 starting today. Hi everybody, and welcome to this important webinar. I'm Ariel Gold, one of CodePink's co-directors. And my guest today is Celine Lebrun Schaath. Please tell me if I mispronounced that. No, that was great. The wife of Rami Schaath, who is an Egyptian political prisoner and also a leader of the BDS movement. Rami is Palestinian Egyptian and has been imprisoned in Egypt for quite a while. The Biden administration said that it would be basing its U.S. foreign policy on human rights, but this certainly has not applied yet to Egypt, and it's quite incredible conditions. But before, rather than me getting into that, Celine, I would love if you would start by telling the story of what happened. And then we can go back afterwards and talk about how you and Rami met, but just what happened on that day in Egypt? Yeah, of course. It all happened on July 5th, 2019, so over a year and a half ago. My husband was at home, and I was actually just going back home when I discovered our building was completely surrounded by security forces. All black-cladded, heavily armed, and I understood they were coming for Rami because of Rami political activism. I actually entered our building with them, and when I arrived at our flat, policemen were already inside. Rami was standing. They hadn't presented any warrant, and Rami was asking what they were looking for, and if there was any way that it could help them. They were not giving any answer. So honestly, when this happened, all I could think of, I had a thousand thoughts in my head. I've seen friends over the past, the previous years, being arrested in Egypt. Some of them went missing for several days or weeks, and so maybe this was something I was very afraid of, that they would take Rami, that he would disappear, and that I won't see him again, like it happened with other people. I was able to go to the toilet. I asked for it, and I had my phone with them, so I was able to send a quick message to the lawyer telling them that policemen were in our home, and then a policeman came, hit the door, and asked me to come out and took my phone, and from that moment until the second day in the morning, I didn't have any phone, and I was prevented from any communication, including to my consulate. Actually, I asked almost immediately to call the consulate, and the answer that was made was, since you want to call your consulate, well, you have 10 minutes to pack a bag, and we'll take you to the airport. They threatened me doing this, and if you don't want, we'll take you as you are to the airport as well. Rami was there that night, asked me to do what they were asking to prevent any harm to be made to me, so that's what I did. I packed the bag, and on my way out of the flat, I was about to say goodbye to Rami, and that's when they told him, well, you're coming with us as well, because up until that moment, we didn't know if they were actually arresting Rami or just coming to search the place and sees computers and hard disks. So they took Rami, I told him goodbye, so he climbed in a police van and me and another one, and I stayed for over 19 months without seeing him at all. That is such an intense and terrifying story, and now if we could go back a little bit and talk about, to the best of your knowledge, why Egypt targeted Rami? That's a tough question, because Egypt is not saying, first of all, the real reason why they arrested Rami. Like we're seeing with most of political activists, they are being accused of Trump upcharges related to some kind of terrorism, terrorist activities, so currently Rami, like most of political prisoners, prisoners of conscience in Egypt are faced with belonging to a terrorist group, terrorist group that is not named until today, we don't know what group is supposed to belong to, is accused of spreading face news, but no proof has been ever presented to justify those accusations and is being held in administrative preventive detention for almost two years now. So what we can do is only assume what are the real reason for him being targeted, and for that we can look at what was his activities before his arrest, and Rami's only activities at that time was the BDS movement, that has been a coordinator since its founding in 2015. So and 10 days before his arrest, there was the Bahrain's conference, so it was basically the conference that was called by Donald Trump and Netanyahu in Bahrain, and that was supposed to address the economic side of the deal of the century presented by Donald Trump. And a lot of Arab countries, some Arab countries participated in this conference, including Egypt, and Rami criticized, like any Egyptian citizen has the right to criticize this participation, and 10 days later later he was arrested. So looking at the sequence of events, we can assume that this might have been the thing that has triggered his arrest, but there is a long time, there is a long history of harassment against Rami. Back to the 90s when Rami first participated, for example, to the peaceful protest in his university against the first Gulf War, and then for more than 20 years it's been harassed, put under very tight monitoring by security forces, so yeah. So Rami is really a