 And generally what the bill does the first few sections of the bill amend existing law in title 72, which is the sexual assault title chapter in title 13, which is crimes and criminal procedure and it focuses a lot on issues around consent. And so because this doesn't pertain necessarily to your jurisdiction I'm just going to kind of scooch down but just so you know what the first half of the bill is is straight up judiciary. So I think what you're interested in is starting on page for on in section for the first one being data collection and reporting. And you'll see there that starting online 20 on the page for set on or before September 1 of 2024 and then by annually after that, the Department of Public Safety is to provide a statistical report to the legislature based on data from the national incident based reporting system and the Vermont judiciary on a number of following issues. And just a little background and I think that Representative Colburn will talk to you about it when she testifies is this section was developed in cooperation with the Department of Public Safety as well as the crime research group. And the network against domestic and sexual violence on trying to figure out what information is available how can you best aggregate it and then condense it into usable information for the General Assembly so I did just want you to know that there was that input. So you'll see on top of page five. So starting with subdivision a is that there to report on the number of sexual violence cases reported to any law enforcement officer agency subdivision be is there to report on the number of civil sexual assault or stocking orders that are granted so this is separate and separate from what we have in the criminal realm is that there is a provision in title 12 that allows someone to receive a civil protection order in cases of sexual violence and and stalking. And C is the number of sexual violence cases referred by law enforcement to a prosecutor so in a you have the number of reports made to law enforcement and see you have been how many of those reported cases then are referred from law enforcement to a prosecutor for to for determining whether or not there should be charges in subdivision D is the number of cases that are charged the nature of the charge in the disposition of those charges. And then you'll see in subdivision to the data has to be organized and reported county by county. D is directing the Department of Public Safety to make a reasonable effort to protect a victim confidentiality and when they're sharing that statistical information and it might be identifying that's put in there because you know we are in small communities here in Vermont and so that they're to consider the confidentiality when you have might have small numbers and how that might interact in terms of unintentionally identifying a victim. Subsection C DPS is to post the data that's collected on their website in a manner that's clear understandable and accessible to the public. The section five is the intercollegiate sexual violence prevention Council. There was a predecessor to this Council that was established by the General Assembly and one of its recommendations was that the Council, or some version similar to that Council continue and with more stakeholders and that they focus in on certain areas. Let me through the language starting at the top of page six. So creating the Council for the purpose of a coordinated response to campus sexual harm, including across institutions of higher learning in Vermont. As you can see the membership is in subsection B. So what you have in subdivisions one, two and three is that for each of so for the state colleges for the University of Vermont, and for the Association of independent colleges, they are to each appoint a title nine coordinator and a campus based prevention education coordinator to this to this Council. Subdivision for there's to be two community based sexual violence advocates appointed by the network. Subdivision five is there's two law enforcement or public safety representatives who have experience and responding to an investigating campus sexual violence and those are to be appointed by the Commissioner of Public Safety. Top of page seven and subdivision six, the Center for Crime Victim Services is to appoint two college students, at least one of whom has lived experience as a sexual violence survivor and one who represents a campus based racial justice organization. Subdivision seven is a person with expertise and sexual violence responses within the LGBTQ community appointed by the Center for Crime Victim Services. Subdivision eight is a sexual assault nurse examiner appointed by the network. Sexual assault nurse examiners are healthcare practitioners who are specifically trained to collect evidence when there has been a report of a sexual assault. Subdivision nine is a prosecutor with experience in prosecuting sexual violence cases and it could be either someone who is within one of the state's attorney's offices or it could be from the AG's office and the AG is the appointing and then subdivision 10 is an attorney with experience in sexual violence cases appointed by the Defender General. So subsection C is the duties for the council. So they're supposed to do interdisciplinary planning and information to share prevention programs on every college campus in Vermont, they're to do annual review of trends. Subdivision eight is the scope of page eight development and distribution of best practices. Subsection D, they are to have the administrative and technical assistance of the network. I'll just say there wasn't any clear entity to staff staff this necessarily and so the network offered to do this