 Good afternoon, and I'm very pleased to welcome you to this lunchtime webinar, whether you're watching us on Zoom or on YouTube Live. This is the second presentation of a new lecture series brought to you by the Environmental Protection Agency, the EPA, and the IIEA entitled Environmental Resilience. Throughout the course of this series, international experts will address topics such as the circular economy, air quality, environmental governance, the bioeconomy, sustainable waste management, water quality, and climate change. And on behalf of the IIEA, I would like to warmly thank the EPA for their sponsorship of this series and of course also their collaboration with us in presenting it to you. We're delighted to be joined today by Monsieur Louis Fouchin, President of the World Water Council, and I'd like to thank him for his generosity in making the time to speak to us this afternoon. Louis Fouchin has served as President of the World Water Council since 2018. He has more than 25 years of experience in the field of international advocacy for global water security and access to clean water. From 1991 to 2019, Monsieur Fouchin was CEO of the Water Supply Company of Marseille, leading a group of some 15 companies in that city. He also has extensive experience in the public sector where he worked as a civil servant and subsequently served as Mayor of the French town Prét from 1989 to 1997. He's a member of the UN High Level Panel on Water Related Disasters and he founded, himself founded the Disaster Relief NGO Trans Sahara, as well as WaterHelp, which is an official humanitarian response program. In 2003, he was awarded the rank of Chevalier of the French Legion of Honor. So the title of the address this afternoon is The Future of Water, Opportunity and Risk. Louis will speak to us for roughly 20 minutes, after which we will go to the Q&A session with you, our audience. You can join that discussion and ask your question by using the Q&A function on Zoom, which you should be able to see on your screen. Feel free to send your questions in throughout the session as they occur to you and in fact I would strongly encourage you to put together your question when it does occur, rather than waiting until the Q&A session is about to start or even doing so during the session. You're free to do that as well of course, but it's good if you can get those questions into us as soon as possible so that we're well organized and we can run the Q&A session smoothly. And I would respectfully ask that in line with our convention here that you would ask, that you would identify yourself and your affiliation, organizational affiliation if you have one when you are asking the question. So just a reminder that both the presentation today and the Q&A session are on the record. So feel free also to join in the discussion using Twitter if you'd like to do that and you can use hashtag EPA underscore IIEA if you'd like to participate in that way, that's hashtag EPA underscore IIEA. So before we turn to our speaker, it's my great pleasure to hand over for her remarks to Laura Burke who as you know is the Director General of the Environmental Protection Agency and Laura will address you briefly before introducing our guest speaker. Thank you very much Laura. Thank you very much, Alex, and delighted to be here today and delighted to be as well as working with the IIEA on this lecture series. Really are delighted to have such a partnership and to have such engagement and the opportunity to have these types of speakers as Louis coming to address us all. As Alex has said, this is the second lecture series in the lecture in the series, and it's great to see over 600 people signing up to hear more about the World Water Council and an area such as international hydro diplomacy, water strategies and the part they played addressing environmental climate and of course social transformations, and also around water security so I think it's going to be a really interesting lecture. But before we get into Loick's presentation just a little bit about water in Ireland. And I'm sure all of you are aware that water is hugely a hugely important national resource provides multitude of benefits to the people of Ireland. Clean, healthy water is essential to our economy. I suppose we're all conscious of areas such as agriculture and tourism. There's also things like the manufacturer of pharmaceuticals, the manufacturer of computer chips all rely on a good supply of clean water. Of course our rivers, lakes, estuaries and coastal waters are home to thousands of plants and animal species from tiny insects to birds to mammals, you know everything from kingfishers are the waters are home to them. So water is essential to our health and well being providing raw water for drinking, but also the location for recreational activities swimming angling, or a walk in the beautiful blue spaces the rivers the beaches that we have across Ireland. So now it's more important than ever and I think we recognize more than ever the link between health and the environment, and we are appreciating probably our, our local environment more than ever before. So maintaining our waters in a healthy condition is critical if we're to maintain a vibrant and healthy society and an aquatic environment that will support a rich diversity of species and