 Hi there Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. Wherever you are joining us from my name is Abhijit podcast And we are going live and various places which is LinkedIn Twitter Facebook YouTube all of it So if you want to join in feel free to ask your questions and to begin with just tell me If you are joining us from a particular city Tell me what your questions are because today's guest is going to be somebody who has had a very interesting career And there is a small story about where we met And why I think that it would be great to have a chat with my guest today, Rajeev Bhalla so just by way of an introduction Rajeev Bhalla is the Former MD of Barco, which is a company which you must have used and seen their Projectors and they actually beyond that they are into visualization in a very big way. So this is what You know, actually I got interested in When I heard a fabulous story that he shared with me And I'm going to of course not break the surprise, but I actually asked Rajeev Where you know, he got so many of his ideas from and Rajeev Bhalla has since Leaving his role as the MD former MD of Barco, he has actually led it up Being a mentor to several startups. He's advising individuals. He's a keynote speaker And of course, I will tell you that I truly enjoy You know reading what he writes on, you know, all the different You know, his LinkedIn posts are pretty interesting and I have always thought that that's a that's a great way in which You know, Rajeev has really Used his talent and skills for the benefit of a number of other people So today I'm going to actually talk to you and Nikita Saifullah, thank you so much for being here and sharing your views One question that you may have noticed that comes up very often, you know, when I was doing my LinkedIn audio live yesterday and on some of the other occasions when I've done it One of the things that comes up is that how the career path as we define it has really changed so much You know, so our career path has You know changed because it's no longer something which is very predictable. Our career path is something which is really going into a number of different areas. If you see It used to be this kind of a career path. You know, and it was really that we had a three stage career path. It was learn earn and retire. You know, so you could Learn you get your degree And then you start working and pretty much you could change Employers if necessary, but by and large you utilize the same skill that you were taught in college and then You know, once you reach a certain age now funnily that also changes from country to country Year to year, you know, because in some professions you retire in your 40s In some professions you retire mandatory in your 50s In some professions you retire in 60s And then there are professions like being a politician where there is no retirement age So that's for a different time and space. We should actually discuss whether a mandatory retirement is something that You know, you should be looking at anyway and Here, you know I'm sorry, there has been some technical issue and the My guest is not able to join but nevertheless, I'm happy to answer any of your questions and Take that here. Thank you. Kuldeep Sehfala and Nikita for joining and sharing your Comment here. If you have a question about your career path, etc. This is the place This is a new podcast. So bear with me as we go through some of these initial teething glitches. We are really Going to be talking about a bunch of different things. We are going to be talking about careers in this particular place Looking at how it has changed and what strategies you should potentially use as you build your career choices So one of the one of the pieces that I wanted to bring for you today is that That career model of career 1.0, which is, you know You have a predefined career path and you state of that because you know, you leverage your Skills in the most powerful way and build your career path. That actually is something that Has really worked well for many places still does So if you see in my book, I talk about scientists who really do just that or you name some of our Bollywood's famous musicians. They really are People who've actually followed that really well. So you do have You do have people who can Do the same music composition for years together throughout their life You know, so that is another kind of an option So you have You know career 1.0 where you monetize the same skill Career 2.0 is where you actually pick up a skill by yourself in many cases People have done that using their childhood passion You know, one of the best examples of this I can think of is some would like Palash Sen the lead singer for the band Euphoria. He has A degree in medicine. He's actually, you know, a fairly You know, he's actually a fairly accomplished musician. He's also a fairly accomplished Doctor, he has a degree in medicine and You know, this is something that I find fascinating about Palash Is that he has managed to juggle both and is equally good in both Though I would argue that I've never had a chance to You know, find out how good is he as a doctor, but I suddenly know that he's really good as a musician So that's, you know, a kind of a career 2.0 model or for that matter I can think of Atul Khatri the stand-up comedian, you know, he's had a company where he worked in the area of You know, he worked Atul Khatri worked in an IT company that he owned his family owned actually he had his Brothers, you know together they ran this IT company He was running it doing well and then he decides to actually start Becoming a stand-up comedian. So he kind of you know, as he says In one of the conversations I heard him say that he is really Sort of operating in two different zones So he describes it as riding two horses at the same time, which is a really tricky way to operate But he really started to dabble in his love for stand-up comedy And you know decided that well, this is a good time that he's going to try it out So he started doing it on the odd occasion grew that You know, his audience started putting his videos online as he got a good response He started to shift away and start to devote more of his time and energy in the second Skill that he has which is stand-up comedy and has really made a career out of that, you know, so That's that's the career 2.0 model. So you have like a real steady Steady income stream and you start to generate another income stream From a skill which you have not got any formal training energies to begin with Very often these are, you know skills that you've pursued because you've had a hobby which got you to do this And those are some of the ways in which we've done that Um, the second the third area, uh, which is where my book is all about Is called career 3.0 Career 3.0 has actually been One of the models that has been triggered by three broad shifts The first is that uh, you know career 3.0 Is where you monetize three or more Different skills in three or more ecosystem A good way to think about it is if you look at, um, Dave that but like, you know, the mythologist He's of course well known as a mythologist Dave that is also actually a qualified doctor So I don't know what is it with these Doctors that they also actually want to do something completely different But they've that, um, you