simply saying we don't need to solve the problem of better written female characters as some kind of new and innovative innovative idea we've got it already we know how to do it we've known how to do it forever it's embarrassing that we've managed to regress somehow and by the way i think you would agree with this we've regressed on male characters as well like we've regressed on character writing as a whole yeah in general in mainstream studio productions yeah but um i would like to um i would like to if possible uh save the majority of of this conversation for the second time that it's asked because yeah the critical drinker gets asked this exact same question closer to the end of the uh video because i i guess uh wrestle brand wasn't satisfied with his answer either and he he does add like an extra bit to to his answer that i i feel is more reflective of why i uh am interpreting his answer in that way um so yeah okay so i'm gonna give i'm gonna give one to i'm gonna give one to the mrs here okay like women are the majority vote so you can't complain about anything that you vote on right half serious but like come on i mean it's it's what i'm saying here is there's a difference between something existing in the past and having like clear examples of it versus the conversation of taking an issue with it because it's happening more often right let's see what he says i have to do now and that's the thing that annoys people that's the thing that turns people off when you make the identity of the main character the main actor the sole focus of everything people are just like well why are you making such big of this why why should i care about this they used to just do it okay here's an interesting perspective just like how he called you just said they used to and he's referring to how they used to write the characters instead of that the fact that they exist at all yeah yeah what if what if we were to say that although it is stupid if the identity of the main character or you know their inclusion in a film and you know like disney goes like this the first gay character or whatever like i'm i'm a superhero that's a woman and like this is why you should care about me what if we agree that that's stupid but we also say but we also say that that is essentially also something that has happened in the past with white men but you just haven't noticed it what what if we also what if we say that that's stupid but we also say that like there are movies that are like rid if you found any examples of like characters from the 80s the sort of celebrated just for being a white man or something like that i think drink would agree with you that's that's retarded ridiculously white and ridiculous but like is it is it fair to say that like the you know a lot of like mainstream films that people don't really often attribute to in that way or just like a normalized version of that like you know like what is you know what is james bond or like we were just talking about how you know art old was embodying this whole like american culture thing like he talked very heavily about like how stars and the media landscape was like supporting this type of identity and culture like is that not like kind of i mean american culture like obviously it spreads far further than any white man um and i would go as far as saying that james bond has an extensive character history that is part of why people don't like the new ones is that they're getting it wrong sort of thing it's not just about being a white man yeah like specific generations of james bond yeah but like very as a james bond enjoyer like i love the character and i don't associate james bond with like he's only good because he's a white man or that he's that's his characteristics you know yeah what i when i say okay i think it's important to recognize that in order to in this generation of films um and perhaps this will get better as time goes on as it gets more uh like i guess normalized but in this generation of films it's nearly impossible to include any kind of minority character in prominent ways without it feeling like it's being political um whereas like you look further back in time in the the landscapes of film like you could argue that it's just as political for there to have for a black person not to have even been allowed to be a main character essentially before like fucking like uh what was it night of the living dead was like a huge fucking controversy it was like a stepping stone of just like oh you just have like a black man character who is not a dubbing character because he's black he was just like a regular guy right like in in the same sense that some that a decision in that direction can be considered political i would argue that it's also political to not have that decision made that it is inherently political in the other direction that we just don't consider it to be that so uh obviously that this would be something you could theoretically discuss with them but i assume this is kind of the argument you would lay out that we can have the motivation to create art and then the art itself and of course the he would tell you or he believes fully that when your motivations are so like as they describe in a lot of these behind the scenes stuff like oh we can't wait to have the first female villain in star wars which is how they kept describing captain phasma doesn't have characteristics at all and in her interview she keeps talking about how amazing her character is and no one has any clue what it is and it's like it's such a shame because they thought first and foremost that she's a woman and that's good enough and we're going to promote her that way that's terrible if we had the equivalent where they said uh you know in the 60s 70s whatever but like we're going to have a whole cast of white men and then like don't you think you should have characters and then they're like nope they're white men and that's going to be that's going to be we're going to celebrate it as a big cast of that would be awful too but ultimately that is essentially what happened for a long period of so i was about to say the second half of that though it was considered controversial for like black people to the second half of that would be that the art itself could still be really strong so the equivalent for that could be that that film full of white men as they motivated in the like shady rooms where they produce it all turns out the film is amazing and it's irrelevant of the fact that they're white men it's all about the writing that's amazing and then in the same vein uh i think drinker concedes in this interview at some point there are films he may describe as woke how he defines it but also really strong and i think arcane was the example he gave uh where someone could have been motivated behind the scenes of arcane to be like we need a lesbian main character and we need several women main characters and that's what i care about and then someone else writes them do you do you think that it is um what what is your perspective on like categorizing that as woke because i don't typically purely just because there's like a lesbian character in it even if you're not saying that it's bad because it's woke like if critical drinkers argument paraphrasing but i'm pretty sure it's accurate he's saying it's good despite being woke i'd have to see that that's like at all like every time i come across anybody using that word i have to ask them what they mean by it i don't because like it's so fucking buzzwordy at this point i have no idea i i i get that but i feel like in the the context at which critical drinker has used it and correct me if i'm wrong but you know like for him something woke appearing in a movie is essentially like oh you put this in for a political agenda or you put this in for representation politically right um i'm wondering if we could ever reach a point where a lesbian character a character could just be in a show without it being perceived as woke because they exist in a show right that's a part of my criticism that makes a lot of sense and i don't know what he would say to that necessarily and he might say to you because like um we love a lot of media on like like i was going to say blind man would be another one right that's a lesbian lead is uh is that woke because you would automatically assume in this day and age that they would have pushed for that and then the writing comes after it if that's an assumption he has or he has proof of it either way i would call it cynical um because it may be true and you may be able to find proof of that being the case like behind arcane they say oh we knew we had to have women at the forefront we knew we had to have a gay woman at the forefront because that is what is important and then the writing came after that would be unfortunate and if that fits his definition then i guess that fits his definition and and do you feel where the despite comes in i guess would be that he's focused on trying to explain that that should not be your foundation for creating a story in the same vein that you shouldn't be like we have to create set pieces for explosions we have to create all these opportunities for white men to be on the screen you know i mean like any kind of agenda but he believes that that's the most prominent and arguably like damaging one in hollywood right now do you do you feel as though it's possible that uh a wide variety of movies especially historically maybe not as much today but that there are people and have been create people creating movies where it is important for them for the main character to be white but it's not seen as as much of a political statement and they might not even materialize those thoughts in their own consciousness because it's not seen as a subversion and it's already kind of seen as like oh this is just a thing that i can do right whereas like they never even wrestled with the idea of a character being a different gender or a different race they just want the character to be white and male not because of any sort of supremacist reasons but because they it's important to them that that's the type of experience that they're trying to reflect in their films right like i feel like that same thing does exist for people of varying genders races gender right uh you know gender identities um but it's the problem is like it's only necessarily seen as political if it's one that is against what is traditionally known as the norm right and i feel i feel like i i want to push back against people that are trying to um or at least jumping the gun or uh misattributing uh films that they shouldn't be as things that are trying to force like a political agenda when most people creating art you know if they're creating art that is uh are doing so because they want to express something right i don't know yeah well and as you know i feel like we've gotten a plethora in this day and age of evidence that they are using non-normalized race and gender i suppose to promote um their films in media and it's like gross and weird a lot of the time it'd be like you've got to see this because it's doing this and it has this so like a lot of the time with like marvel films or even disney films or whatever in the promotional material they'll be like this film has uh seven people of color in it and that's why you should see it it's just like what the fuck like what why aren't you yeah i i don't think that that's like a good reason to what i'm suggesting is that that's why it would be the identity matters to you i guess but that's why it would be on people's minds compared to the times of old where i don't think you'd find many interviews what they're saying like we've got them white men in there so you've got to see it like it's much more prominent i know exactly what you mean i think that there's a handful uh a non-zero a notable amount of films that do exist that don't do that marketing bullshit but still get incorrectly misattributed as being woke or political merely because of just the gender or race of a character or the prominence of the gender or race or i think that would make for a really good question for drinker is uh is it possible that arcane isn't good despite being woke it's just good it doesn't have to have anything to do with what but it would depend on his definition it's not even woke yeah exactly like obviously if rustle asks that we may have gotten an answer but it's a brief interview at best great and ridiculously male in a way where like it parades that as an identity but you haven't noticed it and you haven't criticized it what if we say that both of those things are stupid what if we say that both of those things are stupid without having to make a big deal of it when we talk about the great female characters in cinema we have characters like ellen rippley she was an alien from the seven it's funny that i it's funny i said rippley before he did because it's like it's the it's like one of the like there are so few that you know exactly which ones they're going to say and this is like part of this is part of the argument right like is like before he says anything you can say rippley right like you know like and it's not to say that i thought you said it was a good example it is but there's very few and so if it depends on it depends on how he's answering the question and we're going to get clarification more clarification for this the second time it's asked so in my perspective he's answering the question in a kind of way to say like oh yeah well this is an issue that doesn't need to be addressed because there's been rippley because there's been sarah connor because there's been trinity and all these examples that he lists from the past whereas i would argue against that saying like okay well the issue isn't that there hasn't been any strong female characters it's just people are trying to make that more representative and it's not necessarily a bad thing if people are if people creating art wish to portray more women in films that's not necessarily a bad thing it doesn't take away from there being men in you know films i guess like maybe like if you look at the total number of projects i guess the number of men in films go down but like it's not like you can't watch the same types of things that you're you're looking for if there are more women in in films right so we have a disagreement on what his intentions are in terms of how he's answering this question and that's why i guess we're going to have to wait for the second time because he he adds to it and he makes it a bit more to run the um the alternate would be that russell says how do we solve the writing good characters he references one of the greatest female characters of all time it's like we did this we cracked it all the way back in the 70s that would just be the simple i seriously think that's exactly what he's saying it's just the same formula the way she's written right all women characters take them seriously respect them have them be layered simple as that yeah yeah i i'm also kind of like anti-formula i don't think that that i don't think one would say the right like it's not like all we're gonna get is exactly what ripply is he means like the approach the discipline yeah i just i just think that at no like he doesn't well we'll wait until the second time he's he's answered the question because yeah well he's a bad character i love ripply she's she's logical she's like commanding and like confident and like like she's a great like what a fucking character i love ripply she's like something that i really love about the alien prejudice but the fact that like you know when people are having these conversations about like oh you know like maybe there should be some more women in movies and you're like ripply like it's the top of every reddit thread like it's it's a really basic bitch thing to say like i'm sorry like it's like the most obvious thing it's the most obvious thing and like that's why i said it is still completely valid a popular example was also just a completely valid answer the answers the question i don't think i buy into this whole like you can't name more than ripply it somehow diminishes the answer when it's true no no because he's he's like the it depends on what question you're answering which is why i said like well then it wouldn't be about ripply if you're responding to if you're responding to jennifer lauren saying i'm the first female hero or whatever like fuck that shit yeah obviously tell her about ripply and all these other people but if the question he's being asked is like hey i have two young daughters what sort of like how do you reconcile with your beliefs about um you know like wokeness and inclusion and hollywood what sort of things would they be able to watch and then you start listing movies from the 80s that are like almost exclusively horror science fiction that you know but so that doesn't really answer the question you genuinely believe right now and what are you saying i guess you genuinely believe right now the drinker believes himself he's been asked to name what characters can inspire women and he's like fucking ripply from the 70s there you go like well he's kind of do you not think at this point that it's already potentially possible that he's definitely not talking about that instead talking about writing discipline i this is this is why i would like to wait for a second uh time he's asked this question because we have a uh we have a disagreement on how we're interpreting what they're talking about because like it's everybody everybody said it you know like that's a part of the conversation you know that's before i was even born they got this right sexism is no more because ripply is existing yeah that's not even i don't know it's what that i have pretty nuanced takes on gender gender identity and you know like gender related issues i think that like each gender has their own struggles you know like there's no like all men are bad or all women are bad like you know we're just people most people are shit you know if you have a bad experience with you know if you have a bad experience with like the type of gender you're attracted to and you're not like socially involved with them all the time and your only interactions are your bad dates then you might think all men are bad or you might think all women are bad you know like turns out most people are just kind of shit i don't know about that you know it's not it's not exactly gendered it turns out most people are kind of shit you know hey man i mean i don't experience i don't know i don't i don't agree with that do you know most people oh my god there's shit surround yourself with good people surround yourself with people that you like surround yourself with people that get you people that understand you people that accept you people that don't judge you right surround yourself with those people don't don't think that like an entire gender is like bad you know i get it i get it or an entire race you know you've got Sarah Connor from the 80s again fantastic did i mention both of those before he did fantastic actually one of you in the comments mentioned Sarah Connor i don't know if i said that out loud it's like it's like the most obvious this is oh man like i'm trying do you think there's value as well even in your interpretation that he's appealing to people people recognize as opposed to if he started naming characters from things you don't even know about yeah yeah but it but it all depends on what question he's answering and how he's answering it but you're right now taking issue with choosing Ripley and Sarah specifically not that you're that he's got two examples i mean yeah he he's listed the the obvious ones yes yeah my suggestion is and the the issue the issue comes with how we've interpreted the question and the answer but we're we're not going to be able to hash it out until the second time i'm sorry not to be like a drama horse but we can we can listen to this whole thing and keep it all in like it's there i think there is some i think that a lot of criticism against the critical drinker is overblown i think that there's a lot of people that know that they want to hate him but can't articulate why and can't really articulate why they don't like him and i don't agree with it i think there are legitimate criticisms to make against him i don't think that he's like a bad person i don't think he's a piece of shit i think that he's a person just viewing media the way that he views media and and like you know whatever makes sense to him is going to make sense to him you know i don't think that it's coming from any sort of malicious perspective but i'm you know i'm gonna say why i disagree at the very least well character really interested yeah trinity from the matrix from the 90s like they got all this stuff right they just didn't feel they need to make that the sole focus of these characters they were interesting characters first and foremost whether they were female whether they were women or sorry whether they were black white whatever it didn't matter that the main focus was that they were a well written character that's the difference that's what we can't do now see isn't that it he's well he i mean he said their main focus was there were well written characters we can't do that now that's what we can't do now and russell brand is like asking him like but surely that clarifies the confusion there we'll wait for the second time we'll wait for the second time i'm sorry do you okay here's my question do you think that like part of the perception of them making that a big deal is to do with how people are reacting to it because i think from a marketing perspective i think that they were thinking like pretty much the exact same things in terms of representation in terms of like you know like mulan like they were they were trying to go for the asian market they're trying to go you know there's definitely stories where they created female characters and they were intention of the writers was to be hey let's make a story with female characters to try and you know make a movie for the female market and that's going to be our selling point that's going to be our advertising point right it's not like that didn't exist in the 90s or the 80s or whatever you you know your idealist version of cinema is it's that a lot of people didn't freak out about it as much right yeah but i think part of it goes to the quality of how those characters and those movies were written right well that's going to be drinkers point but we're waiting for the clarification i assume yeah and so you look at like this weird backlash culture and i think it's important not to mistake the amount of people criticizing it for the actual intent of the writers and the producers right like i think that that existed in the 80s in the 90s like etc like for sure there were people in hollywood and writers and directors that were trying to be representative of a culture they were trying to be woke or whatever you want to call it right like it's not like that didn't exist that like this is such a weird thing to say right it's just there's more people talking about it in a not just critical way but in a very narrowly critical way where people are essentially like parroting a lot of other talking points and people are essentially you know giving a lot of uh it's like a feedback loop is that the term i'm looking for like i think that that can cause people to believe that maybe it wasn't a thing that happened in the past but like it's all there right like if the movie moulin was like a thing that got released today everybody would be like oh so you're trying to make a movie with an asian female character and she's playing a man and it's trans or whatever like um i don't disagree that they would be people reacting that way in many ways but it's with keeping in mind obviously the new one came out people despised it and a lot of the videos were focused around how good it was no yeah but it could have been good there's nothing stopping it from being good necessarily like theoretically the moulin was released today independently of it being released what i'm saying i'm saying if moulin didn't exist i think that is i'm not saying that these people wouldn't also admit that moulin was a good movie from the 90s i just think that people perceive it differently because we have a warped perspective of like what intentions are whereas i'm saying the disney moulin film from the 90s is something that could very well have been just as political in its intentions just as like oh we're trying to have more representation we want to get this market uh we want to see this people represented in this way it very well could come from the exact same intentions as the filmmakers i think what blows it out of proportion and why it's such a huge issue right now is not necessarily that it's a thing that's happening but the fact that we have the internet and movie studios have really cringe marketing on the internet in a way like a lot of the times you don't see this shit in the trailers right even for these current movies like the the way that these these identities are paraded around is not even necessarily from like the primary marketing it's coming from like the twitter accounts it's coming from like the news articles right so this is this is like the whole clickbait culture is a very new thing and i think that that's part of why it seems like it's happening more in this way from the intentions of the filmmakers whereas i'm arguing this exact same thing could have been taking place and very well probably was but we just didn't have fucking clickbait articles and we didn't have twitter accounts and so the the the viral marketing aspect of it is mainly what to criticize and not necessarily the inclusion of characters in the film or the even the intentions of the writers as they include those characters in the film so with regard to the original anime film if it was to release today brand new no other context there would be plenty of people saying it is woke and it is an allegory for trans stuff they're trying to show blah blah blah blah but i actually think that it would be an easy win over for most of the culture to agree that Mulan is pretty damn good and it would be because of the character writing that's what people would argue and i guarantee you drinker would have argued that in that alternate timeline but it was really good i think i i think that most people even if like there can be conversations on you know whether or not a movie is trying to be woke or whether or not the marketing is trying to be woke i think that most of the outrage just comes from like the marketing and even like before the movie is released for a lot of films like you know there's plenty of plenty of films that one would incorrectly attribute or perceive as woke that just wind up being good movies and then like it's you know most people just don't give a shit so just seems like an overblown i would reassure you something that um there is cringe on every side in terms of a film comes out and everyone like runs wild with a particular interpretation blah blah blah but there's a lot of pushback within those spheres themselves like you know a lot of people thought arcane was absolute shit and drink would have been one of the people to push back on it you have the um dead space which we got a big old blast of they made a woman look so early and breasts were reduced in size and people went fucking nuts saying it wasn't hyperwoken they made a woman wet they reduced her breast size from the original to the remake oh they made a woman older yeah they what they did they had well they it's um we're in the age of like mo cap and stuff is becoming prominent so they had a character in the game be played by her voice actress uh tanya clark who was 51 um and in the original her character was uh seemingly younger than which character nicole nicole yeah nicole wow i never played the remake you should it's really fucking good play the remake it's really good highly recommend it and so you got that and this is it like is it is it like a that much worth playing if i've played the first one it's better than the first one i yeah i adore the first dead space the remake is but are there like more levels is it like each and more is one big interconnected ship now it's really fucking cool i mean of course there's just uh well the tram is hidden loading yeah i mean but yeah but like a lot more of it is interconnected than in the original game and of course there's just the vibe and atmosphere is uh improved pretty considerably by new technology it's got incredible lighting amazing like visual atmosphere is top design and uh there's a lot of cool additions to the story as well to improve it yes nicole gets a lot more material the fact that isaac can talk is really beneficial because we get to understand how he feels about the things that are going on and he gets to interact with the characters yeah it's gonna write these isaac in the remake it's it's uh whereas like resident evil four remake is a different game to the original uh and that's value in playing both i still think there's also value in playing both of the dead space games but if you only you only had one to play it would be the remake i would recommend and uh yeah and so the reason i bring it up of course is that's one of several examples including stuff like um what was the was did resident evil four remake it hit for woke as well uh yeah i think people yeah because they thought that ashley wasn't attractive enough yeah yeah some people thought that ashley wasn't attractive enough which is so they turned her into a mouse and so we've got that and thought it will ragnarok and then like i said okay some other stuff where uh drinkers come out and said like all of these are excellent and that there's no need for criticism of that regardless like ridiculous and so what i guess i'm trying to say is that these kinds of fights against the more insane sort of like jumping to conclusions i think happens in literally all of these different communities that are currently popular for uh seeing a film in a particular angle and by the way this applies to everyone and so like you know uh you don't need to be told this because i know you're you're aware of it from how people can speak about you or whatever but just try to avoid lumping him in with with any bigger group of maybe thinking something crazy about a particular piece of media yeah like lulon for example i think i make a lot of yeah i think i make a lot of clarifications or you know i throughout the stream i'm like trying actively not to even if you know it's not 100 it has more to do with the reaction right then i mean it was a thing that got remade today yeah yeah i know but it has more to do like in terms of like what you're trying to claim is the intent of the filmmakers it's not like that wasn't present in other films like you can argue you can argue with the films of the eighties seventies nineties or whatever any films that you love that were like how does he watch so many films that can if he's going to pee every year i don't know go for all the short ones i know when i go to the theater i do not like buy a soda bring a drink anything like that i'm like nope because i know i'm gonna have to get up in pee bro america you just gotta schedule it better right make sure you get one big old piss before you go to the theater i always do but still you know sometimes there's always one you know lined up there's always a pee ready to go second string uh pissaroonie well i mean if you worried that that's a case when you get to the cinema you just gotta go again right just in case to get the last little sure but like an hour an hour and a half later i might have to pee again because that's just you know that's how it works i mean yeah i guess some blood is some blood is a different some blood is a different i just i drink a lot of water i got i got a pee you know fair enough muscle you know like i'm muscle i'm gun police whatever like those are all equally politically and culturally and racially motivated in terms of like what the filmmakers decided was market what they decided people wanted to see right like you could make the same arguments of like oh you're trying to represent this for political reasons you can make those exact same arguments to the films that you love right you can make those exact same arguments there's gonna be um ever there's gonna be something behind every decision that's made for sure but of course the categories of uh how egregious those decisions might be is gonna be different for everybody um i you know like if someone or how much how much it's noticed right because i i think it's easier to notice something when it's not considered the norm or it's not considered familiar right it's more of it's inherently more of a political statement if it's going against the grain otherwise you're just doing what people are doing um sure but of course like the as we went over before it feels like that's just like absolutely and thoroughly plugged into the marketing now versus when it before where i just i didn't hear the equivalent of that for a lot of stuff growing up in the 90s yeah because we didn't have fucking clickbait in twitter they had marketing they knew what would they market films on it'd be like it'd be like movie stars it'd be the events themselves we'll get some fucking like microfiche newspaper slides or whatever let's go to the library and see if we can find some articles about like them being like oh the diverse cat you know like they were celebrating the lion king being like an african story you know they were celebrating that that portraying the culture of africa in the marketing before that came out like it was it existed it existed for sure i'm not going to say it's not existent it's just it wasn't twitter and it wasn't like we don't have like this weird like self-feeding uh outrage culture right like we just we don't have algorithms that are incentivizing us uh we we didn't in the 90s we didn't have algorithms that were incentivizing us into just saying the most like fucking provocative thing or engaging with content that actively makes us angry right so like a lot of a lot of marketing nowadays i feel is intentionally being provocative and intentionally being things that they think people will get mad at because people share it right i think that's the biggest difference in terms of like well but wouldn't that still then be indicative of a change of time and that's why people are reacting to it they're like if it's all self-filling yeah but that's less to do with the movies and more to do with just the technology and the type of marketing that we have right i mean the marketing's got to be considered alongside the studios that make the movies and so it's all a big package even if it's caused by our jump in technology and the interest in clickbait and exaggerations it's like well that would still all be a part of the culture that's worth criticizing from the point of view of several different people including drinker sure i i just think that you know i i i think that what we just discussed is a more uh detailed well because what you've talked about is they have incentives to do so but that's still choices they are making yeah yeah i just don't think that that should be confused with like necessarily the movies themselves or even the intent of the writers creating the film because a lot of films a lot of films especially in the 70s and 80s and 90s were kind of propaganda and that's not to say that they're bad movies right that's going to go over really badly with a lot of people because the word is very spicy but um it really that's going to be a semantics thing it just depends on how you define it and how it's used it's it's it's literal it's true i mean uh depending on the film i'd be inclined to completely agree but it's such a like i think that's going to come across really insane to a lot of people because they'd rather call it something like this way of storytelling as opposed to well some kind of you know some of the word because propaganda is too closely associated with like war and way the highest shit for a lot of people but i get what you're saying i mean we can pull up a definition but i don't mind if people think that that's a weird word to use because i i don't think it's untrue well like i said i'm pretty much in agreement i just think that semantically people are gonna get like what like a lot of these films work out you know have you noticed like the the trends of like what race the villains were have you noticed like when we had so to make people understand that you don't necessarily take issue with the presence of propaganda in film correct yeah it's just i i mean it's a it depends on the context but i mean it doesn't inherently make a film bad i would say all right there's been a lot of conflict in american history with russia a lot of the villains would be russians right like the holy mountain made like a pretty apt uh comparison metaphor uh about this where you know they were talking about like creating a comic book where uh they indoctrinated children into to consuming this comic book and they were like the government has decided that we want to wage war against peru and so we made the the main villain the peruvian monster like all of the films that a lot of that are from this generation of films that this guy loves and a lot of people that make these same sort of media criticisms criticisms left like a lot of them have a lot of political propaganda in it and a lot of like gender propaganda a lot of race propaganda a lot of like gender identity propaganda maybe we just didn't you know necessarily come to terms with what that was as it was happening but like a lot of it exists right um and maybe we're just more hyper aware of this conversation nowadays but that doesn't mean that it's not a thing that existed before and that this is some like new wave of like movies didn't used to be political like i i don't know if i agree with that you know i don't think he's saying movies didn't used to be political you'd be you would say it's a different these days that that's fair i uh that was more of a statement than that was more of a generalized statement to that crowd the meme of game i remember when games weren't political and has pictures of like bio shock metal guest solid and model warfare too is that what you're thinking of yeah i mean like there's a hyper like like the the conversation surrounding media it seems like there's a good chunk of people talking about media online that just that are under the impression that like things didn't used to be political and now they are or that things are inherently bad because there's anything political in it which is also just like silly right so i'm more speaking trying to argue against that mindset not necessarily saying that that is what critical drinker literally believes but yeah i could have clarified better yeah it offends you because it's in a sense hasn't got any off or carrying it crossed in the character like Ripley from alien or Sarah Connor from the terminator movie it's always Ripley and Sarah Connor like every single time every single time you talk about like female representation of movie it's always like we got Ripley and Sarah Connor i'm gonna say i will say i don't like that uh people are trying to almost rob people of the capacity to use those ones as examples because they're often cited which is something i noticed here's here's what i'll say about this i think that it kind of proves that there is like an issue and i guess you would say that a critical drinker agrees that this is that is this issue exists and you know i actually recently watched his thing was called like women in film that i don't remember what it was called but yeah he does he does agree with this like the fact that the go-to examples are just science fiction movies from the eighties and it's been so long since then like that kind of sucks i think that makes me feel like the people that want more women representation in movies like they i can understand where they're coming from when when the our best example if you saw is 40 50 years ago his video related to women in film he had a laundry list of all kinds of great examples i doubt he would have said if he's lamenting on the fact that people use them as examples because it seems like there should be more that are prominent in in the brain i would probably argue back to him it makes a hell of a lot of sense that those are prominent in the brain that celebrated as part of masterpiece films there's two of the greatest female characters of all time of course they're referenced why wouldn't it be referenced in the same vein by the way the fact that they're so old and that's our best examples i don't consistently by everybody that that reflects a problem but like if someone asked me like who's the greatest movie villain of all time my head straight away goes to veda and then it's like wow veda yeah but that's not everyone's answer that's one of the most common i probably argue that is the most common answer in the film history for people i don't know you really don't think so i don't think that the most common answer for greatest villain is vader who do you think that it would it would be in the reddit thread for sure could you think well yeah but that's the point so would ripley and sarah i no i but the reddit thread would include like 200 different answers for male villains and you know female main characters well i didn't even say male there's a male villains in general which is it's gonna be broader whatever right but the it's the same principle we draw from some of the most prominent and remembered ones it would be weird if i was to reference you that we draw from the most prominent the issue is that the most prominent is a very small laundry list compared to what you know if we're talking about male representation of characters in movies there's no point