 All right, welcome everybody. We will wait about 30 seconds more to see if anyone else pops in and then we'll get started. I did put the meeting notes in the chat there as well. And don't forget to put your name in the attendance section of that document so that we know that you were here. And can sort of keep track of things. Let's get started here and we'll. Do a quick round of introductions for folks that are going to be watching the recording that may be unfamiliar and we'll start out with Diane. All right, well, I am the director of community development here over at red hat and one of the. Long time co chairs co conspirators on okay D and origin prior to that. So I think I probably have the longest running history. So if you have questions about why we did things the way we do. I'm probably to blame. So, yeah, welcome. And maybe D tree. Why don't you go next because. Okay. Hi everyone. I am working for red hat and I joined this meeting to actually, I want to contribute to okay D and just looking forward to understand things better. Yeah, that's all. Are you brand new to to red hat? Are you one of the new customer facing folks or where you land. I, I, I have been with red hat for five years now. I'm also the steam customer focused engineering team and because of that, you know, I'm, you know, learning okay D more. Awesome. Cool. We have a track for you. So yes. Okay. Excellent. And Michael. Hi, I'm Michael. I'm a technical writer with bread hat work on the open shift line. And I am currently the okay D liaison, I guess you would say. Don't feel new with the team. Hey, I'm Brian. I work for IBM, but here sort of as a hobbyist home lab enthusiast. And I'm running out okay D and at home. Excellent. And I'm Jamie. Who's a co-chair of the okay D working group and at the University of Michigan, where we have okay D running in a variety of capacities across the university. So let's jump right into the agenda item of current projects. And Mike isn't here to talk about the status of moving things over. Let me take a quick look at that poll request to see what the status of that is. Let's see. It's ready to merge. We can merge it. I think the last I talked to him, it wasn't. He was waiting for more feedback from the higher the Uber. I see. Yeah. So it looks like updated eight days ago. So we will put that on hold until the next meeting to see if we have an update for that. The Charter updates and placements. So the main group signed off on putting a link to the Charter in off of the main website off of okay D dot IO. It's just a question of folks. Notice that there's a couple of inaccuracies and some things that are outdated. So it'll be up to 1 of us or many of us to take a look at that. And look for anything that is outdated or incorrect and updated. So does anyone else want to volunteer? I'm going to take a crack at looking it over soon and also want to do give a second pair of eyes to help me out with that. I'll definitely take a look at it if you take a first pass and then tag me in it and any issues you have and then I'll review it. Do you have merged privileges on that repo now? I think I you and Joseph should. If not, let me I'll check and find out. We'll get that squared away for sure. Yeah, okay. Let's see here and update respective calendar invites. So I updated the main meeting 1. I haven't updated this meetings calendar invite yet, but I will updating it with a link to this documentation. And Christian did give me right access over the calendar invites. So I will update those and I noticed that actually that. I accidentally did it as HTML, which it's showing up in iCal funny if you're if you're importing it via iCal. So I will fix that so you don't see the HTML. That's that. So the next general meeting will have a discussion of install.md and then that leaves us actually to the last thing in our agenda, which is anything more from Brian in terms of inclusive language stuff. Take away Brian. Okay, so I did the review using the tools and created an issue on GitHub. So there are some things that we've got to do. A lot of them are going to focus around when we rename the master branch to main. And I don't know how the site is built what the pipeline is behind this. So, can I pass? But is that the okd.io site? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. So what I was going to keep going. Sorry. Thank I just want to make sure we're on the same page. Yeah, I just think we should be able to post the link to the pull request. Sorry, the issue into the chat if people want to follow. So yeah, so most of the issues are around the master branch being renamed to main. And this is all going to be synchronized and done as one sort of activity. So I say I don't know what the pipeline is on how the site gets built. And there are a few references within the site. So it sort of links back to the raw file on GitHub back to itself within the into the repo. And again, those are hard coded to the main the master branch needs to go and get changed to the main branch. And there's a couple of other things but nothing huge. So I'm not sure. Is that something within Red Hat