 Okay, so today we're going to have an interactive anti-harassment and discrimination training. And you know, one of the key successes for this will be if it is better than a pre-recorded session that we often in our workplaces have to watch, and it's interactive, you guys are actively participating, then that'll be a win for the day for certainly for all of us. So I do want to start out by thanking the National Science Foundation who sponsors the Earthscope Consortium and also probably funds most of your research experiences this summer. I've introduced myself, but I also want to introduce three of our staff who will be working with you. So Kelsey Russo Nixon runs a GeoLaunchpad summer internship program, Anika Knight runs the recess internship program and also the student careers internship program for Earthscope. And Justin Sweet facilitates the URISE internship program, which is a summer research internship program for students in seismology. I did also want to mention just briefly that this workshop that we're going to participate in was developed by the REU community. So faculty members and other program facilitators like myself got together and we recognized that there was a great need for having a resource like this for our community. And so we put it together in order to try to create change and to really empower all of you to go forward as the next generation of geoscientists to make change within your own communities. Okay, so just a little bit of zoom etiquette. We want you, you know, if possible to mute your microphone just to cut down on background noise. There's a lot of you in this session. So if you're not speaking, go ahead and mute yourself. But we do want you to be able to speak. So know where the unmute button is and I think most of you probably have that down by now. You know, have your camera on if you can, especially while we're in the breakout sessions. That's really a great time. But if you just step away for a minute, feel free to shut your camera off. It is nice to feel like we're talking to people. So I don't know how many of you have ever presented on zoom. But if you present everybody with their camera off, it's sort of like you've gone into a closet and are talking to yourself. And it's kind of a very weird experience for the presenters and the other speakers. So if you don't mind, keep your cameras on if you have a possibility of that. We asked you limit distraction so you can fully attend to the session, which would include avoiding multitasking, like replying to emails and text messages and what not during the session. And that'll really help you get the most out of our time together today. All right. Justin, do you want to introduce our safe space? Sure thing. Yeah. Thanks, Michael. So we've got a couple of couple guidelines here to help help create a safe space for today's training. And particularly, I think this is this is important when we have subjects that can be, you know, sensitive and perhaps upsetting in some cases. So, you know, we want to make sure that the things that are said here today remain just in this space. So please refrain from discussing or sharing any personal information or stories or things that you may hear shared in some of our breakout groups that are coming up. We encourage everyone to speak using I statements. So speaking from your own experience as opposed to speaking generally and listening is very important. So make sure you're listening actively and being respectful of others' time and their opinions, even if you don't necessarily agree, but giving everybody a chance to be heard. Part of listening, well, is a process that we refer you to step up and step out. So if you've already spoken in one of these discussions and you have another thing to say, but maybe there are some other people that haven't had a chance to speak yet, maybe just step back for a moment and allow some of those other some of those quieter voices to be heard. And if you are one of those quieter voices that maybe hasn't spoken up, you make an effort to to contribute to the conversation and allow your voice to be heard. And then lastly, just make sure that we're discussing ideas and not people. So if you have a comment on something that somebody said, you know, make sure that what you're what you're addressing or discussing or agreeing or disagreeing with is the idea rather than a person, you know, help keep things keep things moving and and flowing well. So I'll stop there. Great. Thanks, Justin. So here's what we want you to get out of today's session. Number one, we hope that you'll be able to identify behaviors and norms that foster, you know, groups, workplaces that are free of harassment and discrimination. We hope that you'll be able to distinguish behaviors that are harassing and discriminating versus those that aren't. And it isn't always as clear as, you know, it might seem. And hopefully we'll have some scenarios that will help you spend some time thinking about that a little bit. One of the really important ones that we all as program leaders feel is important is that we hope you leave with some idea about how you might report an incident of harassment or discrimination. And and also, we hope that you'll leave feeling empowered to intervene. Should you witness a case where there is a harassment or discrimination that occurs so that you'll know how to act and assess the situation properly? So those are the four things that we want you to leave with. As Justin said, sometimes, you know, the conversations can be difficult, especially depending on various people's personal experiences. Some things may be closer to home