 Good morning. Thank you for coming after the parties last night. Very exciting to be here with you all. We have such a cool, not panel circle of speakers today, very excited to talk about ESG, efficient or not. Who knows what ESG, those three letters stand for in this context. Shout it out. Great. Thanks. Environmental, social and governance is what those three letters stand for in this session we're running today. And what that really means is we're looking as investors, as startups, at the environmental and social effects of what we do and the governance that underpins that. But it actually has even more nuance and each of our speakers here are going to share what it means for them in their specific investor context. So with that, I'm going to kick off and welcome Tava. So we start with you. What does ESG mean to you in your context? How is it different from another word that people in this room might be interested in? I know I am. Impact. We talk about ESG and impact a lot about startups and investments. What does that mean to you? And how does it, you know, name one decision it helps you make? Yeah. So maybe the first differentiate a little bit between the impact and ESG. We talked a lot about that backstage and it is super interesting, I think. The way we define it is the impact is the potential upside, the good we could do for people and planet. And that's where the real potential is. And we define the ESG more as the risk assessment, like what are the potential negative externalities that we need to take into account. And both those aspects are really critical when making investment decisions. So we invest for impact, but we also really need to make sure we understand. Let's remind, I know you guys were introduced, but yeah. So Norse can VC. We're an impact tech fund based out of Stockholm, Sweden. Amazing. Thanks. So one decision it helps you make? Yeah, it makes us help the actual investment decision. Are we put the money into a startup you want to see both ESG and impact? Definitely. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks. Heidi? Well, for us, it's very similar to what Tava mentioned as well. We do ESG assessment initially when we first kind of meet this startup and we try to figure out whether this is a company we want to invest in. And we do it both so that they do an ESG self-assessment themselves. So we ask them to think about these things. And then we do an internal assessment as well of where we think that they are and how we perceive them at that time. And really, the main thing here is about understanding how thoughtful they are around these issues, how much they've thought about what the environmental impact is, what the social impact is, and how governance looks in their company, for example. So we really is to kind of assess that. But in terms of what, and then same as with Tava, then impact is something that for us comes afterwards where we then figure out what are the KPIs that we measure. And we're a climate tech fund. So for us, it's all going to be climate KPIs that we measure. And then in terms of the decision that it helps us take, it's really about the founders and how value aligned they are with us and with our mission. So we actually really use this to figure out are these the type of founders that we want to work with, that we want to have an upper portfolio that we will be proud of when they are on stage and they're, you know, talking to thousands of people. And yeah, really try to understand that that is this the kind of company that we want to back based on how thoughtful they are around this and how core impact and the risks are for them and how much they take this into consideration when building the company. And remind us who you're representing today. And we're from Pale Blue Dot. Pale Blue Dot is a climate tech fund based in Sweden, but we invest around Europe and US. And how big is the gap lately between the questions you want to ask and the answers you're getting from entrepreneurs. I know we have a mix of investors and entrepreneurs in the audience, but you know, if they go, oh my gosh, I don't know the answer to that question. Is that more common or less common? Is that okay? I, in my experience, it's become a lot more common for people to be a lot more thoughtful around these issues. And actually, it becomes clear when you ask these questions that they've thought a lot about it and they've thought about what type of company they want to build. And of course, you know, in a climate space, they should have been pretty thoughtful on the environment and how this impacts the climate. So it is pretty common. But there are always things where they haven't maybe thought about the social impact of what they're doing. And you know, there's a lot of things that come up. And you do notice that some people are taking a back of it when you ask them to make this type of assessment at an early stage because they are so early that they haven't maybe been thoughtful yet. So you're on the journey together, right? I mean, I think this is what we're all learning as we go. Albert, let us know what you think about these topics, ESG impact and who you're here with today. So I'm a partner at Union Square Ventures. And historically, we have invested in all things digital. But since 2020, we also have a climate fund. But even predating the climate fund, we have always thought about the question of value creation. And for a lot of people, value creation has become the stock market value of a company. Instead of thinking about value creation broadly for society as a first step. So like Philip Morris is a very valuable company, but actually has probably destroyed a lot of value in the world. Purdue Pharma was a very valuable company that probably destroyed a lot of value in the world. And so we have always come at this through this question of, doesn't entrepreneur care first and foremost that there's value being created before they capture value? And even long before we