 There's a tremendous amount of pride in somebody becoming a monk in Thailand. In fact, when you become a monk in Thailand, you are seen to be a superior human. So you're actually considered to be something above human at that time. And welcome to another episode of Amir Approved. Our special guest today is Garth Sam. Garth Sam is a former Buddhist monk, a teacher, actor, rapper, DJ, law student, entrepreneur, writer, global humanitarian, black belt martial artist, Renaissance leader, and his current focus is an international life coach that is dedicated to the evolution and growth of men. Now, before we continue, a couple of house cleaning notes. Number one, guys, if you're listening to this on iTunes, please leave a review. The more reviews we get, it helps push the show up. And of course, I'm giving away $20 in Bitcoin for the best review. And if you're listening to this on YouTube, please subscribe and comment. Without further ado, I welcome Garth. Thank you very much. Garth, man, how you been, brother? Fantastic. Great to see you, as always. As always, man. We enjoy our time together, and I'm happy to be here. Thank you. Thank you. I'm happy to be approved by Amir. Well, you and I go back, man. We do go back, so that's a good thing. And how I like to start this conversation is, I actually never sat down with you and had this discussion with you about this. There are so many things we have to talk about. So many things, especially when you just show me your new bio, I'm like, I gotta condense this. It's a lot. Let's start off with the history of you and being a monk. How did that all start? Yeah, strange tale. So it actually begins in 2000. 2000, I was in Asia. And in the course of that traveling, I wound up in Thailand. And while I was in Thailand, a number of serendipitous factors saw me connect with a very interesting and important spiritual master in Thailand. And in the course of being kind of mystically interviewed by this individual, he offered to take me under his tutelage as for lack of a better word to describe it, a sorcerer's apprentice. I mean, that's kind of a weird thing to say. And Harry Potter was really big at the time. So it was kind of interesting for me to feel like I'm kind of living that life in a real time, in a real place. So I was the first foreigner that he had offered this opportunity to. And because I'm very interested in human potential development and eclectic studies about what we're capable of doing and understanding, I took it upon myself to take on that challenge slash opportunity and spent a number of months studying with him and his son in Thailand. And what I learned at that time was not so much about the mystical arts, which was main focus. And nor was it my real interest to learn how to use mysticism as a power per se over others as opposed to an understanding of it. But what I really came to realize is how significant it was, the Buddhist paradigm was as part of Thai culture and how meaningful it was to invest oneself in that sort of process deeply. So at that time, when I came out of that experience, I felt that at some time in the future, I was called to return to Thailand and invest myself fully in the Buddhist study and the Buddhist practice in contrast to what I was doing. Cause in fact, in Theravada and in traditional Buddhism, the exploration of paranormal powers or mysticism is actually frowned upon and discouraged. So it was interesting that I had the one skew to really be exposed to the extreme side of focus in that area. And then I wanted to take it the other direction and go in the other way where that stuff is not at all. Pardon parcel of what you're supposed to be doing or what you're supposed to be exploring. And so fast forward a number of years, I was coming out of a relationship and disengaging as I described the process of going from being engaged to being no longer engaged. And it's a challenging thing to do. And to facilitate that process, I decided, well, you're always looking for the perfect time to do something and to extricate yourself from life and to become a quote, renunciate and to go and be a monk on the other side of the planet. It's a hard thing to sort of orchestrate when you're involved in life on this side. But that seemed like a perfect juncture to do so because not only would it give me the opportunity to invest in this experience, but it would also create a gap physically, literally and otherwise between myself and my ex. And not only that, but she could also go away and tell people, well, you know that guy Garth, he's crazy and he went off to Thailand to become a monk. What can I say, right? And how old were you at this time? I was, how old was I? So that was 2007, 2008. So whatever we do the math on that, I guess that was about 43, 43. Okay, in the 40s. Yeah, 40s of that time. So, you know, that's the jump forward to that point. But there is one little interesting anecdotal chapter that comes before that, which is in 2006, I was selected to be part of a documentary slash reality show, which was an unconventional one so far as it wasn't about, you know, antagonism between the players or all that kind of drama and trauma kind of garbage. It was about spiritual exploration. And the show was called Five Seekers and I was one of the five people chosen to have a spiritual adventure of a lifetime. And since I felt I was already on a spiritual adventure of a lifetime, when I saw the casting call for this, I thought, wow, this will be interesting. You know, what can I take from this experience and add to what I already have and pay it forward as well? And so I set about applying and ended up being selected, which was funny because I didn't fit the typical selection criteria and I kind of had to convince them that I should be included. One of the experiences that we did on that particular adventure was a regression hypnotherapy session, which is an interesting exercise for anybody who hasn't been part of you, whereby you're hypnotized and invited to go back in time in your past and to visualize and experience a piece of your life that is not necessarily of this time. Now, I can't say decisively and conclusively whether or not this is legitimate or whether or not it's something that you manufacture within your own heart and head or mind, who knows. It's impossible to say objectively that this is science, but my experience when I did this regression hypnotherapy was to go back and see myself. I saw myself as a Buddhist monk, the 18th century, and felt very, very comfortable in this incarnation. So again, I felt this sort of calling to explore this path at this time and when the opportunity presented back in 2008, I seized it, went to Thailand and due to my connections there, I was able to set that up and I was ordained at one of the relatively famous monasteries in the city of Ayutthaya, which is a UNESCO World Heritage City. It used to be the former capital of Siamtayam, Siam slash Thailand, back in the day first Westerner who was ever invited to be ordained in this particular temple. And it was kind of an interesting, not it was very interesting experience, but even the ordination and the preordination and the preparatory part of it and making sure that you had Thai people supporting you. So a huge thing in Thailand. I mean, the expectation too, for those of you who don't know, those of you, not you, but the people who were listening to this. In Thailand, there's an expectation that every male will become a monk for some period of his life, at some time, ideally before his parents die and before he gets married. And the reason that they do this is that you convey the blessing onto your parents, particularly onto your mother, who could not be a monk because it's a fraternal organization. So women are excluded from becoming part of the monastic order, although they are unable to become nuns, but nuns unfortunately are looked at as considerably lower on the hierarchy within that structure than men, which I don't think is correct. So there's a tremendous amount of pride in somebody becoming a monk in Thailand. And in fact, when you become a monk in Thailand, you are seen to be a superior human. You're actually considered to be something above human at that time. And nobody is higher in Thai society officially than a monk and somebody who is part of the monastic order. Nobody is deemed to be higher in the social order, such that even the king or ministers are expected to bow to monks, not the other way around. So if ego was your motivation, going and becoming a monk would be great for the ego, but that was not my draw in any shape or form. So the other thing to understand about that is that because that expectation is there, every man has an opportunity to become a monk and you can do so for any period of time that you like. So that's one thing that most people don't understand. It's not like you have to make a commitment to become a monk for your entire life. You can make a commitment to become a monk for a few days or a few months or a few years or a lifetime. It's really entirely up to you. What really comes down to what's most significant in terms of that process is getting the right guidance and sort of astrological advice about when to become and when to exit. Those are considered to be really, really important. They look quite closely at the sort of astrology of that. So what is a good day for you to ordain? But more importantly, what is an auspicious day if you're going to leave the monastic community and return to lay society? So I knew I had a certain amount of time and opportunity to vest myself in this experience. I basically left everything behind. I left my ex in the condo we were living. I left all my property and stuff with her. I didn't really care. It didn't matter very much to me, but I knew I had a certain amount of time to vest myself in this experience. And so I decided to do the deep dive and off I went. And I already was working on the monastic aesthetic as far as my head style, my hair style. My head style was already apropos, although when you ordain, you are expected to shave your head. So it's interesting to see that. During the ceremony. All right, during the ceremony, there's expected to be a shaving, which is about your renunciation and letting go of these sort of aesthetic elements that you would otherwise be attached to, hair being symbolic of a very egoic attachment. Are you allowed a beard or no beard? No facial hair. No facial hair, gotcha. Including your eyebrows. Really? Which is pretty neat. If you were like, you know, if you're doing a flash up of a picture, there's a picture of me in my, I call it my monk mug shot because he actually do become like, if you do it properly, and I did it very, very properly because I had big supporters, big Thai supporters who were very excited about me doing this process, including the mystic master who I mentioned to his past, actually his one year passing was just yesterday. But having that sort of backing from these people was really a key piece to this. And I ended up getting official accreditation as a monk, which you get a little passport like a monk passport, which is very detailed. Very detailed. Your mother, your father, your background, like much more detailed than a regular passport with a picture in it, which is my mug monk shot. And it shows me, you know, sand eyebrows. But the joke is that, not the joke, but you know, in preparing for