and that's where the appropriation comes in a little later. Subsection E is a report on or before December in 2022 and then annually thereafter they're to report to the General Assembly with a summary of their activities and any recommendations for legislative action. So the first meeting is to occur on or before September 15 of this year. You'll see that on subdivision for the counselor council is to meet quarterly so four times a year are limited there. And subdivision five your standard language around per diems and expenses. I think if you look at the makeup of the committee it's primarily probably going to be, you know, maybe just the folks under subdivision six and eight so the two college students and perhaps maybe the so sexual assault nurse examiner who might be availing themselves of the per diems and the expenses I think generally. The other folks are probably going to be compensated for whatever organization they're representing but that's just a guess. So, moving on to page nine and section seven with the appropriations. So, there is $13,000 appropriated to the network for purposes of staffing the intercollegiate sexual violence Prevention Council and reimbursement of the per diems and expenses. And then subsection B is kind of a standalone there's no statutory language in or session law earlier in the bill related to this but there's a $40,000 appropriation to the Center for Crime Victim Services to expand the forensic nursing program beyond hospitals so now that program just operates in hospitals but as you know, you know there's not a hospital in every corner of the state and sometimes it's quite a bit of a drive to get to a hospital and so they're looking to be able to extend those services to primary care and reproductive healthcare settings in underserved areas. Thank you. And representative, representative Colburn, do you wish to add to that thank you for that one. Yeah, I'll add just a little bit Michelle covered a lot and I received by email some questions from representative squirrel this morning and we've tried to make sure that we're addressing these but please, please let me know if I haven't addressed those to your question representative squirrel or anyone else and I'm also happy to send you some responses in writing if that feels useful after after hearing. I see that representative squirrel. Thank you. Yeah, thank you for the presentation. I had one question that I didn't hear an answer to and question why you chose the, the date of July 2028. So I'm set to counsel. Yeah, I was going to share just a little additional information about some of the appropriations and some of the sections who went and I walked through that and I will address that question. And, but thanks for, thanks for flagging that one. Appreciate it. I heard about sections one through three and you know I think we're happy to do our best to answer questions about those but as Michelle noted they really relate to modernizing our sexual assault laws and the definition of consent. In section four on the data collection and reporting. This is really aimed at getting us a better understanding of how these cases are coming forward and sort of when they're able to be fully charged and, and, and all of that and the, the language that you see in front of you really was developed with stakeholders from the Department of Public Safety and from the crime research group who will be doing a lot of the back end support for this reporting so there's plenty of capacity here they all they all. We heard actually multiple witnesses from DPS testified in support of the bill and sort of in support of these provisions so we're really confident that the reporting requirements here are achievable. Section five the inner collegiate sexual violence Council I can. Yeah, excuse me, rep Colburn just why why don't we pause section by section of their questions here I certainly had a question in section four about the capacity of the different entities to gather and collect the data. I understand and thank you for being clear that DPS said that they supported the bill, or do they have the financial capacity and the staffing capacity to do the work that you have asked them to do in the bill. Yes, and the, and I think a lot of the work will actually be done at preliminary work will actually be done through the by the crime research group with their existing funding and then the data and reporting will be handed over to DPS to help finalize and present. Okay, they have some support that's not articulated in the bill but that really is a critical piece of like infrastructure and capacity for them. Yeah, I absolutely appreciate that and know that we need access to data, it's just that we frequently hear, hey, legislature you asked us to do this work but you did not provide us with the resources to do the work. And so your testimony is that the entities that are being asked to do this work have sufficient resources and you inquired and they are not going to come to us and say we need more money to do this. I'm understanding, and I'm happy to get you some sort of like written confirmation of that if that would be helpful. Of course not. But if that's the testimony that you all have received a, you know, we're appropriation so it's our job to ask these questions and we get a little bit grumpy. When years later we hear about the costs that we added and what were we thinking of so yeah. Thank you, made a representative Townsend. Thank you thank you on this very point I just wanted to make sure everyone was aware, you know there's mentioned in the bill of the national incident based reporting system as a source for data. Within the criminal justice service division of DPS. There is a subdivision within