 Good afternoon everyone we'll call the meeting to order today's meeting of the Santa Rosa City Council on December 4th 2018 We had no closed session or study session today. So we'll get right into our regular meeting Miss Gomez would you announce the role, please? Let the record show that all council members are present Thank you very much and We have no presentations or proclamations Mr.. McGlynn is there a staff briefing there's not a staff briefing tonight We will have one on the 18th a lot of the staff that's been involved in the recovery was assisting over the last few weeks And butte County and in Southern, California Thank you Mr.. McGlynn do you have a city attorneys report I? Do not have a city attorneys report I Hope briefly say that the parks and recreation Recreation and parks department hosted the 45th and 44th annual Handmade holiday crafts fair at Finley Community senior community center and person senior wing this past week in 92 artists sold handmade goods and over 3,000 shoppers enjoyed the entertainment food and it sounds like it was a good time had by all. Thank you And Miss Gallagher do you have a city attorneys? I do not have anything to report this afternoon. Thank you any statements of abstention from the council tonight Mr.. Tibbets from the November 13th minutes Thank you, you know and Mr.. Sawyer, thank you Moving on to mayors and councils reports Who wants to start anything on this side? This comes Thank You mayor I Had the pleasure of hosting a sort of town hall community engagement program on Saturday here in the chambers Looking at or asking for community engagement regarding the Homeless solutions and how folks might want to use the up-and-coming heap funding since the Continuum of care the newly formed continuum of care Maybe talking about that on December 10th. I thought it made some sense to ask the public some questions We had a really good turnout about maybe 80 people 60 of whom took part in a In a voting process at the end Jenny Lynn spoke for Catholic charities on permanent supportive housing Mark from Burbank housing spoke on the need for building apartments is a long-term solution Marion from the living room spoke on purchasing housing to create supportive housing And Scott from homeless actions spoke spoke on tiny home villages for emergency shelter It was a lively conversation Easily went the two hours we have had scheduled for it Lots of lots of interest saw some faces I had not seen before was pleased with that and Appreciated attendance by my council colleagues Tom Schwedhelm and Jack Tibbets. Thank you for coming After we had had the conversation again about 60 or 80 people about 60 of them voted by placing dollars that we had Monopoly type money in sacks under various headings 67% of the monies went into a sack that had the heading capital improvements though a lot of that funding involved safe parking and Tiny home or bridge housing I will come back with more detail assessment and analysis of how folks were looking at how we should provide services It was a I think it was a good opportunity to have public comment here with the public wanted to say about it And I will remind folks that the COC meeting on Housing and homelessness and on how we use the heap funding will be held on December 10th That's somewhere between four and twelve million dollars that we're talking about for funding for homeless services or homeless housing Capital improvements meaning the house part of housing tomorrow, I'm going to be flying to New York for three days to attend a CASA which is the Committee to house the Bay Area. It's the regional committee On a fact-finding program where we will be meeting with a lot of different folks in New York City regarding a Program they have called affordable New York I'm looking forward to hearing how New York City manages its affordability and On how it is providing tax waivers for Developers who build apartment complexes with certain percentages of affordability and if it could be transferred as a policy to California So I'll brief you on that when I get back. Thank you This comes do you have the time and place of the continuum of care meeting on December 10th? It's they're always held at the CDC offices, which are off of Gernvill Road. That's 1,400 Gernvill Road I think that sounds right and I don't have the time with me. Do you have the time on your phone? 10 o'clock in the morning December 10th. Thank you December 10th any other council members reports I Just wanted to congratulate the the successful candidates for City Council the Final vote was announced yesterday council members Schwedhelm and Sawyer were re-elected and The new council member will be Victoria Fleming. I'm sure she'll be a really good addition to the council With that we'll move on to the approval of minutes item 11 other than the abstentions are there any corrections or additions We'll show those approved as submitted and move on to the consent calendar mr. McGlynn Item 12.1 resolution fifth amendment to general services agreement number F is 001312 with Allen Troxel DBA Troxel HVAC for HVAC equipment maintenance and repair Item 12.2 Resolution approval of two agreements for legal services with Jones Hall Bond Council relating to issuance of water and wastewater revenue refunding bonds Thank you mr. Glenn any questions council. I'm sorry. I need to abstain from the October 30 meeting minute The October 30th minutes. Thank you Any questions on 12.1 or 12.2? Mr. Schwedhelm had a question on 12.1 Thanks for coming in the only question I had it looks like this The reason for this extension or the this change is that a state mandated Change the increase the compensation from 130 dollars an hour to 145 But I didn't see what is the state mandating that increase the compensation from 130 dollars an hour to 145 Council member that came from the Department of Industrial Relations So it increased the prevailing wage so they had to pump up the price of their contract the hourly rate So I'm guessing 130 bucks is more than prevailing what wage or 145 is correct right Could use and I get it. Thank you for that explanation I would like to see the breakdown. How do they get to 145 dollars an hour and if prevailing wages x percentage I could I just see those figures You can't council member, but we have to get that for you. That would be great. Thank you Any other questions Okay, I have no cards on the these items Mr. Rogers I will move items 12.1 and 12.2 of the consent calendar and wait for the reading of the text second And that passes with five or seven eyes Being too early for uh, the public comment portion of the of the agenda will move on to report items 14.1 Mr. McGlynn item 14.1 report advertising policy and guidelines jason nut director of transportation and public works presenting Good afternoon. Mayor Corsi and members of the council jason nut director of transportation and public works, and I'm joined by Julia Gonzalez marketing and outreach coordinator for the transit division and public works And we're happy to come and talk about our advertising policy again Back on february 27th of this year We did bring the advertising policy to you in a different format At that particular meeting you requested that we Um Move we that we hold off taking action and that we reformulate the program and come back to you with more details and information We've been doing that over the last several months. We believe we've got a proposal That we are putting in front of you that we think meets all of the needs That you've expressed and so Here we go So as we've said in the past there are no existing policies associated with advertising within the city On any particular city program or power or facility And we've we've traditionally been risk averse. It's it's it's an idea that If we if we were to strictly manage our advertising program by not having an advertising program Then we wouldn't run a foul of any potential concerns or interactions along the way with any with any With any requests that we don't necessarily want to handle um With that said over the course of many years the city bus has specifically been looking at whether there's a way that We can incorporate advertising into and on to our facilities And that's part of what we want to bring forward We did as you remember back in february and one of the things that caused a little bit of angst Was we we didn't specifically limit the facility to transit facilities We open it up because we thought other departments might be interested in this in particular We receive feedback from parking and recreation and parks that they may show interest in being able to utilize this policy On facilities that they own and operate based on the feedback We've eliminated that as a possibility for this first go-around And it may come back at a future date if we find that we're successful at managing an advertising program That meets the needs of the council and the organization as a whole Along with that was clarifying some of those policy statements that we had in there There were definitely questions that the council had at that time in february that we needed to go back And do a little deeper dive refine those numbers or those those uh that language a little bit so that we knew exactly what The statement was intended to say How we got here was we spent some time looking at a number of different organizations And as we expressed previously we landed on the nap of valley transit authority as their policy seemed to be comprehensive It seemed to be clear It seemed to be simple and easily understood and it was and we thought it best fit the operation that we had And so we reutilized that within our own operation We did pass this by other departments and while we're not necessarily incorporating other departments into our into the proposal We do know that that the guidelines that we're establishing could be in the future Should the council choose to do so? Expanded to include other departments at another time We did you pass this by the city attorney's office? They've reviewed it and they've consented to the methodology and to the language that's been incorporated and we believe that The way the policy is written that we have the ability to strictly Regulate the type of advertising coming into and being displayed on the city's facilities And in doing so looking at other organizations And transit operations that have similar policies. We think we could conservatively realize up to about a hundred thousand dollars of revenue a year By managing this program and i'm going to get into some of that I'm going to let julia get into some of that here shortly because that was one of the other pieces of feedback was we're uncomfortable Approving a policy when you haven't told us how that policy might be rolled out and what that looks like And so julia has done that research and I will let her get into some of that detail here shortly So to remind you we did have a number of items that we identified as being Potential areas of concern and areas where the policy specifically regulates the way the language is is expressed We uh, we did provide you with that policy document. Um, unfortunately The original document that was provided was an older version You've since been provided at both a red line version and a clean version of of the mock-ups that are consistent with the conversations That we've been having over the last several months. I apologize that we grabbed the wrong one out of the file With that said the areas that were of primary concern for council were tobacco Cannabis alcohol and firearms. Those were the areas that You expressed the most The most concerns with those are the areas we spent the most time Re-evaluating how we were going to present that information how we were going to set the type of restriction And how the language was going to look so that we could ensure that moving forward We had the ability to regulate advertisement requests that came into into the operation So with that i'm going to turn it over to julia and have her go through what she did in reviewing What a policy in pro what what a program implementation of the policy might look like and how we somewhat arrived at the concept of about $100,000 of annual revenue So I uh approached eight uh transit agencies eight regional transit agencies and asked about how they managed their advertising program and there was a great variety in terms of um, how they went about managing it and that that variety had a lot to do with The types of assets that they had available The market in which the advertising appeared and In this type of case of this type of advertising the market is basically the service area that a bus would Run its typical route in And what I found was that about 50 of the agencies that I surveyed Opted to manage their advertising program in house And then the other half opted to contract with an advertising sales firm For the management and there are there are pros and cons to um to either model Next slide so um On the left is a list of the agencies that I spoke with that manage in house Regionally we have sonoma county transit petaluma transit Solano transit um and then marin which has a portion of their vehicles Running advertising through a contract that they have with golden gate transit But they're interested in launching their own advertising program I want to point out too that Solano transit authority and marin both went out Issued requests for proposals From transit rather from advertising sales firms to to manage their advertising program and they received zero response So