my ordination day, they actually wanted me not to shave for a while, not to shave my head for a while, so that we'd be able to get some hair from my head before I actually, and not to shave at all, right? So there was something to collect because they collect the hair and there's a ritual that goes in releasing that into the world and it's sort of a gesture of your own submission to this particular path. So anyway, there are many things I can say about this, but... What was the day to day life? Yeah, what do you do when you're a monk, right? Okay, so again, sort of Buddhism 101 for your base listenership. There are sort of three major tracks of Buddhism that Westerners are familiar with. Theravadan Buddhism is sort of orthodox Buddhism and it's based in Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, India, sort of like the foundational Buddhist practice that is closest to an orthodox style. So that was the style that I was invested in. There's Mahayana Buddhism, which is the Tibetan Buddhism, which most people are much more familiar with because of the Dalai Lama being a popular figure. And then there's Zen Buddhism coming out of Japan, which is also something that people are somewhat familiar with because of karate and connections to Japanese culture and whatnot. But Theravadan Buddhism, which is what I practice is, like I said, it's very sort of orthodox in its orientation. And the focus within Theravadan is very much about the individual's internal journey and the individual's efforts to deepen their understanding of themselves and liberate themselves ultimately from the cycle of reincarnation that everybody suffers from through deep meditative practice. So your classic idea of the monk in a cave, meditating alone, living a fairly austere life of minimal engagement and involvement with people speaks more to sort of the Theravadan brand, whereas Mahayana's tend to be a bit more engaged with people and involved with people. Personally, based on my own character, I probably am more leaning in that direction because even when I was a monk, one of the things that I always liked to do is to be a service in some way. So I like to be a service monk. And so, you know, one of the things that I did, thankfully through my favorite head monk was to go and do some work in some prisons in Thailand as a monk, very interesting experience. Give back and connect with the prisoners. So what were you doing in the prisons? Yeah, I wanted to go and to offer support, guidance and counsel to the prisoners. So I'd done work like that before working with Ministry of Corrections and working with people coming out of prison and whatnot. So I was familiar with the kind of problems and challenges that people face both when they're incarcerated and when they're likely to be released. So I ended up going to both men's prison and women's prison and giving them an opportunity to engage with me through translators. I mean, it's primarily a Thai, obviously, Thai prison, so I don't speak Thai fluently. So I wasn't able to speak like that. But, you know, it was very unique for them to encounter a Western monk. You know, I am a Canadian. Yeah, let's go into the levels of unusual here, right? I am a Canadian, biracial, half African, half Irish-Scottish person who has flown halfway around the world and has committed to the path of a renunciate in becoming a monk. And I'm living in this little... At this time, I had moved to this very small rural country monastery with, say, eight monks living there, very low, you know, pared down, small hut, you know, simple life sort of thing. And then I had asked to go to these prisons which were located in the country. So the chances of them ever meeting somebody like me is almost zero. And I thought that alone would be interesting for them to see that somebody had come with an intent around this and that somebody cared enough to take time from their life to want to come and see them, meet them, engage with them and possibly offer some awards of support or understanding or commiseration or empowerment to them because that's really been the thing that has moved me throughout most of my life and continues to move me. You need to help people to be empowered and to create lives or work better for themselves. That's what moved me to go there. But here's a fun little bit that I like to share because it's so unique. And for those of you who are in anybody who's been party to the North American corrections system, you'll know how unique this was. When I went to these high level, like maximum security prisons as a Buddhist monk in Buddhist society, I was a quarter of the level of respect in my position. And not only in just that, but I'm not even Thai, I'm like from outside, but I was a quarter of the level of respect that I probably never experienced anywhere else. And that included not being searched at all. Wow. Being able to go in its prison without being searched. I mean, there's no priest or chaplain or reverend on this side of the planet who would be led into a prison without getting properly searched and patted down and you know, wand or whatever the case. And they didn't do anything. Here I go in all roped up. I could have been packing. Anything. Before explosives. I could have had all kind of contraband on me. But the faith that they have in the monks being representative of a higher standard of behavior and being an integrity is so well entrenched in that society and the respect accord to that is so deeply ingrained there that they wouldn't even think of it. Like it's, you're not gonna go up to a monk and like frisk him and tell him to take his clothes off or something, but that's just not happening. So that I thought was one of the things that really struck me is very unique apart from the actual experiences that I had with the prisoners, which were quite special as well. How did the inmates receive you? Well, it's interesting that you asked that question. It was quite different women to men, which of course would be the case in women to men. Period, right? I mean, women tend to be the drivers of religiosity across the planet, I think. And it's no different in Buddhism than it is anywhere else with any other faith, I find. So they were extremely deferential and really effusive about their happiness to have this in gate. Now, of course, I don't know what to say about that, but of course you're a male monk going into a female prison. So there may be some inappropriate thoughts that are percolating in the minds of people there who are locked up and don't have access to men, even if I am a monk, but barring that, I found that they were particularly impressive to me in terms of their connection to Buddhist philosophy and their desire to apply it in their lives, whether that be through chanting or meditation or an understanding that there was something valuable for them to extract from that premise or that sort of paradigm. The men, on the other hand, of course, and the differences in the crimes, of course, let's be clear, right? Women don't typically participate in a lot of violent crime. A number of the women who were in the prison that I met there were there because they were accessories to drug trafficking or they'd been used by men in some way that landed them in prison too. So their stories were very different, one to the next. Whereas you go to the men and the men are assaults and robberies and murders, they've done some pretty substantial crimes. So they're different kind of people to begin with, right? But they were both, they were all very welcoming, and I think, again, anybody who's incarcerated appreciates an opportunity to break the routine of their incarceration. So whatever you bring, I mean, hey, Johnny Cash did it. Come to Folsom Prison, you know, come in, bring some music. Anybody who wants to feel appreciated for their presence should go to a prison and you will find that you appreciate no matter who you are. Whether you're a monk or a layperson doesn't make a difference. Come in there with good intention and interest to be of some value or some entertainment or some diversion to these people and they'll be well felt and well appreciated. And I thought that was how I was received too. And so can you kind of run us through what your day-to-day was? Yes, sorry, I digressed on that. So the day-to-day life. Now, so when you're a monk, you're analogously like a priest for people in Thailand or Buddhist people. So depending on the monastery that you live at, and I lived at three different monasteries, the one that I was ordained at was a very popular one which was actually part of, like if you were gonna do temple tours in that city, this is one of the ones on the temple, like literally it's on, you know, people do temple tours. Kind of like you, I guess, was to St. Paul's. You know, they're from the church or something. Right, famous ones, right? Because they have a history and whatnot. So that particular monastery was the one that I was ordained at and spent the majority of my time at, but wasn't my favorite because it was busy. And you know, people would come and then people would wanna come and talk to the monks, engage with us to some degree, ask for advice, ask for counsel, bring offerings, things like that, which is nice, but it's a little distracting I found, a little bit too busy. So your day would be involved with very early rising, which is obviously part of the course over there. Meditation and chanting begins your day and you go out and you collect the food that you're going to eat for the day. So traditional Buddhism, you're not allowed to or supposed to eat or consume anything that is not given to you. Interesting. Not even a fruit off a tree. Wow. So there are this famous sort of parables of the monk who is sitting under a tree and there's fruit all around him, but he doesn't eat any of it, right? It's not been given to him directly. So every morning we go out with our arms bowed and there is a relationship established with the local community and they know that monks will be coming in their area. And again, to be glib about it, it's kind of like Buddhist trick or treat. I know it sounds really glib and cheesy, but it's kind of like that. I mean, you go and people come out of their homes and they give you food and pre-cooked, ready to eat. They give you food, whatever. Whatever, it doesn't matter. It's a whatever. Some of them have made a pot of rice specifically and it's steaming and they put in a bag and give it to you. Gotcha. Some of them give you the leftovers and the whole exercise is about both the community supporting the monastic community and in turn, the people who are giving you this food are blessed by you. So we perform a blessing on the people who give it to you. That's a reciprocity there. There's a reciprocity there. And so if you're a religious person and feel that it's important both to maintain the Sangha or the religious community of monks, then this is how it's done. I mean, monks will not live if this does not happen. This is a thousands of years old practice, right? They are supported in their penury and in their modest lifestyles by being given food by other people. And the expectation is that you bless the people who give you the food. But in addition to that, you bless them by eating the food, by consuming the food as well. So we would collect the food, bring it back and then depending on the monastery, some monasteries, the practice