know, uh, does multiple things. He's a fabulous illustrator He writes really well And that's what he used to do earlier. You know, he started to write little short columns They started to write a book they started to illustrate and write together and he's got a such a distinctive You know drawing style. I'm a big fan of his drawings, of course Not to mention his uh, some of his writings are deeply insightful and he talks about, uh, you know Various things on mythology And he sort of done, uh, you know series on Netflix. He's got very popular radio shows in multiple ecosystems He is monetizing his different skills. So those are some of the ways in which, um, you know, you've got, uh You've got great examples of, uh, uh, you know This is what I think the world is going to come to for three reasons. Uh, I'm going to talk about that briefly and then, uh, you know, bring up You know, some of your questions and comments. Thank you so much for Um joining Nikita. Your question is what business is for a woman? Uh, to choose for a woman startup. Well, you know, I don't think there is anything which is specific to women starting up. Um, you know, I just don't think that's limited by gender anything that you think there is a Opportunity in the marketplace wherever you are operating that I think is an opportunity for a startup and you got to decide whether That startup is going to be run by just you or are you going to work with a set of people? How large that startup is going to be you can either take an organic decision Uh, that, you know, as the startup expands, you keep expanding with it Or you might decide that you are going to operate, uh, in a limited space for very for a span of time to test the markets There are multiple ways you can do that and this is one of the ways in which you can run your own startups and Nikita. Good luck with that Uh, thank you so much. Um, and I hope that answers your question But I'm also going to invite some of the other people to Uh, share your comments, uh, you know out here. Uh, bring it up here Sarah luel nyamu, uh, I'm going to sort of Say that thank you for this podcast. I do enjoy reading your newsletters Thank you so much Sarah. Uh, I would love to have you as my guest on my podcast Oh, I would totally love to join you on your podcast So just let me know drop me a mail. Uh dm on linkedin and we can do this. Um There is another question from chan, uh chan gupta. Thank you for being here Your question is india offers a very young Population in the workforce. How do people like me who are 45 plus extend our work life? Though I can beat at 30 years and uh, Manitans, uh, well, okay So chan, uh, that's a fabulous question. I think When you look at As I said the reason why career 3.0 is going to progressively start to see become the dominant model Is uh, you know, if you look at all the layoffs that are happening in various sectors, you know You look at what's happening in media. Look at what's happening in tech Look at what's happening in pharma all the companies, uh, you know that you can think of regardless of sectors FM cgs all of them are trimming their workforce Part of the reason is of course that you know, most of these companies are over hired during the pandemic Uh, but and and then they are sort of really trimming The workforce at this point of time But that apart there is something else which is happening, which is Sometimes invisible which is that you know business models are shifting An example of that is, you know, if you see how media is shifting is that a number of different things have You know changed in media and that is creating a different kind of a That's creating a different kind of an opportunity. So that's creating You know the rise of the career 3.0 because the skills also have a very short shelf life IBM says a technical skill lasts you only for two and a half to three years So which means at all stages you've got to reinvent yourself and Then you have the third reason which is that human beings are living longer. So, uh, so you kind of said that Chen your question was how do people like me? At 45 plus extend our work life. I think the answer is In my book I talk about six skills, uh, and I'm going to briefly mention that before bringing on my guest, uh, Rajiv who's joining us in the next couple of seconds The six skills I talk about that you must build it's detailed out in the book One is how do you learn what you have not been formally taught? And two second skill is that you actually land up teaching it online So you build a large community and you can become Part of different ecosystems, which is the third skill. How do you become part of different ecosystems? Fourth is that you are a great storyteller that helps you really, you know expand your audience online And the fifth element is how do you build a strong personal brand and the sixth is How do you really, uh, you know, think like a venture capitalist as you start having one particular Skill where you are an expert you start building a second skill as that becomes a little better You build the third skill and so on and so forth at any given point of time Some of your skills will be improving in their expert You'll become much better at it and in some cases That skill is going to no longer be relevant Having said that I'm going to sort of invite My real guest today We've managed to fix the technical glitch and I'm thankful for my friend Rajeev Bhalla to join Rajeev is the former MD of Barco and I'm going to ask him to do a different Different kind of introduction he's going to introduce himself through his stories And as I said, he's a mentor to several people. He's a coach He is also a wonderful wonderful storyteller and I said before I'm a fan of his writings So let me get Rajeev on stage. Thank you Rajeev for joining And I so Thank you very much. I actually Um wanted to welcome you and I don't think I did justice in your introduction So Rajeev, how do you describe yourself today? Uh, you know post Work as the managing director of Barco You know, what is life life for you today? What are the different things you're doing? And explain that to me in the model of career 3.0. How is that looking at it? Well, um, as you call out in career 3.0, uh, you know, we've all gone through stages of career 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0 And in career 1.0, it's it's about Managing in one environment And and doing one job and specializing in it and as you move towards 3.0 You could have Three plus different environments under which you're doing Two or three different things, right? Um, uh, having transitioned out of Barco. Uh, Uh, I've really used this transition period to kind of, uh, Uh, try to reinvent myself. Uh, you know, we are all living longer working longer and, uh, Uh, as one journeys through life, one realizes that, uh, one needs to One needs to constantly Be a lifelong learner learning new skills. Uh, and and value adding to oneself. Uh, so In this period, I'm, um, you know, as someone put it, I'm like that butterfly that is going on to different flowers and trying to get the You know, the the nectar out of those flowers. Uh, so I'm experimenting Um, I'm teaching I am, uh, consulting. Um, I'm building on some of my hobbies Uh, one of those on the bucket list was really to, uh, you know, get going with the guitar Um, I've lost, uh Some