than others. If people, you know, need to step out for a little while down here in your, you know, fancy emojis that you can use for Zoom, which we were just commenting now, they actually move around a little bit. If you click on the coffee mug, it will say that you're away. And that's fine. Feel free to step out if necessary if you need to take a little break. Do know that we may shoot you an individual chat just to check on you to make sure everything's OK. But use that as a chance if you're taking a break from participating so that we know that you've stepped away and will be back in. The other piece that goes into this is we encourage you to lean into the work. We recognize that some of these topics may be challenging and some of them may be personal. We hope that you'll be willing to experience a little bit of discussion, just discomfort in order to gauge in discussions with your peers and look at this as a chance to learn. So even though it might be a little bit uncomfortable at times, I think there's a lot of really important learning that can go forward. And the next time some of these things come up, the discomfort will decrease over time as you have broader exposure to these topics. OK. So I wanted to start off with an activity that we'll do as a group. And what I'm going to ask you to do is take a look at this plot and I'll introduce it so that we don't have to read all of the little fine font that's down below. This is a plot from a 2014 study. They conducted a survey of archaeologists who were working in the field, so not dissimilar from geoscientists who go out and collect field data. And they surveyed them to learn more about their experiences that happened around reported unwanted physical contact or other sorts of sexual harassment. So each of the dots in this plot represents one individual. The red dots represent women in the group, the men represented by blue dots. And I believe at the time they didn't include other gender criteria because it wasn't on the survey or the other option. And I just can't remember the detail was I think the end might have been so small that they didn't include them on the plot because there was only a very small handful of them. But the full paper can be made available to you if you wanted to look a little more at that. So I'd like you to take a few minutes and just look at the plot. Look at the data and reflect a little bit on what you see. And I'd like you to type your response into the back. But before you type it, before you hit send, just type it into the chat, what you're observing. And we're going to hit send altogether. So everybody pulled off on hitting enter. Just type your ideas so they'll all come at once. What stands out to you? OK, give about a few more minutes. If you are ready to hit send, you have your ideas in the chat. Hit your thumbs up and I'll just do a quick scan of what I can see from the gallery. Looking like a few more minutes would be useful. So hang on, don't hit enter yet. Don't hit enter yet that other people type in the chat. OK, go ahead and hit enter into your comments and then take a minute and scroll through the flood of incoming comments. Yeah, lots of good points being made. Absolutely. Yeah, I'm just taking a minute to scan through myself. Yeah, lots and lots of really good comments in there. I obviously can't read through all of them, but you know, the few are standing out to me. So right. So there this the experience was not even across genders. They were experienced differently. It was one that certainly stood out. Many people noted that. Another one that stood out to me was few people were satisfied by the reporting outcome and probably one that stood out to me the most was the number of people who were aware of the mechanism to report the contact or conduct or contact was really, really small. And so this was actually one of the things that the group of us who worked on writing this curriculum realized was that students who go off to RU summers often may be in new environments and be completely unaware of how to report an incident of harassment or discrimination if it were to take place. And so that became a motivating factor for us was that that that column in particular were only 25 out of, you know, six, seven hundred people knew how to report should something happen. And we saw that as certainly problematic for our own communities. So we wanted to make some change to have a sense of how people could find it. So if you haven't noticed right now, Kelsey just chatted in the link to this paper. So I know some people put a comment in they wanted to see the full paper. You can take a look at that there. But in the meantime, that paper was from 2014. So I wanted to try to connect this to people's individual experiences. So Val, if you would initiate the poll. No, I actually forgot to make it, Michael, I'll make it now. Sorry about that. OK. But maybe you can go ahead and give me a minute. OK, so yeah, so we can go ahead here and we'll pop the poll in just a second as soon as we get that put in. So I think one of the things that we do want to note about this is it's obviously more than just occurring in the field. So while this paper was focused on fieldwork, fieldwork is certainly a place where harassment and discrimination can occur. But that's not the only place. It can happen in classrooms. It can happen in conferences, just like you see here. And so we want to consider this full range of experiences about where these sorts of things can happen. So this particular photo on the right is the American Geophysical Union. And suppose just a photo I found online, so it isn't to