 Hey friends, this is Dan Burke. You're watching behind the scenes Divine Intimacy Radio So grateful to EWTN. Did I say I was grateful to EWTN? Really grateful to EWTN for allowing us to do this show and send it out over their airwaves and for all the good they do for the church really so blessed to have been an employee there for a long time and Now to continue the relationship by being on the radio just really really blessed by them So please support them Today, we're gonna be talking with actually Jordan Burke. My son is the co-host today He's been on a series on finding peace in the storm with Stephanie and I Stephanie's off gallivanting. I think somewhere is up. Is it appropriate to say she's gala gallivanting implies something negative? Don't know I thought it was a positive I think gallivanting is bad. I think so she's not gallivanting. She's visiting family. Yeah visiting her mom Who's been who's been struggling so really? Grateful for her to be able to go do that and so so it's just me and Jordan today and today we're gonna be talking about Finding peace in the storm The book he is responsible for getting in my hands. Well, you're the the Uniformity with God's will which I then wrote Finding peace and with some spiritual commentary, but we're gonna be talking about Desolation aridity prayer mental prayer all that sort of stuff and How to find peace in the midst of the storm before we jump into the show and we'll do that in a minute Want to tell you about one opportunity just one so be patient To or just skip ahead You can just move the little cursor It actually takes less time to move the cursor and skip ahead then right So at J. Homo Lenten retreat conversion stories in the call to prayer March 24 first of the 23rd It's an online event includes father Chase Hillenbrink Laura may Mary Phelps Christian Flynn Christopher Carstens Father Samuel Moorhead Simone Rizcala and many more spiritualdirection.com forward slash events spiritualdirection.com Forward slash events and you'll be blessed to spend an hour or so or a few hours Listening to some incredible speakers to help you with your lint. So with that, let's jump into the show And let me just make sure I'm on the right page and we were starting on 78 All right on your mark get set go. This is Dan and Jordan Burke. Welcome to divine intimacy radio Your radio haven of rest your hermitage of the heart Your monastery of the mind where we lift our hearts and minds to heaven To draw upon the wisdom of the saints to help us to navigate the tumults of this life And the saint of the day is who Jordan Burke? Saint Alphonse the gory Not according to the calendar, but according to what we're talking according to us. Yeah, he's the saint of the day Yeah, there's a different saint of the day today, but But for divine intimacy radio saint Alphonse the slaguri is the saint of the day And we're talking about finding peace in the storm, which is a spiritual commentary on On uniformity with God's will and we're on we're in uh chapter six, right chapter six. Yep spiritual desolation And um talking about You know a lot of a lot of this book is really about Fixing our expectations. Don't you think? Yeah. Yeah If you fix your expectations And you receive if your expectations are divine, let's say that If they're properly oriented to God and you receive what he desires to give you then you will have peace True or false True. Well, it seems like the majority of what we're what we're dealing with here is the lens in which we look at whatever happens to us And if you can change the lens or gain a new lens at how to look at whatever you're dealing with and whatever may come Then yeah, it's as you're saying, you know, you're gonna experience peace versus kind of The opposite which is not good and not fun Not good and not fun and to the degree I'd say In principle to the degree that we embrace what comes in our life, whatever that is Um And maybe the embrace isn't the right word To the degree that we do we choose In in essence choose What comes which is because whatever comes is either caused or willed by him well caused or allowed us. Yeah Then we are choosing his will that doesn't mean Which I think we've said over and over but it's worth repeating because people forget It doesn't mean that we don't seek to remedy ills or Pains that we feel or difficult circumstances. It doesn't mean that the perfect model of This kind of thinking is jesus in the in the garden. Guess how many you have a comment about it. No, I was just Picking up on where you were where I'm going. So yeah, because he says You know if possible that this cut past this hurts like crazy But you know, like no other man has ever hurt in the history of humanity, right? Um, but not my will but dying be done. So He's asking for it to be changed But he at the exact same time is saying You know, you know, what's best I yield, you know, and I'll I'll do what you asked me to do And so in this circumstance that we're talking about today Uh, so there's this book walks you through all different kinds of Things that can rob you of your peace in life and or your peace in your faith and this