 To my left, you're right, A.J. Hawke. The boys are here, talks to the table. Actown digs one half a hammer. Dad is here. In joining us, live from New York, a man who we are initially introduced to as electricity via the part in my take podcast, a man who's a grinder, an insider, works for CBS, knows more about college basketball than you do. Just signed a deal with Fando to be a content creator. We'll sleep in May. This is Fando. Ladies and gentlemen, John Rothstein. Yeah, Johnnie! Pat, right now, I feel like Sean Michaels at the culmination of WrestleMania 12, the boyhood dream has come true. Well, listen, I want to let you know it is our dream to have you on here. It was probably our fault while you were muted earlier. It sounded like you came in with some real fire. We will not ask you to duplicate that because we know some will come in the few minutes here. We have, hey, John, great to see you. Congrats on the Fando deal. Hey, Jerry! Hey, Pat, appreciate it. Val's great to join you guys and the Fando family. And remember, this is only February. So as you mentioned, we're taking things to another level. And we are just 16 days away from selection Sunday. Not that anybody's counting. OK, so let's talk about that. 16 days, what teams are we going to see? Who matters? Who doesn't? They're all the old school. Gonzaga, all the other school. Baylor, I think, is in there. Who, I don't know. The normal schools. Are they still the powerhouses here? Do we have some new ones? What should we be looking at right now? Talk to me as if I know nothing about college basketball. Because I don't. But people that are watching potentially, John. Well, Pat, I'll tell you this. You obviously fiddled last year. And last year, there were two teams that were clearly better than the rest in Baylor and Gonzaga. This year, it's the polar opposite. This year, Parity has, again, dominated college basketball. Any number of 8 to 10 teams, maybe even 11 or 12, could win a national championship even more than that, could get to a final four. But I also think that we need to look at a bigger situation right now. Two potent offensive teams have separated themselves in college basketball. One is Gonzaga, who's been an incumbent at the top of the bracket. And the other is Arizona, which is coached by Tommy Lloyd, the former top assistant at Gonzaga. These two offenses feel like they're on a collision course. And if we get a Gonzaga-Arizona matchup in the final four of the national championship game, both will be number one seeds in the NCAA tournament. It will be college basketball's version of Reigns versus Lesnar. Wow. Hey, what does Gonzaga do so well that they're able to consistently be so good, especially in this era of like one and done and recruit one guy and win a national championship? Well, Hawk, I'll tell you this much. When Gonzaga went to the final four for the first time in 2017, it put the program on a different level. And now all of a sudden, instead of getting maybe some of the best transfers in college basketball, Gonzaga all of a sudden was able to recruit the best of the best. Last year, they had a dynamic lead guard in Jalen Suggs. This year, they have a unicorn in Chet Porzingis, who is completely, excuse me, Chet Holmgren, who is completely unlike anybody that we've seen in college basketball. Initially, when he was in high school and I watched him, people compared him to Kristoff Porzingis, but he's much different. The motor runs at a different level. He can be a shot blocker on defense and a three-point shooter on offense. Last time I think in San Francisco, in multiple situations, Gonzaga was in a situation where Holmgren got a defensive rebound, led the break, went to the other rim and finished. We are seeing a scenario right now where Gonzaga has not one, but two all-Americans in its front court with Chet Holmgren, who's in play to be the number one overall pick in the 22 NBA draft, along with Drew Timmy, who was the consensus preseason national player of the year. Drew Timmy's my guy, right? That's the mustache guy? Mustache guy. Yeah, yeah, okay, I love that guy. John, thank you for breaking this down like I'm a doofus because I am, I feel like I just learned a lot. No, no, I'm letting you know. I am, and I appreciate that. I can't wait to see Holmgren play. I can't wait to see all Holmgren play. He's going coast to coast. No more bickies, NBA guy, lottery guy. Get through March Madness, let's make some things dance. We have a guy in here that pays very close attention to college basketball strictly because he bets on it every single day. He might have a pub. This is what he looks like, by the way. This is the man. Bang, John, that's Gumby right there. These are his top 16, John. How do you feel about this? Is this how we should be viewing it? I guess Purdue at 11 has a lot of people pissed off. Is this about accurate or are these the teams you see making it to the sweet 16? Yeah, I think that's a good 16 by Gumby right there. Gumby kind of reminds me of one of the guys who was like any extras on the trail in like the Lost World Jurassic Park series. He looked like he could hang out in like Jurassic Park. Yeah, it's Gumby. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like Gumby's looking to take down some raptors. And by the way, just for reference too, really looking forward to Jurassic World Dominion hitting theaters in June. Pat, you know, we've got an opportunity to get a Saturday afternoon with Jurassic World Dominion. But anyway, getting back on track right here, I think this is a really good list by Gumby. And I think one thing we need to keep in mind as well is that momentum plays a big role in college basketball. I'm gonna give you a perfect example. 11 years ago, UConn finished nine and nine in the Big East regular season. They went to the Big East tournament. Campbell Walker happened. They went five games in a row. Then they go to the NCAA tournament and they went six games in a row. The rest is history. And then just last year, UCLA was a team that lost its five-star point guardation next to the G-League. It lost its best returning player, Chris Smith, to a torn ACL. And also it's starting center Jalen Hill. Pretty much quit the team in February. The Bruins lost four straight games heading into the NCAA tournament. And then they went from the first four to the final four. So in the next 16 days, we are going to see momentum at a real level play a factor in all of this. But remember, Pat, this is only February. You see, by the way, February is nothing compared to the next month. Oh yeah. Hey, March Madness is coming on the other side. UCLA had that kid with that fro, right? Yeah. Had that anything? Yeah, he was awesome. Is he still on the side? Tiger Campbell. Huh? Tiger Campbell's the guy with the fro. Is he still on the team? He's still on the team. Yeah, he was their point guard. Tiger Campbell. UCLA is a team, Pat, that's had incredible bad luck with injuries this year. Cody Riley, their top, you know, interior player from a year ago, had 14, 10, and five in the final four against Gonzaga. He was out for the first month of the year. Then they went on a month-long COVID pause. Jaime Hakez, who looked like a potential all-American has battled an ankle injury for probably a month right now. So UCLA right now needs to get healthy, a shell of itself. They lost at Oregon last night. Well, they might be able to do what they did last year. Who knows? That's why college basketball is so crazy. Yeah, yeah. And we're gonna talk about momentum. We assume that the momentum of Coach K's final year has led Duke to be great. Gumpy's got him at five there. Is this Coach K thing been everything it was cracked up to be before the season? I haven't followed closely enough. Is he giving speeches at every arena? Is he getting gifts at every arena like Jeter? How is that whole thing going? And are they a team that can maybe win in this final year for the guy? Coach K is pretty much getting treated this season like Brett Hart did at the end of WrestleMania 10. Remember when everybody kind of stormed the ring and put them on their shoulders after he beat Yokozuna at the Garden? It's kind of like a similar type of send-off. And one thing too, that's ironic about this Duke situation is we've grown up with the ACC always being one of the great leagues in college basketball. It's not this year. They're dead, John. The ACC is dead. Right now, Pat, believe it or not, right now the ACC has 15 teams. I have four ACC teams in my bracket today. Duke, Notre Dame, Miami, and Wake Forest, North Carolina from the bubble. So Duke is not in a situation from now into selection Sunday where they're going to get the type of quality opponents that they need to boost their standing. Despite a terrific record, Duke right now to me looks like there'll be a two or maybe even a three seed in the NCAA tournament because they're not getting the same caliber of competition. However, Duke did beat Gonzaga, did beat Kentucky, and Duke because of the talent base has the highest ceiling in college basketball. I'm not saying Duke's the best team, but Duke has the highest ceiling. And think about this, from a recruiting