is that all the food is gathered together and then divided out among the monks. Like a potluck type of thing, yeah. Like a potluck, yeah. So I know it's interesting to call these things. But I say it's sort of like I used to look at it when I was doing it. That's kind of reminiscent of the old days of trick-or-treating, because you never know what you're gonna get. You come back with, you know, your alms wool has got different, you know, today it's this peculiar thing. And so after you guys break bread, then what happens? Yeah, so you eat once a day. That's it. Yeah. In the morning. The expectation is that you'll have all consumables that you eat will be before noon. Oh, you eat around 10-11, then you want to eat around 10-11 next day. That's it. There's your intermittent fasting right there. There's your intermittent fasting, right? But you don't see too many fat monks. No. Not too many. Sometimes when I do, I was kind of curious, how did that happen? I know what's going on here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Somebody's sneaking a little extra at the side there. Trying to meet the bed. I know, hiding a little bit. But yeah, that's what you do. And the remainder of your day is spent on, you know, meditative practice, depending where you are, chores around the monastery, because of course you have to maintain the monastery too. And so that's part and parcel of what you would do. But it's primarily driven by meditation engagement with peoples who might come or performing ceremonies, right? Because again, it's like being a priest. So if there's deaths or births or quite often you're invited, you know, a monastery will have a relationship with the community around. And so if someone's opening a business or whatnot, the monks will be asked to attend and ask the business and start it up. So there's a lot of these sort of functionalities. What kind of meditation were you guys doing? Well, I guess you asked what type? I'm not quite sure. I would say type, like. So to break it down, there are four primary ways of meditating this tradition. They're not complicated, standing, sitting, lying and walking. Standing, sitting, lying, walking. So you can perform any of these types of meditation depending on where you are. I mean, sitting is the one most commonly that people are aware of, right? Lying is dangerous because it's possible they fall like asleep, which I wouldn't recommend that to the average person just beginning. You'll probably fall asleep if you're trying to do lying meditation. A walking meditation I found was very interesting to practice and perform. And I was at another monastery where there was more focus specifically on people who were in, well, I actually went to another monastery and to a section in that monastery that was specifically for, guess what, it just gave sort of hard cores. Like the people who were really just interested in focusing deeply and not even being part of the regular monastic routine but just like really focused on their practice and whatnot. And I wanted to have that kind of intensity of experience. Your hut is about the size of this table. And it's very, very austere and very simple lifestyle. So they had an actual walking meditation area there that was designed for walking meditation. So what do you do during the walking meditation? You walk. That's it? There's no type of protocol. Well, there's a walking, there's a way of walking. This is all very conscious. Everything is mindful, right? So much about mindfulness and the way you walk of course is designed to be very mindful, feeling you're, you know, you'll come down. And I mean, it's interesting because it seems very specific when they're describing it to you what to do, right? Your heel comes down, then your rest of your foot rolls forward before you take the next step off your toes and come off of that. And then, you know, place the next foot directly in front of your other foot. There's a sort of systematic suggestion around it. But at the end of the day, all meditative practice really, me as I've come to learn about it has to do with your ability and intention to try and quiet your mind, to reduce the number of thoughts that are invading your consciousness and to try and for me again, I say, discover what exists in the void when mind is not operating and driving all the processes or disconnecting rather than engaging with your self concept. So to me, it's an interesting sort of paradox because what I found in the depth of the greatest meditative exercises that I was invested in was that you have an opportunity to discover non-self, right? So it's not about deepening your consciousness of self. It's about trying to move towards a non-self which is a greater, which lends itself to a greater sense of connectivity to all, right? So if we were to put it in sort of ecclesiastical terms of the Godhead or whatnot, right? Dualities. Well, you know, Buddhism is not a monotheistic religion. So it's different from the ones that are, right? I always love Buddhism, Hinduism, because there's so many characters. Yeah, lots of characters. It's fun to read. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm eating no question about it, right? There's all kinds of stuff going on. You know, monotheistic religion's boring. It's only, yeah. You know what I mean? One God and one devil kind of thing. Well, they've got all kinds of people in there, polytheistic face or whatnot. But yeah, it's very interesting to have the experience of a greater dissolution of yourself and your identity and the humility that comes with that in recognizing, you know, a big part of Buddhism is recognizing the impermanence of life, the impermanence of self, impermanence of structures, the impermanence of self-concept and deep meditative practice that is focused on that type of understanding is very humbling, I think. It's empowering in a peculiar way that doesn't speak to sort of power over, but maybe power under. It's hard to sort of find the best words to describe it, but it's a very interesting thing. And I've always said that the reason why deep traditional Buddhism will rarely, well, it has not yet taken over the planet and the vast majority of people don't participate in it. And even in a country that is Buddhist, it's very interesting to note that humans behave much the same way in a Buddhist country vis-a-vis their interests in having supernatural assistance for them and praying to the Buddha for help, et cetera, et cetera, which is not part of Barcelona was originally the teachings. I mean, the Buddha never said, you know, build golden statues of me and come and pray to me when you want a new car, right? And yet people do that all the time. But yes, this sort of dissolution of self-identity, this reduction of sense of connection to worldliness and this greater sense of being a tiny, tiny part of a grand, you know, infinite cosmos, right? I mean, it all sounds very grandiose, but truly when you get into that place of deep meditative practice, that's what I found the experience to be. And it's both empowering in a way and disconcerting in a way too, because you have to let go of some of that self-identity of which you've attached yourself to for so much of, well, all of your life, right? Who am I? I am Garth Sam. This is the person that I know myself to be and everybody else knows myself to be as well. And now here I am dissolving that into what? Then what am I? I am not. I am not Garth Sam. So what is not Garth Sam, right? It's very interesting, sort of curious loop that goes on when you engage in this practice deeply. Would you say you had hallucinogenic experiences while meditating? Hallucinogenic sounds a little too exotic and sort of shmex of, you know, Timothy Leary style more so than anything. I wouldn't call them hallucinogenic. I've had experiences that I would call are more hallucinogenic when I've done float tanks, you know, like sensory deprivation chambers, which is, you know, inevitably what happens when you restrict the amount of information coming into your reticular activating system back in your mind, da, da, da. So I wouldn't describe them as such. They're more transcendental, you know, to use the better word. I think transcendental is more the word that I would describe of these things. What a transcending conventional consciousness. How long did it take? How long did it take to get used to it? It's get used to monastic life, period, or a meditative life. Meditation, general, because that's one of the biggest. Well, here's one of my jokes about that, because I mean, here's kind of funny. So these are the stories of a Westerner who has this experience. And one of the things I used to think about myself is that, wow, you know, it's all Buddhist premises kind of is about, you know, ameliorating suffering and escaping from suffering. Why am I suffering so much as a monk? Why is it so tough? I mean, it's like, you know, I remember the head monk at the first monastery that I ordained at, I used to call him Sergeant Monk. I mean, he was like a drill sergeant, like kicked my door open the first day, like three o'clock in the morning, yelling at me again. And I was never clear. Yes, no, just the same dude. I was like, yes, sir. I don't know how to put my robes on properly. And he's like, you know, roughly putting me together and, you know, get me all sorted, and then we got to go out there. And, you know, I am not super flexible. And if you're not used to sitting in a meditative position for a long time, you're sitting there and it's like, Oh man, I went to one just for four hours. My ass was running already, four hours. I'm like, this is brutal. And you're in pain, like, I'm in pain, I'm in pain. I'm like, this is not about, this is suffering. Okay, so you learn through your suffering to let go of your suffering. That's the key, right? It's like, okay, you talk to yourself and it's the same thing with the eating and the not eating, right? It's like, okay, you learn to observe the sensations, the somatic sensations, the physiological sensations of your body responding to either, you know, some position that's uncomfortable and you're expected to maintain or the hunger that you're experiencing and you have to go beyond, right? So what do you learn about that, which is some of the beauty, I think, of Buddhist paradigm is about being able to understand that that experience, that sensation that you're having is a sensation that your body is having. It's not a sensation that you, the essence of you that is non-physical is having. Yeah, it's not you. It's my physical body having it. Your body is having this thing. Yeah, it's a machine is complaining. The machine is upset because something is happening that is unfamiliar to it and feels unpleasant to it. But I, the I thing, whatever that is, the consciousness, how does consciousness feel pain? I have no, it's not a physical entity. So part of the training that I felt you gain from this type of experience is learning how to separate those two. Kind of partition. I mean, it's the classic example of self-immolation by monks during protests and whatnot, right? I mean, how does that happen? How does a monk, you know, this is a horrible story, but you know, monks have lit themselves on fire protesting and they're not screaming while they're burning to death. They're sitting there in their meditative pose and they're burning to death, which is considered to be the