one is desolation Spiritual desolation. What is desolation desolation? and eridity either word um are There are synonyms what they mean the perceived absence Of the presence of god that's that's the commonality there between eridity and desolation and They and desolation in particular Cresses down upon you and and Christ it's push you away from god It puts heaviness upon you. It weighs you down. It's a lot of feeling and emotion. Mm-hmm. Yeah negative or dark feeling and emotion, right? So What st. Alphonsus is trying to do is deal with that and help us so he quotes Here's a few great quotes from st. Teresa of Avalos. She says our lot is not to enjoy god But to do his holy will another one love of god does not consist in experiencing his tenderness But in serving him with resolution and humility Another one gods true lovers are discovered in times of eridity and temptation Let's leave the last one for a second the first two our lot is not to enjoy him, but to do his holy will and And love of god does nothing consistent experiencing his tenderness, but in serving. It's fascinating about both of those Is it's not about what you receive. It's about you giving to god What does do and it's 100 counter to what we are taught culturally which you mentioned later on In your comments here, but it's worth. I mean a lot of people I think hear that and think I can't Understand what that might mean because we're so used to doing Something either for reward perceived reward or actual reward or you know for ourselves rather than for the purpose of serving Yeah yeah, and Basically, it's the opposite of narcissism or it is love our lot is life is not to enjoy But to do his will so our disposition isn't I need to enjoy this and I should enjoy this and if I don't enjoy this It's bad right instead of saying no whatever it is. It's his will and I need to You know, I need to join with him accept it or if I'm going to struggle against it I struggle with a light, you know a light trigger if you will or a light hand Recognizing he may want me to retain this difficulty You know, I've talked a number of times about my own illness and it's obvious You know that that at least So far I haven't been healed of this. Yeah, and so Then it means it's God's will that I have this disease And it means it means that I struggle and that I don't feel well and and but what I but my What my disposition toward God hasn't always been this way. I mean it's important to be honest Is that I need it from my salvation or he wouldn't allow it to continue. Yeah Right. So if I reject it now, I have the disease and I'm irritated, right Right and you're sinning and you're losing the grace that you would have had otherwise, right Which I think all phones just talks about a little bit later on. Yeah. So then so and then Love does not consist in experiencing his tenderness, but in serving him love authentic love is concerned with obsessed with serving giving of self to the other Self-denial for the purpose of self-giving. That's real love. It's called a ceaseless Right the the last quote from Teresa, which I also really like Is God's true lovers are discovered in times of aridity and temptation meaning Those who truly love God At a deeper level when they encounter difficulties Remain with him Right and they don't abandon him because they don't like what he's doing, right? You know, they don't if he doesn't give him what they want Then they don't go. Okay. I'm out of here or something that they don't understand Which we see a lot today as well where people are confused about something that's happening in the church or in their own personal lives And because they have those feelings attached to it and some of it may be objectively bad You know, they assume that God has exited the building and therefore they're going to exit Right. It's like dude, that's a that's so far opposite of what you need to be doing right now Yeah, you know on a smaller example and further. I think he's quoting Teresa or he this may just be him But it is important to lay great stress on the point because some souls beginners in the spiritual life Finding themselves in spiritual aridity think God has abandoned them or that the spiritual life is not for them Thus they give up the practice of prayer and lose what they have previously gained, right? So I'm curious So I know in in my own story of my reversion I when I first started learning mental prayer It was showered with consolations. It was just like every time I went to prayer It was just consolation after consolation. It was just flowing constantly And then a little bit later on and still still to this day. My prayer is very very dry. It's been dry for years And what we're reading in here And this is the question I'm asking you because you've counseled a lot of people But my suspicion is and this also comes from my conversations with a lot of people That as soon as prayer gets hard People exit, right? Is that what you've experienced as well? Yeah, I mean it's common. Well, it depends like in the average parish. Yeah I think you know in our community. No because we teach in a possibly VA we teach people And