perspective, this Duke team has a starting five. Trevor Kiehl's, Wendell Moore, A.J. Griffin, Hal O'Karrow, that combined was highly recruited and highly rated and higher rated than the Duke team that won a national championship seven years ago in Indianapolis with Tyus Jones, Justice Winslow, and Jaleel Oakmore. OK, so they have an opportunity you're saying. Go ahead, A.J. So are people thinking that if Duke doesn't make it run they're an underachieving team? Oh, like every other Duke squad, the Coach K's coach. They had Psy on him. They're serious holes in this Duke team, I think, when you look at potential experience. Because remember, last year's Duke team, OK, missed the NCAA tournament. There was no NCAA tournament in 2020. So the thing that's missing from Duke right now is NCAA tournament experience. The only guy that's really played substantial minutes in the NCAA tournament for Duke is Marquette transfer, Theo John. And he was on the Marquette team, remember, in 2019, that went out in the first round when Murray State upset Marquette. Murray State's a job, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's Tom Bram. Yeah, I mean, I'm a college basketball guy. Yeah, you know. I mean, I get in that whole thing just real quick before the boys have their actual questions. Yeah. West Virginia just stinks of basketball. I thought we were a good basketball team and then I checked out the whole record and we fucking stink. When did that happen? What happened? West Virginia is having a season right now that is comparable to the experience that Mick Foley had at the time of the 1998 in Hell in a Cell. They're in left place right now. And if they get knocked out in the first round of the Big 12 tournament, you might as well break out the thumbtacks. Oh, man, the cage, dude. People are thinking about that. Yeah, John, love these top of the table teams. But who's our Loyola Chicago this year? Who's the team that's coming out of nowhere? And, you know, making some noise. Well, how long do you have? I mean, how long is this spot? I can take it up six o'clock if you really want to get in. It's your season for the NFL, so fucking go on. Rip it. Yeah, go on. Do what you got to do. All right, well, let's look at the teams right now outside the main six conferences. The Mountain West conference has had a resurgence this year without its main brands doing primary damage. UNLV or New Mexico is not right now projected to be in the NCAA tournament out of the Mountain West. But Wyoming, Colorado State, Boise State, and San Diego State are. Colorado State is a potent offensive team led by David Roddy, somebody who looks like an offensive guard but plays like a shifty two guard in Wyoming. Oh, the big body can move. Yes, and Wyoming has one of the more underrated one-two punches in college basketball with Hunter Maldonado and Grant E.K. That's a really, really good league and underrated league. Now, in the Gonzaga's league, St. Mary's led by Randy Bennett has had a major resurgence. They are very quietly a team that's gonna host Gonzaga tomorrow night, but has already won in excess of 20 games. They've been ranked in the top 25. And if you look at St. Mary's in your bracket, think to yourself, this is the equivalent of like playing Wisconsin. They're an old team, they don't turn it over. They're outstanding offensively. They're extremely, extremely well coached. Now, Rick Petino has led Iona to domination of the Mac. I was talking about, uh, restaurant? Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah. He's back, huh? The guys don't know that. He has built an American conference roster at Iona. He's got two American conference transfers in the backcourt, Tyson Jolly and Elijah Joyner as well as a burgeoning big man in Nellie Junior Joseph, a sophomore who's averaging a double-double in his last two games. They're a team to watch out of the Mac. We've talked about Murray State. I just hung up with their head coach Matt McMahon before I got on with you guys. And the most interesting thing about Murray State this season, Murray State has two starters, Kevin Brown and KJ Williams from the team that beat Marquette in 2019 that we just talked about. They combine for 35 and 10 rebounds in that game alongside John Mark Morant. So there is NCAA tournament experience on Murray State's roster. Oh, right, sir. And beyond that, there are still other teams that I would put in bold print. I think one of the more interesting conference tournaments that we're gonna have, only one team can go, is the Mid-American Conference Tournament. That's in your neck of the woods, Pat. Toledo