amount of weight. So I'm focusing on Building a leaner meaner me. Uh, I so I'm I'm kind of Really trying and experimenting different things. Some of them, uh, will become monetizable soon. Uh, and I think that's, uh, That's a great, uh experience that I'm having, uh, vijit I think, um, that's incredible rajiv. Uh, you know, the way you describe it. You are teaching you are sort of mentoring people You're consulting you're focusing on your health. You're picking up your hobby and I think Uh, when I, uh, you know, listen to you describe this I kind of think that that's probably the, you know, the best answer, you know, chen gupta had Asked this question that, um, how do people like me who are 45 plus extend our work life? You know, and I think that's probably a great answer. I don't know. How would you Is that what people should start doing early in their life? If so at what stage can you start doing that? Rajiv, what's your advice? Frankly, you can start, uh, as young as 22 or even earlier. I can, um, I can speak from my own experience. My son, uh, At 22 is working with a company, but he's also kind of, uh, pursuing his hobby. Uh, I'm proud to say recently he was kind of awarded, uh, you know, the title of being one of the lead influencers on LinkedIn on sustainability. Uh, so, so, so I think, uh, there's no real age. The sooner you start, the better it is. And, and specifically in a post pandemic world, uh, one is really seeing that work is not a place, work is outcomes and results. So you can do multiple things from anywhere. Uh, the key is to create impact. And I think, uh, I would say on hindsight, it's good to do. You know, it's good to, uh, to kind of have one or two skills that you can build on. Uh, as you say, when we've been talking often, you know, uh, work on your hobby and that hobby is going to help you as you move ahead. Uh, so I think one needs to continue to do new things, uh, be a lifelong learner and, uh, open yourself to the world of opportunities. Absolutely. Um, you know, I want to though, uh, you know, I want to take you back to, uh, your career journey, you know, when you started, uh, what was your graduation degree in? Uh, what did you graduate in and what, what did you want to be then when you started your career? You know, um, I come from a generation where it was considered the thing, uh, to start off on a job and end with that job, right? End your career with that job. Um, so I, uh, in our times, uh, you know, you had, you either became an engineer or a doctor or a CA or a lawyer. Uh, so I did my electronic engineering, um, and, uh, that led me, uh, immediately after engineering to working on the shop floor, uh, assembling amplifiers, working, uh, on assembly, even computers with another organization and then life, uh, took a so-called, uh, uh, technical turn, um, which led me on to my national journey. Um, I want to sort of, uh, decode it periodically as you are talking, you know, you started first, you did your engineering and then did, you know, the, the standard thing, a career 1.0 model, you pick up a job, uh, in what you have qualified in. So you qualified as an electronic engineer, uh, and then became, uh, an engineer, uh, subsequent to that, uh, you know, um, what was this technical turn that, uh, you know, changed your life? So I was working, uh, with, uh, this, uh, largest Indian firm that deals in professional audio equipment and, um, uh, I was coming back from Chennai, uh, on, uh, you know, on the last flight out of Chennai and, um, we were just about 30 minutes away from Chennai after taking off when you heard a big boom and, uh, the pilot comes on air and says, hey, ladies and gentlemen, nothing to be afraid. Uh, we've just got a technical glitch. We've traveled a bit, understand when you hear a boom, uh, and, and the pilot comes out sounding reassuring that there's something amiss. Um, and, and we all could figure out that, uh, you know, there is a major issue and the pilot told us, hey, we are turning back and we will land in Chennai in another 20 minutes. Uh, I still kind of recollect the image. I remember seeing folks there, uh, who almost seemed to send us to, uh, in, in, in flight. Hey, let's, let's stay calm, but their faces seem to be saying, hey, should we ride our will? Uh, you know, as, as we landed, uh, being the last flight out the airline put us on, uh, into a hotel. Um, and, um, as folks, uh, usually do, I kind of wanted to unwind de-stress and I went to the Papandi hotel and, um, a few moments later, a gentleman comes to me, introduces himself as KPR, uh, leading, uh, consultant, uh, who heads MaFoI consultant. Yeah. Who heads MaFoI and, um, you know, over conversation, uh, over beer, he kind of offers me, uh, a job, uh, with a German multinational based out of Chennai in product management. And, uh, that's how I say that, uh, my journey onto the multinational arena began, uh, because of a technical glitch. And frankly, there was no looking back after that, Abhijeet. So, um, again, let me pause and decode this segment, uh, you know, uh, so you, you were an engineer working in an engineering role and, uh, you're sort of really happy doing that. And then there is, uh, on a plane journey, you know, there's a technical snag and you kind of have, literally have an interview in a pub, uh, job interview with the headhunter in a pub. And that lands you into a, uh, completely different career trajectory. Uh, you know, you land up being part of a global, um, sort of on a global career, uh, journey. And the reason why I sort of say that is because there's somebody, uh, here, you know, uh, who has said that, can you please help me? How an Indian HR person can land a job overseas? Well, I, you know, so I don't know whether that your example is going to be of much help to this LinkedIn user who's asked that question. But I also think that I, I have often thought that, you know, we like to think about our career in terms of very planned sequences. You plan this out and you plan that out. And as someone says that risk is what happens when you have finished planning for all the risks. Uh, you know, so when you plan out for all the risks and this is what happens, it's also the time when most of the opportunities happen and we'll spend a little more time talking about the, the role that coincidences and pivots and, um, opportunities play because, you know, the way I'm differentiating that if there's, uh, coincidences are things that you don't have a control over. You just happen to be in right place, right time, that's a coincidence. Um, and an opportunity is something that you actively spotted and you go after it and you chase that. And then there are pivots where you kind of think that the choice you made didn't work. And then you kind of make a pivot, you make a shift and you want to do different things, sometimes planfully, sometimes unplanned both ways. I want to sort of really focus our conversation today on um, how did you build your skills, um, to eventually land up, uh, uh, you know, being at the top, you are the managing director of a firm. How do you see your skills changing? What did you do to build skills that have helped you? And in retrospect, what would you do better and different, uh, when you look back from the role of being a managing director and you could start with, uh, maybe at the entry level, what