 Donal by failings, by Tusla, after being falsely accused of abusing his son and daughter. Donal Gold deputy, Piers D'Hartier, might remember, raised the case and claims Tusla seemingly fabricated the allegations, including the recording of a false confession which was only brought to the attention of Mr. Porter through a Freedom of Information request. And Mr. Porter is said to have developed significant health problems due to the stress caused by the false accusations dating back to 2010. Tusla has since apologised to William and Mr. Porter. William is now living with both his children. So I'm reading from a script and I'm calling you Mr. Porter, but I have you in front of me and it's William Porter, of course. William, how are you keeping? How are you now? I'm not so bad, Greg. One day at a time, as they say, you know. The reason that, first of all, before we start and get under this story, there's a few words I need to say. First of all, I want to thank Piers D'Hartier. Without Piers D'Hartier, I wouldn't be here today. I can honestly say he saved my life. And the guy I used to work from the time, Niall Niall Gallagher, he's become a friend of mine and Niall gave me great assistance too when it was in the really dark days back in 2016 and before. And I've come here the day. I'm not here for William Porter the day, I'm here in the public interest. Because I have a duty to everybody on this island of Ireland. I'm not just chatting about the 26 counties, I'm chatting about the 32 counties because what has went on here is nothing short of appalling. It's disgraceful. Vile is a word I would use. What has happened over the course of the years. What, you know, what have, what has happened to my family and myself. And, you know, it's just I'm here and then this to the people because I've come into contact with people over the last number of years that have been affected also by these organisations and I've a duty to the people to come and tell the story today. And it's almost unmanageable what you've been through. And also, from any loving parents perspective, it's possibly one of the worst things could happen to you. Well, we're all set out in a course in life, Greg, and we have hurdles to negotiate. And, you know, it's very hard. As I get through this story, you know, it's, it was a one day at a time thing, but it's the thing unraveled and a scene that was opening up before me actually started to question me on Saturday time that this could be happening. I did. There was times, you know, because I could only times where I did not sleep, but what went on and I get under the thing, you know, the whole thing started really back in 2010. My marriage broke down. My daughter was taken away from home and it didn't really save for the first year at all. I only saw her for an hour a week in a cafe in Castle Derrick and I had no real contact with her whatsoever. So this was no good. Rachel was only, we were over two years of age at the time. And, you know, I ended up, I had to go through court to get proper contact set up. And that was very difficult because I contacted a legal firm in Toronto at the time and they were looking for £600 for one day in court. And in my naivety, I said to the guy, well, that sort everything out. And I said, I wouldn't think so, you know, so I couldn't afford to hire a legal representation. So I ended up working as a self-ledicant myself. I mean, that in itself, before we even get into it, that in itself that you are, the ability to secure the right to see your children can come down to how much money you have. I mean, that's, you know, I mean, that's the start of it. But that in itself is, you know... I did receive help from a man, and he's not with us anymore unfortunately, a man called Pat Kelly. He worked for a group called Forever Fowlers and he got me school to go into court. The first time I'd done the Oma Courthouse because my daughter had been taken to Northern Ireland and I had to go through the Northern Ireland system, so I did. And he gave me great help, so he did Pat and I'm just, I think about him every day to tell you the truth. But unfortunately, he died in 2014, so he did. But anyway, I started and the first time I applied to get contact with my daughter, I remember it was either the first or second time I was up in the court and I went upstairs, was handing in papers up to the court clerk and I remember the court children's officer at the time reached me in this bundle of papers and I sat down and started to flick through them and I started to read stuff on these papers, which I couldn't believe I was reading about myself. And I remember looking across and there was three PSI officers sitting across from me. We were in the upstairs part of the court and I said, if you guys were seeing what I was reading, you should be taking me away, sort of thing, you know. So anyway, contact, I got a wee bit of contact set up. I saw my daughter for two hours on a Tuesday after school and we went and done homework and I got a wee bit taken in and dropped her home for 5.30. It progressed into weekend contact and 2011 went into 2012 and the first weekend that she was back down at Home and Donegal, she woke up at 6.30 in the morning and her room was just adjacent to me and Greg and she came over and under me. It was her first time back in nearly two years in the family home, you know, and she woke up at 6.30 and she came over and jumped on beside me, you know, and she just woke up. She wasn't, you know, and me and her chatted for a minute when we went back off to sleep but the next day I went under the court. The court children's officer aid me immediately and she just pointed at me to get under her room in the courthouse in Oma and she took me under this room and she says, I believe your daughter has been in your bedroom and at first I was in shock. I