of even trying to list them because that's just like fucking most movies that are good right like the fucking i am db top 250 or whatever like just scroll down that or like whatever your metric for just judging a good film is it's just there right we don't it's not a challenge you don't have to come up with answers you don't have to try and make a list because like no one's even arguing about it right whereas when we talk about strong female characters it's it's not it's not a huge list or at least in terms of like the type of media that the average person consumes and what type of uh character would constitute as a strong female character for most people talking about films i think the how many do you think that one would have to list before you'd be like oh shit i guess there are a lot that's an interesting question because from my perspective when i'm talking about the the grand scheme of like every movie and like all the movies that i haven't seen or like you know when we talk about strong female characters in films i think what we're really talking about is like strong female characters in films that are accessible to the average person whereas like i'm sure you know movies from any country of any budget of like any level like if we're including literally everything then the answer is infinite and they're being made forever like the answer is infinite for anything right like so that's a difficult question i'm not sure how to answer that yeah and so all i'm saying is that in terms of in terms of movies that people are aware of in terms of movies that like you know i i mean i i almost feel cynical about this that the true answer this question could literally be that people just don't have the lists on their brain which is fine i mean the i don't know i i would you agree that there's less strong female characters than male characters yes media okay well then we agree okay not good characters but it's like it's always it's literally it's literally always those two examples which kind of proves the point right like i don't know it's not like it's not to say that every movie within that generation is like therefore bad because it didn't include female characters right it's just it's just an argument that like hey you know you know maybe maybe there could be more characters like Ripley and Sarah Connor you know like maybe yeah write them you know especially especially to people that really feel so emboldened by this sort of like america was great because we had muscle people in the 80s like in the same way that you might feel happy about yourself being represented in that way you know like there's other people that might i mean you did cash he went through each of the decades describing the general sort of outlook of different characters that were prominent in film like they weren't necessarily that he appeals to them as a person himself just that that was the the commonalities okay but i i do from the the videos that i have watched on his channel there does seem to be like a recurring theme of like nostalgia for those periods and those types of yeah he enjoys the hell of him but to be fair he also enjoys the hell out of Sarah Connor and Ripley and all the other women he's enjoyed in cinema whoever they may be yeah i'm not saying he doesn't enjoy them see themselves represented in a different way that you know they might enjoy it with uh say an example off the top of my head which i know will be go over well on these platforms captain marvel and the way that captain marvel was kind of presented as a hero it offends you i think because i'm as i've said before i'm a fan of your content that you don't get to see a vulnerable character evolve a vulnerable character learn lessons a character that is flawed and has to overcome obstacles in a sense this is the function of story that precedes the medium of cinema but we need to see that character in position a at the start to me it sounds like Russell's agreeing with him that that's what's missing in the modern female characters because captain marvel i don't know if you saw it but she's basically characterless yeah yeah i saw it for some reason uh i don't know why it's unable to achieve something but by you know they go through kofasis challenges whatever and at the other side they're able you think that this new ideology that's about presenting figures or characters in a particular way is unable to serve story and function story is that what you're saying jinker what's the fundamental thing like you said that gets you to identify with a character as you give a person that's somewhat likable give them an obstacle to overcome and have them struggle to do it they have them lots of things to get in their way like they fall down they pick themselves up they eventually overcome that is this the fundamental essence of what makes you like a character in a very specific type of movie that is very crab blazing yes i can't fight with them it's so easy it's they shouldn't even it is not it is not the rule for all films or characters need to be said i will say you're talking to the people right on the yeah but we would even concede that it really comes down to so many different cores that are really complicated in terms of like you wouldn't want to make any hard and fast rules definitively um because could a character work when they have no characteristics and someone might say like obviously known it's like hmm that sounds like an interesting challenge what would they look like yeah it's it's good to you know create your own limitations in terms of filmmaking and writing and seeing how you can work around that i would say that i think his recommendations and advice are pretty strong for broad as you've just said as well yes yeah but what they lack with these modern characters that they try to do is that they're not willing to take that step of have them fail and be vulnerable and have flaws and weaknesses i either because the writers don't know how to do it or because they've got this kind of prickly defensiveness when it comes to writing things like female and see um i'm gonna keep because i feel like these are all references to the point and he's talking about what we need to do and what they don't do with women these days not that we don't need women at all because we've got plenty of examples already i yeah well we'll wait until he's asked the question a second time i i'm not i'm not 100 like oh this couldn't possibly but be what he's saying i'm just i'm hung up on the phrasing of what he says at a certain point they don't want them to be perceived as weak and so the only alternative they have is well they just have to be great at everything and so they're they're brilliant everything right off the bat they have all the skills they need they don't need to learn everything they don't really have personalities because they don't have any like flaws or weaknesses and the arc basically becomes them being amazing and being up here and the rest of the world having to learn to accept how awesome they are and like eventually come up and accept them that there's no character out there it's just a straight line that's that what are you saying is not untrue it's simplistic but it's not untrue i think that i think that in general like a lot of these you know marvel of the day films are just terribly written and i do believe that you know if we were to look at human beings as statistics you will probably see a higher number of writers writing larger projects that are probably more scared you know to to write flawed female characters because of how they'd be perceived right i i get it that's not an untrue thing to say um but it is you know again the the takeaway as a whole is kind of like a very narrow view of filmmaking and cinema and just media diet in general where it's like you know it's not it's not like this is like it's not like you can't find movies with like good female characters in it or anything it's not like you can't find well-written movies it's it's just kind of like okay like if you're only watching marvel movies then yeah you know there's some there's some issues with it because it's a marvel movie but not necessarily because obviously he would argue the patent goes way further than marvel films but that at the same time he's seen plenty of marvel marvel is a generalization to yeah you want to mainstream studio films right oh shit hang on whoops sorry um no broken uh go away what was going to say was that yeah the uh that he's also praised some mainstream films for even the writing of their females like it would have happened he's just sort of doing broad statements of much more than that and people don't find that satisfying that's the problem that's why nobody watches these movies anymore that's why the box office turns just go down and down yeah because when we meet let's take the example of Sarah Connor we find her as a waitress live a drifting through life listlessly but down the line we see that this character is going to be a revolutionary figure that's sorry which character of Sarah Connor we find her as a waitress live a drifting through life listlessly it's also kind of a horror movie where like okay the two examples Sarah Connor and Ellen Ripley they're both sci-fi horror movies right where they might not even be female leads if people didn't have this weird caveman brain protectionist mentality of like gotta protect the babies and the women right like how many horror movies do you like the final girl is a trope I don't know that this has necessarily any weight on the discussion that they have in though I'm well I mean like my argument is that you know not only are uh strong female characters less represented but they're more uh they're more what's the word pigeonhole they're more uh what is they're they're trapped in certain tropes uh that uh are not necessarily so the trope you're referring to is the last scale right the they ended up in those positions and I'm not saying I'm not saying that alien and terminator are you know like oh it's slash for movies or anything like that well I'm saying that like I'm happy to say that they do qualify but the obviously they're so special they rose above they did some like what was the key that made alien aliens t2 t1 why are they so much more special because like obviously the the incredible filmmaking and the scripts so yeah they may have been put in place originally the female character has been the fact that they're like we're gonna have a girl at the end because that uh makes the audience feel the most vulnerable for the character if um if you're gonna have a burly guy or a or a regular woman against an alien creature of any kind or terminator whatever then who do you think has the better chance like I guess the guy does but ultimately I don't think it makes a huge amount of difference when it's an alien terminator but I understand the appeal to the uh the audience and therefore that's why they ended up as women is is part of what you're saying but the thing is like they were written so well that now they are blatantly used because they are as a great template for female characters yeah you could have a man in a position for any kind of reason like that as well right I'm not exactly exactly I'm just saying I'm not saying that the movies are worse because of it I'm not saying the characters are worse because of it I'm saying that it is kind of you know it's it's reflective of the greater point of like oh yeah there isn't that all that much in terms of representing uh strong female characters when it's all just like oh like kind of the sci-fi horror movies from the 80s it's very narrow um I feel like they've evolved past that though it's not I mean we have we have but no those characters like I don't think people see Ripley as oh yes the sci-fi horror law skill they see her as Ripley I certainly don't yeah I just see her as a well written character I mean I don't see her that way is what I meant to say okay because that's what I'm saying is that's why they like a beacon they they've evolved past whatever original reason that they ended up the way that they are yeah it's less it's less about what those characters are specifically and I'm just talking about the opportunities for uh like roles you know for for women to appear in films and get roles yeah I mean it seems to be like more narrow but um it could be considered pretty subversive that those two ended up being part of a big poll to see the stories in these films right at the time as in like aliens I think she managed to negotiate millions more yeah I'm not I'm not trying to dismiss the achievements of those movies and I'm not trying to dismiss those characters as being anything but good examples of uh strong female characters okay the word girl is in there because like to make people scared you got to have it a woman because they're more innocent because they're more defenseless right like that that's a part of the trip that's a part of like the gendered sort of stereotype right and so when both of the examples are like Ripley sci-fi horror right Sarah Connor sci-fi horror thank you for the raid red radius right like they're great characters but they're the exception to the role when it comes to the genre but they might not be females if it weren't like a horror sci-fi genre a horror genre yeah I don't think that's relevant okay specifically um you know when we're talking about characters like overcoming obstacles I agree that that helps you empathize with them especially in like a mainstream film you know like we're gonna go like watch a film like drive right the guy barely speaks a fucking word but you see him suffer a bit you understand what he wants you understand his goals you understand what he cares about and you understand what it means to him by the end of the film for him to achieve his goals those are important things if you're gonna make like a mainstream like goal oriented like a bc plot sort of thing that appeals to a lot of people um I agree with that but like I don't know if these I don't know if if Ripley and Sarah Connor are necessarily like the prime examples of writing female characters when they're both just you know sci-fi strong women characters that we're down on their luck mostly because there's like a thing trying to kill them like I have no clue what you're trying to say here yeah I'm what I if I phrase myself better my argument is there's other examples of female characters that we could do that don't have to adhere towards what they did with Sarah Connor and Ripley is that the the landscape of what is possible with writing a good female character is not necessarily a strong you know like a like leadership sort of like badass killing a sci-fi creature thing you know you don't think it's a little bit reductive it depends on what you think I'm saying I guess that the writing discipline behind the two of them should be celebrated to hell and back for hell of a lot more than just they turned what could have been seen as more of a timid female character into a warrior leader who's gonna be doing all kinds of it's not it's not a criticism against the writing of those films at all I'm just I'm saying that in the landscape of films between then and now there's so much more opportunity to create strong female characters that where you don't have to copy that to get that I'm saying that well you'll hear me say it soon I'm pretty sure like I talk about how you know a lot of uh women audience members you know relate to films that I don't necessarily relate to and the types of female characters that they want to see in a movie might be in something like Lady Bird or some shit right completely that's what I'm getting at the thing there's a lot of miscommunication because like what I'm trying to get at is the say the main character and um I'm trying to think of just any romantic comedy that's super chill and like pick whatever one you want versus the writing for Ripley I would say there's gonna be if it's a really good romantic comedy I would likely connect them significantly on the writing discipline they would likely be broad elements of how they've approached writing the characters that I would connect even though they're completely different and that's what we're supposed to take I believe from Ripley and Sarah not that women can be action heroes like no no no it's treating them very very seriously respecting their layers as characters having the consequences of the actions in their lives reflecting their experiences and values that sort of thing okay that's not an unfair thing to say but like most of their hardship was the fact that they're in a horror movie right like you write a character like Captain Marvel it's not like you know it's it's not like she's got like an alien or a terminator trying to get her the whole thing it's not like have you seen Captain Marvel yeah he hasn't have you you said you've seen it right yeah she's got a an alien race chasing her sorry what did I just say in the video you said it's not like Captain Marvel has like a robot or a monster chasing her um I forgot half the fucking movie it's okay it's literally just in my brain and out I hate I hate I assume the point you were making was the the nature of having a creature like that after you will facilitate like losses in some way and so the character will have to strive to overcome it and so that's like a natural part of the genre yeah it is possible to still flub that and fumble it in a movie yeah yeah well and I was gonna say like a superhero is a fucking perfect for that sort of thing right it's not even it's not really a sci-fi horror you know no no of course it's just that it is there's ample opportunity to provide her the same sort of growth options you'd even expect them to be there it's actually strange that there's not a lot of the superhero movie origin stories relate to like the old time down points right like strange getting his hands completely crippled stock getting his hot blown out yeah all that sort of stuff I know what you mean and I think again I'm just gonna say like Sarah Connor and Ripley are fucking great characters and it sucks that it's difficult to imagine something that can be at that level without like essentially copying what they're doing I think that that speaks to part of the problem is that what I'm thinking like you know like how do we make a character that's as iconic and as likable and as respectable yeah characters it's like you almost just inevitably kind of go back to what are I guess now potentially considered tropes or you know like how do you even do that it's it's part of the problem yeah because I think there's a double edge sort of bad too because a lot of writers take for example the writers of Captain Marvel might have said like oh that Ripley and Sarah fully inspired Captain Marvel and all they think about is like when she goes to attack the Queen and Aliens and when Sarah is like approaching whatever she is at the peak of her confidence they don't think about everything that's to do with those characters I was about to say it feels to me like part of the problem is that there's too much of a focus on how competent somebody is to the exclusion of their vulnerabilities or their weaknesses or their flaws as an individual but like the rough edges of characters can often be the most interesting thing about them she's mentally unstable like in her rise above those problems and succeed and prevail and reconnect with John like it's it's from you know that low to get to that high and it's the same with Ripley Ripley's got her own problems and her flaws and vulnerabilities but those are the things that help make them feel well rounded whereas like I don't know with someone like Captain Marvel what they were really thinking in terms of all right well what's what's what are her problems that she needs to deal with internally and I think what's in it for Captain Marvel basically realizing that she was awesome right from the start yeah yeah I want to I want to make it clear to anybody listen to this free he's not like meming that is that is what happens in the film she's very strong she's captured and then she has a conversation with the villain and in the middle of this conversation she realizes she's much stronger than she always thought she was that's that's her arc she understands that she's a god because her inclusion into the MCU wasn't even like organic they were trying to find a replacement for Iron Man right uh well basically I think that the plan initially was that she was begun going to become the new leader of the Avengers but now it's probably going to be Falcon or Doctor Strange um because people don't really care about Captain Marvel as a character and I mean I it is that a surprise she's not very interesting it's very unlikeable not interesting there's not many layers to her approach to any situation I guess the point would be that it's part of the reason why I don't like the strong female character like meme as a statement because it feels like it's missing the point it's just like we're trying to write people here yeah just trying to yeah just write good female character yeah like I don't need yeah they're good that would solve it it's just like I want characters I want people I can connect to yeah that's what everybody wants ultimately is people they can connect to and I mean yeah you know something I've been thinking about as well in this conversation is I want to be part of the reason why people often default to Ripley and Sarah Connor is because when you're thinking about characters in action movies or science fiction fantasy or anything like that that um it might be too focused on a genre that to some extent can skew more towards having male protagonists uh then you might find another genres as well and if that and if it's a matter of almost like trying to broaden our uh well yeah and that's the true progress that needs to be made is well written female characters we need more of them yeah yeah yeah and and then it's something you've mentioned as well as it sometimes you default to those ones because they're on the top of your mind they're good examples but if you sat down and thought about it for a while you could get a much more comprehensive list of female characters from action film science fiction and you know fantasy that you could uh put in a list like you know yeah I genuinely believe like drinker could write you a list of a hundred if he's given the time yeah I'm I'm sure the movies would start to get pretty obscure but uh maybe but I'm sure that it is possible I like you know Evelyn everything everywhere that's a good character right absolutely yeah and he would he obviously did a very positive review of that and he would appraise the hell out of her as a character and her daughter good character like captain marvel it's not like you know it's it's not like she's got like an alien or a terminator trying to get her the whole it's not like it's a fucking horror movie right like these are entirely different genres so I'm not saying I'm not saying that captain marvel was well written I'm not saying that captain marvel like it wasn't it was not but I'm sure there's examples of marvel movies that had male characters that did not have as much struggle as like captain marvel or whatever you know unfortunately yeah this is uh in the marvel in the marvel movies this is not true like okay all of the male characters have things that they have to struggle so yeah I don't think yeah yeah yeah that was that was just like a you know throwing it out to the audience and hoping they'd give me something and then nobody did anything and it was okay well I don't watch those fucking movies Iron Man obviously in several instances uh has obstacles to overcome both external and internal Bruce obviously he's got uh he's got his internal struggles that he has to deal with Thor's arc in the original movie was that he's too vain and egotistical and that he needs to become more humble and in doing so he becomes more of a hero when he's stripped of his god powers I'll trust I'll trust all of you on this one I just fucking yeah I'm not watching all this well I mean did you think Iron Man was good uh it wasn't bad okay this is gonna be a compliment as we'll get I think we don't take it maybe maybe I'm full of shit because I've never watched every marvel movie but like I'm willing to bet that there's some marvel movie that exists where there's a male character that also didn't really go through much struggle or suffering no before they were expected to be here um I just don't talk about that the bright oh I love maybe maybe when I said marvel I meant student big studio movie I mean at that point this gotta be somewhat yeah yes but in terms of MCU movies nah that was years ago I don't know what I mean the bright is a great great example of like a you know strong female character but it's also a dude movie you know it's also a dude movie like and as a you know biological male person with a penis whatever like I gotta accept that a lot of things that I love you know I love a lot of dude movies I love some girl movies too again I would appeal not to the nature of like the action or whatever would qualify as a dude movie just did the discipline behind the writing again for the bride would be another one that's respectable mm-hmm no I'm yeah my point was there was not to discredit those types of films uh but to justify why there's people in the industry trying to create films that are more uh broad in terms of what their goals are sorry not broad but more uh varied it's to explain why there's a push for you know girl movies and shit um sure I mean I'd like to believe that a great film like doesn't necessarily have to appeal to male or female in and of itself but I mean I understand and I've heard plenty of arguments that relate to it in terms of what men and women I don't know typically prefer to see in their stories I'm not gonna say that's not true I guess it's gotta be but I like to think that some of the greatest movies of all time like can transcend that and that's what we should be maybe striving toward not necessarily have to achieve every time because everybody's expanding their horizons as viewers right that people don't go oh well that's not a genre that I'm interested in so I won't watch that and then potentially mess out on a story that really rip you I feel like there's a lot of films that I would naturally be like nah but that could be my favorite film of all time yeah yeah and you like it um and I was gonna say as well when I said earlier we need more really well written female characters I mean all characters I mean we need more well written male characters we need more well written all characters it's it's something that we desperately need more of yeah I need more well written horse characters and I will not well we can't always get what we want I guess making videos I will that could be your first film the horse representation in media uh you know a lot of things I feel like there's plenty of horses in the media name five Barbie had good horse rep there were horses in Oppenheimer uh there's there's Roach Roach from the witcher uh oh Maximus from Tangled Bojack Horseman yeah there's Bojack Horseman exactly spirit and rain from yeah whatever the ones in that what that DreamWorks one the one with the horses there's that too what about Buck from Home on the Range is I feel like we're coming here's the thing I feel like we're coming I feel like we're coming up with horse answers much more quickly and easily than if we were to say strong female characters the horse from uh from I feel I feel like that's what I'm talking about the true imbalance I feel like we were like BAM BAM BAM all these great horse characters to be fair we're about to run out though like we've just named all the most famous horses we've had a lot of uh we've had a lot of recent video games that emphasize your noble steed that was with you Red Dead Redemption 2 and Ghosts of Sushi yeah yeah why that's to be fair these are not characters necessarily okay these are horses a lot of them are characters I said necessarily no Tulio was the guy then they have Miguel and Tulio Miguel and Tulio oh fuck what was the horse's name I can't he was a noble steed now of course don't he is part of the donkeys that equine donkeys he f's into a horse in the second movie temporarily you don't need to try and true yeah he's stallion baby and the definition right because donkey is a part of the the uh the what's the name it's equines right or equine yeah yeah so yeah yeah it's good that we clarify a little body from uh from uh from Madagascar and aggro from Shadow the Colossus man I'm actually kind of impressed how many both characters we can name it it's so easy well hey if you do you want to do we could do the good female characters if you want dude you know you know what I you know what I really want to do what do you want to do I want to create a busy video essay on horses and media just do rank them yeah tier list do it it's a very serious like chill because if you soundtrack if you tell chat start naming all of the great female characters you think exist in movies and tv like you'll get shit tons of examples you know like record video games as well in the mix we've got a lot of answers the thing is is if you ask a bunch of different people yeah you will get more than just Ripley and Sarah Connor for sure I think that if Russell said drinker you fucking idiot name more than those two he would we are like 10 horses without even looking at chat I we can do 10 female characters without looking at chat okay I'm sure you can all right blindfolded I'm looking to see if there's any like all right all we are I think Ripley they're gonna show up in that list yeah okay I'll I'll go sack and Sarah Codd we actually do we're naming some female characters I don't know if we do it if it beeps or for real uh Aowyn how to be Lord of the Rings oh yeah she is I mean I'm just reading people's and there's a there is a diverse sort of don't look at chat it's cheating no I'm not I'm well then I'm not participating because all right fine back to why mess wait is it yeah yeah Elvin what is her name again what from everything everywhere what's her name again oh Evelyn Evelyn Evelyn Jesus elephant consonants mixed up all right wait is it we did this awkwardly so I guess I'm next uh Marion from Indiana Jones oh yeah that's right yeah Marion Ravenwood uh so is it me now mm-hmm all right let's go with uh who's Sandra Bullock from A Time to Kill oh I don't know if I can her name was I didn't catch that but yeah she was pretty I forget her name from to be fair I've forgotten all the names the characters in that except Carl Lee because they said call Lee 10,000 because they said I'm 712 times Jake I was uh Matthew McConaughey are we back to back to why miss yeah well it depends on how I define it because I you know when I'm I'm stuck in this it's it's again part of like this weird issue where I'm stuck in this mindset of like okay what is a strong female character and then I think like I don't know like should I be listing like Emily Blunt from fucking edge of tomorrow like but the the the psychological association with the word strong keeps leading me down this path of like action and science fiction that I'm not sure I really want to go and then it's like okay well I haven't seen fucking like Amelie in a while like I gotta remember everything there is about that character would that fit as a strong female character I don't know like I can name a bunch of female main characters but then it's like how do we define that at that point as long as they are very well written right because like Princess Fiona from Shrek well she's main character but not the lead right she's one of the co-leads I'd be like an example yeah I don't know like she's not she's strong in the sense that she has her own agency and she's Wally she's the strongest character in the film was unclear sounds like why this wouldn't count those as very well written female characters when we when we talk about if we if we talk about the list of like strongest male characters like a lot of the examples that we're going to be coming up with are gonna be like fucking transformative character pieces and shit right of like wow what an interesting strong character and I feel like a lot of times when we're talking about strong female characters like if we're gonna list like Fiona like I think at one point critical drinker lists Trinity like I don't know if I they you know they almost seem like they're kind of just in the story for a checklist for the main character and sure they have their own agency they're not necessarily like damsel in distress but I don't know if they're really like that fleshed out they have personality she's supposed to submit that like I'm not sure absolutely like absolutely she's got her own concurrent story running she does but I just it seems like so far off what we would consider to be like a strong male character in a lead it seems like so incomparable okay but what if someone named Indiana Jones as part of this election it's not like that's going to be considered one of the greatest sort of subversions and layered approaches to a great character journey ever it's more so he's an incredibly entertaining representative of a fantastic trilogy that everyone really loves like and I think that's a perfectly valid choice for one of the greatest characters ever of cinema because it's just he's tied so inherently to entertainment he's so consistently written and he's so entertaining culture yeah so in the same vein if someone was to pick let's say I don't know you mentioned the bride right could someone not say like the bride love the bride okay if she qualifies fair enough but like I it does seem like we maybe draw the line in different places I'm not sure yeah it's it's it's it's an interesting thing to think about because like you know I don't I don't have this issue thinking about strong male characters where I'm trying to like figure out how to selectively define it like what is even you know like what makes a character strong it almost seems like it's less of an issue well I guess maybe that could be from my perception maybe that's my issue I don't know but like I think I think there's a problem of like it's thinking about let's get broader with the word strong it doesn't necessarily mean physically right emotionally in some in some other realm of their of their life they're really competent you know what you know it fucking sucks is like there's a lot of movies that I really love where I can I can say like oh that's a strong female character and I have difficulty to remember they're remembering their names even you know like I guess it's an interesting one for me because in my brain I find it really easy to in particular remember like characters from animated films and video games because I can very strongly associate them with that character and that design rather than an actress playing them but even then when it comes to film yeah that's what I'm finding that yeah like what was fucking viola davis's character in widows like yeah the I would have the same problem there's plenty of characters I consider amazing that I've forgotten their names which is unfortunate but it happens no I I I think I think that there's some truth in everything that we're all saying about this and that the answer is not a black and white based on just the fact that how readily chat was able to provide an assortment of characters from film television shows video games books and everything is that I think the people's faults are the notion that you can't list a bunch of like well written you know I guess strong female characters we want to use that categorization but like you sit down and think about it's like there's a lot like it's frustrating you know narrative that gets presented of like ah yes we invented female characters in like action movies yeah it's just bullshit like you can just go back through like for decades and decades and decades and you have a list of characters that you can cite why do I not know the names of like most of these female characters unless their names in the title like jackie brown obviously right that's in the title right but like you know I don't remember Francis McDormand's character from Fargo I'm looking at the things in the chat now okay oh yeah the name of the girl in Pan's labyrinth like you I have this problem with men in a lot of movies as well because like I don't accept well unless they're super iconic right like no no country world men isn't called Anton but you know you remember his name oh yeah Anton sugar it's iconic exactly yeah but I'd say that like Sarah and Ripley are practically inseparable from the franchises they're attached to as well this does happen for women too it's just that equally because we've agreed I assume that the vast majority of great characters it's much more skewed to male than female I'm totally fine with conceding that but it doesn't change the fact that there are shit tons of women in there yeah I agree Fred we're not all looking for the same thing I love Kill Bill I love Kill Bill so fucking much I think that the bride is a great character um yeah some people are looking for a fucking I don't know ladybird yeah it's not my thing but you know some people were like really looking for that I don't know it's not like it's not like a poorly written character because it's for girls you know what Evie from the mummy he was oh that's a good female character Evelyn Evelyn yeah so you got Rick O'Connell and Evelyn I guess O'Connell by the time you hit the leo ones Tom cruises the mummy what not yes the best of the the best of them it was so good Tom cruises the mummy the finest he was the best nobody at all the beginning of the dark universe what a great universe that proved to be nobody knows the names of any character in those movies did anybody watch the trailer for that movie where yes it accidentally got uploaded without oh that was so good that was so good that was so good that was so weird they get sucked out of the plane stop bullying the poor multi-million dollar franchise movie we've all done the kind of highlights that when you remove music from a scene it's fascinating to see how how few sound effects there may actually be in a scene it's it no it's not only fascinating to see how like about the layers that go into it but it's also fascinating just how much of movies rely on soundtrack and when you strip that away I'm very critical of that in the media that I watch is just like how much are you relying on the the score right now you know like it happens all the fucking time and people don't notice it it's an interesting topic because something that I've uh some of the I felt is now this could be a bias of mine but I really like video game music I like it a lot and I feel like part of the reason why I like it so much and why I can remember so many melodies is because if it's going to be playing over and over and over and over and over again you got to make sure that it's catchy interesting unique that it won't sort of tire on you right like if you listen to music from like super mario brothers you need to hear it over and over and over again and I wonder if like there's sort of the mentality that goes into composing for you know video game soundtracks compared to film soundtracks where there's different sort of a different role that the music may or may not be playing you know in a in a particular film that was a tangent that led to a dead end let's just keep going all right different people like different things yeah I don't know where I was going with that there was a little bit of a ramble but down the line we see that this character is going to be a revolutionary figure that's met the challenge of knowing that she's carrying perhaps the most sort of significant thing that a character could carry like that you know the essence or a symbol for the future hey listen we're going to come off of youtube now and here are the reasons you rumble rumble we're going to talk about freedom why is this movie causing so much controversy as it appears to be beaten in the okay do I do I dare um I was going to say by the way you said you were going to join us for four hours we're hitting five soon so I want to make sure you feel that you were free that was an approximate yeah I might have to like well that's what I'm saying I want you to feel like you're free to leave whenever you want of course appreciate all the time you're given today this is a lot of clarification but I'm happy to continue if you are yep or continue this on rumble oh the link is just to your channel I can't even like give me the actual interview how long ago was this July 14th all right we're going July 14th can I watch rumble videos on twitch it's as long as they're not banned streamers yeah no English hey listen we're going to come off of youtube now and here are the reasons you should join us on rumble we're going to talk about sound of freedom I I host some of my content on rumble and I don't get paid shit their their fucking ad split is so bad like I'm looking for a good reason to like even pimp out rumble at all by the way I started uploading my shit on rumble way before it was like anti-vaxx conservative shit it was just an alternative to youtube people were uploading cat videos and I was like yeah I'll do that and now I'm kind of stuck with it why is this movie causing so much controversy as it appears to be beaten in Deanna Jones in the Fox office what does it tell us about films oh my god they're talking about sound of freedom I'm so hyped what does it tell us about new funding models what does it tell us about the appetite of us this conversation is an hour long when am I going to bed what the fuck the audiences I'm also going to start referring to the critical drinker by his actual human name and I'm gonna ask you to remove it. This gets difficult to fully understand hopefully everyone He sounds like XQC. He