worst death a person could experience in terms of physical pain and whatnot. So what is happening there, right? I mean, they have trained themselves to the degree that they're able to make that separation of self-ness and body such that the body is burning but the mind is over here watching the body burn without actually feel that pain. By no means do I have any experience with anything so extreme, but just in my own humble experiences of having to face hunger, discomfort, physical discomfort, you know, as simple as sleeping, as not being familiar with sleeping on hard surfaces, right? I sleep in a bed. I've slept in a bed my entire life. My body is softened because I'm used to sleeping in a bed. And now I come to the monastery and A, you're not supposed to sleep on elevated surfaces so you don't have beds and B, you have a little sort of read math that you sleep on the floor with. And I mean, it's funny to see how you have to learn even to adapt to something as simple as that because your body's not used to it. My body's falling asleep. Like my arm circulation is cut off. I'm like, how do I sleep on hard, which I've not done before, right? And learning how to sort of go and transcend that and become comfortable in those spaces and whatnot. It's very valuable as a learning of self. I always say people should incorporate some forms of weekly or even monthly stoic practices. There's much to be gained. You know, you learn about yourself. I mean, that's the thing. When we challenge ourselves, we learn about ourselves. When we push ourselves to some bases into uncomfortable places, right? I mean, the classic adages that you learn best when your growth curve is highest when you're in a space that's uncomfortable and when you're pushed to do something that is not familiar to you. And it's true. And it's true because you're able to experience something that is outside of the realm of knowledge or understanding or comfort. And when you do, you opened up a new door of contemplation of what is possible. You know what is possible for you or what is possible for others, right? So I agree. So how long were you in the monastery for? Well, the whole process was probably around close to six months, but it wasn't all in, I was in three different monasteries. So I moved around because I moved from the most popular one that I began at, where, you know, it was a lot of fanfare and sort of focused to one that was intensely focused more on, you know, hardcore practice. Then last I moved to this country one that I made mention of where I did the work with the prisons and stuff. And that one I chose specifically because I really liked the head monk there. He was an ex-gangster. Cool. Who would be, yeah. Who would become a monk when he realized that he was on the path of either being destroyed through his actions or he needed to make amends and he became a monk and now as a head monk. And then ultimately when I left the monastic fold, I returned to the one in which I ordained, which is where you come out of it as. So, you know, I went through these different sort of phases in this experience, including the preparatory phases of getting them, you know, you don't just get off a plane and walk to a monastery and say, yeah. But when you went in, do you have already a plan to leave? Most people make a sort of linear assumption about amount of time and the benefits that you could accrue based on time invested. But I found based on my time and based on my own experience that like so many things. And I suppose, you know, Anthony Robbins was one of the first people sort of talk about this. You know, it doesn't necessarily correlate directly like that. It really has so much to do with who you are, you know, where you are in your life and in your process, in terms of what you can extricate from a particular situation or experience. And for me, you know, the fact that I only spent a few months involved intensely in this particular experience felt to me substantial and substantive in terms of what I took out of it. Whereas I could see that there are some people who would spend years and possibly not extract that same amount that I might have taken out in the shorter period of time. So it really varies a lot from one person to the next. And I think it's important for people to realize that there are a couple of things that I would debunk in some ways around the mysticism around the whole monastic experience. Not all monks are saints, let's be really clear. First of all, that was a mistake and perception that people sometimes have, of course, is thinking that all monks are saints or saintly. Some monks are there because they don't want to be. Some monks have been forced to do so. Some monks are very disinterested in being there but are satisfying their parental expectations, et cetera, et cetera. And I met many of those. Sounds like the military. It is. It's much like that or kids in school. Same sort of thing. Some people are there with a purpose and an intent and a desire. And what distinguished me in so many ways from many of the people that I met who were fellow monks in that time was that I had made a very clear and conscious decision to travel halfway around the world and be party to this experience. Like this was not like a fly by night kind of idea. This was not me acquiescing to any expectations of parents or any other people. This was me making a very clear adult decision. This is the process that I want it to be a part of. There's some learning that I want to take from this and I'm going to go in there full on, two feet in and really try and make the most of this experience. And I found that that made a huge difference in terms of my own objective take on how this was valuable to me and for me and how that contrasted with some people who didn't come with the same sort of perspective. So it's an important thing for people to understand and realize because a lot of people just have this sort of paint with one's broad sweeping brush the nature of the monastic community and how people are and who people are and everybody is given this title and given this position. But there are some monks who I found who are shitty monks. There are good monks and there are shitty monks. There are committed monks and there are slacker monks. I think it goes like Pareto's law. You tell. You know, like 80, 20 or Ziff's law. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. You'll have like a very small percentage who are amazing at what they do and produce the most work. I call it the bell curve. Yeah, it is a bell curve, yeah. Absolutely, the bell curve has a distribution paradigm and model to me is a brilliant way to analyze pretty much every and all situations in my conclusion around that. And it's absolutely the same. And when you look at this, if you look at a monastic community there'll be some outliers on either end who are phenomenally invested and phenomenally accomplished, whatever that means as far as being that. And there'll be some who are absolute slackers who are eating crackers at midnight that they stuff that to their bed. Like you said it's like you're a, totally. How is that, guys? Yeah, let me tell you. There's only one time meeting per day. I'm telling you, they're there too. And I mean, I have some slurries that I could share but I'll keep them off right over the time being of real disappointments that I encountered in that space with people who you would expect better of and didn't behave in that way. So they're reflective of humanity. They just happen to be in a different particular form where you see that reflection of humanity. So same, same, you know, same, same, but different as they say in Thailand, right? That's right. I'm going to kind of switch gears here, segue and talk about your focus with helping men. Yes, absolutely. You know, you run an organization called Tubb, you know, Universal Brotherhood. That's the acronym. Yes, Tubb, yeah. Thank you. Which I've been part of for a couple of years now and you got a very impressive work. From the early stages. Early stages. You've been there. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, it's interesting. Obviously it's clear that my past has been leading me in this direction even in terms of my involvement with a formal 2,500 plus year old fraternal society, right? I mean, the Buddha society is very clearly a fraternal organization, fraternal society. So my engagement and my involvement and my interest in the story of my gender and how to maximize the quality of experience for members of my gender and for myself becoming an expert in my gender. You know, I cannot claim expertise nor would I ever have the hubris to suggest that I have any expertise in understanding what it means to be a woman. Nor would I expect or accept that any woman should be able to claim the same in being an expert on men. You know, there's only so much academic expertise that you can acquire and the knowledge you can carry about either sex is going to be academic unless you have some visceral, real personal investment and experience in being that gender. And of course, you know, the whole subject of gender now is a very interesting and serious one. You know, let's get out. 100 different types of genders. No more binary this or that. Well, you know, barring that conversation which we can push to the side of the time being, I have an interest in facilitating excellence in men in terms of both character and performance and my interest in that has been very much lifelong based on my own interests in facilitating excellence in existing service and performance myself. So like you, you know, you're bio hackers, you're self hackers, you know, I've been walking a particular walk that has lent itself to a certain set of results and I can speak to the journey that I've been on and reflect on that and extrapolate from that things that I think are valuable for other men. Now, this conversation has become more and more poignant and meaningful to me since I started at the Universal Brotherhood or Tub about eight years ago, which I didn't begin honestly with clear vision as to why this was particularly relevant at this period in time, nor did I see it as being something that might morph into a kind of men's movement, a positive men's movement. But over time as I've been doing my PhD in men's studies, I realized that we're at a really dynamic and interesting time in human history, which I think is unparalleled and unique where there is this significant pendulum swing towards women's growth and opportunity and empowerment and development, which is well due. I mean, in the history of humanity, it's never been an opportunity in a time like this where women are finally having a chance to show and shine and develop their potential to the degree that they should, which I think is fantastic. But at the same time, we're kind of seeing the counterpoint to that too with men feeling more disenfranchised, disillusioned, disconnected and uncertain about who and how to be at this time and whether they can even describe themselves as men. Like, I mean, is that a word that's even acceptable now that we're sort of like, well, it's maybe not a binary equation anymore. So can we even use that word? How do we take masculinity as a construct, celebrate the best aspects of it without it being defined as misogynistic, right? And this is the journey and conversation that I'm eager to help to drive because I see tremendous