 Chapter 6 through 8 of Irenaeus Against Heresies, Book 2. This is a LibriVox recording. All LibriVox recordings are in the public domain. For more information or to volunteer, please visit LibriVox.org. Recording by Marian Martin. Irenaeus Against Heresies, Book 2. Translated by Alexander Roberts and William H. Rombo. Chapter 6. Angels and the Creator of the world could not have been ignorant of the Supreme God. How again could either the angels or the Creator of the world have been ignorant of the Supreme God, seeing they were His property and His creatures, and were contained by Him? He might indeed have been invisible to them on account of His superiority, but He could by no means have been unknown to them on account of His providence. For, though it is true as they declare that they were very far separated from Him through their inferiority of nature, yet as His dominion extended over all of them, it behoved them to know their ruler and to be aware of this in particular, that He who created them is Lord of all. For since His invisible essence is mighty, it confers on all a profound mental intuition and perception of His most powerful, yea, omnipotent greatness. Wherefore, although no one knows the Father except the Son, nor the Son except the Father, and those to whom the Son will reveal Him, yet all beings do know this one fact at least, because reason implanted in their minds moves them and reveals to them the truth that there is one God, the Lord of all. And on this account, all things have been by general consent placed under the sway of Him who is styled the most high and the almighty. By coiling upon Him, even before the coming of our Lord, men were saved both from most wicked spirits and from all kinds of demons and from every sort of apostate power. This was the case not as if earthly spirits or demons had seen Him, but because they knew of the existence of Him, who is God overall, at whose invocation they trembled as there does tremble every creature and principality and power and every being endowed with energy under His government. By way of parallel, shall not those who live under the empire of the Romans, although they have never seen the emperor, but are far separated from Him both by land and sea, know very well as they experience His rule, who it is that possesses the principal power in the state? How then could it be that those angels who were superior to us in nature or even He whom they call the creator of the world did not know the Almighty when even dumb animals tremble and yield at the invocation of His name? And as, although they have not seen Him, yet all things are subject to the name of our Lord, so must they also be to His who made and established all things by His word, since it was no other than He who formed the world. And for this reason do the Jews even now put demons to flight by means of this very adoration in as much as all beings fear the invocation of Him who created them. If then they shrink from affirming that the angels are more irrational than the dumb animals, they will find that it behoved these, although they had not seen Him who is God overall, to know His power and sovereignty. For it will appear truly ridiculous if they maintain that they themselves indeed who dwell upon the earth know Him who is God over all whom they have never seen, but will not allow Him who, according to their opinion, formed them and the whole world, although He dwells in the heights and above the heavens, to know those things with which they themselves, though they dwell below, are acquainted. This is the case unless per chance they maintain that Bithys lives in Tartarus below the earth and that on this account they have attained to a knowledge of Him before those angels who have their abode on high. Thus do they rush into such an abyss of madness as to pronounce the Creator of the world void of understanding. They are truly deserving of pity, since with such utter folly they affirm that He, the Creator of the world, neither knew His mother, nor Her seed, nor the plerama of the eons, nor the propator, nor what those things were which He made. But that these are images of those things which are within the plerama, the Saviour having secretly laboured that they should be so formed by the unconscious Demiurge in honour of those things which are above. Chapter 7 Created things are not the images of those eons who are within the plerama. While the Demiurge was thus ignorant of all things, they tell us that the Saviour conferred honour upon the plerama by the creation which He summoned into existence through means of His mother, inasmuch as He produced similitudes and images of those things which are above. But I have already shown that it was impossible that anything should exist beyond the plerama in which external region they tell us that images were made of those things which are within the plerama, or that this world was formed by any other one than the Supreme God. But if it is a pleasant thing to overthrow them on every side and to prove them vendors of falsehood, let us say in opposition to them that if these things were made by the Saviour to the honour of those which are above after their lightness, then it behoved them always to endure that those things which have been honoured should perpetually continue in honour. But if they do in fact pass away, what is the use of this very brief period of honour? An honour which at one time had no existence and which shall again come to nothing. In that case I shall prove that the Saviour is rather an aspirant after vain glory than one who honours those things which are above. For what honour can those things which are temporal confer on such as are eternal and endure forever? Or those which pass away on such as remain? Or those which are corruptible on such as are incorruptible? Since even among men who are themselves mortal there is no value attached to that honour which speedily passes away, but to that which endures as long as it possibly can. But those things which as soon as they are made come to an end may justly be said rather to have been formed for the contempt of such as are thought to be honoured by them, and that that which is eternal is contrameliously treated when its image is corrupted and dissolved. But what if their mother had not wept and laughed and been involved in despair? The Saviour would not then have possessed any means of honouring the fullness in as much as her last state of confusion did not have substance of its own by which it might honour the propator. Alas for the honour of ainglory which at once passes away and no longer appears, there will be some aeon in whose case such honour will not be thought at all to have had an existence, and then the things which are above will be unhonoured, or it will be necessary to produce once more another mother weeping and in despair in order to the honour of the plurimer. What are dissimilar and at the same time blasphemous image? Do you tell me that an image of the only begotten was produced by the former of the world whom again ye wish to be considered the noose, mind of the Father of all, and yet maintain that this image was ignorant of itself, ignorant of creation, ignorant too of the mother, ignorant of everything that exists and of those things which were made by it? And are you not ashamed while, in opposition to yourselves, you ascribe ignorance even to the only begotten himself? For if these things below were made by the Saviour, after the similitude of those which are above, while he, the Demiurge, who was made after such similitude, was in so great ignorance, it necessarily follows that around him and in accordance with him, after whose likeness be that is thus ignorant was formed, ignorance of the kind in question spiritually exists. For it is not possible, since both were produced spiritually and neither fashioned nor composed, that in some the likeness was preserved, while in others the likeness of the image was spoiled. That image which was here produced, that it might be according to the image of that production which is above. But if it is not similar, the charge will then attach to the Saviour who produced a dissimilar image of being, so to speak, an incompetent workman. For it is out of their power to affirm that the Saviour had not the faculty of production since they style him all things. If then the image is dissimilar, he is a poor workman and the blame lies according to their hypothesis with the Saviour. If on the other hand it is similar, then the same ignorance will be found to exist in the noose, mind of their propator, that is the only begotten. The noose of the father in that case was ignorant of himself, ignorant too of the father, ignorant moreover of those very things which were formed by him. But if he has knowledge, it necessarily follows also that he who was formed by his likeness by the Saviour should know the things which I like and thus according to their own principles their