 Good evening everyone. Welcome to tonight's Common Council meeting. Before we start, we always ask our city clerk to read us a quote for the week. Madam City Clerk. Thank you. You can easily judge the character of a person by how they treat those who can do nothing for them. Thank you Madam City Clerk. Also please note a reminder to the public that Alderman Hanna will be taking applications for the Board of Water Commissioners. And we will have that election on September 17th. So anyone interested in the public and being considered for the position. Can everyone hear? No. Please get the fence. Steve, can we turn up the volume a little bit please? Thank you, citizen. Okay, it'll be a little warm in here. Please bear with us. We may have to open windows in the middle. Once again, a reminder to the public. Anyone who is interested in serving in the Board of Water Commissioners, submit their application, their letter of interest to Alderman Hanna, president of the Common Council, between now and the next Common Council meeting, which is the 17th. Thank you very much. Call the 11th regular meeting of the Common Council to order. Please call the roll. Warren. Here. Bulk. Here. Gisha. Here. Hanna. Here. Heidemann. Here. Kittlesen. Here. Clowness. Here. Manny. Here. Meyer. Here. Montemayor. Here. Rindflash. Here. Ryan. Here. Smith. Here. Van Der Wiel. Excuse. Verhasselt. Here. And Wongamon. Excuse. 14 present. Quorum is present. Alderman Rindflash, please, leaders. Leaders in the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, Alderman Rindflash. Approval of the minutes. President Hanna. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I make a motion to approve the minutes. Second. Motion and second. Under discussion. There being none. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Minutes are approved. Mayor's appointments. Attorney McLean. Thank you, Your Honor. Honorable members of the Common Council hereby submit the following appointments to the Business Improvement District for your consideration. Reappoint Allen Rudnick, Mary Morande, Richard Greenke and David Gass for new three-year terms to expire 9, 10, 2010 signed by the mayor. Those appointments lie over. And there's a letter from Director of Planning and Development Paulette Enders to the mayor and council per chapter, excuse me, per charter ordinance number 4-0708. I hereby appoint William C. Balkie, the city engineer for the city of Shpoing, respectfully submitted. And that lies over. Thank you, Attorney McLean. Next item on the agenda is a proclamation for Stasio Medina and I would ask that he come forward. Good evening. Tonight we have a proclamation for Mr. Medina. This is, as I say, one of the part of my job that I really enjoy doing because it's a wonderful, fabulous opportunity to recognize people out in the communities who are doing a tremendous amount of work to make our community better. We have, our community is blessed with a lot of caring and giving people and some of them really don't come up to the forefront until some of us recognize them. Stasio Medina has been around a long time in Sheboygan. His family came to Sheboygan a long time ago. They've lived here a long time. They participated and have been extremely good citizens of the city of Sheboygan. In particular, Stasio Medina, whom we know as junior, Medina, has been very instrumental in doing a lot of good for our community. So I think a proclamation declaring a junior Medina day is appropriate and long overdue. So whereas, Stasio Medina, known to his friends as junior, has devoted himself as a servant to the citizens of the Sheboygan area and whereas, Stasio Medina has provided leadership by being elected the first Hispanic County Board Supervisor in the state of Wisconsin serving as a role model and whereas, Stasio Medina currently serves as the president of the Hispanic Service Club and whereas, Stasio Medina raises funding for college scholarships for students of Hispanic descent and whereas, Stasio Medina continues his community services by also serving on the Board of Directors for Partners for Community Development and Historical Society and whereas, Stasio Medina serves as a role model of a true public servant and community leader. I, Mayor Juan Perez, declare September 8th, Stasio Junior Medina Day. Congratulations. President Hanna, consent agenda. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I move that all RROs be accepted and placed on file and that all RCs be accepted and adopted. Second. Motion in second. Items 11-1 through items 11-16. Motion in second. Is there a all in the matter? Thank you, Your Honor. I would like to pull 11-11 for a separate vote on license number 49-13. 11-11 and RC by law and licensing recommending granting various licenses being pulled out for a separate vote. Any objection to that? There being none, I need a motion to put the, to accept and adopt the RC. Second. Motion in second to accept under discussion. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'll be abstaining from this vote. Abstaining? Thank you. Any other discussion? Please call the roll. Boke? Aye. Gisha? Aye. Hanna? Aye. Heidemann? Aye. Kittleson? Aye. Clioness? Aye. Manny? Aye. Meyer? Aye. Montemayor? Aye. Rindfleisch? 15. Ryan? Aye. Smith? Aye. And Brasselt? Aye. 13 ayes, one abstention. Motion carries. If there is none, please call the roll. Gisha? Aye. Hanna? Aye. Heidemann? Aye. Kittleson? Aye. Clioness? Aye. Manny? Aye. Meyer? Aye. Montemayor? Aye. Rindfleisch? Aye. Heidemann? Aye. Kittleson? Aye. Clioness? Aye. Manny? Aye. Meyer? Aye. Rindfleisch? Aye. Ryan? Aye. Smith? Aye. Rehasselt? Aye. Boren? Aye. And Bulg? Aye. 14 ayes. Motion carries. We did roll today. I mean this time. Okay. Moving on. Alderman, Montemayor? Thank you, Your Honor. I'd like to pull forward agenda items 969 and 970. It's at the very end. Very good. Pulling forward, 969, 970. Is there a motion? I move that 969, 970 be put upon their passage. We need a motion to discharge first. I would like to make the motion to discharge. Okay. And there's a second. Under discussion. August 20th, Chairman Verhasselt of Salary and Grievance trusted me to do the Salary and Grievance meeting. And a lot of things were put on that agenda. And I forgot this one. And I know it's important that we get things in on a timely manner. So I'm hoping that by acting on this now, it sort of will correct my error on August 20th when I forgot to even put it on the agenda. Thank you, Alderman Montemayor. Under further discussion, Alderman Verhasselt. Thank you, Your Honor. I do support the concept which is embodied in these two documents which is to separate the IS department from the finance department. So that's not my concern. But as chairman of the Salary and Grievance committee, I am vehemently opposed to this procedural move of discharging my committee and my five members or four members from being involved in this discussion. As luck would have it, our meeting was scheduled tonight right prior to the council meeting. So we did have the opportunity, even though it technically won't count on paper, we did have the opportunity to discuss these two documents. I think it sets a dangerous precedent to start pulling documents out of committee before they even get to committee, which is what the scenario was here. Because the nice thing about committee, being in committee with any document, is that it allows employee input, which this documents directly impacts city employees. But it also allows citizens the opportunity to weigh in on any discussion. And by pulling things out of committee before they even reach committee, we're basically putting the employees and the citizens in the backstage. And I don't think that's a good idea. Like I said, this sets a horrible precedent to go against the procedural move, but I do support the concept of separating IES from finance. Thank you, Alderman Rassel. Alderman Rings-Fleisch. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I agree. I think it's a horrible precedent to pull it out of the Solider Agreements Committee. If we look at the noticing function of the committee structure, it comes to the committee, it comes through the comic council first, gets submitted to committee where public has their say at the point in time. If we do not discuss it in that committee, discharge it, bring it back here and vote on it. My mind really hasn't had as full communication, as full sense of ability that the public can have a say on this aspect. And again, perhaps the public doesn't really care about any of the issues regarding this one, but once we do it for this one, we can do it for other ones as well. So I'm also going to vote no on the procedural move. All right, Vice President Bourne. Thank you. And are we just voting now on the procedural move? Yes. And I'll save my comments for later. Thank you. Just so you know, that procedural is permitted by Robert Rules of Order. Alderman Meyer. Thank you, Your Honor. As Alderman Verheselt has explained, we did talk about this tonight in committee, and this has been approved through the committee. And I don't see any reason why we should let it lay around for a couple more weeks. We need to get these things in place. We've been sitting on this for a couple of weeks. As Alderman Montemare said, we ran the meeting a couple of weeks ago. She had forgotten to put this on the agenda. And since then, she had tried to schedule another meeting, and that was canceled. There was a previous meeting also scheduled last week. That was also canceled. That would have addressed this issue. So I don't see any reason why we can't vote on this tonight. Alderman Meyer. Alderman Montemare. Thank you, Your Honor. And I can understand the concerns of Alderman Verhes and Alderman Rindfleisch. I can. This particular thing that we're talking about tonight is something that has been addressed by the public and by employees over the last two years at the salary agreements meetings. It isn't something brand new. It is something that the council, not the council, the committee members and the public and the people involved have had a chance to talk with. It isn't something like they did not. Alderman Manny, you're next, sir. Thank