says, yes, she was. She woke up. It was her first night down. Now, I know this lady's name but I can't say it of course and she warned me that she must never enter my bedroom. Geez, what? I was okay. And I says, what are you trying to imply? It's even, this puts you in a position that even starting to have this conversation with this person now, it's bringing your mind into places that it would never be or questions of your relationship with your daughter that you would never have. It's horrendous, isn't it? Well, you know, I understand that these people have a difficult job and especially a court children's officer because she's taken information from social workers and she's having to do their work and pass it on to the judge and I did develop a relationship with this lady during court times and she actually assisted me but I'll never forget that day because it really knocked my back and I assured her, I says, okay, I won't let her near my bedroom again and I adhered to that. So that was okay, Greg. That happened then and I'm just coming forward here. Then my contact was continuously broken. There was no consistent contact and nobody was doing nothing about it. So just so we understand the language here and we're only talking about your situation and other parties and such. You were being frustrated, like were you being told your daughter's not available? I would have went to pick her up and she wouldn't even be there. Okay, perfect, okay. Just so we understand what was going on. I was relaying this back but it was getting nowhere. So my son was so frustrated at the time too because he wasn't getting to see his wee sister, he was living with me. And he stayed with me, of course, when the marriage broke down and he was so frustrated. He says, Daddy, you're getting nowhere at all. I'm going to go and speak to these people. They're going to have to listen to me. So on June the 20th, 2013, Andrew spoke to us. I'm going to call our social worker, eh, Terry. And he went on and relayed his fears about his wee sister and about him not getting to see her and stuff like that there. This social worker, he went on on his own and she showed him no compassion whatsoever. She actually rung me that evening and threatened me on the phone and said that that's a terrible thing you've put your son through there today. I says, I haven't put him through anything. He's not getting seen as wee sister. This is terrible. What's going on? You people need to do something here. So that was okay. We got nowhere and there was very upset. So he was. And that was okay. What age was that? What way was Andrew at this time? 16 years old. Right okay. And moving forward then, this was in Derry where he had this meeting with social worker eh. So this is when it really starts to get going, Greg. In July, the 16th of July, 2013, we got a meeting with a social worker, social worker B, and I think his county building's up in Oma. And we went up there and I have to say this was one of the most horrific days that I've ever put in in my life. I've never witnessed anything I witnessed this day. I witnessed my son telling this lady things, shocking things. And she didn't listen to one word that he said. She didn't listen to one word that he said. She turned everything back on him. Can you give us an idea without going into it? And that was difficult but. It's really personal stuff that happened within his life and I want to try to protect that as much as possible. Now I understand. So he was. He was relaying very serious stuff, absolutely really serious stuff. And he'd become upset during the meeting. Now something beside social worker B with social worker C and she had her head down. She didn't even engage with us because I don't think she could believe it was happening herself. And I can't remember exactly long on the meeting but I could see Andrews getting really upset and I remember putting my hand on her and I said you're okay son, I'm going to take you out of here. Yeah. And I looked at social worker B and I said just give me one minute I'm taking my son out of the city. And I talk him outside and I said I'm down in something like a seat they got there in the hall and I said give me two minutes. And I went back in to social worker B and here's what I asked her. I said are you your mother yourself? And she screeched at me, how dare you ask me that question? I said I'm going to ask you again from a humanitarian point of view are you your mother yourself? And it was the same response. She just screeched at me, how dare you ask me such a question. And I said to her, I said I just do not know how you can treat my son the way you did. And I got up and I left the meeting so we had it at home. And there was deeply upset so it was. The next day I was working in the shed I was fireman at the time at home and I got a call from her on the 17th of July 2013 and she threatened me that I wasn't going to see my daughter again if I proceeded in the way that I was carrying on. And she then compiled a false report like what happened down the line with Tozla she compiled a false report for the court children's officer. Excuse me. Alright, take a drink of that. I'm surprised. It's so difficult to talk about having to go through it all again. But anyway, she compiled a report. She compiled a report. I'm not going to give this stuff that was on the report which was read out to a judge in the upstairs part of the court and oh my a few days later was relayed to the judge by the court children's officer. And I said this is absolute nonsense what has been said here. I just couldn't believe it. So what was she trying to get at in that report again without compromising your son's privacy or any information you don't want to share but just what was she trying, what story was she trying to paint as much as you want to say? She was