that we'll actually look at that in terms of the tooling or something we need to do. I just went in and and you did talk about this at the. I didn't I didn't watch the video from last week. I missed last week. So it did get talked about, I assume at the last meeting. I just assigned two people Jerry Fala and Will Gordon. They are Red Hatters. They are the, the, the Wizard of Oz is behind the scripting and everything that builds this stuff. Joseph Meyer also has done some work with them. So I probably should tag him as well. Have a look at the issue. And Jerry is in the Czech Republic. So he's asleep right now. But and not quite asleep, but probably eating dinner. So it probably won't happen right away, but they're pretty responsive, depending on their workloads. And I'll probably throw a note in for for Joseph also to comment on it. Because I think they're the ones that have to actually review all the scripts in the back end and they they launched the automation that rebuilds the site. Whenever I crash it or edit anything. So they'll do it. We'll get there. So thank you for, for doing the work and you're going to make rich bow bow in there and the Ospo office very happy. They're trying to get everybody up to snuff. I guess the the following then is that we've got the open ship. Okay D repository. I think there's also a couple of other community ones that Jamie mentioned. I want to go and do the same thing with those. Yeah, so let's get this first one done and then the open shift one I think Michael Burke and the engineers are going to do that we don't. We can't make them do that they have to do it and they're. Yes. Well, thanks. We have officially switched to Maine. As of today. I'm perfect. Yes. Anything else to help with puppy to jump in and. Just any what I would love to see is more IBMers coming showing up. So anything you can do to cross promote there and get more folks from IBM. That would be wonderful. The other thing that and we've talked about this before, but since. D tree is, is it D tree? Is that how you say it? Yeah, it's pretty. Pretty pretty. Yeah, I can do that pretty. We have sort of a little bit of a training ground for looking for bugs in docs.okd.io that we're using right now and Michael Burke. And I have walked through it a number of times, but. One of the things we, we'd like to encourage the customer facing engineers and any newbies to do is to do an install of okay D somewhere on whatever hardware red hat lets you. Have access to whether it's AWS or whatever. And then as you're doing it walk through the docs.okd.io the latest released version. Of it and if you see anything and there are lots of things, especially focus, maybe 1st, because we keep trying to get this done. All of the anything that references rel core west instead of fedora core west or the wrong thing that those are easy lifts. And you can look in the issues. To see some other previous docs one docs related one for how we structure an issue. For docs we tag it in the subject line it has in brackets okay D and then we tag it with docs as one of the labels. And then assign to do a slash assign to Michael Burke and myself. Okay, D meal or 2000 ones you can look at any of the other ones. But if you could find a few of those and Brian. I'd really like to just get you to have log your 1st issue. Like Brian has done a wonderful thing here, you know, do for those and then with the new release that's coming out or came out 4.8. I'm sure there's things. Again, that we haven't caught. And then if there's stuff really missing in our documentation in the generic documentation. There's a lot of other documentations like the charter we were talking about earlier. And the guides we were talking about earlier, but I think for the brand new billions. Those folks, I think looking with a fresh eyes on the docs that okay D dot IO is really helpful. And it is a slimmed down version of the open shift docs with that. Michael's team has overlaid with some. I would call them patches, but I don't know the poll for it to build them is. Slims it down and re labels re edit some stuff. So we don't always catch everything. And we can always do better. Got it. Got a dine. I could go through the, I could do the installation and check to the docs. And if I find something, I'll raise an issue. Especially in the examples. So like when they give you something to cut and paste. Often that's like you'll see it doesn't say fedora for the operating system or something. Those, those are the things that. We kind of gloss over because we're looking at so many sets of documentation now for open shifty things. Okay. Sorry, I got a question on that one. When there's a feature that's called the open shift. Thing. Do we call it the okay D thing? Or does it stay with the open shift thing name? Because there was a couple of them I come across and the, on the overt sort of install part. And I just didn't know whether I should raise an issue there because it's actually like a feature that is like the open shift, which, which exists on okay D. But I didn't know whether we, we renamed it or kept the name as it, as it is within the