you, Your Honor. My simple question is to committee members who met recently here this evening, did you have adequate discussion? Alderman Meyer says that you did vote to affirm this. Was it unanimous? Were there strong reservations offered by citizens? A quick summation of that meeting, I think, would be helpful. Yes, so you're next anyway, so go ahead. Thank you for the question, Alderman Manny. But yes, we did approve it with some amendments to the wording of the document on 970, if you refer to the document. In the very first lead-in paragraph, instead of the words under the direction of the mayor, the wording will be changed to fall in line more with all of our existing department directors, which is going to now read, or at least the amendment suggestion reports to the mayor. Then there was a small housekeeping issue with the numbering down below. You'll see the numbers don't quite follow right below that. So those were the two issues brought up, and otherwise we accepted as amended. I did want, if I could, also share, seeing I am next on the agenda. This is a brand new document. I granted the discussions and hovering around is a lot of discussions in city government, state government, federal government issues to hang around for a long time. But this is a brand new document. This is a very brand new document. I guess my question is what's next? If we support the idea that's embodied here, I just don't like the procedural move here, because what's next if we see something in finance or something in public works, and we think, hey, that doesn't quite need the attention that they think it needs. Let's just pull it back into the council and get this thing moving. Again, we're cutting out citizens, we're cutting out employees, we're cutting out some good pieces of information that are part of our system, the way we set up our government. So it's a procedure that's rarely used. I know the previous time it had been used. But even the most important thing about this is that there's no basis for it. And I say that perhaps someone will stand up and try to lay out some basis for this move. But having talked to yourself, the mayor and Alderman Montemar over the last week, we had discussions outside of the council chambers as to their motivation behind what was the idea. Because typically this move would be used for a situation of emergency. Maybe we're trying to hire some new personnel. We need to get paperwork moving along and so on. But through my discussions with Alderman Montemar and through Mayor Perez, no basis was really realized or observed through those discussions. So that's probably the most concerning or alarming thing about this entire thing is why are we pulling this out of committee prematurely? Thank you, Alderman Brassel. Alderman Wrenschweig, second time. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Alderman Brassel actually answered some of my questions regarding this. Point number one, it is a new document. And yes, the issue has been discussed. And yes, Robert's Rules allows us to discharge the committee from that. But above and beyond that, I think the noticing issue is a big issue. Was the committee given the full notice this time around as the first question I would have for Alderman Brassel? Was it on tonight's agenda for soldiers and grievances? Was it on the agenda? Were these two documents on that agenda? They were on the agenda. Okay. In the middle of the fact. Okay, so the first issue that I would have has actually been satisfied. The fact that it has been satisfactorily noticed and I would ask two questions to Attorney McLean. Does that satisfy the notice required by the state that it comes from immediately after that committee to this one? And I think it does, but I want to ask you. And two, if it's a Robert's Rules procedure, what are the, what's the percentage needed to pass this? Is it 50-50 or is it two-thirds? Or three-quarters? You want to answer it? No. Similar majority? The motion and the notice of intent to make the motion to discharge the committee is on the agenda. It only requires a simple majority vote. Okay. And the first part of your question, again Alderman Wrenfleisch was. Thank you, Attorney. Was the notice on the agenda and soldiers and grievances committee satisfactory for the public to have that discussed to bring it to this meeting immediately thereafter? No, that requires some reference from salary and grievance to the council, which... Which is what this is. Well, this isn't from salary and grievance. This is taking it out of salary and grievance. Typically, salary and grievance would meet as they met this evening had they intended to place it on the agenda. I guess they could have placed it on the agenda knowing that they're going to meet in advance of the meeting and come out with a committee report. There is no reference to a committee report here on the council agenda that is typically what the reply from the committee is. Some committee report with respect to the documents. And that's not here. So the committee, I'm going to ask the chairman again if I may, it was not necessarily the intent for it to come from this committee immediately here, is that correct? Yes, sir. The chairman of the committee is well that the discussion while it was on the agenda was going to have a basis for tonight's council meeting other than explaining what our opinions were. They planned as chairman to share as I did it all demanding what our suggestions, what our discussion had been. We realized there was no paper trail that was going to actually find the council. Let's follow the protocol and address the chair and the committee chairman. I believe that we have a reason why we have committee structures not only for the public interest but as well that that committee I think best addresses the issues at hand. I will defer to that committee chairman and his wishes to vote against this today and I urge you all to do so as well. I think that we can't possibly know every detail going on in those committees unless we attend them all regularly and otherwise we'd all be on committees like the school district has I think that everyone is on the committees or you'd buy it up too. I'm sorry to interrupt. I will ask that we all defer to the wishes of the committee chairman and vote on this right now. I think there's people I just want to weigh in a little bit here I know some of them are concerned that perhaps we're not giving the public ample time in which to participate in any deliberation if there's a need to. Yes, you have. This has been on the agenda several times. Canceling and rescheduling the meeting by a chair does not allow the public either when they were planning to do that. We have issues that lie over. That doesn't allow the public to weigh in either. This is not something that's so dramatic that everybody's stunned by this. We operate these meetings using Robert rules of order and to say that we can't use one and try to rationalize and couch it in terms of denying the public anything I don't know that we should be doing that is Robert rules of order are there our job to avail ourselves of the rules of procedure so that we can conduct the business the manner we expect it to do. Thank you, Your Honor. I'd just like to ask either the committee chair or Alderman Montemayor what's the downside of waiting? What do we lose if we wait until the next let it come around? Well, Alderman Montemayor please respond to that. Thank you. More time. Let's go back to tonight's agenda if everything had gone the way it was supposed to and now it is on tonight's agenda. It has been a concern of mine and I've expressed it with Alderman and Verhasl that the way the meetings are being scheduled right now they don't come before you until two weeks later every other standing committees work comes before you for the next council meeting like tonight you're referring documents to the next council meeting they'll come before us the next council meeting the way it's being done now these documents don't come before us the next council meeting they come before us the next council meeting so everything is being held it's been held back that's been a concern of mine Alderman Montemayor So in terms of money or urgency of this structure is the city losing anything I guess is what I'm asking this item probably should have been on the agenda two and a half weeks ago and now if we don't address it tonight it'll be another two weeks from now and I don't know would it then be on the agenda or would we have to wait for two weeks after that Alderman, Ryan Thank you Mr. Mayor it's spent said the wheels of government turn very slowly I don't know who coined that phrase I wish I did but I don't believe it needs to be that way you know our job as a council is to move city business along procedurally there are no legal issues here to bring it back in two weeks to do the same thing again to me doesn't make any sense let's pass this tonight and get on with business Thank you Thank you Your Honor I just had a question operationally is this affecting those two departments the technology department and the finance department by the fact that nothing is happening is that hurting their operation on a day to day basis I know we don't have a chairman of financial director right now and this was all under him and so now the deputy finance director is carrying both areas you know a hardship or whatever I don't know if we can answer that that would be a department question and we don't have the person here okay anybody else third time I'll allow it I'll move her hassle Thank you Your Honor again I just wanted to point out you know the disturbing thing about this precedent it's not again it's not the idea but it's the fact that this document has arms and legs that will find its way back to this committee because we're separating the department which is fine and it's a good idea but we're gonna have salary and grievance issues that find its way back so to pull documents away from a committee before they see them and then the residual documents that come from that that are born out of that document it's we're sort of being blindsided in some respects if we start doing that sort of thing on a