monstrous blasphemy is overthrown. Apart from this however how can those things which belong to creation various, manifold and innumerable as they are be the images of those 30 eons which are within the plerama whose names, as these men fix them, I have set forth in the book which precedes this and not only will they be unable to adapt the vast variety of creation at large to the comparative smallness of their plerama but they cannot do this even with respect to any one part of it whether that possessed by celestial or terrestrial beings or those that live in the waters for they themselves testify that their plerama consists of 30 eons but any one will undertake to show that in a single department of those created beings which have been mentioned they reckon that there are not 30 but many thousands of species how then can those things which constitute such a multi-form creation which are opposed in nature to each other and disagree among themselves and destroy the one the other be the images and likenesses of the 30 eons of the plerama if indeed as they declare these being possessed of one nature are of equal and similar properties and exhibit no differences among themselves for it was incumbent if these things are images of those eons in as much as they declare that some men are wicked by nature and some on the other hand naturally good to point out such differences also among their eons and to maintain that some of them were produced naturally good while some were naturally evil so that the supposition of the likeness of those things might harmonize with the eons moreover, since there are in the world some creatures that are gentle and others that are fierce some that are innocuous while others are hurtful and destroy the rest some have their abode on the earth others in the water others in the air and others in the heaven in light manner they are bound to show that the eons possess such properties if indeed the one are the images of the others and besides the eternal fire which the father has prepared for the devil and his angels they ought to show of which of those eons that are above it is the image for it too is reckoned part of the creation if however they say that these things are the images of the anthemesis of that eon who fell into passion then first of all they will act impiously against their mother by declaring her to be the first cause of evil and corruptible images and then again how can those things which are manifold and dissimilar and contrary in their nature be the images of one and the same being and if they say that the angels of the plerama are numerous and that those things which are many are the images of these in this way either will the account they give be satisfactory for in the first place they are then bound to point out differences among the angels of the plerama which are mutually opposed to each other even as the images existing below are of a contrary nature among themselves and then again since there are many innumerable angels who surround the creator as all the prophets of knowledge are saying for instance ten thousand times ten thousand stood beside him and many thousands of thousands ministered unto him then according to them the angels of the plerama will have as images the angels of the creator and the entire creation remains in the image of the plerama but so that the thirty eons no longer correspond to the manifold variety of the creation either if these things below were made after the similitude of those above after the lightness of which again will those then be made for if the creator of the world did not form these things directly from his own conception but like an architect of no ability or a boy receiving his first lesson copied them from archetypes furnished by others then once did their bithas obtain the forms of that creation which he had first produced it clearly follows that he must have received the model from some other who is above him and that one in turn from another and nonetheless for these suppositions the talk about images as about gods will extend to infinity if we do not at once fix our mind on one artificer and on one god who of himself formed those things which have been created or is it really the case that in regard to mere men one will allow that they have of themselves invented what is useful for the purposes of life but will not grant to that god who formed the world that of himself he created the forms of those things which have been made and imparted to it its orderly arrangement but again how can these things below be images of those above since they are really contrary to them and can in no respect have sympathy with them for those things which are contrary to each other may indeed be destructive of those to which they are contrary but can by no means be their images as for instance water and fire or again light and darkness and other such things can never be the images of one another in like manner neither can those things which are corruptible and earthly and of a compound nature and transitory be the images of those which according to these men are spiritual unless these very things themselves be allowed to be compound limited in space and of a definite shape and thus no longer spiritual and diffused and spreading into vast extent and incomprehensible for they must of necessity be possessed of a definite figure and confined within certain limits that they may be true images and then it is decided that they are not spiritual if however these men maintain that they are spiritual and diffused and incomprehensible how can those things which are possessed of figure and confined within certain limits be the images of such as a destitute of figure and incomprehensible if again they affirm that neither according to configuration nor formation but according to number and the order of production those things above are the images of these below then in the first place these things below ought not to be spoken of as images and lightnesses of those eons that are above for how can the things which have neither the fashion nor shape of those above be their images and in the next place they would adapt both the numbers and productions of the eons above so as to render them identical with and similar to that belong to the creation below but now since they refer to only 30 eons and declare that the vast multitude of things which are embraced within the creation below are images of those that are but 30 we may justly condemn them as utterly destitute of sense Chapter 8 created things are not a shadow of the plurum if again they declare that these things below are a shadow of those above as some of them are bold enough to maintain so that in this respect they are images then it would be necessary for them to allow that those things which are above are possessed of bodies for those bodies which are above do cast a shadow but spiritual substances do not since they can in no degree darken others if however we also grant them this point though it is an impossibility that there is a shadow belonging to those essences which are spiritual and lucent into which they declare their mother descended yet since those things which are above are eternal and that shadow which is cast by them endures forever it follows that these things below are also not transitory but endure along with those which cast their shadow over them if on the other hand these things below are transitory it is a necessary consequence that those above also of which these are the shadow pass away while if they endure their shadow likewise endures if however they maintain that the shadow spoken of does not exist as being produced by the shade of those above but simply in this respect that the things below are far separated from those above they will then charge the light of their father with weakness and insufficiency as if it cannot extend so far as these things but fails to fill that which is empty and to dispel the shadow and that when no one is offering any hindrance for according to them the light of their father will be changed into darkness and buried in obscurity and will come to an end in those places which are characterised by emptiness since it cannot penetrate and fill all things let them no longer declare that their bithas is the fullness of all things if indeed he has neither filled nor illuminated that which is vacuum and shadow or on the other hand let them cease talking of vacuum and shadow if the light of their father does in truth fill all things beyond the primary father then that is the God who is overall there can neither be any plerama into which they declare the themesis of that eon who suffered passion descended so that the plerama itself or the primary God should not be limited and circumscribed by that which is beyond and should in fact be contained by it nor can vacuum and shadow have any existence since the father exists beforehand so that his light cannot fail and find end in a vacuum it is moreover