came to climate, for instance, we invested in a lot of marketplaces. And we were one of the few investors who were very focused on what the take rate in the marketplace is. Like how do you have a 20% take rate, a 30% take rate, or maybe only a 5% take rate? So one of our early investments was Etsy. And a lot of other investors passed on Etsy because Etsy's take rate was 5% at the time. And they're like, oh, you have to up your take rate. And we're like, no, actually, we think marketplaces should have a low take rate. They should give a lot of the value to the participants in the marketplace who are creating that value in the first place. And so coming back to the original. So just on take rate for the audience. So Etsy has a platform. The market place volume that goes to the company. Got it. So they were sharing more with the people actually using the platform. Got it. And so while we don't have, even in our climate fund, we don't have any formal ESG criteria, we didn't raise from any investors that forced us to apply ESG criteria, that whole thought process of how does something create value in the world in the first place? I think it's something that's always been with us. So create more create more value than you destroy it. But you know, you're investing, hopefully investing early stage. How does that play out when you I mean, how do we know? Well, Heidi, I think said something that really resonated with me, which is, which is that, oh, Mike is back, which is a lot is unknowable, but you can know whether the entrepreneur seems to care about it or not, authentically care about it or not. And so we do spend a lot of our time when we get to no entrepreneurs on, is this somebody who thinks climate is the latest way to get rich quick? Or is this somebody who actually genuinely cares about solving the climate crisis? So for any entrepreneurs in the audience here, that sometimes feels like to test that, are you genuine? A lot of questions, a lot of data to collect, a lot of reporting, and even for fund managers now working in climate and social impact, there's a lot more requirements, basically, of what data you need to disclose on your portfolio and how you engage. What does that look like? How are you helping entrepreneurs manage that? And what do you think needs to happen next? The title of this session is ESG efficient or not? That's a big question. And really depends on the reporting requirements, which can be helpful, but can be really time consuming. Who wants to jump in on that one? Well, maybe I'll just start by saying, we made a conscious decision not to raise an ESG fund. And we had some people who wanted to give us money for the climate fund, and they sent us their ESG survey, we're like, we're not filling that out. So for us, it was sort of a conscious decision that we didn't want to do that. Okay, so for these investors, any entrepreneurs who do get a survey, what do you think they should fill it out? We're probably on the other side of the spectrum. In general, we really think that transparency and comparability is a great thing, but also fully recognize the burden that it could potentially put on the entrepreneurs. So the way we do it is that our due diligence is primarily focused on the impact, so the potential upside. And they're together with the founders to find kind of what this long term impact vision for the company, what would the world look like when they have achieved their goals, and what are the shorter term KPIs that we could track to see how they get there. And we actually see it as, you know, something that they can really use as a competitive advantage to have that clear. It can help them recruit talent. It can help them communicate with customers and also too many investors actually. So we see it as a strength, even though it is a little bit of an exercise to do, but we're happy to do that together with them. Amazing partnering with them. We're actually kind of in between here, I would say that I think I really against having to put the burden on the startups and really don't like having to ask them to report things. And in fact, when we raised the fund, we actually didn't take some LPs that had really hard reporting requirements on ESG criteria, because we felt that it's not really fair on early stage founders. And all of us who started the fund, we've all been there ourselves. We've all built startups ourselves, and we know, you know, how many other things that you have to deal with. And then having very specific things they report on at a very early stage, it does create quite a burden. But saying that, we're still trying to find out the balance and trying to figure out what is what we can ask for. The one thing I do like, and that we're kind of testing right now is having some kind of a prompt, where we give them an idea of what they could be considering, like, oh, are you thinking about a bike to work scheme? Or are you thinking about a parental leave policy? And then hopefully we can create the resources to help them with that. So it's more of a prompt, rather than it is about you reporting to us and then us using those figures to report to our LPs. And that we don't really do. So yeah, we're trying to figure out what the balance still is, to be honest. And I think it's, it's tricky because I think it's so important for them to think about these things. But at the same time, they should be able to do it at their pace and they should be able to do what's reasonable for the stage they're at. And a lot of the reporting requirements we're getting from like SFDR and things like, you know, the new European regulations about reporting for especially companies in the environmental space, they're just, they're, they're not, in my opinion, there is just too much for early stage startups. And it just doesn't feel fair that if you're working within climate or you're working in the environmental space, you have so much harder reporting regulations if you're trying to do something