regular basis so um that's a challenge that I think every council member should think about as far as you're the mayor's concern Mayor Perez regarding my meeting dates you were at the meeting tonight and we talked about my personal situation as it relates to the dates that I use for my committee meetings I guess my question though to you is is your concern going to lead to future discharges because I'm holding these meetings at a time that's not pleasing to you is it going to lead to future discharges as well? future discharges of what of future documents of our committee I should say future discharges of our committee you're asking me and I didn't put it on the agenda okay now that was requested by Alderman so you're best address that to her at another time after the meeting or so I believe you share the same concern that's why I addressed it so I apologize but I believe you share the same exact concern I share the concern because you and I had a discussion about putting things on the agenda that don't come up before the agenda with a regular council meeting until two weeks later and I should let the Alderman the issue has been have we let have we allowed public input and discourse tonight the committee as I was present at the they discussed it they debated it they voted unanimously it's already done if that hadn't happened then perhaps I would be objecting to discharging the committee but that's already happened so now you're going to wait two weeks just because you want to wait for two weeks if that hadn't happened tonight then I probably would be agreeing with you Alderman Rahassel but the committee has already voted in favor approved it why are we going to wait two weeks we are a council that's expecting to make decisions in the best interest of the community the decision has already been made by the committee and I think we should move on well we got more people Alderman thank you your honor and I just want to say again we have had two meetings scheduled that would have addressed this issue and it would have put this on the agenda for tonight and both those meetings were canceled I was never notified as to why they were canceled I was prepared to be there and as mayor just stated we discussed this tonight it was debated there was no input from any public at this meeting even the people that this addressed did not speak any concerns so apparently they're fine with this it's been unanimously voted on and we should just move on and take care of it thank you Alderman Bauch thank you your honor I initially thought you know procedurally we don't want to set a precedent here we don't want to go down that slippery slope of reaching into committees and usurping the power of committee chairman and such I was inclined to vote against it but now given what Alderman Ryan has said and that what the mayor has said about this is business we know how it's going to turn out in two weeks nothing we do tonight is going to change how it's going to turn out in two weeks and so in the interest of expediency I'm going to vote yes with the caveat that I will be very wary of this discharge happening very frequently that would be troubling and neat thank you your honor thank you your honor I appreciate those comments and I concur with those I simply want to note also that in March and April last year with previous council there was much public input at that point much input from city employees so there has been latitude of many months for this kind of input to be a part of the public discussion thank you okay we will call a vote on the motion to discharge the committee first please call the roll Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Clowness Manny Rindflesch Ryan Perhasselt Bourne Bauck and Gisha Motion carries I need a motion to put the ordinance 69 and 70 upon the passage thank you your honor I approve that the general ordinance be put upon its passage second to that second under discussion we have on the rehearsal under discussion I'd like to make a motion to amend the document 970 under the term condition summary is to strike the word under the direction of the replacement of the word reports to second also to amend the word numbering system number thank you your honor motion in second further discussion no discussion just point out order I guess is this the suspension since it has not lied over in this committee thank you thank you please call the roll could you hold on just one second could you repeat the motion please is it to report to we will be striking the words under the direction of in the lead in paragraph replace it with the words reports to so it will read reports to the mayor and is responsible for providing assistance and direction so on and so forth and that's in the job description not in the actual document yes right under position summary okay this is on the amendment Heidemann Kittleson Manny Meyer Ryan Smith Bourne and Hannah 14 ayes motion carries now I need a motion to put the resolution upon its passage as amended we've got two ordinances going we may want to do separately we'll take 9.69 first Alderman Razzard ask that the general orders be accepted and not to report to the passage second and was that amended that wasn't amended okay we will in discussion we will call the roll Kittleson Manny Meyer Ryan Smith Bourne Bourne Gisha Hannah and Heidemann 12 ayes and 2 noes motion carries 9.70 Alderman Razzard I asked the document 9.70 the general ordinance 26.0708 be accepted and put upon its passage second as amended motion is second under discussion there is none please call the roll Manny Meyer Ryan Smith Bourne Bourne Gisha and Kittleson 12 ayes 2 noes motion carries report of officers 2 11.17 and 11.18 lies over to November 26 11.19 through 11.30 to be referred resolutions introduced 3 11.31 through 11.34 lies over to November 6 11.35 and 11.36 to be referred report of committees 7 11.37 by law and licensing recommended denying class B liquor license application number 2490 based on involvement in violations at the premises under the current license holder the committee is concerned about the lack of sufficient change in the ownership group from the current owner who has a recent lengthy history of law violations at the premises and concern that the proposed use is not in the best interest of the city as determined by the committee's standards for issuing licenses Vice President Bourne thank you your honor if I could go back on 11.34 the 11.31 through 11.34 that we're going to be lying over to 9.17 I would like document number 11.34 referred back to the salary and grievance committee so I make a motion that document number 11.34 be referred back to salary and grievance there's a motion to refer 11.34 back to salary and grievance is there a second? under discussion your honor thank you I attended one of the salary and grievance committee meetings in fact the reason I remember it distinctly the salary and grievance committee that was held in the council chambers and my issue with this memorandum of agreement and for the people watching on television this document has to do with an agreement for wages among other things with the fire department and also a residency a residency requirement at the salary and grievance committee that I attended the salary and grievance committee gave Mr. Surik the directions to discuss with the various unions and I stress the word discuss not negotiate on my document number 751 that's on hold by salary and grievances and this was the document the resolution that I brought in back in July having to do with all new city employees that are hired they become residents of the city of Sheboygan no where in my document does it say that this is going to be for 5 years 3 years or 8 years or 10 years it simply says that all new hired employees if this resolution 751 goes into effect those people will need to be residents of the city of Sheboygan now I understand that this has to be discussed with the unions before this could take effect that was the charge that Mr. Surik was given at that salary and grievance committee meeting was to discuss this with the unions not negotiate or open up contracts but to discuss it with the unions and report back the reaction of the unions to the salary and grievance committee before they would move forward on possibly any negotiations with any of the unions regarding my regarding my residency requirement so I want to send this to the salary and grievance committee to take another look at this document before it comes back to the council thank you under further discussion to refer back to committee Alderman Varhassel I just wanted to offer my support for Alderman born on the move because again the salary grievance chair I can attest in the minutes while attest to it as well that it was never authorized and that might be a meaningless point I think again there needs to be some rules followed here besides the fact that it wasn't authorized the residency goals were never met by Alderman born who was the author of the residency resolution we were far from reaching what we had anticipated there besides that probably as disturbing as anything is the fact that if we approve or at least move in the direction of approving this we'll have nothing to base this increase the large part of it that concerns the fact that we're offering a pay increase when I was told by Chief Listosky here earlier this summer that the union would work within the confines of their existing contract obviously that's not the case and it bothers me that Chief Listosky commander and one of the fire commanders are part of our city's negotiating team negotiating on the taxpayers behalf again I was informed of that so I think the fact that we don't have any comparable even say a 6% way too much maybe it's way too little if we're offering more God forbid that's the case but we don't have any comparables within hand right now and I talked to Ed Serk our human resource director and Chief Listosky we have comparables that would indicate what percent increase was offered to comparable departments around the state that made the same transition but to a to a a labor attorney I think Jim Scott is our labor attorney after discussing this with him this case