working of information that had been passed to her from women's aid. Right. And she had made out that I had co-hearced my son to go forward. So he was like a victim of yours is the way it was being framed. Yes, yes, but yet he was still loving with me because he was in itself, you know what I mean. So that's what happened there. So that was okay. Moving forward. She's phoned me in the... So what was the impact of that by the way? Of her presenting that in the court as was what was the consequence or what was that being used for? Did that interfere your access to your daughter or is it just something that was placed on the record that would work against you down the line? It was just placed on the record and I found it very difficult although I have to say and I can say that Judge Sheridan seemed a very fair man. I was speaking to him at the time Judge Sheridan was that day and I explained to him that none of this was true and he did seem to listen to me, you know. He did seem to listen, but moving forward it left things very, very difficult for me moving forward, you know. And that was really 2013 up on... that was July. Now here's Greg, now I'm not expecting I need to be Sheridan Holmes, but just work this one out. That was in July the 17th and August the following month I got a call from Tuzla to tell me that they're coming to invest to get me for abusing me son. And I asked the guy in the phone I says like what's this all about? I had never had no touch with any social works and so on and whatsoever so he arrives at my door and I ask him, I says you're telling me that you're here now three years after I was meant to have done this he says I'm only here to tie up loose ends and I says let me tell you something my good man my son's life is no loose end and I says you're in absolute disgrace that you've taken that long to get here three years after that you know three years after that something that was reported to happen and that's how long it took him to get to my door and I says you better come in because me and you need to have a good chat with the others with me and he went away and he came back and spoke to me son on another occasion I think it was about a week or ten days later and when he was leaving I said to him I said are you happy now that my son's you know safe with me he says I'm surely no problem so that was the two meetings we had firstly with Tuzla you know so I knew instantly I did say to him I said look you've been sent here by Northern Ireland of the stuff that happened previously in Northern Ireland and he totally denied it he totally denied it I said no no I'm just here to tell you he said the same thing over again you know it didn't take if you put two into it you know it was just like that was my take on it that's what I believe to be true you know so do you think if you are correct in that it was the Northern Ireland people that triggered activity do you think that any part of it was about child protection or was this now about having a go at you well as we get forward I'll show you what's going to unfold here you know only that this is down and there's a reported back you wouldn't believe this you would get me sectioned you know what do you mind if I take a two and a half minute break give you a chance to wet the whistle and we'll be back with more OK we're in the conversation with William Porter and his astonishing experience with Tussler and it's equivalent in Northern Ireland we're going to pick up the story with William after we take this short break we're still in the company of William Porter who was falsely accused of abusing his children by Tussler and we're going through the timeline of it and it took a break William because it is I mean every time you have to go back through this it just you know what you went through we're in 2013 and we've had the first two meetings from Tussler you believe off the back of what happened in Northern Ireland a representative from Tussler met with you then met with your son and as we were going to the break there he told you that it was just tying off loose ends and at that point he was satisfied that your son was safe with you that's correct about a month or so later he called from another Tussler worker to come to investigate the same allegation and at this point you know I was getting angry because this was crazy what was going on and that's what prompted me to go to Freedom of Information to find to see what had been recorded about me and so I did do that and that report become available to me in 2014 Greg so it did and I'll never forget the day that I got the report I opened it up I went into my mother's room and I started to read this and I couldn't believe what I was reading the report read that Mr. Reporter had his acknowledge and showed remorse for the reported incidents and had you know saying that I had confessed like Piers very clearly relayed in the dial last week saying that I had confessed to all of us and I remember I sat down my mum so focused my legs went weak I couldn't believe it and I read it over twice again and I actually called her with his wee hatch in the room and she come and said mum come on and see this and she started to read and she just could not believe she just could not believe this What extent did they go to fabricate your admittance of these allegations? Just that I had I had nothing to do with it and I had learned from the mistakes and I had showed remorse for this which like I remember At that point again you'll start and say am I in some sort of an alternative reality here? Absolutely and at that time I went to my doctor to tell him what was happening I said I need help here I needed to go to speak to somebody and he referred me to a psychologist in St Connells down here who I met with seven times during 2004. Were you afraid that going through that process could