amount of suffering in my gender. And because I understand my gender as well as I do, I feel that there's a place for people to drive and lead and carry this conversation such that people can be helped by it. Better men makes a better world. It's not even a question as far as that's concerned because the majority of the practical dysfunction that we see that has happened historically throughout the world in terms of active dysfunctional behaviors or active negative behaviors is perpetrated by our gender, whether it be through warfare or whether it be through abusive resources or whether it be through ruthless business practices, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So if we can shift the way men think that they're supposed to be and who they're supposed to be and how they're supposed to be in a direction that celebrates the best qualities that we represent. And I'm not entirely unapologetic for the best qualities that we represent. And I feel quite aggrieved that we're throwing baby out with the bathwater all the time because historical precedents have suggested that we need to do so. In other words, men are bad, masculinity is bad. What we're seeing today is just all political wedges and tools using it as a weapon to divide people, using it as a weapon to brainwash people, to manipulate people. At the end of the day, they just want to buy votes. Yeah, I mean, there are a lot of agendas. And I mean, recognizing and understanding the type of agendas that are out there and having the intellectual and emotional and insightful wherewithal to realize if you're being manipulated in a particular direction or how you're being manipulated is a huge part of the challenge. I mean, the vast majority of people as you and I would agree are not, they either don't have the time or they have not been exposed to the capacity development to be discerning and discriminating. Ergo, they end up being manipulated and shifted the sheeple, get pushed into a particular direction. And I mean, it becomes an interesting question as to how much responsibility we can expect people to take because the manipulative strategies are very, very well-developed and are very, very focused and clear. And so- They should take responsibility. They have to take responsibility to the degree they can. But at the same time, I'm sympathetic to the fact that many don't have the resources, the tools and the means or haven't been exposed- I don't think so goes back. I'll push back. I don't think so goes back to resources or tools. I think it goes back to psychology. But when I say that, what I'm referring to is, I'm talking, your socialization process from a child, me, I count as being part of those resources and tools and strategies. I'm talking about your whole socialization. So if you have not been socialized to be empowered and conscious and critical thinking or open-minded to alternative paradigms but very, very structured and dogmatic, then it's easy to move you, right? I mean, and we see that, right? Which is why I say I tend to operate sort of a six and one half dozen of the other sympathy and expectation of responsibility to be taken, right? I mean, you know, when you open the door for someone, red pill, blue pill and say, you know, make a choice. If you go this direction, you get this. I don't like the red pill, blue pill analogies. I've always liked the movie. What can I say? No, the movie's great. I'm originally, red pill did mean something. Obviously any meme or narrative gets hijacked. And the problem with creating these types of labels or dimensional boxes is if you don't fit in this box. Let me explain what I mean by that. When I say the red pill, blue pill, I'm using it as a metaphor to describe being given a choice, being placed in a position where you have a decision to make that will lend itself to one perspective or one or another or one outcome or another, right? So if you tell someone, all right, if you do this, this will be the outcome. And if you do this, this will be the outcome. And now you know, so you're empowered. You see, I like the idea of people being empowered to make the choice. If they were never clear about the outcome or the opportunity that's presented to them, then they're not really fully empowered to make the right choice. So now if they make the choice, listen, I might tell you that if you smoke the cigarette, you know, you're going down the path of likely having some sort of respiratory dysfunction and or carcinogenic outcome at some point in time. And you know that and you still choose that. Okay, so be it. Deal with the consequences as they come, right? But as per the people in the 40s and 50s who didn't know any better, you can hardly blame them for thinking, you know, cigarettes on planes, cigarettes everywhere in the office, in the elevator, it's not a problem. In fact, here, a pastor kid of cigarette, it's all good, right? You know, that kind of thing. So once we give them that opportunity for making a choice, when I talk about that sort of red pill, blue pill distinction, that's really what I'm talking about. It's like, let me give you a chance here to reevaluate a situation that you may not have been able to take a look at. You know, I love the work of like, Malcolm Gladwell, for example, in providing perspective of things that people didn't necessarily hold before. Now you sort of go, oh, let me look at this differently. Now I can sort of make a choice that may lend itself to results that are more in keeping with what it is that I'd like to accomplish and how I'd like to be. You know, I'm always talking about, I'm very interested in how people are being. You know, how is that working for you? And that's not my line. I think it's Dr. Phil or somebody who says that. But I think it's very, very apropos. It's succinct and it describes what's going down, right? How's it working for you? Like how is your life unfolding for you? The decisions you're making, the choices that you're making, the way that you're comporting yourself, it's gonna have results. How are those results? How do they feel to you? You know, when I talk about prosperity, I'm always talking about the subjective experience of that state. I don't care what anybody else describes it as from outside of you. You know, if somebody looks in at you and sees that you've got the Ferrari and you're living in the big house and all that, listen, I know enough people who are rich and miserable to know that that stuff along are trappings and they're not representative of your experience, per se. I'm interested in always the subjective person, personal experience that a person is having and how that feels to them. And that's the thing that I'm most interested in trying to guide. And when it comes back to the men's conversation, that's the thing I try to look at. You as a man, how is your experience going for you? How's it working for you? How do you feel? How are you performing in a way that is- Do you think we're having like a men crisis these days? We're definitely having a men crisis. That's all indicative of that. Suicide rates are terrible for men. Men are really confused, particularly millennials, like sort of millennials and under Gen Z or Z, if you're an American, the young kids coming up, it's really confusing in an age and time when there's this whole dialogue as a non-binary binary. Okay, so what do I, who am I, how am I supposed to be? And men are both being, men are vilified constantly and rightly, I mean, the ones who are being vilified, I think when they are called to task for their misdeeds, it's a good thing, but that's not everybody. And there are many men who are trying to step up and step in in whole positions that are positive and whole philosophies, philosophical orientations that are positive and to be better men. I mean, there are probably better men at this time on the planet than have ever been, by which I would say men who are comporting themselves in ways that are positive and empowering and helpful to the planet, you know, conscious, mindful engagement with their partners, with their children, you know, men deciding to be great fathers. When 20, 30, 50 years ago, 100 years ago, that construct was very rudimentary, you know, fatherhood possibly meant at that time simply providing basic needs at the lowest tier of Maslow's hierarchy, right? I mean, that was it, you're a good dad. You gave them food, shelter and security, done, right? And now there are men who are interested in being fathers who are engaged and loving and supportive and nurturing and helping their kids to understand what it means to be those qualities themselves and to see those reflected. So we have that type of thing. And we have men who are at the forefront, of course, of environmental issues and recognizing the importance of us being attentive to these and nurturing and creating a future that will be beneficial to our children and grandchildren, et cetera, et cetera. We have all kinds of men who are really, you know, pushing positively. But unfortunately, there is so much of the other stuff out there too that I think is really hard for young men to sort of figure out, you know, where do I look? Cause a lot of the other stuff gets the press, the bad stuff, you know, it bleeds, it leads, right? So every second day there's some psycho man who's a shooter somewhere, mass shooting somebody, right? And you never hear about women doing mass shootings ever, right? It's always guys who are doing mass shootings and they're killing random people and doing horrible things or there's a bombing that happens or this or that, you know, these things happen constantly. So with all of that bad press, I think between that and at the same time, you know, young men are seeing the ascendancy of women into positions of power and authority and respect and accomplishment like never before. And I think it's quite intimidating. I think that men, in my opinion, have been resting on their laurels for the entire history of humanity. We have been running the show. Like let's be clear, men have run the show forever, always because we had brute strength and we had the capacity to make things so. And we have been the dominant players in the human drama until now. And that is starting to shift and really interesting and meaningful and important. Yeah, but we also sacrificed the most too. We have died. Going to war, going to fighting, protecting. We chose to do so. We did so. Yes. We have all, yes, we have, we have damaged ourselves as much as anybody else. This is the fine dance of masculine and feminine energy. Absolutely. And I mean, you know, there's no question that we have suffered, you know, in large measure, our suffering has been self-inflicted in so many ways. That's the other thing that's important, I think, to realize is that why do we necessarily want to participate in things that would be so destructive to us and for us, right? Should we not be aspiring to other ways of being that are more constructive, collaborative, cooperative, healthy and lend themselves to better and more positive outcomes, right? So I think it's a really interesting time that we're a part of now and there may be either a growth of positive role models who are exhibiting qualities and standards and demonstrating behaviors in practice, not merely in philosophy that are inspiring to men to look towards and to look to about how to be. And I think that women are especially keen on