 My name is Nikki Dionne and I am the Program Coordinator for the Métis Community Support Worker Program, which I'll probably call MCSW for the rest of the interview because it's such a muffle. And my role is to support the students. I advocate on their behalf. I connect them to supports. I help them navigate systems. I also provide some funding support like child care and gas and grocery support. And I keep their kitchen and pantry filled on campus. Tonce, my name is Colleen Hodson. I'm the Director of Education for Métis Nation BC and I'm a proud citizen of our Métis government in British Columbia. And my role with the CSW program is to work a lot with the instructors and the curriculum and just talk about what that looks like and what the Métis pedagogy could be and is throughout the course. So a lot of work with the instructors and a lot of work with Nikki. Before I came on board, the Ministry of Youth and Collaboration with some of the other ministries with Métis Nation British Columbia conducted a gap analysis. A survey was sent out to Métis citizens and people on the MNBC distribution list. And basically asked things, you know, your regular demographics questions, but also what's the highest level of education you've received. There are a lot of Métis with a lower level of education. And so we wanted to kind of gather some of that information. And one of the questions that was asked was that if you were offered a program, what kind of program would you like? Would you like something in the sciences? Would you? And the resounding response in general was something in a support role. A lot of Métis are nurturers and want to help people. So they started a discussion with the University of Fraser Valley, who already had an existing community support worker program. And they started to talk about how that could be customized to fit for some Métis students. Well, if we're really talking about time, we could say that the relationship with UFE started many years ago. So I went to university at UFE and both my sons went to university at UFE. And I sit on the Senate and Indianization Committee of the University of Fraser Valley. So in my role there and working with the folks at UFE, there was an opportunity for it to build that relationship and to grow it. And so when we were talking about the program and then we were looking out, well, gee, where's a place we could host this cohort and who could be partnered with? And UFE came to mind. So the meeting started. The relationship was strengthened. And here we are. I don't think the original aim has changed. I think the general hope for this program was to provide an educational opportunity to offer to Métis people, but also to provide them with cultural support. A lot of Métis people, a lot, a lot of Métis people don't find out until later in their lives that they are Métis, unless they are lucky enough to practice through family members throughout their lives. And so part of what we were hoping for was to help what we call bring them home. And so to offer these cultural experiences to Métis people who maybe have just recently found out that they're Métis, as well as providing them with the skills that they need to be successful in higher than minimum wage opportunities. Again, because of the low level of education for many Métis in BC. So that aim hasn't really changed, but the delivery has. And so in bringing these students on board, it was quickly evident that there was a lot of barriers and a lot of skills missing. So one of the things that we started to offer were some skill building workshops as well as the in classroom and as well as cultural workshops. So we kind of added some in to enrich their experience. But that aim, I don't know, I think it stayed the same. I think the aim stayed the same. It was maybe just recognizing the needs and defining what those needs were and then responding to that in a way that would help the students. And although they're individuals as a cohort, there were needs that there was a commonality such as daycare and gas and food. So these things recognized, you know, and the amount of need, I guess, for each student. So then it could be met because without that, it's going to be difficult for them to focus on the program. It's brand new, never been done before, complete pilot project. We are in semester three of five. Yeah. So we are pretty close to the halfway mark, actually. Yeah. So semester one was summer 2018. And that was an opportunity for upgrading. So all the students, no matter what their level of education was coming into the program, were put into upgrading. And so that those that perhaps only had a grade eight level of education were able to come up to the standards required for university and to help those that maybe had that to brush up and remind themselves also what it's like to be in school. And then the fall semester last year, they started their foundational courses, the kind of getting ready for university courses. And then now they are in the thick of the community support worker courses. They do that for this semester. And then summer 2019, and then in fall 2019, they will do a practica in a community support worker role. And then they're done. Yeah. So the finish line is at the end of December this year, convocation June 2020. It's very hard to measure this program, one, because there's no previous measurements to kind of fall back on. And two, because yeah, like how do you define the success? So one of the things that me and our policy analyst and the individual that is on my team that's really, really good with evaluation and reporting, we talked a lot about it. And so what we ended up coming up with is we do have like a tangible, quantifiable evaluation that's conducted at the end of every semester. And in that we ask, you know, please rate your overall health in a number of different areas over the semester, financial, relational, cultural, mental, physical, and rate your overall satisfaction. Can you tell us what workshops were most meaningful for you all in a ranking system? But I also have experience being a community support worker myself. And so I know the importance of having that person to person interaction. So every semester I also sit down with the students and have an informal check-in. And so I have a list of questions that they get beforehand. And so I ask them things like, you know, how are things going? What areas do you need support? What areas are going well? What can we do to make that better? That kind of stuff. So I think that in the end of it, we'll see success as here was the baseline when they came into the program and where was the improvement. And then also there's the regular educational based success markers like grades, graduation, student retention. So I think that that's how we're going to know if it's successful. But it's a moving target. And their interest in cultural and Métis culture. Like so everything about it, whether it's language or clothing or food or everything, they seem to be really, they're reaching out. So that's that's grown from the beginning because they're feeling a little bit more comfortable with who they are. So now they're wanting to know more and they know that it's they can share that with their families. I'm sure when they go home. Yes. So it's it's kind of yeah. Well, and even just like through discussion with them, because I also interact with them quite regularly. But the yeah, the level of interest in being involved at the community level, we've had quite a few now who are very involved with their charter community in their in their town or wherever they live. But yeah, and also the involvement of children and you know, offering these opportunities to their kids as well, because they might might not have had them. So that was yeah. Yeah, so it's really that