be weaponised against you as well? No I needed I had a couple of close friends I could speak to but I was chatting them up this was four front me all the time I wasn't sleeping and I was just I needed to go to speak to somebody professional to sit down and speak and I met with with that lady down in St Connells during 2014 all the records are there to back this up what I'm saying you know So that was okay and that was taking us under the start of 2014 and my contact was still broken now what I'm going to tell you now I didn't see my daughter for 38 days over a period of time and I get a call from my ex-wife on a Thursday to say that I can pick up Rachel on the Friday to bring her home for the weekend and I find that now there's contempt obviously because there's broken contact there's a contempt someone has been issued so I speak to me closest friend he says there's something going on here don't do it, wait to get into court and address the contempt someone so I run a legal firm and they say go and pick up your daughter because it will be frowned upon in the court if you don't pick her up so I took a legal advice I went and picked up my daughter and me and mum and Castle Derrick and I brought her down to the farm and she stayed with us for over the weekend it was a beautiful spring weekend I'll never forget it I got a fella to give me a hand to do me work and I just spent all the time with Rachel so I hadn't seen her in so long and I remember mum was so delighted to see her when we were leaving Castle Derrick she hadn't seen her in so long and we came down the road on the weekend we went on the dairy on the Saturday we got Rachel a wee dress and neck for church on Sunday and we left her home on the Sunday evening she went skipping up the lane on her new dress as happy as she was that was okay on the Monday I get a call from the guard to tell me that there's been a serious allegation made by my daughter over the weekend that I've punched her four times in the stomach and I know then by that stage that this is totally crazy, crazy stuff that everything's starting to make sense to the offer, to your friends' warning to why you shouldn't have taken it completely and I actually remember I rung more in this as you were writing more I am so wrong I should listen to you more in the future he says I warned you so it was clear to wrap what they had done the guard said to me you can come on the Oscar we can come and get you 15 minutes so I went in and I'll never get it I walked into the door to the guard, the band guard and she says I suspect to see a big monster from the hand coming through the door and she smiled and sort of broke the ice but in hindsight it wasn't a great thing I know what you're saying so that was okay Greg I had been waiting to get in the court and I kept ringing up Cookstown to see when this court thing to do with the contempt and I rung this morning, I forget the morning I think it was a Tuesday morning and she says and I rushed up the road and she said it wasn't change or nothing because I hadn't got a letter she was in the court and I remember going up and they were all waiting for me they were waiting for me and I remember I went in and a solicitor who was working for a legal firm and I remember him standing up in the court and describing this terrible incident that had happened over the weekend concerning my daughter and what had happened and I stood up and I said your honour this is a setup this is an absolute joke I hadn't seen my daughter there was a contempt someone's issue and this is a clear setup here and I remember the court started saying Mr Porter you need legal representation and what happened that day was the Guardian investigation was initiated into the fabricated punch and allegation and that went on for 11 months and I had to have supervised contact during that time Greg over the 11 months that started in April and the investigation lasted 11 months until March 2015 but what happened during the time when I was under supervised contact this is massive stuff here now and I'm going to reveal when I was in Castle Derrick with my mum I noticed police were in the area PSNI and we used to sit in the red pepper restaurant outside the door and I thought maybe there was a band or something coming on in the evening but the first week had happened and the second week I got suspicious and I remember asking the police why are you hanging about so much but it very quickly became apparent that they were keeping an eye on me and now my mum was with me at this time and what really verified it one day was when my son was with us we went down and my daughter returned and my mother who was working on a shop down the street my son heard the PSNI officer say to his mum is it safe for us to leave now so they were monitoring me while I was in Castle Derrick and my mum was there did you find yourself even though your mum would want to be there bringing your mum so that there was another person there in other words so that are you twigged at this point absolutely to have a third person I would never would have at that point I was so cautious and at that point it got to the stage even when Rachel was running about I remember she used to do these things in the garden she used to come running across the garden and I would jump and throw her up in the air to get I was even scared to do that at that point because I didn't know what was going to come back I was scared at that point I was really really scared I was paranoid as well and to that level of scrutiny so at the police situation I was in Castle Derrick on one of the Tuesdays and I bumped on the lady who knew the family very well she was a professional lady and she says how are you getting on William and I says not good not good and I started to tell her what was happening and she knew the family very well