right, compared to if you're kind of general fund or general startup. And that's something that I'm a little bit against. So it's a tough balance. Yeah, so what I hear is, you know, make sure that they're not starting with a clean, you know, that they have something to work with, not just an empty sheet of paper. And then, yeah, I mean, how is it, we should be incentivizing people to do more good and less bad, no matter what kind of company or investor. You wanted to jump in again. Yeah, just adding one thing to what Heidi said. So we're really, really looking for companies where the impact is at the very core of the business operations. So it's actually the KPIs that we're primarily looking at are things that is very natural for them to track. So it's not that we're adding things on the sides, it's actually very much incorporated into the business model, which I think is a good differentiation to make. So as the company grows, their impact will grow and therefore sort of like your indicators of success are matched. Exactly. But I know you were talking when we kicked this discussion off about you sort of bringing investors into the fund, but what's the relationship with startups you're looking at right now? How do you feel about this, you know, with the questions you ask and the level of detail you need? Yeah, I mean, I think it's important to embed this in sort of a larger context. So in 1970, famously, Milton Friedman wrote this op-ed in the New York Times saying the only responsibility of a company is to increase value for its shareholders, right? And so I think we were coming off a time period where things got ever more focused on financial success metrics as the sole metrics of a company. And I think it's very important to swing the pendulum back towards understanding that corporations have a broad responsibility to their employees, to their communities, to society at large. The question then becomes, and that's I think what we're discussing here is, how important is measurement of that versus genuinely caring and so, you know, and at what stage do you do how much, right? So if your TPG and you raise funds in like $3 billion increments, like to have some people do ESG reporting is like trivial, right? If your union square ventures and our climate funds $160 million, do we really want to spend a lot of money on ESG reporting? It's a climate fund, right? So almost by definition, the things we're investing in are companies that are going to have an impact on the climate. And the way we think about it is like, we will succeed as a fund if the companies have a big impact on the climate and if they have a big impact on the climate, they're doing something very good. And so do we then want those companies to have to fill out some form that, and those forms, I think have largely been thought up by bureaucrats, sorry for using that as a slightly derogatory term, I don't mean it that way, but it's not connected to the realities of startups. Yeah. We've been talking a lot about ESG and impact conceptually. I'd love to go around and just hear one deal you've done, one company that inspires you, one relationship where you've gone on a journey of ESG and impact. So just talk me through one company. So the room here is, what does this look like in practice? Anybody want to kick off? It could be good, bad, or ugly by the way. It doesn't have to be your favorite. It could be your least favorite you've ever come across. I just want to throw out an anecdote because I think it illustrates how hard it is to think about some of these things. So we were the first investors in Twitter and when we first invested in Twitter, people were like, you guys are stupid, who wants to hear what somebody else said for lunch, you know? And then later it was like, you guys were absolutely stupid, you had to storing democracy, right? So it went from like, you're idiots because nobody cares about this to like, you were idiots because this is like really terrible. Were you ever smart in the middle? No, I don't think so. Well, maybe briefly when we had our IPO and I guess everyone was like, yeah that was really smart. So my point is, I think impact is actually really hard to understand. And we're dealing with climate, for example, a lot of us here and like there are plenty of people who are saying EVs are bad because you're going to need batteries. Electric vehicles. Electric vehicles and the batteries are going to require rare earths, which are being mined in China in really bad circumstances. And for example, a lot of ESG funds cannot invest in mining companies because mining companies often have bad labor practice, bad governance problems, and yet we need a lot more mining. So these problems are actually a lot harder, I think, than one might sort of just think at surface level. Well, you brought up a really important topic that we might get to in the other examples too, which is ESG, three letters, but with a lot of interdependencies, you know, good governance underpins everything in a company. Environmental success might have social implications, positive or negative, and vice versa. If you're trying to save lives, it might take up some more carbon. I mean, there's some, especially when we talk about infrastructure plays and emerging markets, anyone else want to jump in with an example and maybe even a feature of that tension that is there sometimes? I could highlight one company that I want to really highlight as a positive, which is one of our portfolio companies, N-Ride. They're providing- What is it, N-Ride? N-Ride. They're providing autonomous electric trucks that can really change the transformation, the transportation sector. And the one trade-off that you could look at there is, of course, sort of the electrification that you've already mentioned with the components going into that, but also that the autonomous part will, of course, make some people lose jobs, and we're very certain that there will be other more meaningful jobs, but