open shift. Michael, do you want to. I can't think of one that comes to mind at the minute. Yeah, if you want to raise an issue and I'll take a look at it. Maybe that. To the right or hard coded open shift and we have a variable that switches back and forth. Maybe the right or put it open shift and should have been variable. But some things are named open shifts. Like a service like open shift, you know, if it's open shift cluster manager or open shift, whatever, like there's going to be things that will stay open shift because the actual component is called open shift. Or the actual service is called open shift something. So there are some cases where it would stay open shift. Yeah. It's, it's kind of a, you have to kind of look at is like, so if it's an operator or if it's a, I think of another example. If it's an operator or a service or anything like that that has open shift in the name, it'll generally stay open shift. So it's always best to file something that Michael can take a look at and then just to verify that that's the case. You know, because it's like the, the, some of the operators have open shift in the name of them. For sure in some of the, some of the services so I did post a new business item which is create a docs process document. If someone wants to take that on that would be awesome which is Diane has given the same spiel multiple times about how we go through this process. And it might be helpful if there was actually a document that says, you know, when you come across something like this file a ticket here and tag it this way, etc, etc. So, if someone here wants to take a crack at it that would be great. You can take a shot. That'd be awesome Michael thank you. I was actually asked internally to do something like that too so the things missing things labeled wrong code examples. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yep. All right. Is there anything else that we need to cover at this meeting we're only 18 minutes after but we covered our current agenda. I don't think we necessarily need to have a meeting just to have a meeting if we've gone through our materials Brian it looks like you have something. Yeah, there was that post that I put on the mailing list. 30th of June. Oh yeah that's right we were going to go through that yeah. Show your screen on Brian and walk us through it again just so refresh everybody. This might be a challenge. I've never done this on here so let me. I have got the right permissions and plugins and whatever else I need to do that. Worst case scenario. You might have to rejoin if you have to set security permissions to allow but. Yeah, that's what I'm. Google groups. Did that work. I've got to stop sharing button so there we go yeah we can see it very good we can see it yes. So it is that one. And this is probably like really really tiny. The same thing okay. So I mean what I tried to do is really. As I sort of got involved in the community so I mean the way I usually do it as I look for a few weeks just try and work out as a community works. And then I just sort of really make some notes on some of the challenges. I think this is a slightly different community because it's based on alongside a project, a commercial product. So one of the things that I'm still struggling with is as a community, what can we do and what are we sort of beholden on the product team to do. Well, one thing I did find is I looked at the okd.io site. And I just made some sort of comments on some of the challenges that I've seen and some of the confusion that I come up with. So it's probably this bit. So there's there's all these sections on the actual front page, but a lot of them point back to the same page. So as you're wanting to sort of go deeper and find out more, it's frustrating that all you're doing is jumping down the page to the next section, where you were hoping to maybe go a little bit deeper. And I think one of the issues is it's like there was a lot of places to find out where stuff was. So I mean, it took me a while before I found out the blog with the live install session that you ran, the workshop that you ran. And there's a lot of really, really good information in there. But it actually took me a while to actually get around to finding that particular blog and following it on because a lot of the technical information in terms of how you get started and was in that set of videos. I'm seeing quite a lot of confusion in terms of what we use to do what. We've got the Slack channel. We've got the this group. When I look out, people say sort of report issues and we've got a discussion section. We've got the mailing list and some people say go to Stack Overflow. The Stack Overflow should be gone now. That's a remove thing. And the Google group and the mailing list are the same thing. But again, yeah, no, no, it's this is good. This is what Russia is there about, you know, I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, go ahead. Go ahead. I mean, the one thing that that I became very aware of is we've actually we're actually supporting two communities, two different communities were supporting the users