habitats. However, and there is a however here recent EPA assessments have shown that Ireland's water quality needs to be better protected. Just over half of Irish surface waters are in satisfactory condition, which means that half aren't nutrient concentrations and waters are too high and the trends are going in the wrong direction. And in addition, what we've seen is a significant decline in our high status river bodies in recent years. The main activities affecting water quality are agriculture, physical alterations to water bodies and discharges from wastewater treatment plants. So protecting and improving water quality will require urgent and effective actions across all sectors, but measures to improve water quality can also bring win wins or multiple benefits in areas such as climate diversity and health. So there are huge opportunities in addressing water quality issues. The challenges then of managing and protecting our water resources is often complicated by climate change, with the impacts of climate change often apparent through water, too much place during floods, too little during periods of drought. And Ireland, of course, has experienced several extreme weather events in recent years, including flooding and droughts. And by my country, they're predicted to be increases in extreme weather events. The impact of the drought in 2018, which I'm sure we all remember, but the it impacted on river flows and lake water levels and was severe and highlighted the vulnerability of certain water supplies in Ireland. That vulnerability may be magnified by the impacts of climate change. And ultimately, it highlights the need for robust water supply and water resource management to ensure a safe and secure water supply into the future. So what this leads me then is that I'm really interested in hearing Loach's thoughts on his experiences and experiences in other countries. And all of this can help us in our thinking in protecting our waters as a key strategic asset for the country. So with that, I'm going to sit back and relax and listen to hear all of Loach's views and thoughts. And can I hand over to you now Loach. Thank you very much. Thank you. Good. Good afternoon, everybody. As you know, my name is Louis Fourchon and the president of the World Water Council very delighted and honored to be with you this afternoon. I would like to take just two minutes to present to you the World Water Council. And which is an international multi-stakeholder organization created 25 years ago in 1996. And the primary mission of the World Water Council is to make water the driving force of policymaking because and I will insist because water is politics. And as I just say, delivering response through all levels of governance is central to our work. And the World Water Council focuses as a scope of its activities around three actions. First by mobilizing political action and second by tackling emerging challenges and the third by co-organizing the World Water Forum. As you can see on the map, the Council is the founder and co-organizer of the World Water Forum. You can see where the forum has previously, this one, yes, has previously been organized. For example, the AIDS World Water Forum was in Brazil, in Brasilia in 2018. It recorded more than 100,000 participants and 10,000 delegates during the official sessions. 172 countries were represented, 12 head of states, 56 ministers and more than 300 parliamentarians and mayors. The next one, the next one will take place in Dakar, Senegal, in March 2022 in one year. And with our Senegalese colleagues, Senegalese friends, we have decided to make this forum the forum of responses in order to be strongly concrete to present solutions which could be worldwide implemented. It will be the first forum held in sub-Saharan Africa. Main theme is water security for peace and development and we will have four priorities, water security, cooperation, rural development and innovation, governance and financing. This is a very, very short presentation of our Council and of its 400 organization coming from 70 countries. So dear colleagues, dear friends, first allow me to call you dear friends of water as you do us the honor of participating in this conference on water. Let me, excuse me, I have just a problem with my paper. So why are we talking about the future of water? And probably because we are worried about this future and why are we worried? Probably because we consider, we feel, even if some of you are not water experts, we feel confused that water is in danger. And if water is in danger, then man and nature are also in danger. Why is this? Today's world is experiencing crisis after crisis and these crisis are creating very strong tension all around our planet. There are so many political crisis, military tensions, nuclear violence and diplomatic tensions, but we are also experiencing food and health crisis. As well as great demographic tension within the framework of climate transition. And these crisis are causing environmental degradation and economic difficulties. Here is the full picture. And of course, energy and water have become scarce resource, both in quantity and in quality, in only a few decades, causing great concern and tensions. These tensions may be internal to the country, as you know, in California, or they may concern an entire