and she said I can't believe this and she had knew certain stuff and she said I'm going to go forward and tell these people absolutely nonsense well I said if you want to do that you can and she relayed what she knew about stuff within the family to social worker C but that information was totally covered up so it was there was nobody active and this is a professional lady who went forward so they did it was totally buried and the scariest thing about it Greg was the lady's husband was verbally attacked by my ex wife in Castle Derrick the social services actually told her this lady I mean like with everything that you're going through it's horrendous okay but I'm thinking of the Toosla visit your son having to interact with these people in Northern Ireland were choosing to and then presumably your daughter being questioned to as it relates to these false allegations were made against you so you're being victimised here as well but the impact this is having massive and I can't even get under that I wouldn't even say because it wouldn't be fair to them to say the impact that this had on them they could say it themselves when it's right for them to say but you as a da I was watching this, it's not right during the investigation after she had to be my daughter had to be interviewed by the guardia yes she would know and I'll never forget it was a Friday night the sergeant and Lifford wrongly and he says well you have nothing to fear I think the thing this week I would say to the people here today was that people are making me say things about my daddy which are not true and I want to go and live with my daddy and that was okay we've nothing more to do with this he says I'm heading away now the weekend and give your head piece he says this is over still it's in 11 months yeah that was in the time frame of 11 months incredibly three days later I'm contacted to say I'm going to conduct another interview and the social worker who's involved in this at the time who I would call social worker Dean I I went to her and I begged her I says you must stop this interview this is child abuse and she done nothing about stopping the interview my daughter was interviewed second and thirdly by the guardia which was clear child abuse and in fairness to the sergeant when they come home he wrongly says I'm appalled these other interviews took place this never should have happened well I am really sorry and at that point we were at a state Rachel was so upset I shouldn't even have said that but I'm just I'm just visualising things now at that time it was happening and my mom and I made it our business at that point to go to the P.S. and had to tell him what was happening in Sturbar and I just wanted to at that time to Greg I was you know I'm just looking here at a couple of things I'll tell you I'm going to take one quick break because I think we're getting to a very important part of this very important part I want you to walk out of here that you feel you've got to save things in the timeline that you want so I'm going to take a two minute break and then you can reset to where you want to pick it up from is that alright? Alright I'll grab the weather for you in a couple of minutes I just want to continue my conversation here with William Porter because it's just important that William gets the space to timeline this correctly I need to get the ads out as well so it kind of works for both of us but come here so where do you want to pick up now in the last stage of I finished up by saying my mom and I took the decision to go to the P.S. now in 2015 and it's great that you give me the chance because there's a couple of early points happening in 2014 as well my mom and I went to Social Worker Day with letters to her about what was happening and the effects of this was happening and what was going on and she's still done nothing now she had been told by both children what was happening and everything and she threatened us that she was going to have Rachel putting into care she threatened me and my mom and during that time also we had a meeting with Social Worker C and she wanted to she told me and my son at a meeting that she wanted to disassociate herself from what happened at the meeting back in 2013 for Social Worker C she wanted nothing to do with it and she was having wash in her hands that's the one that was very upsetting for your son so moving then that's the two big points that I want to put on there and then moving then in 2015 we went to the PSNA and we sat with a guy and I remember his name his name was actually in Agile we sat with him and we told him everything that had happened and he just sat shaking his head and disbelief at everything so we did and he says leave this with me and I will do something about this for you because this is absolutely disgraceful what's going on and at that point I had got in touch with the inspector the police took us I was keeping them up to date what was going on here all the time you know I'll finish up the story when we get to that but anyway that was okay he done his work he went and contacted Social Services and they brought in another Social Worker this is after of course the guards had come back no investigation there was no prosecution the guestmate was all alone now since the thing was totally fabricated a bit of punching and that was dead for them so their attack on me didn't work it backfired on them actually so it did so what I believe happened then Greg they sent in Social Worker E this is the Futhless Social Worker who was involved in working with the children and she rung me and she said she wanted to meet with me and I only agreed to meet with her if I asked the questions and she gave me direct straight answers in relation to the work of the previous four Social Workers and she agreed to do that and I have to say fair play there she