they're looking at um and launching a program managed in house as well so um Let's talk about one of the pros and cons of advertising in house. Um, these types of Programs tend to be better suited to agencies that have smaller fleets And smaller service areas and we city center was the city bus is in that category When you factor in the number of vehicles that we have in our fleet our buses and paratransit vehicles that we could Put put advertising on we're looking at about 47 vehicles um A big Pro to this type of advertising is that it would allow us to give preference to local advertisers to keep the cost Down in a manner that it would make it Affordable for a local and a small business to use this advertising And then we could also have control greater control about the frequency and um the types of ads that that appear We would have final approval of any ad and any ad content That feature is something that even if we were to go with a outside ad agency We would still have final approval of of the final artwork In this case advertisers will be responsible for their own graphic design and and production we would set them up with local Companies that could do that One ahead, right I'm still there. Yeah And and then we the the center of the city bus our operations team would be responsible for the installation and removal of the ads again, because it's Managed in-house it allows us to keep the cost lower On a monthly basis. I personally receive about four inquiries From advertisers interested in advertising on our buses and I've just have a running list of people I keep telling them we don't advertise yet, but we may soon Let me hold on to your contact information and that list includes a variety of of local nonprofits hospitals service agencies So we have a pretty good variety already kind of just waiting in the wings to get the green light to begin advertising It would allow us to keep 100 of the revenue and that's something that we hope to Use for shelter maintenance and other transit operation expenses Like all other agencies our plan is to keep a percentage of the ad space available for self promotion And that would be something also that could be made available to other city departments. For example each year we advertise On the interior of our buses for the um Earth Day festival That would be a place that we would save space so that we could you know promote our own events And and keep that available Like other agencies We're only talking about advertising on the exterior of the bus on the interior that spaces is tends to be reserved for Messaging that's needed to give riders And historically center osa city bus has made that space available to nonprofits right now For example, we're running an ad for the redwood empire food bank and their services And then the cinema county united way is running a campaign on A blood pressure high blood pressure awareness We run those types of ads our hope is to continue to make that space available for free to local nonprofits So in the case of firms or other agencies that that contract with an advertising firm Again, this is this is better suited to agencies that have larger fleets and larger service areas in particular if they're running in a large metropolitan area There really is no ability to control the types of ads the frequencies of the ads It's really, you know, who the advertising sales firm sells to Um The transit agency would have final approval of the ad content And all graphic design and production and installation and removal of the ads is handled by the ad agency So in our case if we were to go this route it would require Bringing a bus into the field in from the field and if we're talking for example about a wrap being installed It would be taken out of service The wrap would be installed the ad agency would take care of that They probably have a subcontractor to handle that and then we would be able to You know get the bus back in the field once that was uh fully in uh fully in place The There was a great variety in the way agencies split the revenue sharing With the ad agencies it tended to be someplace between 60 40 50 50 There was one extreme example in the case of butte county where they shared 90 the butte county transit authority got 10% and then the ad agency took 90 So there's the there's a whole spectrum in there What I did find was that most had built in a guaranteed revenue clause into their contracts And then there was a trend that that was emerging when I spoke to these agencies is that The ad sales agencies were starting to Opt out of selling advertising on shelters. So they were Either letting that part of the contract Laps and not renew it or not opting to to initiate a contract of that type and that had to do Primarily with the increased costs of maintaining shelters. And in some cases I'll use the example of butte county. They have shelters that are very dispersed. It's a large service area They was just a lot of Travel to get out there and maintain those shelters Okay So these are examples of what we Thank you, mayor before you move on to the examples was your hundred thousand dollar estimate net of staff time Yes, yes, great. Thank you. And I think that's a conservative estimate Um These are examples of our buses what they might look like with advertising on the back right now We don't have hardware installed on on the back of our buses for those types of advertising It may be that we may we may not need hardware. There are types of Vinyl decals that could be affixed And I just you know need to do some research in terms of just you know, what is the One of the specs on those what's the shelf life, you know, can they handle being out in the rain certain temperatures? But another model that I've seen is an actual hardware a case is installed onto the Rear of the vehicle and then a slot is available where an ad can be put it can be displayed So for us to advertise in the back of our buses we would need to invest in installing that type of hardware And then these are examples of what the sides of the buses Might look like this is space that would be available on the buses For for side advertising again decals possibly Another possibility is Using the window spaces And then this is a mock-up of what advertising may look like on one of our shelters. We have Shelters in around the city, but there are in particular Some high visibility areas where we have shelters I'm thinking about the shelters for example over on Mendocino Avenue right in front of the junior college or pretty much anything along that corridor Those are areas where there's great visibility and that's a that's a fantastic asset for for advertising And so Bringing this back before I talk about the recommendation Just to provide a couple of quick notes on changes in the policy The four areas that that council asked us to look back at we we made some we made some decisions based on the feedback And the decision was is that the business entities that might advertise those products is not the challenge The challenge is is the products that they sell And so the policy is written in such a way that would allow us to or will allow businesses to advertise the business Not allowing the business to advertise the products. So for example from an alcohol standpoint Kendall Jackson would be allowed to buy an advertisement relating to the winery as a facility as a place as a business It would not be a place where we would see bottle barn advertising their best special for any type of alcohol product and so The intent was to to support local businesses that we have in town and so the tobacco the alcohol and the cannabis Sections of this the prohibitions are specific to the depiction of consumption The specific product sale or the depiction of use of any of those products We felt that that was restrictive quite restrictive for those organizations But it still allowed us to promote the businesses that quite frankly we've we are promoting in many ways in this community The other was firearms And again similar to those others the idea was there's no ability to advertise product But advertising a business Was part of what we felt was reasonable at that time Based on the feedback. That's the way we've adjusted those four specific items Some of the other areas of concern related to social politics and some of the language that was included there We've gone back and reviewed that and we believe that we were that we are consistent in the the language utilized in those particular sections Is best practice moving forward and we don't think that we'll run afoul of any specific issues there So with that said We're recommending that or the the transportation public works department is recommending that council by resolution Adopt council policy number 000-69 titled advertising policy and guidelines And authorize the transit division to develop an advertising program for sale of advertising space That program would include the development of an advertising methodology as julia was talking about It would be standardizing the method with which those advertisements look like on the bus and what space it is that we would be selling And and so that's part of what we'll be developing if approved by council and we're happy to answer any questions Thank you Just want to add that the downtown subcommittee Had this in front of us last month's meeting about four weeks ago And a lot of comments from the community mostly positive One that stood out to me particularly lately was your last statement mr. Not was that as long as we stick to the kittens and puppies that are in the examples everything will be okay But the The folks who are at the downtown subcommittee meeting Were certainly in support of this and I think the committee was as well There may have only been two of us there or all three of us. Okay all three of us were Great questions council will start at the end mr. Tibbets Thank you, mayor. I have two questions the first was along the lines of what councilmember soyer asked which is Do you have any anticipated costs for salary and benefits for the position and is the position pte? So it will be an existing person spending time on the project or will it be a full-time employment position? So the best answer is is the young lady sitting next to me is our is our staff Her position is marketing and outreach. Um, she's exceptionally good at marketing and managing our program making us An entity that's sellable out in the community and I think she's going to have phenomenal success helping us gain advertisements and and advertisements of quality that we're going to be able to put on our bus to be honest If you had if you were able to come out and take a look at the new bus that we had stationed out in front Julia in particular has spent an enormous amount of personal time thinking about the aesthetics of what city bus is all about And so from an advertising standpoint when she's looking at what advertisements we're going to sell She's going to be working with those advertisers to make sure that they are high quality Very readable and and promote the best benefit of the city and the operation of city bus Great. Well, I'm really supportive of you doing it. Julia. So, um The second comment it might be more of a comment than a question But actually also a question for both of you in the downtown subcommittee on the issue of kittens and puppies Uh, you know when I was reading through the alcohol section of the prohibitions I was kind of thinking to myself. Well, we are wine country. What if a winery wants to advertise the facility? You kind of answered that question But then it raised in my mind. Does that create a gray area? What if I'm a cannabis facility? Am I then allowed to do a cannabis facility and then I started to think well, okay is is alcohol I seem to recall the county Promoting alcohol and I so I typed in so Sonoma county tourism And sure enough the 2018 visitors guide is four people walking with a glass of wine in their hand saying sift the best And I'm kind of just trying to think I mean, how do you how are you going to manage it? Is it going to be a discretionary process because I lean towards just saying You know Sacramento went through this they originally banned alcohol and then a few years later opened it up because they're having difficulty with that line and Just your thoughts on that and then maybe asking the mayor or members of the downtown subcommittee. Was there a lot of opposition to alcohol? Yeah, I think our intent is business business is what we want to promote We want to promote people coming into our community and shopping at our businesses and utilizing the services that they provide It's not necessarily the types of products that those businesses Sell that's that's their job to advertise And advertise elsewhere So the tourism bureau The way our policy is written Because it displays individuals enjoying alcoholic beverage that would not be something that we would indicate on ours However, if the winery were to show a picture of their lovely winery talk about their business hours and the tasting room is open Then that would be exactly what we would want to try to see advertised Similarly with cannabis business You know we've we've spent an enormous amount of time over the last couple of years figuring out how we were going to address And conform in some way to the state's new laws associated with cannabis production and sales and because of that we've somewhat embraced it in this community and Not wanting to turn our back on what we think could be a growing burgeoning business in this