trans-binary river basin, such as the Tigris and the Frats or the Mekong River. Why are these such difficulties in securing the future of water on our planet? Because today's demography is sowing, billions of people, children, women, men, depend on water resources for their lives and any suffering inflicted on water as well as on nature is suffering for humanity. And the role of our World Water Council is to make water thinking progress, first by detecting the current and future risks, and then by explaining the present opportunities and tomorrow challenges for the generations to come. We are constantly working with our 400 member organizations on the bare priority and solutions, and I would like to send them for their efficient contributions. To live in a fairer world which is sustainable in the long term, we need two elements. First, give access to development opportunities, and second, protect nature. To do that, we need to act with mutual respect and find a sustainable balance between the use of our coveted natural resources and a duty to protect them. And water, along with air, is the first resource to be secured. Our lives depend on the availability of water, both in terms of quantity and quality. And if we fail to manage its availability, we condemn entire populations to being excluded from sustainable development and equitable enjoyment of fundamental human rights. Today, and also tomorrow, we must ensure water security worldwide, but also at a local scale, water security for us all and by us all. Very concretely, water security needs to combine technological solutions and political will. We can translate this as a strengthening of the three pillars on which the universal water house is built. These three pillars are knowledge, finance, and governance. First, knowledge, which means sharing innovation. Water security must benefit from technical and digital developments. Today, for example, this alienation of sea water using reverse or smoothing is implemented in more than 70 countries around the world at an acceptable cost. The reuse of wastewater is also a major step forward, which will gradually become widespread. In Singapore, for example, for more than 10 years, river water has been mixed with water from wastewater treatment plants, and it works. In Tunisia and Morocco, golf courses, gardens, parks, and soon farming fields are using wastewater influence. In Europe, there are still regulatory obstacles. But in cases of water deficit, this solution will be considered good for agriculture as it is now in industry. In the same way, digitization is gradually enabling farmers and citizens to monitor their consumption on a daily basis and to detect any leaks in their private networks. The second pillar is finance, which enables development. The situation can be summed up as water is short of money, but money is short of water. And the main issue is about the generalization of subsovereignty, allowing a city in a developing country, for example, to borrow without a state warranty, while at the same time proving its ability to repay. Another difficulty lies in the weak capacity of some of the poorest countries and communities to establish projects that meet the bureaucratic requirements of funders. In northern countries, in Italy as in Ireland, the issue of balancing water and sanitation budgets is addressed through pricing. Free water has become very rare and has given way to social pricing. In France, we say that water pays for water, which means that the income from users and from subsidies must pay for all the expenses of the service, both for investment and maintenance. Water consumption can be paid directly through metering or through a water subscription based fee or based on the household, which I understand will be the case in Ireland. This brings us to the third pillar, which is that of governance, which must guarantee equitable sharing and total transparency. The difference of water, the time of water centralism is over. Water governance must be effectively shared between the state, which guarantees the resource and controls its proper use. Then comes the role of river basins, which organize a sharing of resources and between users, guaranteeing qualities through public policies. Countries such as Mexico, Senegal, Brazil and many others have made a huge progress in water security thanks to basin management. And finally, there's a level of local authorities and citizens who ensure treatment and distribution as well as cost recovery. You can see step by step these three level governments is proving its value, provided that the citizen is involved. Actors in the use of water, agriculture, industry and domestic consumers will fight against all forms of waste. Consumers who have also citizens and voters are aware of their rest and stability. A new element has emerged in public debate, debate over the last 20 years, namely the need for water for nature and not just for mankind. Today, we understand that we also need water for nature. Why? Because nature is the best way to protect water. Nature preserves water. Nature filters water. Nature maintains the quality and quantity of water. So we must understand the need to share between human beings, but also between human beings and nature. There's also a specific question upon which I insist, which is a sensitive