is meaningless in arbitration the number that he's going to be looking at is the actual total amount of salary so if we're starting perhaps the salary for our people are already in line as they currently are we don't know the answer to that so we need to get comparables of actual salary numbers not just percentage increases again a labor attorney is going to throw those right out the window and arbitrate it as well according to our labor attorney so I think we need to go back do a little more homework make sure that we've got a good agreement in place so that the whole council can move forward in a confident fashion thank you thank you Mr. Mayor one of my most favorite movies of all time is Groundhog Day every time the fire department gets brought up it seems like the movie Groundhog Day with some Groundhog Day is a great movie it relives the same day over and over again for months and months and months and that's kind of how I feel about what's going on here there's been a couple of statements made that I'd like to clarify first of all Ed Surick didn't do the right thing and say the right thing Chief Listoski didn't do the right thing or say the right thing it was a very serious accusation very serious accusations and and I hope they were thrown out with much thought because it sets a bad tone and really misrepresents if you're incorrect that is quite the label to put on an individual I would I would hope that there'd be more than just the statement and some actual documentation of the fact that that would be the case second at a meeting I was at between 4 and 7% across the state of Wisconsin is what the paramedic ambulance premium is right now if the fire department union wants to go to arbitration right now because we're starting this January 1 they'll get 6% or they'll at least get between 4 and 7% this agreement isn't giving them anything we've done financial studies on this talk about having additional discussion studies this agreement actually gives the city of Sheboygan back almost $13,800 and I have the data back to the city up until this new contract ends what's bad about that if we have a problem with only 5 years residency well nobody will talk to us about residency none of the unions will I'm not even sold on residency but I understand it's a very hot point for a lot of people this is our first kick at the cat at residency but apparently it's not good enough it's gotta be more it was mentioned Jim Scott who's our city attorney labor negotiation, labor attorney Jim Scott's opinion of this and I'll back my statement up I'll ask Ed Surrick to back me up if he wishes believes this is one of the finest agreements he's ever seen in an arrangement like this he's an independent guy nobody involved with politics or Groundhog Day that we're dealing with here here's a guy who's an independent guy that we pay to give us independent opinions and he says it's a wonderful wonderful thing so to recap city of Sheboygan over the life of the term of the current contract the fire department gains $13,800 if you add up all the things they're giving back bad thing or good thing you decide sounds like a good thing to me too it's one of the better deals our independent attorney has ever seen bad thing or good thing to me sounds like a good thing and comparables we have that as well so tonight we seem to be throwing things back to committees and then pulling things back out of committees but in this case the committee did its work it voted on it we had a lot of discussion it now should lie over and I urge people not to vote to pull this back into committee once again because I'll tell you exactly what will happen I'm no brain surgeon but the union has already voted on this we now have a negotiated point if I was a union guy and our union and suddenly a deal that's been struck by our bargaining committee is now pulled out the rug from underneath them I'd say guess what boys we're starting over you'll get none of this stuff that gains the financial edge to the city of shiboyan none of it it'll all be gone so throwing the baby out with the bathwater because you have an issue with Ed or with a procedure fix those procedures but don't screw up something that's good that came out of it thank you thank you Elmengisha just as they are and I say this very respectfully dress the chair so we don't hold them run oh we got the lights on like a Christmas tree here so hi back I think my colleague Elmengisha has done a great summation of things so I won't belabor those points everything he said is factually accurate I'm not a member of the salary and grievances committee but I was at the committee meeting that night when comparables were discussed and questions were thrown at Mr. Surrick and he answered them I have been involved tangentially from the beginning of this ambulance proposal and again whether you agree with it or not whether you're a fan of it or not this is a fantastic deal where there has been much give and take and I urge us to not send it back to the salary and grievance committee and I have a question if I may Mr. Chairman for Alderman Boren if you say that your intention is to send this back so that it can be and you stress not negotiated but discussed it almost seems like there's a de facto desire to have it renegotiated and my concern is if you do that I believe Alderman Gish is right and we'll be ripping up this agreement and we'll get whatever we're willing to pay for with the union so my question to Alderman Boren is does he really want a discussion or is he using the word discussion to force a de facto renegotiation thank you next we have Alderman Ryan thank you Mr. Mayor I agree 100% with Alderman Gish I also was at the meeting with Alderman Gish and Pauk and this was discussed this is a good agreement and it seems to me certain members on the committee felt that Ed Surik did not have the authorization to come up with this agreement this is a signed agreement with the union it wasn't signed to be renegotiated it's signed to be accepted or to be thrown in the trash can if the council turns this down I don't know I can't guarantee this but we will probably end up in arbitration in arbitration you're not going to get any five-year residency acceptance they threw that in as a bone to the city they're not going to agree to that it's not even part of the negotiations they're going to be negotiating salaries we're going to be we have 24 paramedics they're going to be 48 paramedics they've agreed to 24 on this this is a good agreement but this is an agreement that wasn't wasn't signed to be opened up and renegotiated if it's not accepted it's in the garbage can and we're starting over I think we need to understand that just because certain people feel on the committee that they did not point to Ed Surik and say you have the authorization to make this agreement there's no reason to take a fine agreement and trash it so we need to pass this thank you we have one more thank you your honor just to clarify on this agreement I had a number of long discussions with Jim Scott our labor attorney and this actual agreement is not a trash or accept sort of arrangement the process works according to Jim Scott Scott excuse me is that if we refuse this document tonight as a counselor send it back to committee and the committee decides we don't quite like those numbers we have the opportunity to present a final offer as does the fire the fire union local 483 they have the option of presenting their final offer we put the two side by side and we work to an agreement and if that agreement cannot be reached then it would go to arbitration I'm sitting at your currently again as committee chair it's not so much that the committee was ignored and I think it was an honest mistake by Mr. Surik I think it was just a misunderstanding I think there's a lot of things going on with the fire department right now with the ambulance service and a lot of things going on with both departments so I think it was an honest mistake and it's not my attempt or I don't think it's the committee's attempt to go after Mr. Surik in that way so Jim Bourne and a number of other aldermen were at the salary grievance that the residency requirement came up and that's what spurred this entire document was Jim Bourne's residency resolution okay and the idea, the understanding Alderman Gisha and I had this discussion Alderman Heidemann and a few others that the idea was that we'd send it out kind of fill them out a little bit and see hey are we way off course on this thing are they going to ask for the moon if so we'll walk away because I think being one of the co-authors we were fully prepared to walk away from this thing if they were asking too much and I think it's the feeling of myself and some other alderman right now that they're asking too much so we're not interested but again we are where we are right now so we have to deal with the situation as far as what an arbitrator, what a labor attorney would agree and say this is a great deal or would give them their six or seven percent there's not a person in this room that I'm aware of that can predict that because we do not have comparables we have comparables that I got from Chief Listosky two meetings ago I think there's 25 there's a number of municipalities from around the state range from very small to very large not a single number in there refers to the actual salary amount for instance IF Eau Claire started all their fire slash paramedics fire fighter slash paramedics at $100,000 in Sheboygan already was at $100,000 for their firemen and we added that new responsibility an arbitrator might look at it and say okay they're already up to par with what they were paying their firemen so this added responsibility puts them at par with the rest of the state we don't have that $100,000 we don't have that solid salary figure to even work from so for anybody to stand up here and say well an arbitrator is going to give them this without even discussion or a labor attorney is going to agree with that but here they can say that honestly the numbers don't exist and I've asked for them but all I got was the smaller more incomplete number so leave it at that thank you Alderman Hussle we have