community We felt it was appropriate similar to alcohol that we provide them the ability to advertise their business Without the luxury of advertising a product So with the fear of sounding too Or letting my personal bias show see that's where I have some difficulty is is advertising that at all and I realize I'm probably not hip with the times in that regard, but I'm willing to to go with it see how it goes for a while One final comment is is relating to the shelters Just one concern that I have every big city I've ever been in those signs are You know graffitied and vandalized and they look like hell Um, so just keeping track of I don't know, you know how those end up looking in people's neighborhoods I think could end up being a little bit of an issue. So maybe when this report comes back to the council in the future Kind of telling us how that's working out because if that's generating $40,000 and the buses are generating 60,000 But it is making those shelters look kind of ugly and inconsistent with santa rosa Then I think we should look at not doing that We agree and and just to follow up on your first point, you know that We recognize we're breaking ground for the city in this instance by asking transit to be allowed to advertise to sell advertising space And we fully expect that along the way We're going to be potentially making adjustments to this policy And if we find that there's a place that council councils comfort level changes We have the ability to bring that back and make some make some additional changes to the policy Well, I think that's great. Let's you know go forward and give this a shot and fine tune it as we go Thank you This comes Thank you. I'm looking at the red line version that we have Uh, and I'm looking at 6.26 uh 2.6.2 2.6.3 2.6.4 and 2.6.5 That's tobacco cannabis alcohol and firearms And I'm looking for consistency in language Among them It appears to me that we have added to cannabis and alcohol the phrase target sales or used to persons under age 21 No, I believe that's a strikeout It shows it as being added on my red line version Not struck out. So i'm trying to figure out if it's Being added Why we don't have the same disclaimer under the tobacco section? No, I'm sorry that but if if that's the case then I'm I'm sorry if it's in red is struck out or is it It should be a strikeout I'm showing it as an underlined addition um, maybe it's So it depicts such products instead of depicts the use of such products Is that in or out the worst in 2.6.3? I have depicts the use of and the words the use of is in red So is it depicts the use of such products or is it just depicts such products? So councilmember, I apologize. This actually is not the most current version of the red lines Okay, so what I have in my packet also Is a little different from this is what I have in the packet the up-to-date one You should so there should be so that the packet that I have shows that Alcohol is 2.4.4. Yes, and it reads the advertisement promotes the sale or consumption of alcohol alcoholic beverages or depicts the use of such products Okay version that i'm sitting here reading in front of you in front of me Has the advertisement promotes the sale to or consumption by persons under the age of 21 years of beer wine Are distilled spirits and and that that has been removed From all of those for consistency and before us today Is it possible for us to see the correct version before we have a decision about it? Yeah, I apologize. Um, I'm sorry to we made some corrections to we made some adjustments with the attorney's office we forwarded this to The clerk yesterday and unfortunately it appears that the wrong version ended up getting uploaded. So My sincere apologies on that For those specific three we did we did conform all three language to be consistent And we did eliminate the Under 21 version of it because we didn't think it was necessary It's it's eliminated from all three And it is now a 2.4 and not a 2.6 item Yes, so the clean version Is the one that should read properly and I believe there should have been a revised one added to Your packet yesterday does does firearms? Include the phrase depicts such products Because it doesn't in the version i'm reading it does not and yet It seems to me that it would if it were consistent with the other items So I would ask that the phrase Depicts the use of such products or depicts such products Whichever one you ended up with in the other items be included on the firearms one Advertisement promotes the sale or use of firearms or in or ammunition And comma depicts such products We'd be happy to add that if agreed by council. So if I've understood what they all say You know, I'm willing to go forward with this tonight, but I would like to see the final version Yes, is it possible for us to get that is this the final version that's on the It's not The one is not that is not red line. Is that the final version? Yes. Yes, so we do This one that is in our packet is not the one that's on your Screen is the correct one. Okay. I have a red line on my screen The red line is the final version. I okay. I have a revised and a red line revised But um, this comes point is is still valid that the revised Non-red line does not talk about depiction under firearms and it does on the other three And I think that's your request Okay, I see it and I'm glad to see it. Thank you. I apologize for having three versions. I'm not understanding which was the Most current and that and that was and that's my fault. So I I'm sorry I've created the confusion but your point is well taken and I'm happy to add that if I actually so I would like to add The depiction sentence under firearms consistent with the other ones. Thank you for helping me do that Can I ask I don't see anything that talks about Differences in the inside and the outside of the bus with regard to nonprofits in this Is it here and I'm just didn't see it that's that's not included in the policy itself That would be that's a function of the equipment and the standardization of where advertising space exists Okay, so that we're leaving to you all to sort out when once we let go of this as a as a body That's correct. Can you remind me where does any Revenue go does it go to transit or does it go to the general fund the revenue will go directly back to transit? Okay, thank you and I again apologize for having Thought that the red line version was the red line of the other version that is actually the correct version And thank you Mr. Rogers Thank you, mr. Mayor. I think I'm working off of the right one now Uh, so in this version, uh, 2.4.18, there's actually two different Uh items listed as 2.4.18. So specifically the political and social issue advertising at the end Uh, I want to make sure that this doesn't preclude generic get out the vote efforts And I guess that's more of a question for for you sue Yeah, I understood I read it to be the case that you can do generic get out the vote efforts without advocacy for a particular candidate party or issue But I want to just confirm Yes, the generic get out the vote would be fine under this policy Great, and I'm not sure if it's in this version or if it was in a previous version But the director of the department was listed as the final arbiter for Decisions on whether or not an ad goes forward And my question is just a simple one to you. Do you have the capacity to oversee that In the event that you start to have challenges So that was part of the red line version that we provided that we were going to be eliminating that specific piece And the reason being is we have as I've been informed by the attorney's office. There are areas within the organization that already have a Um An appeal process and and as we adopt all of our standards for this We will incorporate in the appeals process that's consistent with the rest of the organization And that'll be part of that'll be part of our our advertising procedure Okay, so that won't be in the resolution that'll be in the operating policy. Correct. Okay, great. Thank you Any other questions Got a couple of cards on this. Gregory if you're on I'll be followed by peter churnoff Thank you, mayor and members of the council as both a retired public health administrator And a member of a lot of nonprofit boards I'm interested in this issue and I applaud you for your issues for your questions related to the former Um, I think you should be as conservative as possible about how you use your assets to promote things Which we have found in the past are unhealthy Um on the other issue of nonprofits I hope you'll be as progressive as possible in your policy development to allow a lot of us who are on boards And who want to get the messages of about our agencies about our services about who we are To be both inside and outside buses and on the shelters We need your help We need your partnership to be able to get our messages out and we think that this is a good move on your part To explore how we can do that. Um, I'm sure we're all gonna Participate in the policy Development a cooperative of a lot of us could probably standardize the process by which we submit Advertising materials. I think this is a doable thing and I applaud you for trying to move forward in that area. Thank you Thank you. Peter churnoff followed by dwayne duit Well, good afternoon It's good to see these students here. I hope they stay for public comment So I'm going to be mentioning something about john trudel. Then you should look up john trudel So i'm wondering signs everywhere Is it the mission? Or some kind of addiction For politicians to put signs everywhere It's like when you're running for office, there's signs everywhere. It's annoying I always thought why not have the two politicians fighting for a little spot that have a public Debate in front of the public But you don't do that. You just put a bunch of signs up and a lot of money this that and the other And there's reasons for that And so I'm listening to this here and i'm thinking about the censoring of certain things versus the psyops Of certain things you want to censor alcohol Or if you don't do don't censor it, then you want to make sure that everybody knows you got to be 21 years old to drink But yet it's okay to be 18 year old 18 years old go into the military and kill or die in the military And you want to censor cannabis medicines I was at the supervisors today And there was a veteran there who swore up and down that his cancer That did not get helped by any of the medical any of the other medical things Was cured by cannabis And you spend so much time with the cannabis issue As a medicine Which really doesn't belong in these hands or maybe it does. I don't know But now you're going to censor it because it's not medicine Which one is it? And then you're talking about Alcohol again, but you're going to allow kindle jackson to advertise because well, you know, they're very big and so To those of us who know we are in a slave status in inmate population We're always wondering Why are things being done a certain way? And I read here on 14 one. It's because In light of the current state of the industry and emergency budget considerations Why is there an emerging budget? Consideration that's an emergency or you're strapped for funds Well, the students should know if they haven't been taught That the treasonous and unlawful fed and irs They steal from this entire country 74 percent of their thievery comes from california That's absurd and unacceptable 85 percent of the taxes and 40 percent of tuitions goes to the israeli And military and american military And plus a lot of their Money from the high school students. So I think we should review this a little deeper and have some more serious thought Thank you, sir. My name is duane de wid. I'm from roseland. I've uh Been following this issue for over 17 years And i'm glad to see that the city has adopted an idea to allow advertising upon the buses Mr. Nutt has said that the finances will go to the transportation department I would ask that you notate today that it go for bus shelters Because essentially throughout the system Many of the people who use buses have to stand in the rain far out away from any other shelter And 17 years ago when I was on the project area committee for the southwest santa rosa redevelopment project area We were given supposedly $300,000 which would go for bus stops and bus shelters After the money was allocated someone in the transportation department took almost half of it to Configure the curbs at southwest community park to make what they called a transit center So there are three shelters there, but they're all Very much open to the wind and the rain So I would ask that when you use this advertising money That you specifically try to use it to get more riders on the buses by making the bus shelters more comfortable and weather proof The last thing is that 2.4 0.18 political and social issue advertising I do believe that you should be Allowing nonprofits and community betterment groups to put signs up there. They're called public service announcements And I do believe it's a very important thing for the community To understand who might be working in their area on what bus route they're on It's something that could be done Radio stations television stations give public service announcements. So i'm hoping the bus department Will have public service announcements for small groups Especially those that are ad hoc like we're trying to preserve the rosalind neighborhood over near rosalind creek But we didn't have the money to incorporate ourselves