question. Water reserves or water storage systems. Today on every continent, I mean nearly every country, there are places where humans and nature lack water at some point in time. Scarcity today, as we just said, is a problem in Africa, but also in the US, in India, in Australia and even in France. We don't always have water from winter, which can be used during the summertime, or from one year to the next one. We must rethink the concept of dams and reservoirs. Ecologists criticize dams, which are too powerful, too violent, move populations and assault nature. They are right. But we need dams, otherwise men are thirsty in nature as well. We think, and I have been advocating for this for several years, that there is a need to evolve from the concept of dams to the concept of aquatic biodiversity reserves, which are above all a means to protect biodiversity. This concept is new, and it is still being criticized. But we have an example of this, not far from Marseille, a water reservoir, which is also an aquatic biodiversity reserve that protects the fauna and flora, but also in the same time provides fresh water to the inhabitants of Marseille. It's a sort of continuation of the concept of water for humans, water for nature. Humans are mostly concentrated within cities and nature in rural areas. We must stop opposing cities to the countryside. Human dwellers versus rural dwellers. For years when it comes to innovation, we have only talked about smart cities, but never about smart rural areas. Ladies and gentlemen, who guarantees water protection? Who guarantees water production? Who protects forests and the countryside? Not city dwellers, but people from rural areas. Who produces food? The farmers, not people from the cities. Therefore, we must voluntarily, but progressively shift towards adopting farming methods that are acceptable to humankind, but at the same time, we must make sure that humankind is not deprived of the water and food we need in order to survive. More generally, we want everyone in the world to have access to basic services, which are water, electricity, food, health, and education at the very least. We cannot continue to separate these basic services from one another. Until now, we have had integrated water resources management, IWRA, which is a vertical approach. Water for water, only water. For years, our council has advocated for a horizontal approach also. Heading to the vertical one, the Five Fingers Alliance. Why? Because we must consider solutions for water, at the same time as we consider solutions for electricity. And what is the use of feeding people? Is they die because of health issues? All of this is the same thing. Water for human development, water for humanity, so that not only we solve water problems, but also address basic services. This is why we must give more responsibilities and power to mayors, local communities, local rural citizens, because local authority handles some things better than the central government. We need this shared approach in the poorest countries. You can't open a school if there is no electricity, no water, no medical center, or if you don't feed the children. We need this horizontal and fundamental approach, adding the vertical one. And in the coming years, we'll probably see it become mainstream in water thinking. Just a few words concerning Transbandary Basins, which are today the heart of a new geopolitical order. 40 to 50% of the world's population live across 250 Transbandary River basins flowing across several countries. A successful example of basing governments exist, such as the Senegal River, the Rhine River, and the Parana River in South America, established through treaties and operated, dedicated organizations were dialogue and sharing other rules. There are other more complex examples where tensions continue due to strong political sensitives and permanent media pressure. This is a case of the Nile River, where the construction of the Renaissance dam in Ethiopia has triggered a major conflict with downstream states such as Sudan and especially Egypt. But there are no reasons today, ladies and gentlemen, of speaking about what it was. The dialogue, the full dialogue, and nothing else dialogue is the only recommendation issued by our council to deal with this type of situation. And finally, I would like to end this overview of the future of water with an essential subject, a sensitive subject, an ethical subject, but also an economic and social and therefore political subject. This subject is that of the right to water. I mean right to water and sanitation. The right to water so easily proclaimed, but so difficult to enforce and concretely implement. The right to water is first and foremost, the possibility for those who are deprived of it to have access to water in quality, in quantity, at a price acceptable to hold. It's a right in sufficiently guaranteed by the UN system, which has never been able to impose this obligation on states. Do you know that only about 50 states have really included the right to water in their constitutions or founding texts. An international campaign must once again be led by our World Water Council to convince the heads of states and parliamentarians to join us. The other dimension of the right to water is local. This is the ability to prohibit water cuts for the