two more, Alderman Ryan second time thank you what's getting your honor anybody that believes that the fire department is going to negotiate something that is more than this that they're going to when this is rejected and you're going to start over and say oh okay we'll go for permanent residency and we'll go for no pay increases it's not going to happen they came up with this offer to the city for expediency to get the ambulance issue moving to get up and running by January 1st and because they believe in the ambulance issue they want it to succeed they want the you know they're taking this on as a department I mean I did not vote for it myself but they are taking this on as a department and the rank and file of the fire department have agreed to this because they want the ambulance service to succeed they want it to be successful they want it to be profitable if this is rejected I know I can't say it for a fact because I can't predict the future they're not going to come back with something that's better than this they've done this to expedite the process that we can get the ambulance issue moving thank you thank you Mr. Mayor once again we have the chairman of a committee that would like to have it back once again we have someone else on that member of the committee who would like this to discuss again and I'm going to support that move again I think that if there's other concerns about that we should hear that now we've heard about they're not going to come back I'm going to walk into Schwagen-Servilae the cars were $30,000 and we're off for $15,000 they're going to turn me down if I want some kind of arbitrator or something they're going to come back and offer me some amount higher than that that's called negotiations and I for one would like to see what else happens they've already put on their residency this sounds to me like the minimum residency that they would accept that some stretch the imagination but maybe they'll take more I don't know I haven't negotiated with them yet we haven't offered them yet they've already missed us what kind of negotiation will do we not come back and counter offer and simply to say there won't be anything else I have no idea but I would like to see something else one once again we have not seen the actual comparison we've heard 4-6% based on what number 6% of $100,000 is a lot more than 4% of or a lot less than 4% of $200,000 what basis are we looking at that percentages can be faulty so if they don't have that agreement that basis then what are we really voting on 6% of what 4% of what second residence requirements I find it tough to believe that absolutely no city municipality, county, township has some kind of residence requirement that is permanent and now if we're going to arbitration they can probably look at that and say well other cities have that we need something more as this states someone who has been an employee for five years prior to hire can move out of town the day after they get hired so we still have the problem of then paying time and a half from when overtime from when they get called from their residency so I see areas that need improvement you know if the question is are we voting on this today or not no then I'm going to vote no on this one right now hopefully we'll get some more that's not the question the question is do we send it back to committee or not so I'm going to support that move and I would ask that we call the question is that a motion to call the question? there's a motion and is there a second to call the question? is there a second? second? motion to call the question because majority vote please call the roll Manny? Meyer? Montemayor? Rindflash? Ryan? Smith? for Hasselt? Warren? Bauch? Disha? Hannah? Heidemann? No. Ann Clioness? Fine. 8 ayes 6 noes. Motion carries the question has been called we are going to vote on item number 1134 by Alderman Verhassel, Montemayor, Heidemann, Gishe and Meyer accepting the memorandum of agreement with the city of Sheboygan and local 483 IAFF and that is a motion and second to refer back to salary agreements, salary agreements as committee. Thank you. Just a point of clarity. An aye vote is to refer it back to the committee. Correct. Yes. I'll reiterate that. If you vote yes you will refer this back to committee. If you vote no it lies over the way it's presented on the agenda. Please call the roll. Meyer? No. Montemayor? No. Rindflash? Ryan? No. Smith? No. Boke? No. Gishe? No. Hanna? No. Heidemann? No. Kittleson? No. Klein-Unis? No. Manni? No. Five ayes nine noes. Motion has been defeated. 1134 will lie over. Back to report of committee 7 by 1137 by our law and licensing Vice President Boren. Thank you Your Honor. I would move that the RC be filed. Motion to accept and adopt 1137. Under discussion Vice President Boren. We want to we want to file 1137 tonight. Oh you just filed it? Report of committee. Okay. We want to file it. There's a motion in second to file is there a second to file 1137? Motion in second to file 1137. Any discussion on that? All in Ryan. Thank you Your Honor. Just to make it clear to the council members here. This individual has withdrawn her application. So that is why this is being filed. Thank you Your Honor. 1137 has been moved to file. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. 1138 by law and licensing recommending referral of the three pre-applications for an available class B liquor to the full council for them to hear the presentations by the applicants as a committee could not reach a consensus. There will be a five minute limitation for each presentation. Vice President Boren. Thank you Your Honor. We have I believe two applicants here tonight to give us presentations and I'm going to call on first the 921 bar and grill. If you step forward please. We need a motion to accept an adopt first before it does that. Please use the mic and just hold on a minute. We do need a motion to accept and adopt that reporter committee though. Hold on. Thank you. Motion in second to accept and adopt. And then under discussion we have a presentation. The mic is on. And excuse me could you both give me your names. My name is Anthony Bray. Anthony. Okay please hold on a minute. Charlie McLean says we need to take a vote on the motion to accept and adopt and then we're going to open up the floor to these individuals to present for the final approval. So on the motion to accept and adopt the reporter committee we'll just call a roll call. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Okay now just to keep it closed would you please move to open the floor to a non-department head. Move to open the floor to a non-department head. Second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. The floor has been open. You've got the floor. And. Paulman replaced. I think we've accepted and adopted the report of committee. Are you seeing that correct? Yes. Is there any motions to actually grant permission to like or license. Do we need to come back to committee with that one or is that an appropriate time today? Certainly. There's no document now to actually grant permission which is why it was sent to me in the first place. Yeah I think that will be coming out of this discussion and this isn't to grant a license but to give direction to apply really so I think it's consistent with the document that is on the agenda. So if you look for a motion after the presentation. Yes sir. Thank you. Thank you everyone for your reflection. Please continue. Okay now I need your name. Anthony Bray owner of 921 Bar-N-Gro. Okay hold on how do you name this? B-R-A-Y. B-R-A-Y and the owner of 921. 921 Bar-N-Gro. Okay. And you will have let me get my little trusty thing here. Can I get your name also please? Jennifer Stengel. Co-owner of 921 Bar-N-Gro. Okay Jennifer is S-T-E-N-G-E-L. Yes. Okay and combined you will have a five minute presentation and I'll let you know when you're getting close. Great thank you. Good evening members of the board. Mayor Perez thank you for this opportunity to speak in front of you tonight. My name is Jennifer Stengel. September 21st or 921 of 1980 I was born in Sheboygan, Wisconsin. On September 21st or 921 of 1975 Anthony Bray was born in Newport Vermont and then moved to Sheboygan less than a year later. Between the two of us we have called Sheboygan home for nearly 58 years. Tony began working at Bikenski in 1994. He already knew he loved the sport so why not buy the business. For 11 years now Tony's own and operated Bikenski and thoroughly enjoyed helping the people of Sheboygan and its many visitors utilized bikes for recreation, transportation and competition. Through his many years with Bikenski Tony's been able to give back to the community by helping sponsor hundreds of charity events throughout Sheboygan County including PCW Cycling, the Maywood Earth Ride where he was also a board member, Co-Race Director of the Wigwam Ultimax Mountain Bike Challenge. He was a past board member of the Heritage Square Criterium and also original member of Fat Cats Mountain Bike Club an amazing donor of the Sharon Richardson Hospice House. My history starts about 12 years ago with my first job at Nicky's Pizza on Michigan Avenue. Since then I've had many jobs in the food service industry including Third Shift Supervisor at Country Kitchen which always kept me on my toes. And many positions at the American Club and Black Wolf Run where I learned the appropriate service standards for a four-star five-diamond resort. Most recently with our new adventure of 921 barn grill, I bartended and cooked downtown at a very popular grill. For nearly five years where I really got to know the Sheboygan people and how truly great they are. Through the establishment I was able to participate in Brat Day's Four Bar Fests, Fudsy Fest, Grape's and Gourmet which is Sheboygan's upscale wine club and the Rotary Concert Series. On December 29th of 2006 Tony and I purchased an historic building in Sheboygan, the Old Poth Meat Market. Having been vacant and buried rundown for the past two years we decided to put our time, money, sweat and hearts into this project. We've been doing all of the renovations ourselves with assistance from the proper licensed trades and a couple of close friends. Once our doors open we intend on continuing this trend by working as much as possible. Not only are we the investors but Tony and I will be the ones serving drinks, making lunches and entertaining the people of Sheboygan and its many visitors. A few other points we would like to bring up. 921 Barn Grill is a primarily minority-owned business. 