irrational and impious to conceive of a place in which he who is according to them propator and pro-arch and father of all and of this plerama ceases and has an end nor again is it allowable for the reasons already stated to allege that some other being formed so vast a creation in the bosom of the father either with or without his consent for it is equally impious and infatuated to affirm that so great a creation was formed by angels or by some particular production ignorant of the true God in that territory which is his own nor is it possible that those things which are earthly and material could have been formed within their plerama since that is holy spiritual and further it is not even possible that those things which belong to a multi-form creation and have been formed with mutually opposite qualities could have been created after the image of the things above since these, i.e. the eons are said to be few and of a like formation and homo-genius their talk too about the shadow of Kenoma that is of a vacuum has in all points turned out false their figment then in what way so ever viewed has been proved groundless and their doctrines untenable empty too are those who listen to them and are verily descending into the abyss of perdition end of book 2 chapter 6 through 8 chapters 9 through 12 this is a LibriVox recording all LibriVox recordings are in the public domain for more information or to volunteer please visit LibriVox.org recording by Marion Martin Irenaeus against heresies book 2 translated by Alexander Roberts and William H. Rombo chapter 9 there is but one creator of the world god the father this is the constant belief of the church that god is the creator of the world is accepted even by those very persons who in many ways speak against him and yet acknowledge him styling him the creator and an angel not to mention that all the scriptures call out to the same effect and the lord teaches us of this father who is in heaven and so in the sequel of this work for the present however that proof which is derived from those who alleged doctrines opposite to ours is of itself sufficient all men in fact consenting to this truth the ancients on their part preserving with special care from the tradition of the first form man this persuasion while they celebrate the praises of one god the maker of heaven and earth others again after them being reminded of this fact by the prophets of god while the very heathen learned it from creation itself for even creation reveals him who formed it and the very work made suggests him who made it and the world manifests him who ordered it the universal church moreover through the whole world has received this tradition from the apostles this god then being acknowledged as I have said and receiving testimony from all the fact of his existence that father whom they conjuring to existence is beyond doubt untenable and has no witnesses to his existence Simon magus was the first who said that he himself was god overall and that the world was formed by his angels then those who succeeded him as I have shown in the first book by their several opinions still further depraved his teaching through their empires and their religious doctrines against the creator these heretics now referred to being the disciples of those mentioned render such as ascent to them worse than the heathen for the former serve the creature rather than the creator and those which are not gods not withstanding that they ascribe the first place in deity to that god who was the maker of this universe but the latter maintain that he ie the creator of this world is the fruit of a defect and describe him as being of an animal nature and as not knowing that power which is above him while he also exclaims I am god and besides me there is no other god affirming that he lies they are themselves liars attributing all sorts of wickedness to him and conceiving of one who is not above this being as really having an existence they are thus convicted by their own views of blasphemy against that god who really exists while they conjuring to existence a god who has no existence to their own condemnation and thus those who declare themselves perfect and as being possessed of the knowledge of all things are found to be worse than the heathen and to entertain more blasphemous opinions even against their own creator chapter 10 perverse interpretations of scripture by the heretics god created all things out of nothing and not from pre-existent matter it is therefore in the highest degree irrational that we should take no account of him who is truly god and who receives testimony from all while we inquire whether there is above him that other being who really has no existence and has never been proclaimed by anyone for that nothing has been clearly spoken regarding him they themselves furnish testimony for since they with wretched success transferred to that being who has been conceived of by them those parables of scripture which whatever the form in which they have been spoken are sought after for this purpose it is manifest that they now generate another god who was never previously sought after for by the fact that they thus endeavour to explain ambiguous passages of scripture ambiguous however not as if referring to another god but as regards the dispensations of the true god they have constructed another god weaving as I said before ropes of sand and affixing a more important to a less important question for no question can be solved by means of another which itself awaits solution nor in the opinion of those possessed of sense can an ambiguity be explained by means of another ambiguity or enigmas by means of another greater enigma but things of such character receive their solution from those which are manifest and consistent and clear but these heretics whilst driving to explain passages of scripture and parables bring forward another more important and indeed impious question to this effect whether there be really another god above that god who was the creator of the world they are not in the way of solving the questions which they propose for how could they find means of doing so but they append an important question to one of less consequence and thus insert in their speculations a difficulty incapable of solution for in order that they may know knowledge itself yet not learning this fact that the Lord when 30 years old came to the baptism of truth they do impressly despise that god who was the creator and who sent him for the salvation of men and that they may be deemed capable of informing us whence is the substance of matter while they believe not that god according to his pleasure in the exercise of his own will and power formed all things so that those things which now are should have an existence out of what did not previously exist they have collected a multitude of varying discourses they thus truly reveal their infidelity for they do not believe in that which really exists and they have fallen away into the belief of that which has in fact no existence for when they tell us that all moist substance proceeded from the tears of akamoth all lucid substance from her smile all solid substance from her sadness all mobile substance from her terror and that thus they have sublime knowledge on account of which they are superior to others how can these things fail to be regarded as worthy of contempt and truly ridiculous they do not believe that god being powerful and rich in all resources created matter itself in as much as they know not how much a spiritual and divine essence can accomplish but they do believe that their mother whom they style a female from a female produced from her passions aforesaid the so vast material substance of creation they inquire too whence the substance of creation was supplied to the creator but they do not inquire whence was supplied to their mother and their family and thymuses an impulse of the eon that went astray so great an amount of tears or perspiration or sadness or that which produced the remainder of matter for to attribute the substance of created things to the power and will of hubu is god of all is worthy both of credit and acceptance it is also agreeable to reason and there may be well said regarding such a belief which are impossible with men are possible with god while men indeed cannot make anything out of nothing but only out of matter already existing yet god is in this point proeminently superior to men that he himself called into being the substance of his creation when previously it had no existence but the assertion that matter was produced from the thymuses of an eon going astray and that the eon referred to was far separated from her anthymuses and that again her passion and feeling apart from herself became matter is incredible infatuated impossible and untenable chapter 11 the heretics from their disbelief of the truth have fallen into an abyss of error reasons for investigating their systems they do not