poorest, and to set up minimum water and electricity allowances for very poor families to ensure respect and dignity for all. There's no, there's no technical difficulty in it, but here again, it's a decision that must be taken by the political authority. Ladies and gentlemen, dear friends of water, this is all through the risks to water. We can take opportunities to put an end to water suffering. Our role at the Council is first to gather all of those who think about the future of water, to see desire thoughts, and to continue thinking. A European politician said to govern is to anticipate. We must look ahead. Our role, my role, is to guess all things will evolve. I've been talking for the past 20 years about water for men and water for nature. We were talking about hydro diplomacy in 1998. Today we insist on the role of parliamentarians and the dangers that lie in opposing rural and city inhabitants. Because we listen to our water community. We listen to our 400 members organization to understand all things are moving. We talk about all dams must evolve because we are aware that we must move beyond the idea of hard and vertical dams and communicate with the population. Together with a huge support of decisions maker, we try to make progress on the water thinking and at the same time be able to propose and share concrete responses. Water thinking evolves every day. 20 years ago, water thinking was done by an, for engineers only. It was a technical and scientific approach. Today, who participates in water thinking? Engineers, but also sociologists, demographers, politic decision makers, scientists, etc. Everyone is called upon to think about the future of water. And help us to consider the ideas and deliver the responses. Dear friends of water, if you should remember only one thing from this presentation, it could be water is a political issue to which every citizen has a duty to contribute. Thank you for your attention. Thank you very much. The week and I'll just give you an opportunity to, to gather your thoughts and to come down from the rostrum and be seated and thank you so much for that terrific excursion. Thank you so much for the opportunity to do the topic. And I think where you finished where you started and where you finished, I think your opening phrase or one of your opening phrases was water is politics. And you reinforced that point in your conclusion by saying, it's not so long ago that it was just a technical subject, you know, for scientists for engineers. It's humanity to debate and to deliberate on these questions and to have good public policy to begin to address the huge questions and indeed crisis that we have in different parts of the world. So we have a number of questions coming in, quite a few questions coming in. I'm in the happy position because I'm in the chair so I just have to read them and put them to you. I have plenty of questions of my own that I'd like to ask but I won't abuse my position and I'll give way to all of our guests all of our attendees here who have been so good to to offer their questions. And just to remind people again, we are on Twitter so you can tweet if you like, hashtag EPA underscore IEA with a huge attendance this afternoon which I'm delighted to report many hundreds of people watching in on this webinar through zoom and live on YouTube. The first question I'm going to put to you is an interesting one, a topical one in Ireland. What are your thoughts on the sustainability of large scale water diversion projects. There's been one proposed in Ireland to divert flows from the river Shannon in the west of Ireland to supply Dublin in the east. I want to ask you to address the specifics of the Irish question but just generally on the sustainability of large scale water diversion projects. Do you want to answer question by question or. Yeah, I think it's probably. It's probably easier. Yeah, it's probably easier. We might put some of them later on, but for the moment. I am more a specialist of Irish whiskeys and Irish water, but and concerning diversion all over the world all over the world. It's now a very important issue, sometimes sensitive. Due to the difficulties to operate this diversion concerning highland for us and for a lot of people. All over the world I was discussing with my bureau members. It's difficult to understand that you have difficulties concerning water because for us. In Ireland. There's a lot of rain, you have a very good mineral water and it's difficult to understand your difficulties, but now it's usual to see in a lot of countries. You have a lot of pollution through canals underground or in surface. Look at what I've done the Chinese a few years ago. Quite 7000 kilometers of canal in quite seven years. But you have other examples in I was mentioning Senegal. The pipe, it could be a canal, but it's very important for water security. If you are not able to guarantee security through pumping more and more through diversion through desalination through reuse water, you need to have the quantity. Which take in account the increasing of population and the increasing of consumption. Because we are not at the time, except in some countries. I was mentioned in Singapore, but it's a small countries. We are not ready to decrease our conception citizen by citizen. It begins, but it will take except in