as a nonprofit But we're still out there given time and energy If it was comparable it would be in the tens of thousands of dollars So this is a way where you could help the community at the same time as you get your advertising revenue And it could help to have more bus riders get here safely And last but not least I'd like my comments tonight to be an honor of patrick gerome scott He died 20 years ago out on belview avenue while a student at lcl in high school Because we didn't have a good bus stop out there and as he walked in the dark He was killed by a car And so this is one of those things that you can make a win-win all the way around Use this advertising money to help the young people to ride the buses safely And dry with a shelter that protects them from the storm. Thank you very much for your time Thank you. I'll bring it back to the council if there are no more questions I'll get a motion on the table. Mr. Slayer, thank you, mayor for discussion I'll introduce a resolution of the council the city senatorism adopting council policy number 0000-69 Titled advertising policy and guidelines and way further reading second Is that as amended? Yes, and I'm gonna and I'm gonna change that when I have it before I do that. I'm gonna have a question Um First of all, um, I honor your your willingness to step into this fray of advertising. It won't be it's it's almost like a It was something that other councils and other staff members were not willing to do and so it is a It's kind of a big step in some ways. I I hope that you're ready for all the all the What situations that are gonna be coming before you as you move through this? Program is there any advantage to referring to this as a pilot program as far as doing a resolution or a Is there any any advantage to using the words pilot? Does it make it simpler to change in the future or not? Does it matter at all? Okay because I have a feeling like with the Shelters that I share council member tibet's concern and probably other councils council members here that just having a face Of any kind on a shelter is going to be a Ticket for a vandalism of some description But I'm sure you'll make adjustments as time goes on so I do want to add to the resolution In section 2.4.5 That it'd be that this following language should be added comma at the end of that sentence or the depiction thereof if that satisfies The intent thank you, sir Can we also amend the uh just fix the numbering for the political and social issue advertising Yes, I think that didn't I think it's fine. Didn't she say that that that it could stand? What was the other piece that it could stand as it was it's the numbering Yeah, they're both was a section 2.4.18 of the city code. It's the numbering. Yeah, okay Got that. Yes, we'll get that corrected. Okay, excellent So we We have the we have the motion to say further questions or comments mr. Tibbetz Thank you, mayor Um, I actually do have a question relating to the shelter question that there a comment that mr. Dewitt brought up How many bus stops do we know are roughly that are unsheltered or unseated if you will without benches just a stop We have about uh 425 bus stops and Approximately 80 of those have a shelter Has your department ever looked into what it would take to Shelter those both in terms of effort cost or putting a bench there? Yeah, so in the in the coming um calendar year There have been funds allocated to um install new shelters improve shelters improve existing facilities and um And and also just you know any type of advertising that we do on those would We need to really research the hardware that would be as vandal proof as possible Maintenance on those is is of prime importance for us. We have staff that maintain them every evening So just it you know, we'd be adding to the volume. Um, and and that's another Um benefit to a program like this because it would allow revenue to them be Utilized for that ongoing maintenance that's much needed Well, I'm looking at this from two perspectives, you know, I think that mr. Dewitt brings up a good point There tends to not be a lot of seats or shelters particularly in areas that haven't previously been part of the city Um, that would be probably a nice thing to add but I also recognize that bus routes change reimagining city bus May not make a ton of sense, but Then you've got the I don't know. I guess the conundrum if you will maybe people more people will use the bus if they have a place to sit and wait So So I'm happy to advance a conversation to miss ead about about shelters But I do want to make sure that we're having a conversation about policy separate from the congressman shelter The shelter has not been agendized. I know mr. Dewitt brought it up But just trying to keep the happy to to take that back under advisement and have a conversation about the shelter system Happy to do so. Sure. Thanks guys Vice mayor rogers Thank you, mr. Mayor. Uh, yeah, and I actually I was just gonna Try to pull us back on that as well that perhaps budget we talk about this revenue stream without allocating it into a specific Uh direction within the transportation department until we figure out Where we stand with our fiscal footing. I know that we've had that conversation over and over again I will be supportive moving forward with it. I actually I think if you ask the average person in this city if their advertisements on the buses They'll say yes right now because it's something that has become more mainstream I think that it is a good opportunity for us to invest in public transit here locally And if it's done right and a lot of it's going to be largely on you In terms of how this rolls out and what types of advertisements actually make it on the bus That's going to be a big I think that's going to be a big factor in whether or not this is successful So looking forward to it. Happy to see it move forward and we'll hopefully review it in the next couple of years This comes. Thank you. And uh, thank you for bringing this forward again. I apologize for for reading the wrong one Um And I appreciate my colleague the vice mayor's comments that we need to have that conversation in the context of the full budget Because I know many of my colleagues have discussed and since we have students here. I can't help but say it Have discussed either lower cost or free ridership for k through 12 So, uh, that might in fact be a place some of us would rather see the money go than to additional shelters So I think that we need to make that an open conversation. Thank you Any of the comments We have a motion and a second in your votes That passes with seven eyes. Thank you very much. Thank you Still a little bit before five o'clock we'll move on to 14.2 item 14.2 Um report renewal enterprise district David guin Assistant city manager and dav guine director of housing and community services presenting Good evening. David guin director of planning and economic development and assistant city manager and with me is dav guine director of housing and community services and also in the audience we have rice De La Rosa and ashley crocker from the city who have been we're extremely helpful on pulling this together along with our city attorney and then also from the county we Have margaret ventley Mike gossman and choreo donnell who were very helpful in pulling this together. So I just want to make sure that You know, they are here. I'm also here to help answer questions as needed So we're here to talk tonight about the formation of a renewal enterprise district joint powers authority we are In about a year in of doing creative Bold and new things. I'm trying to figure out how to solve the housing crisis how to deal with what we've been through And I you many of people many of you have seen this chart But again, it puts in perspective in terms of just in the city of santa rosa what we're dealing with In terms of number of permits issued per year over the past few years We were hovering in the two to three hundred permits issued per year Dude based on our arena numbers. We need to be building a lot more than that And that's a mix of Single family multi-family market rate and affordable housing is part of that On top of that we did have the fires in october which Exasperated the problem and so that's that's our challenge. And so what we've been doing over the past year Is looking for a creative and approach creative approaches to work together with the county Finding ways to change policies look at i'm expediting and to solve this problem. It's not going to be one Thing we do that's going to solve the problem But we're we're optimistic and we're hopeful that if we pull all this together all these policies and efforts together We'll see a solution to this this issue. But before you go if I may Just to clarify the the housing need shown here is the regional housing needs assessment housing need plus the fire But does not include housing 2003 thousand homeless people additionally that's an additional two or three thousand units. That's correct. Yes So we have we have a big problem to deal with thank you And to look at the county wide as a different approach Looking at in terms of what types of units have been built over the year in the decline in terms of the number of units being built over year Again each year we reduce the number of housing units. We build the further behind the curve we get So essentially this is what this shows Both multi-family and single-family homes dropping off and we're all well aware of the the cost impacts of that The cost increases of a median home price in the county continue to escalate Our low vacancy rates and the fact that we do enjoy the fact that we we have the community separators We have environmental protections on how we create our communities It's an important part of our community fabric. Is this something that we or we have pride in But it's also something we have to be be aware of and where we develop and how we develop And how we maximize use of the developer land we have so we can protect those spaces The fire like we talked a little bit about obviously there there's an increase in number of units that are on Buildable lots that are available this past year the single-family homelessness has dropped The trends and rent increases so the rent increases have continuing to go up It's caused secondary displacement an issue that is very important And something that we we are looking at how to address in terms of the housing stock And then also on the education side 600 student enrollment declined the impacts to the schools impacts to the jc Sonoma State I've been working with all the education Agencies in the county trying to figure out how to solve this problem together And bring everyone together And then also our low-income residents Are we're very We're hit very hard. So in terms of the rents available housing available stock of affordable housing Is something that we're trying to address as well Excuse me. Mr. Gouin is the 600 student enrollment decline. Is that a countywide figure? Yeah, that's the number we got countywide thank you So back in june the board of supervisors and the city council gave direction to staff to take a look at crafting a joint enterprise district APA joint powers authority and the thought was how do we create a structure a forum A platform to have the conversation to take a regional approach to housing So looking at we can't solve san rosa can't solve the large problem just in san rosa alone looking regionally How can we pull our resources together and approach this in a different way? so So what we did was we spent the past few months Work with the working group between the city of san rosa staff and the county staff I'm eating on a weekly basis trying to pull this together looking at what we can do to craft that Essentially Essential essentially a jpa bucket that then would be flushed out in a public process with members of the board Supervisors and the city council and we'll talk about that makeup in a minute But to to craft a approach that we can work together Find a way to prioritize and incentivize and encourage the type of development that we both the city and the county want to see And we'll talk about what those elements are as well We both the city had a group to check in with and the county also had a group to check in with And I also want to mention that the snow accounting transportation authority And regional climate protection agency susanne smith was an extra big help Obviously with her jpa and how that's worked The approach we took for transportation and a regional approach to transportation Is a model of how we could be looking at issues like housing and then also clean power working with jeff ciphers on how that worked And how we approach energy in our region as a as a regional approach So the concept is that Looking at this regional housing production pulling financing identifying financing from outside the area Bringing that in pulling it together and actually getting projects done that we want as a region Hopefully share the risks among amongst those developments Looking at streamlining. So we do have local streamlining approaches and how do we prioritize what we streamline And part of that could be projects that come out of this Are eligible for our local streamlining approaches And then also putting equity affordability and climate solutions at the center of our economic strategy So making sure that what we incentivize and what we encourage and what we want to see from a region hits these marks So the purpose is to focus on housing in specific