does In his gaze more like in his lesbians I All right, this this is going pretty fast just so are we all are we all good with how fast this is going right now? We can we can do one point two five if it's one point We might want to slow it down a bit because I I'm having a bit of difficulty tracking here Sure, you can put it on one if you need to but this this this point this point that is being made right now Is something that I have things to say about so all right, so let me you might want to rewind it like 10 seconds even You're saying that what a movie is about is Something that you should have no qualms about supporting that merely the subject matter is something that you should support That's insane. That's insane A movie is about child sex trafficking Therefore you should have no qualms about supporting it because what it's about not about the filmmaking You person talking about films I think he would concede that just because the film is about one thing that doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna nail it But obviously he feels it does Like what he feels what no, I know but like the the even bringing up the like oh you should have no qualms about supporting it like That that's that's just that that's like the talking point right now That that seems so inorganic and I I'm not trying to say that he's doing that consciously Like many people subconsciously pick up arguments and talking points from other people and the types of media that you're exposed to but right now like that's that's the like The the conservative media pundits talking about Sound of freedom are all essentially just parroting like oh, why would you have an issue with this movie because it's about this you That's such a for a guy that that creates this entire persona and this entire Like objective of the channel not you know the entire objective of the channel But much of the channel being like okay You know the politics in a movie shouldn't supersede its quality if that's like a generous and fair way to determine What he often says and then saying like oh, yeah, you should have no qualms about supporting this movie because of what it's about I'm sorry. That's kind of fucking cringe like you know when the Lorax fucking came I just watched that movie recently it was dog shit like I feel the exact same way about him saying that towards this Sound of freedom movie as I would to anyone saying you have to watch the Lorax or Or you're not pro environmental like it's about the environment We should have no qualms about supporting this movie because of what it's about Right like that has nothing to do with the filmmaking and even if he enjoyed it because of the filmmaking He made a video on it. I didn't get to watch the whole thing because very shortly into the video He started summarizing the plot and I didn't want it spoiled Uh, so I wasn't able to finish it um Even it even if he does, you know think that it's held up on its own merits about uh the acting the writing's cinematography whatever The fact the fact that he threw that into the conversation and that was the first thing he said is really I I don't know it's it's indicative of like the types of the Things that he consumes and I think that it You know if he took a step back then maybe he might not say that um I I I don't know how that's like defensible when when the entire uh Perspective of the channel is like the art should be a focus over the politics for for you to then say Watch this or you shouldn't have any problems supporting this movie and then only list because it's about this like that's irrelevant to the movie uh my understanding Of uh my understanding of what he said was uh supporting the message not supporting the movie and going to see it Hmm Let's rewind rewind 10 seconds 10 20 seconds if we want No qualms about that's a that's a very charitable interpretation. I'm not sure that's a You're saying that what A movie he said he starts the sentence saying a movie and then at the end he said that well, that's something You should have no qualms about supporting it's okay Like if if this was his like flub or fuck up and he didn't mean to say that or maybe like He might think about this later and be like, yeah, that was kind of dumb. I don't know But it just seems to be like Like that I I really don't This this is one of the biggest issues I have with like the whole interview Is is that moment because it just everything else he was saying seems to be contradictory towards that Yeah, well, I was gonna say as someone who knows him I wouldn't buy that he would say If a movie has a message you agree with therefore you should support the movie Like I don't think he would ever agree with that as a sentiment. I think he is getting he didn't say those exact words But he he essentially He didn't say the exact words in the other way I he he repeated the the common perspective being shown in other conservative media, which is Why would you have an issue against him? Why are you trying to not watch? Why would you make fun of a movie when it's about why actually have no idea what he claims his politics are? I genuinely don't know. I yeah, I don't I don't know if he's conservative or if he consumes conservative media But it's just I I don't know where that would come from unless you've seen Other people say that exact same sort of thing and or unless you you think that wrestle brand Is expecting or wanting you to say that on his program and again, I mean, you're aware of it, right? It's not necessarily conscious Well, you're aware of it, right of that being a thing that's being talked about Yeah, I wouldn't say it because it because it like it's not a criticism of like Oh, this is the types of things he's saying the types of things he's repeating, you know Um, is it just it seems it seems like something that's being said without actually Critically thinking but you know how you're like as soon as you your um your assessment is at least somewhat Uh influenced by surrounding matter, right? Yes, so is his but He's saying this in relation to the fact that the film is getting in so much trouble when he's seen it and believes It shouldn't get in any trouble at all Meanwhile, a good connection to this would be a film that claims to be very much against Of a particular subject. I'm gonna try and mean as fucking away from it as possible But cuties is a film that someone could say how could you not support it considering what it's about But he would obviously if he had watched it been like I can fully understand why the fuck people wouldn't support this Even if it is about what it's about Meanwhile, this film he's genuinely baffled that this film has gotten to the point that it is in terms of everyone hating it When it's like is I think it's him she won't head and someone else's reviews I've seen I haven't seen the film yet, but apparently there's very little in it That is like incendiary a lot of it is the plot of a man trying to rescue children from Child trafficking boring fucking movie. Okay. It looks like in any case That's where he's coming at it from he's baffled that people would want to shittle over it because obviously that We know in the matter there's a lot of other things. It's a culture war film. It's barely get it barely gets to be considered a film I I respect that interpretation, but what he the the words that he spoke in this interview Are you know, this film is about that I and therefore I don't see why anybody should have any qualms about supporting it, right? If he if he meant something else and he just phrased himself improperly then so be it I'm reacting. Well at the very least he would say no, no, no, no, that's not what I meant I didn't mean you should support it no matter what because it has a message I will if he wants to say that's not what he meant. I will take him at his word if he wants to Correct that but like I just I Yeah, I I I get bad vibes from From that justification You know, I I do not agree with that A movie is about is something that you should have no qualms about supporting that merely the subject matter Is something that you should support That's insane. That's insane A movie is about child sex trafficking Therefore you should have no qualms about supporting it because what it's about not about the filmmaking You person talking about films The fact that some people in mainstream media are against this Uh, wow, it really makes me question what their values are. I do not understand it at all Specifically he's talking about What their values are like I I already know he's talking about people who haven't seen it They they're talking about the film uh in a meta sense. None of them are talking about the actual films events or the filmmaking What that's that even if you go with my Interpretation of what he said then that lends itself to that as well Like I already know what what he's talking about is the people who are Shitting all over the film pushing it down without having seen it They don't they don't talk about like the events the film itself or the filmmaking They talk about the film as a whole is something you should stay the fuck away from Yeah, and he's he's saying that that that he's questioning their morals because of what the subject matter of the film is He's questioning the morals of people who don't want to see the movie or who don't like the movie I don't blame it at all for finding that strange But the thing that uh, obviously, I don't know if they're gonna Russell's already mentioned it right that the connection people make is something to do with qanon One of the actors slash produces Something like that Yeah So that's like the matter of that film It depends on what I guess I guess what you're exposed to because I haven't read every single article of people saying like Don't watch this movie or whatever that whatever they're actually saying it seems like it's probably overblown I think that there's a lot of people clowning on this movie and talking about its success I think that there's a lot of people that are mentioning that you know Some of the filmmakers are related to you know, at least qanon sympathizing sort of things Because it's fucking the internet media and of course articles are going to mention that because it's You know Jim cavizel, right? Jesus himself. I'm not surprised that Jesus himself Yeah, exactly like I'm not I'm not surprised that like articles are going to mention that or dunk on it But I'm not I'm not convinced that like I I think that it's a very Dishonest framing to Look at You know the amount of people that are making fun of it not watching it or even articles saying like oh This is dumb. Don't watch it and it might be related to qanon or whatever I think that it's that it's dishonest to take that and then be like Oh, I'm I'm concerned about your morality now because this movie is about child sex trafficking like that's What that's what he's saying in this interview if that's not what he meant then we'll have to Determine that later. I guess but That's what he's saying here and that's I take a I take issue with that I like I said would seriously doubt that he wouldn't let you know if you were to ask him But it not at all doesn't mean that he's and I think he's specifically talking about the people Who are condemning it without seeing it? but Like like for the for reasons that relate to Stuff that has nothing to do with the film. So even if Uh, he would find it bizarre to stay away from it for reasons that have nothing to do with the film necessarily But maybe not. I don't actually know what his perspective is on it entirely I'm just like okay, so we're in this conversation right now in this discord chat, right? The conversation is about my reaction to What he's saying, right? But Like and I feel like especially in this sense right here like particularly here Like I'm coming away with like a pretty literal interpretation of the words that he's saying um, and your Disagreements or your charitability in terms of like what he might be saying You're adding these other things of like oh, he's talking about those other people and all this stuff that he didn't say And so it's like well at the very least if let's say I misinterpreted him. I don't think it's Unreasonable for me to have walked away with the perspective that I did because I'm basing it on what he said not like Not these extra things that I didn't get mentioned in the conversation, right? Yeah, I get why you said that but I'm also basing my interpretation off of literally what he said I thought russell introduced it as a lot of mainstream media outlets are Shitting on the film. Why is this happening? And yeah, and then he and then he says this is a movie Uh, and then then drinker says this is a movie about child sex trafficking I don't see why anyone would have any qualms with supporting it based on that and I question the morals of the people that are you know Either shitting on it or trying to get people not to see it and it's it's a very emotionally based argument of just saying like Oh, this is about a series like the fucking marketing for this movie. Did you know that at the end of the movie? There's like they have this little countdown Timer to a qr code that essentially they they go like hey We need to stop child sex trafficking Do the qr code you can buy more tickets to the movie. It's not to a charity It's not it's not to like any kind of organization where anybody would actually be helping anything It's literally to buy more tickets for the movie and they're like and you can buy tickets for people who can't attend too So like there are theaters that that are selling out that have like empty seats Of just nobody in them because people are just like buying it thinking that they're saving kids The entire marketing of this movie is essentially like send this to 10 people or your mom will die It's a fucking like i'm gonna watch it. Don't worry and i've got close friends that have seen it in theaters and like ever, you know But it regardless of what the quality of the movie is it could be the best acted best directed fucking thing in the world It's just very The the conversation surrounding it. It's not just oh a movie existed and then all of a sudden these journalists that are trying to Make people not realize that child sex trafficking is a thing like oh We're trying to shine a light on this issue because not enough people know that child sex trafficking is bad or Not enough people they they don't want you to know that Children are being sex trafficked and that you can stop it by buying more tickets to this movie Like the whole thing surrounding this thing just stinks the high heaven Honestly like to the point where it's not even about the movie anymore and as critical drinker is being interviewed here The conversation is not even about the movie. It's about well It's about this and I question the moral of people's people Arguing against the movie because this is what it's about. I just I take a big issue with that I can't wait to see the fucking movie. I would have watched it before today for this conversation But I couldn't find a torrent. There was a torrent that turned out to be the wrong movie Okay, uh, and I couldn't I couldn't find anything other than a camera Like I'm fucking hype to watch it But I'm I'm I'm not trapping myself in a theater for this shit. I'm doing a watch along for it So yeah, I I've got no context on a lot of everything. I don't even I barely have context on what people have been saying about the movie surrounding it so I can't do much for this one Most the overwhelming majority of the people promoting this film Don't say anything about the movie and just talk about how it's an important movie to see Because that's what the movie literally tells you And it's it's like a fuck. It's it's so weird. I'm not saying that critical drinker Does that I'm positive that he talks about what he liked in the film in his video I just I couldn't finish the video because he started summarizing the plot and I don't want to watch I don't want to spoil the movie. So You're you're parroting the shit. You're just parroting what other right wing people are saying This is this is or he believes it himself Well, I mean if he does if he genuinely does believe what he said that it's still contradictory to like his whole channel Right, so I'm I'm giving him an out by saying that he's parroting what other people are saying Like that's that's me giving him an out Like I said, I think if you would speak with him, he would never say You should see films and support them based on whatever message they have that agrees with you He would he would want to appeal to the filmmaking of the execution Which I believe he would with sound of freedom. He'd say it's about the execution of that message Such that's why it would be contradictory to everything else that yeah That would be why and pc. Shit. Oh my god Like holy fuck. Were you just like waiting for the queue? Oh my god, so I'm I'm as an r.m. Brown subscriber who subscribes to his patreon I'm going to share a bit of his patreon exclusive. Do you want if we skip over the spot? Yes, yeah, and go for it. I don't okay. It's we just talk about q and on shit We talk about the people who Which I agree by the way the movie that's not in the main theater The people who say like they're trying to prevent me from seeing sound of freedom. No, I'm agreeing with you that it's silly filmmakers agree Oh, do they know the filmmakers have yeah, they've released like a statement being like Yeah, amc is not trying to prevent people from watching the movie. Amc is the only reason why it's it's successful Is because they're fucking playing or Yeah, no, I would it's a very funny conspiracy theory And you know, it's funny. I actually have like an updated I I mean I have my own conspiracy theory about it that I think is at least fun to think about It would be funny if it turned out that amc was like Fucking with people and making their experiences uncomfortable It would only be because they discovered that that's free marketing And that every time they do that some some nut job is going to come out of the theater being like You have to watch sound of freedom because they're trying to stop you That would be funny. I don't think that that's the case, but that's a fun thing to think about Also, also, I would say that if there is a higher prevalence If there's a measurably higher prevalence of theater mishaps or You know like ac not working or the lights went out or blah blah blah like all this like dumb shit It's not it's it's not because of the subject of the movie It's because it's not like the fucking D box ultra avx 3d like it's it Theater chains organize their theaters by priority of like, okay, the big movie's playing in this one The fucking disney movie's playing in this one And then you get like some smaller theaters to the side that probably don't that, you know When they have money to spend on maintenance, they probably don't check those ones or maintain those ones as well So there might actually be a higher prevalence Of mishaps and just like, you know, oh the ac doesn't work There might be a higher prevalence of that for this movie because It's not like a fucking disney movie and a lot of these people A lot of the people watching this because it's being shared in such a political hyper political way A lot of the people watching this like this might be the first fucking indie movie they have ever seen, you know, so Uh that I could only access through rm brand because I didn't know Where to access it otherwise because I had to heard that on rm brand but I will watch the sand of freedom at some point And You're an expert in movies or at least an authority in movies true Yeah Go on He's definitely an authority, right? You'd have to concede that with the authority I would I would I would agree with the word authority for sure. You wouldn't agree with expert and that's okay I mean that's subject. I wouldn't even I don't even know that he would call himself an expert. Yeah. I don't know that is Yeah It depends on what you know genre or year You know, I don't pretend to be knowledgeable of you know, fucking pre 1950s movies Not like I haven't seen any but I don't pretend to Be an expert on those but I feel like I'm very knowledgeable and contemporary for an independent Uh indie films. Oh, yeah And or is it or additionally is it because this is a funding model Not a distribution model but a pr model that's bypassing a lot of the gatekeepers You know, they're going on podcasts that you're promoting it that tim pool I've seen talking about it, but you know, it doesn't seem to have to go through the I don't know green tomato red Tomato fresh or whatever stuff. What do you think about that? I mean, it's two folds really like it's crazy because like The fact that they're supporting this like grassroots film in it like I would love to see them support indie movies in general Like it seems like they would get what they want if they were just aware of more indie movies The movie doesn't try to make any connections to some I mean, just yeah, he does and he's making one which would be really cool Well short film, but still Should I grab a drink? Uh, it might be the only one You're okay if you want to do that. Yeah, you can you have our permission to drink I've been hearing those sodas pop open I mean, they're not well, they're they're Water they're like carbonated water things. Oh No, what are they called They're called bubblies. I used to be a liqori boy but uh Wow, you are please bubblies might be replacing them bubl y Uh, yeah bubly bubly they're pineapple pineapple one's good. Oh, that's better than our I mean, it's like Yeah, that's better. Yeah, because flavorless is nasty. Uh, I don't know how I don't see how people drink sparkling water just by itself Oh, I hate it It's so that you can spend more than poor people Oh my god I don't know. I feel like I feel like when you're at a restaurant Figure it out pretty early on like in the in the game. I feel like it wasn't didn't need a patch Water. Yeah, it's pretty good. Oh water. Yeah. Yeah. I like I like Sparkling water. I Yeah, classic water 1.0 Yeah, I genuinely think I have like some sort of ADHD because like everything I do is just for some form of stimulation I'm like, I just want the stimulating water I need my my tongue needs stimulation when I'm drinking this water. I want to crackly water Crackly. I don't know how I get fucking diagnosed at this point Impossible You know ring that's like operating at the top levels of American society or anything like that It's very much like this is stuff that's going on in, uh, Colombia Mexico that sort of thing It's just a guy trying to rescue kids from a hostile situation And that's that's really the limit of it. So it's not trying to make that connection at all Which is so weird that people seem to be getting so defensive about that. I'm too it's a cheap Okay, well what I described was not necessarily that the movie was uh trying to implicate top level people as orchestrating the Child abduction or pedophilia, but I know he's not arguing against me, but I'm just clarifying I would say as well that that Gives me more of the impression that he really is trying to say that the film itself isn't It's not proportional like the reaction to it to the film itself But it's worth considering there's loads of matter around it, of course What I'm saying. Yes. Um, and also you can probably up the speed by 0.25 Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, but in the video I decreased this the speed from oh, that's why That's why okay. Yeah, go for it. I was curious why it seemed so fast all of a sudden and I was like, oh no Isn't that political? I mean, it is very political. This movie that he's promoting is very political, but uh, yeah the uh I mean, I assume you agree the conversation surrounding the movie Yeah, because the dichotomy between like it it pertains to policy in relation to different governments and countries, but the the film itself isn't necessarily taking any shots at any particular person outside of I haven't seen it right so granted, but that's what I've heard exactly Yeah, the conversation surrounding the movie is yeah, like inherently political and it's just like it's one of those things where it's like fucking no like It seems like nobody would have seen this movie if it wasn't this big weird drama You know, yeah, I mean, there's so many indie movies that exist like as a guy that that's seen like There's I I've seen a lot of let's say like Spanish movies Where it just it clones this exact same type of or at least from what I can tell from the trailer of like Yeah, we're doing this like uh like action stereotypical thing and it's like kind of low budget like There's movies like this from what I can tell and I haven't seen it yet But from my understanding of what it is It feels like there's movies like this all the time and then this one just gets like thrust into the mainstream and just hugely successful Because there was a huge political drama about it, you know, it's it we we live in such a weird Contrarian culture where it's like well, no, we don't if you If we if you if you present the idea of like this is bad then someone's gonna be like I want to do that Or like this is good like I fucking hate that like everybody's just trying to be a contrarian. It's so annoying Yeah In this It's it's so corporatey corporately exploitative at this point in time. Although. I guess it was an independent film and not a corporation, but People are the issues with the movie are coming with the uh, unreliable narrative narrator aspect I'm getting more intoxicated as the night goes on Deep movie like it was made for like well under 20 million dollars This isn't like an indiana jones job where it's like 300 million plus god knows how much on marketing and stuff And so they don't have the budget to to do tv commercials and all the fancy advertising that you can ask for They do this grassroots stuff where they're just make themselves available to talk to podcasters and stuff Um and sell the the movie on its own merits imagine that imagine a movie the movie on its own merits like I'll watch it. I'll watch it. Don't get me wrong. I have a tough time believing based on the trailer and based on the movie that I've The the bits that I've seen like I have a tough time believing that the movie based on its own merits Is why people are like talking about it, right? It's very clearly Well, they're talking about the um The the movie makers themselves and how they've marketed it and I haven't seen any of the interviews or anything like that for it So That's true. I wish part of the marketing is that fucking qr code at the end being like if you want to Fuck it's like cony 2012 shit like you got to share this movie Except even even in cony 2012 they pretended to have like a oh here's a cony little kit And this money is going towards stopping him whereas like this movie is just like no this movie if you just Buy more tickets, then they'll we'll get the message out Was that part of the interviews and stuff or is that playing after the end? That's literally the end credits of the movie Well, that's the movie itself We're talking about he's talking about the way that they're going on the podcast and the the grassroots sort of advertising that they're doing Yeah, I would say that that's included that that's part of the marketing is how they put that in the film um, I mean Sure, but like I just for some reason it feels like you you're trying to find a way to disagree when Surely what he just said is perfectly agreeable, right? We would want more indie directors to be more willing to talk to different podcasters Maybe to celebrate and promote the movies I Don't disagree with that part. I was just I disagree with the idea that it's a film that Is successful because of its own merits We said they're trying to advertise it based on its own merits Uh Okay Which I couldn't I I don't know because I haven't seen these interviews and these uh these sit-downs They're having with podcasters and youtubers and things Yeah, I wouldn't know. Yeah, I I don't know if that's the exact words he said, but it's fine and I it's not anything that I need to Politically based right people are like, oh if you don't like the movie you're a pedophile It's just actually good that people watch it because hey, it's actually a really rewarding experience And it's a tackling an important issue that we should go on imagine that that's that it's almost like okay Hold on you're kind of contradicting yourself when you say it's actually good But then you say it's actually an important issue, right on its own merits Imagine that imagine a movie that's just actually good at people watch it because hey It's actually a really rewarding experience and it's a tackling an important issue that we should learn more about Is that not is that not exactly like what you were complaining about earlier when you're like Oh, it shouldn't be about like the race or gender of the character Well, so That would be something that's worthwhile, right? Like if they actually did bring in Maybe a very controversially chosen character or background, but it's actually executed really well If you had like two characters to promote one of them was standard one of them was unusual and they were both great You might choose the unusual one just to try and promote a slightly different experience Like you said about different cultural sort of things, right? And I guess he's saying that one of the aspects that celebratory is the fact that they've nailed a very important and good message But that it's not it's it's necessary to full praise but not sufficient I just I So I feel the same way by the way about a lot of movies that are my favorites if they've got like really good writing But also a really solid bit of like philosophy or messaging in them that feels like I'm more encouraged to promote it There's Okay, so The Film is like a based on a true story and it's argued, you know, just how much of it is like embellished or how much of it is like accurate um I could imagine people being like Share this because it's about an important issue if it were like an actual credible documentary or something, right? As soon as you like bring it into this like fictionalized retelling of like who the fuck knows right like it I've seen a lot of documentaries like Where they tackle subjects That are lesser known or like nobody's talking about this or it exposes something Or it helps people wake up to like holy shit what the fuck is going on like and everybody's like damn I wish I knew about this earlier and in that sense I could imagine people saying like yes, it's important to spread this message But like as as far as Everybody's just talking about how the movie is just about child sex trafficking With like I don't know if most people believe that that's Not a bad thing. Like I don't know if people's minds need to be changed About that or if people don't think that it's a thing that happens Like I think that that's kind of like so It would be as if fucking Derek Savage released cool cat stops the school shooting and is like Well, this is an important issue like it feels just a fringe, you know Like the movie itself should be If it were really really good though the Lorax, you know, like if it were really really good I wouldn't blame you at all for including in your review that it is an important message that we need to be more aware of How these like horrors and stuff the thing is a lot of people would probably tell you yes Of course, I know that there's a child trafficking throughout the world and stuff But they might watch the film and come away with like I didn't know it was like that and I didn't know it was that That you know, this is obviously going to be a shock of seeing it And I and I Completely agree if you want to include that as a phrase in your review about how like it's an important issue or whatever great, but I mean like that was his opening statement and it's most of what he's talked about Like to give you an example And even if even if we don't have the critical drinker as an example Like the overwhelming majority of the conversation on the internet about this movie is just They're trying to stop you from seeing this because it's an important issue and you have to see it Otherwise they win like that's it's not about the art, right? And I'm not saying that that's what critical drinkers experiences But like the the overwhelming conversation about this Is that that's why I'm taking an issue with with uh him phrasing it in this way and making these uh With him having that focus it seems I feel like the seems I wish that he went against the grain on this Well, but like the the actual like quotes that are clearly influencing how you're feeling about his quotes Like, uh, I just we gotta try and treat them as their own sort of thing as best we can, right? Like if he said something that crossed further lines, I'd be with you completely but so far He's mostly apparently talking about how he's shocked that this film is getting so controversial and so hated Despite the fact that it regards a pretty agreeable message and it does it in a very strong way. He thinks it's executed well Is that not is that not like contradictory to the movie's own merits in your opinion when you say like It's an important issue that people should know about Right. This is the exact same reason why it was critical against precious You know, I'm like, okay. It's like kind of a sloppy movie It might be about like, oh, you know, like overweight, you know impoverished, uh You know black person, you know struggling in society. She was sexually abused or whatever like The subject matter isn't a reason to think the movie is good. Is it is this not exactly what you argue against in the rest of your videos? You know, imagine that that it's almost like that's foreign to us Yeah, therefore, it's an example, isn't it of a quite it's quite gorilla and quite radical because it doesn't have to go through The processes that typically a movie would do the amount as you described that's typically spent on advertising You know you work in independent media. I've worked in independent media and sometimes what I start to feel when I wonder if you feel the same Is they're attacking the content? They don't agree with my ideology But actually I'm starting to think what they don't agree with is us existing at all. There's more like an economic problem Oh, no, this is where people are going to spend advertising. Shit. We can't keep up with this Well, I mean put it this way like when I work here making my videos I do it's me in my office at home. I got zero percent overheads I spent zero dollars on anything And so I get millions of views because people are interested to hear what I've got to say And that's you know, this this is kind of why I don't hate the critical drinker is like he's not He's not funded by billionaires He's literally just a guy that's expressing his own opinions on movies He's expressing how he feels the industry is and even though I might take a lot of disagreements with that and you know come out With a completely different perspective. It's not like it's not like he's fucking like being astroturfed you know like Say what you will about him appearing on Russell brand, but like I think it's interesting to Understand why people gravitate towards this. I think that it's very important if we if we are to make like I shouldn't include make Olivia make sure you you get oh wait He can't see the url never mind my webcam's in front of it. I was about to say block the url So no one can see that video Um, I think it's important to understand why he has 1.77 million subscribers With less videos than me. He's very clearly connected with people He's very clearly connected with like a large portion of the population He's very clearly connected with some people in the industry like Russell crow He had an interview with Russell crow if you're one of my genuine opinion on why that is I think he makes very bite-sized easy to understand very dense 10 minute videos that cover Unrecommend or tell people to stay away from in a way that they can easily associate with as to the quality of current film industry it's very very Connectable a lot of what he says remember goes well beyond Whether or not things like appealing to a particular political Perspective he talks a lot about writing in a very easy to understand way in a very quick way And um one of the powers I feel like he has that I certainly don't Is uh, he could do it quickly. He could have like a thousand points stuffed into like 10 minutes Um, would you would you call him short man? Maybe I don't think he'd take it didn't take that well, but you know What is it when you're short, but you make loads? I don't know Machine gun man That's uh the fact that he had an interview with Russell grow right I think that it's important not to just completely dismiss and be like, oh, yeah You know like no one cares what you have to say like try to try to understand what he has to say Try to understand what he has to say like engage with it. Um I I disagree with a good amount of it. I agree with some of it. I don't think that he's completely wrong in everything that he says but like, you know I think that there's a bit of nuance that he's missing And that's the thing they hate where you've got like, uh, but I'm also a person that consumes art movies and goes to film festivals where he just kind of watches Marvel movies and Everything was so great up until then, but that's okay Indiana Jones and it's it's depends on how you define it. Sure. How you define it as a park and Occasionally something like the whale news networks and you've got studios with like dozens and hundreds of employees They've got huge expenses that they go to and they get like a fraction of the viewership That people like us get because people just don't care about them anymore because they know what fake they are I've heard it said before like it was a very smart man named Robert my brother Who said the currency of our current age is authenticity and it's so fucking true people care about presenters whoever is who care about the subject matter they're talking about who actually are authentic They might not be as polished. They might not have the big production I understand someone who's as angry as him at the current state of media And I think about people that watch Russell brand I think about that, you know The my friend's sister whose boyfriend watches him. I think about that sort of person But I don't understand like making your career based off of like the media that you're watching If you're that person, I don't understand that part because it seems like you don't really Must inherently have like a very limited perspective on me with the understand with with the misconception that he wasn't seeking out many other films Which I can even even if um I mean, even if you only care about, you know, the MCU and star wars and more, you know, stuff like that You know wanting to preserve their quality or get those back on track should be pretty reasonable. Um Yeah Disney remake star wars and marvel and they said that they're doing it because they're gonna keep pounding That the whole shit they've gotten until times change sort of thing You could argue it's like why are you doing that move on to something else? But they could say like this is what matters getting the the voice out there You know, they believe in it sort of thing Mm-hmm They're talking about things that they care about and that they're invested in that's what people want honesty Yeah, it seems like it seems like Inherently you must have like an interest that suits you more, right? Like something more that you might want to do in your life other than movies I mean, I will say like he's got a shit ton of stuff going on with his life But obviously movies this is like I think what he would argue is his main hobby that's turned now into his full career You know about mixed martial arts or whether it's politics or psychedelics or hunting or thigh or supplements or whatever outside of writing, of course And short film making you get the impression because in my opinion It's true that he's saying what he believes and he's saying what he cares about and that seems sufficient to stand up against You know clear attempts to take him out around the either mech in horse pace time, which I get similarly like Did he see horse paste? Yum to stand up against, you know clear attempts to take him out around the either mech in horse pace time Which I get similarly like I reckon as well there they just don't want like, you know, carlin famous George carlin says it's like a you don't need conspiracy where convergent where interest naturally converge and the mainstream media Don't want powerful independent voices that are able to just bypass their models because like you say you've got zero overhead You can operate on your own and plainly you're in a position where if you like a movie you say you do And if you don't like a movie you say that even more and yet you're using your platform to recommend free guy like fuck I don't understand this like what's wrong with recommending free guy if you think it's good Uh, it is again Based on the misconception that he wasn't really sharing a bunch of Other lesser known artists I damn I wish that I saw someone as critical of mainstream media where like your videos Let's see if I can research the word recommends Sound of freedom the menu the whale boiling point everything everywhere all at once the expanse ford v. Ferrari All quiet on the western front arcane 1917 event horizon dread fight club I will say even without The best set of films even without the the other ones that he's done that's not bad We all we all have different thresholds for what we would consider to be Compared to what I imagine you went to recommends and it was just like big mainstream studio movies That are you know like he