Israel, or they are very, very in advance concerning this question. But during the next years, we will decrease quite everywhere. You cannot explain to a school to achieve to children that in the US. They have in California. Just a few years ago they had 700 liters per day per person as conception. And in Ireland, I don't know, but in France is 200 liters per day, little bit less. And a Palestinian or a million one, they have 20 to 30 liters per day. Not only is the question of diversion, but the question of securing water to have enough water in quantity, quality is an other issue. To have enough water in quantity to save the increasing of population and the need of increasing the level of life of the population. Okay, thank you. I should have mentioned that question came from Owen Hurst of MKO Ireland, Owen is a planning and development consultant here. Another question I have from Sulagna Metra and thanks you for your insightful lecture. And is from the UCD Center for Humanitarian Action. Do you have some recommendations for generating political will for cooperation? Considering that water is a hugely emotive issue and mostly leads to maximalist claims from stakeholders so what recommendations do you have from your experience for generating political will for cooperation. How many times do I have to answer this question? You know, at the very beginning of the council, when I was, I'm not an engineer as you know, I'm coming for the political and economic side. And when I was saying to my colleagues, water is politics. They were looking at me as if I was crazy. It has changed now. It has changed. And water has became a really a political issue. But how can we do? There's a global lever. For the first time, SDGs are including water issues and access to water targets. That's fine. But it does not give any concrete response. I've been a mayor in my life. And at the ground, I was saying a few years ago, taps before guns. It means that the environmental budgets, the water budget have to be increased and also have to be decreased. Have you heard what I have said concerning the the five priorities, five fingers alliance. That's the priority for the future. That's not the army budgets. That's not the nuclear budget. That's a problem of choice. If you are thinking that water is politics, you need to have to give priorities in mostly two things, laws and budgets. That's the reason you need to have an efficient link between parliamentarians, basins organization and local authorities. Let's say more than every citizen has to say to the politicians, water, water, water. Okay, and in fact, Alan Walsh, we also had a question from Alan Walsh. Thank you Alan for your question, very similar to the one that we've just been addressing. Jennifer, Jennifer Lynch is a master's student in the University of Limerick. She asks a question, which I think will certainly occur to a lot of people in Ireland, because water has been a controversial issue in Ireland politically also for other reasons, for reasons to do with pricing and user charges. Jennifer Lynch says she I see that water has entered the stock market, and she's concerned that, you know, there's a danger that water would become fully privatized. So do you have thoughts on the balance between public sector and private sector in the water debate and the whole water question and you have worked in private sector and public sector. What's the balance. I mean, you mentioned earlier, the question of investment and investment is about risk. Should that risk be a state risk? Should it fully, should it, should the private sector be involved? What's the, I mean, it's a big question it's hard to answer in a couple of minutes but do you have a few sentences on what you think is the right balance between the state investment, the state responsibility, and then a private involvement. Good question and sensitive issue. You know, I've been 20 years as a public servant and 20 years in a private company. Water has not to be privatized. Never. Ever been privatized. You have two exceptions, which have been disastrous in England and the Margaret Satcher government and in China. privatization means to provide to privatize the property of networks, plans, etc. It has to stay public. Always concerning the management, the maintenance. It could be done by public or private. There's no bad public or good private. There's only good management. Which could be coming for public or private bats. With two main conditions. The price of water has to be decide every year or every few years by the public organization in charge. Most of the time, the city's council, metropolitan councils, most of the time, sometimes the state, the government. That's the first condition. And the second is concerning the investments. Investments have also to be decided by the public authority. Decided. If there is an agreement between the public government, the local authority governments and a private company to take in charge some investments. It's a political responsibility to the public authority. But again, water is a public good water has not to be privatized. You can privatize management maintenance, as you are doing for solid waste, as you are doing sometimes for energy. But the decisions or political decisions has to be kept by the local authority or by the government. Thank you