areas Again, this is not creating new land use types where we're relying on our existing land use local jurisdictional land use approvals Define what's what we want to incentivize. What are the criteria? What what a streamlining look like where it's appropriate. How do we look for new partnerships? For public private partnerships, how do we bring the private sector to the table in more creative ways that we have in the past? Expand our pool and leverage those public funds And then also look at the use of our public land So we're currently doing that in the city of Santa Rosa and the county is as well How do we work together on on looking at all the lands that we have together and prioritize and work together to make those Used in the most appropriate way and then also leveraging resources we have from mtc and abag So the goals after all this would be to Address that unmet need Implement and then I think this is an important this implement the general plans and specific plans We want to maintain what we've already approved what the what the public has identified as where we want to build how we want to build and In honor of those community separators and boundaries So this is not changing those the general plan specific plan. Those have their own processes that we're going through now Incentivize the types of housing in those locations such as trans-oriented development priority development areas designated opportunity zones employment investment areas The goal is also to promote Zero net energy development. So how do we factor that into housing projects as they move forward? And we talked about ensuring affordability equity in these development projects And improve opportunities for area employees to recruit and bring employees to these areas in this tight housing market So a quick synopsis of how this we think this looks again, this is To be defined as we move forward. I know there's been some question about The lack of specific detail on what we're bringing forward The point of that is that we want to make sure that that is developed Through the board the council and the public as we move forward and what that criteria is But some of the things that we're looking at that we've heard from both the board and council that are important And from staff is affordability The location where where housing is located and other things such as energy efficiency products The thought is once we develop that criteria Then we would have go after capital get access to capital attract different capital to The region and then incentivize that to build housing and potentially even infrastructure to support housing So that that's the general concept of what we're trying to bring forward So in terms of what the board structure looks like we decided to start with a Two-year pilot approach Give it a shot for two years see how that works get it up and running Just the city and just the county that the only two agencies that are in this initial jpa that was in front of you And the proposal is that we have four elected officials on that jpa Two members of the board of supervisors and two members of the city council After that two-year period if if the board and the council city council would like to extend that and continue At that point the concept is that we would allow other jurisdictions to join And they'd have one seat each as they join Into jpa Some other details that are in the jpa in your packet The founding members voting so one vote per representative. So that's essentially two votes per jurisdiction for the first two years New members would get one vote per representative one vote. So essentially one vote per city at that point The governance review the jpa would hold public meetings On a regular basis it says after two years But they would hold regular public meetings. They would be brown act meetings But we would put it we did put in there that we would Force a meeting to happen at the two-year mark to check in And have a conversation about do we want to extend this continue it or stop stop it and try a different approach And so it also talks about including new members at that point as well the staffing is one that we looked at potentially needing somebody to help run the run the jpa somebody to manage the finances And staff to help get the meetings going At this point it could be a combination of city accounting staff or even contract staff to help make that happen So that's something that all happened as we get up and running In terms of the financing we'll be looking for grants potentially other state funding that's out there SP2 funding on the second round. We'll be looking at project-based funding And then also other financing from private capital that we can attract to the table For example a hewitt foundation Gave a million dollars to this effort already. They saw what we were trying to do Apparently the city a city in a county working together on housing issues is fairly unique in california So a lot of people are watching watching this to determine how we could do this and how it makes sense So that money is available to either to the jpa to figure out how to fund Either a project or programs or what would be the best use of it to move move this effort forward And then also the strategic strategic growth council Gave the jpa at about 350 000 dollars for startup as well So there's interest out there to see how this is going to work The other thing that we're keeping an eye on is redevelopment 2.0 And what that looks like and how to position ourselves To be in the best position to help influence that and also to help Figure out are we are we in a position to attract that? Move it and actually get it implemented as quick as possible if that moves forward So that's the high level summary of the The policy the jpa structure Some of the funding And so what we're asking today again This is from direction back in june to create this The board of supervisors heard this this morning as county staff brought it to the board of supervisors. They unanimously supported Moving this forward based on how the council acts tonight on this item. So what we're asking is that we recommend that The city council by resolution authorize approval of the jpa agreement creating the the renewal enterprise district the red Through a joint powers authority comprise initially the city of santa rosa in the county's sonoma To facilitate the development of housing and targeted geographic areas And it would also authorize the mayor to sign that jpa to initiate it And we're here to answer any questions Thank you, david Just want to mention that this has been the A topic of conversation for for our build and rebuild subcommittee of the council Since shortly after the fire We've we've had a joint ad hoc with County supervisors. We've had several meetings with them about this. It's been something we've been talking about for a long time Really happy to see it in front of us Obviously this the council Acted in or gave direction in june for us to bring this forward for staff to bring this forward today And I just had a couple of questions before I open it up to the council the You stopped on the part that talked about Public meetings after two years Just want to make sure that that's not what that means that there wouldn't be any public meetings Before two years. No, no, you're right. I apologize. We put that in there as a That will happen, but the intent is it will have regular public meetings In in the jpa it actually identifies that there will be at a location I believe the first one will is that is supposed to be in santa rosa and then the board at that point can determine where those locations are But the intent is the jpa would set that meeting frequency And there would be frequent meetings to have conversations about how this is formed what the Criteria are and how to move Spend some of the money that has already come in and this is not intended to be a continuation of the city county ad hoc This is intended to be a brown act body that has public absolutely Yes, so from this point forward once this jpa is formed It is a public body and will be a public meeting A brown act meeting to your point. Yes. Thank you And the other question I had is on the the financing you didn't mention tax increment financing and and was just wondering why not No, that's a good point. So another yeah another option is tax increment increment financing And I blurred that with redevelopment 2.0 But I think some version of tax increment financing Is something that we are looking at and we are meeting with the county to look at the viability of Of tax increment sharing and so it could be an efid. It could be some other forum that that are out there There's quite a few of them But that is definitely a revenue generation and what that would do is it would be a defined area And would have to stay in that area So that's something that we would work with the jpa to find the boundaries of where that Tax increment finance would be and that would have to be spent in that location Thanks, and I think that's really an important point because um, you know when we're talking about Why we're doing this? One one of the main reasons in my mind to do this is to have Joint tax increment increment financing districts. It just increases the power of those exponentially when both the city and the county are involved and To me that's a key part of this whole thing. So Questions from the council any over here? Yes, mr. Vice mayor Thank you, mr. Mayor I had to have the the question about the tax increment financing and it seems like an appropriate time to give a little plug that The legislature reorganized yesterday sp5 Which was introduced by senator mcguire and senator bell is the redevelopment 2.0 bill As far as I understand it moving forward. So hopefully we can bring back to the build rebuild committee Sort of a look. I know that the mayors and council members will obviously be Involved in that conversation and the governor is very interested in it. So I think that that conversation about Uh redevelopment 2.0 is happening now It's going to be sooner rather than later that we see something and how it plugs in with this um Obviously, this is designed really to be sort of a shell that will fill in as we go along and a lot of this Will be determined to buy the board When it comes to the two representatives from santa rosa How are they appointed? Is it appointed by the individual mayor or is it appointed as an entity of the body? I'm going to ask our city attorney to help me weigh in on this But I think from our discussions. It was the body that would appoint the two members Yes, it would be the body that appoints the two members Okay And then when it comes to contracting which is in the document, I got a question from the public about Who's contracting rules would trump or does the entity have to come up with their own contracting rules? So for example, if we revamp our local preference in the way of Of contracting Which has been working its way through long-term finance Would our policy be the one that is accepted or with the counties? The jpa is its own legal and separate legal entities. So it will decide what um Preferences it might want to To establish okay, and so that would take place after the organizing of the the first Right once once the board is constituted with the two representatives from the county and the two representatives from the city They will then make those decisions and set in place What policies and programs they have? Okay, and then the the final question that I received from folks was specifically about jurisdiction So I know we we talk about pda's transit oriented areas Opportunity zones is there a specific map that we are looking at for where this applies or is this just anything that meets those broad criteria Yeah, there is no map. So the the intent of the jpa is to form a regional collaboration and a regional approach So the the the board will have to determine what those locations are what we've identified our areas that our plans focus and and Expect that type of intensity or that type of development But that's a conversation for that board to have and identify but there is no map. This is again a Joint powers authority to create what that looks like and focus. So if we go back to I think it was This this slide here basically the concept one of the first thing in terms of criteria is Locations, where do we want to focus is how do we want to identify those locations? And what are those criteria for development? Yeah, I appreciate that and then this is more of a comment than a question But I do appreciate when we first started having this an easier way for me to think about How we move forward with this conversation is what projects will we never say no to? So if it's appropriately located has a certain level of affordability is environmentally Friendly and advances our climate action plan There's very little chance that we would say no So how do we come up with both a streamlining as well as a finance Stacking to actually get these projects off the ground and so that's the way that I look at it And I'm very happy to see it in front of us. Thank you. Great This comes Thank you, mayor I want to echo some of the concerns of the I had similar conversations with the public with regard to ensuring that There was sufficient transparency As we move forward with the subcommittee on transparency That actually is meeting Thursday night looking at some new rules There is some I have some concern about how we are Making it harder for the public to have input on land use