is a team that is potent offensively led by- Rockin' man! Rockin' man! Rockin' man! Rockin' man! I'm gonna get up here alone. That's the Rockets, dude. I hear you. Now, Ohio is the team. By the way, Elton John is on his last tour. He was at MSG this week. I couldn't go though, because obviously Tuesday night was a big night in College Upes. But anyway, we're gonna look at Ohio. That's why this guy's on the show. That's right. That's why this guy is a fan dual content creator all of a sudden, because this dude could have seen Elton John on his last tour again. Yeah, again. Again. Yeah, we'll see. Instead is, but I'm basketball. It's February. We're close. We're getting close. Thank you for that. This is only February. Now, in the Mid-American 2, Ohio, a team last year that beat Virginia is a team that has replaced their star point guard, Jason Preston, with another point guard, Mark Sears, has been absolutely sensational. He forms a nice troika along with Ben Vanderplos and Xavier transfer, Jason Carter. And also, Ken State has had a resurgence thanks to sincere carry, a transfer from Duquesne who had 42 earlier this week. So only one team is gonna go from that league, but the Mid-American Conference represented in the NCAA tournament should be formidable. Hey, listen to Duquesne. Duquesne's a formidable school. They fucking stink this year. They're about as bad as much Virginia's. No. Shit, that's thumbtacks out, dude. You guys lost the guys putting up 40 points against me. That's an issue. I got anybody. I got some news for you guys on Duquesne if you want it. Sure. Absolutely. Duquesne news breaking. Go Dukes. I just tweeted this a little over an hour ago. Their AD Dave Harper has told me that Keith Dan brought their head coach will return next season. Oh, thank God. Great day to be a duke. We've got another opportunity. And again, Pat, I don't think people understand how difficult this job is. You know, I have different taglines for different schools in college basketball. For me, Keith Dan brought his mission impossible because Duquesne hasn't been to the NCAA tournament since 77. They got there in 77, a losing record because they won their conference tournament and got the automatic qualifier. That, my friends, is the epitome of the tournament. You guys stink. Football school. You guys stink. Tony. Tony. You guys stink. A.J. Palombo Center will be rocking though. I can promise you that. Palombo Center. Gumby, your question for John Rothstein, sir. Yeah, John, I'm really high on Illinois, have been all year. They're plus 4,500 to win the Natty right now. Why can't they put it together on a consistent basis, my friend? It's a chemistry experiment, Gumby. And coming into the season, many people, including myself, felt that one of the best guards in the country would have been André Carbello, Illinois' talented sophomore. André Carbello has had lingering concussion issues all season long. And the rhythm and the chemistry of this team has been like, you know, alternate side parking in New York City. It's every third day. And what we're finding is, Illinois and I spoke to a big 10 head coach about this week, is a harder team to guard when André Carbello is not on the floor because what Brad Underwood has done is he's got obviously a staple in the middle and Copey Cobra and a first team All-American and a national player of the year candidate. Cockburn's still playing? Yeah, Cockburn's still playing. He is there. Big boy. Yeah. But he's surrounded them with great shooters, Jacob Granderson, DeMonte Williams, Alfonso Plummer, and Trent Frazier. So when you add Carbello to that mix, it affects their spacing a little bit. The rhythm and the chemistry for Illinois, as it's been for many teams this year, has been a work in progress. Go ahead, Todd. John, I am an Iowa alum, big time fan, even though they, I mean, we kind of know what's going to happen with them this year. Is anyone in the big 10 going to kind of like separate themselves outside of Illinois? Like, can Iowa make any noise? Are they going to make tournament, squeak by in the first round and get their asses beat by someone good the second round? Well, Iowa's NCAA tournament team, which to me is a tremendous accomplishment, considering that it lost Luca Garza and Joe. Hey, congrats. Yeah. Hey, congrats. Keegan Murray is pretty damn good. Hey, those dudes run like John Deere after. That's right. But I will say this, you know, I think really what Keegan Murray is doing right now for Iowa's a sophomore is grossly, grossly underappreciated. I mean, you know, here's a guy who, if he