believe that he who is god above all is formed by his word in his own territory as he himself pleased the various and diversified works of creation which exist in as much as he is the former of all things like a wise architect and the most powerful monarch but they believe that angels or some power separate from god and who was ignorant of him formed this universe by this course therefore not yielding credit to the truth but wallowing in falsehood they have lost the bread of true life and have fallen into acuity and an abyss of shadow they are like the dog of eesop which dropped the bread and made an attempt at ceasing its shadow thus losing the real food it is easy to prove from the very words of the lord that he acknowledges one father and creator of the world and fashioner of man who was proclaimed by the law and the prophets while he knows no other and that this one is really god over all and that he teaches that that adoption of sons pertaining to the father which is eternal life takes place through himself conferring it as he does on all the righteous but since these men delight in attacking us and in their true character of cavillers assail us with points which really tell not at all against us but forward in opposition to us a multitude of parables and captures questions I have thought it well on the other side first of all to put to them the following inquiries concerning their own doctrines to exhibit their improbability and to put an end to their audacity after this has been done I intend to bring forward the discourses of the lord so that they may not only be rendered destitute of the means of attacking us but that since they will be enabled reasonably to reply to those questions which are put they may see that their plan of argument is destroyed so that either returning to the truth and humbling themselves and ceasing from their multifarious fantasies they may propitiate god for those blasphemies they have uttered against him and obtain salvation or that if they still persevere in that system of vanglory which has taken possession of their minds they may at least find it necessary to change their kind of argument against us Chapter 12 the triacontad of the heretics errs both by defect and excess Sophia could never have produced anything apart from her consort Logos and Sigi could not have been contemporaries we may remark in the first place regarding their triacontad that the whole of it marvelously falls to ruin on both sides that is both as respects defect and excess they say that to indicate it the lord came to be baptised at the age of 30 years but this assertion really amounts to a manifest subversion of their entire argument as to defect this happens as follows first of all because they reckon the propator among the other eons for the father of all ought not to be counted with other productions he who was not produced with that which was produced he who was unbegotten with that which was born he whom no one comprehends with that which is comprehended by him and who is on this account himself incomprehensible and he who is without figure with that which has a definite shape for in as much as he is superior to the rest he ought not to be numbered with them and that so that he who is impassable and not in error should be reckoned with an eon subject to passion and actually in error for I have shown in the book which immediately precedes this that beginning with Bithas they reckon up the triacontad to Sophia whom they describe as the airing eon and I have also there set forth the names of their eons but if he be not reckoned there are no longer on their own showing 30 productions of eons but these then become only 29 next with respect to the first production Anoya whom they also term Sigi from whom again they describe Nus and Alothea as having been sent forth they are in both particulars for it is impossible that the thought Anoya of anyone or his silence Sigi should be understood apart from himself and that being sent forth beyond him it should possess a special figure of its own but if they assert that the Anoya was not sent forth beyond him but continued one with the propator why then do they reckon her with the other eons with those who were not one with the father and are on this account ignorant of his greatness if however she was so united let us take this also into consideration there is then an absolute necessity that from this united and inseparable conjunction which constitutes but one being there should proceed an unseparated and united production so that it should not be dissimilar to him who sent it forth but if this be so then Justice Bythus and Sigi so also Nus and Alothea will form one and the same being ever-cleaving mutually together and in as much as the one cannot be conceived of without the other Justice Water cannot be conceived of without the thought of moisture or fire without the thought of heat or a stone without the thought of hardness for these things are mutually bound together and the one cannot be separated from the other but always co-exists with it so it behoves Bythus to be united in the same way with Anoya and Nus with Alothea Logos and Zoe again as being said forth by those that are thus united or themselves to be united and to constitute only one being but according to such a process of reasoning Homo and Ecclesia too and indeed all the remaining conjunctions of the eons produced or to be united and always to co-exist the one with the other for there is a necessity in their opinion that a female eon should exist side by side with the male one in as much as she is so to speak the forth-putting of his affection these things being so and such opinions being proclaimed by them they again venture without a blush to teach that the younger eon of the duo Decad whom they also style Sophia apart from union with her consort whom they call the letters endure passion and separately without any assistance from him gave birth to a production which they name a female from a female they thus rush into such utter frenzy as to form two most clearly opposite opinions respecting the same point for if Bythus is ever one with Sigi, Nus with Alothea Logos with Zoe and so on as respects the rest how could Sophia without union with her consort either suffer or generate anything and if again she did really suffer passion apart from him it necessarily follows that the other conjunctions also admit of disjunction and separation among themselves a thing which I have already shown to be impossible it is also impossible therefore that Sophia suffered passion apart from the letters and thus again their whole system of argument is overthrown for they have yet again derived the whole of remaining material substance like the composition of a tragedy from that passion which they affirm she experienced apart from union with her consort if however they impudently maintain in order to preserve from ruin their vain imaginations that the rest of the conjunctions also were disjoined and separated from one another on account of this latest conjunction then I reply that in the first place they rest upon a thing which is impossible for how can they separate the propator from his annoyer or Nus from Alothea or Logos from Zoe and so on with the rest and how can they themselves maintain that they tend again to preserve unity and are in fact all at one if indeed these very conjunctions which are within the plerama do not preserve unity but are separate from one another and that to such a degree that they both endure passion and perform the work of generation without union one with another just as hence do apart from intercourse with Cox then again their first and first because an ob-doad follows they must admit that Bithes and Ciggy Nus and Alothea Logos and Zoe and Thropos and Ecclesia do individually dwell in the same plerama but it is impossible that Ciggy silence can exist in the presence of Logos speech or again that Logos can manifest himself in the presence of Ciggy for these are mutually destructive even as light and darkness can by no possibility exist in the same place for if light prevails there cannot be darkness and if darkness there cannot be light since where light appears darkness is put to flight in light manner where Ciggy is there cannot be Logos and where Logos is there cannot be Ciggy but if they say that Logos simply exists within Ciggy also will exist within and will not the less be destroyed by the Logos within but that he really is not merely conceived of in the mind the very order of the production of their eons shows let them not then declare that the first and principal log-doad consists of Logos and Ciggy but let them as a matter of necessity exclude either Ciggy or Logos and then their first and principal log-doad is at an end for if they describe the conjunctions of the eons as united then their whole argument fails to pieces since if they were united how could Sophia have generated a defect without union with her