that need help. And I don't really want to come in and be part of the sort of the inner group that wants to help and contribute. But then we've got the second community that want to contribute. And at the minute we seem to have everything mixed up. And it's not clear on where do I go to sort of talk about, I mean, I'm interested in what's going on with the operators. I'm longing to get pipelines working on OKD without having to put the so there's things like that that I want to contribute with. But a lot of this, the posts are about people getting stuck and wanting support. And it really goes back to the conversation probably about a month ago where Jeremy was looking for where to put the how to be a good sort of community member sort of information instruction. And I actually think that it would be useful to actually have a support and maybe a community, a contribution community or something separate the two out and have something. Yeah, I just decided I just put it into a post in terms of where I sort of got stuck or was confused about things. And I'm going to add another one to the list is the actual OKD.io the technology that that's using. No, it's not. It's a YAML based framework. And yeah, it's, it's, it's what I, yeah, so I have to say I'm very Buddhist about the site and maybe to Buddhist about it. I love to let other people edit and do it. And I practice non attachment. To this site, which I do take all the blame for I basically created it out of nothing. So, yeah, the framework that's under it. I've had a couple of iterations of it. Joseph Meyer, who is now not coming to the docs meetings, did an update to at least get it to the latest versions of the things that were used the frameworks and things, which was a good help. There's been a little bit of background stuff inside of Red Hat to maybe port it over to Drupal, but there are no resources to help with that. So, and anyways, long story short, I have the two people that I tagged in your inclusive language thing, Will Gordon and Jerry Fala, who are sort of assigned and resigned to helping me keep it, keep it alive. I am not adverse to moving it to something else. That's really not a problem for me. It's just mean, you know, ongoing maintenance and love and care for it is has been, it's been the thing we don't have a lot of resources on it. Okay, because I have used a technology that I ported another community within IBM over to, and I believe the K native community are looking at as well as investigating MK docs. It means that once you've got your templates and CSS set up, or documentation is marked out for your markdown. So to actually write content, even if you're not a markdown expert, you've got about five minutes of learning the half dozen syntax features, and then you can write documentation. It's just when I looked at what Mike had done, you need to be a full and sort of front end web developer to add content with that. So again, if there's anything that we can put up like a beta site and let people have a look at it, I'm happy to maybe do that. Yeah, no, we definitely could do that. What I would suggest is like some of these things that you're suggesting here. You're welcome to make it, if you make an issue, I will merge it, or I think Jamie now has merged privileges. If you make an issue against the okd.io repo, which I think you can see and do. I'll definitely accept the merges and do that. Some of it is, yeah, the framework that I'm using is not optimal. And a more doc space one. There's always one Porter SH. I think it's Porter SH is my go to example of what I think is brilliant. Let me see if I can find that one. Porter dot SH. Because I noticed the tool that's the catalog source builder. It's a red hat project. I noticed they were using a different technology. I'll just throw this in the chat. This is this is if I had a fantasy land and I'm not sure what's under the heat here. This is the website. The woman who runs this, the docs for here is also in the cube contributor project as well. So she's doing some other things and she's just done some brilliant stuff. And that's my fantasy life that we have enough resources to do something along that lines hasn't happened. But I'm quite willing to work with folks to move it to something there. What was the link of the site that you did for IBM? If you go to cloud native toolkits. Or one word. Too many browsers open. I'm trying to work out. Is it a what was it? Called cloud native toolkits.io. Dev. Yeah, link is in the chat. Okay, thank you. I cannot type. Oh, there's no s on the end of it. That's why. Oh, that looks very IBM blue. Yes. We had to, we had to. Change it, but if you go to. MK docs. Yeah, I don't know what the portal. I'll have to ask what portaries on your the hood. If you go to MK docs.org. This shows you what the templates can do. So if you just look at that, that's the same underlying technology, but just with a different template applied to it. So you can actually change it to what you want. But the good things are. You get a good menu. You get in page navigation. And then you get a full site search. And it's all a static websites. Wait, is this the same stuff that Ansible documentation uses and a lot of open source. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I've seen this. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, this is very nice. It looks. It looks less like a. Landing page for a project. I'm like, if you look at some of the GitHub landing page people and more to me, like documentation. So, yeah, now, if you look at what we did on the cloud native toolkit, we created a custom template just for the front page. And when you click into any of the documentation, you come into a more documentation site. Okay. Because they wanted the front page to look more like the projects opening page. And then after that you go into the documentation stuff. So it's it is customizable. And if this is something that we feel is a better direction. I'm happy to do. You get it working. The other thing is. Yeah, so my preference, I mean, I like it. I like anybody doing organizing reorganizing the stuff and making it more usable, but something a little bit more welcoming. And that's I think what I like about the Porter one is that it has the what is stuff it has how to get on the landing page thing and if you take a look at that. It's, yeah, I mean, I'm sure the CNCF paid her to do it. And she works over at Microsoft. And now I cannot remember her name to save my life at the moment. And she came to a meeting actually. Yeah, early winters. Pull things back a little bit. So we're sort of focusing on the technology right now. One thing I think would be helpful to talk about is this division between or the boundaries between the working group, the community that's sort of around the working group, and the larger community that's the users. I don't think that that's well delineated. One of the things, for example, is the Google group and we talked about this, I think at the last meeting is to the Google group. I, well, it seems like the working group needs to have a communication channel for working group stuff. I sort of thought that's what the Google group was about. But we're seeing support questions getting posted to the Google group. That to me seems like we should instead have a Google group that is, or in addition, have a Google group that is like OKD support or OKD community or something like that, as opposed to OKD working group. Yeah, the, I think with Google groups, we could create another Google forum that was OKD working group dash docs, another one that was dash support or answers or whatever we wanted to call it. But the theory behind having just the single one is because we had so many limited resources, people would be having to watch all of these different spaces and keeping everybody in one. And in the beginning worked OK. And moving people who were asking support type questions over to the Kubernetes Slack was what we're trying to do is that if people were asking support questions to make them nudge them over there. And that's kind of where I nudge everybody. And like, I have to monitor the Facebook OpenShift stuff, you know, at all, you know, LinkedIn, you name it and trying to get them all to one place. It is easier for me and for, I think that, but I think, I mean, you're right, there's got to be some segregation of threads about support. So maybe we could look at the Google group and create a forum within there that Google group that was just support questions. And then one that was docs question. I think you can do that with Google groups. I haven't tried or played with it, but with the same Google forum just creates sub topics or sub forums. I'm sure I've seen that done for other groups. Yeah, I think so. I'd be happy to poke around for that. I don't know that you gave me access or not. I don't know. But I'd be happy to poke around and poke around and then we can just we can do one on one and create those. If you don't have permission, just ping me and Slack and we can do it. I just think that would be good because we're. It's things are getting a little bit mixed up and it's hard to wait through sort of support questions. And want, I want to use it to post like group, like working group related stuff, but then it sort of gets buried with the support questions. I think that sort of gets people sort of disconnected from it. Yeah, the other. Oh, go ahead. Well, I was going to say, and these customer facing engineers like you three here, we can get them to monitor the support as well. Like, so there's about, I think there's 60 of you or some crazy number of them that are being on boarded into the customer facing engineers. And this is there's wanting to use OKD as their training ground and to inspire them to be more open sourcey, which we like a lot at Red Hat. So maybe what we, if we separate it and then we can throw some of the customer facing engineers to the wolves. But really the, the traffic we've been trying to direct it to either OpenShift Dev or OpenShift users in the Kubernetes Slack. Because then it's not just the OKD working group that's looking at it. It's the broader all the OpenShifties, all the flavors of them. Those engineers are there too who can pop in