921 is the only business applying that does not already have control of some form of intoxicating beverage license. 921 will be the first of these businesses to open. And Sheboygan's population is growing to the south. Unfortunately there aren't many new establishments to address the dining needs of these people. So in conclusion we would like to ask the common council for helping granting 921 Barn Grill the permission to apply for the remaining liquor license. With this help we look forward to opening the doors of 921 Barn Grill, not only as a restaurant and bar but as an upscale destination for the people and businesses of the south side of Sheboygan. Thank you all for your time and consideration. Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay, next we have, I believe, a guest, a vice president board, sir. Thank you. Next we'll have a presentation from the Fieldhouse at Southpere Spikes Sports Bar. Attorney Gasp, pick them up, sir. Thank you, vice president board. And can I get your names, sir? Sure. Dave Gas and Gary Poole, P-O-O-L-E. Mayor Perez and members of the common council and staff members, thank you for the time to present to you. Before I get started I know the five minutes is going to go so fast but I need to say something. We've gone through two law and license committee meetings and we were buying, there were three people buying for this and we had made a decision, our group had made a decision last Friday that we were running the impression there was only one license and we recognized that 921 was going to open before we would and so we were in support and we are in support of if there is only one license to grant tonight that they would get that license. We hope that we would get the next one. If there is another one available that would be great but we want to make that comment because we believe that they have a great product and they're ready to open up so go for it. What are we here for? Triple Play. You all know Triple Play, the building over in the Southpere. Who is Triple Play? Triple Play Real Estate Group of local investors. Gary happens to be one of them and Gary, the investors own the building, Lisa Land and we had an operator in there called Triple Play Fund Zone. As time went on and particularly around May and June it became clear that the forum that they were promoting which was the Fund Zone on the first floor and the Academy on the second floor just wasn't generating sufficient revenue to make all of the obligated payments. And it became clear that we had to do something different and at that point the Triple Play Real Estate guy stepped in and said we need to make a change here and they looked and studied real hard as what we needed to do and it became clear that what had to happen was the first floor had to become a remaining family oriented and the second floor had to become a multi-purpose facility. It was really pretty vacant. They say a picture is worth a thousand words so let me follow some pictures. Here is the upside down version. Here is the current building as you see it. The only thing that's different about this from what you see is that we would be opening or putting an entrance in the corner to get to the second floor and be redesigning the front entrance here and doing some internal things that I'll show you in a moment. Here is the second floor right now. The second floor right now this is here as is a big grass area if you've not been up there and this is all vacant. The idea here is to make this a multi-purpose facility with an emphasis on volleyball and then put in a sports bar here which would service this area and then be able to offer all kinds of sporting activities again with an episode of volleyball and here's another diagram that kind of shows a little bit more detail you can look at it later on in time to go through all of it. Gary has been real instrumental in this. Gary did own and I think now is the happy successor and seller of a bar or restaurant volleyball facility in Madison called Pooley's very successful very much like this and when Gary came up and we looked at this realized that that was the facility it was just ready for that kind of facility. So we're in that process of changing it over in order to do that there's a number of challenges that we have to meet. One, there's got to be physical improvements that are undertaken. There were some past issues that had to be cleaned up with the city and those are being cleaned up or will be cleaned up. Funding is another issue that they've been working on and we've got that all kind of pulled together. Another key item was a liquor license whether you like the idea of serving hard liquor or not the reality is is you have to have a facility a wide range of beverages in a facility like this. So that's why we're here to apply for that license. Our group, the investor group is really I think they're really enthusiastic about this. There are a lot of risks associated with this but as they've said a number of times the product is not going to fail for lack of trying and that's what they're trying to do right now is convert this as quickly as possible and get it up and the goal of this is to have it have a soft opening in October a hard opening before Thanksgiving and what's also to be critical to success of this facility is bringing people in from outside the city of Sheboygan if we don't get people in from outside it's going to be real tough. You cannot we're not here to recirculate the customers in town we need to bring people in and down there. So that's the reason the next license that becomes available to do that. We're happy to answer any questions if you have any otherwise we appreciate the opportunity to speak with you. One thing I should mention we also re renamed you might have seen that we're going to rename it from triple play to field house at South Pier here's kind of a diagram but it looks like the restaurant on the second floor is going to be called Spikes Restaurant and Grill a nice sort of appealing little image there. That's a part of the facelift and the change to bring the broader audience so I probably exceed my time. Five minutes. Thank you. They ran out of time so no. No this will be quick this was really a neat happening that just happened here here you had two people vying for the same license and I know the committee's been working really hard on this and here one says give it to my neighbor up the street and I'll take a chance on the next one part that does that and it's a risk that I feel and from my own personal standpoint isn't much of a risk because that was a very gracious thing your group did and that should not be left unnoticed. Thank you. Allam and Ryan. Thank you your honor I don't know if this is my position to say this but I guess that deed goes unnoticed we do have two licenses available I understand another license became available so there are two licenses available I don't know the details of it but as long as the council can vote to issue two licenses tonight according to returning the clean we do have two licenses. Thank you. Mr. President Boren sir. Thank you your honor. I want to publicly thank Alderman Ryan for some of his work behind the scenes become available so I want to thank you Alderman Ryan and also Deputy City Attorney Chuck Adams and also Madam City Clerk I want to thank them for their efforts also I want to make a motion to give 921 Bar and Grill the right to apply for the available liquor license. There's a motion to second under discussion under discussion I remember back over 30 years ago when I opened up a business in Sheboygan and I want to wish Mr. Bray and Ms. Stangle a lot of luck and the only request that I have is that when you're considering your tap beers for your establishment that you consider putting Guinness on tap. Thank you. Charge them double. There is a motion to second under discussion we have I believe Alderman Bulk. Thank you Your Honor I just wonder if it's appropriate to offer an amendment to indicate that the second group should be offered the opportunity to apply for the second open license and vote for them both at once. I think that'd be fine if you'd like to make that motion. Yes sir. Is there a second to that? Second. So the motion is to amend the previous motion to grant the right to apply to 921 the next available license be offered or offered to triple is a triple play again? No spikes spikes. Okay. On the motion to amend discussion on the motion to amend only Alderman Manny do you wish to discuss the motion to amend? No. Alderman Manny on the motion to amend the motion is to grant permission for both businesses to apply for both licenses then I would in favor of that but we can't really bind future committee or future council say the next available license we do happen to have two licenses is that correct? That is correct so if the motion is to change to apply for both current license available I'll second that otherwise I think it's probably inappropriate. I think that's what you're going to do. Okay. Okay. Okay. On the amendment all in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries now I need a motion to vice president Warren to pass as amended make a motion to pass as amended second motion then second any discussion on that Alderman Manny thank you your honor just wanted to share a couple of comments because of the situation it was very difficult for law and licensing through two meetings to evaluate well and to decide we had a split boat twice with Alderman Wongerman abstaining because of a friendship he had with one of the involved parties with the field house so it was appropriate to bring this whole thing here background issues though are terribly important and we need to reinforce those for the public and for the council as other folks will be serving on that committee in years to come