held her hands up on every question I asked and she says there have been massive mistakes made I want to speak to your son and I says Social Worker E not a chance would I let any people near my son after what you have done to him already and she said I would ask you to consider that because go when consider or she says William and come back to me and I went and spoke to my son and God bless him he says I will speak to her if it's going to help me with sister in this terrible situation she's in and a meeting was set up with my son and Social Worker E on the 10th of April 2015 Greg and it was I'll never forget that day as long as I live she came to the farm and she met my son and they spoke in the conservator I was over and she had working at Spuds excuse me and it was met no longer in an hour but they were still in talks and I went away and they met with each other for up on two hours and when I came back I could see Andrew was upset so I could and he went down the hall in the house I'll never forget him walking down the hall in the house and he went into his room and I looked at her and I asked her a question I says I'll call her Social Worker E but I got to know this lady very well I said what have you done to my family and here's where her words we have conducted a witch hunt against you and we have tried to set you up and I do not know how you've endured to get to where you're at but at the same time as difficult as that is to hear it validated you and everything that you knew every argument you were made you know what you knew no one within the system was recognizing it was there any relief in that at all or was it just just anger that right now you know what I've been going through how do I say it Greg there was a relief because Andrew said to me with tears in his eyes he says daddy this lady's going to help us at last and she did to a degree of course she did because she started to compile a report she met with the children in numerous times and she done up a report that fully supported Rachel coming into my care so it did and that was you know that was a massive day and when she was leaving she says apply for a residency order I says how can I apply for a residency order when I'm classed as a child abuser in southern Ireland and I'm a master and front of judge shared to be full of allegations about me and she at that point she says do it do it I was left bewildered that so I did approach a legal team we did apply for a residency order and at that point I did tell her I says now my daughter should be about straight back into my care because this was totally fabricated this allegation you know it was crazy at that point I felt that she should have been brought into my care and fair player she did admit to me down the line that that should have happened there and my daughter shouldn't have been left where she was for the next year and about you know sort of thing so go ahead if you want to go into that other thanks Donal so at that point we were running out of court a lot of times and the legal firm I had applied a legal firm as I was instructed when I stood up and I did found myself punching things but out in the court I had a legal team working for me they weren't doing as I was instructing and I could rather than I told them you aren't saying what needs to be said in the court where it's been done with all the stuff that's been done but I just don't want to rush my chat with William Porter here because it's really important and I think and as I was saying to you just before we came back here maybe not on the scale that you've experienced but this story will resonate with a lot of people out there and I think as you had a lot of opportunities to give in to stop to sort of say I can't do this anymore or the system is so against me I can't beat them I can't listen to any more advice because every time I do it almost makes things worse I think you showed incredible love of your children and strength through your friendship and it sounds like your mom was your rock there as well to stick through this so in the last few minutes then William were and we could do three or four hours on this I think and it's such an important story it would be justified but you've applied for custody of your children now at this point your daughter sorry your son is with you you were advised to do so at that point there is someone within the system admitting that you were the victim of a witch hunt effectively by the system do you know what I mean that's what it was North and South Moving forward in the year 2016 I'm in court and judge and she brings Rachel under my care after me having a lengthy battle with my ex-wife Barson she brings her under my care and I'll never forget her words she says this is a great day for Rachel you know and I remember my legs went sort of weak for the right reasons this time and I remember I came outside the court and I sat down in the car down to the bottom of my hull and I just was totally overcome and I just give thanks to the Lord that because I had prayed in 2009 that would get her back and it took me seven years and that's a number of completion and she was back after seven years you know we got her home and really then you know it was just wonderful that she could be reunited and spend her time back in the farm and be with her granny and Granda and she loved her granny so much they were so close you know and he desperately you know when she was away because they were so close and him probably bottling it up I don't know if he was a very or was he a very expressive person but the grandas tend to sort of they did they bottled it up they broke a few times they feel it but they don't show it necessarily so we got her back really then Greg I run into the health difficulties myself I developed I took a frozen shoulder on my left side I moved to the other