help them understand this and and the folks in AV or tend to be have gone at least through some significant conversion Those who have not gone through any kind of conversion Are often praying and this isn't a condemnation Or even a criticism. It's just a description They're often praying to get something from God Or bargaining to get what they want and if they don't get what they want, they're out of here, you know And and and these people are often good people like they wouldn't do that to their spouse or their best friend It's like give me this and then stand there And if you don't give it to them then go well to blank with you I'm done with you because you won't give me what I want, but what's weird is The one to whom we owe everything Nobody on earth fits that description, but the one to whom we owe everything We do that too. It's just crazy Yeah, yeah, so no, it's really common, unfortunately But one of the things that's really important and Alphonsus, you know speaks to this he's he's a big devotee of st. Teresa of Abba In and as he knows that when you when you stop practicing mental prayer It has a huge negative effect on your ability to understand God To understand yourself to understand anything The graces that come in mental prayer Can be can be had no other way No other way There's no makeup pill. There's no, you know, people uh This there's this big controversy now about this pill for people who are using weight that Also the people use for diabetes or something, you know And uh, so that but when you go off the pill apparently you gain the weight you had before And a lot more, you know So and it's apparently pretty dangerous, but You know, why do people do take pills instead of doing exercise and eating right, you know It it's that it's sort of that mentality. Yeah, they treat prayer like a pill And god or god like a dispensing machine, you know, I put in my stinking quarter I didn't kick that puppy, right, you know, I was nice. I used my turn signal Where's my stuff? Yeah, give me my stuff You're not doing what I want you to do. I'm out of here Like who does that everybody? Yeah, too many people do that. Yeah, but But alfantas knows that if you If you maintain that life of prayer It really aids you in understanding god and I mean and and like we always say Um spending time with jesus proximity with jesus is knowledge of jesus is Distance from sin. It's wisdom. It's perspective It's like if you were in the first century walking around and you're struggling with something and jesus is a football field away What are you doing? I don't know about you I'm going over there because he's the king of kings and lord of lords. He knows everything The world is in his hand. Why wouldn't I go and give myself to that? Well, let's see other problematic aspect of what we're talking about it or talking about where people when they choose to leave You know prayer or leave Whatever the case may be in times of aridity or desolation. It's fundamentally saying that I'm not getting my way which is one narcissistic and then two I can do it better than god Yeah, well, it yeah, or or it's saying You're terrible at being god. Yeah, right, right, which is in essence saying I'm putting yourself in judgment over god, right like there's a better way to do this and boy You sure don't know. Yeah, it's a dangerous dangerous place. If you were as smart as me You'd be better. So we better we got to go to a break. So when we get back We'll continue talking about aridity desolation mental prayer and finding peace in the storm. We'll be right back before we go back into the show a etch a homo retreat lentin retreat spiritual direction. Comfort slash events a course In the avalanche institute a graduate level course bible and revelation of prayer A review of prayer from genesis to revelation Dr. Alfonso pinto was teaching it. So Really a powerful course check that out many other courses to change your life avalanche Institute.org So let's head back into the show shall we So we're doing 12 and a half minutes this time Let's make sure I just did that on purpose to To loosen up the okay. I'll have to fix that Yeah, so Okay, and your market set go. This is dan and jordan berk welcome back to divine intimacy radio We are talking about aridity and desolation and prayer And that we should never stop praying No matter how we feel ever ever ever and if we do Devil's pretty happy about that. I don't know. Do you think the devil's pretty happy about that? Yeah, yeah without a doubt Yeah, one of the one of the several demonic principles is anything but god Yeah, and that covers a wide range of things But if in this case if they can get you away from prayer Then separate you from the vine in that way, you know, you're not going to receive the graces that you would Even if you don't feel them you're still getting graces, you know, they're still there And in fact, you know, I tell guys this all the time Yeah, I don't I don't feel anything in prayer. It's like I don't either but guess what? There's almost more merit in my mind at least I could be wrong and showing up when you don't feel like it Then there is when you