planning processes It's very hard for folks to know now How to have input on land use planning And often they don't find out what's happening until it's happening next door to them and it's too late So I'm really concerned to make sure that this entity Has some possibly more stringent than just the basic brown act rules Uh, you know, we've talked about concern about ad hawks not having minutes And because of that it's very hard to track what an ad hawk is doing or recommending So as as we as a city move forward with regular, you know changes in our Transparency policies, I would hope that we could bring them to this entity as well And in particular It's my understanding with the pda's and to d's, you know, we priority development areas We have five or six of them. I think six Recently roseland as a whole body kind of got annexed as a pda And I don't think they know it So it concerns me if we're going to streamline Things that are going into pda's That we have some kind of specific plan done for those areas that the public has taken part in Where are we in that process? I mean, I know we have a downtown specific plan and that we're redoing it Does roseland have a specific plan? It does. Yeah, it has a plan that was approved with the annexation specific plan was done with that with With community input to develop what that plan looks like The downtown specific plan that you're referring to that started yesterday or actually friday That'll be coming to you on that that'll be coming to you on january 8th as a kickoff for the council to provide input on that And what we're also going to do that night is do a kickoff of the do an overview of what the city-wide general plan Process is going to look like so we can Show where things are and where that input is to your point about where do you have input on land use decisions to make sure everyone understands So that larger general plan city-wide will incorporate the conversation that happened in roseland and downtown at the same time and With regard to eir's we've done Environmental impact review or reports on all of our pda's Is that correct not the pda's So the specific plans have environmental impact reports on not all the pda's have specific plans So roseland does because it was annexed correct, but the other pda's don't yet like correct like a Right i'm trying to think of one off the top of my head, but Mendocino avidant corridor right that a pda right so so those will be discussed as part of the General plan update Determining that'll be wrapped into the general plan. Okay, so we we can have the eir's At the time we're doing the general plan update in the next couple of years Right or if we want to go back and look at different specific plan approaches to get more narrow focused But the general plan is really the conversation we were going to have for the city-wide This entity could make rule do rule making or streamlining or fund construction Within a pda that hasn't had the general plan process completed yet. Is that yes or no? I just don't know so the well it could it could provide money So the intent is to provide money where the board thinks that it would be a good thing But it still has to comply with all local rules land use regulations So we'd have to if there's no environmental done on that then we'd have to go through the environmental process for that project So we're not skipping. No, absolutely not at least within the city. We're not skipping us All right, and I if I may I'd also clarify that The red does not have the land use authority that remains with the city and the counties so You may be looking at funding you may be looking at advantages through the red But any project still has to come back to the city For approval and for compliance with our own city regulations. Okay. I think I had not fully understood it feels like giving land use policy to an entity that becomes very difficult And sometimes land use planning is money But I appreciate that things will come back Is there an appeal process from The jpa to our land use planning processes? No, there's no appeal Process again, it's its own separate legal entity And it will be making potentially funding decisions. It may make recommendations or endorsements for particular projects It may provide an avenue For you know stronger collaboration between the city and the county on joint projects Which I will say we are excited about having Stronger collaboration and working together. I'm just concerned about how does a citizen group do appeal So maybe we could do a hypothetical Citizen groups don't do appeal through the jpa, but they do them when they come to the city Right. So maybe a hypothetical question is a project downtown Comes in it's got affordability. It's a net zero. It's got all the things that whatever the jpa. I think is important It gets awarded high it gets awarded some funding to move forward Then they come to the city's planning process They go through the planning process at that point if somebody has a problem It could get appealed from the planning commission of the council So you'd be the ultimate appeal body for any specific project within the city limits and excuse me I haven't been part of the subcommittee that's had the conversation. So I have these questions Why wouldn't we just do this ourselves? I mean, I'd like the idea of collaborating with the county Does this is the benefit for doing this? because That it improves our likelihood of getting funding right right. Is that the intent? Yeah, we couldn't just as a city go ask for sp2 funds We could we could yeah, and I think we could there's other money out there though I think what we we're trying to position ourselves looking at a regional approach So if there's money regionally that we can pool and say that We're going to take money from the county and the city and there's a project in the city limits That makes the most sense we can pull that together to get bigger for her I'm aware of the region of a regional approach that's going on for the nine bay area community So i'm concerned about how many layers of regional approach Is administration funding rather than funding building the house Well, and I understand the concern, but I think ultimately the the conversation that has been circulating is around the re-visiting of redevelopment 2.2.0 in tax increment We're going to need to work together to get those types of projects across the board So everybody's going to need to have a say in that conversation council member And I think it is a resource allocation question at that point Okay, and and again, I think collaboration Working together makes a whole lot of sense. I'm just trying to make sure What is it that we're gaining versus what we're Turning over to another entity There's four for two years. How did we handle a split but If a split vote happens similar to a split vote at council, it doesn't doesn't go anywhere And so the intent is that we're going to have to work together to Move things forward in the first two years. Okay. Thank you very much. I appreciate it and I want to thank you Um, I think that as the vice mayor mentioned, there are some all good projects That i'm looking forward to seeing come forward. I have a little concern about the county's decisions regarding industrial property But those are decisions of the county Mr. Schwadhoe Thank you for this presentation. Are there any other jpeas like this in the state of california Not that we're aware of no, so we're the furthest is new Right cutting edge approach or trying something new. Yeah, thanks Mr. Rogers Thank you, mr. Mayor. I just wanted to crack something I said earlier which was about the redevelopment 2.0 It's actually sp4 sp5 and sp6 So it's a package of bills that have been introduced So I just want to I saw everybody take notes. I want to make sure I flag that Thank you Okay, if there aren't any more questions, we'll go to public comment. I'm starting with dwayne de witt followed by terry shore Hello, my name is dwayne de witt. I'm from roseland and that's where I first had experience with the joint powers authority 34 years ago when the rosland redevelopment project area was formed as a jpa with the county One of the things that's most important is that you folks get along That's what's going to make it work And it's important to also keep in mind why redevelopment went away It didn't provide the amount of housing that it was promising and frequently Jurisdictions would just ignore their requirement to put in 20 affordable housing So I'm generally supportive of what you're doing and I'd like to make a recommendation that could be helpful to you To get some funding from other governmental sources as soon as possible And that is back to that thing the plagues roseland that 264 acre area that was once a redevelopment area brownfields The usepa brownfields grants were just opened up again For applications right now And it would be a wonderful thing if you folks would follow up on the work that the county is already doing in land That's in the city of santa rosa. That's at roberts avenue And the county got a small pilot brownfields project grant of 392 thousand dollars And they've already been looking at 15 properties along roberts avenue near the smart rail train track Close to your railroad square train depot It's a wonderful opportunity to help a disadvantaged underserved Overburden community and this could be one thing to move forward on I advocated for years at the metropolitan transportation commission for the sabbatical road corridor to be a priority development area You folks have enlarged it all the way out to belview avenue, perhaps I think you should focus right back up there on sabbatical road and help the county as soon as possible on the projects They're working on become a joint powers authority in real action in real time Start to help them on roberts avenue and then also look at that rosalind village shopping redevelopment That's been languishing. It's floundering basically in a sense because of jurisdictional agencies slowing up a process It could be moved forward if you're rid Your renewal enterprise district Has that in mind let's renew things and get them in as soon as possible If it becomes just another bureaucratic foray into talking And talking and talking some more Without solving any problems. We're going nowhere fast and it will just be costing you money You have to go after other people's money Bring it in put it to use and get that area renewed Rosalind is the spot to start and i'll be there cheering you along Thank you very much for your time terry shore followed by ancy lee Um a good evening mayor corsie city council members staff and members of the public i'm terry shore I'm the regional director for the north bay for green belt alliance We work to protect the green belt and to encourage the right development in the right places I did send a email comment letter to you Late this afternoon and i will hit the highlights Green belt alliance recognizes the potential benefits of the city of sanarosa in the county of sonoma Forming a renewal enterprise district in order to implement a shared vision and agenda for regional housing development A collaborative and regional approach is timely and also in line with other initiatives at the regional level such as kasa And the state level such as sp35 and other new legislation that's moving forward I really appreciate the opportunity on friday to meet with some city and county staff to go over it so i could better understand it I also very much appreciate the the discussion tonight and the clarification about the public input and involvement That's very very important moving forward Green belt alliance supports a number of the goals and objectives Related to the criteria such as of course staying within the urban growth boundaries staying out of the community separators incentivizing green building constructions zero net energy walkable bikeable And affordability levels We hope that the jpa will consider higher affordability levels through incentives particularly for the publicly owned land That go above the usual 10 to 15 percent and also to focus in on veterans and seniors We hope Also, we would urge the council and the jpa and the county To consider fire risk as you move forward and identifying and incentivizing projects to make sure that we are Not increasing the risk fire risk and putting a lot of new development in the high fire risk areas One thing we're hoping that might be considered on the way is a voluntary program For buyouts in certain areas where people can't or unable to rebuild In some of the higher fire risk areas and provide some alternative options for them and maybe help them move closer into the downtown And into the city centers where we would like to see most of the growth So, um green bell alliance looks forward to being engaged and participating in the project of the process as it moves forward. So, thank you Thank you. Anne sealy followed by ananda suite Good afternoon. Anne sealy speaking for concerned citizens for santa rosa I arrived as intended to ask After the initial members suspend their two years on the jpa Who will the additional members be and how will they be selected? But you have pretty well explained that it's Extremely helpful for other city members to become part of the jpa so that not all of the development goes right in santa rosa and there There are fewer places in the county that are perhaps appropriate for Density housing. So it's good to have other cities involved This concept of city county planning and cooperation sounds like