well-rounded political activist from Palestinian rights and the BBS movement to the situation in Egypt itself and what that has been like. Could you tell us a little bit of how you met him? Sure, of course. So Rami and I met in 2014 in a humanitarian convoy that was going to Gaza in December during the Israeli attack on Gaza, so Rami was co-organizing with other Egyptian activist convoy, bringing tons of medicines to Gaza and also hundreds of youth who wanted to go to show solidarity with the people of Gaza. So I joined this convoy and we met. And what's it been like in prison? What's the situation been like and especially with COVID? Yeah, so the situation is very hard. COVID, it was already very hard before COVID. So before COVID, since his arrest Rami is in an overcrowded cell and what I mean by overcrowded, the cell is approximately 240 square feet, so I don't know the size of the room where you are and where the people who are listening to us are, but that's approximately the size of it and is with 10 other cellmates in this room and they do everything in this room. Basically, so they sleep on the floor because there is obviously no space to put any bed, they sleep on the floor, on covers and the space also includes, so there is a small corner with where they cook in a very primitive way and there is also a shower with a hole in the middle. So it's both a shower and a toilet. So these are already very unsanitary conditions with absolutely no intimacy whatsoever. And since COVID, obviously we're extremely worried because the guards keep coming and going in and out of the prison. So the tenets inside are at risk of being contaminated and especially that guards are not necessarily always respecting the protective measures and this is something I was able to see with my own eyes when I went to Egypt in February. Sometimes guards didn't wear, were not wearing a mask. They were in very close proximity, etc. So and I want to add also that since May, actually Rami, we've seen detergents being banned from the prison. Why? Because a young man called Shadi Habash who was a filmmaker in prison because he made the clip of a satiric song about the Egyptian president committed suicides by drinking detergent. And unfortunately, the answer of the Egyptian authorities, the authorities of the prison, hadn't been to release those youth or you know, dying in prison of despair. No, it has been to ban detergent in the middle of a pandemic, which is a complete nonsense. So I'm worried today for Rami and his cellmates and the thousands of political prisoners else because if just one of one of them gets contaminated, they're all at risk due to the overcrowdedness of the cells. What kind of contact have you been able to have with Rami? So we've had very, very limited contacts since his arrest. We stayed for almost a year without any contact at all. Rami was I we were only allowed to speak to each other in May 2020. So almost a year after his arrest. Then we were allowed to speak a second time in August 2020. And then up until last February, so about two months ago, we had we were not allowed any contacts. And I was only allowed to visit him in February. So more than a year and a half ago, more than a year and a half after Rami's arrest, was I allowed to see him. Egypt granted me the right to go see my husband for about 10 days. I was able to go to Egypt. I saw him three times and for about 45 minutes each. And then I came back here in France. And I haven't seen him since we're writing to each other. But the letters are not always allowed either in or out. It's been, for example, three weeks that I haven't gotten any letter from Rami. And we know that Rami is writing, but that the authorities are not letting those letters pass. And actually, this probably means that Rami's health is not good because the only reason they would prevent him from writing is that Rami is writing that is not doing well. And that's something they're not allowing him to see. So we're worried. And what was it like when you when you did see him? How did his health seem or his spirits? When I saw him two months ago, he was in very high spirit. I think we both were in very high spirit. This visit came after such a long fight. Obviously, we both hoped that we would meet each other in an airport, either in Egypt or in France, obviously not in prison. But yet we were very happy to see each other. And so I think that took over everything else. I was able to see in his eyes that is still the same strong and humorous man and romantic man that I fell in love with. I was there during Valentine's Day. So he made a Valentine's card and invited me to dance, which might seem completely absurd in the place considering the place we were in. But that says a lot about his inner strengths. And that's giving me hope and strength to continue the fight until his freedom. So we have a question. I think folks tuning in are struggling to understand why Rami was an embarrassment to Egypt during the peace accords with Israel. Just kind of a little bit more if you could go into a little bit more of the dynamic between Israel and Egypt and the U.S. as well, but that made Rami consider a threat to Egypt. I think