 So thanks to all of you joining us here today for another amazing episode of the nonprofit show. It is Monday, Monday morning. I hope that you're all starting off refreshed. Every show I like to say thank you so much to all of our presenting sponsors. Julie and I believe that you believe in the work that we do as sponsors and thank you so much but you go beyond every corner of this globe and support so many mission driven causes around the nation and even further so all of these presenting sponsors are not just here for the show. They're here for each and every one of you to elevate your mission and to help help your causes. So thank you so much to our sponsors do us a favor and share this particular episode with at least three of your friends so that other individuals in the sector know that this is here. I think we all need to continue sharing positive and good news so do that. Thank you to Julia Patrick for starting this amazing show Julia is the CEO of the American nonprofit Academy. I am her very grateful comrade in this Jarrett Ransom also known as the nonprofit nerd CEO of the Raven group and this week we've got such a lineup fundraising Academy will be back on with us. We've got boardable coming on this week so really a full robust lineup. But today you are joining us for the live or perhaps archive Lisa Brown Alexander president and CEO of nonprofit HR. Also a very supporter big supporter of the show so thank you Lisa for being a supporter and a sponsor and welcome. Thank you for being a guest today. Thank you for having me I'm glad to be here. Now you, nonprofit you're coming to us from the DC area, but nonprofit HR when I talked to your team members and spoiler alert we have some other folks from your team coming on to talk about different things. They're all you're all over you have offices all over so can you share with us what that looks like Lisa. Yeah, sure we started out as a local firm local to the DC area and over the last 21 years we've expanded across the country and now have employees in 22 states. So we're excited about that from coast to coast California to literally Maine. And we're glad about it it gives us a good diverse perspective and an insight into what's happening on the ground and the nonprofit communities where we've got folks so it's a good thing. This is so important and and I know I'm jumping in here and Julie is like, you know, ready to go to as I as I think about how the landscape shifts and different communities in our nation, and how that impacts, you know, the human resource element of employment and how we work with our volunteers and, you know, in our staff, I love to hear that nonprofit HR is so representative across the nation so that is wonderful. Absolutely we are and it not only of the nation but also of all of the various dimensions of diversity that exist in today's workforce we've got men we've got women we've got folks who identify as straight those who identify as LGBTQ. Black staff, white staff, Asian staff Latino staff, and folks from all over the country and even beyond right and so it's exciting and it's a good way to keep driving innovation and creativity by having all of those differences come together. Before we move on, I have to believe that 21 years ago, first of all you look like you're 21 so you must have started this when you're a toddler, but was there anybody talking about nonprofit HR 21 years ago. No one. And therefore I was deemed crazy. Why would I leave my good cushy corner office job and leave my rubber tree plant behind but it was best move I made and it's been liberating and encouraging and fulfilling really to spearhead the firm and to see the growth that has happened not just with our firm but really as a factor right. So now we're talking about talent now we're making a connection between talent and sustainability but that conversation was not being had Julia 21 years ago. And it was, I took a little bit of a chance but that's what I like to do I'm a bit of a rebel rouser risk taker as a tater. You're in good company Lisa. We like that. I'm glad that I did. I'm glad that I did. Wow. Well, you know part of being the disruptor and doing something different. You all started something which I think is fascinating and it's called the nonprofit women to watch, and you do this every kind of the first quarter of every year right and this. This is it's a recognition but it's a process for I think the conversation to change and so we, as I mentioned we have other folks from your team come on to talk about we have somebody coming on to talk about compensation we have somebody coming on to talk about diversity strategies. But this I think is just such an interesting thing that you've done and so we wanted to kind of bring you into to talk about that. So these are your winners and you can see that they come from all parts of the sector you I love that you have, you know, you have veterans you have somebody from, you know, firefighter service you have all different things which is super interesting. Talk to us about how these women were nominated selected like what's the process so that we can be thinking about how to get involved next year with the women that we want to push forward. It's not a hard thing to do there are so many talented, highly engaged powerful women in the nonprofit sector and some