recommends fucking infinity war and then he recommends star wars rogue one or something Well, I mean like in terms of like how I don't know how to Categorize them other than by saying like that they're almost exclusively just movies that everybody's already heard of Except boiling point which I which I misattributed as hard-boiled which I I would be curious to know a percentage of people who have either seen the menu the whale all boiling point in chat right now I know the whale's been talked about but how do you actually see it? Well, here's the thing Here's the thing in your chat There wouldn't be a lot of people in my chat There would be a lot of people and that's not to say that i'm better I think that we all have different thresholds for What types of media that we're exposed to and the types of media that our audiences expect us to cover a lot of people watch me because I cover Foreign independent films and do film festival things and because they want to you know, not only just want to be exposed to more films outside of the Mainstream purview or whatever the word is not just because they want to be exposed to more But because they're already actively engaged in it A lot of the films that I wind up discovering are from people in my community that post on my subreddit being like Oh, shit. I just saw this thing at this film festival You should check it out and because I've cultivated an audience that is familiar with that And is interested and genuinely loves and pursues all of these smaller films It helps me to discover them too. It's it's just a part of my thing. So Um, I would say with the audience that critical With yeah, exactly with with the audience that critical drinker has I will agree That's that's why he has that audience Sorry, that's it's all circular. That's why he has the audience in the first place recommending things like this is what I think you interrupted me without me saying Something that you were going to disagree with I was saying even if even if he's recommending something like the whale Right, that's a good thing To his audience because it generally Um, the types of people in his audience are going to be less aware of a film like that than if they were in My audience So that's a good thing that he is exposing them to those things. And so yeah At the beginning of this conversation I completely conceded that point and that seems to make up a lot of like this But it sounded like you weren't unfortunately, but uh sounds like you disagree though Yeah, I thought I thought you said because we were saying even with this selection not including all of his other recommendations Well And then you said the just just the menu boiling point in the whale Well, the nature of them that those choices because what i'm trying to get at is that I'm gonna go through the list here on my desktop if he was to Recommend a lot of indie films that he doesn't actually know whether or not they appeal versus peppering them in with Lots of because didn't you say you want to you want to make sure you cover a lot of mainstream stuff as well Yeah, I don't I don't disagree with that and I don't criticize him for Well, I'm saying that I think he's pretty much cracked a really good ratio I'm not sure that he should push too hard and start like focusing too hard on a lot of indie stuff as opposed to I don't uh Yeah, I I Thought I conceded on this earlier, but yeah, I don't I don't expect him to uh cover the You know diverse area of films that I do I don't expect him to do that and I don't Even think it would be beneficial for his channel And I think that there's a lot of things that I might be interested in that he might not be that would be completely inaccessible for his audience Um, do you know about I kind of think about this in the same way that you know, you know the argument of like People will say like oh, you're a pipeline to like the alt-right or you're a pipeline to like fucking socialism everybody every major Person communicating on the internet is a pipeline to somewhere in some direction in the same sense that we're having a conversation right now You could argue that there's people pipelining from your audience into mine right now, right? So um, it exactly So I like like every there's there's different thresholds and there's different focal points um, and so what might be A movie that nobody's heard about In my audience Is entirely different from a movie that nobody's heard about in critical drinkers audience and i'm saying That that is not a bad thing That he is recommending those types of movies for his audience I'm just saying that I would categorize a lot of the movies in that specific search when I search Recommends on his channel and I've since learned that that is not the entirety of everything he's recommended I'm just saying that most of those are just movies that like You know, you don't need his channel to discover is all i'm saying But theoretically the people he draws to his channel would need his channel to discover them Yeah, depending on what type of media diet you have so yeah, it's not incorrect that he's recommending them It's not incorrect that he's not recommending more You know There are hard to find movies I'm just making an observation, which is you know, like the the same as just what I said Two sentences ago. I think It sounded like uh, you were saying that makes sense upon discovering that he recommended more it made it better to you But what we were trying to say was just this list alone is still pretty solid for his channel But now it sounds like you agree and you're chill with it Let's see So we get to the bottom of the word recommends one two three four I'm like i'm looking at purely based on the word recommends There's a few there's a few in there uh I wouldn't yeah, I would still agree that it's not Zero like certain channels only cover like yes big budget franchise ip movies Yes, I agree with that. I'm having uh a little bit of uh mental difficulty right now Differentiating between my personal feelings on the list and how I would consider them personally versus Uh, what it would mean to his audience the role he plays So so like what I'm saying like oh is this like a good list of movies like I can't really A lot of it is just stuff I'm either not interested in or jaded by or have seen and you know love or have seen and is bad but Uh, it's difficult to to quantify exactly How many people in his audience know of? Event horizon, you know Well, he obviously the the context we're recommending that is it's it's one of his like he loves that film Like that's why you wanted to throw that in. Yeah, even just the desire to go back to look at older films and recommend them Instead of just doing things that are coming out right now. Isn't that worth anything? Uh, yeah, but it I would say that I would say that the catalog of older films Uh featured on this channel is a little bit like borderline tropey In the same way and it's not to say, you know, the conversation we were having earlier Sarah Connor and Ripley are not bad characters because they're everyone's answer But I I always just kind of get like, you know, fuck, you know, when I see a lot of the same thing I wish for something different. That's just me, you know Um granted, but of course like keep your eye open, right because he'll come up with some examples here And then you'll be like oh shit for example boiling point 100 I will be Curious to hear what you think about it when you see it. Yeah, I'm excited to watch it I might watch it tomorrow actually Wait thing everywhere a lot once the expanse ford v Ferrari all quiet on the western front arcane 1917 event horizon dread fight club blade runner Top gun maverick predator draws invincible falling down like Oh man, like you have two million subscribers I can't be that upset at somebody like that just Doesn't have the same peripheral the same purview like I don't know It just it just seems like everything that you've ever recommended is something that like You have like inherently to have known about it. Someone has to have thrown it at you rather than you discovering it and I think Because the reason why I saw the menu was just because I had time to kill and I was like, oh Yeah, I'll check that one out And I mean, I don't know why there's any reason to assume that that couldn't be the case for drinker for one of these movies Yeah, I hear about these movies in such a variety of ways and I don't I don't see why it's Bad, especially if you're drinker and you know a lot of people and a lot of people are communicating with you and you them Oh, yeah, I mean get a lot of your recommendations through there That's right at some point if you're immersed enough in uh, like Like it's it's hard to be surprised by a film that comes out like it's not going to ambush you was like Oh, I'd never heard of that at all Like it becomes harder and harder because you're just more Sort of think about what's happening. Think about how we Buy video games I think that probably over 90 percent of all the video games I buy I heard about or was encouraged to buy because a friend told me about them Because I have so many people talking about games around me recommending me games people telling me about games Posting pictures of games that they were playing that I just absorb it all from them And that then I can you know, like oh, what's everybody playing? What are they recommending me to play? What does a friend want to play with me? Um, I mean yesterday the billiards, right? What we played. What was it pool nation? Because mama was like, hey, let's play pool nation All right, let's play pool nation. So we started playing pool nation. So The reason why I got picked in four was I mean I was aware of it But when I booted up my switch, I got an ad for it. So like that's an ad actually working. I'm like, oh, yeah I might play that Which uh, I don't know if that's a good thing and to clarify myself rags and Fringy all consider ourselves pretty into video games But yet we don't tend to browse the actual like libraries and see what takes out fancy if you know what I mean No, no I already know I'm interested in so I know when it's coming out No, I'm keeping like dead space didn't surprise me, right? That was one I'd keep. I was keeping my own Um, or uh, well, I guess boulder's gate three, which I that kind of snuck up Because I wasn't really paying much attention to uh To to that game But now that one sort of but that would be another instance of word of mouth because all the heroes people talking about How much they're enjoying it? like in large numbers There's kind of interesting to see how Like you said rags the way that a game can sort of organically or a film I mean everything ever all at once right is like the most recent obvious example of word of mouth Serving to advertise a film dramatically Yeah, um, when I look at some of the the games that I play or have played somewhat recently and how I got into them I'm like, oh I Deep someone wanted to play deep rock galactic with me So I downloaded it and now it's one of my favorite games or oh I saw a youtuber playing rimworld and that looked fun So I downloaded that and that that's one of my favorite games, you know, it just happens You know that and but it's not someone's fault either the way that they receive information Especially if people are calling you about it and you have to consider drinkers backlog is going to be enormous Like uh, yeah, he's not gonna want so you like any kind of he doesn't need to discover When he's got so many things that he needs to see because they've been highly recommended by people he trusts Yeah, yeah, that's like a way of curation or like a litmus test Right, you have that's kind of the thing that we haven't talked about much, right? It's just a finite time Yeah, if I have if I'm curious to see a movie and You know, I have a backlog of 30 movies and 500 games And I get a recommendation from three People that I you know trust and whose opinions I value on something That's gonna skyrocket it to the you know near the top of the list Because of course dove, of course it would that's kind of how boiling point spread I caught it That's kind of funny actually I caught that randomly on netflix. I was just like, huh? I don't know what this is. All right I remember hearing about it because of jason flaming was an interview that I was actually there for with him and I was like, all right I did say I wouldn't mind checking out to probably see it now And then I watched it was so blown away by I showed fringing rags immediately and hyper recommended it to drinker Oh, yeah, that film didn't come out this year. It came out last year, right? I think so. I think so That film was so good It's 2021 it says Right because I was gonna say like I wonder where I'd put it on like a list if it came out this year But damn it'd be really high that film would be really really really high up on the list Everyone see boiling point. It's very good It's rated g for good I must say has he dead? That's rated r for restaurant He said he had to go pee. Maybe he's have maybe this one's a big one. Mm-hmm Maybe maybe that turned into you know, maybe he had a a waterfall. Maybe his objective Change along the way Maybe his side quest became the main quest so to speak Maybe he's shitting Who knows Are we wait are we waiting then? I don't know. Should we wait? I mean, I don't know Well, I don't know. I mean we could wait we could press forward. It depends. I guess it would Confirming factor would be He's kicking the can down the road because he doesn't know fringy There is there is no can and there is no road what I'm trying to say here is that it would depend mostly on I am in my chair. I'm sitting up in my chair In the middle of my little my little doggie feet are up on the chair Look at me. I'm having some fun And I'm trying to explain that we should consider whether or not We have something to say to adam relating to this point That should probably be the Yeah, I mean the fundamental thing is It's okay if you don't go looking when you have this many forms of films being thrown at you I think in a way. It's like a luxury I don't have to hunt down things or look and find things and maybe take my chances I feel Fortunate that I have people who can recommend me things that are like really good Consistently, you know, I think that's that's very really mentioning by the way I don't actually know for sure that he doesn't Go looking Yeah, I have no idea very possible This is a lot operating under the assumption that he only does take recommendations, which I mean like with me and my like the video games that I get is it really is like over 90 percent I can't remember the last time. I just like randomly found a game And it was like, oh, I'll play this when I know that I have all of these recommendations already In a wish list already that's built from those recommendations and people constantly saying hey rags If you played this that and the other you're like, oh, no I feel like if he was peeing he'd be back. I know maybe we should just carry on I don't think maybe he has a maybe he has a lot of pee It's almost two million subscribers, right? I don't know. I'm trying not to be like super pretentious about this, but like If you care about film if you care about art, right like like showcase Showcase some people like That's not the determinant though and whether or not you care about art, right? And he does and express that in a wide amount of ways Yeah He also does and I don't I don't think um why is he even aware of his second channel He does a lot of promotion of all kinds of different things there and then obviously podcast stuff as well And if you're his size and you really do care about art, it makes a lot of sense to focus on a Huge amount of your attention let's say Let's say potentially all of your attention on the most influential and biggest media in popular culture at the moment, right? If you do care about art makes tactical sense that that would be what you go after most Because that's what's most that's what most people are watching and uh ingesting Introduce people to new artists I'm not saying that those aren't good films night of the world. I'm not saying that there aren't good films within what he recommended there I'm saying that they're all just Films that you can't possibly have known about without them being thrown at you is the problem I think you might be surprised the purpose of being a film recommend I feel I just I just struggle to buy it like you can have a really good diet Even if you're only getting things thrown at you because that's kind of the point of yeah, I mean I'm subscribed to why in this to help me catch movies. I buy a missed otherwise, you know, I mean They've thrown at me by him I mean you recommend in Movies to me and we watch those constantly, you know based on your recommendations or your curiosity or things that you've been Recommended and then we end up watching together and I feel like I have a pretty healthy film diet We watch a a good variety of things. We don't really rule much out in terms of what we watch So, I mean what were the last three movies we watched? It was Casablanca a time to kill And What was the one before that? I'd have to check out we watch a lot of movies We do I forget what the third their last one was Going by those things was in a bridge too far Yeah, oh, yeah, I think it was yeah, so it was a bridge too far Casablanca and a time to kill where the last three movies We watched all on Recommendations to some degree so all mainstream in their time Not so much mainstream. I guess right now. I don't know how you'd put that Adam you back I am great We're talking about your discoverability point What did I say that uh You you thought that for a person who cares about the art and for a person with two million subscribers You should be going out to discover movies rather than just having them all thrown at him Uh, yeah, again conceded point based off of me searching the word recommends and not realizing that he recommended far more than You know the videos with just that word in the title. Okey dokey mender, right like I'm pissed at myself for being so Far behind on my yearly list reviews like I feel like that's part of where I shine I'm trying to reorganize myself in a way where like I can Continue doing 2016 2017 all those things like I gotta cut back on how many things I include in a year um, my biggest problem is you know, like I started including like mini series and shit like that like don't worry. It'll come I've been figuring it out But like I find a lot of value in like Introducing people to things that they wouldn't have heard about without me where as I don't know if such a thing exists on this guy's channel and I'm not trying to feel like Oh, I'm such a better person because my film taste is more Unique or abstract, you know like I don't know I just I just feel like If you're touting yourself as like I know what types of things that people should be watching if you're touting yourself as like Mainstream things are bad and I know what people should be doing like I would kind of expect that you would like You know Two million subscribers almost I would kind of like hope That you're introducing people to new things and not just saying like the menu You know like just you don't like the menu or do you think this is too mainstream? um Yeah, I explained earlier uh You know different channels and different audiences will have different thresholds for What they consider to be a movie that they've never heard of or you know being exposed to different things And him recommending the menu is not a bad thing. Uh, that is a uh, yeah Just things that like everybody first impressions sort of like I think you know I think everybody kind of has this in them Everybody that talks about like media There's always kind of like this um Like I guess judginess in everybody about like the types of media that other people consume or the types of media that other People would consider to be like a hidden gem You know like that gets made fun of on on reddit So I'm gonna be like oh, I just heard of this like hidden gem called fight club People people will say like like no, but everybody everybody that cares about art has this to some extent I should assume that to some degree you have it to some degree the critical drinker has it like maybe I don't know if It's something it's something that you know just being self reflective that I'm trying to keep in check um Because I've seen that uh appear in toxic ways You know from a variety of different people, you know like criterion heads will Uh Criticize people for you know not watching enough like foreign films or something like that um But yeah, I mean like yeah, it's a I don't I don't really stand by that Point it was just uh, yeah fair. Um genuine question like an eight hour stream and uh, yeah, how do you feel about like the Ascentage of the coverage you've given is remain solid It depends if we're talking runtime or points runtime runtime Well runtime and point whatever the answers of both I'd be curious what your answers are both runtime Somewhere in the 60s um a huge amount of uh the video is uh the um, you know with with the misconception of him not Uh recommending enough of other things to his audience Uh, you know It's one point, but it makes up a huge amount of the video because I get hung up on it um In terms of points I don't know how many get brought up in the video What are they like so far like less than 10? um Because it all seems to be under the same Like repeated points, um and again I should mention Uh When doing this reaction stream, I didn't you know, I didn't come up with a premise and then start streaming Um, I didn't I didn't go like oh here's what I want to get out of the video I kind of just saw where it took me um, I provided some context as to what uh You know my limited perspective with his channel was before reacting to it and also like it as much as much as it is Um an exploration of trying to see how much of it conforms to those predisposed Uh Assumptions or or I guess predispositions is a better word as as much of it is Uh A way of me seeing how much it conforms to that. It's also a way of me seeing um, how much of Uh Other people's criticisms feel unwarranted because as I mentioned at the very beginning beginning of the video Um, I feel like he has gotten a bunch of criticism online that has been unwarranted And I feel like a lot of the times when people are just like mad at someone because they're conservative or something Uh, they kind of stretch to find Uh reasons to dislike someone which I don't think I was doing here like my my Any misinterpretations that I've made were not like because I was operating in bad faith They were just like oh, okay I didn't realize that he had other videos where he didn't include recommends in the title Which made up I don't know 40 of the whole video, uh, you know So I don't know. I don't know what the I don't know what the overall number is because at the same time like Some of these are a little interpretable. Some of these we seem to have a bit of a disagreement over, uh What the intention of both the question and answer of some of the things he's being asked are um But Either way, you know, it's less about making a claim definitively of like, oh, here's Here's this thing that he said and here's how I'm judging him over it and more just like me You know having an experience with this video and being like, you know, this is this is me discovering more about him or this is me Trying to engage with what he's saying and trying to uh understand the popularity of his channel and understand the uh You know the the I guess goals or worldview that he has and why Why he upsets so many people I find I find it to be like an interesting subject so I kind of wanted to just You know dive in but not not in like a fucking Kimba way, obviously because this was the night before a flight and I just wanted to do a reaction thing um But yeah, you know, I didn't I didn't make a fucking What's it called? What do they even call them? Broke an attack video or something like I don't know. I didn't like Hit piece. Thank you. Um, you know, I didn't I don't think that I made that and I don't think I definitely didn't set out to make it Some people, you know, whenever there's any kind of disagreement on the internet, especially if it it's disagreement between like Political or worldviews or even perceived political or worldviews? There's gonna be people that fucking they just kind of want to see the more dramatic version of that You know, you opened up this conversation saying that somebody had sent Uh a message to you being like, oh, he just destroyed him. It's like, I don't know if that's what I was doing I kind of just I kind of just disagreed with some things and yeah, sure there are moments where I'm like, that's crazy But that's like the majority of it is just me being like, well, you're right But there's more to it than that, you know, so If if we're including points that I'm making As not just criticisms, but things I'm agreeing with then I mean like, yeah A lot of the overwhelming majority of it stands because we don't half of the video is just me agreeing with him But providing more context anyway, so So my perception is that it's um a lot of the major points that are critical of drinker lack Significant context that can completely alter them and that this is basically the main source Of yms and his opinion on the critical drinker as a youtuber, which culturally speaking Isn't too useful um, it's unfortunate at best and uh, we can we can keep going of course. I'm just curious if Do you have any preference beyond that or would you rather just be considered? This is a casual stream and that's all it should be treated as What do you mean a lot of people could see this and point to this and share it as this is this is one of the most respected film critics Breaking down everything that's wrong with drinker Um I don't know if that's what I did and I don't even know if that's what the takeaway from the audience is Like there's tons of people in the comment section on my video that are just like, oh, yeah, I like them both Um, I understand this or blah blah blah blah I think you know Something that I try to be in something that I feel like a lot of people got from it um, is that I came in fair and with an open mind and uh good faith and You know, I'm willing to hear people out. Even if I misinterpreted some things I think that that's kind of inevitable not only from You know having limited perspectives on Anything but also just the nature inherent nature of it being a live stream format um So I don't know I I I I guess I misunderstand your question, but yeah, like it's this isn't this isn't like a uh An essay video. No, I know. Um, I guess I'm lamenting on the fact that I think the the two of you could easily be Uh in good communication, but this would be seen as like You're condemning him along with many as as the kind of character that a lot of people assume that he is I feel like at the very least I'm providing context as to why people assume that he's this way I feel like it like as much as I have to learn from Uh, you know your defense of him and these clarifications of things that he said or maybe he means but didn't say um, you know I can I can take away a lot from that I'm hoping that you know the broader community or his fans or him or you Also take away like okay. Well, you know That the way that the he phrases some of the titles It's no surprise that people come away with that impression or the way that he responds to some of these questions in the interviews like again, this is one interview Uh, that's what my video was based on. Um But it doesn't seem to be like an inconsistent issue in terms of like how he could Uh, Clarify or phrase himself or the types of the types of caricatures that people paint him as I don't think they just came from fucking nowhere They're not like oops like this could just happen to like any youtuber And I'm not saying he deserves it and I'm not saying that he intentionally feeds into it But if he's trying to avoid that sort of caricature, I think that this whole conversation Can provide at least some food for thought as to You know self-reflection of like, okay, maybe how could I avoid? You know this miscommunication or this Misunderstanding happening in the future pretty much everything I've ever been heavily criticized over on the internet I've made some pretty, you know pretty detailed Uh, clarifications for and you know engaged pretty thoroughly with um But again, I haven't seen all this content. I haven't seen any interview Uh Well, yeah, we'll just have to see What curiosity will this go but yeah, what we're doing today. Will that be going on your clips channel? Highlights, why not? No, would you like it too? I mean, I think it works as clarification, right? I mean, I think that this coverage would um supersede this video I feel like you've been way more detailed. I mean, I Yeah, I I'm comfortable with that and I was intending on it. Um at the very least linking to your video Um Yeah, I I assumed That that would yeah, okay. I'll be able to highlight this Already knows about like I don't know. Maybe this is a weird criticism, but yeah Well, I know he pays me to do this as such like, you know, I don't have relationships with studios I can damage by sliding off their movie and that's the thing I can just be honest about it But I always try to be fair That's why I always want to be I don't want to just hit on a movie because like it's made by a director I don't like whatever be fair. That's all I expect from what I do I'd hopefully people People understand that and that's why they watch my videos because I'll give an honest opinion about things In the Indiana Jones one you listed movies where you sort of where you were wrong You said like I fought Dungeons and Dragons wouldn't be any good and you were wrong about that I feel like even some of the uh, Disney TV shows you've sort of gone. Actually, that's pretty good And you know, so you've like I guess that's your point about all fantasy being a currency And in fact, this is a border point He didn't think Dungeons and Dragons would be good and then he enjoyed it But the problem is like He's still only seeing movies like Dungeons and Dragons, right? You need principles if you have a principle then sometimes that principle is going to cost you sometimes He's not he's not he doesn't really have a healthy media diet Stop it support you but it remains consistent I know it's past Adam. We don't like him Interesting take When you're defending yourself It's not touching this with a fucking 10 foot pole. I'm afraid we're gonna move right along And then when you're Another country, I love you guys are the same thing Yeah, you mean close the bombs like that idea, but yeah, I mean, it's it's like, uh, yeah I sometimes I'll watch the trailer for a movie. I'll get my thoughts on it and like make some predictions about what the film's gonna be like Sometimes I'm right almost this time. I am but sometimes I'm wrong and like I'm happy to admit that if a movie I go and watch it and it's better than I expected. I'm a happy man because I got to watch a good movie So that's okay as far as I'm concerned. So yeah, for me, there's nothing wrong with admitting that you occasionally call it wrong That's well, I mean again, this is the problem my subjective anecdotal experience with the critical drinker is like people that would otherwise not Be subscribed to any channel that talks about movies if it wasn't for them talking about like, oh Things are bad now Things are bad now because the people are trying to make you be a thing Okay, as long as you're you're honest with people What about do you sometimes get a bit um, let's say super charged by the like, you know, if something isn't If I want a better term woke, do you think oh my god, do you think it almost gets an extra bit of juice because of that? I'm talking about films like maybe um, you know maverick or the even and the mario brothers movie just Oh Even though the mario bros movie got fought over as to whether or not it's woke I love the anti woke crowd Gravitating towards the mario brothers movie that was so funny. I love that shit. It's a thing. It's a thing And I don't know why they're like mario brothers being successful is is it Is a stab against the woke mob like virtue of the fact that it's not like I find it It's just mario. It's super popular thing that exists in the world Like I don't know why it was so surprised It's a very apolitical movie Well, I mean it's it's illumination, right? It's like super duper safe In terms of like what it's trying to be as a film can very conventional from a storytelling standpoint crowd-pleasing It's just a very normal kind of movie Think that by not having the kind of Even though I mean You know luigi was captured for most of the movie and princess peach wasn't and she was helping I get your highlight and how that discussion went down a lot of people talking about whether or not that makes it woke or not It was that's just a thing that happened mario like you could say that that's just as woke You could say that that's a very feminist movie Honestly the mario brothers movie But it seems to have split a lot of conservative commentators because it was successful and they're like Oh, yeah, this was successful because it wasn't woke Lag the wokeness can um apply because it prevents as to use for one example a character from having a meaningful arc Because they're already presented as perfect on the basis of identity We shouldn't be what's presented at the center of a film and if it's free to that it's a little bit better Or do you think that you're sort of off and god bloody mario brothers isn't doing that and you get excited There's the initial emotional reaction of like, oh this movie doesn't fucking hate me because I'm like a straight white man It's a pretty bold thing to say about the mario movie, right? It is funny to say it about the mario movie That seems like kind of out of nowhere right Again The conversation around the film like he's on wrestle brand. They've been talking about a lot of like culture Word shit kind of you know That jerk from the simpsons where home is like tv doesn't laugh at me, but it's mario pointing at you Yeah It's more of a commentary on other movies than the mario movie, right? Well, yeah, this is obviously said with a lot of baggage that if you're not familiar with then Yeah, but but I like the baggage itself kind of speaks towards like again media diet and then like the the interpretation of that media, you know like how How how many movies and pieces of media do you think exist? In terms of the overall landscape of even studio films Where you watch it and you feel like you're hated because you're a straight straight white male The correct answer would be like like studio movies even I Genuinely wouldn't know how to answer that. I assume it's going to be below like fucking five percent maybe ten whatever But the true answer is too many And so that's obviously what he's appealing to but I would never phrase it that way I assume he's trying to be a little tongue-in-cheek because it is mario Yeah, I guess so it's just you know Someone if someone sees that then it just makes it seem like that's that's like the focus And if you're saying like maybe he might agree with us that it's like under five percent Of even studio movies, right To like be asked about the mario movie and then like that's your answer Like sure it could be a joke or something, but it's like again We're kind of we're kind of like learning a bit more and more about like why he might be misinterpreted in certain ways Um, you know how you know how I use the word propaganda. You're like, I don't know if you want to say that word Well, it's because it's gonna shut people's brains off. That's why Yeah, exactly in a certain way You can kind of you can kind of predict how some people might react to certain things So like I don't know if I don't know if he cares or if it's a part of his goal at all to not be Misrepresented in the ways that he's currently been But that would be something to consider right is like if you're asked about the mario movie You don't know your first the first thing you say isn't well this movie doesn't hate me because I'm a straight white male But again, uh, could you buy the fact that that's that's the the comedic sort of spin on this that we're actually at that point That he's like that's the first thing I'm gonna highlight like he's obviously got more to say on he has a whole video on it And I don't know I I know But it but it again if If it represents like less than five percent of the movies that exist, I don't know if it does seem like kind of a weird thing to Be focused on to the point where that's what you're saying about the mario movie Like I said, I think it's funny, but uh There's this comedic elements to the fact that he's he may be doing on purpose But if he's not if he's very sincerely saying that's that was enjoyable about mario didn't hate me for being a white male It's funny as fuck because mario is just such a harmless plumber running through a cartoon world like the idea of Hating people for their race doesn't really come into it from my perspective. Yeah, I mean Of course he's saying it with like comedic Sensibilities like of course he's saying it like as part of a joke um It's just a matter of like You can still say a joke and kind of just play into The type of program that you're on and the type of thing that you know, but he does consider a program might want to He does consider it something worth fighting back on wherever he feels he can make reference to it, right like the Noxious attitudes in hollywood and I assume that's part of what the broad conversation was supposed to be about with russell as well Do you feel like that's every movie you criticize like it hates you because you're a straight white man like jesus christ I understand I understand and agree with a lot of the points that you make in terms of like Damn like a lot of these new writers sucks. They should be taking more risks You know like the studio should be funding new ideas instead of gravitating towards new old ip's but like Saying that it hates you for being a straight white man like You you could be imagine imagine yourself Imagine yourself as a black person Who is not a male imagine yourself as a black woman in the 1980s Would you feel justified with your same perspective on media as as you have right now? Would you feel justified in feeling like every movie that you watched? Was someone saying that they hated you for being a black woman? That is going to be a question for him to answer, but I don't think he would say yes I think he would be like point to the movies back then that had sentiments within them that related to like The sort of black women are to blame for x yz Yeah, um when I uh made that statement I misattributed his uh his response as being That he feels as though he's hated because of uh The way that things are shifting in terms of representation in my brain As a person that's not constantly watching marvel studio movies I was not thinking of whatever like I haven't seen it But like what she hulk is that a movie is that an example? Like I just I did that shit's just like not even in my mind And I just forgot that this was a marvel brained disney brained conversation So I misattributed his his like oh it hates me because i'm white as being a uh Statement on representation and not a statement on like oh these writers must have had like a bad experience with like a white guy Yeah, that's that's probably more what's being appealed to but also when you say disney brain marvel brain It's like the stuff that the vast majority of the world is watching And I hope to change that Okay, don't you and I hope you have to change that of course if everything that you watch right now is like you feel as though like It they hate you because you're a white man like how do you It honestly like today's media landscape. Sure. There's a lot of bullshit. There's a lot of nonsense There's a lot of like hey member berries and there's a lot of people that aren't talented working on movies that shouldn't be but but to say that like The media landscape is like oh I watch a movie and I feel like I feel like I'm hated for being a white male like that's kind of that's It's kind of like an exaggerated sort of reactionary feeling towards just seeing more Inclusivity or more. He's definitely that's not like why you're saying that and I think you just said you you understand that, right? Yeah Representate like the same kind of shit that Russell brand was talking about like I don't know 20 minutes ago or whatever in the podcast like he was saying he has two daughters He was saying he doesn't want to see like every single main character being a white man He was asking you a genuine question of like how do you reconcile with the fact that like Maybe there are people that want to see more of this type of person like I don't know I don't know I I can understand that there are some examples of films that you have Where it might be like okay this specific scene it's like okay This person like writing this obviously hates white people obviously hates men But to act as though that's the media landscape right now to act it it it doesn't speak towards Media it speaks towards your media diet. It hasn't you but would you concede that that should never be in any fucking films at all? Uh No, no, I wouldn't because I I would have the exact same Opinion if it were any gender any race. I don't think that we should restrict the type of art that people should make That doesn't mean I want government to stop them from creating it I would have a moral condemnation of the message in the film Whether the judge I mean I would I would either not watch it or watch it and then be like wow This was fucking dumb. Yeah, I'm