consort if on the other hand they maintain that as in production each of the eons possesses his own peculiar substance Ciggy and Logos manifest themselves in the same place so far then with respect to defect but again their trial contact is overthrown as to excess by the following considerations they represent horrors whom they call by a variety of names which I have mentioned in the preceding book as having been produced by monogenius just like the other eons some of them maintain that this was produced by monogenius while others affirm that he was sent forth by the propator himself in his own image they affirm further that a production was formed by monogenius Christ and the Holy Spirit and they do not reckon these in the number of the plerama nor the saviour either whom they also declare to be totem all things now it is evident even to a blind man that not merely 30 productions as they maintain were sent forth but 4 more along with these 30 for they reckon the propator himself in the plerama and those too who in succession were produced by one another why is it then that those other beings are not reckoned as existing with these in the same plerama since they were produced in the same manner for what just reason can they assign for not reckoning along with the other eons either Christ whom they describe as having according to the father's will being produced by monogenius or the Holy Spirit or horrors whom they also call saute saviour and not even the saviour himself who came to impart assistance and form to their mother whether is this as if these latter were weaker than the former and therefore unworthy of the name of eons being numbered among them as if they were superior and more excellent but how could they be weaker since they were produced for the establishment and rectification of the others and then again they cannot possibly be superior to the first and principal tetrad by which they were also produced for it too is reckoned in the number above mentioned these latter beings then ought also to have been numbered in the plerama of the eons or that should be deprived of the honour of those eons which bear this appellation the tetrad since therefore their trial content is thus brought to naught as I have shown both with respect to defect and excess for in dealing with such a number either excess or defect to any extent will render the number untenable and how much more so great variations it follows that what they maintain respecting their oghdoad and duodicad is a mere fable which cannot stand their whole system moreover falls to the ground when their very foundation is destroyed and dissolved into bithas that is into what has no existence let them then henceforth seek to set forth some other reasons why the Lord came to be baptised at the age of thirty years and explained in some other way the duodicad of the apostles and the fact stated regarding her who suffered from an issue of blood and all the other points respecting which they so madly labour in vain End of book 2 chapters 9 through 12 This is a LibriVox recording All LibriVox recordings are in the public domain For more information or to volunteer please visit LibriVox.org Recording by Bill Mosley, Frolsburg, Texas Irenaeus Against Teresies Book 2 Translated by Alexander Roberts and William H. Rambeau Chapter 13 The first order of production maintained by the heretics is altogether indefensible 1 I now proceed to show as follows that the first order of production as conceived of by them must be rejected for they maintain that Naus and Aletheia were produced from Bithys and his Ennoea which is proved to be a contradiction for Naus is that which is itself chief and highest and as it were the principle and source of all understanding Ennoea again which arises from him is any sort of emotion produced by any subject It cannot be therefore that Naus was produced by Bithys and Ennoea It would be more like the truth for them to maintain that Ennoea was produced as the daughter of the propator and this Naus for Ennoea is not the daughter of Naus as they assert but Naus becomes the father of Ennoea for how can Naus have been produced by the propator when he holds the chief and primary place of that hidden and invisible affection which is within him By this affection sense is produced and Ennoea and Enthymesis and other things which are simply synonyms for Naus himself As I have said already they are merely certain definite exercises and thought of that very power concerning some particular subject We understand the several terms according to their length and breadth of meaning not according to any fundamental change of signification and the various exercises of thought are limited by the same sphere of knowledge and are expressed together by the same term the very same sense remaining within and creating and administering and freely governing by its own power and as it pleases the things which have been previously mentioned too where the first exercise of that power respecting anything is styled Ennoea but when it continues and gathers strength and takes possession of the whole soul it is called Enthymesis This Enthymesis again when it exercises itself in point and has as it were been proved is named Sensation and this sensation when it is much developed becomes Council The increase again and greatly developed exercise of this Council becomes the examination of thought judgment and this remaining in the mind is most properly termed Logos Reason from which the spoken Logos word proceeds but all the exercises of thought which have been mentioned are fundamentally one and the same receiving their origin from Naus and obtaining different appellation according to their increase just as the human body which is at one time young old has received different appellations according to its increase and continuance but not according to any change of substance or on account of any real loss of body so it is with those mental exercises for when one mentally contemplates anything he also thinks of it and when he thinks of it he has also knowledge regarding it he also considers it and when he considers it he also mentally handles it and when he mentally handles it he also speaks of it but as I have already said it is Naus who governs all these mental processes while he is himself invisible and under speech of himself by means of those processes which have been mentioned as it were by praise proceeding from him but he himself is not sent forth by any other three these things may properly be said to hold good in men since they are compound by nature and consist of a body and a soul but those who affirm that Inoea was sent forth from God and Naus from Inoea and then in succession Naus from these are in the first place to be blamed as having improperly used these productions and in the next place as describing the affections and passions and mental tendencies of men while they thus prove themselves ignorant of God by their manner of speaking they ascribe those things which apply to men to the Father of all whom they also declare to be unknown to all and they deny that he himself made the world to guard against attributing want of power to him while at the same time they endow him with human affections and passions but if they had known the scriptures and been taught by the truth they would have known beyond doubt that God is not as men are and that his thoughts are not like the thoughts of men for the Father of all is at a vast distance from those affections and passions which operate among men he is a simple uncompounded being without diverse members and altogether like and equal to himself since he is holy understanding and holy spirit and holy thought and holy intelligence and holy reason and holy hearing and holy seeing and holy light and the whole source of all that is good even as the religious and pious are want to speak concerning God for he is however above all these properties and therefore indescribable for he may well and properly be called an understanding which comprehends all things but he is not on that account like the understanding of men and he may most properly be termed light but he is nothing like that light with which we are acquainted and so in all other particulars the Father of all is in no degree similar to human weakness he is spoken of in those terms according to the love we bear him but in point of greatness our thoughts regarding him transcend these expressions if then even in the case of human beings understanding itself does not arise from emission nor is that intelligence which produces other things separated from the living man and its motions and affections come into manifestation much more will the mind of God who is all understanding never by any means be separated from himself nor can anything in this case be produced as if by a different being five for if he produced intelligence then he who did thus produce intelligence must be understood in accordance with their views