that is, of course, a trade-off in the short-term perspective specifically. So that's something we thought about when we made that investment, obviously backers, so really, really positive, but something we took into consideration. Yeah, watch and mitigate as you go. Exactly. But you thought the climate benefits of this investment, based on what information were they able to give you? Basically, so the electrification part, of course, if you compare that to the diesel trucks, which is mainly the fuel that is used today. So, yeah, that was a trade-off. Thanks. In terms of the trade-offs, it is something that we're constantly discussing, and it's always, it's very complicated, because we are a climate tech fund, but then you do have to think about, I mean, as an example, this is not an investment we did, but we looked at COCO. We looked at doing a company that does, essentially, an artificially made COCO, and then we thought about the fact that, okay, but if we make this investment, it's great for the environment, because COCO farming isn't necessarily so great and sustainable, or, however, what is the impact when there's five, six million COCO farmers on certain countries where it's the biggest export? What is the impact if we kind of pull the plug very quickly, for example? And it's very hard questions, and it's not necessarily on our shoulders always to take that, but I think the considerations that we should have, and this goes with the kind of thoughtfulness around the decision-making that, you know, we do try to kind of dig into these things and think, oh, but what would happen? Is it good in the long run? What are the short term consequences? But are there better long-term consequences? And, yeah, these are constant discussions that we have at our fund to try to kind of think out and think bigger, and, you know, is this actually good for humanity, or is sugar good for humanity? Is it what is the social impact of us investing in sugar in general? Like, it's the very big questions. But to give an example from our portfolio, not on the trade-off, but more in terms of the kind of impact and impact measurement, one of our portfolio companies is Betta Fish that you can all taste here today as well. And they make a sandwich, they make a tuna sandwich out of seaweed. And for us, the impact here was the seaweed. We, as a fund, we were super excited about seaweed because seaweed de-acidifies oceans, it sequesters more carbon than land-based plants. Like, it was a no-brainer to use this ingredient. So for us, then, then making a product and a product that people love is amazing, and it's like an extra bonus. But from an impact's perspective, we are really thinking about the demand they're creating for seaweed and how that actually impacts the environment. So it's not really even that related to the end product in that sense, it's just an example how we kind of view impact. And we went really deep down into seaweed. And I think most people here trying the sandwich would not even know it's seaweed. But there you go. Now I gave it away. If you haven't tried it yet, go test out whether you think the tuna is seaweed. And is sugar good for humanity? It's going to be a takeaway from this. Definitely not. I think we all agree on that. Well, I wanted to say governance, too, is a complicated topic, right? So we're just in the middle of a deal, which may or may not happen, where the founders have asked for 10 to 1 super-voting shares on the theory that they feel like that they are better stewards of the environmental mission of the company than investors might be. And so, but does that make good governance? You know, it probably doesn't actually make good governance when, you know, there's no outside balance when the board doesn't actually have any input. So I think these are complicated questions. And maybe the key thing to take away is that there's a group of people in the world, and I think people represented here on stage who are very serious about these. And then there's a group of people in the world for whom this is like another check the box list. You check all the boxes and you're like, done. Give me ESG money now, please. You know, and I just think we got to avoid that. We got to avoid taking something that comes from a good place and turning into a check the box. Now I'm ready for ESG money. So you raised a really important point just to clarify, because I know there's been a lot of other sessions on we've talked a lot about the products we're investing in. But ESG looks at two things, right? It's about how a company runs, how it treats its employees, diversity, inclusion, right? There are a lot of elements of how a company does what it does and what it produces for the world. And often I think we don't we talk about one or the other, but really just important for everyone here to think, you know, it's about how you treat your employees and the environment through your operations, your practices and the products you create. So if I'm listening to this amazing panel so far, I might think it's a little complicated. This sounds like a treacherous journey. But there's a reason you were here. There's a reason that we are looking at this and asking these questions. What's the opportunity? Like I'm hearing a lot of open questions. Why what's what's the upside of thinking through this for an investor or for an entrepreneur? Yeah, I think I mean, not thinking about this, you will definitely miss out on things. I think if we look into the future, some of the biggest companies out there, we think will have impact at the very core. Those are businesses that are here to stay. They're addressing problems that are unfortunately here to stay in the foreseeable future. And they will have a competitive advantage in terms of attracting talent and consumers and the capital. So I think that's something you should look at into the on the upside part of things. And if you're not assessing the ESG related risk, I think you're also