and answer a question. Yeah, and it may be helpful to look at the way that we label things. There's, you know, the community link sort of is split into stuff related to sort of support and documentation. And then also the working group, like connect to the community is actually working group stuff. But I don't know that the working group is the community so much, right? So there's the user community and then there's the working group community. So it might be better or helpful to tease that out as we modify the website to make that a little bit clearer. Yeah, I also noticed that on the OpenShift Dev Slack channel, we actually say for OKD technical support, visit the community working group forum. So we're sort of saying for technical support, go to the forum at the top of the Slack channel. Oh yeah, that's problematic for sure. And Diane, do you know if that process of joining the Kubernetes Slack and getting into the channel, has that all been resolved in terms of now folks can just click the link and register and get in because for the longest time that was broken. Yeah, you still have to request access to Kubernetes. The CNCF has a little gatekeeping about that. So that's not an auto-join. I do own the OpenShift Common Slack. So if for some reason we don't like that, that's too much of a high gate for people to fill out that form, then I can always create a forum and a Slack channel in the OpenShift Commons one. But again, that's yet another thing for people to monitor and get notified by. So the fewer, honestly, the fewer of them, the better, even if there's a few collisions. But I think the OKD working group Google forum, I think we can fix that. Yeah, the other thing is, as I would say, recipes and guides seems redundant. Yeah, I put a note that recipes probably can be dropped now that we've created the guides. And that was an attempt earlier to do basically the guides in a different form. And I think another useful thing would be to try and get Vadim to do a presentation on something on how to actually do a build. And then let someone document that. So if Vadim can do a technical demonstration and we record that or we can then document it. Because again, I think I looked at some of the sort of first issues or sort of good first issue. And one of them was about memory. And it took me forever to realize that the OpenShift installer for OKD is actually in Vadim's gate repo. It's not within the open source gate repo. So I only found that out by, I think it was in one of the videos. And I only noticed where he was actually poking around in gates. So we actually don't say that anyway. So just having a technical. Is that documented anywhere in the guides, Jamie? I do not think so. And there's, Vadim had talked a couple of months ago about wanting to provide more documentation on like building the installer and people being able, because like Joseph, in fact, had wanted to do his own install tweaked to his liking. And we don't have documentation on that. So there's a little bit in the repo, but there's nothing that's a sort of step by step, how to do it type thing. And we could do that. And that would also encompass where does it live, right? So we could kill like three birds with one stone. If you can frame outline, maybe Brian and Jamie, what it is you want him to cover and feed it to me. And I can, I can record it on Mondays. I do AMAs with upstream project leads as part of OpenShift Commons. So I can get him to just do a session on that sometime in August. And then we can get it transcribed and then feed it back through the docs group here to turn it into some form of either a .md file or in addition to the guides section. Or maybe even incorporate Michael into the docs.io in a real way. Yeah, look at that scared look. But yes, so if you can give me enough meat about what you think he should cover. We try and protect Vadim from any extra workloads. So the clearer we can be about the steps we want him to cover. And that thing that is in his own repo probably shouldn't be there. We should be able to pull it into something. But we have a lot of things floating around in Elmiko's repo and Vadim's and Charo Groover's and Joseph's. And, you know, there's a lot. So there's a lot of, you're in the right place, Brian and D3. There's a lot of work to do. I mean, for me, that's one of the best ways to learn to get involved with the community. Get someone to do a video presentation and then you write it up because by writing it up, you need to go and get the details right. And you then go start exploring. So I'm happy to do some of that work. I'm happy to pay to get it transcribed so that you're not trying to transcribe it. That's easy to do. There's tools, easy tools with YouTube to do that now. So if we can figure it out and then make the ask and he will be, he's in Europe, so he will be on better vacation time than me here in Canada. But I don't know when he's planning on taking them, but I hope he is taking them. But yeah, that's a brilliant idea. I thought he has done a video on that though. There's something niggling in the back of my brain. Sorry. No, no, no, he did an