suggest that there's something that can happen, particularly the AGU, if you happen to recognize this venue. But it is the sort of place that represents our field and can be somewhere where these sorts of things can take place. The other thing that I'll point out is that, you know, this is a plot of the diversity in the geosciences. And it turns out that we're really not very diverse. In this particular plot, I just happened to show the percentage of undergraduate students who are women versus faculty who are women in the geosciences. And then if we go even further and talk a little bit about intersectionality, where we have women who happen to be of underrepresented minority background, then we're really getting to very, very small percentages in the geosciences. So it's an important topic because of the lack of diversity within our field that we want to make sure that we're raising awareness for everyone around these sorts of issues. OK, before I go to this activity, Val, I just want to check in to see are we good for the poor or should we just move on? OK, for the sake of time, I'm going to suggest that we just maybe move ahead. So for the for the next activity, what I'd like to do is ask people to we're going to separate you into some breakout groups. And we're going to have a group facilitator in there. And that group facilitator will have a link that they can share with you and the link is going to have a Google Doc that we can all hop on. And the Google Doc is going to contain three terms. And what I would like us to do working in a group is to combine all three of these terms to generate a description that is forms a complete concept or an idea. So you might think about it if you're familiar with Mad Libs. You might think about it as a reverse Mad Libs. So in Mad Libs, there are all these structural sentences and you go through and you plug in words that are of your own creation. So we're going to do the opposite. Instead of getting the sentences provided and you plug in the words, we're going to provide you with words and you're going to build sentences out of those words to create something. So I have an example here on the screen that I'll show you. So I have beach, relax and ball. And so, you know, I combine those to form a couple of sentences that say beach days are the best. I love to relax in the sun while reading a book. I also really enjoy taking my girls to play mini golf. I always pink the pink ball if it's available. So the reason why we want you to combine these terms is because it helps us see a little bit of your understanding. We want to know what you already know about this topic. We know that many of you probably get some background training on harassment and discrimination at your own campuses. And so as you create these things, you we get some insight into what you already know in these topics. Sort of like in this case, you could probably learn a few things about me from taking a look at the sentences that I constructed, right? So what things might you say that you now know about me based off of my sentences? Yeah, I have two little girls and they like to challenge me at PuttPy when they get a chance at the beach. So great. I really want what you said, Chris, if you wanted to share with the group. Oh, yeah, I said that I thought maybe witness would have been a better word than bystander because bystander implies that you are standing by. So all of our sentences ended up being like, I don't want to be a bystander instead of maybe like a lot asking us to think like, what would you do if you witnessed something like that? Oh, yeah. But I think we all ended up on the same page, which is like. Harassment is unwanted, and if you see something where someone's uncomfortable, then you should. Try to step in or or reported or something. I think we all imagine that sense of responsibility. Mm hmm. I hear that standard has been used a little bit more recently and in some trainings to be an upstander. Instead of standing on. Right, that's maybe what we hope everybody leaves at the end of this session, knowing how to be an upstander as opposed to a bystander. Great. Well, so I don't know about the other groups. I only knew it was in one of them, but I did notice that there was I did come back in and hear that maybe it wasn't quite as fun as the beach ball one that maybe we should have given you a warm up set of three words and then a go for it set of three words. But I was kind of impressed with the ideas that came out in our group. We didn't get as much time to talk about it as we would have liked. But it did give a good sense of some of the terms that we were talking about. So. What I'm going to do is share in the chat with everybody. A link and this is a way for us to to do a gallery walk. So before I press send, I just want to clarify what a gallery walk is. So a gallery walk is a way where we can go around and take a look at other groups work and their ideas. And we can use the features of Google Docs to leave some comments. So you can either put some notes below other people's stories and you might use sentence starters. And when you're thinking about your gallery walk, you might use sentence starters like I like. You might use I wonder about or you might use a sentence starter like what if as you're taking a look at people's notes. So you can use comments if you want to use the commenting feature or you can just sort of add some some text to the actual word Google Doc. So here's the link and that should give you access to all of the other word groups and the other Google Docs that everybody use. These are very beautifully written. We might