not suggesting we clamp down and prevent them from having awful opinions, but that we condemn those I've I've openly criticized Movies for having like fucking weird ass moral conclusions, right, so We're not making statements about the film industry You're making statements about the types of films you consume specifically and that's my biggest issue It's perfect on the basis of identity We shouldn't be what's presented at the center of film and if it's free to that it's a little bit better Better or the old bloody Mario brothers isn't doing that you get excited There's the initial emotional reaction of like Hey, well this movie doesn't fucking hate me because I'm like a straight white man That's nice like that's a change of pace, but you know a change of pace like it's the norm It's when you say it's the change of pace for the Mario brothers movie to not hate you because you're a straight white man I'm praising here again. It makes it seem like he doesn't think it's like a small percentage of I'm sure he would agree that it's When he says change of pace the implication is that it's like the exception to the norm to not be hated as a straight white male, right? But like wouldn't you understand a disproportionate Reaction to it like it being present at all is going to fill your head more so because it's absolutely fucking crazy like to come across it Anyway, what I'm saying. Yeah, you're right. It is not in the majority And I don't even think that he would say it is in the majority if we actually like laid out the majority of studio films I doubt he would list them all as like they hate white men But he would still probably say like it's gonna influence his perspective more significantly than it is present Yeah, and I wouldn't blame anybody for that of any race and gender That's a nice way to to justify why he said that but like it's not what he's he said Right. Yeah. No all I've done is try to explain why he may have said that despite the fact that he probably doesn't believe it to be that way literally Okay That doesn't speak towards film culture or films that speaks towards the types of films you consume specifically and your experience with those films That's an that's an insane thing to say You try to be um, you try to break the movie down like into its component parts and say well, okay This one I enjoyed why did I enjoy like was the plot good with the characters good? Whatever, so you try to be a bit more objective about it. Um, but it's also possible This is an interesting discussion about um, it's possible for something to be woke by the normal standards But also be good if it's well written that the example I've given before is a tv show called arcane which puts forward This is very interesting and I agree a lot of what we would consider to be war politics Like a lot of extremely not that I finished arcane. I found it very boring, but um, you know Uh, really you did Everybody keeps saying everybody's like oh you gotta watch until episode three. I'm sorry Maybe sometime when I feel like watching how boring Episode one and two are So you well, they're not boring. Oh wait. You stopped after two it was to me So so if I found episode one boring then clearly the show is not for me if people who like it didn't find Oh, that's such a shame. I I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I wanted to like it I went in wanting to like it didn't happen I've tried my best Just you know one day if you want to try again Watch two episodes three I will say and I think we said this on our coverage episode one and two were the sort of slowest But in retrospect once completing the season and doing it over to get notes I started to realize how valuable episode one and two were There's a lot of stuff in there that I don't think you'd realize at the first time through necessarily how important everything That's getting set up is there There are like hour-long episodes right like 40 minutes or something. Yep. Yeah Like but it's not an episode. There's so many other things. I gotta watch The one thing I'll say I know you probably watch it anymore You've probably heard this before but one thing I'll say is I feel like you'd be impressed with the way episode three goes Um, like it's relatively subversive. You don't see that often especially in big productions like that. Um, There's a reason why everyone says get to three Do it I want to pimp out a movie right now. It's called hundreds of beavers and I just watched it a week ago At fantasia and it might be at a couple other film festivals before Some sort of maybe theatrical run eventually on digital Maybe it'll be on digital at the end of the year. You never know but hundreds of beavers Based based ass movie. It's a very very funny slapstick comedy Uh With modern sensibilities and editing and very self-aware Uh, yeah, all right. That's that's that's one of those like every film festival. I see I see You know a handful of movies where I'm like, this isn't even just appealing to like me. This is like damn I'm gonna show this to everybody, you know So funny I'll keep a note Plast struggle at oh god. It's woke because there's gay relationships in it. God damn. Holy shit It's woke because there's gay relationships and strong female characters. Holy fucking christ Yeah, um, he's got a video called what is woke you could probably check out his full paradigm for what he believes qualifies and doesn't Um, can you can you curate me a list of videos that I should be watching from the critical drinker? If I don't want to watch all of his videos, but I want but you want to make a good case for things that he's done Sure, uh, I assume you don't mind if I do that maybe tomorrow Or after we do this maybe Because right off the top of my head. I'm not sure what I would choose, you know Hello All right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'd take your time Be considered woke in other movies because it's widely handled, but it's extremely well integrated into a really good story in that tv show And so okay, well you contradicted what you said you said it's woke But it's still good and then tech 10 seconds later you said it might be considered woke in other movies But it's not in this like what do you be considered woke in other movies because it's widely handled But it's extremely well integrated into a really good story So it's not woke if it's well integrated, but you just said it was woke but still good I feel like that is a little bit tangled up. Um, I'd be curious to know what he would say Straighten this out. Hey, hey, this is an example of say progressive politics or progressive ideology done well It can be done, but you've just got to write it well. That's what we look for a good story I think that's the part you should take away from all of that All right, don't use it instead of yeah, I mean, that's the that's the part we don't disagree on Yeah Yeah, I agree. Don't use it instead of structure I agree in the sense that if you are pushing a political agenda You know, it doesn't matter whether you're left or right like if that replaces your characters if that replaces your script I agree with a lot of like the sentiment of what is being said in a uh, you know a principled way, but For for the critical drinker to be like, oh, yeah sound of freedom and like I'm gonna watch it. Don't worry. I'm gonna watch it, but like I don't know I don't know that's a little that's a little bit It seems like a bit of a contradiction there I'll watch it. I'll watch it. We'll see. We'll see what I feel about it when I watch it, but Matrix is a good example. So obviously of how sort of different ideals and identity transcendent of homogeneity and heterodoxy presented as Aspirational and cool. And then the house keys, of course, which house keys Like uh, like I had a sort of uh, obviously the was house keys was house keys Was house keys Like, you know, the trajectory of those movies like that maybe that's something for you to talk about But also like again with my personal position as a father of girls and also as a person that do Mike was asking stories for everyone. There should be stories for everyone I think this is him asking the second time. Okay You know to sort of use the phrase from which your name is derived Like I want things to reward me and to make sense, I suppose So, um, would you touch on like, you know, sort of the matrix and the house keys or whatever if I'm saying the name, right? And also what films would I direct to my girls? Because I don't even like it sometimes I watch an old simpsons And Bart goes girl to shit. Oh, whatever. I'm like, oh my daughter's watching that. You know what I mean? So Oh my god I love that Russell brand is like actually trying to like Get him to answer the real questions here I'm like actually very impressed with Russell brand here because he's very much saying like, hey My girls are growing up and like all this old media is not really reflecting like Their experience and so he's like this is the second time he's asked him this question He didn't really answer it the first time to be fair. This is a different question The first question was what are we to do? Yeah, because the first question he said We got all these strong female women. What are we supposed to do? Like what uh, how we to fix this problem and drink it like I said was talking about we cracked it pages ago Writing dynamics now. He's asking him. What can they watch that's already out? That isn't something like bad simpson episodes where they're critical of women or something By the way, I'd love to know which ones he's talking about. Uh, we're because even if Bart shits on girls in an episode He probably doesn't I don't think the episode supports that sort of stuff Lisa is the most relatable character in the show. You think Yeah, she's the fucking she she always like she's the brain she solves everything I guess so I think some people might pick some other characters, but that's fair. How Who's who's more relatable? Well, I mean you could point easily to Bart as being relatable like Bart gets an F. He's a fucking sociopath. Bart gets an F. He captures a hell of a lot of like younger boys. Yeah I mean, I just again. I just point to Bart gets an F Like what is that? It's an episode where he becomes really really really upset After feeling that he tried his hardest and he still failed at school Like I think I think I would imagine there's plenty of people who would feel that that's relatable And then there's also a general idea that like Bart does care about his family and sometimes because he's selfish or self-focused or He just wants to be cheeky that he ends up hurting the people that he cares about There's there's more than a few episodes that relate to him disappointing marge and that being something that he struggles with And then of course you've just gone home or is like home is relatable as uh as a sort of you know middle-aged uh Homer feels like indulging your id which is why he's relatable like you watch him make decisions This is a very interesting perspective because I thought it was like pretty unanimous that Lisa was the most relatable character I mean, I would say that Lisa obviously I'd say that's one of the strengths of the simpsons Is all of the characters are relatable in some sense It's just she's like the most grounded. She's like the the audience member. A lot of people find her annoying She often sees and a buzz kill you can find her annoying But she's often the one like being like hey, this is what are you doing? Well, I think what we're discovering is that you find your most reliable, right? Which is fine. I see we're discovering you find it the most reliable, which is totally fine. Yeah. Yeah, of course Time all right, so so rewind rewind a tiny bit and let's just reaffirm that he's asking the question now What movies should my daughters watch if they want to see more representation and see themselves reflected in media We agree that that's the question. Oh my god I love that Russell brand is like actually trying to like Get him to answer the real questions here I'm like actually very impressed with Russell brand here because he's very much saying like hey My girls are growing up and like all this old media is not really reflecting like Their experience and so he's like this is the second time. He's asked him this question He didn't really answer it the first time So this is fucking fascinating and we're gonna see if he is able to answer it the second time So touch on that side as well if you could Yeah, I mean in terms of like if you're looking for movies with good female role models like damn Oh, are you gonna say oh wait wait wait wait? Let's let's just assume that he's gonna say Ripley and Sarah Connor again. Let's see if he says anything else. Yeah, like you've got this already our movies I suppose like we mentioned before you've got some uh, you've got Ripley from the first It is The most popular really well-known examples and yeah, and then we you know How many examples is he gonna be able to give and if you only had a cap of let's say five should they be included? I probably recommend them I would that's the problem. That's not a problem. Is that there is that there's not no I mean, that's that's a part of the The movies and it's the problem is not the characters, but it's it's like the the limited selection Right He would be able to list you hundreds He's not got the time And he's not got the do you have to clarify the familiarity as well I can name you a lot of characters that if I go by the first name second name You're still gonna be like who the fuck are you talking about then I might be able to name the series slash movie They're from you might be like I haven't seen that It's great. I don't know because I feel like if I am asked about Obviously No, I mean, okay It's it's it's about not having achieved something to even the level of that since the 1980s Right. I think drinker would argue we have but he's gonna have to give it give him a sec to find the listing of what it would be Well, so there's also this if I were here and on on like a a much more like I guess may Well, like if I was on if I was on somebody else's show and I didn't have A good grasp of what that audience would be familiar with as references I'm not sure what I would pick Because I think part of me would be thinking like what are some examples I can pick that it's more likely than not somebody is familiar with and that they can latch on to you know Versus here's something here's something to think about you might you might agree with me on this and you might not Do you think that perhaps? there's A bit more of like a selection bias when it comes to talking about strong female characters versus strong male characters in the sense that You know Movie in the past year. I love fucking tar. It's like an amazing incredible performance very strong Female character, but she's not like a she's she's not a good person, right? And so it would be weird kind of including it in that Whereas I'm not sure if I would have that same reservation talking about male characters I feel like I feel like I could include A strong male character is on a list of like, you know the fucking daniel plain view like the guy's a bad guy But what a strong character. Do you feel like there's a weird selection bias? I think I understand what you're getting at. Um, I think part of the problem is when you asked role model It's like, okay. Well, that's a that's a different conversation through like my favorite I think that's why he's struggling even more because makes it more difficult, doesn't it? The uh, Ripley is pretty easy to argue is a role model not past aliens though It gets complicated after that like I don't know if you want to Model yourself after everything. She doesn't especially because we get into identity problems too, but um, Sarah like obviously what you'll be picking is the Stullwart sort of nature of defending your own and to stand up against tyranny and oppression or something like that you can argue role model elements, but I don't blame him at all for resorting to them first They're obviously going to come to his mind and the big issue here is is it or is it not indicative of his lack Of understanding slash experience slash selection of female characters and is it indicative of society problem wider where we don't Properly library in our own heads like female characters. I think not I think this is easily explained by the fact that they are popular because they are popular and that we resort to them Quickly if you sat him down He'd be able to list you a shit ton. He already mentioned arcane. Let's go to shit ton of female characters that agree I think it's at least Partially true even by like one. I feel like it's so easy To connect it when uh, we have easy explanations alternatively that don't relate to like I find it so hard to be convinced when there's just countless female characters that I think are great And I know that he does too But I would still label Ripley and Sarah. Yeah, like I like I'm You know trying to be introspective I might just be hung up on the definition of you're far from the only person that role model and it makes This criticism might just be something in my brain where Difficult to make that connection. Well, you know the fact that the rags are a part of the conversation It's a part of the bias, right? The fact that rags at a win and then you were like, oh Lord rings Yeah, it's like we don't have that problem with Ripley and Sarah. That wasn't dismissive. No, no not dismissive. I was just remembering Okay, sorry Right. So the fact if I I mean Yeah Yeah, I know that name because my roommate's a nerd on lord Yeah, no, no, no, that's my point if there's so many we could name that we'll have to do clarifications afterward And that there are ones you could name that Russell will be like, yeah, yeah true and has no fucking clue What we'll drink is talking about It there's so many reasons to choose Ripley and Sarah and the only alternative to convince me otherwise that like it relates to a Lack of familiarity or understanding of female characters or even a lack of them in film to me I just don't buy it according to the statistics so to speak At this point we agree I mean I did agree before that Ripley and Sarah are Great examples of strong female characters and at this point we both agree We would like to see more of them Let's listen to the rest of how Mr. Drinker Answers this conversation, which this question, which is What characters Should my young daughters be watching Two alien films you've got marion from from radius of the lost off. Okay, we got one more We got one more the first two were the first two that I said though. Oh my god We got we got one more arc you for the matrix. You've got okay We got matrix from long kiss good night like all these these are very interesting characters You know they go flaws they go weaknesses they go problems along the way, but like they they overcome those things. Um, so yeah, like I don't Man, I don't know if I eat like okay Like I do want to clarify He did give five examples and then he started moving on to make points. Like is that not fair but but Yeah, that's fair. I I my my hang up is what he says after what I'm done saying here So Sarah Connor and Ripley Are very much like the go-to for this question Right, like there's sci-fi horror women Characters that are main characters because it's a horror movie mostly, right? I don't know if I agree that like trinity from the matrix is a great female character Like I don't know if I agree that much it was written by women, right? It was written by trans women Um, it's considered to be like a trans allegory or whatever we're gonna call it. Um Um, maybe retrospectively, maybe not. I don't know But I don't even know if I agree that like trinity is like that great like she literally just She's in the story to be like, oh, I love you. I'm gonna kiss you to like bring you back I love you bad, but what the fuck you talking about trinity is a full-fledged character as well She's not she's not as Uh Tropy or stereotypical as the worst examples of like Uh, oh, I'm just here for the main character, but essentially she is that You could argue a lot of characters exist in their proportions to the main character But she also has character. There's reasons she does everything I'm not saying she has no character but for that to be in your top five of It's not top five though. Is it is five the first five he thinks of first first five you think of Yeah, it's it's it's I which is perfectly fine and reasonable Because we don't because we don't control the first five that come to our heads and you know that right No, I know that but if I thought of one that was like that that I would probably keep searching for another one is my problem I'm sure it would have though. I mean like the fact that reasonable If you said to drink it like wow, you don't think, you know Main characters from arcane or everything every world at once with mentioning you'd be like, no, no, of course Yeah, those two. Yeah, a hundred percent I'm sure you would say that a hundred percent It's just that you are going to necessarily exclude many excellent choices If you're just going if you're on this format, you're just going with the ones that come to your head that do fit and are appropriate answers Back to life. Okay, like that's most of her purpose. That's most of her I don't know if I even even if I'm to say like, oh, yeah females females wrote this film It's like a great female powered film and a trans allegory I'm not sure if I even agree that trinity. Is it like a great Woman character in any sense like she's really kind of a she's just a side character That's there to prop up the main male character, right? Like a lot of the examples that he's giving that aren't Ripley and sarah connor are literally just like I don't know side characters Is marion ravenwood a side character? Um, I mean, she's not the protagonist, but I don't know if it's just a dichotomy of Side character and protagonist Yeah, indiana jones. Yeah, that movie just was Oh wait, you have controversial opinions about the indiana jones movies, don't you? Hell, yeah, that's okay. We accept all opinions. I have based opinions You want to let people know again what they are Uh, yeah, the only good one is temple of doom the rest are mid Okay It's a different opinion and that is welcomed. Did you see dial of destiny? Yeah, that was pretty bad. Yeah, that was pretty bad. That one isn't mid then that one that one is Okay, the ranking for the series Is five six five four four I have six You gave dial of destiny a full You wait you Is only one point better than the dial of destiny Jesus Christ. Yeah, that's actually That's actually insane. It's okay. That's actually to clarify. You think that shazam too is significantly better than right as the lost It's about this happened for what it's trying to be. Yeah, okay. No, I don't know significantly I gave that a low six. I think a low six. I don't know if I gave that a solid six I think I gave that a six closer to five than a seven Okay But I could be wrong. I don't know like he'd he It's I agree As a response to jennifer lorence saying i'm the first female superhero I agree that that's cringe and yes, we're gonna we're gonna give the examples of sarah khaner We're gonna give the examples of rippley. They're great female heroes. They're great female characters. They exist but if you're if you're answering the question of Not have there been female good characters that have existed, but you're answering the question of Hey, you know, maybe we should see more female characters at some point in time and you're like, oh, there have been plenty of So do you really think that's what he's saying or that that's a position he holds? uh Wait wait for him to say the things after i'm done talking and we'll discuss that That's that's it. I'm waiting for him to say a very particular thing you hey, right? Like that's It depends on what question you're being asked, right? He's also right cinematic history that have given us this stuff Thanks I'm sorry really in recent years and trying to highlight this stuff and trying to correct a problem It didn't really exist in the first place They've made it it didn't exist enough they're trying to correct a problem that That sounds like a weird thing to say right when when people are trying to To include more representation of women in film So do you think when he says problem we both He's talking about That because he's saying a problem that didn't exist in the first place What he means is how to write women to better represent them in in cinema or whatever when he's saying We already had women in cinema that were very well written. There's no problem to correct there How I don't know how that's different than what i'm saying So do you see how like captain marvel they see that and Ray and all these other characters as examples of like ha ha now This is an age of women We're doing way better for them when they are categorically doing way worse for women now compared to any other time For writing characters in movies maybe if you go all the way back to like 40s 50s or something I'm not even going to make a claim about that because i'm not as familiar with the films But my point is of course that we cracked so many great female characters And then they start trying to fix that like give us better ones and they make some of the worst in history So when he says it's a when he says it's a problem That didn't need to be corrected in the first place. What is the problem that he's referring to my read would be that It would be the the idea that women weren't written with depth Because what russell brand is is like that would be an answer if russell brand was trying to say hey, we need the first We need the first well written female character. That would be the answer to that But he's not saying that he's asking about More representation and things to show his daughters that aren't just from the 80s Which you know, they discussed previously and that's why he's kind of Asking again, maybe not the exact same question, but he reiterated the same thing if you believe it to get Examples of things to show his daughters right If you believe that's what drinker thinks the response to that So how could how can I interpret him saying? It's a problem that Didn't need to be corrected in the first place. How can I interpret that as anything other than him saying that the Uh, the goals of people trying to make more representation in film is a problem that shouldn't have been corrected and that he's trying to argue that Just because there were these other examples in the past That that's plenty of representation and that people don't need to be trying to do that Right specifically referencing all of the cringe shit like you brought up with jennifer laurence making her claim In uh in quantum mania. There's like a sequence where michelle pfeiffer breaks out of uh, you know, whatever capture she's in and the Writer and director say no damsels in distress here And like there's this growing attitude with the presentation of like a the girl in secret invasion Who's now the most powerful avenger of all time because she's got all of their dna in her They would argue that these creators we're doing so much for women and we're fixing the problem of women Not being as present not being as free mentioned in depth not being as layered not being as prominent And drink is trying to say there was no problem to fix we were doing fucking great We had loads of amazing female characters not to say that we had the correct amount exactly what i'm saying though Yeah, but not to say that we don't need any more He's he's more than happy to have plenty more great female characters We know that from all the reviews i'm not saying that he's upset by their Necessarily that he's upset by their being more But it seems like he's arguing against the people that think that it's a worthwhile cause to try and make more I would agree with him if he's arguing against the concept that women haven't been served well by character writing Like that we we have to look at our past as some kind of like horrifying mess compared to the current The position we're in which is much worse Well, I'm trying to reconcile with what you're saying He's saying and what he's saying or what at least at the very least what I think he's saying Because if I were him and I believed You know, there's this all these great examples of female characters You know most of the examples being brought up being in the past you have an entire video saying Here's why female characters are improperly written now. How does that translate to you saying? Sorry for to him saying This is a problem that didn't need correcting in the first place because if you look at his his Uh videos on like, you know, how men are improperly treated in or written in films He doesn't say oh, this isn't a problem that needs to be addressed. He says this is something we need to be fixed It just seems kind of inconsistent, right? Like I don't know how else to interpret it If he was presented with the idea that we need to do more deconstructions of male like leading heroes to show That they they can be flawed and depressed and be brought down He might very well say that's a uh, not a problem that needs fixing. We do have deconstructions We do have great stories about uh older retired heroes sort of things doing different things differently And that they've over corrected and created horrible stories as a result. He may very well say that Um, obviously in regards to women I as far as I can tell he's he's having a reflex response to the idea that we need to create better female characters We always had really good female characters. That's the response to that Yeah, which which it seems like a weird response to give when rustle brand is asking what his two daughters could be watching in current day Well, he gave five examples and then he talked about how it's not a problem is just saying like He gave five examples and then he talked about examples of things that are like before they were born Why is that bad things before they were born? Because that's why rustle brand asked the question again is because last time Can you give examples from the last five years? I think that was the implication when he talked about the age of his daughter. Well drink a could but I don't think he's clearly He's rustle brand is very clearly trying to ask about the current landscape of films right and and so it's weird It's weird to give old examples from before that they're they're born and then also say It's a problem that doesn't need to be corrected because of those examples like it's it's not really But then if that is your position And you believe that's the most reasonable interpretation Then you have to have as part of drinker's position that we don't need any more female characters that are well written And you must not think any of them are very good these days, which we know is not true He's already praised arcane. I don't I don't think that that's necessarily part of his How can he how can you maintain that? He thinks that we don't need any more female characters and I can name all the best ones from ages ago because all the New ones are shit, but simultaneously promotes the ones that are good today He I didn't I didn't say that he said that there doesn't need to be any more female characters I said that he's arguing against people that are making those efforts Right because a lot of his criticisms is against people making those efforts whether they're Well placed or not and when he says when when the phrasing is They're trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist in the first place You know a normal I don't know if the word normal is correct here a different person with a with The perspectives that you're saying he has would say the problem does exist Here's how you fix it, but he'd said the problem doesn't exist. No, the problem. I agree with him the problem doesn't exist If the problem has stated is women need more representative characters that are in depth and detailed I would say yeah, sure. We all do And if they said well, yeah, but we don't have any as women I'd be like you have a lot But that that's not what they said and this is exactly what I was saying in the video Is that if the if the if we were responding to Jennifer Lawrence saying there have been none Then yes, this is this is exactly what he would say and it's a perfectly acceptable response But that's that's not what he was asked he was asked About the future about about the current landscape of films and how to reconcile that without like having the whole political Vogue or whatever issues he's having with how they're being represented You know We're it's it's like two different questions and two different answers And we're kind of like interchanging which ones we think are being Asked or answered so I don't know if we're gonna I don't know if we're gonna wind up agreeing on this one, but I hope you understand where I'm coming from at the very least Do you think if Russell brand didn't uh, depending on what he was looking for he wouldn't accept those answers If it wasn't something that he was looking for or approved of can you sorry, can you repeat that question? I get if Russell brand wanted particular examples and drinker gave his examples Wouldn't Russell brand say no, no, no. I mean these kinds of examples instead wouldn't he say no No, because he's he's he's one of the least Confrontational interviewers ever first of all and second it did seem like like the the extent of his confrontation Was him bringing this back because he like I don't I don't know if we're gonna agree that he was asking the exact same question earlier But you know essentially both times he was trying to Get advice on uh media for his young daughters to watch in this current landscape of films and trying to reconcile that with his uh perspectives on wokeness and perspectives on inclusion and all that stuff Right, so that that is him like pushing back in a way because he was unsatisfied with the Uh sarah connor and ripply examples. He I think he was genuinely asking like hey What is something that you would approve of? What is something? you know like That that I could show my young daughters and That's not to say that something doesn't exist. I don't know the age rating on arcane if it would be appropriate for them or whatever But like it is a weird way to answer that question by And I mean it's a problem that doesn't really intimidate because I because I I don't think he would would say that about male characters Right, I don't think like if they were talking about like hey male characters were written well in the 80s and 90s They're written terribly today. I don't think he's going to go. Oh, it's a problem that doesn't need fixing They're trying to solve a problem that you're like he's it seems like he's actively asking for the problem to be fixed when it comes to males If the problem as stated is women need more better written characters He would want to cross it out and say we need all not just women and in fact There's no relevance to say that women need it any more than men need it any more than any other particular persuasion across fucking I want more alien characters that are gray or robots Like I seriously think that that that's the the tangle here is the drinker is not at all implying That like people who want more female characters who are well written need to shut up because we have plenty already He's saying like we need to do great shit for everybody. What do you mean? And we already know how That's a little exaggerative to I was trying to be careful with my phrasing I think that's a little exaggerative what what my position was um That he's essentially arguing against the people making those efforts Not necessarily that you know There shouldn't be any more female characters and they need to shut up. But that's the thing, right? Russell highlights those people with those efforts and drinkers saying they're using shit tools when we've got the tools already We know exactly what to do I wish he said that but that is what he's saying To With other words like he remember he's he started talking about how They don't write characters with flaws. They don't write them defeating adversity and you were saying, okay Yeah, that's that doesn't that doesn't mean you've got a guaranteed good character There are other ways to write them but that that is a broad good way to write characters That's that's what he followed up with that that wasn't that wasn't Hmm. That was all connected. That's what he's talking about with writing good characters. Not just females Okay I just don't um, what question would you ask him if he was here right now to get clarification? Yo, how come I never see you drinking in your videos? What the fuck? That's because he's already drunk No Yeah, I was genuinely curious about his clarification for Why he seems to imply that because There are no Stars anymore if we're to accept that Why that's a bad thing because it's it it seems to come with that implication and I that was never answered in this Video and I've seen other people say it and I I've never seen like a proper answer for that So that would be one thing I'd ask about um I'm also in relation to this pot In relation to this part, I mean like I'm I don't I don't know what I possibly could ask him because I feel like with my criticisms being made whether or not he uh Had the intentions of saying what you were saying Uh, when he said it like it seems like a pretty easy save, right? So I don't know what I don't know if I would trust what What the answer would be at that point You understand this so there's nothing that could be done at that point then Well, I don't have a window into his soul, right? I'm I can only Know but um, obviously I trust the answers you're giving me about your perspective I don't assume that you're probably saying a lot of stuff to look better Mm-hmm. I mean like It I don't think that it's as How do I phrase this I don't think that When people do those sorts of things I kind of touched on this earlier that it's uh, necessarily all intentional or conscious I think that a lot of people do those sorts of things And then I don't know if unconscious or sub subconscious. I guess is the right term in kind of a subconscious way, you know people are statistics people are You know, we're all subject to these weird biases and these weird behaviors these weird mental phenomenons And I think that it's very possible that a person in his position Could give an answer to something And kind of think that it makes sense at the time But it's not really a strong position or something that he's like actually thought about super strong like his whole answer to uh The sound of freedom like his immediate response is like I don't I question the morals of people that are Saying bad things about this movie that they don't want you to see it because About the subject that that it is I feel I feel like if if this was if he was Asked that question for the first time not on russell brand but in this podcast And I said and there was someone there to challenge him on that whether it would be you or me and being like wait Are you serious like you I'm sure he would be like, oh no. Yeah, actually you're right You know like whether or not that's like, uh, I'm not trying to say like ooh to make people like him better but I think that there's certain things that Normal it's a normal human thing to say something and then be like, okay. Yeah, you're right. That didn't make sense I did it fucking 10 times or however many times during this whole conversation, right? I'm good faith. I'm Open to having my mind changed. I'm open to discussion and I'm introspective, right? So I would I would hope that the rest of the world is too uh, but that doesn't you know, I wasn't necessarily implying like it's some sort of uh Malicious like ooh, I'm gonna hide what my real opinion is right? I'm just saying what he said was dumb and that he might uh come He might also agree It was dumb and it's also a normal human thing To to try and pretend like what you said was not actually what you said and that doesn't mean you're a bad person Uh, but you know, I would say that's just most people that that's a thing that people do So who knows I I could be over psychoanalyzing. I don't know but that that's Part of how I feel I guess Uh being more familiar with his work, of course I would just say he's got a big investment of writing male and female well. He's very into it and uh Obviously hates a lot of the dynamics that get promoted as an improvement upon older eras But you know with all of that context, I can't read this any other way I just think that he's Lamenting at the fact that they think they're right in better characters when they've had the tools to do So this whole time and they don't use them or rather they don't feel inspired by them to create The aspects of those characters that really do endear people toward them as opposed to Having characters like one of the common ones in in captain marvel Who best friend just walks up to her and says you are powerful. You're smart. You're funny You are always the best in the class you you achieve so much and you know I use you are so fucking great and it's like the fuck she's like she's looking at the camera Is that kind of writing where she's like what a shame that we can't uh show it with action instead Yeah, I don't I don't know if like listing any number of like Bad current writing is it's what's what I'm trying to argue is in his head when he's saying these things. That's what he's thinking about Yeah, that's a very noble interpretation and I'm glad you're sticking up for your buddy Um, and I don't you know, I'm just trying my best to be honest about How I feel and the at the same time trying not to Be You know shitty I guess so Like I get it. I get it. I understand your perspective I