an eminently helpful thing to do with the devils in the details. So I Hope along the lines of what councilmember combs said I hope that the jpa maintains a website where the public can see what is being done And where development is planned a capacity for contacting the people on the jpa would be should be made available A last comment the prominence of affordability in the jpa's Operational diagram was very hopeful to me. I think that should be the emphasis. Thank you Thank you ananda suite followed by peter churnoff Good evening. Mayor course the members of the council. My name is ananda suite I'm with the santa rosa metro chamber of commerce We want to thank the council and santa rosa city staff for their work and taking opportunities over the past year In being proactive and encouraging building and rebuilding of much needed housing in the city of santa rosa We're particularly excited about the opportunities that could come with the renewal enterprise district particularly around opportunities to think regionally opportunities for financing tools and leveraging of state and federal funds and opportunities to create much needed certainty in the building process Again, we thank santa rosa city staff for all of their work over the past year on housing policy And we applaud staff and council for your willingness to be bold And action oriented when it comes to our housing needs and we encourage you to move forward on that proactive path. Thank you Thank you peter churnoff followed by thomas ells Yes, peter king of masterpiece theater I really like the fact that these students are here and i'm really impressed because As opposed to a lot of meetings where the adults And often students most of them are goofing around on their cell phones when they're in a meeting and then they're not even doing that They're actually trying to pay attention, but it's a little complicated down there But I know what they're thinking because I got a feeling that among them are some uh jedi knights jedi knights Ready to stand up and Do what's right I know what they're thinking they're thinking why aren't we talking about all these things, but we're not talking about Putting the homeless people somewhere And the problem with rich wealthy people Is sometimes they don't care About others Now I can tell you that the people up there in the council are all pretty good people But they're also hampered and contained by a bunch of rules and regulations and lawyers and corruption They wish it wasn't there, but it's there In fact, you students might be wise to look up stop the crime dot net to see how city councils work Because most of those people try to do the right thing And so we I heard them mention about rent increases That's the rich people wanting to get richer And we got the homeless issues We got animal abuse on these factory farms And I guess by now you students know that charlie brown and the penis gang have something in common with cesar chavez jesus gandhi They're all vegans And why couldn't the city council do something like do a work program for the the homeless where they Set aside an area and put up some tents and teepees And do a 20-hour work deal so that they got a place to be and something to do Well, the reason they can't do that is because they're sort of ordered not to do that, but the students can change that equation You know before 1969 the students in this country, especially california were famous for getting things done by boycotting school and boycotting and doing strikes Hasn't happened since 1969 You students might be wise to google your noodle to student strikes and student boycotts Because if you did the such a thing not only would all the students in california follow you but from dc on down I'm talking trump all the way down They would pee their pants because they wouldn't know how to explain why these students finally woke up as jedi knights And changed the equation because they possessed the beverage of leverage Jiminy crickets all you represent is 85 a day to the system You got more power than you know And so 20 hours a week for these people. Yeah, there's plenty to do. There's gardens flower boxes assisting seniors with disabilities So many wonderful things they could tell themselves. I don't know how to follow him. Uh, I'd even give him a minute or so of my time Um to councilmember rogerson and councilmember combs wondering about notifications about project areas I can assure you people are aware it's been 20 years since it was proposed to have mid-rise high rise all the way along Both sides of the freeway and taking the freeway out so that they could increase density And congestion, but that was the proposal and I said Why do that you've got a road right here in mendicino avenue and you could put those right there You didn't have to take the freeway out At any rate that was 20 some odd years ago The areas to be developed Are all the existing areas that we have Take notice now Everybody should take notice now In the general up plan update needs to expressly address and invite the populace That it's not just a general plan up. That was something thought about No, this is this is going to be it. I mean or you're not going to get what you hope for um, then the fire risk mitigation as a part of the general plan that needs to Be included in that Also add ways of putting water resources in the wildland urban interface As a part of that please please do that but directly to the red itself Renewal enterprise districts as I mentioned to the board of supervisors today Was that prioritizing cooperative housing because let me put it this way is that just as you think Supervisor rabbit question the certainty of projects entitlements For the for-profit developments. They're they're not They're not readily going to come over here and go jeez Sonoma county just sounds so wonderful to develop over there because they want proof Before they put their money down they want to say somebody went through this process and got through the other end I am recommending Some guinea pigs for you Create cooperative housing Co-housing and mutual housing and prioritize those within the red you can do that That's the properties are going to come back for entitlement to you You can prioritize that that these are the ones you're going to improve you can streamline those And those would produce owner occupied affordable housing Based on what your criteria are So please do that. Please think about how this can expand the housing opportunities And the development you will have the people who will come through the process And then you'll get your for-profit developers who will come right behind. Thank you Thank you daisy pistiline Hi daisy pistiline Sonoma county conservation action We are glad to see that the city and the county are affirming a commitment to work together on developing New housing in the areas where there should be development And we hope that you keep it in the areas that should have development Um, there are some concerns given that there's not a map coming along with this jpa And we hope that that's not purposeful in order to get it passed without Um people having concerns about particular areas And do hope that there is strong community engagement and input on Where this applies um, we're glad to see that there are provisions for that included um We are certainly hoping to see higher levels of affordability Particularly on the publicly owned lands as others have urged earlier tonight And wanting to ensure that the jpa focuses on the urban cores and areas inside urban growth boundaries Particularly away from the edges of the urban growth boundaries where density is more appropriate inside of cities We do have concern about the potential of the airport to be included in the jpa and Understand it's not under the jurisdiction of the city But given that you are coming into this agreement and members of this council will be sitting on the board wanting to express that there's been a slow creep of Adding development and adding You know a smart station and adding and wanting to put housing there now And it's a concern that there's a desire to create another city essentially in the midst of two cities What it should be a green belt so wanting to put that concern out there very clearly from the beginning and hoping that will be excluded from Any map that is drawn And we do hope that given that this is a public Agreement and one between two public entities that we do achieve some of the Important goals of this community that have been affirmed again and again such as the climate action plan Really striving for development in these areas to be net zero energy High efficiency all electric if possible as this council is considering doing that within the city Um and really focusing on creating better transportation alternatives as you've seen with the shanate The outpouring of community concern about shanate when new high density development goes in which we do need to see in the city There's a lot of concern about transportation access and traffic being created. And so I urge you to really Um firmly and well design your transportation alternatives And the interconnection of transportation alternatives in these areas at the beginning so that the public concern can be dampened And so that we can move forward with better higher density development in these areas. Thank you Thank you. I'll bring it back to the council. Um Are there any uh additional questions for staff at this point Mr. Schwadhelm do you want to put a motion on the table? Sure, my pleasure. Um of a resolution of the council of the city of santa rosa approving the joint powers agreement for the creation of a Renewal enterprise district through a joint powers authority comprised initially of the city of santa rosa In the county of Sonoma way further in the text second Thank you. Um Any comments Mr. Tibbetts Thank you, mr. Mayor I just want to affirm my support for moving forward on the renewal enterprise district Because I recognize that you as our staff are really the ones driving it and will ultimately be the ones who bring it to fruition And I and again, it's just my support for this is wholehearted, you know We talk about housing is a regional issue Regional problems need regional solutions and when we look at the powers that this jpa can really bring You look at the successes of Sonoma mclean power Sonoma county transportation Authority and how there was resistance and trepidation to go in that direction when those first started But the minute they were off the ground they brought in innumerable innumerable benefits But mostly financial benefits to the what the mission of those jpas were and I think this is going to be the same thing here A couple of things that i'm really interested in seeing come out of this. Um, I think councilmember combs you brought up this question along this lines But what would the benefit be of working together right off the bat? You know this council is trying to do homeless dedicated housing and build that which is a very difficult type of project to create in this market But just being able to merge with the county and share project based voucher resources would be huge for our mission to try to accomplish homeless dedicated housing The ability to pull these partners together to drive, you know local private lending pool To share risk among local lenders and hopefully get them to breach into the construction lending space And and finally and probably foremost is establishing A credit rating and having bonding authority and being able to go out and obtain revenue bonds to build housing projects So I hope that we we can continue to propel ourselves down this path With enthusiasm because the the only failure would be not to try and I want to thank you and thank the folks in the county Who are uh in the audience today for bringing it this far? I know it's been a lot of work on your behalf Your behalf and all of your behalves as well. So thanks Any other comments? Mr. Shredham I just want to echo my support for this and I know how long having been on that ad hoc It seems like we've been talking about this forever and just seeing the collaboration between the city and the county That it's just not idle words, you know ever since the fire And we had this tragedy in our community that brought people together And I still see us working together, you know Even you know no disrespect, but attorneys from two different entities actually getting along and working together with a product Everyone's smiling. It's it's it's been wonderful outside the the meeting times I know there still are some gremlins about the seven o'clock meeting start But it really is you're modeling these behaviors that I think the community expects us to make a difference So I really applaud the efforts and this is just a step So I'm really looking forward to the formation of the jpa The four members are going to get there a lot more work ahead of us But this is an awesome step and thank you for both the county employees and city staff for moving this forward This is going to be great. Thank you Ms. Gomes Well, I also want to thank you for bringing this forward and I I think there's a lot of exciting opportunities here in this collaboration Obviously we some of us Have a nuanced response and want to be cautious about certain things, but I I really am Enthusiastic and excited that this is going to go forward that it looks as if this is an excellent way to bring resources together to bear on joint issues, especially Our housing issue is I mean our housing crisis is so serious that we