you did and what you think you should do and then mid-level and so on and so forth. So I think I was fortunate to have started with, uh, an Indian firm and, um, you know, fresh out of college, um, my manager got me exposed to every job role, every function. So I worked on the shop floor, uh, I assembled amplifiers, uh, I looked into, you know, the paint or the powder coating area, uh, did some work there, worked on the inventory management system, uh, did imports, did exports and then did sales and marketing. And I think over those three, three and a half years, the exposure that I had, um, has honestly helped me, um, in all the jobs that I've done, right? So I have always said this to, uh, to people that I interact with, um, who seek my advice is that as you start off in your career, be open to learning as much as you can. Um, the first few years of your life, you need to get as much exposure as you can, learn and things will follow. Um, I think my career then evolved partially because of this incident. So as you said, timing sometimes plays an important role. Um, I moved into this multi-NAT, uh, into product management, uh, and soon moved into a French multi-NAT, uh, as the, uh, as the head of marketing. And I remember when I was, uh, doing my marketing role, I had also finished my MBA, uh, in between, uh, my, my, my manager gave me a tough, uh, you know, he gave me a tough time saying, Hey Rajiv, uh, you know, you can't be sitting out of your vacuumized chambers, looking at frameworks and making marketing programs. You ought to be out there in the marketplace, understanding what the customer wants, uh, uh, what he sees value in, uh, work around the country, uh, because in India, also you can't have, uh, you can't paint the entire country with one brush. So you have to have a different strokes for different folks approach. Um, so one learned there, um, as I moved on, um, um, into a liquor organization, uh, I learned the art of, uh, you know, uh, building brands using surrogate advertising. Um, and whilst I was in the liquor firm, uh, I was approached by a consultant who wanted me to pitch for a role in Microsoft, uh, on education programs. And I remember talking to my hiring manager, uh, hey, how do you think I'm going to fit into this role? And she says here, uh, Hala, as she said, uh, you've taken people to an alcoholic high. Now you take them to a knowledgeable high. The high, uh, has to remain constant. And as I moved there, I realized that once you move into a larger organization, uh, the game is all about, um, you know, storytelling, articulating your point of view, um, managing different stakeholders, uh, and also, uh, kind of, uh, you know, working on with your team and ensuring that they get aligned with the organization's growth charter. So, so there, uh, one learned, uh, you know, the other softer skills or the power skills, as I'd like to say it, uh, in terms of, uh, how crucial it is to kind of navigate through the world. Um, uh, you know, uh, Kiran is, uh, appreciating what you have just said, Rajiv, but I'm going to pause and decode a couple of things that I pick up from this conversation. One, I think you talk about, um, you know, your exposure to different fields altogether. You know, different sectors from, um, audio engineering to, you know, a different, uh, you know, sector altogether to alcohol, to, uh, education. When you are looking at that, a broader exposure probably prepares you, um, for success as a managing director. Is, is that a valid conclusion I'm drawing on, um, you know, and then of course you also talk about the importance. The second thing is the importance of, uh, people-related skills, being able to influence storytelling. These are some of the things that you talk about. They are important. And I'm going to, you know, come back and ask your follow-up question about storytelling and influencing. Um, but, uh, have I drawn the right conclusions from your career journey so far? In my case, you're right. Uh, it might not be right for all. I've been fortunate, uh, uh, you know, that I've worked across consumer electronics, liquor, software, semiconductors, uh, IT infrastructure, and then visualization solutions companies. And I've also been fortunate to have worked across, uh, you know, organizations of different cultural backgrounds. Um, you know, I've worked with, uh, German organizations, French organizations, Americans, Japanese, and more recently the Belgian group. And you realize that when you work with different cultures, uh, you realize that, uh, you know, one, it gives you a broader global perspective. Two, it teaches you how to manage stakeholders at different levels. Uh, three, it kind of helps you, uh, you know, it helped me actually in some ways pitch the India story because all through I've always been talking about growth in India and I've been fortunate to have a driven growth, uh, in most of my roles. So, so, so when you work across different roles, uh, you work from an individual contributor to a team player, uh, you move from being a specialist to a generalist, uh, and you learn how to kind of, uh, you know, get work, uh, or from your team and work towards building what I call as a PhD amongst your team members or ensuring that they have passion, hunger, and desire to succeed. That's a very well said PhD, you know, some people in college used to say past high secondary with difficulty, but that's clearly not the one that you have in mind. So, um, I, I, I wanted to, uh, sort of, you know, go back to the stuff that you talked about influencing and storytelling. Uh, you know, progressively as you're looking at it, the first, first real, um, asset test in my view from what you said, uh, you actually talked about being a people manager. Uh, and what is the skill that you have there? Of course, you have the ability to influence people because you're managing a team, but can you really use formal authority to, uh, uh, get stuff done or work done? Or do you use more of informal authority when you become a first time people manager? What should you be doing? What could you be doing? See, I think we all realize that, uh, every organization is as good as its team. And so also every people manager, uh, can be as effective as his or her own team, right? And, and there it becomes crucial for, uh, the people manager to kind of understand that the key towards success is that, uh, he or she as a people manager builds trust. Uh, to build trust, one, you need to have, uh, you know, an open and authentic communication. You need to have the team clearly aligned with, uh, what are the goals, objectives of the organization. You need to enable the team, uh, to work towards achieving those goals and objectives. And I think those days of, hey, getting work done because I'm the boss doesn't work. Uh, you need to have the team rallied around the vision, uh, of the organization. Uh, and you need to kind of just work towards enabling and empowering the team. Uh, at the end of it, um, you know, as humans, we all like to be acknowledged for our successes. We all like to be challenged. Um, and there also, I think in, uh, in every human being, there is an intrinsic need or desire to value add to himself or herself, right? And, and there it's an important role, you know, the people manager needs to play an important role in terms of ensuring