need to save a few of these for future vignettes to include in some of our workshops. These are great. Hey, I haven't seen too many comments getting posted on too many. But if people want to share any, let me just jump to one more. I think I've now looked at most of them. Anika's group got like very story telling ish like it. Yeah, we're having a good time over there. Yeah, one. Now we really wanted to read their stories, but they were beautiful. They were they're really beautiful. They did notice a common theme in my groups, which was everyone. Everyone described something that we're going to talk about later, which is just like, what do you do when you see harassment occurring? What do you do when you are the bystander? Help that one of our words was bystander, but everyone described appropriate actions, which is really nice. Nice. Do we just say comments out loud or should we break them somewhere? You can either type them into the chat or you can offer them. Yeah, if you want to share, somebody wants to share, please do. Sure. Something I noticed just in all of these is that most of the sentences were kind of focusing on what if it happened? Like, what do you do if you experience harassment or like, what is harassment in general? But there weren't any that focused on like, what if you are the one being reported, like what if you do something, which I thought was interesting. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. So what if you are the person who said something, you know, something that that offended somebody in that? Yeah, I should say, like it isn't it isn't there's none that are from like the point of view of like that. Which I thought was interesting. Yeah. I think that's a really good point, because I think we all like to be like, quote, like the good guy, you know, be like, I stepped in, but it's a lot harder to gracefully kind of say, like, oh, I did something that made someone uncomfortable. Like, how do I handle that and change my course of behavior? Yeah. Especially when it doesn't get called out, right? Like, sometimes you might say something that makes you you realize that something uncomfortable has maybe happened, but nobody says anything. So you have two choices, right? Like, you can either let it go on or you can decide to address it. And I think you're right. It's difficult in that scenario to to how do you go about addressing that? What some people have suggested in other trainings is to say, oops, no, gosh, I'm sorry. I, you know, I realize that that's could be offensive. That kind of thing. And just, you know, actually acknowledging it versus pretending it didn't happen, which is kind of what I know I've done before. Oops. And it's a great suggestion, because in these conversations, none of us will end up being perfect with them. And I don't think there should ever be that expectation that we are, right? That's part of the reality of engaging in this, that the mistakes will be made. And the key is is doing exactly what Val just said was acknowledging it when it happens as best you can and apologizing and, you know, clarify as best you can that situation. OK, welcome back, everybody, from your breakout discussions. Hopefully they were good conversations. We did we got through exactly two. So we were a little slower moving and what we had good conversations about the ones that we did. So I hope that others had good conversations as well. One of the things that I think I want to do at this point, because Zoom obviously moves a little slower, and I'll make a note to myself that transitioning in and out of Zoom takes a little longer than it does when we do this in person. I do want to note for everybody here in this group that while we use the Earth Scope Handbook as an example, each of you have a set of policies that will be guiding your own programs. And so hopefully you already have a handbook that goes into detail about what that looks like. Our complaints would be and not complaints. Our offenses would be documented and reported to people within your program. However, if you don't have that, you should go back prepared to ask for that. So I would hope that all of you would want to be not in the category that we saw on the initial Clancy diagram of not knowing how to report incidents. Shouldn't you witness them? Should something occur? So please be proactive about that. And if you're not sure how to get that copy, reach out to any of us and we'd be happy to help you get a copy of the handbook that's appropriate for your own program. I know the other thing, we're going to be running a little short on time, but I know that people need to leave at this point. People need to leave at 430 to catch a bus. So I do want to make sure that we can accommodate that as much as possible. So I think for this last session, what I'd like to do is make sure that we spend a little bit of time talking about the upstate, the idea of an upstander or a bystander. You know, what do you do if something like this happens? Because the reality is most of us are going to have that opportunity where we happen to be in a meeting where somebody says something that's a little offensive. And the question of what do you do is a really important one. So I'm going to flip over and share my screen again. And we'll talk a little bit about how we might handle that. I mean, through some of those already. OK, so yeah, something happens awkward in a meeting, right? Something that maybe makes somebody feel uncomfortable. Maybe it's something that somebody else notices. And you want to say to something but you're not quite sure whether you should. You're you're somebody