show up, right when you're being showered with constellations Yeah, I've certainly heard that taught so that there is more merit When you yeah when you don't because it takes more will yeah more of an act of the will I think it's important to Talk about this aspect of all of these challenges Aridity stinks It's not fun Desolation feels terrible. Yeah So what we're not saying is that If you adopt these dispositions You you know, and even if you adjust your expectations like we talked about earlier That you're gonna feel just absolutely fantastic. Yeah, no not at all. That's not what we're promising It's not what Alphonse's Liguria is promising You know, Jesus Jesus felt The incredible pain and suffering he felt in the agony of the guard in the garden or In the passion, you know in his crucifixion. He felt it But there's a difference between those who are dominated By their suffering They have a victim mentality there and they they pile on irritation and rejection of God's will to that and so their disposition is one of darkness Rather than one of peace in the midst of the storm So you can suffer and be at peace at the same time, right? Have you ever experienced that? Yeah, I mean a lot actually there's stuff I can't talk about but I mean I've got I've briefly hinted at you know, some of the incredibly painful Unobjectively unjust objectively evil things That I'm having to endure Um, and I'm at peace with in that circumstance, but your heart still aches Oh, it's that doesn't mean that I don't have nights where I just weep Yeah, you know and days where I'm just like trying to hold it together. Yeah Because that happens. Yeah, but You know my my peace is not Dictated by how I feel right because I can experience those things and still know that God is working through those things And I think it's important too because if if you If you only focus on yourself if you only I could I could easily say this is objectively evil This is what's happening to me. This is unjust all of that would be true But what I'm not doing is looking at God and saying God, where are you at in this situation? Right? So when we're talking about this shifting of the lens of your viewpoint of everything What I'm doing is I'm actively saying like in the garden Lord, I would really love for you to take this away from me. You're well be done That is my prayer Right and people should be saying that like that is they Jesus gave you that example for a reason That is the perfect prayer for these situations. There's no better prayer Um, but when I'm when I'm focusing on God, where are you at? What are you doing? I'm I'm allowing myself and I'm opening myself to turn Instead of turning inward to turn outward and see oh look, he did move there This little thing was definitely him his hand is on it here His hand is on it here and then you start seeing more things Still doesn't relieve the pain But it allows you to know and have peace God is in control of all this if everything that I believe in scripture is true Then I need and then he's working somewhere and whether or not I see it You know, but the more you can turn outwards the more you can see it. I don't know if that makes sense It does make sense. You know the other aspect of this where peace comes in is that You stopped looking at people as political adversaries You know or enemies even if they act like it. Yeah Um, even if they are objectively your enemy and they want to harm you You you look at them and you think a number of things You know father forgive them for they know not what they do like Jesus prayed Or you you think well hurt people hurt people and But the whole perspective you have From this vantage point of luguri is God's at work. This person is in your life For a reason right What's the reason and how do you how do you join what he's trying to accomplish? Usually it's your own salvation and your own You know Your own, uh, I don't know Maturation or realizing, you know faults in your own in yourself But I but the but when we Rail at other people and get upset with other people It's it's just because we're not looking up right right. There's like no divine Element to the way we view relationships and and the people that God allows in our lives, right, you know, I I've I've had A huge a number of beautiful people in my life And some that did tremendous harm Even in my own home as a kid You know even even recently where you know folks will Make judgments based on limited information and Because they don't they're not disciplined to assume the best They assume the worst and when it's nothing even close to the truth and then there's no track record of that either Yeah, when there's no right when there's no track record either that's like oh, yeah, which makes work It's sort of more painful. It's like well. Have I not you know demonstrated Over the years that I you know, I'm I'm trustworthy, right So When and when have you seen me not trustworthy? Okay. Well, why why are you suddenly accusing me of not being trustworthy? You know, whatever whatever the circumstance where I'm just sort of making things up to mask the any details But the the the fundamental