going to be in trouble because you will be building companies that may not be built in the best way and sooner or later that those risks will maternalize, materialize. So I think it's really about really assessing the upside and potential risks. And if you're not doing that, you should start. You should watch out. Excellent. And I can add that we are actually, we don't see ourselves as an impact fund. We don't necessarily see ourselves as an ESG fund either. We are a climate tech fund, but we must think climate tech because we believe this is also the biggest economic opportunity. The whole world has to shift to this in a very short time. We have regulations. We have all these countries saying they're going to be net zero in a very, very short time. And we have a very urgent crisis that we have to solve in a very, very limited time. There's a lot of urgency here at play. So we believe everything's kind of coming together. And we already, since we started the fund, we've already started seeing this on a much broader scale in terms of the rest of the investment landscape, essentially waking up to this. But this is a huge financial opportunity as well. It's for us, this is, it just, it just makes sense in every single aspect for you to think more about impacts. And everyone's going to have to put money into solving these problems because these are the biggest problems we're solving for humanity right now. And if we don't solve that we will not be here. So there really isn't a way to kind of try to get away from this and says, oh, I'm not going to think about impact. I'm not going to think about ESG and I'm not going to think about what I'm actually doing because, you know, if we all do that, we just won't have anything to save anymore. So for me, it's just, it's just such a given in every way that we are looking ahead as these are the biggest problems and therefore the biggest opportunities. Therefore the big, where we're going to be putting most money. So whether you want to look at it from an economic standpoint or from an impact standpoint, the end result is going to be the same. Got it. Thanks. Albert? Couldn't agree more with both of what you said. Climate is the defining challenge for humanity today. I think the other really huge issue out there in the world is the income and wealth distribution and how completely lopsided it has become. And in our core fund, our investment thesis has been to broaden access to knowledge, capital and well-being. The idea being that one of the biggest opportunities is to use digital technology to make the kind of things that have been accessible to wealthy people for a long time, like good education, good health care, good financing to make all those available to everybody in the world. And we think that's another huge problem that's also represents a huge opportunity. And then why should one care about some of these things early on? Well, you should care about diversity early on because if you build a company of 20 dudes, you're not going to be able to hire a great woman because who would want to work there? And so like sometimes founders are like, well, I want to focus on product market fit first. And so I'm not going to pay any attention to any of these other things until I have product market fit. But frankly, if you build a company a certain way and you get to a certain stage, it's too late. You're going to you've set the DNA of the company. And so I think certain things you can wait and others you've just got to deal with from day one. I'm really glad you raised. You know, we talked a lot about climate tech up here, but inequality by biodiversity. We have a bunch of things to deal with. There's a term flying around UK and Europe a bit, the just transition, right? So if we're going to build a world that is climate friendly, let's put it that way, you know, people are going to feel impacts as well. And we need to bring both along on the journey. I think inequality, especially in how we do our investments and in the companies that we back is a really under discussed in ESG and impact as a topic. So thank you for bringing that up. Albert, especially because USV does stuff other than climate, there might be entrepreneurs and investors in the room that wouldn't call themselves any of the tags. They're not just focused on climate opportunities. Maybe they're an entrepreneur who's building something amazing, but it doesn't have impact at its core. Is there still stuff that other that you also talked about how you build your team and all of that? But would you say, you know, pivot completely and just solve a problem that needs solving? Or would you say, what would you say to them, you know, about ESG and impact? The only thing I would say is, if you're going to be an entrepreneur, work on a problem that you genuinely care about. OK, I hope you're all doing that. And bonus points if it's saving the world at the same time. Any other tips for entrepreneurs out there who are, you know, I agree with that. And I think that the main thing here is that, you know, even though as a climate tech fund, it's very obvious that there'll be a positive impact on the climate. I think that every startup, every company we build has an impact. It has an impact on someone. It has an impact on something. Some of them are negative impact. Some of them are kind of neutral, but it's good for someone, but it's not a huge impact. And some of them are like, have an enormous impact on the world in some way. But I think the important thing is about being thoughtful around it. I would definitely, you know, if you are thoughtful around what you're building and you're realizing that it's definitely a lot more negative and I don't see a path that this is ever going to be positive, then that should be a red flag and that should be a wake-up call. And the same goes for investors. If investors are investing in these companies, I think the good thing is to do these type of assessments so that you get to a point