who's witnessed this. So what might prevent people from acting, right? So there's a variety of things that might affect this, right? The social influence of the situation. Are you a position, a person with power or without power in that situation? Oftentimes in group setting, there's a diffusion of responsibility where we assume that because nobody's in charge, it's not our place to take action. It's similar to that, but slightly different is this sort of sense of what we call pluralistic ignorance, where if everybody seems to think it's OK, maybe it is OK. Like maybe we're, you know, we start to start to second guess ourselves and we wonder, well, maybe we're misreading the situation. And in other cases, maybe it's just simply because we're we're afraid, we're an intern and we're worried that maybe somebody will retaliate against us or do something against us. We won't get to go and field work like we were hoping to do. So these are all reasons that people might not act. But what we want to do is hopefully give you a couple of tools to help you assess the situation. So we might start up here at the top. So something happens and we might start up here in the top and we might go through this sort of a thought process. We might wonder, is this biased? Is this somebody's personal biases influencing them? And maybe they're just not really aware of the situation. Like maybe they don't mean it in truly a mean spirited way. Maybe this is not intended to be hurtful or cutting, but somebody just has a sense of biases inside of themselves that they maybe aren't even aware of. And the next step would be then thinking a little bit about whether or not the situation is urgent. So how pressing is the, you know, how pressing or egregious is the situation that you're facing? Did somebody say something that is just so awful that you can't possibly let it go by? Or was it something that seemed maybe not quite so harmful and maybe you would handle it differently because it's not quite so severe? You might also consider how responsible you are in this situation. So are you leading a team? Are you responsible for this group of people or running this meeting? And you might also then think about what are your options? What can I do? And how important to this of what can I do? How costly would it be for me to actually take some action? And by cost, I mean, how costly would it be in terms of the impact that it could have on you potentially going forward? So could it be a scenario where maybe there'd be some repercussions for you? Or in some cases it maybe would you be physically unsafe? And so again, we're talking about a full range of experiences from being in a meeting or maybe somebody says something insensitive like an intensive comment in a meeting that is a bias or is it something egregious where students are out on field work and there's one African American student in the group and there's a number of people driving by yelling comments out of a truck window which is not unheard of depending on where you're doing field work and that might actually be an unsafe situation. So there are really five ways that you can act. So these are called the five Ds for bystander intervention. The first one would be you could directly confront the situation. So you could be firm and clear and concise about it and you could take a direct action and Val gave a really nice example of that and Val used it when you realized the way she used it was when you realized that maybe you've said something inappropriate but you could also flip that around and if somebody else in your group says something and you're sort of like, ouch, that really hurts. Like, did you really mean it that way? You could begin to directly confront it or that felt offensive to me when somebody says something. The second D is you can distract from the situation. So you could try to take an indirect approach to de-escalate the situation and this could be something like changing the subject. I like to use an example that I had that happened in an AGU meeting one time where I had a student. I happened to be passing by a student and a faculty member speaking in a different language, Spanish, and I couldn't understand the conversation but it felt very uncomfortable to me and I wasn't sure that something bad was going on. So I happened to grab one of my friends walking by who spoke Spanish and asked him, could you just ask this guy a question for me? And we just had a random conversation and it was enough to break up the conversation and the situation stopped and we were able to resolve the situation. You can delegate and sometimes this may be to seek help from a third party. So maybe it's not appropriate or safe for you to act but maybe you wanna intervene by asking for help from a third party. So in the case of field work, maybe you wanna ask for help from the local law enforcement to help support the scenario or maybe you wanna ask for help by providing additional staff to go with you to some field sites. Maybe there's a way that you can delegate that responsibility. You can also delay. And so delay is a common one often that comes up is at a minimum checking in with the person afterwards who felt the slight. So are you okay? When I was with you, I noticed that this happened. I wonder if you're doing okay. And so sometimes just acknowledging the situation is enough to help that person feel validated that what they experienced was real and that can often go a long way to helping to support that person. And from there, then you might go back into some of the other Ds and check in. Do you want them to take action? Do you want them to document