played, and I mean this with all the respect to Iowa's program, if Keegan Murray played for a blue blood program at Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Indiana, he would universally be viewed as a first team All-American and a national player of the year. Torsion, John. Iowa sticks. Hear about Johnny Davis from Wisconsin. Hear about Oscar Sheeveway, Kofi Kober, and O'Chai Bodger from Kansas. You don't hear Keegan Murray resonating as much as he should be. This guy has not taken a nibble. He's taken a gargantuan bite as a sophomore. How come? Is that because you guys in New York don't want to talk about the Iowa team? Is that what you're talking about? I've been talking about Iowa, Pat. I'm telling you, I was buying stock now in Keegan Murray. I called my financial advisor and I said, blue horseshoe loves Hanukkah Steel, like Charlie Sheen and Wall Street, so it's in 1970. Oh, yeah. All right, thank you. We appreciate you doing that over there in the big city for Iowa. Yeah, thank you. It's very nice to do that. What was the Italian restaurant you referenced in your Fandal video? Oh, that was a Campagnola on 74th and 1st, a New York City staple, unbelievable tripod to appetizer. Pat, you and your guys want to come in. I'll call Frankie. I'll set it up, no problem. Set it up. Set up. Do you want me to call Frankie? You know Frankie pretty good? Yeah, I know Frankie pretty well, but if you want to, you know, flex the muscle, you want to do it, let's go ahead. No, just the pinkie ring. Just the pinkie ring and the 23 and me and I'll say, normally I'm eating the fazellinis, but if we can come by, the Frankie's a guy, so we'll have some good food. The Gabagoola is so good. It's a New Yorker in the pizza. It's the Italian pizza. I could do that if you want me to, John, but I don't want to ruin it. Yeah, dude, go on. Do what you do. I don't want to ruin it. Hey, John, my last question, John, who's going to win the NIT this year? I think, you know, really, you know, you got to look at Herb Sendeck's team at Santa Clara. They had Joseph Brankey. They're starting Santa out of a lineup early in the season to the Mononucleosis. A lot of people don't know this about Santa Clara. They beat TCU and Stanford early in the year. They've got a burgeoning star that not a lot of people know about in Jalen Williams, and they are on track right now to be the three-seed in the West Coast Conference Tournament ahead of San Francisco and BYU, who were projected to be in the field are very, very close. So I think Santa Clara is an NIT team out of the West Coast Conference. John, how long have you just said, you know what, everything college basketball I won't fucking know. Like, how long has that been? You just dropped an NIT champion. Yeah, I know. It started on March 30th, 1991. UNLV was on a 45-game winning streak. 34-0 going into the 1991 Final Four in Indianapolis. 79-77 was the final score. Duke beat UNLV that night. UNLV was undefeated. Christian Leitner makes two free throws with 12 seconds left, and if you remember, those two teams played in the title game the year before in Denver. UNLV beat Duke 103-73. That was the first moment I really remember falling in love with college basketball. Pat, you know, we were talking a little bit about my father earlier via text. My parents have been married right now for an extremely, extremely long time. They'll celebrate their 47th wedding anniversary in May. That was one time. I remember my mom made plans and my dad was like, yeah, I'm not going. I've got to watch Duke UNLV. I knew it was a really, really big deal. I didn't know how big it was until I saw Leitner make those two free throws, and you have to remember, that was the first national championship for Mike Szebski. He went in 86. He lost to Louisville, 72-69 in the title game. He went in 87. He went in 88. He lost in Kansas won a national championship. He went in 89. He lost to Seaton Hall in Seattle, and he went in 90, and he lost to UNLV in the title game. In 90, he broke through. He ended UNLV's 45 game winning streak. Since then, some people have hobbies. I watch college basketball. We appreciate that. We appreciate that a lot. I mean, if Szebski, Szebski, Coach K, does that run there of losing the 90 five years? Five times? He's getting killed right now. Oh, baby. I did not know that. You said, if you remember, I did not. I did not remember any of that. I wish I did, but I do not remember any of that. I didn't know Coach Szebski could have like five more titles on it. Oh, yeah. Big time showing early on. 72-69. He could be a guy. So as an insider, you're