that you actually feel like, will I be proud of what they build if they truly succeed? And if you've been thoughtful about it and you made that decision and you think it's going to be better in the long run, then I think that's completely fine. But yeah, I think impact is something that, you know, we should talk about and we should measure and we should figure out we should have kind of as part of every company's essentially mission or every company's purpose should be to know why do they exist and if you can't answer why you exist and if you can't justify that it's good for anyone, then maybe think about it a bit longer. When it comes to you and throw in a curveball question for everyone to think about, if you're new to this term, ESG and impact in the audience, what's your one favorite resource? Who would you follow on Twitter? Who would you, what newsletter would you sign up for? So I just want to, if start brainstorming that and did you have anything else to say on entrepreneur motivation here? Yeah, can I start with that one? Because I think one important point to make is that just looking back on one generation or even not that long, I think you were kind of first doing a career and then you were giving back. I think now more and more people realize that you don't really have to choose. You can make an excellent career and I say you've highlighted before, I mean, this is a great business to be and you can make a lot of money here. So you can have a great career, you can make a lot of money and you can make the world better. Like why would you choose another path? That's maybe a question I would have. That's how obvious you make this whole thing. Just like, come on guys. You're better, so, yeah, cool. All right. I think though, it's some of the potentially biggest impact things are not gonna be liked by everybody. So for instance, we've made an investment in a company in Geneva called Transmutics that's building a new type of nuclear reactor. And there are a lot of people in the environmental community who are like, who, why are you doing this? We don't need nuclear. We can get there on wind and solar alone. And I think some of the potentially most impactful things, it's entirely possible that Transmutics doesn't go anywhere, it's entirely possible that we can get there on renewables. But there's also a scenario where we can't get there on renewables and then we really only have two options which is geothermal and nuclear. And we haven't had a lot of innovation in nuclear in a very, very long time. And so I do think if you have conviction as the entrepreneur, you have to be willing to do things that might be seen as unpopular, including by people in the climate community. We're fully on board on that. We should talk nuclear afterwards. I wanted to just add that I 100% agree with that. And I would say that it really goes with the thoughtfulness of both as an investor to having been thoughtful of why are we doing nuclear, having done your research and really making a commitment to say that we believe it's a good investment, we believe it might be necessary in the future. And the same goes for the entrepreneurs. They have done their homework. They know why they're doing this and they believe that this might be necessary. And then it's not, you know, the whole world would judge whether they think that impact is positive or negative or whatever, but... Yeah, there's judgment involved in all of this, but as long as we can talk about it. But the important thing is that the thoughtfulness was there from both parties. So let's talk about it, right? And so we're coming to the end of this amazing panel. I hope you guys have learned something. I'm gonna do a rapid fire round. ESG efficient? Done right, yes. Yes, it can be. But it can also become a burden. Albert? I second what Heidi said. Okay, ESG, is it enough? No, it's definitely not enough. I think you have to start with, if you want to have a big impact, you have to build something that can self-sustain. By the way, that doesn't mean it's a for-profit. You can have a self-sustaining non-profit, but you have to do something that can scale in a way where it doesn't constantly need to go back to either investors or donors. I think that is the key to having big impact on the world. So ESG alone is not sufficient in any way, shape or form. Great tip, great tip. Is it enough? No, I don't think it's enough. It's a good starting point, it's good for assessment, but we need a lot more in terms of what impact is and thinking about these things in a longer term. And financial sustainability, all coming together. Yes. ESG, enough? Not enough. ESG won't save the world, but if we invest in positive impact, I think that could do the trick. Awesome. Did anyone think of resources or things that you would sign up to leaving this session to learn more? Inspired by anything? Follow us all on Twitter. Okay, all of that on Twitter. Or any other platform. He's not pitching Twitter. And final word of advice from all of you for people leaving this session. We've already given a bunch or warnings, words of warnings, anything else that you'd feel sad not saying to this amazing slash audience. Thank you guys for being here. Yeah, I think like try to move away from the ticking the box exercise and really think about, you know, how to assess the upside and potential risks. That would be my advice. Perfect. I'm gonna slightly repeat something I said earlier, but really. Reinforce. Yeah, really to reinforce the fact that everyone has an impact. And I think it's really important for both startups and investors to realize that and in some way to be thoughtful around what that is. Whatever they call themselves. Whatever they call themselves. Whatever industry. There isn't like an impact company that has an impact, but actually every single company out there. Final word? Nothing to add. That was perfect. Nothing to add. Thank you everyone. And thank you to the amazing panelists. Thank you.