unfortunately today the Egyptian government is just not tolerating any criticism. That's not necessarily more complicated than that. Rami criticized the Egyptian external policies and Egypt just decided that that was not allowed. And that's very sad, but that's what we see with so many issues, unfortunately. And instead of really looking at those people, Rami is a very knowledgeable man, is graduated from King's College, is a very fine strategist and political analyst. And so instead of embracing these people or the wealth of this country and they're just jailing them. And that's true for Rami. That's true for the thousands of political prisoners who, you know, it's just a waste of people's life. So I think that's, yeah, I wouldn't go necessarily further than that. And Rami had also this capacity of bringing people together. And I think that's also another thing that Egyptian authorities maybe didn't like. It was organizing and that's also another issue. So MSD International has been working on his case and they have a petition and we're going to share that in the chat and encourage folks to sign on to that. And we'll talk a little bit more about what we can do beyond signing the petition in a moment. But I know the United Nations, also the UN, UN experts have spoken out for Rami and called for his release. What other momentum has been building and how has this been helpful? Yeah, I mean over the past 21 months, we've seen an amazing campaign of solidarity for Rami and this campaign is growing every day. And I want here to thank Cut Pink for joining the movement and all the organizations that you've named and there are so many more. We've seen a huge movement also among lawmakers for Rami and all Egyptian political prisoners. I want, I mean, relevant to the US context. Last October, about 60 members of Congress, both senators and representatives signed an open letter to President Sisi asking him to ask Egypt to release Rami and Egyptian political prisoners. They were joined by over 200 European lawmakers as well. Somehow in a kind of like unprecedented mobilization from lawmakers on both sides of the Atlantic. So that's very hurtwarming. We've seen in France, for example, a city council recently awarded Rami the honorary citizenship. And so I don't know if that's something that's done in the US or in other countries. But if among those listening to us, you have any link with your city councils, etc. And that's something you can also present as a possible action of solidarity. And that's that helps a lot and making Rami's story known around the world. So we've seen also celebrities, public figures speak out. People like obviously Roger Wolters, Angela Davis, and so many more. Sorry, I'm forgetting the names, but Peter Gabriel, or you can find all those artists and public figures spoken up spoken out for Rami on our Facebook page and our Instagram accounts. They have recorded short videos that you can find. So that's that's really they are so so so much that happens. And I hope it can do even more until Rami is released. And we're going to be putting the free Rami Facebook page in the chat. And we have the the free Rami website in the chat as well. And I want to encourage folks within there. And we also have Code Pink's action to members of Congress, which is also in the chat and tweet at members of Congress. And what I want to encourage folks is if you go to the free Rami website and you see the amnesty petition, you'll also see how to go a step further and how to write a specific letter. We know that personal contact phone calls, op eds, meeting with your representatives and others really takes actions one step further and has an incredible impact on cases. Now you have there's some important dates in this case coming up if you could talk to us about them. Yeah, of course. So the most important dates that's coming up it's July 5. Why it's important because on July 5, Rami will reach two years of preventive detention. Law in Egypt allows people to be held in pretrial detentions for up to two years, which is already completely insane. Rami is being held currently without any proof, without any judgment. We don't know if there is ever going to be a trial because he's held pending investigation. So he's not formally charged with anything. And what we see is that in most of the cases, they're not charged at all. And they're just released after years of pretrial detention. So on July 5, he will reach the two years limit. What we hope is to really secure his release before that or at that time, at most, because unfortunately, what we see, what we've seen over the past months and years, it's a pattern of recycling. It's not a very elegant term, but that's the term that's been given to this practice. Basically, when activists reached the end of those two years, the prosecutor orders their release. But right before they are actually freed, they are being accused in a new case. And so they are sent back to pretrial detention for two years. And so it's a vicious circuit that never ends. And so that's what we're trying to prevent from happening today. And I want to highlight the fact that Rami's in a case is not the only one is being held in a case