criminal justice services called the Vermont crime information center, and they already do work in support of the national incident based reporting system so there's already a linkage in place. Great. Thank you. Rick Colburn you were moving us to section five I don't see other questions on for. Great. So section five again is the intercollegiate sexual violence Council. I can talk about the need for this. I will note that if you have really deep and I can certainly talk about individual membership. If you have really detailed questions about individual members you may also want to hear from the government operations committee as they actually really worked on and finalize the language for this section. As child noted last biennium we formed and funded a campus sexual harm task force with a very finite charge to evaluate and bring forward legislative proposals and I served on this task force so I'm happy to answer questions about its work. The key finding of this group that that really kind of wove through all of our other proposals was a need for more infrastructure in the form of a statewide group or entity that could facilitate the pooling of resources deeper collaboration between institutions and connected individuals, community and criminal justice system partners and development of shared best practices and more consistency across the state. One of the things that came up again and again it was just the huge variations and how institutions are able to resist source this work in campus setting so the difference between a UVM or a Middlebury and a state college or a really small different kinds of funding just came up again and again and I think here with with relatively minimal state investment we can hopefully create a structure where we can really better leverage resources across all the institutions and support of collective work. Another thing that came up was the clear need for some staffing and infrastructure support. So there did actually exist a few years back a really loose intercollegiate council, but it was really a volunteer effort and had to be coordinated by overworked design coordinators and just was not positioned to embrace the scope of work identified as needed. And I believe that group is actually no longer meeting because it was just sort of not sustainable in its current form. The representatives of state agencies and institutions of higher education were on the task force and as Ms. Childs noted no entity offered their capacity to staff or coordinate this proposed council. So that's where the work stepped in. The estimated appropriation that you'll see in a subsequent section is really the minimum minimum minimal costs required to provide some staffing pay for space rental and supplies such as paper copying etc. So I just and this is really my observation not the networks that supporting sexual assault survivors and preventing sexual violence is really really specialized work. And I think and that the Vermont network is the entity statewide that is best positioned to coordinate this that already has the most experience working across campuses the criminal justice system community supports. I think they're a pretty natural fit for serving in this role. The previous task force that was established was very short term I think we funded, maybe six meetings. This is really anticipated as a longer term entity that's positioned to make collective system changes over time, as needed. And sadly, the issue of campus sexual harm is probably not going away in the course of a handful of meetings. You'll know that it does have a sense that are repeal in section six and to representative squirrels question. This is, of course, so we can assess whether or not it could should continue. My understanding is that the length of time applied here is the standard term applied to longer term bodies by government operation so that General Assembly can routinely evaluate them. And as noted the proteams likely will only be used by the student representatives, perhaps by, perhaps by the, the nurses, but largely by the student reps, we think section seven brings us. Oh, I should pause and see if there are questions about sections five and six. I apologize. Thank you there are representative Jess up. Yeah, thank you. Good to see you both again. So what I'm just trying to understand in terms of the timeline is the Council would you say that the Council's charge. I mean it's obviously multiple different, but would you characterize the overall sort of capacity building because I've actually attended some of those previous meetings by the volunteer groups and I hear what you're saying it is totally as you describe overwork title nine coordinators, really hard to pull together people can't get away from their jobs all the stuff that we all know right, especially for institutions where people are wearing multiple hats already. So, so the Council, I mean you have the data function and you're tying that into the crime victim to the existing. So, is it capacity building that you're after largely is that it to narrow of a description. I think it's a few things so I do think it's capacity building. And it's, it's being able to leverage across institutions like what are we learning at a UVM or a middle barrier and able to put into practice and how can we support other institutions and kind of operationalizing that like how can we find some shared strategies and share resources. I think there's also a really strong interest in some developing some best practices and some consistency across campuses so for example like we have statutory definition of consent but each education of each higher institution institution and state has its own definition of consent operating