just texting with everybody all day, every day. You know what's going on. Does that help feed your punditry? Or how does it work in that particular? You just know her of all things. Is that kind of how you're viewed? No, I just try to always be, you know, going to practices in the preseason, always making sure, you know, you're getting insight from coaches and so on and so forth, but at the same time, forming your own opinions. But I think obviously having the insight and the working knowledge on a day in, day out basis, you know, I've kind of made up my mind right now that this is what I do 365 days a year, seven days a week and twice on Sunday. Well, we appreciate that. Couple more questions here. We appreciate your time. Zito just dropped in my ear and, you know, it's a pretty good question because I think there's like millions of dollars on the line for this, maybe even a billion at this point. I'm not a hundred percent sure. The perfect bracket. What are your thoughts? Do you fill out numerous brackets? Are you in all these bracketologies? Will you be the first person with the perfect bracket? It gets like a billion dollars or would that never happen? No, the worst thing you can do when you fill out a bracket is have really good working knowledge of college basketball because the more you know the worse you're going to do because you're going to analyze certain things, you'll be like, well, Vermont's a 16-seat and Ryan Davis has been incredible in the American East. Maybe they could shock somebody. And this is how much I want to tell you about how all of this is really just by a whim. When UMBC beat Virginia in 2018 and was the first 16-seat to beat A1 in NCAA tournament history, UMBC was not expected to win the American East that year. Vermont was the heavy favorite. They were in a possession game in Burlington on their home floor and Jarrus Lyles, the VCU transfer for UMBC, pulled up, made a three-point shot, and the rest is history. Nobody thought that UMBC was going to win the American East that year, let alone be a 16-seat that beat A1. But Pat, you got to remember, it's not anarchy. It's just college basketball. John, let's be honest. You know who's going to win the entire thing. So why don't you just tell us right now who should we bet on and why are they going to win? I'm not going to say anything until I see a bracket, but I will say this. This year's tournament will be harder to predict than most because the level of separation between teams is expanding. John, who's going to win? Who's good value? Arizona? I forget the two you said. Arizona has been the two most impressive teams that I've seen so far, followed by Auburn, but Auburn's guard played to me as a concern. And I think that John Calipari's team at Kentucky, who has won back-to-back SEC games, again, Alabama and LSU, without its starting backcourt of Taitai Washington, and Xavier Wheeler, has been absolutely sensational in 2022. I don't know if there's another team in the country that could have beaten Alabama and LSU back-to-back without its starting backcourt. I'll say this, okay? If there was a bracket today, and I had to fill it out, I don't know who the fourth team would be, but I know that regardless of where they were placed, I would pick in Zaga, Arizona, and Kentucky to be in the final four in New Orleans. We appreciate that. We're also appreciative of your time. We're thankful that Fando signed you because you're the man. Can't wait to chat with you more. Excited to see how many hours you sleep over the next few weeks. Ladies and gentlemen, John Roste. Hour three on the other side. Cheers. No, you're good. What's up, John? We don't sleep. We sleep in May. Oh, yeah. Guys, I kind of fucking ruined your whole tagline there with, I can't wait to see how many hours. That's on me. We're still live on YouTube. We're not on serious anymore. We had a heart out there, which by the way, I mean, I'm screwed. Right on the... Right on the... Yeah. Bang. What is like a day to day... Okay, yeah, fuck's good. John, can we expect any other coaches to get smacked in the moth this season or what? I don't think after what happened last Sunday, though, I think that kind of set the precedent. What's that all about? Has that ever happened before? No, I don't think I've ever seen a coach in another coach, man. That was pretty intense. We appreciate you, man. Don't sleep, obviously. We'll talk to you next week, hopefully. All right, guys, have a great week. In fact, great chat with you, man. Thank you. Hey, you too. You're the man. John Rothstein, thank you. Thank you, John. Woo!