that the team, uh, remains, uh, on the learning path. Uh, uh, so, you know, you need to build a DNA of learning in the organization to ensure that the team, uh, value adds to themselves and the organization as they grow. So I think it's crucial that you, you work towards building a softer approach based, based on which you build trust. There is a question here from, uh, Vivekananda Halapathy. He says, what's your take on being a journalist versus a specialist and what has helped you in your career till date and beyond? Uh, great question, Vivekananda. Um, what, what do you feel has, uh, enriched you more being a specialist or depth versus breadth? Is that a choice or, uh, you know, what do you think? Well, uh, very interesting question, uh, Vivekananda. And, again, there is no, uh, no right answer in this, but to each one to themselves, uh, specifically in today's day and age, uh, when you're seeing technology enable and disrupt, uh, I've seen several folks who've gone on to become specialists. Uh, uh, they've built on that skill. Today, you know, a lot of folks who are kind of working on building skills that's around AI and so on. Uh, and, and then they've kind of moved, uh, towards higher ground. Uh, but as you evolve, you can, you can be a specialist as an individual contributor and grow. Uh, but if you've been a sales and a marketing person, uh, then the next natural thing is to evolve into profit center management, uh, acquire a few more skills and, uh, thereby get into a generalist role, uh, which could be a people manager or manager leading an organization. Um, I'm going to, um, share my point of view on this is, you know, I think in some, some of the areas, uh, Rajiv, I would say that, um, it becomes important, uh, to be a generalist in some disciplines. For example, in today's world as, uh, technology AI is really shaping every job. I think you need to be a generalist as far as AI and, uh, you know, even people management and understanding the business, some of your functional pieces, you need to be a generalist. In some of the areas that you are working in, uh, you need to be a specialist, which is, uh, are there things in your area of work that you can do better than anybody else? Are there things in your role that you can do better than anybody else? And perhaps in your organization, are you the go-to person or the expert who everybody relies on, uh, for, uh, you know, doing work in some of these areas? So that's how I would look at it. But, um, we've got a whole bunch of questions. So I'm going to sort of start moving a little quickly on this. Um, and, you know, this is a comment from Kiran, Kiran Chopra says, while storytelling is great, provided it's your own story is, uh, that you've been there, you've done that kind of stuff, and it aligns to your personal values. Absolutely correct. Um, storytelling is also one of, probably, I think, as you go up pretty much from people manager role upwards, building that skill becomes important. Um, that's what I think, you know, and how do you describe storytelling? Because a lot of people think of storytelling as just spinning a yarn, which is fancy, which is not true. Though I define storytelling as making the truth more memorable. That's how I would define it. What's your definition? I think you, you know, you have your way with words and I couldn't have said it better, Abhijeet, you know, making those moments more memorable. Yes. Uh, and I think, uh, that's, uh, that's a key. You know, we often, uh, sometimes tend to ramble and I'm now going back into the corporate world. Uh, you know, you're making a presentation, you're making an important presentation in, in front of some senior folks, and you go on and on and on. Uh, I think the first two or three minutes are crucial. Uh, so if you can, uh, lay the foundation, um, start off with an interesting point in the form of a story, uh, then you've got the audience's attention and, uh, you know, you can then go on and complete your task. Um, I, I, you know, I'm reminded of a, uh, small incident from my school days. We were asked to write a story about getting lost in the forest. I think if this was in the 10th grade and my English teacher had given this, uh, uh, yes, something for us to think about. So we wrote the story, uh, you know, and I wrote about how we are playing cricket and it was in the evening and we had a whole lot of my, uh, friends together and, you know, somebody, uh, sort of, I was bowling and this person actually, uh, hit the ball, uh, and, and you know, we were losing and it was a big, uh, you know, challenge for us. At this point of time, uh, you know, my English teacher struck out the entire piece that I had written so far, struck it out and wrote, get lost quickly. Which means that the story was really about getting lost in the forest. Why are you building such a huge preamble? I think that's a, uh, that's a challenge. A lot of us actually are guilty of that. You know, we built very long preambles. There is a question from Ion Banerjee. He has asked this question that, does exposure to failure help the team to learn? And if so, um, let's imagine a scenario. I'm going to turn this into a slightly different question, which is how do you, how do you, you know, your team was to work on a certain project, deliver something they have failed. How do you turn this failure? You know, you are sealing with anger because it's humiliating. You missed something. You missed a deadline or you've done something badly. Your team is sitting there. How do you turn it into a learning moment? What do you do? I think, uh, in every challenge, there's an opportunity I am. And, uh, uh, it's how you convert that challenge or how you convert that failure into an opportunity is what really matters, right? And the key in today's world is, uh, it's okay to fail, uh, but you must fail fast and you must fail forward. Uh, use, uh, that failure as a learning experience, uh, so that you can, uh, you know, repel it yourself, correct your mistakes, uh, and, and, and deliver brighter outcomes. So I think, uh, it's okay to fail, uh, uh, as long as you use it as a learning experience, uh, to kind of move forward. Um, uh, you know, Suran Lakshmi, Sarkar says, career today is, uh, leveraging your failures and successes and your experience to show one's authentic willingness to work, flexibility with uncertainty. You know, I think it's really well put. Uh, I also like, yeah, and I also like how Ross had shared it, you know, I got to bring that up. He says that I like to create knowledge clusters and try to go, uh, deepen knowledge and expertise where possible with the 360 degree view of the environment. This is a great suggestion on how to, uh, you know, use failure as a learning moment. Yes, of course, you know, it's all those emotions of yourself that you have to manage. I also think that, uh, sometimes being able to manage your own emotions is a very big part of, uh, success. How did you do that? You know, how do you manage the time when you're obviously deeply upset with somebody in the office? Uh, you're disappointed. You're all the negative emotions. You're angry about some stuff. How do you handle those moments? But, you know, because people will always say you'd never let your emotions show. Is that good advice is a bad advice? What do you follow? Well, I've actually evolved