so you go from one institution to another you might find you might find really different numbers definitions, sort of guiding, guiding the campus experience or an understanding around consent. One of the things, an example that came up that are the task force was really really interested in is thinking about piloting some models of restorative justice so really looking at alternatives to the kind of campus adjudication process which frankly, which frankly doesn't work for a lot of folks, and there have been some really promising developments around the country and colleges that are using restorative justice models, but you got to do it right, that can, that can be not a great alternative for someone to just kind of put together on a shoestring and try themselves so that was a great example of something where they really wanted to work together to develop best practices that could be shared between institutions that could be, that could be shared statewide that could create kind of consistent best practices in the state. And then there are also rows and I think you'll see this in the charge there were a lot of questions about as there just tends to be and a lot of our work in the justice system questions about getting better data getting a better statewide picture of what's happening. That's that's less like institution institution and and more allowing us to kind of look at some aggregate data and really understand trends and what's happening so I think those those were hopefully you see those reflected in the language in the bill but those are some of the reasons. The reason I'm partly framing it like that is I'm thinking of representative squirrels question about what sunset when and typically if you're doing capacity building the idea is you go in, you do a lot of work you set things up you get the consistency to know that resource allocation is really behind inconsistency right so that's that whole issue. Right, and then there's a stepping back and that kind of gets to his question about the repeal. So that's what I'm trying to understand like, is, are you seeking to set up something sort of longer term, or you seeking to do that capacity building and then step back and I think frankly, I don't you know I don't want to speak for the bills sponsor but I think it is about setting up something longer term and having the kind of just standard check in that we would have for any entity so that that repeal is my understanding is that's really standard for government operations to not just say and it's going going to go on and on and on forever. I don't think it's necessarily planned as like, and absolutely by 2028 the work of this entity will be done I think it's meant to provide an opportunity for the General Assembly to really evaluate the function and usefulness of this entity at that point. And may I madam chair was just one more follow up. So, would, given that you have the out near as the repeal and sunset with this being ongoing appropriation of some fashion until that sunset because how does one determine whether capacity is sufficient or not or how does that. How does that slope. How does that work in terms of dollars. Yep, I think it would be, you know, something that would we would need to keep assessing the staffing needs and if there continues to be a need for an ongoing appropriation or not. I think it's, I think it will be something that will need to come back to. Okay, thank you. Before we move on, could I just say one more thing I the network has tested did testify I believe that it could potentially be a one time appropriation. And, you know, I think you, you could potentially want to hear from them. Yeah. So this is, this is our shot. And so if they're alternative to be thinking about this, we'll need to take it out of the room and come back with a proposal for how to do this, because we do not have time for testimony. Yeah, sorry, the level in the room is at least in my room is. Yeah, I just want to make sure you're getting all the information you need so I can do any follow up to. Yeah, thank you. So, um, question I have on section five is you've got 13 people on this committee or this commission. I'm sorry, I'm not using the right words on the council. That's a large number. Did you have a conversation about making it smaller. Um, we didn't have a conversation about making a smaller I think we were really working to get the right people in the room. We did defer to the government operations committee for the detailed conversation on that and they had coordinated with the House Education committee about which of them would really dig in and take that on but I will say my experience. And then I see that Michelle has her hand up to my experience on the smaller test force which was similarly sized and sort of similar mix of community criminal justice system and campus folks and impacted folks. I feel like the important and right mix of people to have at the table these are really complex intersecting systems at the way they intersect often has really serious impacts and often detrimental impacts on survivors and so the work of supporting survivors and making the experience on our college campuses more survivor friendly, I think really requires all of these players to be in conversation together in ways that they have not historically always been. Thank you. Miss trials. I just wanted to mention that. So I went to house government operations and worked with them on their recommendations to judiciary, there were actually more people on the council as the bill as introduced and originally kind of contemplated by House judiciary and government operations paired it down, specifically to the representatives from the institutions of higher