seeing that type of conversation held and that type of dialogue, you know, men being authentic, men recognizing their own natures and dispositions but not feeling necessarily ashamed by that either. You know, that's the other part. I mean, you know, we are built the way we're built as men and as women. And I don't think it's appropriate for us to feel ashamed of our natural essence, so to speak, right? As men or women and everybody in between and within all the spectrum either. I mean, I consider it completely apropos that we now have a society where we're allowing people to express their sexual orientation as they see fit. I don't really care. What does it matter to me what you want to do in your bedroom? It doesn't mean a thing to me. And again, I don't get hung up on any sort of religious opinions about the subject. I'm just looking to see people live as freely and in as great health and manifesting their truth as much as possible. So I don't really care. Do what you want to do in your bedroom as long as it's consensual and it's adult. You know, mature and consensual, make your choices, right? Make it yours. I don't really care. But likewise, I want to be able to celebrate being a man who is strong, right? Not feeling bad because I possess a certain mentality. This goes back to loving yourself, whether wherever you are in the spectrum of that spectrum is like when people talk about relationships, I hate the word when they say, I have to not con... It's a, yeah, the concede, the concede something to it. When you look at the relationship or you look at, for example, the Tai Chi or the Yin and the Yang, it's actually three entities. When they come together, they form the relationship. I'm giving into the relationship. I'm not conceding. I'm not giving up anything. Well, the... I'm giving into the relationship. But I mean, you know, man, that's a huge topic. If you want to go down, you know, the topic of relationship is... But at the end of the day, when people are so-called conceding or subtracting things that they love, one, you don't love yourself. Number two, you're doomed to fail at anything you do in life because you'll be conceding and giving up and you're not having your way of life or having someone else live how you want to live. It's a formula for disaster. The question of concessions and the question of accommodation when we move into the realm of a relationship of any sort is a really interesting question. And when it comes down to male-female, like partnering... This is for anything. And, or platonic or romantic. Or business. Or business, you're right. It's, I mean, it's a really interesting area to explore. But you're right. I would argue based on my own relationship with my partner, you know, we've been together 10 years and it's the best 10 years the two of us have ever had. But when we both came, when she came into my life and I came into her life, we both came with the perspective that we had done a lot of personal work in understanding who we were. Such that we were bringing fairly, we were bringing a healthy people into each other's lives who were clear, confident and competent about who they were independently. And we were going to synergize in our combination, not the old school... I need you. I need you to meet everything. You complete me. It's so romantic. I hate that shit. You complete me. You're right. I was feeling pretty complete. I have an ongoing joke in my life. I always love myself more than I love you. Because if I don't love myself, who the fuck's gonna love me? That's cute. How does that go over? Does that work? Yeah, well, what the fuck? I'm pretty honest. You are a very honest guy every year. There's no question about that. Absolutely. But, you know, we came equally comfortable with our own independent company, equally used to having moved through the world independently and capably, neither needing the other to be in our life, but wanting to share our lives with each other and wanting to enhance and augment the experience we have with each other by virtue of our partnership. And we espouse the same kind of philosophy because we do work as well with couples and we espouse the same sort of philosophy to people in so far as the best indicator of a long-term success in a relationship is complementarity of disposition, the nature, philosophy, orientation, and outlook. And if you do the work on self, you inevitably refine self and make self a better self for whoever it is that you're gonna be with. So the more that you have spent time investing on your own self-development, self-growth, self-refinement, the better the product you bring to bear on the other person's life. So do the work, know yourself well, understand what works for you better and you'll have a far better probability of finding somebody who is complimentary to you and will help you to continue to grow and become the person that you should self actualize into. That's my point around that. As far as concessions or, you know, flexing, people are gonna flex around toilet seats and toothpaste tubes, right? I mean, those kind of things are trivial. They're not really substantive. The substantial stuff you don't really see, I don't tend to see a lot of people bending around substantial issues. So that's why you need to be clear about what those are prior to engaging because otherwise they inevitably become friction points. Or like a non-starter if you wanna have kids in a relationship. You need to ask some of the really big questions. That's day one. You need to have that claro, claro, I mean. That's day one. CCCC has to be clear from the start. You know, what are you looking for? What do you want? How well do you know yourself in terms of what works for you? So the more work you do, I say it all the time. Like I'm a big proponent of delayed matrimony because I feel that the vast majority of people don't have the time and opportunity to invest in understanding who they are in order to be capable of understanding who would be the best partners for them. And this is why I see that there are so many failed relationships so often is because people are figuring it out while they're together. And sometimes that works, but sometimes it doesn't. And more often than not, it doesn't, you know. And the impetus, especially, well, I can speak again to men, you know. Men, as we know, are very hormonally driven and their impetus and their interest in connecting with women in relationships is so often sexual as sort of the driver. The driving force behind it is so often sexual, right? And I mean, that cannot be the substantive base for a long-term healthy relationship because that is not going to remain the same. Your interest sexually in someone at 21 is not gonna be your interest sexually in that person at 41. 20 years later, when so many things have been to me and it's gonna change, it will change for sure. So if that is the base that you come to in that relationship and you start from that sort of place and position as a young man, you're gonna be surprised and disappointed when time goes by and things shift in that realm, which they will, absolutely and inevitably they will. So yeah, there's much there to that conversation for sure. And so what do you think we can do? Obviously, you have to tell the organization, but besides that, what are steps men can take today? Well, I mean, I think that the main thing is in being party to conversations like the one that we're having and finding places and spaces to engage with and connect with men who are dedicated to this conversation and dedicated to helping men to be empowered in a healthy manner and fashion. And the tricky thing about that is that there are a lot of people who are becoming aware of this as being an important facet of what's going on right now in the world. But not all of them will have fully benevolent intentions and it's a little worrisome to me because I can see there's a great potential for the exploitation of the vulnerable and the disenfranchised in men right now, the whole in-cell movement, the whole potential for backlash against women I see as something really problematic and worrisome to me because if men start to feel disempowered and disenfranchised and if men identify and recognize that once upon a time they were the kings of the castle and now the sands underneath them are shifting and they are losing that position of power and authority, it's likely that there will be men who will be upset about that, aggrieved about that and unfortunately will point the finger and villainize women potentially or men possibly. Well, they're playing the victim car so my question is who's stealing this platform underneath them? It's open fucking game, go out there and fucking hustle. Absolutely, that's the key point, right? I mean, set it in classic Amir fashion right Amir. Yo, go work 100 hours. Take care of your shit. Yo, eat well, train, lift heavy shit, man. Fucking build up skills. Take care of your business, man. Take care of your business, dude. Right, I agree with you completely and you and I as classic alpha guys who live like that, do like that, see like that, be like that, not a problem. You don't have that issue. I don't have that issue. We're good. So we're not talking about us, but what we have to realize is that we are a subset in a small category and a small subsection of the entire populace, right? A lot of people and who don't have either the insight now we're back to the red, you know, red and blue, right? Well, you just broke down for them was the red pill, blue pill, pick it, right? Okay, listen, if you don't go and work out what do you think is gonna happen? Like really, you know what I mean? Like if you don't exercise your body and use it, it's not going to be robust and capable and functional and optimal. It's not the end, not a complicated story, right? I need to understand the, I need to understand this perspective because if you look at evolution, biology and psychology, women go after the top 20% element. Like that's a fucking fact. Like there's no denying it. And nobody, and nobody should disparage them for doing so. I put myself in a woman's mindset. I'm like, women are attracted to people who are go-gethers, they're attracted to empathy, they're attracted to love, they're obviously aesthetics is number one, they're attracted to aesthetics, all these, and so why? The aesthetics might not be number one for women, but it's on the list, it's definitely on the list. When you talk to women, they might not put that at the top of their list. But, but let's put it in the cluster. Let's put it in the cluster, it's part of. But let me finish. Yeah. If I'm this angry person, whether it's in whatever group, I don't even care what you label yourself. I'm just angry men. Yeah. And usually when I look at angry men, I'm like, they're just boys in men's bodies. They had a lot of trauma in the past, they got to figure things out. From a female perspective, what? I'm trying to figure out their cognitive dissonance that that is. It's like... Between who's got the men's? Yeah. It's like, okay, you're not go-getting, you're not financially there, you're not working. You're not doing the things that would position you. The biology calls for. They would position you ideally. Psychology, the whole evolution in trade. All the things that you should be doing that would position you ideally to create or to experience the life that you're interested in