very much. And Paolo sales has a question in your opinion, how can or how are, how is the pandemic influencing effective measures to assure water security. So do you think that the pandemic is having an influence on your work, and on the objective to assure water security for all. May first shake hand virtually to my friend paolo sales is a member of the world with a council from Brazil. We are in a very specific moment of the story of humanity. First of all, we have looked at the very beginning until now, that water is one of the first barrier water and soup to have clean hands, clean faces, clean bodies. Which is the first barrier, which is also affordable for the poorest people. That the reason that the World Water Council ascended 80,000 so pieces at the very beginning to our friends of Senegal. So that's the first water is very important as an hygienic and as a health tool and capacity to give a good health for people. Not only. We are working in the council and the authority of one of my colleague Ahmed Sachi from Turkey concerning the capacity to detect the COVID-19 in the sewage networks. It's a very, very. What can I say. I talk it prudently, but it shows that in the future, we will be able to have a sort of an alert, because you know that this pandemic situation in the sewage networks arrives. 810 days before that it arrives in our bodies for the person. For the rest. We, it's too short to understand. If this COVID, the pandemic situations globally will change our way of lives and we'll have the consequences on the water management. I'm not so sure. But next year and the year after, we will be very attentive to the consequences of the pandemic. It's a little, it's, it's not time to to consider this issue. We do not have any distance distance to do that. Okay, and I'm going to take two questions together now because they are very similar. The first is from Rachel cave, who says many citizens of nations which have plenty of water like Ireland refused to pay anything for it, and she means user charges there are no household charges in Ireland for water. Rachel says many citizens refuse to pay anything for it yet at the same time pollute water at every opportunity, thoughtlessly and deliberately. How do we foster the required level of understanding of how precious water is without making people pay through the nose for it, she says, and the similar question that's on the same team. I would appreciate it's something that has been controversial in Ireland the question of charges. Laura lahiff Irish people, unfortunately take water for granted, said Laura. How do you think we should start changing mindsets at local level to understand the importance of water security, and Laura is a postgraduate student in sustainability and university. Similar but a little bit different. In some Arabic countries, they say God give us water. But God doesn't pay the networks it doesn't pay the treatment plants. We have to pay it. Do you imagine that you will not pay for your mobile phone that you will not pay electricity. That the reason during my presentation I say, we are quite everywhere coming from a no price for water to a social price. What do we want. Somebody who has a huge house a huge home with a swimming pool with gardens. He has not to pay water. But I think that forest people. They, they could have the possibility to be free of charge concerning water. This is the political decision again. Social price is the responsibility of the political authority local or national. And also, for a long time when I was my own, I have stayed that we need to be in the situation to avoid to cut water at the top for the poorest population. And this is not a technical issue. It's very easy to solve it for water and for electricity. We have guaranteed a specific amount of water and electricity to other the minimum of dignity concerning the second part of the question. It's a very different situation in different countries. It will, it will take time to let population understand that water needs effort that water has a price, and it will come from education. You can have sometimes campaigns. That's useful. But at school. Children have to learn step by step. That some natural resources. Have to be protected. Sometimes to be paid. But to be protected. That's the reason. That in some countries, you, you are, when there is education concerning water, you can see the conception decreasing. And it will move forward in that direction during the future. So education, education, education. Thank you. A question from Moez Aloui, who's in Tunisia. And the questions as follows, I appreciate very much the horizontal vision being described by Mr. Foshan. But my impression is that sanitation is somehow not taking an important place in this vision, as well as the right to sanitation. It's an autonomous human right. Since the General Assembly resolution of 2015. Sanitation in the opinion of our questioner has to be a priority as access to basic services is very low compared to water and considering the health risks related to the lack of sanitation so it's focused on sanitation. That's the answer. Mr Chairman. Sanitation is too often led behind. Why, because in developing countries in the poorest countries. The decision makers. They are their priority as to bring water and electricity, and sometimes mobile