the situation? Which is the final D. So all of these can be good ways for us to interact with our group should we be a bystander? So I wanna go through a couple of sample strategies for these that go into a little more detail. And I think these are useful because they're gonna be more designed to intervene in the types of situations that you're likely to encounter. So things like questioning, asking them, did you repeat that? Oftentimes when somebody says something that's a little bit of a slight to people, if you call them out on it and say, could you repeat that please? That's enough to make them backpedal. And it also creates a pin in the conversation where everybody knows what's going on. And so that's an important way that you can do that. You can also arouse dissonance by saying, I'm really surprised to hear that you would say something like that. I think we were just last week in a training together on anti-harassment and discrimination. That would be the sort of thing. We talked about, you say, we talked about a scenario just like this in our training last week, where you can sort of cause them to get them to think about what they're saying. Because oftentimes people may not be aware that they're making a statement that's really offensive. And so you can help create that pin in the conversation again to check that. Or you can disagree. You might say something like, I don't think that's a gay thing at all, right? So I don't like the way you're using that term. So you can use a variety of different subtle ways to intervene in those sorts of scenarios. Oops. And then of course, whoops. Now my computer's getting real crazy. And then you can always pivot or change the conversation. How about that weather we're having? Again, if it's really out of left field, again, it makes a mark in the conversation where everybody remembers what's happened and you've changed the topic and you can move on. And then this final one is the example that Val gave of using ouch or I'm really uncomfortable with what you've said there. And in virtual meeting tools, you can often use chat or emotion cons to express your impact that that comment may have had on you. So those are really practical tools that you can use in order to sort of diffuse situations or call attention to what's going on. And if you haven't tried them before, I can tell you from my own personal experience, the first time you do, it will feel scary and that's okay. But it won't feel as scary the second time. In fact, you'll feel better that you did it and it'll feel less scary the second time that you step up and the third time you step up. And hopefully after a few of those, you won't have to step up anymore. So it's your meeting, your work spaces that you have to go to every day. So I hope that you will be feeling a little bit empowered today, how some of these things can help you feel better about going to work and you can also support your colleagues. So all of those are pretty handy tools. So we can make these slides available to you so that you can have them for a reference for some of those key questions, as well as a couple other resources. So we have a video clip that we were gonna show, how to pull this all together. Oh, you wanna show it? Okay. So it's worth it. Yeah. Okay, so here's what. It's not good enough to go, but this is very short. Okay, so these are very short video clips. So I am gonna say thank you very much for your attendance and your participation. I appreciate all of you being brave and leaning into taking up an active role in participating today. If you do need to head off to catch a bus, we understand. But if a few of you wanna stick around, I'll share a video clip that we can take a look at and then we can sort of continue on a short conversation. So again, thank you very much. And if not, we'll switch over to this video clip and we'll see if maybe we can't employ a few of our D's here in this conversation. So be thinking actively, if you're a bystander, what would you do in this conversation? And I just need to get to the right window and share my screen with audio. Can you all see, you can give support on the screen? You can. People seeing that? Okay, awesome. All right, here we go. So I think really the best way for me to explain this is to do a demonstration. And the name of efficiency, Caroline, you've got this already. So why don't you hang back and clean up the library so that when we get back, we can all get started right away. Is that okay? Thanks, you're the best. Okay, guys, come with me. You know what, I'm gonna say back to, I'm gonna play the clip one more time, but I want you to pay attention to it again. So hopefully you've gotten a glimpse of the overall scenario. So now I want you to go in and focus in to some of the language that they use and some of the details of the scenario when you watch this a second time. Okay, here we go. So I think really the best way for me to explain this is to do a demonstration. And the name of efficiency, Caroline, you've got this already. So why don't you hang back and clean up the library so that when we get back, we can all get started right? Do you want to chat about it without? I don't know. We've got a little spotty there. Is that okay? Thanks, you're the best. Yeah, Michael, the video is not playing completely for me. I'm not sure if everybody else is seeing it. Yeah, it kind of stopped for me too. Sorry about that. So I apologize. So I think what's happening is my computer is slowly getting zoomed out for the day. So I'm gonna just share the link to the video here in the chat for people. But hopefully people got to see enough