creating. It's like someone bitching about, not fucking, not being rich, but not working for it. I'm like, fucking shut up. I agree. I mean, hey, I always tell people, you want to be rich, go for it. Like, I mean... Especially here. The sky's the limit. Here, in particular, in the developed world. Yeah. In the developing world, which I spend a lot of time in, opportunities are very different in some places. Opportunities, click, click, clack, corruption. Yeah. Or you know, I mean, I have kids that I'm supporting and things that I'm doing in the developing world. In Ghana, right? In Ghana, yeah. Where there just are not the opportunity. Like if you're in a little fishing village in the middle of nowhere, there's nothing to do there. Like you can't get, you have to get some way out. That's why I tell people, this is a golden land, United States and Canada man. No question. So I say, for people who tell me that they want to be rich here, I said, no, you don't. Like if you're not rich and you want to be rich here, then there's a problem. Because you don't really, if you really want it, there are so many resources and there's just so much available now to tell you how to do it. Pick one. You don't even have to read all the books. Pick one book and follow it verbatim. I don't care which one it is. There's fucking government. You're a sucky. You got to go Robin. You want to go Ferris. Pick one. There's so many gumbo grants that give you, they'll give you like $20, $50,000 here. Just even start. Follow the guy who's pitching about doing real estate on TV. I don't even care. If you follow anybody's program to the T, chances are more likely than not that you'll succeed. You'll figure out a way forward. So we come back to the problem and this is where the compassionate side of me and the understanding side of me meets with the sort of martial side of me and the hardcore kick you in the ass and get you moving kind of side of me, right? The balance between the two. We have a lot of people who want but don't quite understand how and or didn't have the role modeling to understand how. You really think they don't know how to go to the gym or how to work? Or they lack the confidence and the insertion point to get started. I mean, we're talking about the big questions here about why basically what we're asking here is why are there so many people who are living unhappy and dissatisfied and dysfunctional lives in here? That's what we're really talking about. That goes to Buddhism. That goes to expectations. If you have zero expectations, you're good. Yeah, you can satisfy. Yeah, you're good. But I mean basically that's the question we're asking here. And if we talk about specifically men, why are there so many men? Because they're just part of the whole population of humanity. We're back to the same sort of question. Why are there so many dissatisfied people on this planet period? We're back to that big question. And I would say based on my own assessment and evaluation of this is that the multitude of factors that come together to create that large cluster, socialization, family history, dramas and dramas that affected and influenced and compromised your sense of capacity and confidence even to stepping and step up. Mental illness comes in there for a certain section or segment, right? There's so many of these things, a lack of role modeling, a lack of support, a lack of guidance, a lack of understanding, a lack of opportunity to step in comfortably, right? Take for example, Tubb. So let's use that as an example. I hold these events. I invite men to come out. It's interesting for me to see who comes out who doesn't come out. Some men would be enticed by the concept of coming and connecting with an eclectic group of men from a wide swath of the population. By the way, we're fantastic food too. And we have, thank you. We usually have a great thing to go with it, thank you. But I realized as I've been doing this for a long time that many other men are intimidated by this prospect, right? And so they won't even like, they're attracted by the idea in some ways, but they're also quite intimidated and people get into these sort of patterns of inertia where it's very hard for them to get out. You sometimes literally have to take people, and I know it's hard to sort of, when you're not that person, it's hard to understand it. And you and I are not those kind of people. I mean, I've been very proactive and I've been on a road less traveled since I was very young. And I've developed an uncommon level of confidence in my capacity to move through life. But a lot of people don't have that and we have to be sensitive to that. Let me clarify. What irritates me are people who complain, who play victimhood, because they're very body able to complain and scream at people. They're not dumb. I'm not saying they're not dumb. They're intelligent. I'm irritated by individuals like that. Who has time for that? I mean, I'm with you. And I agree. There's people out there that who are very quiet, who have demons and they're suffering and need help and they're afraid to ask. I'm more focused on the people who are like, oh, fuck everything. I'm like, you have the energy to scream at people. You have the energy to complain at people. You're on your keyboard all day. I'm like, dude. I'm like you in that regard. We're sympathetic on that viewpoint. Like I'm very much about people being proactive and taking control and charge of their life to the degree that they can. I mean, there's so many factors you can't but the ones you can step in and step up and make it happen. I'm with you. And don't be rate, don't blame. This is, you're absolutely right. I mean, these people, and these are the ones who are dangerous. Dangerous, man. These are the dangerous ones. The people who look outside of themselves and are pointing fingers at other sources. It's the immigrants. It's the women. It's the this, it's the that. It's always something outside of them. They're raining on their parade and shitting in their pool. Well, maybe you need to turn that lens around a little bit. Start looking inward a little bit. Start recognizing and understanding that your modus operandi is not serving you to the best. How is that working for you? So those are the people that are really important to reach in terms of some messaging about them being willing to really take stock of who they are, how they are and what they've been up to and introspect around their own responsibility for what they've been creating in their lives. I'm with you about this completely. There has to be that interest in reevaluating, reassessing and exploring the nature of self such that one can understand one's complicity in one's own misery and suffering. Because if you don't and you're constantly looking outside for the sources you will not resolve the problem. It will not happen. There's a lot of pain. There's a lot of pain. There's crazy feminists these days who... It's crazy everybody. It's crazy everything. And it goes to internal pains. I always say like everyone should do like six grams of mushrooms and go on a fucking ego resolution. Great, or an ayahuasca journey. Whatever it needs to do that, you know, or go and sit in deep meditative practice and recognize and see yourself for the small little speck of micro dust that you are in these universal cosmos. Right? I love the Buddhist paradigm. So whatever way that gives you some insight into understanding both your own humility, which I think is very important, but also empowers you with an understanding of what it is that you can do to adapt and adjust. But you know, it's tricky, you know, there's so much to this, which is, you know, this is the field that I am professionally involved in. Right? I mean, I'm not trying to do a spiel here, but you know, what I try and do is help people to understand these things, see these things and take the steps necessary to ameliorate their own problematic patterns of behavior and habitual behaviors, right? Because habitual behaviors are entrenched in everybody. I mean, and they're very hard to transcend for many people. And some people are not even capable of recognizing their own shortcomings and seeing how those play out and affect their behavior. So giving them an opportunity and some guidance and or some reflection or some counsel around how to do that is a critical piece of this process. But certainly, you know, the tools are available now insofar as there are people like myself, you're out there trying to offer people guidance in different ways or on different subjects or whatnot. There are people who are available who can help individuals to become more empowered, more capable. You know, I'm interested in empowerment, not over outside factors, first and foremost, but you have to be in control of yourself, right? I mean, mastery for me is about self mastery first. It's not about power over, it's about power over self. So I'm interested in seeing people demonstrate that and it comes back to the point you made earlier, namely that so many people don't have self love. They have low self esteem, they have a low sense of who they are, they have a low sense of capacity, they have a low sense of confidence. Those things have to be addressed. Those things have to be improved when you can help people to feel good about who they are. So that's the first step. Then we can move further to figuring out, you know, what it is, do they really, what do they need and want? And the needs and wants are two different things too, right? At a conversation with a guy the other day, I'll give a shout out, I'll give a shout out to him because I like him a lot, he's an interesting guy. And he's a MMA fighter and also MMA producer based out in Vancouver. And Sabah Fadai, shoutin' you out, in case you ever hear this, he's promoting a group called Rise, Rise Fighting Championship out there. I know, Rise. Yeah. Sabah is the guy who runs it. Oh, very cool. Yeah, so we were hanging out just recently and whatnot and he made a comment, of course, for our conversation about having always wanted a Ferrari. And I sort of teased him a bit because he's now, you know, he's 34 years old now. And I said, you know, you've always wanted a Ferrari but let me just make mention of the fact that you know what you'll realize as you move forward and of course I'm a little bit older now, 21 years on him. I say is that your childhood and childish aspirations don't necessarily hold the same weight as you move through life, right? At a 10 year old or 12 year old, maybe you've always dreamed of having a Ferrari or an Lamborghini but maybe you've come to 35 or 45 and you realize now that you're a parent and other things are going in your life that it's not really that meaningful to you and your contentment will not be attached so much to that experience because he was telling me an experience about a guy we know as a Ferrari and now says, you know, it's just a car and it doesn't drive very much, right? And I say, yeah, you know, the attachment to material things is one of the things that's probably easiest to shift through time but it requires a constant refinement and assessment and evaluation of who you are and what matters to you, you know, what matters to you, what really matters to you, not what you've been convinced or told matters to you, not what the marketing savants out there who are perpetually and indefinitely bombarding you with messages about