and you've, you've picked up on something where I have continued to, to work on, uh, and to evolve. But, um, as a journey through my life, I believe it's okay, uh, to be emotional. It's okay to have emotions as long as you can channelize that emotion in a constructive and positive way. Um, uh, so if you use that, uh, as a, uh, a means to generate, um, you know, to energize yourself, uh, to challenge yourself, it's okay. Um, so that's on an individual level. Uh, whilst you're working towards managing a team, I think it's crucial, uh, to kind of manage, uh, you know, you think before you speak, um, uh, and, and, and ensure that, um, you kind of, uh, you know, uh, cool down before you express your point of view. So take that break. Uh, but, but it's okay. You know, I remember I used to get flustered, um, in the early days of my life, and I turned pink out here and I'd say, oh shit, now these guys will know that I'm getting angry. Uh, but it's fine. It's at the end of it, we are all humans. Uh, the, the key thing is to be authentic, uh, and, and, uh, to somehow channelize your emotions in a constructive manner. Um, uh, you know, we have, uh, a big question from a LinkedIn user. Somehow your name doesn't show up. So sorry about not sharing your name. When it comes to being a people manager, what kind of a leadership style do you follow? Um, is it autocratic or democratic? Also, uh, when it comes to being democratic, we tend to feel that employees take us for granted. How do you deal with something like this? Um, what's your take? I think the days of, uh, autocracy are gone, right? Uh, at least in, uh, in the organization that one has been exposed to, uh, you know, you've got to earn the respect, uh, of your, folks. Uh, and I can speak out of, uh, my own personal example. The last organization that I worked with, uh, had blue-collared folks as well as young IT software guys. The blue-collared folks were at an average age of about 40, 45. The IT folks were at an age of about 29, 30. And, you know, uh, the, the, the Gen Z and the younger folks, the millennials, um, they, uh, they come with incredible amount of confidence. Uh, and, and they know to some extent that, hey, the world is their battleground. So, so you've got to kind of win them over just like you've got to win the blue-collared folks over, uh, through leading by example, uh, through earning their respect. Um, and, and by creating value for them, uh, at the end of the day, uh, people will work for a leader who they believe in. People will work for a leader who creates value for them and people will work for a leader who is authentic. Oh, and, and that's what Sona Lakshmi Sarkar's comment was that for today, organizations are talking about radical transparency and authenticity and you just can't wear masks all the time. So, uh, great. Thank you very much for all your questions. Keep them coming. And, uh, I'm actually, um, uh, you know, just for the benefit of all those who joined at a little late before I got a chance to introduce Rajiv. Um, I guess today is Rajiv Bhanda, the former MD of, uh, Barko. And he's also an advisor to startups. He's a consultant. He's a coach. And, um, you should follow him on, uh, on LinkedIn where he writes some of the fabulous posts Rajiv. Uh, how have you built your skill in writing? And I, I suddenly started noticing how good your posts are and I really haven't been enjoying those. So, uh, those of you who don't follow Rajiv, you're missing out, love all the stuff that he writes about. And, uh, thank you for, uh, you know, following Rajiv. Uh, so this is, I wanted to ask you, how do you do that? You write really well. Thank you, Abhijeet. Uh, there was, uh, or let's, let's be honest. I think, uh, I don't know if you've brought that out, but we met whilst doing the independent director, uh, program, right, certification program. And I, over a period of time, we got to know each other better. And I remember in one of those conversations, um, you know, you kind of prodded me to say, Hey, people will, uh, people will want to read or listen, uh, to someone who is authentic and someone who tells his or her own story rather than following a cliched path. Uh, for me, um, as I work towards building on my writing skills over the last four or five years, uh, I've always looked for those aha moments. Uh, sometimes, uh, it happens when you're giving a hug to your mom or a loved one. Sometimes it happens whilst having a cup of tea, uh, whilst you're traveling in a train, uh, or sometimes it could happen just while you're walking, uh, early in the morning, right? And, and, and there I try to relate with my own personal experience. Uh, and most of my blogs are around my personal experiences, what I've learned from them. And, and, uh, that's what I try to build in my writing style. Uh, so, and when you have an idea, uh, you know, I sometimes wonder what to do because sometimes I get an idea in the middle of the night. If I don't get up and write it down right then, which means I actually have to physically get out of the bed, get to a place where I can scribble down at least right in longhand, uh, what I'm doing. Uh, otherwise that, you know, uh, that moment is gone. I find it very hard to remember, uh, stuff if I've just made a mental note and say, this is what I'm going to write about, but then it just disappears. So it's fleeting. Those ideas when I'm sleeping. So I don't get up in the middle of the night, but that's a great one. So, so no, I think it is, it is reflective of your sleep quality versus mine. I think that's the real piece. You know, so we have a comment from Ross who says that leadership is something people fail to understand how important and powerful in the team it is in an organization. Um, great leaders improve environments and outcomes. Oh, I like that. But yeah, great leaders improve environments. Um, do you think, uh, you know, this, um, question that, uh, you know, there's a question from Sona, uh, Sona Lakshmi Sarkar. She says that about the, um, acceptance of being radically transparent and courageous to provide feedback, uh, and still be open, uh, you know, in the, uh, still be open to accept in the Indian or Asian geography and culture, you've worked across different continents. So what's your take on that? Uh, does it work well if you're radically transparent? I think first of all, feedback is a gift. Uh, and, uh, as one evolves, uh, both, uh, you know, you need to, uh, you need to kind of build on your skill of accepting feedback as well as giving feedback, uh, in a positive manner. The crucial thing is to detach the person from the problem, talk about the problem, um, give, uh, feedback, which is constructive, um, you know, as, uh, you know, there have been instances, uh, in my career where I have disagreed, uh, with, uh, even my manager, uh, and I've kind of justified why I believe, uh, you know, uh, I disagree with him, uh, and how he could do, he or she could do things differently. At the end of it, we've all got to see that we work towards making the organization succeed, work together as a team. Uh, but if the manager says, hey, uh, no, I've understood your point of view, but we are only going to do it my way, then I often, uh, you know, put into practice, um, a value called, uh, disagree and commit. Uh, so, so you point out why you, uh, why you disagree, but