really need to be working together to solve it and I appreciate you bringing this forward to us My only comment is that it is misnamed Uh, obviously we're wanting to go on housing and yet we're calling it red You know Maybe we can find a way to think about red as go But I I do want to appreciate that you've brought it forward. Thank you Mr. Sawyer Thank you, mayor I just want to say thank you and I let you know that Well, I was at a meeting at the league of california cities this morning and the efforts of the housing department and the planning department And the entire organization and just our city in general the dedication to housing finding creative ways to Try to chip away at this great challenge that we have and Your departments are being held up as examples of how to move forward and trying to solve some of these problems Because you're acting boldly and you're taking chances And you're looking at creative ways to find out to solve a problem that has been with us for so many decades But until now we've been able just to kind of Let it pass and wait for another day and you are tackling it As is this council in support of what you're doing And I appreciate The council's dedication and the dedication of your departments because we couldn't we wouldn't be where we are today In trying to solve some of these challenges if it wasn't for The the staff coming up with great solutions and creativity again. I just thank you very much for your dedication to this so about three years ago when when The urgency of the housing situation came to the fore for this council and for for staff We talked a lot about using all the tools that we had available to create housing in this community You know, I think we've we've done a good job of putting policies in place using those tools Incentivizing the kind of things that we want to see This is this goes beyond Using the tools. This is this is creating another tool and I think this is this will be really valuable As as time goes on You know, there was discussion earlier about About whether to call something a pilot project And this is truly a pilot project. It's unique and There was another word that was being used when we were talking about ab 222 and in Sacramento And I don't know whether it was meritorious or something like that. Do you recall the word I'm talking about anyway We are looking for Meritorious projects housing projects in this community Both within and without the city limits This will be a way to bring attention to the community Attention from developers attention from from finance people Attention from sacramento Just the creation of of this jpa has that effect and I think it'll shine a light that that will really help us as we go along Even more important than that are you know The the goals the stated goals of this community for for a long time for every community in in sonoma county have been about city-centered growth this puts a an even bigger focus on that and it it highlights the increasing urgency of our climate issues If we're going to Really do anything about addressing climate change in sonoma county We need to address the transportation sector by building downtown close to transit close to jobs Close to shopping and services. That's the best way to review reduce vehicle miles traveled if we don't do that Everything else that we do hardly even matters because transportation is so much of the of the Carbon that we're putting into the atmosphere right now And you know this this goes You know all the way from building close to transit to Building all electric it covers a lot of the spectrum of the kind of things that we need to do and I think that we really Need to talk that up as part of the of this jpa I think that we also have have maybe failed a little bit in explaining what the jpa does and doesn't do This this isn't a group that's going to approve development projects in santa resa our sonoma county The land use power resides with the city council with the board of supervisors And and the maps do exist the maps are our general plans and our specific plans And we're not going off the map here so Congratulations on on getting this this far to all of you county and city folks Talk about walking and chewing gum at the same time over the past 14 months. It's been pretty impressive to see And unless there are other comments your votes, please That passes unanimously. I think that we should also Note that it passed unanimously this morning at the board of supervisors. So thank you very much So moving on or moving backwards to our public comment for items not on today's agenda We'll start with duane duwit Hello, my name is duane duwit. I'm from rosin. I wanted to come in thank Miss combs in person For attending our veterans day celebration here at the santa rosa veterans memorial out front And also the newly elected council member Miss fleming was there and it was a nice small commemoration Of the 100th anniversary of the end of the first world war Let us hope we never have another world war with that in mind congressman mike thompson himself as a veteran of the vietnam war Has written a letter to the city of santa rosa in support Of the efforts that the vietnam veterans of america chapter 223 is making to have a veterans trail in southwest santa rosa They've built one in southeast santa rosa through anadel park And the hope is that we'll be able to do the bicycle path in greenway on the south Bank of the roseland creek area through the roseland creek Neighborhood as we call it the letter from mr. Thompson I'm hoping all of you have seen it already. It's about a month ago It was just just to city manager mcglenn And we wanted to make sure that all the council knew about it because it's supportive of not just the veterans trail But a veterans grove in that neighborhood there and a veterans healing garden If you're paying attention to local things happening in santa rosa There is the tiny home village being built for veterans over on russell avenue with funding by sonoma county And on sunday they began the first effort to perhaps put in a healing garden there with a group called daily acts Myself as a respiratory therapist. I have known about the healing properties of nature Almost all my life and I just hope that you will understand That's why there is such a strong effort in roseland to save the last bit of nature that we have And make sure that we don't get lots of concrete put in for parking or emergency vehicle access or any other type of Rationalization that might come forward from someone in the staff somewhere That neighborhood would we call it the neighborhood is already doing a bit of its job allowing People to walk through and get a respite from the city's stresses and pressures So i'm just once again reaffirming Our gladness that you're supportive of veterans And that you're there for us as we go forward on this roseland neighborhood project To do good things to help veterans and what we hope will be a wonderful healing garden and veterans grove along that veterans trail bikeway greenway through roseland peter churniff Well, I second uh Dwayne's remarks always. Thank you to vets. Thank you to law enforcement So I shared this earlier today. I want to share it one more time. It was really quite beautiful and powerful It was about a little after three in this morning And I woke up to amazing lightning and thunder and it was uh Very noticeable very loud even colorful And then there was a calm and several months ago A warrior showed up in my dream And it was someone that I'd known John trudell who was the voice for the american union movement for about 40 years Santee sue a navy vet from vietnam And in his uh one hand he held the us constitution And in the other hand He held a very serious set of very heavy chains Which was attached to a very large awesome looking reservation dog And with all this corruption and all this craziness going on But anyways in the dream This vision With the hand that he had on the constitution he pointed to the heavens And they opened up And the dogs of war poured through And I watched them And then they came and were lined up in a group behind The dog that he held on the chains And the Lakota culture the term cola has several personal meetings Depending on the situation and this dog was named ricola And as I was watching all this John looked at me smiled And then he let go of the chains he unchained the the big dog Ricola took off followed by the dogs at heaven And then I woke up it was about four in the morning It was a very powerful very beautiful dream And I was given to share as I did today for the second time Because without a doubt this is coming to a theater near you Have a beautiful evening Rosalia tapia romero. Oh, my name is Rosalia. Um This is my first time being here. I'm just a senior of high school I'm so really naive and I had no idea what was being talked about in the city council meeting I heard jpa and I heard gpa and I thought like oh, I'm worried about mine, too But what I'm here to speak of is Oh, thank you Is uh burbank housing the one by pebble creek. Um, which is nearby metal view elementary school and elsie high school It's ridiculous the parking there is really it's it's a it's problematic I've been living there for five years and I've I've seen it a lot um first it was good until More people were coming and there was more cars coming because the average of the average um Vehicles that family owns are around two, but they only provide one parking spot And soon the family gets bigger and cars increases And their first solution was to paint the Paint the streets red because he realized that there's no A space for fire trucks to be there or anything like that. So that became a problem for More packed up cars and then soon it came to Um slapping a sticker on the cars So they won't so they know that Their residents vehicles and not anybody else's vehicles But soon as soon as the new houses that were built in front of those apartments Became even more of a problem because more houses were more cars were coming in more people were coming in And soon it became soon cars were parking on this one property that was private And it became so bad that they had to fence it up and they had to leave nodes and towing cars And now like now the streets are so crowded that they actually have to back away once they see a new car coming in When no when they see a car coming in they can't drive like sideways and the car actually has to back away And it's also becoming so bad that they actually have to park outside of the neighborhood to the houses behind the park And now we're disturbing the other neighbors And it's just keep on growing other than the neighbors are getting annoyed You know because we're like in their property ish because they were parking on their roads And then there's a school there and it's just going to keep getting worse because I see new houses Being built and then it's just not like it's going to be there. It's going to be in other places as well Sam Thank you resalia. Thanks for bringing that to our attention Thomas else Thank you for the opportunity and for being here all these things They all add up to being very important. I want to mention the Today since yesterday at six o'clock until today at six o'clock just now Was the 24 hours climate reality project? 24 hours of broadcasting whether youtube in various ways Internet media on climate change climate reality with Al Gore and many other people around the world columbia, brazil, australia China all the areas of japan all the areas of climate change And the the aspects of flooding all these things that that we have to take very seriously fire fire in australia Cyclones in australia that the devastate their their coastlines And and throughout asia and here as well We call them hurricanes Humongous huge gigantic that cover the whole basin of the you know, that's the south pacific That's almost impossible. It's impossible to conceive Of how large they are. I would just point out something You know that that area over there by lc allen is probably too far away to try to Achieve the density that we would like to see in development By reducing the parking in other words those people are going to have to drive there's nothing over there There are no services over there. There's nothing So I would recommend a parking district that they form a parking district that you help them And that and that they acquire property because they're it's just going to get worse. How could a fire engine get down that street? If a car can't get by another car We already know these problems. They're Pretty serious and that one touches my heart. Believe me These are these are all climate reality problems. They're climate reality problems They're climate reality problems here in our heart in our head and how we solve them having dense development City center dense development is is the answer we've been trying for for over 25 years here With very very wonderful considerate people As they mentioned about yourselves, but but I would I would point to dr. George elman and and um and uh The the veterinarian dr. Bill cordham and and so on um and marty griffin as well, you know Dr. Marty griffin. Thank you Climate reality Please take a look at that. You can watch that. There was also two hours spent before that um on on a climate uh video from bernie sanders and it's it's on there and it was even more Valuable in a way because it was compact And he had people coming on. He had uh bill mckibbin and and just fantastic. So thank you. Thank you mr.ills With that we're adjourned