of it. So it's at, if you wanna see, watch it on your own screen, go to about nine minutes and 40 seconds. That's the start of that clip. But what's going on in that scenario? Those of you who were able to see the clip at least one and one and a half times potentially. What was happening? Feel free to unmute yourself or raise your hand and we'll... She was singling out the lady, Caroline, I believe her name was. He was singling her out, not making her feel involved and kind of telling her kind of what to do in that scenario. Yeah, other thoughts? It's a bit sexist where he's putting the only female in the group in a traditional stereotypical gender role to basically do dishes instead of be trained for her job. Mm-hmm. I think another important thing was her body language because she agreed even though she didn't want to and no one else picked up on that or stood up for her. Right. Yeah, good point. Doug, Douglas. Sure. Something I noticed was that instead of being a bystander, though I'm not sure what his name was, but he stayed back, he insisted that he stayed back and helped her clean. Kind of upstanding, like we just discussed briefly. Who has power in that scenario? The presenter guy. Yeah, the guy who was leading, who was doing most of the talking in that scenario, he clearly seemed to be like an advanced grad student or a postdoc maybe in a lab setting. Yeah, Michael put in a really good comment in there. He also tried to use a very thinly-veiled compliment to make it seem less bad, right? So he basically said, oh, yeah, you already have this, right? Like, you don't need this, you just stay back. So what are the longer-term implications of this for that particular student? What would that mean if this happened all the time? She wouldn't be learning as much as the other people and she would just continuously be left behind. Mm-hmm, right. It's a really good chance for a compounding sort of scenario to build, right? So falling behind, not doing as well, right? And so now all of a sudden they're behind in the program and the grad student, who knows, they may be writing recommendation letters, right? And so these things begin to sort of snowball. Yeah, she'll get walked over again and again and feel isolated from the group. So one of the things I ask you to think about is what could you do? So thinking about our bystander intervention training that we just talked about, what are some things that we could have done? What are some scenarios? I'd say to ask the question kind of state why she has to stay back. Mm-hmm. It's a good one. Sure. Yeah, asking that question. Why does she have to stay back by herself? Maybe like, not necessarily challenged, but say like, we can all clean up afterwards and it'd make it a lot quicker so then everyone can join. Right. That's really great. I like it. I like it. And I think it would be obvious in us, even though you would be sort of flipping it around a little bit, that everybody else in the room would be understanding why you were making that comment for the most part. Yeah. Yeah, somebody suggests, I thought everybody was gonna get to see the demonstration today, right? So that's a great one, right? Another great idea of how to ask that question in a way, you know, a good suggestion. How about, why might somebody not choose direct? So we've all talked about a number of different questions and there's a lot coming through the chat. Yeah, Michael was just asking, what do you do just call it out, right? Why not direct? It's intimidating to kind of speak directly about it because you might be targeted next in these kinds of situations if you do speak out. Right. Right, for sure. Fear of retaliation. Yeah, what if this student has done this to somebody else in the past, right? If you've seen a pattern of this elsewhere, yeah, hmm, a really, yeah, a really good suggestion here from Elizabeth about it too. It might put too much of a spotlight on Caroline when she already feels uncomfortable, right? So maybe if you draw too much attention to it, it might actually, you know, she might perceive that as making the situation worse for her, right? She's only gonna face more abuse going forward. Yeah, all really good suggestions and really good, thoughtful reflection. Cause this scenario, this is what is going to be the most common type of encounter that you'll have with this where it is subtle. And it is often like, did I just hear that, right? You know, those sorts of self-questioning. And so having strategies and being prepared to act in these situations is really important. So I'm gonna allow everybody to see how it turns out on their own because my bandwidth seems to be lagging. So I'm gonna let you see the end of it on your own because I'm not sure I'll be able to successfully play it for everybody, but Val, you had your hand up. So do you wanna add something? You're muted. No, that's fine. We can just wrap up. Okay. Okay. Well, I appreciate everybody sticking around for the show at the end. Hopefully the show at the end was a little bit of a reward to get to see a scenario like this. If you are interested in seeing more examples, this whole video has a lot of different types of examples taking place across the university. It's by Cornell Health. And it's worth taking a look at that whole clip if you haven't seen it before. So again, thanks very much for participating today and for engaging in this conversation with us. I really appreciate it getting a chance to meet you even briefly over Zoom. And hopefully I'll get to see some of you at maybe at AGU in this fall. We'll see you in person. So thanks everybody. Yeah, thanks everybody.