folks may not know but the nonprofit sector workforce is made up of 70% women. Right. And so it's a big audience of folks to pull from and the diversity in the organizations that you, you know, saw on that list is reflective of the diversity of the sector many times people think about nonprofits I think soup kitchen, homeless shelter, maybe an arts organization, but the sector is so much bigger and broader than that and we want to celebrate every aspect of it and we've done that through this women to watch list. And we this year we did something different we went out to the community to ask them who they thought should be recognized we've been doing it ourselves for the last couple of years. This year we said you know what no let's hear from others. We got over 70 nominations from across the country. And we will be down to the group of dynamic women, all who share and common some some some really important characteristics like being willing to be bold and to take risk and to show empathy and to lead both in spot partnership but also in action. And so it was not a hard effort it's something that we do every year, and we line it up with women's history month in March. And that's typically when we release the list. I love it. Okay, so I am thinking of some women that I have to nominate for next year, because I love what you said. I mean, Jared if you're good to me maybe I'll nominate you but I wasn't thinking. I'm sorry I've already soured that milk so I'm not going to even worry. I just couldn't fill out that nomination form. Well, I want to talk to you I want to dig a little bit deeper because while you have these women that are so accomplished, I want to get into your mind and as an HR expert. Talk about what some of these traits might be because I think that as we are looking for leadership and as we are seeing the demographics bleed off so much talent through retirement burnout me Jared, we talked about this a lot compassion fatigue. So, I can't imagine there aren't too many of our viewers that are wrestling with some sort of HR piece themselves so if we could kind of drill down and talk about what you're seeing in terms of traits of leadership with with some of these winners. And what they shared in common I mentioned being bold, and that's something that a lot of women struggle with women leaders struggle with being bold and not being perceived as being too aggressive and over the top and, but the women that are leading are taking bold unprecedented action in the areas of their areas of specialty and their areas of focus and it's boldness that brings about change right. And so they're sharing that they're sharing that in common being bold be nuanced, being agile, recognizing that there are complexities to each of their organizations and the communities that those organizations are attached to. And that that's what they share in common as well. And they're also challenged as as anyone who's a leadership or has been over the last year. They're challenged with reconciling the need to go forward and push the mission forward with stepping back back and giving space to their, their internal stakeholders their staff their volunteers their board to live with their own communities of political crisis racial conflict. The COVID-19 pandemic right so many things kind of converging all at once. And so we're seeing these women share the characteristics of equity, empathy and engagement with with with those that they're connected to. Do you think that these women. And this might seem like an odd question but do you think that these women were like the leaders of their childhood, like, you know they were, you know, captain of the softball team they might have been in student that this has been a pattern and it's been a trait from birth or do you think that these ladies are developing this or you know it's it's maybe a newer piece of their life. I would say it's probably a nuanced version of both right. My experience is that the strongest. The most impactful leaders have that innate trait to me. So they kind of showed up in the world as leaders, much like others show up in the world to be supporters, both are equally important but my guess is that if we went back into the childhoods of those women, they were leading when they were six and seven years old right and the soccer club or the Girl Scouts or in their churches and synagogues and mosque. I would imagine that many of them are natural born leaders, we didn't dig but that's an interesting angle to take the next time we do this maybe look at their lives as children. But yeah I'm guessing that they are I know for me as a woman leader. I talked to a neighbor of mine the other day from childhood, I have no qualms about sharing my age I'm 52 years old. And she remembered me as like a six year old and she goes, is your, you know, do you saw the loudmouth, and you asked about it, but I probably did. And here we are 52 years later, I'm still being a loudmouth and I've embraced my loudmouthness. Yeah, absolutely it is. And so I'm guessing that these women, you know, they showed up to this world of leaders. That's my guess to and one of my questions I would like to ask and you may not know maybe the applications or the submissions did ask for this information but I would love to know to like what are the age ranges of the women that were