what should matter to you or telling you and that you are constantly being corrupted in mind to believe because you've heard the commercial 10,000 times telling you that this car or that brand is what's gonna make you happy but what you really, what really works for you, you know, what works for you in terms of the quality of the relationships that you're nurturing and the quality of relationship that you have with yourself, right? Those are the two facets that I consider to be so critical, you know, who are you in relation to yourself and who are you in relation to others and how are those things working for you? And the more we can help people to figure out how to have an exceptional relationship with themselves and consequently exceptional relationships with others, the rest of it becomes easy. Relative, yeah. The rest of it's relatively easy, right? Because that's where most people get hung up on not being content, period. Yes. Right, they don't have the self-love, they don't have the self-like, they don't have the self-esteem, the self-confidence for themselves, right? So let us empower them in that direction. Now they start to feel good about themselves. Now they're better prepared to meet a partner who is not so dysfunctional because like tends to gravitate to like. So, you know, two dysfunctional elements come together, great, they're both dysfunctional together. They tend to exacerbate their negative qualities and it doesn't tend to work out and go well. So now we're refining and shaping and honing this human on one side of the equation. They have more gravitas to pull into their orbit. Somebody who is complimentary to them and vision and outlook and philosophy and now they come together and now they enhance together and grow together. This is a beautiful thing. And the entire world is positively affected by these sort of concentric circles outward of good intent and good understanding, right? And that's why, as you know, there are sort of five foundational constructs that I've come up with for TUB, the Universal Brotherhood. Right there, yeah, sure. Yeah, they're right there. I'm not sure if that's right. I forgot, I'm wearing them, yeah. And, you know, wisdom being one of those, right? The pursuit of understanding that can be practically applied to the creation of healthy, positive and sustainable results for an individual. For me, wisdom is not esoteric. It's not something that's just out there that deserves no mention or is archaic in its value. No, wisdom is understanding. Applied understanding that help you to create a life that works well for you and for other people around you. That's what it is. And that's why I think it's so important for people to be interested in the subject and to actively seek to add more of that to their own knowledge base and understanding base, right? And if you do, and if you do give people these sort of opportunities and for people who, like we say, are proactively interested in their own growth and evolutionary pathway, they will seek to find resources, individuals, groups, whatever, that are speaking the language that they can relate to and will help them to be party to that growth, right? And it's not, you know, we're not talking about things that are immediately tangible or measurable, right? We're talking about the things that are kind of intangibles and difficult. You know, in my line of work, I don't always have clear cut indices of success being achieved, right? Sometimes we do. If we have a very clear and targeted goal, okay, you know, I wanna run the Spartan race or I wanna run the marathon or do something like, okay, you know, we build someone up, get them ready to that place or you know, I wanna achieve this or that or the other. But so much of it is about things that will show themselves over time, gradually and gracefully as your life reflects them. You know, the quality of your life becomes... It's also like in the section though, too. Like every time I try to, I wanna say incorporate but slowly integrate different narratives, drill stories, or upgrading your software. At least how I met, you mentioned walking. I can't meditate any other way by walking. And it's no music, no nothing. I wear noise cancellation headsets and I just fucking go in my brain. Beautiful. Well, you're busy. I mean, I know your head. Your head is busy. Your head is busy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Your head is busy. The busy fucking head is a big head. Yeah, you got a head that sounds like a head. You got lots going on. But I have moments where I'm like, oh shit. Like there's that narrative. There's that software. It's there. And I mean, but the key always, I mean, at the end of the day, as we've seen, as people who are proactive is to be proactive. Like you can't just not be consciously engaged. I think systems are important. Like I'm a firm believer that your environment dictates how you behave. Like I give credit and kudos to my wife. She pushes me. She makes me to a better man. Hundred fold. There you go. Then the friends that you keep, even like environment where you live, I'll give you an example of my gym. So I was at a beautiful gym downtown Toronto. Awesome gym. I live uptown, close to you. Yeah. And I never found myself in the core of Toronto. I never went. I'm like, I'm never there. I'm not gonna spend fucking almost 40 minutes going there. No bueno. No bueno. No bueno, brother. No, convenience is everything. I'm with you. So I found a gym, not as good, but still great. But we know it's not the gym. What you do in the gym. Yeah. End of day. It's logistics. No, that's what I was saying. I was at the gym within seven minutes. No, that's what I'm saying. The place has got to be close. Yeah, and good. And it just, you know, for me, I, you know, this is my spiel. When I talk to people about training, it's like, I said, you know, don't talk about the gym, right? As long as it's not disgusting and people are crapping all over the place, you got to walk through some of the shit on the floor in the change room. I don't care about the gym. I care about what you do in the gym. That's right. You don't need every piece of the latest fancy equipment. My track list is Olympic weights and kettlebells. Right. That's all I care about. Have they got steel? That's it, man. Is there metal there? Yeah, you're my kettlebell meister. You're the first one to introduce me to kettlebells and thank you again for that. And my pleasure. I've become a fan ever since. Good, good. I was just in BC and I met these kids in the gym there, these 17-year-old boys. And you know, whenever I see people training badly, it's like, I can't help myself. I have to go. I got to step in. I got to say something, right? So, you know, they'll probably, it's funny because I'll see. Maybe I'll meet them again years from now or they'll have another encounter. But I was like this mysterious figure. Like there are no black people where I was, you know. I think it was Jim. We're in Vancouver? I was in Chilliwack. Chilliwack, yeah. Even the last year. Yeah, yeah. But you know, these kids had no idea what was coming when I rolled up and started shouting them out. But they're a 17-year-old two boys. You know, one guy was a little bit overweight and the other guy was kind of skinny and stuff. And I started talking to them. But I began by telling them first and foremost that I really wanted to give them props for being there. That was where I began. My first point was, I'm going to tell you a kid something. You know what? Good for you. You are here. You don't know what the hell you're doing. And I can tell that because you're not doing a shit right. But you're here. And I give you a lot of credit for that because all the other kids that were not here are not here and you are. And you're not some rock star. You know, neither of them were like, you know, buff rock stars. I bet you've met a lot of them. I think it did. I spent like half an hour with these kids. Half an hour showing them stuff, give them some guidance, give them some pointers. And I threw in the kettlebells too, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, props to you for introducing me to that piece of technology, which I am passing for it. I think that's actually missing a lot in young boys. Well, that's part of it. The mentorship issue. Mentorship. And just congratulating them for the effort. Another award. The effort. No, that was the key. You know, a couple of points I made to them. One, you're here. So be proud of yourselves for being here. Two, it's great that you guys are doing this as a team because you can support each other in your journey. Three, get clear about what your goals are because the two of you have different objectives here. And you need to recognize and your training needs to reflect those two different objectives. One dude wanted to do some weight. He's kind of chunky. The other dude is kind of ectomorphic smaller. He wants to build some mass. Completely different. Their exercise styles need to reflect that. I made sure they understood about that. And four, I was telling them, listen, you need to do a bit of homework. Do some learning. It's all out there. You shouldn't be walking into a gym and not knowing what you're doing. Like, why? There's no reason. There are books. Forget about books. Nobody even does books anymore. There are a million books, but you just gotta go online. You too, right there in your phone. Why are you there? You got apps too. Everybody. So I gave them a couple of recommendations that some people who I think are good in this space. And I said, go check it out, right? Figure out your objectives. Find your resources. Apply yourself. Enjoy the results. I said, I'll see you guys in a year or two and you guys are gonna be sweet. Like, by the next summer, if I come back here and I see you guys in the gym, if you guys are consistent, and that's the other one, right? Let's come back to that. Yeah, it's consistency. Consistency. We know, right? It's like, you can't come in fly by night. You know, I work out today that I stop and I come back again two weeks from now and I do it again and then I hurt it like hell. And so I stop until I stop hurting and then I come back again. You know, no. You gotta be consistent. It's the same thing with anything. Consistent effort lends itself to meaningful results. It's not rocket science. These things are basic, but having people to help people to do this is kind of where I step into the mix and try and offer that type of assistance in all areas, mind, body and spirit, you know? That's the role. That's the goal. That's how we do. Beautiful garth. Yeah, man. Thank you so much for sharing your story. I really appreciate it. Small part of, at least. And if people wanna get ahold of you and find out what you do, but what's the best resource? They can look me up on wwwmanpowercoaching.com. They will find out a little bit more about me than we've been able to share here, but I'll be able to see if I'm somebody that might be of value to them in some way, shape, or form. All right, guys. There's another episode of Amir Approved. Please go check out Garth's website. He has loads of information and as you've seen, has a lot of different stories and past experiences. And like always leave a review on iTunes if you're watching this on YouTube. Make sure to leave a comment. I'd love to hear from you guys and make sure to subscribe. Till again, peace.