overview for the. What talk to it was the first sort of big talk that we did this year in February or March. Park review where the guides come from. He did a technical session in that and on that day. But he didn't cover enough to enable you to do it yourself. He actually pointed some key highlights, but didn't quite go far enough to actually how the process works. But I got a lot of information from that one video. All right, we will then most definitely loop that and Brian and I will work on that. And Brian and I also have a shared desire to see pipelines in OKD very soon. So we'll find out and that's the other thing that needs to happen is I would like to work with Vadim to get a clearer sense. He did delineate the operators a little bit better on Christian's issue, which listed all the operators that need to be moved over. But there's not a clear sort of explanation of, OK, this one actually needs some development work on it or we need to approach. You know, the folks that are hosting it currently and have them do a bit like it's a little bit unclear still on some of those what needs to be done, except for the ones that are in red hats. And so it's clear that those are actually there's something Vadim said something about pipelines and for eight or four nine. I guess that something was going to change and I can't remember what it is, but it might be that pipelines will be made available for OKD directly. I don't know, but we can ask him about that. I guess, I guess the first thing is is how do we go and add a new catalog source that gets added as part of the OKD installer that we can then start adding operator bundles into. I think having that that that first bit of infrastructure. Then means that there's a way of then adding an additional operator bundle into it. And I mean, some of the operators, I think they they should go into operator.io. They're actually community operators. They're not an OKD operator. They're a community. But things like pipelines, GitOps, we want to do storage virtualization. They are all red hat like things. All right, Brian, did we cover everything from here? We kind of we're all over the place, but did that cover your document and. Yeah, it really is in terms of helping people feel like in onboard quicker. And removing some of the confusion about. Where do you go for walks and yeah, I think we covered it all. Yeah, there was one thing that it predates you by a couple months is when we did. Start working on the site revamp last winter. There was a a. There was feedback from Vadim and Christian about or I should say against using the word support. In our website and in our documentation because it gave the impression that. People were entitled to something by using OKD were entitled to support in some fashion. And so if we can think of a better word than that. That implies like. Community support or something like that, then again, I would go back to sort of the, um, the porter.sh site and maybe the helm site. As well to see what the verbiage is that they use because they are open source projects that don't really. Have a supporting thing behind them. So I, and I'm just going to peek. Again at Porter and see which, but they I just personally. Yeah, so there's install quick stock community learning and docs. On the Porter site and I think under the community. Talks about engaging with the community. As opposed to getting support from the community. Using the word engage to ask questions show off something you've created collaborate with others troubleshoot something you. Or as a bug yet and just say hi to introduce yourself. And then it says at the bottom of it that bug reports should still be. GitHub issues, but for the rest start here and get the conversation going. So, no, there's. Oh, go ahead. Their thing is they really don't say the word support. And that's that's kind of. One thing I do want to draw people's attention to that I actually agree with is if you look at the sentence second sentence. On their community page. They say we prefer it over slack because people can more easily join in on conversations over time and find answers to their questions. That's actually something that I agree with and so when you mentioned that there was an emphasis to move people over to slack. That's always been sort of my concern is that slack it it just flows so fast and people will ask the same questions or there isn't. An institutional knowledge that gets built up or a community knowledge that gets built up on slack. So just something to think about. I'm just going to look at what the helm site is. Yeah, it's a good point. I'm just trying to see what helm has because helms the other one. I think it's helm.io. Oh and they just use the discussion section so that's interesting so Porter just uses the discussion section of GitHub of their GitHub repo. We could do that. Yeah, because that's sort of what Vadim was directing folks to use anyway. So instead of pointing people to the Google group or pointing people to black, we could point them to the discussions, which would allow things to get tagged. It would allow questions to be listed as answered