as a compound and corporeal being so that God who sent forth the intelligence referred to is separate from it and the intelligence which was sent forth separate from him but if they affirm that intelligence was sent forth from intelligence they then cut us under the intelligence of God and divide it into parts and wither has it gone whence was it sent forth for whatever is sent forth from any place passes of necessity into some other but what existence was there more ancient than the intelligence of God into which they maintain it was sent forth and what a vast region that must have been which was capable of receiving and containing the intelligence of God if however they affirm that this emission to place just as a ray proceeds from the sun then as the subjacent air which receives the ray must have had an existence prior to it so by such reasoning they will indicate that there was something in existence into which the intelligence of God was sent forth capable of containing it and more ancient than itself following upon this we must hold that as we see the sun which is less than all things sending forth rays from himself to a great distance so likewise we say that the propator sent forth a ray beyond and to a great distance from himself but what can be conceived of beyond or at a distance from God into which he sent forth this ray 6 if again they affirm that that intelligence was not sent forth beyond the father but within the father himself then in the first place it becomes superfluous to say that it was sent forth at all for how could it have been sent forth if it continued within the father for an emission is the manifestation of that which is emitted beyond him who emits it in the next place this intelligence being sent forth both that Lagos who springs from him can still be within the father as will also be the future emissions proceeding from Lagos these then cannot in such a case be ignorant of the father since they are within him nor being all equally surrounded by the father can anyone know him less than another according to the descending order of their emission all of them must also in an equal measure continue impassable since they exist in the bosom of their father and none of them can ever sink into a state of degeneracy or degradation for with the father there is no degeneracy unless for chance as in a great circle a smaller is contained and within this again a smaller or unless they affirm of the father that after the manner of a sphere or a square he contains within himself on all sides the likeness of a sphere or the production of the rest of the eons in the form of a square each one of these being surrounded by that one who is above him being in turn that one who is after him in smallness and that on this account the smallest and the last of all having its place in the center and thus being far separated from the father was really ignorant of the propator but if they maintain any such hypothesis they must shut up their business within a definite form and space while he both surrounds others surrounded by them for they must of necessity acknowledge that there is something outside of him which surrounds him and nonetheless will the top concerning those that contain and those that are contained flow on into infinitude and all the eons will most clearly appear to be bodies enclosed by one another 7 further they must also confess either that he is mere vacuity or that the entire universe is within him and in that case all will in like degree partake of the father just as if one forms circles in water or round or square figures all these will equally partake of water just as those again which are framed in the air must necessarily partake of air and those which are formed in light of light so must those also who are within him all equally partake of the father ignorance having no place among them where then is this partaking of the father who fills all things if indeed he has filled all things there will be no ignorance among them on this ground in their work of supposed degeneracy is brought to nothing and the production of matter with the formation of the rest of the world which things they maintain to have derived their substance from passion and ignorance if on the other hand they acknowledge that he is vacuity then they fall into the greatest blasphemy they deny his spiritual nature for how can he be a spiritual being who cannot fill even those things which are within him hate now these remarks which have been made concerning the emission of intelligence intelligence are in like manner applicable in opposition to those who belong to the school of facilities as well as in opposition to the rest of the Gnostics from whom these also the Valentinians have adopted the ideas about emissions and were refuted in the first book but I have now finally shown that the first production of Naus that is of the intelligence they speak of is an untenable and impossible opinion and let us see how the matter stands with respect to the rest of the eons for they maintain that Lagos and Zoe were sent forth by him i.e. Naus as fashioners of this pleroma while they conceive of an emission of Lagos that is the word after the analogy of human feelings and actually form conjectures respecting God as if they had discovered something wonderful in their assertion that Lagos was produced by Naus all indeed have a clear perception that this may be logically affirmed with respect to men but in him who is God over all since he is all Naus and all Lagos as I have said before and has in himself nothing more ancient or late than another and nothing at variance with another but continues all together equal and similar and homogenous there is no longer ground or reduction in the order which has been mentioned just as he does not air who declares that God is all vision and all hearing form or in what manner he sees in that also he hears and in what manner he hears in that also he sees so also he who affirms all intelligence and all word and that in whatever respect he is intelligence in that also he is word and that this Naus is is Lagos will still indeed have only an inadequate conception of the father of all but will entertain far more becoming thoughts regarding him than do those who transfer the direction of the word to which men give utterance to the eternal word of God assigning a beginning and course of production to him even as they do to their own word and in what respect will the word of God yea rather God himself since he is the word differ from the word of men of the same order and process of generation nine they have fallen into error to respecting Zoe by maintaining that she was produced in the sixth place when it behooved her to take precedence of all the rest since God is life and in corruption and truth and these and such like attributes have not been produced according to a gradual scale of descent but they are names of those perfections which always exist in God so far as it is possible and proper for men to hear and speak of God for with the name of God the following words will harmonize intelligence life in corruption truth wisdom goodness and such like and neither can anyone maintain that intelligence is more ancient than life for intelligence itself is life nor that life is later than intelligence so that he who is the intellect should at one time have been destitute of life but if they affirm that life was indeed previously in the father but was produced in the sixth place in order that the word might live surely it ought long before according to such reasoning to have been sent forth in the fourth place that knows might have life and still further even before him it should have been with Bithas that their Bithas might live for to reckon sage indeed along with their propater and to assign her to him as his consort while they do not join Zoe to the number is not this to surpass all other madness ten as to the second production which proceeds from these eons who have been mentioned that mainly of Homo and Ecclesia their very fathers falsely styled Gnostics strive among themselves each one seeking to make good his own opinions and thus convicting themselves of being wicked thieves they maintain that it is more suitable for the story of production as being in fact truth like that the word was produced by man not man by the word that man existed prior to the word and that this is really he who is God overall and thus it is as I have previously remarked that heaping together with a kind of plausibility that utilizes and formation of intentions and utterances of words they have lied with no plausibility at all against God for while they ascribe the things which happen to men and whatsoever they recognize themselves as experiencing to the divine reason they seem to those who are ignorant of God to make statements suitable enough for these human passions drawing away their intelligence while they describe the origin and production of the word of God in