at the end of it, you've got to commit as a team member, uh, towards the larger goals of the organization. So I think feedback is good, but feedback needs to be given constructively. Um, and if you can kind of, you know, remove the blunt edges or smoothen the blunt edges, uh, that's always good. Detach the person from the problem and give feedback is what I'd say. Uh, uh, Ross, uh, says that, uh, feedback is a gift and he loves that and he's going to be telling his kids this, but I, um, my suggestion, at least my learning from my kids is they prefer real gifts rather than feedback as a gift. So, uh, Ross, you must keep that in mind. There's a great question coming from, uh, Preeti Sharf. Lovely to see you here, Preeti. Uh, question is, how can Indian leaders bring a global mindset and professionalism for organizations and employees? Um, what is your advice on that? Well, I think, uh, it's crucial, first of all, as a leader to honestly work towards building a global mindset, um, uh, himself or herself, right? So, so, uh, so we've got to move out of those hard, hierarchical, uh, concepts. Uh, you know, you've got to be, uh, looking towards, uh, being a lifelong learner for yourself and being a lifelong learner, uh, encouraging lifelong learning in the organization. Uh, it's also crucial, uh, to kind of, uh, you know, build in, uh, a concept where, uh, you work towards empowering your folks. Um, one of my managers, Preeti, did tell me in, uh, you know, during the course of, uh, my career that, hey, uh, for me, uh, and this was a manager from a Japanese organization who said, hey, I wish for my child to see the world because when my child sees the world, he will understand different cultures, different concepts will understand, uh, that different cultures work differently. Uh, but we as individuals have the same intrinsic wants, needs and desires. So if you, if you really, uh, you know, kind of open up your, uh, mind, uh, towards accepting new things, uh, and it starts from the top. If you have a global mindset, you can work towards building, uh, an organization that, that kind of has a broader outlook. I'm not sure if I've answered her question, but if you, do you have a perspective, Abhijeet? But, you know, I, I kind of think that, um, a global mindset comes from, um, two or three different pieces. One is to be able to understand, even within the country, you know, there are differences. Um, so, you know, what, uh, I worked in different, uh, corners of India, you know, not Southeast and West. I think there are such radical differences between different states of the country. Um, to be able to actually start watching for differences and similarities, um, you know, even within the country that you're operating is a great starting point. That's my first, uh, take. The second, uh, piece that I would sort of really, uh, look for is, you know, when you think about, um, when you think about travel, you know, you can read up, uh, about a place or you can travel to a place. Both are equally effective. Uh, you know, sometimes when you think that, uh, that you are able to read up about a country, I mean, I may not be able to visit the country, but nothing prevents me from reading. So I think reading is an undervalued skill, uh, in building up your capability for things that you are not exposed to. So I would sort of really, uh, speak very sharply in favor of reading a lot. Today, uh, we live in a golden age where all information is free, you know, listen to, uh, the biggest thinkers, you know, experts on various things. And sometimes I feel that, um, it's, uh, it's good to be alive to the differences between different cultures. But I also think that, um, you know, when you start to look at those differences, there's a fear that you might be generalizing and stereotyping cultures. So if I say, you know, what's your example of, uh, how the Japanese culture is different from, let's say, the Belgian culture, you know, chances are that that within the Japanese culture, there are hundreds of, uh, areas which are subtle. So I think being able to sort of look at that becomes important. Um, and I'm going to sort of push this question back to, uh, the audience. I would love to hear each one of you just respond if you take a minute to write, uh, you know, just two points. How do you personally view the audience, build your ability to learn about a world, something that you haven't seen or traveled to or known about? How do you become familiar with that? Whether it's a subject, whether it's a country, uh, I'd love to have your responses. So if you sort of join in, um, uh, you know, this is, uh, it would be great. We have some more questions. Thank you very much for all the questions. Uh, Nitin joined a little late. I'd like to ask how learning and development will become the first choice of the business to grow. If you've seen in the past, whenever layoffs happen, the first department will get maximum of it is learning and development. Um, well, I'll share my first response to this, and then I'll have Rajiv who's, uh, smiling. Rajiv, you're the person that they are worried about. They're the business leaders, uh, you know, knock off learning and development. I hope you have not been guilty of doing that, but I'll give my point of view, which is, I think it's really like saying that when a business is not doing well, I would actually think you should, um, invest more in learning and development. It's really like saying if you are, uh, uh, if you are sinking to stop investing in swimming lessons would be a really foolish perspective. So, uh, start investing in swimming lessons if you are sinking. That's my take, but we'll come back to it. Rajiv, you're the guest. I want to hear what you have to say. You know, I think, uh, again, uh, in today's world, uh, one has to consistently reinvent oneself to stay relevant. Right. And, uh, I go back, uh, to a line that I read a few months back that said that every company is a digital company. Talk to me of a CXO who's afraid of technology and I can say that there's a disaster waiting to happen. Over the last few months, I've been a part of several panels where they've discussed, uh, the pros and cons of generative AI. Now look, good or bad, we all need to learn to leverage generative AI, uh, to, to kind of improve productivity, improve efficiency, improve customer centricity and so on. So, so, so how do you do that? You have to do it by continuously learning. So organizations that don't inculcate, uh, the DNA of learning are going to die for the want of a better word. I'm sorry if this sounds a little harsh, but I think learning is, uh, a key competitive advantage, uh, that organizations are going to have. Uh, and again, uh, Abhijith, I remember in one of our conversations, you said, or I think it's in your book where you mentioned that, uh, you know, people are not going to lose jobs to AI. People are going to lose jobs to other folks who are using AI, right? And I think if one does not learn and does not, you know, kind of build on a new skill, uh, well, it's going to be difficult for the individual or the organization to survive and thrive. Perfect. So we have got some responses from people to the question, how do you learn about, uh, companies or areas which you are not familiar with that Sonalakshmi says cultural coffee snack sessions