understand it. I understand it, but like man It's it's not it's not that like women existing and being more represented in media It's not an attack on men. It's not an attack on men And even though some people write it to be as an attack on men and even though some writers It's clear like oh Like this person just had a bad experience with men and they think that like all men are evil because they had Three dates with men and they were all shit or whatever like those people exist and those people write movies But like seeing more women in movies is not like this it's it's not it's To claim that like This is not this is not a thing that anyone should be concerned about if I were women I would see myself represented all the time name five movies in the past 20 years Three of which are side characters like if I were a woman growing up in the 1990s If I was if I was a woman aged one in 1991, I would just watch Aliens Ripley. I would just watch the terminator movie with sarah conard. I would see myself represented like Okay, I get it like it doesn't have to matter this much to every single person. I'm a fucking gay furry I don't see myself represented anywhere. I'm the pioneer of seeing myself represented places I'm doing that shit for other people. I get it You don't see yourself represented anywhere Where Well anywhere implies anywhere Like I guess movies more specifically Well, that's a and like mainstream culture Yeah, like do you do you not see yourself represented in movies or anything like that? No, no. All right. No, not at all actually one movie radio All right, I can't tell you which one Fair enough I think what's being appealed to is just fundamental characteristics that you find endearing because you consider them important to yourself as well beyond gay furry Oh, I agree, but I'm that that's a that's a it's not to say that Oh, if there's a gay furry in a movie then I see myself represented I was just arguing, you know On the same terms as people talking about how white people, you know, see themselves represented or black people see themselves represented I agree that, you know, there are different variations and different arbitrary Labels we can give ourselves to categorize how we feel represented Um, and I wasn't to say, you know, I'm not I'm not saying like oh, yeah, then therefore I would feel myself represented If I see a gay furry, I'm just saying, you know By by those standards that a lot of other people seem to apply I don't see that Okay, right But to claim that like oh the people that want to see themselves Represented in that way like oh, yeah, they already had it with Ripley with Ripley and Sarah Connor And that's it and those are the only examples that you're ever going to name and then some side characters like like that's just a Hosh in terms of representing his point of view That's pretty it's exaggerative. Yes It's hyperbolic You got to understand at least where they're coming from even if you think that that's something that they shouldn't like be concerned about You should at least say that on their terms, right? You should at least say that on their terms But you're acting as if like they don't even have an argument which is like crazy It works that's the problem. What about the analytic tool? I only know because I saw it in rick and moe where they say like an analysis of a feminist a movie from a feminist perspective Are there two female characters that have names that are talking about something other than a man beck del test? Fucking sucks beck del test is bullshit. I don't even think women talking passes the beck del test The entire movie they're talking to a dude and they're they're talking about what other dudes have done to them So it doesn't even pass the beck del test beck del test is a bunch of bullshit discard that shit immediately Even if you're a feminist Don't you think That literally does sound like something for chan would do At this point, but I think I think it's existed a lot longer than That became But yeah That's full chan get up to a lot crazy things good uh Russell brand the beck del test was created before he was an actor, right? Before he was even even like popular in movies in 2008 or whatever, right? Why do you think it was a four chan thing? That's so funny. It was created by a woman, but It was meant to put fun at like the feminist critique of of movies and stuff So it was never meant to be taken seriously But it's become like the benchmark. I just I just think it's funny that he thinks that or that he thinks that it's a possibility As it like as a person that used to work in filmmaking I find it amusing at how credible it is that he thinks that I don't uh, I don't even know when I first heard of it, but uh, I wouldn't have any gas in exactly its origin, you know I've probably heard about it and like maybe within The last five years is when I heard about it And I think it was because you know feminism was a big there thing back in, you know, 2013 2016 kind of years And that's I think when I first heard it so Makes sense to me someone might think it's something very recent like an international I could buy it. Um, Yeah, I could buy that. I know it's not though And so, you know, it's it's more like Yeah He would mention a lot of animated characters if he had his full list But you just went with ones that came to his head first, which doesn't surprise you right alien terminator and indiana jones like Some of his favorite movies of all time mm-hmm How do you square that up? I suppose part of the reason is like it depends what genre of movie you want to look at and And uh, how mainstream you want to go because the biggest movies at the box office tend to be Action movies they tend to be spicier movies all those kind of things, but they're generally very male-oriented movies And so the natural result is you tend to get a man in the league because that's what that's what guys look for But I agree for other stuff. It's just you just have to go into different genres. It could be dramas It could be it could be romance. It could be historical epics whatever you want to be Um, there's plenty of movies with characters like that in it. They're just not the big blockbusters Get it. Hey, I get it because what it is is it's not like, hey, we really love white men It's economic it's economic like just these movies will sell well I agree to a certain extent in the same way that I said earlier like You know, I was kind of being a bit facetious like women are the majority population You know, I said anything political you can't complain about because you're voting on it I don't mean that to a literal degree But like you can't complain about like women not being in politics if you don't vote for women in politics Like you're the majority vote You're the majority vote like vote for more women If every woman voted for women didn't you'd have women in politics? Like why why honestly? Why are there mostly men in politics? Why women are the majority population? You have the majority vote It is a slight majority I literally don't get it like I like You can't blame men for that shit. You got to blame women for that shit because women are the majority vote like I I don't know Maybe this won't get me canceled or some shit. I don't know. I need to organize I'm trying to reconcile. I just I don't usually like this much women hate on the podcast, but we'll allow it for the guest It's okay. Yep. Don't worry. This is a safe harbor. You can come here and hate on women as much as you want if you need to Oh, he's like, oh finally I can go on e-fap e-fap and drop this charade. I could be myself Because they all hate each other. Yay of it all, you know, like I'm trying to reconcile with the population But to some degree you have to like You know blame what is popular on what is being consumed, right? So if if there's You know a certain amount of things being represented in media You have to blame who is consuming the media in the same way In the same way and I'm gonna make an argument against the critical drinker here in the same way that We saw mostly male white dominated films in the 80s in the same way that we are now seeing A bit more representation. We are seeing a bit more less white less male Represented leads in films and they're doing successful fucking parasite was hugely successful everything everywhere all at once was an indie film Basically a 24 small production film, you know, maybe not technically indie Um, but like, you know, it wasn't like a big gigantic studio movie like Christopher Nolan Warner Brothers, whatever like Everybody fucking saw it like everybody fucking saw it like if you didn't like you What are you even doing talking about movies or even listening to me talking about movies, right? The landscape is changing and that's not necessarily a bad thing and so you look at films like You know, I I think that you know, you see mauler like in the background here Mauler has had the critical And I think they relate to each other a lot in certain ways. I think that people um Treat mauler as kind of like this weird like kind of boogeyman where like Sure, maybe he agrees with the critical drinker on some things Maybe he agrees with me answering things like I don't think that he's necessarily like this caricature of like everything that's wrong with like Film criticism or I appreciate it. I guess, um, I think you say not necessarily It's like maybe there's a small chance I phrase myself very carefully on everything I say. I I very if you hear me making like a Absolutist statement that is that is very not Not representative of things I usually say I I make I make sure to add nuance to a lot of things that I say That's a normal thing objectivism or like Please don't connect objectivism to me. That's not we're not I'm not the one who started that. I'm just I'm saying that it's not Good Objectivism is just because that's the iron rand thing Yeah, just so we're clear I think that a lot of people like treat him as like this weird kind of boogeyman, right? um You look at his perspectives on films like he loved everything everywhere all at once like there are films that break out that like Connect with everybody regardless of like who the race or gender of the main character is because it's like A great film that connects with people and I can understand, you know, like being in that perspective or Being the critical drinker, you know, like you're used to this type of thing that has been presented to you your entire life And you're looking for a reason to justify and understand why you don't like this new type of thing And the reason isn't just oh, you're racist or you're oh, you're sexist It could just be it's new right like that's most old people That's most people that just grow old You know, but also because I'm young and then you're old and you don't like things that are new And that's like the definition of conservative and I was right this is a Very valid line of understanding for why people may come to their conclusions, but Don't know that I just don't think it applies to drinker. He's gonna tell you like he He pursues a lot of uh All kinds of things not he wouldn't he wouldn't like hesitate being like oh asian led. I don't know. Maybe I'll watch it I guess you well, but Do you do you think that there's any shred of a possibility that like part Of him can feel that way like do you feel like it's like an unconscious bias representative of any Any well sure. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm rarely talking about conscious biases I think that most of those biases are a part of the problem with that one is the I'm just gonna go full all or nothing Like I guess maybe it applies to all of us in some way or the We should just stick to whatever, you know, we see people do I think that it does apply to all of us in some way Um And I think that it's important to try and be introspective and try to fight that part of yourself if you do notice it Uh influencing you in that way But yeah, I feel I feel like it does exist for a lot of people and I'm just trying to Be more conscious of and spread the message of My perspective that we shouldn't be uh just scared of things because they're new and also like You know a lot of people that exist Uh That watched everything everywhere all at once or watched parasite like These films were able to exist in this culture because it's getting more normalized if it was literally just like There's only been white people in movies. It like 100 with no exceptions And then that movie shows up like that would be incredibly intimidating for a lot of people, right? It's because different people being represented is taking up a bit more of the pie That these great films are able to exist in this landscape and people are watching them and they're being successful I think trying to think of even when I was super young if I was like of a position where I'd be like non-western film I don't know about this Like I've got some kind of a vision to it. I don't think I've ever felt that way not to say I don't you know, there's gonna be people who do I suppose in the same way Well, yeah, I was going to say in the same people can't do subtitles four by three or black and white Like that's because of subtitles, right? Not because of well, yeah, these biases that relate to like Don't want to watch a foreign film those far at it. I'd be like, oh damn Okay, I don't feel like I come across that very much at all But I guess you're saying it wouldn't be over These are things that are a clicking and moving in the background over time Yeah, we're all we're all a part of a greater Machine, you know if we want to call it that we're all We're all individuals that make up a whole we're all statistics and You know, we live life as individuals, but really we're statistics and so yeah Tism that's the definition of just being somebody who's not progressive is like, hey Things were the way I wanted them to be and I think that that was safe And I don't like things that are changing even though that's progress, right? That's all they don't care. They don't care all like the bud light thing They don't care if you're blue collar. They don't care if you're trans. They don't give a shit They just want to sell you bud light. So it's the same thing with movies. So maybe this is what perhaps This is a question like maybe what offend you. It's like they still want their cake of indiana jones Luke's guy walker I didn't catch that the first time they just want to sell you bud light That's a very funny thing for a wrestle brand to say. Well, he's talking about like how It doesn't matter what they're out. They thought eventually the bottom line is the bottom like they just want to make money I didn't catch exactly what his point was. I don't I'm not sure I thought that's what he was saying. He doesn't the because it's called pink capitalism, right? Would they pretend to care about issues? They're just trying to sell stuff Yeah I agree that it's kind of lame to try and take these like, you know In indiana jones 4 they were trying to like Be like, oh shia labuff is the new guy And then he got canceled and then they were like he actually died in the next movie We have like bill and ted being like the two girls. I guess one of them is non-binary. I didn't know when I made my review I don't know You know, you have the two main characters from that one. It was bill and ted's third movie was fucking awful I uh I watched them all in a big row the three of them. It was quite a drop in quality with that third one Oh, we're continuing the franchise. Did they even have another movie planned? Like I don't fucking know like There's there's like a bit of a trend to be like, oh, we're passing the torch. I get that I get understanding That and I get recognizing that but let's see where he goes with that So Indiana Jones being a great example or Luke Skywalker, for example characters that you've really come to know would love and then they what they'll do is present them as old men who are Sad and lonely. They've given up on life. They are broken down and they're kind of effect now on the Well, what do you want the main actors to do what like do you want Harrison Ford to be like? Oh, I'm such a very young energetic young man like wall is going on What's happening here? He's he's he's commenting on the representation of beloved character Is turning into something that he doesn't like um, my argument is that it's less to do with Like it it's not necessarily to do with like a oh, men can't be represented in this way like he has a video where he's like talking about Um, how they're trying to like destroy your heroes or something, right? Um, I think that it is also very much just a byproduct of the fact that They're keeping they're continuing to use these main actors to the point where they're in their fucking 80s Like I don't know how else you're gonna fucking write them, right? It's more it's more of an issue that we're trying to squeeze every last fucking piece of meat juice out of their dangles You don't think that there's any other way they could write these characters if they're old then humiliating and Dragging them down and shit and all over them. There's there's no it's it's either like come on Okay, so hold on hold on so we're there's the example that was talked about before he answered this question was Indiana Jones five Yeah, that wasn't really the whole movie that was like the intro to the whole movie It was literally like this. I don't know if all of you watched it, but He set it up and he was like you dang kids and he like yelled out the window the rest of the movie He was doing shit like maybe once he complained about his back or something, but like he was He wasn't like replaced. He literally didn't he wanted to fucking die. He wanted to die. Yeah He wanted to die by the end of it. Do you want to know? No, when he talks about wanting to die at the end He's referring to his current state of life Like throughout the his era in life is that nobody likes him He has nothing to gain. He wasn't even necessarily wanting to I thought he wanted to stay because he like it's his life's work To have studied that period in time So he was okay with the consequence of dying while he was there but not necessarily if you remember when he returns That he would die He says like why why am I still alive? Who am I alive for like he basically Does he got hit hurt remember? Yeah, he he absolutely wanted to die and he saw that the fact that he was had a bullet wound And he could just watch history unfold is his opportunity to have a death He could actually vaguely enjoy instead of having to be dragged back to life I mean That was the movie. It was horrible Yeah, the the majority the majority of the movie is not like presenting him as like a like a piece of shit or anything like that I I don't I don't even know if I'll agree with how we're framing how he's being presented at the beginning and end But like those are the examples is just like well at the beginning of the film and the and he's a Go ahead Do you remember how when we get to the school slash the university like his students find him boring and they don't care about the subject at all Indiana Jones Yeah, he Commentary about Is that I don't that's a that's a very interesting perspective because I don't consider Personally, I don't consider that to be like a condemnation of him as a character I just consider that as like an attempt at like, I don't know like comedy or like just him showing how People don't relate to him. Like I don't know. I don't know if it's I don't know if I agree that it's like a part of a larger cultural Issue for in the first movie students seem to really like him way one of the students thought he was hot Yeah, he's fucking he's 80 years old Yeah, but this is the negative of like like he could Command an audience. Well, so in the third something that he clearly had a passion about Just to sneak out of the university because so many people want to ask him questions about his life and stuff Yes, but when he's this age Nobody gives shit people aren't even showing up and they don't know they haven't paid attention to the course at all To the point where they don't even know the answers to a basic question Yeah Describes the topic is way different than how he describes it in writers I'll say that like even even if I grant you that like his his uh, the way he's represented in the film is like Insulting to the character I think it's I think it's more of an issue of just like the fact that they're using old people and they're creatively Bankrupt and just being like, okay. Well, what what the fuck do we do with this guy? He's old now, right like what how do we incorporate that into the story? You know, they fucking they they did that and like uncharted for you know, like people didn't really Do you remember what do you mean by that? Were they it wasn't he like fucking old and like, uh, I'm too young old for this shit. Like, yeah, wasn't he? Retired for a couple of years There was not enough sort of for the central conflict didn't have anything to do with him being old But mainly had to do with the fact that he was bullshitting a liner About like what he wanted from life and lying to us so that he could vicariously Like he could go off with his brother and go on adventures again Like because he was just Who's insular too self-focused too much of a desire to get the treasure even though he said well, I'm trying to help sam And it's like yeah, I mean you like this don't don't lie. You know, don't bullshit. It's not about him being old Do you do you feel like the central conflict of indiana jones five was about him being old? It's about the word so the the point the film wants to make is that he feels like and he's supported throughout the film that The world is done with him. He hasn't got anything else to offer. He can go But by the end we're supposed to believe through the events that he's got a hell of a lot more to offer and culturally speaking He's incredibly important. I think they failed miserably at making that argument Yeah, I don't know. I just like That wasn't my main takeaway from the film Okay, but it's like a boring action Currently from rumba. Did you just say as well that um, what are they going to do considering how old he is? But also that he is he's okay throughout most of the movies still doing stuff. He's not like he's not pathetic or anything Exactly. I just I don't those two positions It's the worst of both worlds, isn't it you're simultaneously not recognizing his age while also using his age as a justification for This temperament when there are other possibilities and other options at your disposal What i'm saying is that the small amounts of that that they included in the film is because they're they're Lazy writers doing the obvious thing of like, well, he's old. I guess we'll make it about him being old But it even even with that considered it doesn't make up like most of the film, right? It's it's not I I didn't walk away from that film feeling like that's what it was about or that's like The message that I was to get from it. I think even an angle to tell you that's what the film is about the Like the question of what is indiana jones to the world As as like one of the themes in the movie sure, but like the primary thing most of it was just dumb action shit okay So the extended sequences that are about him Talking doing stuff that aren't the action sequences like those still exist and it's a huge part of the film they do um As well like you know, there's so many other options everybody has to do with older characters I I would never want to restrict it to the point where it's like if they're 80 Then you're gonna have to do a story about how they're too old for this sort of thing As opposed to sad and nobody likes them and they're alone Those people recommended like he's still able to walk and vaguely run right So all you need to do is a chris pratt type a son anybody obviously short round was suggested They come in and they do the adventuring portion He's always advisor and you'll get involved here and there with the whip you'll do this down the other story The theme of like is he too old for this? What's what life is worth living anymore? You don't have to have those themes We can talk about there's so many things people go through when they get older And it's fucking annoying that every time we do this with like mainstream studio projects from disney They're like, what if they wanted to kill themselves? Yeah, what if they suck here? Here's a question Is this is this something that has happened in movies other than the new indiana jones and the last jedi? Yes, or are those like like Blade runner We could I'm not familiar enough with blade runner. I'd have to rewatch the new blade runner to get better arguments today I only watched the one time I didn't like it but um They they're kind of It well, I mean there's loads of different examples all over the place, right? Obviously the new james bondy wanted to kill himself essentially by the end. He did kill himself by the end technically Obviously he was still saving people, but it's like, okay, uh nick fury would be another Can we hold this thought? I'm just gonna piss again, but okay. I am interested in this conversation So don't don't keep playing without me. I'll be I'll be back. Sure yep Because I haven't seen the card season one and two but I obviously have I know enough from what people are talking about it And from what I've heard he basically just goes around apologizing and I'm like boo-hoo sorry all and also the federation's Terrible xenophobic awful people now and they think he sucks um If we're talking about specifically the desire to be fucking dead There's going to be a shorter list than the the deconstruction and assassination of like general. Yeah Yeah, like you think that this character Was like, you know, based on when last you saw them You thought that they would be like respected and wiser and better and grown and maybe You know, they're living god for a bit like a happy life or they would be doing something that you'd expect No, actually they suck balls and they're a loser They kind of suck Marvel is an extensive list I mean even with star wars we have an exhaustive but we've got and then there's all sorts of options That people don't even really think about or give a lot of credence to just feel to get burned to do this Because it's definitely not an economy and I would I would hate You know this this idea to to persevere that it's either You know in the unbelievable Un you know just unfathomable action sequences or it's you know them being a loser and wanting to die In fact, I really want this idea for you know older characters to you know who are Still prominent and respectable to be normalized Oh, yeah, this idea that oh, yeah, just because you're old that doesn't mean that you know You just can't like be in films or you can't be an important character or you can't do good things or impart good advice I mean, we saw how they you know treated val kilmer and you know top gun maverick You know, I haven't I haven't even seen him. I know that bit. Hello. Are you aware of that scene? Um, yeah Like yeah Because I guess I guess what I'm this this I guess is this is a common theme um when I when I see Uh, certain aspects or issues or elements of uh film and I guess particular particularly character writing criticized um in a particular way that You know, this might just be because of my own bias and the types of media that I consume. Um, but I see it very like heavily Uh, correlating or at least you know acting in a symbiotic relationship with with this whole sort of like idea of this agency over Um, like we have to make your your male characters Uh, un un relatable. We have to like disparage them in some sort of way like I think it's less of an issue of like Recognizing that that's a thing and more of an issue with I guess trying to Trying to have a conversation about like okay. What is the intent behind that? I don't think it's nefarious and I think that a lot of these conversations wind up as being like they're trying to you know, there's a they and they're trying to uh They're they're trying to make it they're trying to brainwash you into believing these characters were never good in the first place Which I think is actually Very similar to a quote from a critical drinker video that I watched He's saying that they're trying to convince you that those characters were not good in the first place And I think that that's I think that that's kind of like pushing it in terms of like Uh Trying trying to analyze the intent of the writer there. I think that there's other explanations for that that Are probably more reasonable. I think that writers can often be lazy. I don't think when we're talking about You know Beloved characters of a franchise Existing and then growing to the the actors are 80 years old and we're in the fucking nostalgia generation Where they're remaking all these movies and then they do soft reboots and then they want to bring back the old actors Because that's the popular thing to do and everybody's doing it. I think it's just lazy writing I think it's literally just like oh, what do we do in a way that passes the torch In a lot of these films sometimes not sometimes they try to end it I don't know exactly what the fuck they were going for in india and it shows five But in the last jedi, they were definitely trying to do a passing the torch thing there like oh, okay Like, you know, this is not the character you should be caring about I don't know if that's that's a nefarious way to try and make you hate The character that you grew up with Um, I don't know if that's necessarily the goal and I'm I'm not sure I agree that it's as prevalent as as Uh critical drinker or perhaps you as well are making it out to be so the Desire as far as I can tell if it's non malicious is a sense of like ego driven sort of I'm going to make my Mark on the future of this IP and I'm going to deconstruct like deconstruct is the keyword They want to show you what made this person the way they are in culture and the good and bad of that And are they still that person and what does that person mean for the future that I think is a broad understanding actually matches a shit ton of the examples like, um Recently with secret invasion They spend a significant amount of time telling us that all of nick fury's achievements throughout the mcu were not his He took them from other people and he claimed Responsibility for them complete retcon and it's like that seems just completely fucked up and changes everything about him It's like yeah, can you can you say that sorry you need to say what the character did again? I was just hung up on the fact that there's a marvel show. I haven't heard about that I keep getting introduced to them and realizing that they exist Like secret invasion. Sorry. I had a thought I was they argue the very secret All of it like he's supposed to nick fury is the super spy supposed to be Yeah intro. Yeah, okay. Um I've vaguely heard of it Nick fury's known like primarily character wise being incredibly intelligent shrewd and sort of tactical He's going to be the best. He's like the batman sort of thing of the the mcu. He's going to be able to defeat and plan He's got nothing to him except his brain in his gun sort of thing, right? That's kind of character We've got they managed to maintain that relatively in the mcu even though he doesn't have a lot of appearances He's definitely kept up a sense of uh You're gonna you're like he's going to be impressive whatever he ends up doing in the new show They argue a group of aliens needed a place to stay on earth. They were literally like desperate Um And he basically said to them I'll figure out a home for you if you do secret agent stuff for me And that involves collecting dirt on allies to leverage them Defeating people maybe even doing hits sort of thing and getting information on different enemy squads He got all of that and he rose through all of the ranks until he reached the position we meet him in In like iron man And the they have an explicit speech from one of the characters saying like you you motherfucker You took credit for everything we did don't try and rewrite history That sort of thing and it's just another one that fits the mold of like, holy fuck What's the goal here that you've completely rewritten all of his actions to now making him a completely different character It's like well, I think that it's just bad writing and and uh Idiots that are chosen for writing projects not based on their talent, but just nepotism and industry Uh shoulder rubbing and shit. I think that's I honestly think that that's just most of it is just like we we I would like to think that writers wouldn't be so clueless to Uh Not understand how An audience would like to see their favorite characters being treated But fuck it like here's an example. Did you watch uh glass? Like that's m night m night wrote those characters and that is the I could not think of a more unceremonious way to end those characters. I completely agree That entire fucking thing is bullshit like you watch that and you think did you even care about these characters? Like and that's coming from the guy that wrote them I think that that we shouldn't be so naive as to think that it can't just be because There's a lot of writers that are just really bad and not necessarily like sure. I think subconsciously maybe Maybe statistically there could be a higher, you know, some amount of it being like politically motivated or You know, maybe maybe uh ideologically motivated, but I I just don't think that that's the answer and I think it I think the uh I think when we're talking about Film even even just mainstream film. I think I think it's a bit more nuanced than that I I'm happy to I would completely agree that incompetence is absolutely a part of all of these no matter what if we find other motivations As well as other influences that incompetence will always be a part of it But like when approaching an indiana jones 5, I imagine they sat around thinking like what should we make this film about And someone settled on the idea of like, okay, so we'll start with like He's gonna be kind of will bring him down. He's gonna have a couple things going wrong By the end of the movie he's going to find like a new lease on life and it'll end on a really happy note That indiana jones is always going to be needed and necessary and he'll even pick up his hat They'll let the audience know, you know, what he's still out there doing his adventures It's like Okay, and then the incompetence set in and the deconstruction angle of like trying to get more commentary on different things He did in the original films with a new Perspective on it so to speak and it ends up crashing and burning horrifically and it matches a set Unfortunately that I wish would fucking go away Because it's interesting. He said about the 80 years old. I think christopher lee was around 80 when he did count dooku, right? It's like You know, I'm not saying the prequels are basic. I'm just saying that what do they do with him? I'll do one even more recent, right? They brought christopher lee back for the hobbit trilogy And you know the movies aren't good But you know, they were way worse on a second watch. Holy shit. They definitely get worse on rewatch I think that's my highest rating jump From a five to a one. Oh, whoa to a one. Whoa, calm down. Like they're they're better than dialer. They're way better than die No, the fuck no the the Third hobbit movie battle of the five armies. That was pretty bad. Yeah It's the worst disrespectful use of my time ever Oh, you don't review have you have you go videos? I'd way rather watch that than like dial up I got I had the video of me singing in theaters where I was way overly charitable about it Um, and also the second time I watched it was the extended edition, which was just the most cancerous fucking thing Well, the the battle of five armies extended edition is the only lord of the rings movie that has an r rating My god, which is funny one fact which is funny, but then you watch the extended edition of those movies and you're like, what the fuck so Those uh, yeah a bit of a tonal thing But where I was what I would say even though those movie that trilogy is not good There are legitimately good parts of those movies even the third one has legitimately good things in it I don't know what I could say is good about dial of destiny It could have been worse Well, and I thought you could have been worse. You were going with like how they treated chrysophile Uh, despite the fact that that was one of his few remaining acting roles I think before he was unable to act anymore Um, and that's you know significantly worse than Harrison Ford who is still able to run around and Shout and do all kinds of it's just a suggestion that they never had to go down these routes But they often do with a lot of the most beloved characters of all time culturally like Luke Skywalker like Han Solo like Indiana Jones Why why why how many examples are there though like because I well, how many would you need to concede That it's a pattern Whether or not it's a recognizable pattern in the sense that you can point out For however many examples in the past. When did last jedi come out 2017? Yeah something right? We're talking about the past like six years Um, we're going to see more of those examples in this generation simply because we are in the generation of nostalgia bullshit where we're like Oh previous generations of movies didn't bring back old characters, right? They didn't like there was this wasn't really as much of a thing in previous generations of movies. So But considering how often they fumble it like to where it's so a Bizarre consistency with how can you know how badly they do but don't we have comparisons to make though? I don't know if I would say it's a consistency But the previous generation of bringing indiana jones back didn't do this to him like kingdom of the crystal skull He wasn't that old He was older than did try to set it up so that shia labouf would take over it. Yeah, but they also ended it with him saying no They took the hat off him Well remember at the end of kingdom of the crystal skull he married to Marion he You know was happy they kind of left him on a high note. Yeah, and it was the anyway Regardless of whether or not there's some examples of he was 66 by the way filming that Old people being brought back in the 90s Early 2000s or whatever right like there's exit that I'm not saying it never happened But we are in the generation of it happening consistently Of there being old IPs that are revived revamped soft reboots whatever Bring back the old characters the fact that this is constantly happening and and is constantly a thing that is happening Means that it's going to be more likely that we're going to see those characters Disrespected and mishandled. I don't think that it's necessarily like the goal to do that. I think that it's just like a a A byproduct of us having these movies in this generation anyway and the writing just being bad like We brought up bladerunner 2049, which was kind of like a passing the torch sort of thing and harrison ford is like Well, did you watch I've seen it Since it came out and I'm not a fan Not a fan. Yeah, I think I remember having a conversation about this on your thing a while ago but I really I really love that movie and I don't know like I don't know if I could I don't know if I could watch that and attribute it as like we're supposed to Uh, we're supposed to not like this character anymore because they're old and because they're you know I don't know Here's the thing. I just watched The lorex was which was a very bad movie and within the movie within the singular title There's a character who grows old and is like, I can't do anything anymore Like I just think that's such a trope already that just writers who are a bunch of nepo babies in their 20s and 30s Just don't know what old people are like and so they just have to write them in this like, uh, you know like I'm old. Okay, but what about the ones that I think it's I think it's a successful creativity What about the ones that don't choose that direction on the ones that people like so we could go with like Uh, Logan would be one Right that films of deconstruction of wolverine, but people really like it and it doesn't he's old Yeah I'm saying I'm saying people liked it like the obvious Yeah, yeah, but I'm saying that the direction for the character to go and the types of Ideas that they have they at least feel compelled to Bring up as part of the themes of the character. Oh, okay. No, so I'm not shit. They're like, oh the actor's old I thought this was a given. I'm saying that throughout Logan. He's not like pathetic He's not uh being told by all of the characters that he's worthless sort of thing He doesn't want to like Give up on people or whatever the deconstruction is what does wolverine represent? I think that we hold different values in terms of Uh, the social standings or how beloved characters are treated because I don't see those things is too different personally because I don't really feel Generally like attached to any of those characters in like a nostalgic way, but like, you know even I'm trying to think a good of a good example of something where I could feel that same way. Um I just Like you could imagine what it would be to not want these to see these characters constantly You mentioned gloss like that that is close to it, right? I assume Well, yeah, it's like entirely unceremonious. But I don't I don't know I can't watch that and think that They're trying to make me feel disrespected by doing that. I watch that and think wow. I'm nice fucking stupid Yeah, no, but I Take away is is not like what he did to those two characters The narrative of beyond fucked up and and I completely agree with you and the if it were Like like if if M. Night had quotes