the fifth place they assert that thus they teach wonderful mysteries unspeakable and sublime known to no one but themselves it was they affirm concerning these that the Lord said seek and ye shall find and inquire how Naus and Eletia proceeded from Bethus and Sage whether Logos and Zoë again derive their origin from these and then whether Anthropos and Ecclesia proceed from Logos and Zoë end of book 2 chapter 13 recording by Bill Mosley Frillsburg, Texas chapters 14 through 15 of Irenaeus Against Heresies book 2 this is a LibriVox recording all LibriVox recordings are in the public domain for more information or to volunteer please visit LibriVox.org Irenaeus Against Heresies book 2 translated by Alexander Roberts and William H. Rambo chapter 14 Valentinus and his followers derived the principles of their system from the heathen the names only are changed one much like the truth and more pleasing is the account to which Antiphanes one of the ancient comic poets gives in his theogony as to the origin of all things for he speaks of chaos as being produced from night and silence relates that then love sprang from chaos and night from this again light and that from this in his opinion were derived all the rest of the first generation of the gods after these he next introduces a second generation of gods and the creation of the world then he narrates the formation of mankind by the second order of the gods these men that is the heretics adopting this fable as their own have arranged their opinions around it as if by a sort of natural process changing only the names of the things referred to and setting forth the very same beginning of the generation of all things and their production in place of night and silence they substitute Bithos and Sigi instead of chaos they put Naus and for love by whom says the comic poet all other things were set in order they have brought forward the word while for the primary and greatest gods they have formed the ions and in place of the secondary gods they tell us of that creation by their mother which is outside of the Pleroma calling it the second Ogdoad they proclaim to us like the writer referred to that from this Ogdoad came the creation of the world and the formation of man maintaining that they alone are acquainted with these ineffable and unknown mysteries those things which are everywhere acted in the theaters by comedians with the clearest voices they transfer to their own system teaching them undoubtedly through means of the same arguments and merely changing the names two and not only are they convicted of bringing forward as if their own original ideas those things which are to be found among the comic poets but they also bring together the things which have been said by all those who are ignorant of god and who are termed philosophers and sewing together as it were a motley garment out of a heap of miserable rags they have by their subtle manner of expression furnished themselves with a cloak which is really not their own they do it is true introduce a new kind of doctrine in as much as by a new sort of art it has been substituted for the old yet it is in reality both old and useless since these very opinions have been sewed together out of ancient dogmas redolent of ignorance and irreligion for instance Thales of Miletus affirmed that water was the generative and initial principle of all things now it is just the same thing whether we say water or bitus the poet Homer again held the opinion that Oceanus along with mother Thetis was the origin of the gods this idea these men have transferred to bitus and Sigi Anaximander laid it down that infinitude is the first principle of all things having seminally in itself the generation of them all and from this he declares the immense worlds which exist were formed this too they have dressed up anew and referred to bitus Anaxagoras again who has also been surnamed Atheist gave it as his opinion that animals were formed from seeds falling down from heaven upon earth this thought too these men have transferred to the seed of their mother which they maintain to be themselves thus acknowledging at once in the judgment of such as are possessed of sense that they themselves are the offspring of the irreligious Anaxagoras three again adopting the ideas of shade and vacuity from democratus and epicurus they have fitted these to their own views following upon those teachers who had already talked a great deal about a vacuum and atoms the one of which they called that which is and the other that which is not in like manner these men call those things which are within the Pleroma real existences just as those philosophers did the atoms while they maintain that those which are without the Pleroma have no true existence even as those did respecting the vacuum they have thus banished themselves in this world since they are here outside Pleroma into a place which has no existence again when they maintain that these things below are images of those which have a true existence above they again most manifestly rehearse the doctrine of democratus and Plato for democratus was the first who maintained that numerous and diverse figures were stamped as it were from the forms of things above and descended from universal space into this world but Plato for his part speaks of matter and exemplar and God these men following those distinctions have styled what he calls ideas and exemplar the images of those things which are above while through a mere change of name they boast themselves as being discoverers and contrivers of this kind of imaginary fiction for this opinion too that they hold the creator formed the world out of previously existing matter both anaxagoras empedicles and Plato expressed before them as for sooth we learn they also do under the inspiration of their mother then again as to the opinion everything of necessity passes away to those things out of which they maintain it was also formed and that God is the slave of this necessity so that he cannot impart immortality to what is mortal or bestow in corruption on what is corruptible but everyone passes into a substance similar in nature to itself both those who are named Stoics from the portico and indeed all that are ignorant of God poets and historians alike make the same affirmation those heretics who hold the same system of infidelity have ascribed their own proper region to spiritual beings that namely which is within the pluroma but to animal beings the intermediate space while to corporeal they assign that which is material and they assert that God himself can do no otherwise but that everyone of the different kinds of substance mentioned passes away to those things which are of the same nature with itself five moreover as to their same that the savior was formed out of all the ions by every one of them depositing so to speak in him his own special flower they bring forward nothing new that may not be found in the Pandora of Hessoid for what he says respecting her these men insinuate concerning the savior bringing him before us as Pandoras as if each of the ions had bestowed on him what he possessed in the greatest perfection again their opinion as to the indifference of eating of meats and other actions and as to their thinking that from the nobility of their nature they can in no degree at all contract pollution whatever they either eat or perform they have derived it from the cynics since they do in fact belong to the same society as do these philosophers they also strive to transfer to the treatment of matters of faith that hair splitting and subtle mode of handling questions which is in fact a copying of Aristotle 6 again as to the desire they exhibit to refer this whole universe to numbers they have learned it from the Pythagoreans for these were the first who set forth numbers as the initial principle of all things and described that initial principle of theirs as being both equal and unequal out of which two properties they conceived that both things sensible and immaterial derived their origin and they held that one set of first principles gave rise to the matter of things and another of their form they affirm that from these first principles all things have been made just as a statue is of its metal and its special form now the heretics have adopted this to the things which are outside of the Pleroma the Pythagoreans maintained that the principle of intellect is proportionate to the energy wherewith mind as a recipient of the comprehensible pursues its inquiries until worn out it is resolved at length in the indivisible and one they further affirm that hen that is one is the first principle of all things and the substance of all that has been formed from this again proceed the dyad, the tetrad, the pentad and the manifold generation of the others these things the heretics repeat word for word with a reference to their Pleroma and Bithos from the same source too they strive to bring into vogue those conjunctions