or not answered, etc, etc. Here's the here's the other one. And again, they, I'm just looking here to see if I can get the. Yeah, this is so simple. Yeah, but as simple as good, you know, it's this I think this is generated from GitHub. I'm not sure. You see their community link for helm goes to their discussion section or actually, well it goes to their issues, but it's still it's it's yeah, much less of a hurdle than joining the slack. Yeah. And you know, I'm, and then slack just becomes helm users, you know, I found that. Okay, cool. Thank you. Cool. All right. I'm. So those and compared to the cloud native toolkit site, which I really like. Like if you look at helm docs, or even docs dot okay D dot IO, they have that, that same. Same look and feel as your site does for that native so. For the cloud native toolkit. So there's a distinction between how we structure docs and how we create a welcoming landing page. That's easy to navigate. So that's I think what I tried to do with okay D dot IO is create that welcoming landing page and then push people to either docs dot. Okay D dot IO, which is the, you know, pretty good stuff, but not great. And, you know, do that. So the cloud native toolkit. Look and feel is for me is kind of docs heavy. But if you can customize that the landing page to look more like. Elm or the Porter page, then. You know, Bob's your uncle and we're happy with that. Yeah, I mean, we could even take the CSS. It's on okay D dot IO and put it within the landing page. What are the steps that would be needed to set up for Brian to set up an example and for us to get DNS to point to it. You know, like beta dot okay D dot IO. Yeah, I mean, the way we did it for the cloud native toolkit is we just use GitHub pages. We've got a C name redirect into beta. So if you go to beta dot. That's exactly what you get you go to get GitHub repo that uses GitHub pages. We use GitHub actions to actually run the script to convert the markdown to the static site. I'm totally fine with it. It needs to still have the footer on it and some of the branding with the panda and stuff like that. That we have on the okay D dot IO site and then Diane needs to be trained on it. But the more we can have something that's not like the YAML base. And when you see the CSS, don't yell at me. I mean, what I can do is I can have a go at just creating a get repo in my own personal. Have a go at creating that landing page, putting the docs behind it and happy to invite other people in if they want to play around with it as well. And we can set up a beta site. And then when we're happy within the docs working group, you can then sort of communicate it to the wider working group and get their feedback and And then it would be when we get to that point, Will Gordon or Jerry Fala can do the redirect for the DNS for us as we need it done. I don't think they will, they will not be disappointed to lose having to maintain the site with me. The OpenShift Common site is the same framework and so is project quay.io. So those are the three sites that I have been given the keys to the kingdom for trying slowly with commons to do something similar to what you're doing. But it's probably going to end up in Drupal, which is what it started out seven years ago as. Okay. Well, I mean, the great thing about this is you can just let GitHub actions do everything for you. So a push means that there is no maintenance once you agree a push the site auto generates and publishes itself. Yeah, I would love Brian, I would, you know, you know, yeah, free t-shirts for everyone, you know, whatever, you know, we've got that. Okay, I'll take a look at that to see what I can do. Thank you very much. And let's can we formalize your email so that we're not going back to the email like maybe put it as an issue or something like that in the or a discussion item in the in the OKD repo or in the. So, if you do that, then that way we're not digging for an email thread and we can actually like break it down and assign people and things like that. And again, this is me not quite knowing where I should have put it. No, no, no, it's it's it was a great start and we just go from there. Yeah. Yeah. And you've been doing great stuff contributing by the way, this is very helpful. Discussion item or an issue. Let's do it as a discussion item. I think because then that that that does that again puts it where we put our money where our mouth is say where we want people to go for community stuff. And then we can work through all of that. And yeah, that's that would be a great start. And I'm looking forward to getting off editing YAML files. All right, do we have anything else that we need to cover? It seems like we got a lot of work ahead for us. And, and Jamie ping me when you get a moment free in your schedule and we can walk through the Google group thing and see if we can figure it out if you can't if you don't have permission. One, I have to get you permission and two, I will just do it on the fly. I'm sure there is a you can Google it how to fix that. Thanks. All right, folks. Thanks. All right, take care. Bye bye. Take care. Bye.