side during 2016 and 7 2016 and 17 my arms I couldn't get my arms up above my shoulder height at all and I went my friend took me for scans and nothing was shown up in the scans and it ended up it was just pure pressure and the body was just starting to shut down other things too I found a cyst so I did I thought the worst thank the lord it wasn't and you know those things were all going on and during this time 2016 I went to Pierce about the Southern situation because there was getting no joy from Tuzzo they wouldn't eradicate the records and Pierce got involved and God bless Pierce I just cannot thank him much for what he'd done you know he started to work for me on the Southern side on that end of things so the records cleared and even apology from Tuzla an apology from Tuzla and we got a review set up into the case in 2017 and I met with a guy from Tuzla down there on 9 occasions also 7 with the clinical psychologist off 9 with this guy and he recommended a full apology so we did and he stated he says the two cases are unextricably linked so that you know that was a recommendation and you know then moving forward on 20 2016 I got the residency order Pierce become involved started to work on the Southern thing for me which I would never wouldn't be here today I can't reiterate enough how much Pierce helped me and the review was carried out of the case full apology recommended and that apology come in July 2018 and that was a massive lift my father I remember when my mum read it to him he was it was uncontrollable in the room and it took such a weight that's maybe when the pressure was relieved for him that was his point you know what I mean you had the different but that was the time where he you know the like the old steam cooker it was such a relief vindication you know it certainly was because allegations like this cut through your parents hearts like a knife because they're they're worried about their grandchildren but they're worried about their son your son's your son it doesn't matter if he's 8 or if he's 40 80 still well this is where I have to say my mum never doubted me for one second she never doubted she was a woman of great faith and you know I had a wee girl she had come to me one time she says William they're saying well things about you down in the local village she heard them say in the shop and she confronted them you know and she had the courage to come forward to me I didn't even think about that side of it there was so much of that but that's all nonsense Greg I know but I didn't in all of this I kind of in my head was thinking this is all private behind closed doors but of course it's not you know the word gets out which is painful and that's painful for the wider family as well so what's the situation then two other things I need to tell you happen in 2017 me and along with so what I'd done my fear was that there's other people out there I knew if one man had taken his life who Pat had told me about Pat left Dublin one night he said William I'm leaving a man here very similar to yourself I'm going to call a wee for a cup of tea in the way back and Pat he didn't show up and he rang me at 11 o'clock to tell me that the man had taken his life you know this is this is why I'm here today Greg because I want to stop this happening to another family in Northern Ireland or Southern Ireland someone has to be put in place and these people in Northern Ireland haven't been dealt with in any way whatsoever I don't know we're waiting for word to come back from the minister what Tuzla have done regarding the south but it's Northern Ireland is my massive concern at this point that these people are still in their place of work which is like it's shocking it's absolutely shocking but there was two meetings then in 2017 that I had I finally got a meeting with the CEO of the Western Trust me and my mum on the 28th of September 2017 and I asked her 12 questions the first question I asked her was are you responsible for these five social workers and she says I am 100% and to proceed I asked her another 11 questions she answered no comment to every single one of the questions 11 questions based on the welfare of the children she answered no comment every time I did say there when I was leaving I said you're in absolute disgrace to your position and I just I remember looking out at the Galvan hospital seeing people walking about I said those people I will never stop until I get this sorted out for what has happened here then a few weeks later I went to Social Worker E on the 10th of November so it had I think yes and I went to her and I says Social Worker E I know her name so well but I know I can't say it here I says I want you to initiate a review under the case what has happened and she said I won't be doing that William you got what you wanted you're looking for a stage for yourself I says you told me one day that you hadn't got to the bottom of me yet and I says I'm not here for a stage and they prevent this happening to another family and she wouldn't budge and I did when I was leaving I says you know you have a chance here the day they put this right but if you don't you will only fuel me and you know me now you have come this far you will only fuel me to get to the end of this and get something done and her words to me were and I have to say I had a regard for but here's what when I lost my regard for her she says the trust have dealt with a lot of you and their time so there's sort of an institutionalised we dictate what goes on and right so so that brings us on down to 2018 because we're sorry I know of a few important crises in your life so I've been called worse go ahead William the apology came out in 2010 I just had to go back and say there was two meetings in 2017 you know and one final I had a meeting that I have to tell you about which was massive