related to well I wanted to do it to show people that the characters are blah blah blah Like like these things are going to play into it as well, right? Like what what the creators have to say about these sorts of things what ideas to try and represent um This whole era of it, um, there are legacy characters that do return As anomalies that are treated well, um Logan was one I was trying to bring up that people felt like Logan was respected in that film But you know, like uh told me we're going a spider-man They could have brought him in as a depressed disheveled sad peter parker who's lost the will to live But they didn't they made him the mentor Here here's here's what I was trying to say earlier. I feel like even if they did do that with Peter Parker spider-man, which I love I wouldn't feel like personally slighted by that in any way. It would depend on me on execution I didn't feel that way in in a glass either. I just felt like wow, this is bad writing, right? I didn't feel like my I feel like a lot of people Uh very much kind of attached their identities to these characters in in ways and I feel like it can feel like Um, that's an interesting sentence. I feel like it can feel like to a lot of people Um that their experience is being like diminished by having these characters Um Being less respected in in a piece of media whereas like I'm so detached from these characters like even characters that I love like I feel I I feel like this might be pointing towards like more of like a generational sort of like parasocial Uh experience with media, right? I feel like it's perfect to be upset when characters that inspired you would like shout on I wouldn't call it I don't think I'd describe it as parasocial compared to Uh like any mentor in life. I I get what you're saying I don't hold that much of an emotional stake in Uh, even my favorite characters Uh You know being shat on in Later incantations of media or anything like I've always said I've said this a million times people can talk about my favorite movies of all time And say that they're shit. I don't care, right? Like it doesn't really matter like I care about my own experience with it um But yeah, I I I I think that I think we're kind of getting at this here is that I I think there's a lot of people that Relate so closely to these characters and hold them You know such a special place in their heart and I'm not trying to say this in an insulting way But just in a way where I'm trying to understand other perspectives here Uh, I think that there's a lot of people that hold these characters to such an important place in their heart that they feel slighted by How they're represented in in media which which is interesting to me because I I personally just don't feel that way And but now I feel like I'm understanding more about these people anyway Okay, does that make sense? um, sure the the core of this being the you um You were like I'm trying to get back to the video in some way. I think was that was it drinker brought this up as sure Uh with indiana jones and star was a new set. Is it even happening outside of them? And Do you feel as though that's been answered? Say that one more time. Uh, so drinker mentioned indiana jones and star wars is obviously Included in the new set. Is it even happening outside of them? Do you feel you still want examples or? I I mean I've been given examples. I I don't know to what degree I I would consider it to be like valid A cultural issue. Okay, is I I guess what I'm trying to say Obviously the it can be a trend that you're noticing Like I see sometimes I'll see trends that I notice in movies where it's like only four movies have done it But I watch enough movies where I'm like aware of like the inspirations of enough movies where I'm like, okay I see what's starting to happen here or like trailer isms, you know Yeah, yeah, we're like when the inception bomb happened like right after district nine I was like this is becoming a thing that was the second time it happened and then it became a huge thing Right, like I get that you can notice friends, but like if there were five writers it's again Just real quick if there were five writers The one of them did it maliciously one of them did it because he just was skipping through a bunch of character arcs And he landed on old equals wants to die Third one did it because they love the character and they feel like it's perfectly representative where they'd go next That's kind of like ryan johnson with Luke Skywalker. He felt that that was the thing to do and the fourth guy is like Oh, well, I love it when characters do this I just in general So I just want to make this character do it and then the fifth guy literally didn't even write it It was AI who was just that but if all five happened at the same time, it's almost impossible not to see it as a pattern I would imagine that's there even if we don't fully understand the motivations for everybody Sure, sure Pattern pattern recognition is subjective and I will give that yes, you can see that as a pattern I will say that that is that is a noticeable pattern that one that one can notice my issue I guess is I guess Perhaps I am incorrectly attributing this but I my issue is with it being framed as kind of like a a cultural problem Which is kind of what seems to be The the takeaway in this interview, right? Um, for me and I imagine possibly for freeing in rags Not 100% sure we tend to draw all of it back to incompetence Because you can almost do anything that people might hate on paper. Well And so deconstructing all of these characters even if that was their goal Which I'm not necessarily saying it is at the core of it all it can always be attributed to their ineptitude And watching them struggle to try and make whatever point they wanted to make Like um, people are like outraged that nick fury has an arc in that season About overcoming his like bigotry towards aliens as a black man in the show Which is pissing everybody off and it's just like yeah the director was probably like well I'm trying to make a point about how racism is bad and it's like yeah And you've you've you've made it in one of the most like awkward and dumb ass every ways ever You know the incompetence can often explain almost everything But it doesn't change the fact that I wish there was more like I think competence does breed respect for like a character You're dealing with Do you feel like there's any relation between like taking an issue with how beloved characters are treated in later versions of the franchise versus Like talking about how let's say like men are treated in film or like how male characters are written Like do you feel like that's kind of like in the same vein? Um, I don't think so um, because you could theoretically have Yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't I don't see why they would be No, I don't think there's any real connection between the two Other than maybe the people who notice one also notice the other Yeah, I I feel like I'm just trying to be um I'm trying to be fair in the sense that like, um I'm not really the type of person to like care too much about like You know seeing how I'm represented in a film or like seeing how a particular race or gender like when I'm arguing about like women in film Like I'm more or less just saying like Here's what here's what people who are trying to make that change are at least saying right? Here's their argument and you know, like at least engage with it, right? I don't really I don't really care either way in terms of you know, uh, the particular demographics, I don't think but um I don't know. I feel I feel like a lot of the conversation surrounding like culture and injecting that into film Is just so not what I care about in terms of Why I love film, right? I love I love film for the craftsmanship. I sorry the craftsmanship. I love film for the You know the directing the meticulous elements the details the Because I feel like we're similar we're on we're on adjacent roads because when uh, these sorts of things happen it's like the rewrites or the A lot of the time like take black widow. For example, she was very specifically characterized start middle end and the mcu And instead her primary characteristic is that she wanted a family She got taken away from hers the newest version of her They invent a history where she had a family that she completely ditched and then Forgot she kind of had and then reconnected during the events of another mcu film It was like, how did you what is the newest version of her black widow the film? It was uh, is it the oh god I didn't even know that got really It's not good. Um point being The they probably thought well, she cares about family family family will make stories about that and then they end up accidentally fucking Assassinating her because they gave her a bunch of things that she would never have done if those are the values she had So I'm sitting there frustrated that they've ruined the character But also like a fundamental appeal to the artistic merits of storytelling You've completely fucked it like it's you have to respect what they are who they are and what actions they would take So like it's it's like two prongs so to speak like a my investment in the art form And my investment in the character for how much they may or may not mean to me Okay What do you mean? What are you what are you expecting use that as an excuse to say hey They were never that given the first place and then what they'll do is over what? What when was this published this was you this was this was after the new indiana jones, right? Yeah, I didn't get that take away, but we've already discussed. Yeah, right Let's see Yeah, that was that was a release june 30th Like what what the fuck are you talking about? Like I don't think that the new indiana jones movie or like the new a lot of these movies We're saying these characters were never that good in the first place Like you're reaching super hard when like I said that Even if we say that they're disrespected there like the the takeaway of them, you know The implied takeaway of they weren't that good in the first place. That's a very I feel like that's a stretch even if you remember the to agree that the nick fury example I just gave you wouldn't that that would encompass that right? They literally rewrote his history to be shitter than it used to be I I guess so I know you're not as familiar with a lot of stuff. I don't don't watch and don't care But like this is what drinkers referencing. This is what's on his mind. I know I know and this is where the disconnect comes from Music Oh replacement who is stronger than then smarter than them more capable than that doesn't have any other weaknesses And it's like they're trying to okay. He's coming at this from a very star wars based perspective, which nope I'm sorry people who really care about film and people who really care about diversity of film not diversity of races or genders But diversity of like film like the actual You know film diet that you could consume Most people aren't thinking about star wars, but it's clear that you're just thinking about star wars, right? Like what you're describing as star wars. It's one movie. It's one So he's he's talking about a couple of games a few series Obviously all of them are mainstream, but the nonetheless valid especially in the context of mainstream Movie say hey see this guy. Do you really like you're also what happened in star wars multiple times? Talking about luke skywalker. Yeah, do you see what they did to obi one? I watched them, but they they just like they did the Han Solo And then the Han Solo movie No, Han Solo and the force awakens Oh I think you like do you like force awakens like harbour you still you when it came out I was like impressed by the The practical effects. Yeah, I wasn't as jaded by the paint by numbers recreation of episode four That would soon become the standard of of what soft reboots would become So my rating has changed since I've seen it But I I had a positive review when it came out because I was like, oh, this is fine. Let's see where it goes and then Not only did that become like You know wind up being just some of the most annoying tropey obvious bullshit ever over time But what the series ultimately leads to detracts from the original movie for sure, right? Like what I agree If it if that if that's where you're going You didn't even have a plan You have two directors fucking arguing with each other about what the movies are like go fuck your son for the record I enjoyed the force awakens when I first saw it, but um, yeah when time went on it crumbled apart Yeah, what other movie could you possibly be talking about right now? We've got a new and improved version here. So you have to like them even more knife. Of course you do because that's how you You're talking about luke scott. What other movie could you possibly be talking about where it's like? Oh, yeah, we've created a new female character and not only have we replaced so about this like are you familiar with the mcu's um It's very odd like in phase four and five we've had a Like what I don't even know what the actual number would be but to not exaggerate It's like a 300 increase in female characters Which isn't a problem in of itself when they're all written like shit And a lot of them All written like shit a lot of them will introduce themselves in Comparison with the established male version of whatever character it is So, you know with Thor we had girl Thor with ant man You have his daughter in in quantum mania even though we already had wasps I don't know whatever black widow even black widow Her sister is introduced as the replacement black widow and she is a lot better than black widow. She didn't make black widow's mistakes Loki silvi is the girl counterpart to him and she Like it's better than him in every single way. It's embarrassing and weird. Um Obviously, I assume you've heard about hulk and she hulk some of the most famous clips from They're explaining her trauma is more something that she's dealt with than he has I'm definitely aware of it and actively avoided it. Yes. Yeah Um and then like dr. Strange. He's you got America is sort of taken over as the she's the one that Takes the final action. She was annoying. Um, and it's unfortunate because her name America or what? Yeah, chavez. Um, and they don't give her America chavez. Yeah, they don't give her a character They just give her she is girl who by the end of the film She's scared and then he says you can do it and then she does it She was she had it all along And so many of these fucking characters ox that they had it all along instead of actually having to like fight for it Ridiculous Would you say that because of how marvel writes its female characters that the marvel cinematic universe is sexist against women? Yes, I think you could ironically make a pretty yeah, you could Yeah, it's really it's really kind of shit because the mcu had good female characters and it Invented shit new ones or it ruined the good ones that we had To the point where i'm struggling to think what good female characters we have left When you just knock female out of that what good characters that we have left what good characters period but But you know to I guess to be topical I'm trying to think of you know, who were the non-shit female characters we've got. Um, I know cosmo Oh cosmo. Yeah, that's true cosmo is great. I like cosmo. There you go So, uh Are we are we in agreeance that the sony marvel is doing better than marvel marvel right now? You mean venom venom too mobius and I don't know quite a verse Oh, okay. That's yes. Yes. I'm gonna say yes I'm gonna because you got you got that and then you got technically no way home belongs more so to Sony than it does marvel, right? So and that was like a Far more redeemable entry in phase four and five But yeah, yeah, I guess I would concede that yeah Isn't that funny? It is kind of yeah, but I mean it is That we would get there. Well, who's is it more or less funny than dreamworks taking over pixar in terms of oh, it's just about to say that I mean, I was hating pixar before it was cool Where did you start hitting pixar which movie? Toy story three Oh interesting choice a little earlier than most Yeah Well, it's them with a female, but we're gonna say that the old male version is bad What other movie could you possibly can we can I literally can I get some suggestions in the chat? I don't want to just be like talking out my ass From my limited perspective of like me watching art house movies, you know and like me watching some marvel movies and some Star Wars movies like he's talking about this as if this is like mainstream This is what every movie is doing and he's literally just talking about star wars Right is this not what's happening like he's literally only talking about star wars here and he's not saying it Attacking and deconstructing the archetypes that they resent but rely on is that good bit of made-up analysis? What yeah, what they want to do is please somebody prove it wrong new characters But it's like trying to take a character that uh, you know, you've bonded with over a period of years If not decades that you grew up with and stuff like indiana jones being a great example Or skywalker for example, um characters that you've really come to know and love He says for example present them as old but he's only talking about that right then who are well He's not talking about star wars talking about indian and jones Money's as we've said these loads drinker would give you a list if you really wanted them Like did you watch um gen not genesis dark fate? No, no So do you know like dark fate opens with Um, another arnie getting sent back and he just shotguns jon connor to death I just and then every every time you guys talk I'm sorry to interrupt every time you guys talk about a movie that you've seen that I haven't seen that you're like ruined your life I just feel bad It's not No, no this this is I want to make you sound awful Like I feel like I'm making the right decisions by just not considering them things that I have to watch the more Like I'm just doing a good job. You know like the reason came to my head is because of what I feel are gonna be good It's because of what drinker just said I feel like if I if I just say this to you it'll make you laugh, right? So Yeah, I couldn't imagine new terminator. I would want to watch that movie new terminator big budget Oh my god, james Cameron approves of it. Here we go. So exciting opens up jon connor is immediately killed and then in the future Sarah connor has to defend a new girl who is apparently going to be the the one to hold You know to carry the the new savior of humanity because yes, skynet was defeated Unfortunately in the ruins of skynet legion rises up Which is another self-aware ai that's going to take over the world with robots and nukes And then at the end of the film They're like actually you're not gonna have a kid or a son or a girl or whatever That's gonna lead the world You're going to lead it because that's that you know and they make this like big thing about how Sarah connor kind of hates that she wasn't valued as an individual but instead the carrier of jon connor, which is It's just like did you surgically do this? Why the hell did you write all of that that way? That's something the most annoying and lame thing you could give terminator fans So they're like kind of like disparaging this air connor character They what i'm getting at is like they actually assassinate literally mr. Mr. connor and then they make her Completely alternate to what her character would be they erase and undo like skynet But then they replace it with something called legion that's exactly the fucking same It's like the worst thing ever and it's like why why did you do all of this? You you told the same story much worse, but with a girl instead of a guy. What's what's the idea? What are you doing? I think that I think that a lot of the motivations when it comes to Uh these terrible writing decisions are based on them thinking that they're going to have a successful film that they can Uh make into a franchise right like the mummy was supposed to be the start of the dark universe Perhaps if the you know new bill and ted were even more massively successful than we would have Those two other characters continuing to make films right now or whatever Uh, I think that I think that a lot of the bad writing comes from them preemptively trying to set things up and being like Well, yeah, why would we care about the old characters because we're trying to start this new shit and the writers are just so stupid and ignorant About why anybody would want to see these old characters presented positively, right? So Yeah, again, I I I I think I think I'll concede on it being a thing that happens but The intention is what I take issue. Okay I'm smarter than them more capable than them doesn't have any other weaknesses And it's like they're trying to say hey see this guy that you really liked well We've got a new and improved version here. So you have to like them even more now. You say luke skywalker as an example What's what's any other example? Of course you do because that's how human emotions work. No, it's not people don't think that way And so the more you try and slot these like fake pod people replacements in Like supplement these classic characters that we loved uh, the more people reject it And that's why indiana jones is fucking tanking at the box office Did indiana jones do that like it kept the same main character It didn't replace it with a female character and say indiana jones is bad I don't know if you're aware, but kathleen kennedy talked about how uh, helen assure could very well take over For the franchise at this point as a replacement indiana jones in her own franchise But obviously that's not gonna happen now because the film tanked Yeah, it was weird because like Even I don't even know if I would argue that the film itself implied that right? Like the only reason we're saying that is because kathleen kennedy's saying that right? Um, no that's to confirm that was a goal that was that there was a passing of the torch element to it, right? She's she's friends with basically everybody she pulls Yeah, if they were going to make another movie if they were gonna make another movie like if if diala destiny did well Then yeah, I don't think we'd see harrison ford in it. It would be all in a shot taking over Which is probably Like how well did crystal skull do right? Was that made a lot of money? It was very financially successful Yeah, made like 800 million dollars Damn Yeah, this one made like that and it cost this one this one I think Yeah, I think in order to And in order to break even I think it had to make just shy of 600 million so yeah And even then that ain't great The uh, yeah, I think it's safe I think it's safe to say that uh, we will probably not see another indiana jones movie If ever in Okay, okay somebody Clip it reg yeah, I will yeah, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, you don't even know your clip Reg said we will probably not see Oh, we will probably will probably not see absolutely got him exposed to not see He did it. It came out. It's I is a Freudian if that will probably not see we'll never recover And probably you you literally just you literally had this entire tirade saying like hey They're trying to do this thing. We're like they're replacing it with women characters and saying that the male characters are bad This is why indiana jones is tanking at the box office indiana jones didn't do that This movie costs 300 billion dollars to make this is a plethora reasons why that movie tanked So much stuff to talk about in terms of like time of release the choice of story to tell the way it was marketed She-hawk that's a very funny example. I didn't watch that show Like this line from sinfield reminds me of you there's an episode of sinfield where he's dentist converts the judeiism That's that's a that's very much a spin-off made for a uh streaming service Sinfield I'm not gonna argue that that's a good show. I've never seen it. It looks like shit. You'd hate it I uh, I saw the trailer And I was like Nope. Yeah, so they eat a lot of 14. I guess I'm sexist now. Oh, yeah And uh, he's and so I felt rabbi says to sign up and does this offend you as a Jew? And he says no it offends me as a comedian. Well, that's what's offensive about it So he's always like that you're offended as a cineast and as a cinephile Cineast I love that word. That's on my poster over here. Wait, what is what is that a word? It's apparently a fucking word. I don't know if it's like so there I have a poster that says the ultimate bucket list for the cineast And it's like I don't know if it's like a german word like I don't know what's going on I've never heard that word before. I know i'm scratching them off as a It's a scratch-off poster. You know, it's really funny. It's such it's so scuffed. It's obviously one of these like like just Made to make money and like whoever made this doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about There's a joke or two that was listed before there was ever a joke or two announced Oh, wow And there's some there's some movies that are there twice and like the wrong year or the wrong director It's kind of funny. So I'm trying to scratch them off as time goes by but We're gonna cross off some movies Movies that you adore and love are being dismantled and deconstructed in ways that's clumsy and not even awfully done But there could be a version or something important to say about like that kind of hate for their own audience Because I think this has broader social connotations I think the move critical drinker if you're watching this Can you please do like an entire live stream like reacting to what he doesn't need to We did it. It's fine Yeah, he's uh, where is he right now out of a matzuri? I think Sorry, I think he's he's currently in anime matzuri. I don't know that's the Convention of some kind. I know Oh, yeah Okay, here's my question. Did it so I saw his uh youtube post And he had his drink like this Did it look to anyone else like he was like like moving his bicep up with his other finger or was that just in my mind? I have no clue No clue. Yeah, I also when you said like this, I can't see you either, but oh, yeah I'm showing face cam to everybody about you. I'm sorry. It's okay I just realized that I don't want you to miss like some of the things that I'm asking you about like I want you like I'm really hoping like That some of these things will be addressed You know in some sort of substantive way like I'm not trying to start drama I'm not saying like oh you have to respond to me. Otherwise you're pussy. Like I don't believe in that shit I don't believe in that. I really don't I do you don't have to respond to me But if you are going to respond to me like can you do like a full? You know like life, you know, it doesn't have to be life. Do you believe that anakasperian should debate vosh? Uh Got him It'll be an e-fap for the ages like a full like hey if I'm saying I would love to hear your opinion on this like you you Satisfy that part of my brain or something. I don't know like you don't have to As we've seen like you know don't no don't send it to critical Don't harass anybody about this. Don't I I am not one of those people where I want you to send people Shit about this. No, I am not one of those people No Of brexit is the sense that people feel like the professional and media class hate them and don't do not represent them Whether that's politically or through the cultural content they provide This is something I talked about sort of like for a while with uh the film make adam curse who I very much admire Something I've learned more and more about the time Or is that another Oh, man, I just don't think we have the hours for you know because you I was just I If you have like a one sentence review of brexit how it went. I just I don't know like what's the first word you think of when you think brexit Do you think awesome or do you think bad? I when it comes to brexit, I hope everyone had a good time Yeah, they should open a theme park We'll brexit. Okay Sting documentary filmmaker Um, it's interesting to hear him referenced by Russell brand, but yeah, I'm not surprised I guess a professional class in journalism Now that don't speak respectfully of this for what the better is working class people working class culture There's a kind of out of business or an antipathy I don't know if the critical drinker knows who adam kurtis is though in loathing towards and they don't like working class people In america blue collar people there's a kind of condescension and a snobbery and it seems like in a sense This is one of the narratives that's playing our film Um, I also want to mention like in south park when they did and that was with the last indiana jones movie You know like where they went like they had i think kyle coming out of a movie for a puke Oh my god, what did they do to indy? You know and like what about the imagination land one where they were like, um, these characters are more real to you Like, you know, we've reached jesus and i know i'm religious it turns out I think he might be an atheist but i believe in god and all sorts of stuff But like they sound like that these characters are more real to you Luke's guy because more I don't know When you say like naming fun fictional characters like cheese Why would you say that? He caught himself and remembered he he caught himself and remembered that uh his audience wants to hear that he's not Yeah They've been vessels for your own personal development and your own understanding of your own imagination Darkness and your aspirations and to say Imagination Is our recommendation to watch imagination land episodes one two and three, isn't it? I was referencing the show wonder shows I'm referencing the imagination song the superior media to whatever you were talking about Have you seen okay, hold on. Have you seen what wait? Wait. What's up? Have you seen wonder shows? No, I don't think so Fucking watch wonder shows and I am recommending that to you all specifically it's Is that before after the hundreds of beavers Well, you're not going to be able to watch hundreds of beavers until like maybe winter so before It is winter. What are you talking about? Have you seen have you seen another? So pffr is responsible for Xavier renegade angel, which is oh, yeah popular one They did wonder shows and before that They did the heart she hauler which is kind of divisive and they did the shivering truth, which I think is fucking incredible I love pffr wonder shows and is their first show and it's like Genuinely the funniest shit Well, I'm a big Xavier renegade angel fan. So That's good Imagine fucking awesome Imagination don't even care about like an issue Imagination Anyway, it's um insult in maybe it's a beautiful I best describe it as like a lot of these franchises are things that have been created by geniuses and inherited by morons And that's the problem because they don't have this creative skill to be able to make stuff like this They're kind of just rehashing the same shit that they've already said and they're not really It feels like they're not really having a conversation at this point You know, like you're just kind of saying the same shit that you've already said So it's like if you want to you want to make a shit movie with shit characters like that Fine, okay. Like you're maybe you're just not very good at this stuff. I'm gonna get offended by it though But if you want to cannibalize these existing characters that were made by I feel like that's a different point talking about How it wouldn't be as bad if not for the fact that it's attached to ip's that we all have a serious stake in culturally Or a lot of us do Someone way more intelligent way more creative than you I don't agree that just like people in the 80s were like way more intelligent I don't think that's what he was saying Like better writers Well, he's saying that morons have inherited the work of great people But how did those great people get those jobs in the first place? Well, they created great works, right? That's how that would have gone Like they got their positions because of that But then the next people got their positions because they may be you know Know the right people the right time like you said nepo babies, right? Yes, and then like oh, yeah, everybody like I I get it like a lot of people that are remaking these things are are Doing so based off of characters that Were created by people that were more intelligent and more creative than them But like I don't know it feels like he's trying to get it a bit more than that Maybe I'll hear him out a bit And humiliate them and try to use them to launch the shit things that you've made That's when I've got a problem because you are you're exploiting someone else's work You're all right. Yeah, it seems like he's got a bit more of a problem with the political angle being launched by The bad writing more than the bad writing itself raping someone else's creativity. That's what you're do you say raping? I think he would take great issue with really shit writing whether or not he could See any kind of political motivation um But the thing is whenever you assassinate any one of these characters You're probably going to be giving them like you're bringing them down every time and so it always seems like it slots in I I have a question before I forget um So the critical drinker is someone that has almost two million subs um and We can both agree That there is a type of caricature that is presented of him That may exist, but is not necessarily him um Do you feel like that caricature exists creating online media? Uh, I'm not I guess expecting you to call anybody out, but can you think of like specific examples? You don't need to list them, but like um In terms of if let's say Uh, the criticisms that are being levied against the critical drinker are unfair Would you say that those criticisms are fair towards different people in the online media space that exist and create content and have I think a decent audience the people who are like poisoned completely by politics and can't see straight with movies are everywhere Yeah, they are definitely on both sides all over the place I think each side should work to clean up its own um its own sides crazy people Because it's just it just it just really shits all over what could potentially be It's hard to have real conversations about movies sometimes Because you have to like wade through a sea of culture or stuff and I would just like to talk about the movies themselves Yeah, and it lets bad writing often skirt by or bigger issues just like get overwhelmed by What is ultimately sometimes completely irrelevant, you know discussions on culture and politics Well, yeah, one of the most controversial effort one of the most controversial elements of secret Invasion was its ai intro. We spent what like five minutes talking about that And I was like, well, that's that moving on when it's like the whole world is stopped turning to talk about how it's ai generated And stuff and it's like it's not to say that there isn't things we're talking about It's just that um, we really want to talk about the characters and the events Um, not just that Amelia Clark has a drax on but to be fair We spent a long time on that too because that's pretty bad and that's that's really funny Yeah, it's a really funny I think someone else's work you're uh, yeah rafing someone else's creative But you're not adding anything productive to it You're creating something worse to try and replace it that as a writer as a storyteller That really offends me because I hate to see other people's work get taken advantage of yeah, nice one Maybe that's some good From our community don't need jeff question for the drinker do you think there will be a time in the future when hollywood Is making great movies again? Or do you think that that time's past and something else like gaming will take its place Gaming Yo gaming The last of us was a real fan Gaming, are you a gamer? He's a gamer Hey, what's the best medium? Of course i'm a gamer Do you hear my comments about women? Jesus Yes, my brother What's the best medium adam? Like for odd Oh like the console? Or whoa, sorry, you're asking about like games versus TV shows versus movies versus books Yeah, comics even Damn, I mean My favorite is movies. I think game gaming has the most potential Wow, that's my answer as well. Yeah, I think so. I agree All right. Well, there you go. That was that End of that conversation Yeah, that movie or TV show All right, because it's a massive massive market But I think also the time of this or mega blockbuster that costs 300 million dollars is coming to an end And I think we're gonna see a lot more of smaller things that they take more risks on and yeah They're gonna start making better stuff otherwise people just damn I wish you would just like promote those smaller projects and like I wish I would say like Oh god like Like recommends Smaller projects to you or like sound of freedom. The whale was an Oscar movie. Like yeah I mean, I'm I'm not I'm not gonna be too shitty about that one like that That was a movie that I recommended, you know, like boiling point everything everywhere the expanse ford v Ferrari all confused with 1917 event hard boiled It's about because yeah, we've Boiling point it. Yeah. Yeah, we were hey, we recommend it so many times is one per hour So I'll recommend it again boiling point everyone. Go check it out. Everyone really boiling everybody. You really should It's a really I should be watching it tomorrow event horizon fight club Blade runner top gun member predator jaws invincible falling down Like, okay, we got your entire. Okay. Here's your playlist that you made normally. Yeah, like oh man Like the boys Cobra Kai Chernobyl event horizon falling down 1917 for v Ferrari predator Unforgiven blade runner jaws. You didn't even like include the whale in this playlist by the way fight club the expanse 20. Whoa. Oh my god the 2010 the year we make contact Oh, there was a big sardonic cast episode about that one. That was fun. I've not seen it. Is it terrible or something? It's fucking horrendous. Okay, if you especially if you like like Yeah, this is like kind of an interesting one because it it almost seems like disrespectful towards the original in the same The way that we were talking about like Other movies that are disrespectful towards the original zina. Mm-hmm principle. Did you watch did you watch the original 2001? Yes, I've seen both. I can't remember much about 2010 though I don't think I've seen 2010 2010 is fucking garbo Spider-man no way home whiplash everything everywhere all at once copy gun maverick all quiet on the western front the way Okay, here we are the whale boiling point the menu Santa freedom like Hey, like you talk you talk as though you're promoting smaller things You talk as though you're probably do you know he has a second channel where he promotes movies as well What is it called? Uh critical drinker after hours. I think it's where he puts up all the podcast podcast clips And then he has other film reviews on there. I think more often recommendations than not Anything that's not just like shoved into your fucking face by everybody else That if I were watching this and I didn't know your content I would just I mean if if I were watching this and I only knew in russell brand's content And I've never heard of you before I would assume that you're like promoting smaller artists or something, you know like Damn like it's it's a sad state where you have this gigantic platform And you're literally just only sharing things that like everybody already knows about and yeah Well, yeah, and there's gonna be plenty of people who just don't learn about much Movies in general and they day-to-day and they rely on people like drinker to expose them to you know The same way that everything is perhaps um becoming federalized in that way this is from at barry john fox Drink up what your top five films and have you seen all of david lynch's films? I have not seen all david lynch's films enough But he doesn't he doesn't get stuff like that he goes down some disturbing roads with his things Uh, top five films. It's definitely not gonna be done in terms of artistic merit or anything But uh, probably terminator two, um big trouble in little china. Uh, um, I think probably you're not like big trouble in little china No, that's okay Yeah, I'm not sure how the menus made it into his top five. Um, that's fascinating That's that's why my i'm reacting that way in the recording. It's so if you'd ask me what strength is top five I probably would have told you it's aliens predator terminator two Indiana jones raiders and uh, big trouble little china being number one. That's what I've always known about him I never would have thought he put the menu at number three I I have a feeling this is a recency thing that he's he's just trying to give you five movies that are top I doubt he put it by us. Yeah, I'm really surprised he mentioned the menu I can't have so recently Uh, probably a crawler and yeah, I'm not sure what my last one to be welcome to do I'm surprised he said night crawler too. Like I know he thinks it's really good and it is really good But I just don't I wouldn't have thought he'd be in his top five Okay, I'm sorry. So are you when you uh on this after hours channel you you do a show with him every week? Yep, open bar Yeah, talk about bar essentially this weekend movies. So to speak I I I held back on criticizing big trouble in little china for being in his top five Probably a crawler and Damn terminator two big trouble in little china the menu Um, big trouble in little china. Um, I think probably the menu. I really love that. Um Uh, probably a crawler and I'm