number one we have a certain number of licenses when we give those out perhaps historically we've been too quick to do so we need to be choosy and not necessarily say yes to those who come to us if we have available licenses as a case in point by way of example 921 is doing renovation they're upgrading a neighborhood as they do that they're building a business that's adding capital and quality to a neighborhood that's the kind of businesses we want in the city that hasn't always been the case for people opening up establishments so I think we need to honor that and you can see their new place when it's finished soon if you want to see the quality of the work that Anthony Bray does walk into Baikansky because he redid that place himself with friends previously they upgraded that building as well so that kind of quality private individual entrepreneurship we want to encourage and value and licenses that go to small establishments I think in the future need to go to those who are improving and building the community and not simply opening the door with an establishment that's borderline the other issue I want to highlight is that we as a growing destination community are limited in the number of licenses that we have available with increasing numbers of out of town folks coming here hopefully and increasingly over these years to come we all know at least many of us know that state law is being considered and needs to be addressed to perhaps facilitate that kind of transition and enable such communities to have more licenses than we currently have available so along that line as we speak with our state representatives and our state senator we need to encourage them to look at that kind of legislation coming down the line to recognize the change in society and our changing position as a destination city thank you thank you all the way we have President Hanna one more thank you Mr. Mayor I just wanted to publicly thank both of the organizations for investing in our city I think both of the organizations are going to be welcome additions to the quality of life here in Sheboygan and I'm just it's so nice to see the competition to be part of this and I just am so grateful that this has turned out to be a a solution that we can all be pleased with thank you President Hanna okay there is no more please call the roll Montemay or Rin Flesch Ryan Smith Verhasselt Born Bulk Gisha Hanna Heidemann Kittleson Kleinis Manny I and Meyer I 14 ayes motion carries 1139 by public works Vice President Boren thank you just a housekeeping thing for the applicants if you would apply you need to apply with in seven days I don't think that will be a problem but just that you do apply with in seven days so that okay thank you 1139 by public works recommending filing resolution authorizing the motor vehicle committee finance committee and public work committee to study and report back to the council on the potential uses of some portion of the motor vehicle fund Alderman Meyer thank you Your Honor I move that the RC be accepted and adopted is there a second to that motion and second under discussion there is none all in favor say aye aye any opposed motion carries I'm sorry Alderman I didn't catch you would you like to speak yeah I was just going to ask Alderman Meyer if she could explain a little bit of the findings I guess from the public works committee on this document okay then we're taking a I apologize I didn't catch the light so Alderman Meyer let me click you on here okay thank you Your Honor the public works committee has accepted what the motor vehicle fund committee has put forward they were part of the motor vehicle fund committee also so they had input in the way we are going to spend this money and public works is fine with with this and it will be coming to committee of the whole in the future so we will have a lot of discussion on this okay you may want to stay standing up eleven forty by public works recommending filing resolution authorizing the public works committee to study and report back to the council on the various costs and capabilities for possible use in the city's park system Alderman Meyer thank you Your Honor I move that the RC be accepted and adopted motion in second to accept and adopt eleven forty heated discussion Alderman Verrassel thank you Your Honor again I'm looking just for a little background from the committee on this seeing that I guess I feel strongly from the standpoint shared a part for example we just invested hundred fifty thousand roughly dollars three hundred and seven thousand dollars in the surrounding area and parks and investment coming up we're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars and a little bit of research I've done into this says that a camera is going to cost somewhere between three to five thousand so I guess I feel strongly that we should go ahead with cameras but I wanted to hear what the committee Alderman Meyer please respond thank you Your Honor this money that we have we have found has come through Paulette Enders and it is grant money and they will be subject to certain criteria certain parts for this money and this is also going to the Park and Forest Recommission to decide what parks will be you know that should be used first for the money I don't think Alderman Meyer Alderman Meyer Hassell so if I understand right the committee the public works committee is not necessarily against cameras you're just looking to defer this to the CDBG funds is that hold on hold on wait let's not call the department as we're not back and forth here we're going to call the chair Alderman Meyer yes this money is going to come from the grant money and because we do not have all the money to put cameras in every park so the shared in park is definitely on the list for that type of grant money so like I said it will go into Park and Forestry and they will be discussing it Paul Meyer will be there our city forester and they will come up with recommendations as to which parks the cameras in and yes shared in park is definitely on the list to be looked at it's also a qualifying park from the standpoint of the threshold of law and modern income and that's how we got that 13th Street paid and the fence put up so the chances are very good okay anything else we have a motion to accept and adopt 1140 call in favor say aye any opposed motion carries ordinances introduced 10 1141 through 1145 lies over 1146 through 1158 to be referred matters laid over 11 1044 resolution number 90 0708 by Alderman Montemayor supported an application by Sheboygan County to the Sheboygan County non-motorized transportation pilot program to fund bicycle racks 1145 is basically the same thing would you like to take both Alderman Montemayor yes please I would move that the resolution be put upon its passage and resolution on agenda item 1045 be put upon its passage and let's hope that the federal government gives some of that knowledge to the county pretty soon well it's a county board yes 1144 1145 be put upon its passage second any discussion there is none please call the roll Rinforsh Ryan Smith for Hasselt Warren Bowk Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Cleonis Manny Meyer and Montemayor 14 eyes motion carries 1146 resolution number 920708 by Alderman Hannah Born Cleonis Bowk and Gisha authorizing a transfer of appropriations in the 2007 budget establishing estimated revenue and appropriation for contribution received activities and establishing appropriations for printing and distribution of the official statement for the police facility general obligation bonds President Hanna thank you Mr. Mayor I would move the resolution to be put upon its passage second motion and second under discussion there is none please call the roll Ryan Smith for Hasselt Warren Bowk Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Cleonis Manny Meyer Montemayor and Rindfleisch 14 eyes motion carries 1047 resolution number 930708 by Alderman Hannah Born Cleonis Bowk and Gisha authorizing a transfer of appropriations in the 2007 budget establishing appropriations for the purchase of furniture for the TV8 set President Hanna thank you Mr. Mayor I would move the resolution to be put upon its passage second motion and second under discussion there is none please call the roll Smith for Hasselt Warren Bowk Gisha Hannah Heidemann Kittleson Cleonis Manny Meyer Montemayor Rindfleisch and Ryan 14 eyes motion carries 1053 general ordinance number 2707 08 by Alderman Wangeman Cleonis Manny and Rindfleisch amending the code so as to regulate the pawn shop industry in the city of Sheboygan Vice President Born thank you Your Honor I would make a motion that the general ordinance be put upon its passage motion and second under discussion under discussion we had a quite a lengthy discussion about this issue in the law and licensing department from the police department and I would like to open up the floor to a non-department head if I could make a motion motion and second and I would like Alderman Zempel to just give an officer example excuse me officer what did I say okay oh officer okay yeah officer Zempel to just give us some background on what brought this ordinance about with a previous operator that we could all in favor say aye aye any opposed motion carries officer Zempel the mic is on it must be how I'm dressed well thank you very much I appreciate the opportunity to address you and I know this is something I've been kind of looking forward to so I'm kind of excited that this is about to happen I certainly want to thank the members of the law and licensing committee for I should also thank assistant city attorney Chuck Adams for his work and for allowing me to pester him for the last several months about this as well so I guess if you're looking for a little bit of background I'll try to explain the history behind this as briefly as possible and some justification for why it took place Wisconsin statutes require the licensing of pawnbrokers by municipalities and Sheboygan's current ordinance with little change since and I think it probably fails to recognize some of the changes that are taking place in technology and also the way that we have to manage and investigate property