I had been telling the chief inspector over all the police a man who got to know pretty well and I had a meeting with him in September 2018 and I went to the meeting he wasn't aware they had the apology this time but I had been keeping him in the picture what was happening regarding everything that was going on and I went down to him I had a two hour meeting with him he was with me and I let the whole thing down and took it from start to finish and I says my good man we have the final piece that Jake saw here the day and you have a job to do and I threw down the apology in front of him and he said to me this is terribly serious these people need to remove from their place of work well I said you have the authority to do it it needs to be done he says I will see if there's something done I felt it was criminal and I felt it was criminal too he says we have to go through the criminal investigation unit and answer him but I had that meeting with him 2018 and I never heard a word from him after that not one word I went through the ombudsman and they came back with nothing to investigate and are you pursuing that in the north like is it important you want your record expunged cleared up there too I mean does any part of you say you know what I've been at this now since 2010-2011 I'm going to let it slide what motivates you to keep at it what motivates me to keep at this Greg is these people are still in a place of work it's for other people not to be this not to happen to somebody else something has to be done within the system to stop this happening in Northern Ireland again and this is years on down the line I even tried this summer to meet with all this stuff and make her aware of proceedings at the concluded in Southern Ireland last December in the High Court but she wasn't prepared to meet with me so it's a clear cover up totally in Northern Ireland by the PSNN what is the root cause of this is any part of this or was any part of this about concerns for children's welfare or at some point did you run rub people up the wrong way no and then you were going to do you get where I'm coming from every meeting gracious I never raised my voice what was the motivation do you get where I'm coming from it's not the child welfare it must be you or something I'll tell you what I think happened I think there was a light hold at the very beginning and social workers didn't act those five social workers didn't act and had been abandoned to the children and instead of dealing with a problem that was very early the whole thing got a snowball effect and there was a snowball they couldn't handle at the end and I kept hanging in there and there was a snowball they couldn't handle at the end so that's where we're at today that led us under the court last week I've told it there's a couple of these things that I must hear there there's so much but I think to be honest with you what you have told us it's shocking that it can't happen again but unfortunately it is happening and I hope in you speaking out with the backing that you have but I think we can't expect change from say for instance what's happening in Northern Ireland unless it's recognised there was a problem you see you can't move forward and sort of make sure this doesn't happen to other people until they say we completely got this wrong and what we did was wrong well Greg this is an opportunity now to approach Northern Ireland and get this opened up and get this addressed and get it sorted out and I would hope that they would be able to come forward and apologise in the north as well this has happened in the south because it's clear to see as social worker he admitted to me as the Tuzla representative who carried out the investigation into the case said I sat in a meeting of Tuzla and he admitted to myself and a member from Nile my friend that this was clearly come from Northern Ireland they orchestrated this this was a witch hunt and I have to compliment them all I've got to give them 10 out of 10 they give it a damn good try well they nearly destroyed you only for your own resilience and the people around you and Deputy Doherty's interference they may have succeeded they probably would I just want to finish me saying I know I'm probably on here far longer and I should be well it's Wednesday now it's important William go and finish up with what you want to say people would come and say to me how did you do that or how did you get through that and what I would say to people is I read Sam 51 every morning I'm a son of myself and my son is before me Greg I'm not a perfect person I'm not a perfect parent and I want to say to forgive all these people who have done what they've done to me family if they were here now I would say to them I forgive you and the only reason I got through this was there's two verses that stand out for me so much as my mum used to always say this to me I can do all three he gives me strength and no weapon farmed against me she'll prosper and the only reason that I'm here today is because of my belief full belief in the Lord Jesus Christ or I would not be here today and I would never have got this far Pierce helped me and had close friends around me but that's the reason I'm suddenly here today to tell this story and I would pray that something could be done that this would not happen to another family and I would ask Jesus, me and my pray on that note listen thank you for all your time this morning I appreciate it's a very difficult story to have to relive because in time lining it and picking up particular meetings and instances you happen to go through that again that emotion that you felt on those days but I think as you say it's important and we need to change the system that you know it needs to be held to account but William for now listen thanks so much thank you Greg for having me and thanks to you