which proceed from unity with the most boasts of such views as if they were his own and as if he were seen to have discovered something more novel than others while he simply sets forth the tetrad of Pythagoras as the originating principle and mother of all things seven but I will merely say in opposition to these men did all those who have been mentioned with whom you have been know or not know the truth if they knew it then the descent of the savior into this world was superfluous for why in that case did he descend? was it that he might bring that truth which was already known to the knowledge of those who knew it? if on the other hand these men did not know it then how is it that while you express yourselves in the same terms to those who knew not the truth ye boast that yourselves alone possess that knowledge which is above all things although they who are ignorant of God likewise possess it thus then by a complete perversion of language they style ignorance of the truth knowledge and Paul well says of them that they make use of novelties of words of false knowledge for that knowledge of theirs is truly found to be false if however taking an impudent course with respect to these points they declare that men indeed did not know the truth but that their mother the seed of the father proclaimed the mysteries of truth through such men even as also through the prophets while the demiurge was ignorant of the proceeding then I answer in the first place that the things which were predicted were not of such a nature as to be intelligible to no one for the men themselves knew what they were saying as did also their disciples and those again who succeeded these and in the next place if either the mother or her seed knew and proclaimed those things which were of the truth that the father is truth then on their theory the savior lied when he said no one knoweth the father but the son unless indeed they maintained that their seed or mother is no one 8 thus far then by means of ascribing to their ions human feelings and by the fact that they largely coincide in their language with many of those who are ignorant of God they have been seen plausibly drawing a certain number away from the truth they led them on by the use of those expressions with which they have been familiar to that sort of discourse which treats of all things setting forth the production of the word of God and of Zoe and of and bringing into the world as it were the successive emanations of the deity the views again which they propound without either plausibility or parade are simply lies from beginning to end just as those who in order to lure and capture any kind of animals place their accustomed food before them gradually drawing them on by means of the familiar ailment until at length they seize it but when they have taken them captive they subject them to the bitterest of bondage and drag them along with violence whether so ever they please so also do these men gradually and gently persuading others by means of their plausible speeches to accept of the emission which has been mentioned then bring forward things which are not consistent and forms of the remaining emissions which are not such as might been expected they declare for instance that ten ions were sent forth by Logos and Zoe while from Anthropos and Ecclesia their preceded twelve although they have neither proof nor testimony nor probability nor anything whatever of such a nature to support these assertions and with equal folly and audacity do they wish it to be believed that from Logos and Zoe being ions were sent forth by Bithos and Mixis Agarratos and Henosis Autophias and Hedoni Acenetos and Sincrasis Monogenes and Massaria moreover as they affirm there were sent forth in a similar way from Anthropos and Ecclesia being ions Paracletus and Pistis Patricos and Elpis Metricos and Agape Aenos and Cynesis Ecclesiasticus and Massariotis Thelitos and Sophia Nine The passions and error of this Sophia and how she ran the risk of perishing through her investigation of the nature of the father as they relate and what took place outside of the Alma and from what sort of a defect they teach that the maker of the world was produced I have set forth in the preceding book describing in it with all diligence the opinions of these heretics I have also detailed their views respecting Christ whom they describe as having been produced subsequently to all these and also regarding Sotterre who, according to them, brought his being from those ions who were formed within the Pleroma but I have of necessity mentioned their names at present that from these the absurdity of their falsehood may be made manifest and also the confused nature of the nomenclature they have devised for they themselves detract from the dignity of their ions by a multitude of names of this sort they give out names plausible to the heathen as being similar to those who are called their twelve gods and even these they will have to be images of their twelve ions but the images so called can produce names of their own much more seemingly and more powerfully through their etymology to indicate divinity than are those of their fancied prototypes Chapter 15 All account can be given of these productions 1. But let us return to the fore mentioned question as to the production of the ions and in the first place let them tell us the reason of the production of the ions being of such a kind that they do not come in contact with any of those things which belong to creation for they maintain that those things above were not made on account of creation but creation on account of them and that the former are not images of the latter but the latter of the former as therefore they render a reason for the images by saying that the month has 30 days on account of the 30 ions and the day 12 hours and the year 12 months on account of the 12 ions which are within the Pleroma other such nonsense of the same kind let them now tell us also the reason for that production of the ions why it was of such a nature for what reason the first and first begotten ogdoad was sent forth and not a pentad or a triad or a septanad or any one of those which are defined by a different number Moreover how did it come to pass that Anthropos and Zoe were sent forth 10 ions and neither more nor less while again from Anthropos and Ecclesia proceeded 12 although these might have been either more or less numerous two and then again with reference to the entire Pleroma what reason is there that it should be divided into these three an ogdoad a dekad and not into some other number different from these Moreover with respect to the division itself why has it been made into three parts and not four or five or six or into some other number among those which have no connection with such numbers as belong to creation for they describe those ions above as being more ancient than these created things below and it behooves them to possess their principle of being in themselves one which existed before creation and not after the pattern of creation all exactly agreeing as to the point three the creation which we give of creation is one harmonious with that regular order of things prevailing in the world for this scheme of ours is adapted to the things which have actually been made but it is a matter of necessity that they being unable to assign any reason belonging to these things themselves with regard to those beings that existed before creation and were perfected by themselves should fall into the greatest perplexity for as to the points on which they interrogate us as knowing nothing of creation they themselves when questioned in turn respecting the Pleroma either make mention of mere human feelings or have recourse to that sort of speech which bears only upon that harmony observable in creation improperly giving us replies concerning things which are secondary and not concerning those which as they maintain are primary for we do not question them concerning that harmony which belongs to creation nor concerning human feelings but because they must acknowledge as to their octiform decaform and duo decaform Pleroma that is the image of which they declare creation to be that their father formed it of that figure vainly and thoughtlessly and must ascribe to him deformity if he made anything without a reason or again if they declare the Pleroma was so produced in accordance with the foresight of the father for the sake of creation as if he had thus symmetrically arranged its very essence then it follows that the Pleroma can no longer be regarded as having been formed on its own account but for the sake of that creation which was to be its image as possessing its likeness just as the clay model is not molded for its own sake but for the sake of the statue in brass or gold or silver about to be formed then creation will have greater honor than the Pleroma if for its sake those things above were produced end of book 2 chapters 14 through 15