learning so the bill is introduced had a title nine coordinator from every college in Vermont. And so they kind of whittled that number down but they, they actually added the defender generals representative on there. And the, the, I'm sorry, if I represent pulmonary mentioned this one of the recommendations from the earlier group that was working on this was a wider array of stakeholders. And so that's why you see a number of folks representing different constituencies. Okay, thank you that's very helpful to know. And if there's no more questions on five or six, we are now at the appropriation section 13, which is section seven, which appropriates $13,000. Can you tell us why, why that number. The number came from, you know, the network that. So it's their estimate of what they would need to cover just really the minimum needs for staffing for potential space rental and for supplies. And the per diem that is part of this and the per diems are folded into there as well and as we noted yes as we noted we're anticipating really minimal use of the per diems. Okay. Thank you. I'm just, I'm thinking a wee bit about that and I think we may want to pull out what the per diem is, and have that as a separate amount and be clear about that, and then appropriate if. And then I think we need to have a conversation about the other part of the appropriation. And then I have a question that I had had there. I just this morning was reminding the committee that we do not do direct appropriations normally to private entities, I was batted down by one of my colleagues who reminded me that we're not always consistent. And I'm going to get even with him. I am uncomfortable making an explicit appropriation to an entity that is not state government or not that we don't offer this out as a that we don't bid it out. We do not normally sole source this sort of work. So I can, can you tell me why I am wrong. Well, I think so I having worked on this issue. There is not a single state entity that comes to mind to me state agency. That state government entity that comes to mind to me that has the breadth of experience and skills at pulling all of these intersecting systems and players together that the network does. I think you could go through an RFP process and put it out to bid and I think the likely result of that process if the network chose to bid on it is that they would very possibly emerge very, very likely emerge as the clear, terrorist choice. And so I think we're, I, I'm really kind of speaking for myself here but I think like there's efficiency in just naming that and, and moving forward. Okay, thank you. I would imagine that the Department of Public Health would be the logical place to have an interest in this I, I clearly understand what is trying to be created here I understand. And it is a highly specialized area that in on a personal level I would say deserves the attention you're trying to bring to it. I just think that this is but it is broadly a public health issue. And that was where I was imagining this resides that is also a way of saying hey Department of Public Health, this is a public health issue that deserves attention. So we may want to have a conversation about that. The second is the second part of this appropriation is related but not tied into the Council itself and so will you talk to us about that. So this is the additional appropriation of 40,000 to pilot new forms of access to the Vermont forensic nursing program. So these are really specialized exams that folks will have after being sexually assaulted and they, they really are part of the investigation to collect evidence as well as just assessing the health impacts on a survivor of assault. The program as it exists today is based in hospitals. It's funded through the Center for Crime Victim Services through federal funding. What the appropriation would do is expand the program to offer these exams in other settings. So currently you can only go to an emergency department as a hospital at a hospital and these funds would pilot the provision of care and primary care reproductive health settings. So that folks can be, these are like, can be very traumatic, very lengthy exams and the idea of being able to have it in a primary care setting or reproductive health care setting as opposed to having to go to a hospital emergency department to do it, you can imagine would be very supportive to some survivors, it also, you know, might reduce the barrier of transportation of having to get to a hospital so this is this is really an attempt to kind of pilot like what would it look like in some other settings to be able to provide these services and I'll say that that it really expanding and ensuring access to this program has been a really ongoing priority for the Judiciary Committee in my time there and and beyond. As noted, these are really specialized trauma informed exams, you know, could be very beneficial to folks in more rural parts of the state to have access to them in different settings and so it really fits with a long held overall goal of the committee that Rep. Jessup will be quite familiar with to ensure just access to justice to eliminate geographic injustice around the state in access to aspects of our justice system. So that's really the thinking behind behind this appropriation. Thank you. Rep Jessup. Yes, I of course want to fully appreciate you for putting that in that is a really important piece. And the just two questions I have was consideration given to support to do the staffing for that because that as we know was a key backup and the other component of the call was a really huge issue was the backlog of rape kits it was just this ongoing thing and I may be straying too far field but