crimes as police departments and since our ordinance hasn't changed either we're missing an opportunity to better regulate pawnshops for Sheboygan I know that for me personally anyway the word that pawnshops are licensed and regulated is for the state and municipalities to provide consumer protection and to discourage criminal activity that this type of a business just lends itself to and until earlier this year I think the one pawn shop that we had in Sheboygan was I think it's fair to say the poster child for why regulation is necessary as you may recall TJ's pawn shop was an operation on Michigan the attorney's office cited the owner for over $104,000 worth of violations of our pawn excuse me of our pawn shop ordinance and also arrested him for a criminal offense it's a misdemeanor to accept pawns from a minor and we had a violation of that as well this effectively shut down his business for good but the problems at TJ's went much further than the violations that we were able to arrest and attempt to prosecute I'm assigned to our department street crimes to speak with and hear from a wide range of informants who provide information on criminal activity in the city we've been hearing for some time from a variety of sources that TJ's was not only a clearing house for stolen property from numerous burglaries and thefts around town but that the owner was also directly involved in trafficking drugs including marijuana and cocaine and was trading drugs for stolen property inside the store we also learned that he was selling cigarettes to neighborhood children for a quarter of peace we shouldn't have even allowed in the store since the sign on the door says no one under 18 we're bringing property into exchange for cash in one instance there was a 12 year old who took his family's computer without his parents permission and it was accepted to the pawn shop without much question even without these allegations the record keeping system kept by TJ's was cryptic at best and I think designed to frustrate law enforcement in the event that a stolen property complaint led us to his shop to keep several stacks of pawn slips out on the counter and in various letter racks on the wall nearby and the different stacks represented pawns that were current ones that were late ones that were making payments and yet another stack for property that the owner had purchased outright behind the counter and just by coincidence the day that I was there and two plastic shopping bags on the floor there were hundreds more additional slips which I were told were from previous years and were ready to go to the store's accountant I can't imagine what that job both state law and our current ordinance have specific requirements about the information that has to be recorded with each pawn transaction and for obvious reasons you want to know at a minimum who is bringing in an item for pawn just looking through the store's current slips on the countertop one day earlier this year we discovered more than a hundred unique violations of these requirements most of which were due to the archaic and wholly inadequate record keeping on part of the owner since Sheboygan is currently without a pawn shop I think we have to prove our ordinance and to potentially avoid many of the problems that we were dealing with in the past of course no amount of regulation will completely prevent the potential for criminal activity down the road but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't give our city the best chance at holding it off and I think that these proposed changes to the ordinance can reasonably and fairly accomplish that the first significant change is requiring pawn brokers to use the computer eye system called the automated pawn system it's a system that started in the Minneapolis area with their police department and which has been adopted by over 160 municipalities throughout the Midwest mostly in Wisconsin and Minnesota it allows law enforcement agencies instant daily access to transactions received and it's a cost effective way to investigate property crimes at a bare minimum it will be a huge step forward in the record keeping system for pawns transactions and be much more accessible for police to investigate property crimes agencies that are already using it report overwhelming recovery rates of stolen property some as much as 240% increase in recovery of stolen property and substantial reductions in the cost to investigate such crimes as well the second change in the ordinance that's being requested tonight is requiring a $2,500 surety bond from any licensed pawn broker this is I think a really reasonable requirement again because of the propensity for pawn brokers to be used for criminal activity whether they know it or not these actions take place without them really being helpless the city already requires bonding for contractors in order to comply with local codes and to ensure their performance of their contracted duties so this is no stretch for the city this is something we already do and our experience with TJs certainly demonstrates that in addition to the added protection for the city an extra incentive for the pawn broker to comply with the licensing and solutions to protect people from both the potential of underhanded practices by pawn brokers and from the atmosphere of easy money derived from stolen property that it can create if we remove the incentive of an easy fence for stolen property number one by giving law enforcement the tools to efficiently investigate these cases by improving the record keeping and number two by discouraging pawn brokers from engaging in such transactions number one because of the more a step closer to preventing burglaries thefts and robberies in the first place thank you okay I guess if there are any questions that I can help answer to I'd be more than happy President Hanna thank you thank you very much it's a great presentation just a question $2,500 in a surety bond was that how did you come up with that that number is that I would since I would be more comfortable I probably would too but that's a question I can't answer that was something that Attorney Adams had come up with thank you thank you Vice President Borden thank you this ordinance that we're proposing tonight is a model after one or no Claire so I can't speak for Attorney Adams but I would imagine that that must be a similar amount that's been being used in other communities okay thank you all sir so we have $10.53 $2,707.08 there's a motion in the second to put that ordinance upon its passage please call the roll very hassled no Warren aye Bauch yesha aye Hanna aye Heidemann aye Kittleson aye Clayunas aye Manny aye Meyer 13 ayes 1 no motion carries 1054 general ordinance number 280708 by Alderman Van der Wiel Rindvallis Ryan Serda and Kittleson relating to two-hour parking limits to add a two-hour parking limit Monday through Friday 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. except Saturday Sunday and holidays along the north side of Michigan Avenue near 8th street Alderman Van der Wiel is not here Alderman Rindvallis thank you Your Honor I ask that we put the ordinance upon its passage second motion second to put 1054 upon its passage under discussion simply under discussion this came up through a communication with business owner in the area that there's very limited parking for multiple businesses that require traffic so we're hoping to limit that parking it should be noticed that it is only during business hours generally at the 5 meaning that the residents in the area still have the ability to park at night without any further discussion there's none please call the roll boran balk geisha hannah heidemann kittleson clioness manney meyer montemayor rindflash ryan snitt anberhasselt 14 eyes motion carries 1055 general ordinance number 290708 by Alderman van der Wiel rindflash ryan serda n the existing 2 hour parking zones as follows the existing 2 hour parking zone 8am to 5pm monday to Friday except saturday sunday and holidays is extended to the entire south side of north avenue between north 6th street and north 7th street except that the existing posted bus stop remains Alderman van der rindflash thank you mr. mayor I moved that Excuse me, Gisha, Hannah, Heidemann, Kittlesen, Clowness, Manny, Meijer, Montemayor, Rindflash, Ryan, Smith, Rehassled, and Bourne. 14 ayes. Motion carries. Other matters of turning McLean? Thank you, Your Honor. 11.59 is an arrow by the City Clerk submitting various license applications for the period ending June 30, 2008 and June 30, 2009. That will be referred to law licensing. 11.60 is a committee report by Public Works Committee indicating they met and discussed RC number 1260708 by the Motor Vehicle Committee's recommendation and concurs with all the committee recommendations. And that will lie over. 11.61 is also a committee report from Public Works Committee indicating that they met and discussed Resolution 370708 regarding the various costs and capabilities of security cameras for city parks. That will also lie over. 11.62 is an arrow by the City Clerk submitting a communication from Robert Heimbrough, 1880 Development LLC, stating that they'll be doing a rehab project at 817821 Michigan Avenue and asking for assistance from the city, such as selling the city-owned parking to them south and slightly west of the above address, having some help with parking needs at 11.35 Michigan Avenue. That will be referred to finance. Need a motion to adjourn? Motion to second to adjourn. All in one bow. Thank you. Discussion to adjourn? I just want to offer to my colleagues. I think we ran a first-rate meeting tonight. I think that there was a lot of civil rhetoric going on. There were a lot of disagreements, but we disagreed like neighbors. And I want to thank my colleagues for a meeting of great content. There were some great procedural questions, some great questions of slippery slopes and precedent. But when we disagreed, we disagreed like neighbors. And I think we did some good business tonight, too. So thank you. Well said, all in one bow. Thank you very much. All in favor of adjourning? Say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Stand adjoined.