maybe you know awarded but I would love to know and this is kind of, you know, rich protocol you don't have to know it right at this minute. But like of all the women that were nominated and submitted I would love to know like where are we seeing the highest demographic and that age range. I too don't mind sharing I'm 42 turning 43 next two months actually. And I have truly loved like the evolution of age. I've heard from so many, you know, wise women ahead of me saying, the older you get the more comfortable you become in your skin. I talked a lot about my mom earlier in my chitty chat chat session and how you know I wanted to save the world and I wanted to talk to everyone, my dad on the other hot side will definitely tell you that I had leadership qualities. Right. I eat loudmouth bossy assertive aggressive and I was also the one that got probably the most yellow and red cards on the soccer field because I was probably that that ambitious. But I would love to know, do you happen to, you know, know right now Lisa like what are the age ranges that we're identifying in this list know that they range from the late 20s to the 60s. So it's a pretty broad range representative of the workforce. Right. Right. But I don't have specific data on their ages. Interesting. Let's talk about in the nonprofit service. You know in the nonprofit sector. Let's talk about dedication, because this is one of those things that I think a lot of times we label our leaders with a different. Like we almost put a yoke on them that's different than the for profit like oh you know, you have to be dedicated you have to be willing to sacrifice and bear the brunt of things that are leaders in the for profit world would never tolerate. And so I'd love to know kind of how you, you measure this this trait of dedication. You know, I think the nonprofit sector, the social impact space however you refer to it draws a certain type of person right, and that's the person who's dedicated to a cause a mission, the betterment of people, the enhancement of society so I do think there is a certain level of dedication that you just have to have if you're going to hang out in this space for any length of time. So I do think we all share that regardless of where we sit on the org chart, right, that there is a commitment to improving the lives of others through systems and policy and and the like. So I do think that that that that's something that we all share. I really do. Yeah, it makes me think about and I know I talked about this before Julia. The fight flight are freeze characteristics, you know, and as you say Lisa we show up we universal we nonprofit nerds show up in this sector because we believe in the enhancement of others because we believe in doing good, because we are so committed and committed to serving others. And I believe in return it's serving ourself, but I have really seen so many leaders step up over these last 18 months, truly in that fight mentality where most, not most some people that aren't wired this way into the nonprofit sector might take a backseat, you know, or, or whatnot so I imagine all of these women that have been recognized on your list this year. Also, with, you know, would relate to that fight kind of mentality which to me means we roll up our sleeves and we step in, we go towards the fire. Right. And you know I don't want to spoil it for the next member of your team it's going to come on and talk about compensation, but you know, I feel like sometimes when we use the word dedication. We kind of send a supplemental message that you shouldn't ask for you know competitive wage. You shouldn't ask for benefits. You shouldn't be taking time off. You know, you kind of are treated less than by your peers and by your community and I'm wondering if these women voice that or if they exhibit any of that. You know, they didn't voice it specifically through this effort, but that's kind of a collective unspoken truth for some in the sector right so it's either dedication or money but you don't get both. You don't get your choose right, but I would say that increasingly that's changing the work of the social impact sector is critical to the success of this country and if we never believed it before. COVID should tell us, right, that's right. Education, health care, homelessness, all and social, socioeconomic difference all came kind of thrusting to the front of most of our lives in the last 18 months and so I'm hopeful that now more than ever women leaders know their worth and that the sector knows their words and government understands their words and the private sector understands their words right. Working for the nonprofit sector should not be equivalent to taking a vow of poverty. You can work in the sector and be paid at the same time. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I just need to hear that one more time. Oh, absolutely. It's not be a vow of poverty to work for the sector now recognizing all organizations are resource differently and some are really bootstrapping it, but the expectation that I should give my time and talent to an organization, and not be fairly compensated as an educated one. It's one that has gone by the way of, you know, the dinosaur and we really need to get, get ourselves together from a perspective that if I'm, I'm giving you my best I'm giving you my knowledge my expertise my education my experience. You've got to pay me for that. Right, and not be okay with just paying the consultant but pay me as the employee within the organization doing the work on the ground. Absolutely. Okay, we're going to cut that snippet and share it viral. You know, I could talk to you for so, for so long and unfortunately we only have like about another 10 minutes but I want to know about the traits of impact, and what you saw because this is one of the things that I've observed throughout my life and I'm older than the I'm going to give you ladies because I'm going to be 60 very shortly. I know clutch your pearls. Are you wearing pearls today. I am. Okay, clutch your pearls Jared. You know, I, one of these big things is that I see women of a certain age, really reticent to talk about their wins to talk about their achievements about their impact because it's like, oh, that's too braggadocious. And, but men are very comfortable doing that, even when it's not warranted they tend to, you know, move into this I heard Cheryl Sandberg speak in our community was very, very privileged to be with her. And she told a story about how if women are looking at a job, you know, application it says, you need to speak Mandarin Chinese I'll be like, Oh, you know I only have a bachelor's not a master's. And he would apply for it, but a man would look at that and say, Oh, I love, you know kung fu movies, I can learn Chinese, and he would apply for it. Right and it's just this like this umbrella of how we define impact for ourselves in our communities. And I'm wondering what you saw there because it's just, it's crippling for women I think. I think you raise a good point there there are some generational differences right so those of us who are on the older scale and I will, I will draw a line or what that is but but those of us who've been working in the workforce for a while were trained, either intentionally or not to not kind of sing our own phrases. I think millennials are are completely free of that limitation. And, and many of the folks who are in our workforce now making up the majority of the workforce are very clear about their, their value and their expectations for equitable treatment and, and they speak to that very freely. And those of us who are a little older were you know brought up at a time where you don't brag about what you do and if you're a woman, especially not if you're a woman of color even more so, because that would be interpreted as overly aggressive and many organizations just didn't know how to work with that so and instances, many instances still don't. But, but younger women I think are free of that, that restriction. Thank you so much for bringing that up, especially, you know women of color because that is certainly a topic that I would love to hear more on. And it's just, it's so important, right it is so important, and all of this is truly important. You were saying earlier when we first started that you know for you to leave your full time corporate job and I just picked you in this corner corner office. Right, walnut credenza right beautiful. Oftentimes in the nonprofit sector it's like, I don't know there's an empty seat just take that you know and it kind of really has has been that. But I believe high risk high reward and as an entrepreneur that's really what I have lived my life doing both my parents were entrepreneurs are entrepreneurs. So I was raised in that household and I say, like leadership right that runs in my DNA so that high risk, the high reward. And I'm so grateful to see more women entering the sector and entering the sector at a higher, exactly level. Absolutely. Absolutely. And as I mentioned earlier the sector is made up of more than 70% women right despite what we may see in organizations with men oftentimes being in positions of leadership. The folks be below the C, C sweet in many instances are women. And our challenge or our DEI challenge in the sector is gender diversity right it's not that we can't find people of color or younger people. It's a hard time finding men in lower level position, non executive level positions so with it's pretty interesting but yeah as women of color we've got some additional burdens. We all know about the data that says that no black woman earns about 85% of what a white man does or less actually 60 in the 60% range. And so it's, it's tough for a variety of reasons being a woman of color right now a leader of color, but I'm also encouraged by the young women of color who are speaking up who are finding their voices who are leading in with different expectations and then I may have had coming up and so I think everyone's kind of trying to find their voice right now one of the best things about COVID is that new people have had the opportunity to lead and people are actually listening. And some of us are trying to learn our voices, voices and new languages. Oh my gosh, I am with Julia, I want to just like go on a retreat with you Lisa and like just talk to you 24 seven I think it's so important. This will definitely be an episode that many will come back to and replay. So much of this really goes into kind of the future you know when we look at globally and especially nationally our leadership is changing and we now have Vice President Harris, you know, in