I feel like it's related to the money because those were the two pieces that often, even if you had everything else in it but this takes off the third which was the where but there was also the what happens next with the kids. And then did you have somebody available to do as you as you covered the exam in the right way with the right kids so that the evidence would stand up should that move further through the process. Yeah, so I think it's it's really the appropriation would be used primarily I think for staffing train for training folks for getting to really setting up the integration and of this service in some of those other kinds of settings that I described so it's, it's not about, although we continue to look at the existing underlying program if this is not about saying there's something wrong with the underlying program that's not working and it needs to be better funded. And we need to do it's not like filling a gap in the underlying program it's really trying to explore this is trying to explore and set up. What would it look like to provide this same service in different kinds of settings and perhaps allow us to go even further in the trauma informed nature of these exams. I'm not sure if I'm asking your totally answering your question representative just up but my understanding is it's the funding would be used really for training folks in the primary care settings and reproductive health care settings and sort of standing up some some models. And I'm sorry to be talking so much committee members just I do remember spending a lot of time on this it's really important work and I really appreciate all the thought that's gone into it. And, and one of the things we do it's just trying to think where the resources needed where they ongoing and where the holes. So when you say the $40,000 building capacity is it building capacity of health professionals plus. And that would sort of be the pilot like you would you would have a, I don't know rape crisis center on a campus and there's always volunteers who are there there's maybe a health professional I don't know what the configuration is but I just wouldn't. Yes, or it would train folks I thought I should have mentioned that that is another potential setting where folks are thinking about piloting provision of these exams is actually campus health centers. Rather than because currently what happens if you go to your campus health center and report a sexual assault you refer to the emergency room for this like the exam and can imagine that the stress and intensity of that. And the emotional step is a lot for, for some survivors for most drivers I would hypothesize. So, right it's looking at like can we get some models of this in places like campus health centers and reproductive health centers and in in your own doctor's office, potentially. So, is the expectation that this 40. What is the expectation around this $40 $1000 appropriation on an ongoing basis. Um, my so my understanding is that this is really to fund a pilot. And then to, and then further need would be assessed to be able to trial it in some locations. And how many locations would become just give us some can you give us some details about what that would look like. What is the 40,000 bias. I don't know the number of locations. I, I, I can tell you the kinds of said I've shared the kinds of settings I think the, the funding would largely be used as I said for training for training. Because yeah, so I'm not, I'm, I could certainly get a more one and I try to get a more concrete answer to that question to you by email but okay thank you. Did you ask the Center for Crime Victim Services, which, as you noted and thank you for that, the note about the work that they have already done in this area did you ask them if they would fund this program. I would ask them that so the way the funding for this program works it's funneled through the Crime Victim Service Center it's federal funding dollars so it's very finite and it's very directed how it can be used. The network does work with them to help administer the program and do the actual training the trauma informed training of folks. So that would be a collaboration between those two use to actually implement the Center for Crime Victim Services, yes it is. There are parameters to how they can spend their money, I suspect this is fits in with those parameters. Yet, yes it is fine and I know it's declining but they would have the ability to fund the sort of thing if they chose, and I, they do a broad array of important work, but I believe this fits in with the sort of work they do. Robin. Thank you and thanks for bringing this bill to us, representative Colburn and I think it's great that I have more questions on this 40,000. Also, I think I heard you say it you're kind of viewing it as a pilot. I'm still a little unclear on what we're getting for the $40,000 and if it's a pilot. How will we know if we're successful. We're going to measure this by and that would give ammunition for being able to, you know, ask for additional funds or get a bigger program set up because it seems to me that 40,000 is a nice start but doesn't get us that far. Yeah, so we didn't hear testimony about like a formal assessment rubric. There's, you know, a very good case to be made and we did hear that for why, why this expansion into these other settings is. Yes, the common sense right behind behind it. And I, I, you know, we are committee is in continual conversation with the crime victim services center and and the network on the services and related programs and so I think we would anticipate very much that we would be hearing back from them about how it could be lessons learned continuing need. All of that. Is