phones to the population, and they forget to bring sanitation. Sanitation is one of the most important element of the human. Sanitation is a human right has water has energy. So, or can we do. Also, sanitation has to pay sanitation. You cannot be true with the population if you are decision maker political one, saying that it will be free free of charge sanitation cost more than water. Most of the time. And it will cost more. But it's a total obligation. If not, we are polluting. The rivers. They see show. Look at what the situation in the most important slums. In Africa. In Nairobi or Nigerian. And the pollution is a poison. Sometimes in rural areas you could have individual solution or semi collective solutions. But in the main city. In the main suburbs of the city. It moves us through a sewage treatment plants, which have an important cost in investments and in maintenance. Sanitation needs also the technicians to be able to maintain. So, we need to have it's part of the new consciousness of water to understand that sanitation is part of water of the cycle of water. And we need to have more charge to solve this problem in the future. So many questions coming in now. And so many very interesting people who have joined as well everybody who joins these webinars is interesting, of course, but we have some very, very interesting international participants. Mahmoud Abouzai, the president of the Arbwater Council is on the line, which is terrific and so many other participants from overseas, which is wonderful to have that kind of opportunity to for people to share their ideas and questions. Unfortunately, we've come to the end of our time. I see so many questions here. In relation to Africa, at least deba as water is as water is political. How do you deal politically with the situation in Africa where water is abundant in some areas, while scarce in other areas. And you might touch on that briefly questions about climate change coming in and the links that you've drawn yourself. I just we just don't have time really to, to handle anyone just flicking back up some David O'Connor of the EPA. Is it possible to effectively decommission large scale dams to restore river systems back to their original condition. Are you aware of any examples. Now it is just two o'clock, three o'clock your time. So we really have come to an end but I'll invite you to address one or both of those questions if you like just in a minute or so. I'm sorry to curtail you in that way. Mr Chairman first, I will be back next week. In the week after the weeks after. I'm very happy to hear that there's a lot of questions. That's what are very important issues and that water is politics. I would like to pay tribute to Mr Mahmoud Abouzaid, because he was the first president of the World Water Council. He has worked with him. He's a very great engineer. And he has also been a minister and was in charge of very important investments in south of Egypt. And I would like to study team and tell him publicly my respect and consideration. Thank you. That's terrific. And I'd like to join with you in thanking first of all all of the people who have joined us both here in Ireland and from overseas. And as you rightly say it does show a great interest in having this public discussion at this very important discussion public discussion about water which as you rightly said is is political water is politics. Mr Chairman, excuse me. Let me tell to all participants who have asked a question. I will be at the disposal to answer personally to their question is through your organization. Yes, I could receive these questions. Thank you very much for having me arranged to do that and that's a very generous offer. Thank you very much for that. And we'll pass on those questions, dozens of them actually that we still have that we weren't able to get to. We'll pass them on to your office and we'd be delighted if you could address them and we'll get those answers to, to the people who have asked them so thank you very much. And there's so much to think about and to ponder from what you've said both in your presentation and in the Q&A. Remember in particular, as I said the reference to the you know the very much that the fundamental political question that water is at the right to water. I think it would be fair to say that the right to water that you've emphasized so much. It's not a right to free water. It's a right to water but you talk about a social price and how that gets allocated. And that's a subject that I can tell you we debated long and hard in this country at one point in recent years and who knows maybe it's an issue that will, I'm quite sure will be revisited again at some point in the future for all of the reasons that you've said. So it's been a most interesting presentation. I want to thank you so much for giving your time also your colleagues in the organization the World Water Council for helping us to set up this event. This afternoon, but in particular to thank the week for Sean, the chief executive director general of the World Water Council for a most engaging presentation and for your willingness to answer all of the questions that we had time to put to you. Thank you all to the attendees also for your participation and for your enthusiasm for this session. Thank you all very much. Thank you and take care.