principle is there for me And and by the way, I've been that person for somebody else. No doubt, right same. Yeah Where somebody else is going why did god put dan Burke in my life? This guy is such an idiot and he's and he's really causing me pain and he's really bugging me and you know Um, I just have no doubt somebody has thought that a long way But you know, when you when you recognize his work, you think well The lord gave you to me and me to you and we're both supposed to learn something Doesn't mean we're always supposed to walk side by side unless we're married Then we are always supposed to hug somebody side But but I mean just it's it's one of the things I love about the word sojourner, you know And the apostolate be a community we have this concept of sojourners Or meaning people who walk side by side with us for a period but may not stay With us, but we will remain friends, you know regardless So so it may not be it may be that you know There's challenges and that the person isn't supposed to walk with you Forever and those challenges come to an end when they stop walking with you But while they are walking with you look up and ask the lord to to show you what what he's doing And then all anxiety is gone and then You know And then we're walking in a place of peace right but the other way is just too painful Yeah, I just don't like it What else does he say here that's moving to you anything else stand out? The time of aridity is the best time to practice resignation to god's holy will I do not say you will feel no pain in seeing yourself deprived at the sensible presence of god It is impossible for the soul not to feel it and lament over it When even our lord right out on the cross my god my god, why have you forsaken me? Right? And I think it's just a great way to sum up everything that we've said Yeah, I mean the the example of jesus Saying that about people who are Spitting in his face and mocking him and people just need to keep that in mind You know the time of aridity is the best time to practice practice resignation to god's will because it is so contrary To our feelings and emotions so contrary to our feelings and emotions If you can get that one thing in your head and remember it Like okay god feels really far It's probable that he's actually closer than he's ever been Even though I can't feel it. Yeah, if you're in here I can make a strong statement on that effect If you're a person of good will and you're chasing after him I can promise you and assure you that his he is present right and it only feels like he's not right, but it's you know I love the analogy that john of the cross uses And our producer has a new little baby as well named lisa but when lisa There's a point at which lisa needs to be put down You'd like to carry him around all day and because he's so stinking cute and he's got a great smile and he's A great disposition so you'd like to carry him around all day But a smart parent knows that the little one's got to be set down Why because he's otherwise his muscles won't develop. He won't learn to walk You know all of that, but the the first time you set lisa down I'm betting I don't know if the producer would agree with me or not His it's the first time you put him down and he and his face is toward the ground And he can't yet turn his head over or turn. He's crying. He's like, where's my I've been abandoned Life is terrible Nobody loves me. I'm alone where but mom or dad is just right behind him right Why why does he feel that way? It's because he he he's not able to see in the moment Yeah, and but we have to exercise by faith what we can't see And trust the lord and trust the saints in the way that they teach teach us that know You know probably in eridity Or especially contemplative eridity, but probably in eridity He's closer. Yeah, you know, and he's doing work in us That we need done a sort of holy spiritual surgery And if we would just say I trust in you Jesus, I trust in you Jesus I trust in you Um, we won't find the storms so scary Yeah, or so threatening or so disheartening You know losing we losing hope is terrible losing Faith is terrible, you know But it come we come we come by it pretty easily. So If this book is in this conversation has been a blessing to you Please go out to ewtn's religious catalog and pick up finding peace in the storm If you buy the book from them two cool things will happen one they'll send it to you And the other is you'll help ewtn that's certainly something we want to do And you can find all these previous shows out on spiritualdirection.com And we're just about the end of our study if you want to catch another show today Because we're live streaming now an ewtn pop over to spiritualdirection.com YouTube page And you'll see the part two of the next show But whatever you do, we're glad you're here and we're grateful And hopefully we're helping you in the interior life and in your spiritual life And uh with that we're out Until next time may the god of peace make you perfect in holiness May he preserve you whole the entire spirit soul and body You're approachable at the coming of our lord jesus christ