that where were they the ones who recommended the 40,000 still a little unclear on where that number got picked from. I think the, the recommendation came. From the bill sponsor representative Copeland Hansis who were the number of stakeholders in crafting in crafting the bill and certainly was advocated for by the network as well with and with support of crime victim services center. Thanks. Representative Colburn, do you can, could you help us understand the scope of the problem that is being addressed here and by that I mean do you have it, can you tell us how many big, what do we believe the number of victims of sexual assault is in the state of Vermont and just trying to. And I know that we do not in fact know what the actual number is but in terms of reported numbers and what what the thought is around the total possibilities. So I didn't come with statistics about the number of reported sexual assaults for you but we know from statistics that I think it's between one and five and one and four college students will be sexually assaulted. We know that those risks increase for women for LGBTQ plus folks for for people of color. And we know that there's a huge amount of that just goes under reported and I can tell you zero representative in the legislature and also at the municipal level of what I think is probably the most college student dense district in the state that this is a huge huge issue for my constituents they continually feel let down by the process and the experience they have in college settings. When they have experienced assault or other forms of sexual harm and it's just and the stories I've heard I mean I've heard so many stories in my role representing these settings and I have I have never heard someone say like I really worked for me I really felt like I received justice I felt like I received healing. I felt like my education wasn't interrupted by this or compromised by this experience I I hear the opposite of that like every single time I talked to someone who has been through this experience and there is a huge need. To address this issue in the in these settings and beyond. And that's really what we're trying to do here with this bill. Thank you. I'm, I'm just trying to do. I'm not speculating in my mind but I'm guessing there is upwards of 20,000 students in the state of Vermont in different colleges around the state at a minimum. Peter how many how many students are there in the state college system. Somewhere in the vicinity of 10,000 but remember a lot of some are are are someone returning for one course things like that so I can't tell you the full time to part time. Yeah, yeah so clearly upwards of 20,000 individuals associated who are students in one way or another and higher education around the state and one out of four one out of five. Is the thought in terms of the violence that may be perpetuated upon them. Okay. I committee I so thank you representative Colburn and miss child for your presentation very interesting important work. I think we have a few questions about the appropriation section of this committee. Do you do do are there issues with the appropriation section do we need to modify this in any way. I raised the question about separating out the per diems from the appropriation that would be provided to support this and I'm also questioning making the direct appropriation to the network I totally understand the efficiency, I just worried about the slippery slope in terms of of this and so committee what are your druthers or do you want to go away and think about it committee and come back to me with a recommendation for what we should do here. I'm also aware that it is five of 12 we are over our time and you guys have been going for a long time. What do you want to do committee. I know I'll keep you sitting here until we're done. Let's let's talk about it when we come back. Peter and then Trevor. Yeah. Thank you madam chair so I know I agree with your your thoughts about separating out the, the, the $13,000 appropriation I think that we always reflect the appropriation for boards councils etc. Separately, and I think it's a good thing to do that. And then the balance it would just be a matter of, of, you know, how do we, how do we send that to an appropriate entity to actually conduct the to hold as a place to hold it and provide the support for it. So that's, that's to be determined that yeah I do agree we need to break that out. Okay, and just thank you. And, incidentally, I am not asking the same question about the Center for Crime Victims services, because in fact we do have a statutory relationship with them. And that's the reason I it, you know, we appropriate their money so why not this is just an additional appropriation there, actually maybe part of the solution. Trevor. Yeah, that was it. That was exactly my thought that maybe we could do some language changes here and direct these resources money resources to the center with the idea that we're probably directing to the Vermont network anyway but it kind of meets some of your concerns and some of my concerns also around this I think we have a couple more questions that I think representative Colburn was going to bring back to us and answers to also. So I like to do, you know, have another conversation about this of course. Okay, so do a little bit of work, but I think we just found a solution, which is that. So we need to separate. We have a plan. So let's, let's call it noon. We're not going to make a decision we'll have a conversation about how to proceed we're going to. Yeah. So we're in good shape. Thank you very much rep Colburn and this child's for your time with us this afternoon and committee for your work on this. Let us go off live.