office and really you know setting a new opportunity new possibility. And so really having those those role models in these offices, I think will continue and I hope will continue to elevate the opportunity, you know, for so many women, all women. And I remember my mom, you know, telling me that she only thought she could be a nurse to teach or a teacher growing up right like that was that was her reality. And it's, it's not bad anymore and I'm just thrilled, I'm thrilled and I cannot wait to see where we go with that and love that nonprofit HR is here to support, you know, you serve every sector am I correct in that when every sector within the nonprofit sector so our clients are all nonprofits association foundations and social enterprise and impact organization. Before I let you go and this is kind of like an off the cuff question, but I'm wondering when you look at resumes and you look at all of the folks you know trying to get into the sector. And now for like the last 10 years we've had more structured educational opportunities you can get degrees and nonprofit management and things like that. Is that helping, or are you seeing more of that from the, the, you know, the marketplace. And if you could address that. It's kind of a mixed bag we're seeing people who have backgrounds and nonprofit management, particularly younger people who are going into college knowing I want to work in the social impact space. But we're also seeing people, what we call sector switchers people who are coming from banking and finance and, you know, corporate life, who want something different. And that's to make a more meaningful impact and feel they can do it through social sector organizations so if it is a mixed bag. I know when I was going to school there were no degrees even in HR, right they were very hard to find. You got a general business management degree but you didn't get a degree in human resources. Now those are available lesson right as our degrees and entrepreneurship social entrepreneurship. So it's just, you know, 30 years ago 35 years ago. Interesting. Yeah, absolutely. Well, it's, it has just been remarkable I have loved every minute of this. Lisa Brown Alexander Wow what an incredible journey that you've been on, just to identify that our sector needs this major foundational piece I mean we talked about HR things Jared don't mean I mean all the time. So much of what we talked about goes back to HR on the nonprofit show and with our guests and so here's Lisa's information, check out nonprofit HR.com, you'll be able to see and read more about this year's winners. Really interesting stories, each one of this women have and how their journey and what they do within the nonprofit sector so nonprofit HR.com. And Lisa we want to also thank you as being one of our intrepid sponsors. Again I'm Julia Patrick CEO of the American nonprofit Academy. Wow Jared, that's good that you could do that because we have to do that opposite. No, it is, you know, Vanna white is from my home state just say no more, say no more. So the nonprofit nerd also akin to Vanna white, which we're just now learning the CEO of the Raven group my intrepid co host, thank you so much. We want to remind everyone that we have the book club it's really a cool way for you to engage your team, maybe get some new discussions going. And we've curated a book of a list of books, we're adding to it if you've written a book about the nonprofit sector. Let us know because maybe that's something that we can include in our book club most of these books, the authors have been guests on nonprofit show. I just want to jump in Lisa if you have a nonprofit HR book that you think we recommend would love to know that as well. You know there is one book that I have started reading called conscious capitalism. And I'm not remembering the author's name right now but it's a great book. So add that to your list. Okay. I'm on it. I got it. Thank you. Thank you. We need. Yeah, we're always up for this because we think that this sharing knowledge is like a big part of what we've been able, but we've missed not being together little snippets and so by maybe structuring some more dialogue I think it's a healthier thing for everyone. Again, we want to thank our presenting sponsors without you we would not be here having this dynamic conversation as we have had today. Hey, Jared, a start off of the week. I'm super excited. My mind is blown my heart is racing I have chilled head from toe like what a wonderful episode to start the week. My mind is racing as well we've got some other amazing guests coming up this week so you don't want to miss it and but if you do don't forget that you can always access any of our episodes, almost 300 now so we're coming up on our 300 episode here soon, and you can access you know all of that online so thank you so much for joining us and Julia, I will let you take us out I don't want to steal your thunder. I was going to say, are you have you forgotten our sign off. No, you got it. Well, we run. Lisa we end every show with our meat. It's like our mantra and as I think our maybe I just do it for myself it's centering but we always end every show with the message to stay well. So you can do well. Love it. We are so appreciative of your time and talent, and believe me, we will see you back on the nonprofit show.