not sure what my last one would be. I'll come back to that one in a minute The reason maybe the menu. I haven't seen that. That's really good. Really interesting It's a very good critique if I understand or are you gonna do I can't wait to watch the menu I was eating it I uh, I almost watched it before this recording, but uh I would have thought you'd like it. Uh, honestly, are you sort of you're not expecting to be very good We'll see. Okay I can't wait to see that a video on my alpha remake my author my alpha my alpha I I kind of avoided the menu for a while because it seemed like normie bullshit Which I mean is being kind of reaffirmed by this but I'll watch it. I'll watch it I'm just I wasn't gonna see in theaters when I remade the film Now maybe not about what about games that I want to see a video by you on games to the greek The last thing the last thing I want to see is alpha. Maybe I don't even want to see the uh my alpha But like when you were saying that stuff about reboots, I think in our man Like I love dovey more. I love alpha the original film and I see actually in a way that's I've got inside scoop on how that stuff happens Like you know, I've done a few successful movies in hollywood They recognize that there's a window for me a moment for me Like they've got the rights to offer it's cheap to do it even if the like if let's say the most recent movie I've ever seen I thought was like legitimately in my top five There's no way I would say like, oh, yeah, it's in my top five I would want to see it a second time, right? Like I would want to make sure like I would want to have like that Confidence about like it's it's funny because I've talked to him about the menu. I didn't realize he was so passionate about it But he might not be I don't know Maybe it's just another one of those things that like kind of like I said earlier where he just says an answer and then If we asked him about it later, he would say That it wasn't I think he said before his top five picks would change He's been asked in super chats before right? It'll change every time But you'll always find big trouble a little china will be in there Ooh place in his what if he has one of those like bingo Machines with the balls a little bit. I mean to an extent I do That implies a randomness, but well, but my if the bingo balls go to 20 if they're all good movies that he likes I was about to say that's pretty much what my top five often ends up being they'll switch around or the top At least top 10 except the prestige. So that's always number one. Yes. It's it's it's there forever What are what are your top five? What are all your top fives right now? wants to go first The funny thing is is that so usually I'd say for the top five in no particular order would be like saving private ryan hot fuzz uh terminated to and then The problem is that then when I start to think about like the next ones it could be it could be a lot of different movies So like whatever I say right now It'd be the same as drinker there'd probably be a couple that would sort of move in and out of the rotation. Yeah the menu No, that wouldn't be in the rotation. I like that movie, but no, I like it too Man, it's tough. I think fellowship of the ring is my favorite movie of all time. Um I might The more I think about it the more I feel like I want to put the last wish really high up there Probably top five. Oh, that's a good one. Yeah, I really like that movie I'd uh, I had my uh, my sister Uh visited the other day with her boyfriend and we talked about the last wish a bit Well, we were out eating and I was like, wow, I really like this. Um, what would it put as my number three? I don't know Oh Do you want to think about it? I go mine's already set. I don't know the last crusade I'll throw I might throw the last crusade in there. I really like that movie The humor and the pacing and uh, I really really like it All right, because it's a really good movie It is a really good movie rags. It is a really good movie Um, what a great, you know thematics at the end the characters and it has Hitler in it So that's always a plus my number one is prestige number two is probably aliens number three probably hot fuzz and then it comes down to a big selection of changes like um, unforgiven Or T2 all orderings fellowship. I throw that in there as well Um, the hunt the hunt is very high up and I'm pretty sure I saw the hunt. Thanks to you adam I'm almost certain good Which means that we saw it. Thanks to more. Yeah. Yeah, that's a very good film that more people need to see Yes, his critical drinker seen it. I don't know but I am trying to get him to see You show it to the critical drinker then he makes a recommend on his channel then we uh, that is the pipeline I think before anyone is allowed to make a twitter account. You need to see the hunt. Hmm People are often surprised about how what it has to say they they wouldn't expect it to be about that especially considering it was uh It was not it was prior to like 20 It was it was prior to like the advent of the thing that it arguably could be talking about I'm trying to remain very very uh non-spoilery Sure. Okay. Yep, that's fine Yeah, and so, uh, I'm trying to think of anything else. I think the gray batman and robin Oh batman robin easily. I'm in a robin obviously goes without saying whiplash I got the holy mountain. I got synecdoche new york. I got the lion king I got eternal sunshine of the spotless mind good pick and I got kill bill volume one I think I mean I consider both of them the same movie I'm thinking about like I'm gonna rewatch all boy soon. Maybe that's in my top five, but I love kill bill. I love each I like it. They're all fucking to expand on animation since you've got the lion king up there walley And the Incredibles are both very very very very high in my estimation Alrighty then. Yeah, really great. Yeah I got I got a fucking imdb list of favorite movies that hasn't been updated since like 2012 and i'm like I don't know when i'm gonna update it and also their user interface is shit. So it's There's a website that you showed me more the way you could Like Charlie would put a movie. Yeah, like it puts a movie versus a movie And then versus another one and then like by working through that it sort of creates the list for you based on Yeah, you can um this want to blow that one you can you can select ones to put in as well So if you want you feel like I really want to get this one and it'll pop it in then it'll just fight it against all the others Okay, I like it. It's fun. It's like a little game. You should send me a link to that I just flick chart.com. I think it's Um, I can look again flick chart Okay Uh, screw you again, but okay feel free to continue playing the video at least in my brain, right? Then they say, you know, there's so many people where like you ask them like what their top movies are They're like, oh this movie from this year. It's like damn When they were gonna make before that you more than half of them have all time this year like it can happen It has to be a real good movie though Tar is fucking you know rags mentioned puts and boots and I really really like that movie But I feel like I need to put a couple more years between it before I really am. Yeah That's why I feel like every if I get asked this every week It might change because there's so many great movies that I you know, really adore Well part of it is I can easily say myself putting like the thing up there or you know Why don't like getting asked because I could just have my mind Like there could be a movie that just slips my mind even though it ranks really high Just because of where I'm at at any given time like the father right once, you know The second watch deal that I was like, holy fuck. This is this is a top tier I mean cast of blank is really good. You know like having just watched that recently It's a really good movie Credible. I'm gonna give that a 10 on the second time. I watched it probably I didn't do it the first time I watched it Even the lighthouse I gave a 10 the first time I watched it. Maybe I like I had to think about it I'm not gonna say that it's like oh in my top five like of all time You're not gonna let that sink in. Holy shit I couldn't imagine including something in my top five that I didn't let sink in Bobby movie is greater than citizen kane. What? All right What barbie movie is okay calm down That's insane to me, but you know I assume it's a meme because they say modern versus But hey, you know what all opinions are welcome here when the damage been done I found out that's the version of alpha you want to do is an 18 or our registered version Like that's almost you can see another take on that But but they because it's economically motivated they want it to be pg it gets off and to the point We can't even show him drink driving, you know, drink driving very british And also someone should have told me don't do that voice those two things Those two things are going to save us all a lot of time and trouble. I'm not going to push you to make videos on films I've done that's that's mental. I can't believe I'm crazy. Vulcan live says crickled drinker I'm more excited about this than Thorsy tucker or rfk and then tn base girl says his eyes look blue to me But ross is it brown? Oh, maybe they are blue. Yeah Oh, you got the eyes of a husky He looks like a skinny sargon of a kind It really does What are you willing to be nice about Uh, it might be getting to the Greek actually it got chocolate me back in the day So yeah, it's been a good long time since I've seen it, but I do remember coin join it Bro, you better watch it again. Come on. Let's jump into the relationship here. What do you think I recommend? Um, okay So what do you think about stuff like um, the re-editing of the roll file books and the sort of conversation around like Life of brian and changing stuff like what do you stand on that mate? That makes me fucking sick I hate this idea of uh, we need to like soften that means the altering these movies from the past We take the permission of the people who made them, uh, just to make them more palatable to moderate audience Okay, I don't even want it with the permission of the people who made it Once you've made it, it's out there. Leave it alone. Don't edit it. Yeah It's just because it's obviously releasing additional visuals aside I'm about to say what about yeah, director's cuts and things. I'm fine with that yet But don't don't try and like once it's out be like no no no no no no. I don't need to see that One scrub the world of the uh of the original version Well, we say scrub the world is like good luck fucking trying when it's the internet, right? Like it's funny. There's a lot of edited movies The you know on streaming services will now be available in the way that they are but it's like piracy My good friend will be there forever presumably anyway It's an interesting aspect of media preservation, especially with less physical copies Like these these shows on streaming services. It's pretty rare that they get a uh Like a blu-ray release Someone might get fined by this and all this stuff gets edited after it comes out. Yeah, I know Everyone's been going nuts over the um across the spider ways edits like a lot of stuff is lost to time now apparently, um Yeah, I find that one really strange. I don't know what happened Yeah, I I don't know what to make of that other than Because what was it just a gimmick or was it actually because the film wasn't like done completely in Probably I have no clue. I've seen a lot of theories about why it's ended up that way but across the spider ways, of course Um, if it came with Deleted or alternate scenes. I think people will be okay with it But from what I've heard it's actually like the scenes that they saw in the theater have gone from the releases Wow, okay. Yeah, I don't know what's going on. I don't know why they're doing it Okay As far as I'm concerned. Yeah, these are works of art. They should be left alone as they were intended to be shown Yeah, I agree Both with like in the case of role dial and in the case like that people what role dial has in interviews outside of his fiction Set him like overly and he's making stuff like he's sent some match here But like I mean like within the work he doesn't say that in like Matilda or like Charlie in a chocolate factory But like and again, it's what people like but they want to why do you know what happened? I think I think Netflix did a deal and bought the role dial estate Netflix or like our ship we live in this sort of territory where those things are monetized and mobilized i.e issues around identity Let's push for the role dial estate to reissue those books with edits and stuff I feel like I even like, you know, I would never use the n word. I would never make a racist joke But But So it's like you've got work out where this, you know, what the deal is, you know I mean, I'm not a big fan of front-of-race history or trying to Alter it to make it more palatable to people because it's like you're trying to pretend that things like mistakes that were made in the past Didn't actually exist. I completely agree. And so it's like you can't do it Like the good and the bad that comes with it And I think you should just be honest about this stuff and it filters through to movies and things like that Like you can look at movies that were made like gone with the wind or whatever back into the 30s and 40s Yeah, they don't align with our current standards or our current like Cultural zeitgeist, but they're not meant to because they were made in a very different time But we respect the time in which they were made and we can look back on them now and say well Yeah, okay, that's that's changed since then but it deserves to be shown because it's an artifact from when it was made Mate, thank you so much. You're quite right It's pretty plain that all of your work comes from a place of genuine love of cinema and storytelling And as you say the currency of authenticity, thanks so much will for joining us. I don't disagree with I believe that I believe that his takes also I literally agree with the Russell brand here I believe that the critical drinkers takes come from a love of cinema and authenticity But what he perceives to be as cinema and authenticity not my definition of that, right? I believe I don't believe that he's a bad faith actor. I don't believe that he's like a bad faith like oh I'm trying to I'm trying to just make my political beliefs for everybody. It's like blah blah blah blah like he's coming from a genuine place I just think that it's like a very narrow mindset And that again, I think I'm gonna reiterate what I said earlier Like this guy's got fucking almost two million subscribers Like I don't think that there's that many people that are just like so bad faith that they're like Oh, yeah, I want to pretend as if like I believe what he's saying like a lot of people really connect with his shit A lot of people really connect with it You um Still feel this narrow or just narrowed by comparison to your own Uh, yeah still in comparison to my own. I would say but not as narrow as I Because like I don't I wouldn't take any issue with the argument of like he's not you know Promoting smaller films that or good examples of things that he like Like that's not something that I stand by Um, but I mean, yeah, if we're talking comparatively I don't know what mine is narrow compared to yours. Like you uh Yeah, I it'd be insane. You know, there's different goals and different tastes and different sensibilities and there's nothing wrong with that We have to understand why it's important to understand why it's important to understand why people agree with this, right? So It's not as simple as just saying like oh, he's lying Or oh, he's he's You know, just incorrect about like he believes what he's saying he believes what he's saying I believe that We can't make our wonderful content damn I saved I saved a good 20 minutes here. Yeah I'm so happy that we stopped there was the I think the rest is just patreon credits. Okay Good job patrons We did it. We actually did cover a two and a half hour video Transformed in half hours eight hours and 32 minutes. That's not bad for us. That's actually not bad for us What you uh said you were gonna. So thanks for that. Um closing all right in terms of this whole subject my Big concern is simply that the world we're currently in on the internet is filled with way too much passion for burning bridges And a jump to it sort of thing And whenever I see conflict with any kinds of spheres that I'm even remotely connected to Stepping on each other because of clips they see or takes they see and they assume the worst because there are so many people Who do do it for the worst reasons? I'm always like damn that's a missed opportunity because that could have gone a completely different direction Obviously, I'm biased in this regard one of the first episodes of efat. We had j axion and since has become One of the closer friends I've had on on the internet, you know and that could have gone a completely different direction easily Could have been really bad like he covered my stuff. We brought him on talk to him and everything got settled You know what I mean? um And so like I I feel like you as a very uh great influence on film as an art form And drinker as uh someone i'm very much invested in in that way I feel like this is easy for a connection to be made and for um, you know Certain things that need more attention to potentially be filtered through Not to mention, you know, I would love to have you on open bar as a guest. Obviously, I'd have to talk to him about it um And it's unfortunate that like this would be the first major interaction Technically speaking as opposed to something more neutral or rather literally just a conversation where Ideas can be shared as opposed to different directions being going down because um Like I said, I've got a decent investment in both of you and I just feel like it's uh There's a lot you guys would agree on opposed to the opposite Uh-huh. Yeah, I mean In the stream that I made I agreed with like half of it But you know my main concerns are more with the nuance and I guess more the intent of where we're trying to attribute these mistakes from whether or not it's uh, you know bad writing or like a cultural You know like trying to to form culture into like a specific way um Yeah, we we have agreements and we have disagreements. Uh, here's my question. So do you feel You asked me how much I felt Of my criticisms in this video held up to you know, like a perfect standard or whatever or You know, there's there's some assumptions that were made and Uh, some misinterpretations and you know, I went pretty pretty good faith and uh You know Didn't make an essay video or like an attack video or anything. I don't think but Um, do you feel as though any of my criticisms were justified? Uh Yeah, there's a couple of things that I think drinker could word for more clarity um, but the problem of course is that he's in a relatively quick interview and he doesn't know What should necessarily be explained further or what would be misunderstood? Um, I would still recommend that if you wanted to do anything of this kind of approach to him on a stream That the better move would have been to check out like three videos from him About three things you're like familiar with give me a list Oh, well, uh, Okay. Yeah, I will and and you'll be interested to see you check out his uh, what his woke video as well Do what you think okay Put that on put that on the list Uh Were we uh Yeah, what were we planning on talking about copyright or no Did we want to do I don't want to make you stay for even longer. Holy shit It's eight and a half hours if I assume we're on the same team with the the copyright stuff, right? I think so. Yeah, well, I mean we can we can have a little blurb if you want go for it Whatever you want. I don't know if Were you planning on it being like an in-depth conversation or like watching any xqc stuff? Oh, well, we're doing that for the next evap. We're gonna watch the h3 Excuse me debate that that was gonna happen with particular gas, but we're gonna have to move it around It won't be tomorrow guys. That's not gonna be happening anymore. Um Be next week, but yeah Um If you wanted to join us for that you're welcome to uh, no, I don't have time. I'm fucked Yeah, well, um stuff around to do this We seriously appreciate the hell out of you spending this much time with us to talk through all this stuff and that uh, I think there's Hella toxicity as someone might say between different communities clashing hard But I think the this kind of communication is honestly rare and should be something that we work toward more so than uh by way from Yeah, I mean like, you know, I I understand that not everybody is on the same wavelength about everything. Uh You know, I feel like I make that clear with the type of I guess content that I produce and the type of Presence I have on the internet. I feel like I get along with most people uh to some degree um Are you planning on uh Uh, are you planning on ending your stream? Um, we're probably gonna talk a little bit about the state of everything dates There's some uh shopkeeping so to speak to let the fat community know about but other than that. Yeah, we're probably wrapping up soon Do you want to do you want to uh, uh spam your chat my, uh Twitch or kick link because I'm gonna get some cardio in and I'm gonna play beat saber Absolutely. Do you want to link the link your preference? Sure Um Well, uh Which one do I prefer? I guess I guess I prefer kick right now because uh Well, I've got your um, your main channel is in the description, of course Uh, you can sort of take the opportunity if you want to tell people on youtube, but no, no, of course I just mean in general talk to people about what you do and why they should subscribe to you, of course Oh, uh My main channel is your movie sex. You can find it by going to youtube.com slash at yms Uh, I made a pretty good video debunking a 25 year old animation conspiracy called yms kimba I made a pretty good video line king part one Uh, I made a pretty good video yms the little mermaid, uh, and if you enjoy those then I hope you I hope you get hooked enough to listen to me talk about smaller films and uh, You know expand your your media diets and hopefully when it means hopefully it means something when I recommend Something and everybody checks it out, uh, or when I strongly recommend something when I give a six out of 10 You don't have to watch it You know it don't yeah, that's that's not a strong recommendation But if I give a fucking eight or above that means go see it, right? Yeah Yeah, I do game streams. I do editing streams. I do music. I make music Oh, wow He's a music maker movie review. I am Too you too. Did you not do did you not know that I did music? I knew it. I did I did know that you did music He sings he dances. He's the outro for a lot of your uh, older vids older videos. Yeah. Yeah It's the outro on the adam and pels What else do you do don't stop keep going You write books I have a food channel Oh, you did what I do this is actually news to me. I actually didn't know you had a food channel It's literally, you know, you know, it's great about having a food channel. You can write off all of your food That's true. It's a it's a business expense. That's unironically true any if like if I get anything from my computer That's a business expense. It's everyone should have a food channel. It saves you money. Why abes eats? Literally Why not you save money reviewing all them foods out there. Do you actually review them when you just eat them and that's it? I mean It's on camera. Sometimes I give my thoughts about it. Yeah, that's okay. I try to make a bit more of it like it It's a it's a part of the business it's part of the business model, you know, that's right. That's right Makes sense make that money chew that food Calories for cash. There's a clips channel. There's the yms highlights channel which is where the video we just reacted to came from and which is where My perspective of this stream will also be I might actually I might actually Should I show your chat in my upload as well because that could be edited in if I think that's something we should also do I don't know how much one would gain if they were a fan of your work to see e-fap chat on the screen for all of That they were incredibly angry Okay, no, they weren't exactly doing constructive Editions not I mean a lot of the word but a lot of them were just very very angry Do I have permission if we think that it's kind of funny? Maybe I wasn't looking I didn't have the tab open but Um, it's the kind of what I was talking about is like people get very uh, sensitive I think you've talked about it right like Taking personal insult when creators they prefer It happens. Yes. I've talked about this many times. Yeah So I would like to point out someone in chat though. I like this comment. They said I'm not a fan of rags The yms is massively worse There you go rags. Oh, we could so there we can we could leave that there and let it simmer Let that marinate um Okay, yeah, uh, let me know By the way, if you've got no company and wouldn't mind it I'd happily watch boiling point with you tomorrow if you want I do have company. Okay a long friend that I haven't I haven't seen him in fucking Like two years and I'm debating whether or not to Like do a watch along and just have him on mic or just to have like a normal Hang out with him. I have this problem where I try to like work no matter what I'm doing Yeah Yeah, it's an issue. I'm about to do my cardio and stream it right I have Put it in chat. YMS on kick Go check them out. You can do cardio if I wind up doing a watch along Uh, would you even be like I don't know what your sleep? Are you essentially like a demon person schedule you are on right now? Uh, whatever you I'd be able to make room for it because it is sunday tomorrow I don't think drink is back. So we won't be doing cash up. When do you sleep? It's a really good question. Oh that yeah, whenever we can you know Just whenever I don't know how you do this I wouldn't recommend it You gotta remember as well the convergence of three different drastically different time zones as well. Yeah, remember i'm in america america australia and wales I fit in like fucking two hours for my podcast of different time zones like It's not 12 hours. That's how far we're willing to go to save storytelling adam. That's right Where others are I drink a lot of coffee. Yeah, it's a problem. I think Do you do you eat during these also? I left a bunch of times some we assume that was to be I haven't peed yet, and i'm looking to YMS and I we were on a piss and contest we we were just we were just pissing And that's good. That's healthy. We should yeah, we should yeah, we could make we should make a king podcast I drink a lot too. I drink a whole bunch of water If we started a podcast called piss cast. Oh, dude. Yes. Yes. I was just about to say piss cast absolutely We don't go as long as the first person needs to be Tips tricks We'll lift the lid on To hold in your piss because the first person who pisses loses that sounds hellish. Um, that might be the opposite of ours They actually tried that on a radio station, and it was also a kind Yeah, and you also had to drink water and a lady died. She was about to I think I'm worried about that. Yeah, he gets seriously seriously ill from that. I could believe that You can drink you can drink so much water that you do kill yourself. It is incredibly difficult But it's really done. I I feel like I've seen a video that how much is it isn't like Like 30 liters or something in a day Isn't like some insane amount of water that you would need to drink I my understanding is that it it was a large part contributed To the fact that she couldn't piss So um that you could drink as much water as you want as long as you're pissing Well, I think you can't get water poisoning right you can get poisoned by drinking too much water It's just that the amount is insanely high So while um this it says here that while uh while water is considered one of the least toxic chemical compounds Uh, it says drinking six leaders. No drinking six. It depends where you live. I suppose Uh, but drinking six liters in three hours has caused the death of a human Oh, water it water death by water intoxication is possible But it should probably not be a concern of yours. Most people probably just can't do that Well, I mean the problem that most people have is I don't drink enough water That's that's way more of a problem than drink water everyone Don't drink three liters in six hours. No, no, no, don't be doing that and don't drink spark Wow, you can drink sparkling water if you don't drink sparkling water. It's nasty. We'll make that illegal soon Hmm. Oh, I mean getting the important things done I mean, it's probably something wrong with it, right? Like it's got to be worse than just regular water in some way Well, like nutritionally, I don't know. I don't need air in my water if I need air. I'll just breathe Air in your water Yeah, all the little bubbles. It's like carbon dioxide or something right or nitrogen. What gas do they use? I have no idea. I've never thought to really look into sparkling water as a as a thing I hate it. Me neither. I think it's I don't like it in my life. I don't like it It's weird. Why what is it about all it all it is is carbonated. It's just I think it's just co2 Right, so it's just water and then they add co2 to it to make it all fizzy How does that make it Terrible Yeah, I don't get it. I don't understand Mike because my mouth is like what the fuck is this What about mineral water? Uh, which mineral? I don't know mineral water. I don't know. Uh, I don't I don't know. I assume it's probably I've never thought to look that up mineral water mineral about like what about like bismuth maybe Or I write to it says a mineral Do they have vegetable water most rocks they're minerals marie It's apparent so apparently uh Because it varies but mineral water can often have potassium magnesium sulfate calcium carbonate sodium sulfate I I don't I don't know what anytime to really I don't potassium is but those are the ones Yum, you can get that from bananas Yes, which you can get poison from eating too many bananas, right potassium But banana intoxication, but how many bananas is too much? Um, I'm gonna say I'm gonna say seven You reckon that's a cut off seven's too much Seven seven is just too many bananas. Yeah, but throughout your life or in a day Yeah, throughout your life. Yes, okay Stop it. I think I've already kept that out right a month. Well You're gonna die. Fuck I'm sorry You should have if you hadn't said that I'd probably have lived That's what I you've you've peeled your last banana is uh as a phrase that was often said back in the olden days especially out west You've peeled your last banana Then they would die presumably. So anyway, why ms your movie sucks adam. You you've been wonderful. Thank you so much Yeah, you're a real Yeah, you should you should do streaming coming on in general to talk about it. Of course, of course it would be Be kind of weird if I didn't No Obviously, it's up to you. I hope we see you again for halloween Yeah, oh, of course. Yeah Everyone watching spooky movies Uh, what link should I give? Let's see kick w-w-w Oh, I've been posting your kick link dot com slash yms. Oh, yeah. Well, all right. Thank you Well, if people are gonna join I'm gonna be playing some beat saber Why didn't I always think it was kik? I always thought it was kik Why why did you think I think you're because I just think that's a chat application Uh, maybe That's a different thing. Yeah, but for some reason I just thought kick was kik Maybe yeah, maybe it's the app, but that's just something I Yeah See that's that's pretty reasonable misconception All right, peace. I'm okay. Bye Goodbye Hi boy Right flick chart is asking whether I what it's better dumb and dumber or mrs. Doubtfire Oh Oh, that's that's interesting. I don't know it comes in a very long time. So I can't gun to my head I'm gonna go with mrs. Doubtfire, but I feel like it's close Yeah, I don't know which one I'm gonna go for I think I'll go with mrs. Doubtfire I feel it's got that emotional, you know resonance to it Mm-hmm Man dumb and dumber there's like three of those movies, right? I think so too dumb too furious You dumb too furious It I think though. Yeah um, so I guess first, uh Rags if you wanted to say anything about anything you're up to and then we can talk about The what's gonna be happening the next few weeks I have no updates I have no updates work carries on. So um, yeah, I don't want to make any promises, but work carries on Yep, so the current situation EFAP lads Is the the video good old quantamania video is like a day and a half's work worth Away from being 100 billion percent complete. The main thing that's missing Is the part at the end where and I guess this acts as a form of vague Reannouncement That uh me me rags and fringes have set up a good old new thing It ain't a plushie this time Actually, uh, it's actually a new kind of thing that is all but essentially 100% Good to go. So I assume you guys are right with me. Uh talking a bit about it. All right Um, yeah, I think so. I think so You okay fringy? You're gonna That's why I'm saying this. I can't think of any but in case, you know, just let me know You never know. You never know. Maybe just just dot my eyes and crossing my eyes Um, it's okay. So it's uh, it's vinyl figures is what we've got going One for each of us. They're quite neat. Um, I would show you imagery, but it's not 100% good to go right now um The other problem is that they may not be good to go Before it's literally down to the days that we've almost got it set up, but it's so close. It might not be set up in time And so all that'll mean is the video would be delayed by a week Uh until that that matches And so I think that if that because the original plan is to release the video on the 19th Meaning wait, when's the last? EFAP supposed to happen Never when we die, uh, that'll be that will be the Okay, we're gonna have to do the next EFAP a different day We'll have to figure that out. Okay Because yeah, because of course the plan was originally to do it tomorrow But we couldn't do it tomorrow because the guests have fallen through and we did get reschedule. So Uh, geez plans. Okay. So Next week the video is supposed to come out on the 19th. That is still in relative stone Um, I think from what I've seen we should be on on on we're good for that That seems to be the case. We should be good for that Worst case scenario move forward by a week and it comes out Oh I guess we'll be on the 25th because uh anniversaries are 26th, right? Is that what we did last year with dr. Strange? Did that come out on a friday? Uh, I thought it came out on I want to say like a wednesday or thursday I don't remember. Hold on. Did we do Was last year's anniversary. Did we do it on a sunday? Honestly, uh, no, we would have done it on I mean, you gotta stop saying sunday. I'm always Saturday Yeah, saturday saturday for me as well, but No, your guy saturday. It's always my sunday except for today. Today is saturday. Yay. It's still saturday for me Yeah, your video was friday yours was the 27th of august which was No, that was okay. That was saturday saturday the 27th. So we did do the anniversary on a sunday then I Are you sure? Well, because I thought we did it the day after the dr. Strange video came out. Oh, no I think didn't you I think you debat I think debuted debuted the uh, dr. Strange video like hours before we started Oh, shit. Did I is I would remember that was down to the wire. It was unfortunately. We were there again Whoever that we can't do avoid that shit But yes, so that okay. Well in any case that's the plan as Right now, but I'm trying to let you guys know Lay it out clearly again because I feel like it got confused there Next defab episode. We're gonna have to do it on like Wednesday 16th all unlikely um because the 19th is where The video is supposed to come out. Why the fuck would we stream while premiering at moment my video? I feel like that would be a very silly idea That would be odd And then the following week on the 26th is the anniversary stream. That is the plan however If we can't get these vinyls ready to go by the 19th or rather Earlier to be honest with you because it needs time to set up um, the video would be moved forward a week And I mean the the the repercussion of that would likely be that the anniversary would be moved forward a week The video would be moved back a week Forward a week back a week. I mean You said forward a week. You mean back a week. Why would we go to back a week? We'd be moving the anniversary wait forward a week Why would it be back? Wait? Well, I I'm okay. I'm confused You guys figure this out and tell me what we're doing. I don't know. What are you confused about? What's happening? They'd be moving forward a week so Video 19th anniversary 26th if we can't get the the vinyls in time video 26th and then anniversary of the second That's back We're moving them backward a week Forward a week means closer than now I've never known it to mean that Moving forward a week. I I understand. I understand what you're saying. I I understand what fringy means and I understand Mahler's misconception I know I understand what's happening You're not neither of you are crazy neither of you are crazy. Don't worry Cloverfield's better than 300 Forward a week means Forward in time forward Okay Yeah, exactly. Yeah forward on the calendar means that it's being moved. Yeah before But forward temporarily means that it's happening further away from where we are now forwards to the future. Yeah, so that both of you As in moving it closer to where you are Yes, that's that's that's my understanding of it as well. I am staring we're gonna move the date forward. So I am staring at the the numbers and dates and I'm just looking at it back and forward timeline wise That's probably why I went with forward there as opposed to I will say The the majority of people commenting on who's right or wrong as they're Saying that I'm saying it correctly But now I don't know I understand when fringy What I know fringy is what I what my understanding of it is and what people mean around here at least That's what I think That it is now understood for chat that it means I will use later Different words. I will use sooner and later. There you go. Those ones are good. So okay. Yeah, that's okay. Yes so the 19th Is when the video is intended to release and the anniversary is intended to be on the 26th however If the vinyls get delayed long enough that we cannot release them on time The video will be pushed later to the 26th And the anniversary will be pushed later to the second Yes, that is Relatively simple the main issue of course is I hate the fact that this ever has to happen because I know many of you already have made arrangements to be available In whatever obviously it's a Saturday So hopefully speaking that you didn't have to do much of anything not ruining anything that sort of stuff But um, like I said, we're gonna do everything we can to keep it on schedule Uh, so exactly two weeks from well to the day yesterday is the anniversary Like I said, so, you know, hopefully it all works out. Um, obviously plenty of things will be planned Guests and videos guys really like them vinyls. I reckon I think so too. They're looking they're looking sharp guys Hopefully they look really great if we do stream an eFab on wednesday. Hopefully we can show them Uh, we might have them by then we might not obviously we'll let you know might yes We might um, what else was I gonna say? Oh, yeah, of course if you have any memes and videos or anything you've created that relates to episode 250 um, I'll probably be trying the uh, the discord collection Uh, for memes to grab them all up in time. Obviously it's that time of year. So, uh All different things happen and it's difficult to get everything in order because I need to start getting it There's the annoying thing is I can't quite invite people to a date yet Because it's it's it's shifty. It's a shifty date But um, yeah, I will try and get everything in order. That's that's that's the full update essentially Really looking forward to these things happening if and when they happen, of course So, uh Yeah, I guess that's that um, and yeah, we obviously have been incredibly busy with lots of different things Uh, we are gonna be recording and delivering more of the super chat catch ups It's just that uh, as you have seen if you're subscribed to moola a lot of random different things popping out here and there that needed editing And participation in streams all that stuff All right, well, I guess uh, well, I mean Might be premature right but like a soca right efap tv. That's that is gonna be happening as well. Yes That's on the horizons because uh, soca. Yeah man's done Uh, that's that's the next main thing i'm gonna be working on for efap, you know related stuff Uh, yeah, and two episode premiere. So that makes my life harder Well, you can still take one at a time. We'll we'll do it one at a time Uh, yeah, we'll do it one at a time It's just you know in terms of keeping it weekly that just makes it harder. But yeah, that's that's on the horizon Well, that's that I suppose Is there anything else you guys want to say that is that I suppose? Yeah No, I think that's about it Um No, I think we're good. I think we're good Wonderful. I think I think we're good Thank you all so much for joining us. We shall see you In the next efap, which won't even be that long more than likely. Mm-hmm Thanks for joining us. Thanks to the company and uh, yeah, we'll see you next time For you. Goodbye everybody. Goodbye. Bye. See you. Ciao