that's called the Hope case with another 10 well known political activists. And they will also reach this two year limit. And so mobilization for Rami is very important for Rami, but also for all the others who are being held with him. It's also important for Rami's colleague called Mohamed al-Masri, another member of the BDS movement in Egypt, who was arrested about two months after Rami's arrest. So we can see that there is some kind of direct attack against the BDS movement in Egypt. And so we need to speak up to protect those activists, lawyers, human rights activists, journalists who are being detained today. Egypt is one of the most repressive countries and has an enormous number of prisoners and some of the most deplorable prison conditions. And another fact about Egypt is that Egypt receives the second largest amount of US military assistance after Israel. So we see these connections here between silencing voices of change and dissent and support for Palestinian rights and alliances between the US, Egypt and Israel and financial support for brutal military regimes. As we get ready to wind down, I'm going to bring my colleague Danika on because after this, we're going to Danika and I are going to talk on Clubhouse about Rami's case and the situation of political prisoners in Egypt and what folks can do and also about US military assistance to Egypt. Welcome, Danika. Hello. Thank you so much, Selene, for sharing Rami's story with us today. If anyone who is in the audience or listening has a question, please feel free to drop it in the chat or Q&A section and I can direct it to Selene. So we made this social media toolkit to help share Rami's story and his petition. I understand his birthday is coming up and there is a petition signature goal. Would you be able to speak a little bit on that? Yeah, that's true. So yeah, I spoke about the two years limit. So that's the most important date, but basically from today until that date, we're really hoping to mobilize and another important date that we're going to see is June 23rd with Rami's birthday and so it will be two weeks before the end of the two years. So basically, we're still building, but we are hoping to gather as many signatures on the petition that was mentioned by Ariel and to be able to go and deliver it to the Egyptian embassies to make our voices heard before we reach the end of the two years on Rami's birthday. And we're also inviting people. So as you will see in the toolkit that is being shared by Kotpink on each 5th of the month. Also, we're hoping to really use this time. So it's the anniversary of Rami's arrest to really use this date to speak about Rami. So if you can join us on each 5th of the month, mark it in your calendar right now. Put it on repeat every month on the 5th and join us on social media by tweeting, writing about Rami. And I also want to call on anyone here who has artistic or graphic skills and would like to contribute with hard work and hard work as well. But with hard work to the campaign, please go ahead. We've had a lot of people, supporters around the world, sending us designs or even paintings. Right now in France, tens, dozens of people are actually taking pictures of them holding a sign saying, please join us in any way you can. You can publish directly those pictures, tag the campaign like hashtag free Rami Shas or send them to us. And we will make sure to publish them. And for anybody that's only listening by audio, you can find the website which has so many of these tools on it. It's free Rami Shas and Shas is spelled S-H-A-A-T-H dot com. That's F-R-E-E-R-A-M-Y-S-H-A-A-T-H dot com. So please go there, sign the petition, use the toolkit, forward the petition to your friends and share it on social media. As we get ready to head over to Clubhouse to spread this campaign to more folks, any closing thoughts that you would like to share with us, Salim? Well, I just hope that next time Rami can be here and speak to everyone here about his work and yeah, that's my hope. And thank you again to Cut Pink for being part of this global movement to release Rami and all Egyptian political prisoners and prisoners of conscience around the world. Thank you. Thank you so much. And anybody who's on Clubhouse, please head on over to join us there. Danica, if you could tell folks how to find it once we get there. Yes, one second. Let me send the link to the Clubhouse so people can just In the meantime, one last thing, people on the website, they can also subscribe to the newsletter so to get further calls to action and stay in touch with the campaign. So I hope there's something to flag. And Code Pink will also be sending out updates about the campaign as we get closer to Rami's birthday and the court date. We'll be keeping you up to date on all of that and giving you reminders of everything to do. And I want to thank everybody for joining in and we hope very soon by this summer at the latest to be able to be celebrating Rami's release. Anybody who's on Clubhouse, please join us in just a few minutes for that. It'll just take a moment for us to exit out of Zoom and head over there. Wonderful. Thank you to everyone. Have a great day. Thank you so much, Celine.