and deliberate cultural speed dating with individuals in the same company or using platforms for expat meetups to learn about new cultures and languages. Uh, we have a response from Rajiv Ray who says, um, reading needs us to invest a lot of time, but for small business owners like me, it is very difficult to get that spare time. Uh, would you like to enlighten us about this? Um, okay. I'm going to share my idea on reading and, uh, then I'm going to hand it over to Rajiv. My, uh, suggestion, you know, Rajiv, I always, um, uh, you know, I tell people start small. Uh, and one of the ways to do it is to use a technique called 10 at 10. This is no specific technique. I just like to call it 10 at 10 because it's easy to remember. Um, 10 o'clock at night, for exactly 10 minutes, put a timer, read something for 10 minutes. Uh, the first day, reading for 10 minutes will seem awfully long to you. Uh, and it's just like really building a muscle. The first time when you lift up a weight, you don't go and lift, you know, 100 kgs at one shot. You actually, uh, turn it up. So you start by lifting maybe five kgs, three kgs or whatever it is. And you know, and then you work your way up. So build your, uh, habit until you spend the next two, three, four months reading just for 10 minutes, you'll be amazed how much you do, uh, you know, um, in 10 minutes. Two, if you don't, um, uh, if you are struggling with that to begin with, ease yourself into this whole habit of staying still for 10 minutes to listen to an idea. I love listening to podcasts. I'm a podcast junkie. I listen to loads of them. That's another thing that you can do. Rajiv, what's your go-to method? I, I, I kind of, uh, listen to a lot of podcasts these days. Uh, I don't do the 10 on 10, but, uh, yes, uh, uh, I do ensure that I spend close to about half an hour in the morning and about 15 minutes, uh, before hitting the sack on reading something. Uh, what I've also learned is that it's sometimes important to kind of, uh, move from your favorite topic towards reading a little bit on art, reading a little bit on music, reading a little bit about politics, reading about business, and that kind of broadens your perspective. So, so I don't, uh, have a preset method, but I just pick up something and I read and, uh, sometimes I just love what I read and then I write something around that. Oh, beautiful. Uh, you know, we are actually coming up to the end of this, uh, time, but, um, uh, I have an idea for this, Rajiv. Um, one is Alok Ligam actually says leadership is not so much about operating in the black and white environment, but how well you navigate through the gray areas. Um, in such situations, the courage of the leader comes out to play. What's your view on this, Rajiv, your take? I think Alok has said it really well. So, so, uh, at the end of it, uh, you know, that's a key skill also to have, right? If you believe in something, uh, uh, and you've kind of done your research, uh, then you need to have the courage to put your point and, and drive it through. You know, um, I often follow, you know, I love these lines which says that, uh, if you think you've beaten, you are, if you think you've lost, you have, life's battles don't go to the stronger or faster person. Very often the person who wins is the person who thinks he or she can. So at the end of it, uh, you've got to follow that and move ahead. Uh, thank you. And Ross also actually has an interesting suggestion. He says, leave a book in the bathroom and read a little when you're going to the bathroom. And he reads multiple books a year and it takes very little time. So he says, use the time that you're currently wasting. But my tip on that is I, um, have trained myself to read on my phone. So I have those ebooks. Uh, so I download the books and read it. Or sometimes I'm really trying to learn about audio books and podcasts. So audiobooks, podcasts, ebooks, these are all ways in which your phone travels with you and you can actually use it to learn and read. Um, one, um, Rajiv, today we are, of course, unfortunately coming up to the, um, uh, end of the conversation, but I have a request and, uh, uh, question, you know, so there are a whole lot of other questions which we didn't get a chance to answer and I would hit for it to, you know, go and answer. So if you're okay, uh, and can I invite you tomorrow for a LinkedIn audio conversation where we will answer some of these questions? I'd love to do that. I'd love to do that. Abhijeet. So this is a public commitment, right? Yes, sir. So no going back, no going back. Okay. All right. Thank you Rajiv. So what we'll do here is what I am suggesting. Thank you. I truly appreciate you're doing this. What we'll do everyone is that we are going to have, um, Rajiv, uh, and me, we'll start off this whole conversation tomorrow, uh, to do a really free flowing LinkedIn audio, uh, same time as we did today, um, eight, uh, AM Pacific time in Seattle, which is where I am. It's going to be 9 30 PM in India. Um, you know, so tomorrow, so which is 24 hours from now, we'll have that. And I look forward to having you on LinkedIn, uh, for this LinkedIn audio conversation where the only way that you need to sort of, what you need to do is you can either just listen and if you have to ask a question, unmute yourself. Uh, so you're going to change the settings in your browser and then put your hand up. I'll bring you up on stage and we can ask questions pretty much like what clubhouse used to be, uh, in the earlier days. So, uh, that'd be great. Rajiv, I want to summarize a couple of big takeaways in our conversation today. Uh, so one, I thought I loved the idea that, you know, as you moved from a sort of, you know, I would say a traditional role where you joined engineering and then, uh, you know, went into becoming an engineer. Uh, it would have been great, but it wasn't something that you consciously really deeply thought about alternatives, career choices, options, and then did that. It's something you jumped into. You later did your MBA, moved into a completely different area, which is marketing that you sort of worked across multiple sectors. And then you prepared yourself, you know, in terms of the people management roles that was one takeaway and the other is also learning how to work in different cultural environments. And you talked about how you've reinvented yourself and you, you know, now you're doing a typical career 3.0, uh, kind of a conversation, which is your, um, coaching people, your advising startups, your consulting, your reading, your working on your health, your learning to play the guitar. Absolutely wonderful. What a role model you are, Rajiv. Thank you very, very much for being here. And, uh, uh, you know, it's really fabulous to be able to have this conversation with you. Thank you, everyone, all those of you who are there who've, you know, who've joined in, I'm really thankful for you to be here and look forward to continuing this conversation tomorrow. Thanks a million every Wednesday. I have a conversation with, you know, some amazing people. And if you think that, uh, uh, your career journey is equally interesting, happy to have you, you know, join them either on the LinkedIn audio or on this particular forum, whatever works, we can do that until we see you next time next week. Same time. Goodbye. Thank you.