community, the community's supporting them and their families supporting. And that's not typical. But you would see in a program or have those expectations. So that's really different and it's really growing. Yes. It's awesome. I think it's fantastic. So and for me as a program coordinator in terms of having an impact, I think that if someone learns something about themselves, that's an impact, right from the you know, unfortunately, we have had students leave the program. But it just means that their journey isn't within the lines of this program at this time. But if having been accepted into the program began a journey of healing that was necessary for whatever else was in life, then I think that's a positive impact. So but still how is it how do you measure those things, right? How do you how do you measure human emotions and right? So interesting, I'll just share an experience that we had with the instructors here when we started working on that exact thing. So right at the very beginning when they were doing their first semester, we thought, okay, so I met with the instructors and that we had meetings and we sat there and we shared lots of resources and curriculum specifically me tea. And many of my own resources and resources that I've developed over the years working for MNBC. So we shared those resources and talked about them. And the first thing I recognized right away is the instructors were somewhat reluctant to jump into this and engage in it. And the reason why was of course they were familiar with it. It wasn't their area of expertise in teaching or sharing. So once they realized that we could do this together. And as we moved along just do it piece by piece by piece. And that there was no real wrong way to do it, which they absolutely thought there was. But once we understood that everybody has a different level of knowledge about it like everybody and everything. So and once we had that conversation and discussion, it just changed. They were so open and so willing to engage in it and to take resources that were there and develop lesson plans around and had always creative and amazing ideas of ways to do it. So it wasn't about me sitting down with them going this is how you need to do it. Here are the resources. This is what it looks like. It was me sharing the resources with them and going what do you guys think? And recognizing that they had all different areas of expertise in the resources and the stuff they come up with was truly amazing. It was awesome. So and then watching them build on that and do it. And then every time there was an opportunity to introduce more resources or ideas, whether it was math or English or whatever, it was, I got lots of ideas from them. Yeah, it was amazing. But I guess what was most meaningful was their willingness. Their willingness to invest in it. So they were coming from a good place. And the students know that of course, right through that. And it's their culture. So here we have people that are not Metis teaching this and sharing this, but it works. So I would say that the pedagogical process is still happening. I don't think there's anything that can be determined or definitive about that. I think it needs to happen in the classroom with the students and with the instructors, whether they're Metis or not Metis, or the people around them, like Shirley being a really strong First Nations woman and sharing her culture with them and that. So I think it's more than one thing. So but the process itself has to be collaborative. So no one person can own anything. And so the pedagogy of it is that this is our way of knowing, this is our way of being. And this is so an example I would use, I always go to my elders with this sort of work is that one of my elders explains it this way, when there's these issues over what language we speak as Metis, people will say Mitch of Cree or there's more French in it or it's all Cree. And I mean, I grew up with Cree and Metis, but I know other people that grew up with speak just Mitch of. So I asked her so I said, so how do we determine that? And she goes, well, I just tell everybody, this is just my language. It's just mine. It doesn't mean you have to have it. But I'm just telling you that it's my language and I just want to plant seeds for you so that you can explore what that looks like. And that was a great way to talk about pedagogy. And that's what it is in the classroom is just planting those seeds. They're young Metis people and different parts of their life and different parts of their journey and where are they going to go with it? It's not to be determined by anybody, but their own selves. So we can only do that and support them. They're going to end up in amazing places. You know, bringing that Metis information and culture into the curriculum, absolutely sharing Metis poems and, you know, how do you use math to build your Red River card or whatever, right? For sure. But one of the really incredible parts of this program is that built right in from the get go at least once a month. Oh, no, sorry, twice a month by weekly will offer a cultural workshop to the students. And that's a big portion of what I do is coordinating those days. And that includes reaching out to and getting securing the Metis elders to come in or the knowledge keepers and the artisans to share their knowledge to share their perspective also, because like Colleen said, Metis people are so different. And so it's really good for these students to get a multitude of perspectives to really learn that like, everyone is so different, but there's still a lot that is the same. Yeah, for sure. Right. So, yeah, and those workshops are just amazing. And we bring in, we cover costs for supplies, we bring in these knowledge keepers. And so they've done all kinds of stuff. They've had a day of beating with a Metis artisan. They had jigging and medicines with a knowledge keeper. They've, they'll be making compotes in the future, learning Machiff and Cree, hopefully going on a canoe journey, like just a number of different things that are in these workshops. And also they have Metis elder dedicated to the program. Yeah, like U of V has this really cool program of having elders available for students to access during lots of different times of the day. And we worked together to not just bring on more and more Metis elders, but that we have one that specifically focuses on these students and spends a lot of time with them. And I think that's a huge way of us. So yeah, it's and, and they're invited to community events. They're invited to MNBC events. They've come out and, and lent their experience and perspective to surveys and research and, you know, all these different things. So they're also participating in that way. Yeah, and I think the part that's really important there too is this connection to the community that this creates. So if you're bringing Lisa Shepard and his amazing Metis artisan into the classroom and they're doing beating or you're bringing Marie Berset, the elder that's there for them, or they're carving paddles with Patrick. When they're doing these things, Patrick and Lisa and everybody else are still out in the community. So now they leave and they go to the community and they see these people that were at the university. Yeah. So they're making this connection that this is the university is a community, the classrooms a community and the Metis community. And it's all connected. And I think I mean, from my own experience, that was never like that. You were very disconnected. I had my Metis community and I had the university and they were separate. You went to school and you went and did stuff in your Metis community. So now it's changing. It's all being part of the community. So I think that's just so key. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.