 Good evening. Good morning. Good afternoon wherever you are joining us from. Hi My name is Abhijit Bhaduri and I work as an executive coach Dreamers and Unicorns which talks about how leadership talent and culture are the new growth drivers for organizations In Dreamers and Unicorns, we actually talk to really interesting people some of whom are really doing fabulous work and they are doing interesting things with their organizations and What we are really trying to figure out is in this particular season the focus is a lot on mental health Which as you know is something that we are all grappling with Pandemic Therefore today's guest is also going to talk to you about what she and her organization are doing about Well-being and that's really what we are going to talk about today. So once again Hey Mohana Thank you for joining us today and I'm so delighted as you can see between season one two and now three The star cast is getting better and better. So delighted to have you join us Thank you so much Abhijit It's my pleasure to be here this evening with you on a very cold evening according to me in Bangalore And thanks to everyone who's been able to join us here Great. So Mohana About your background what you've done what brought you to the place where you are So talk to me about your professional journey and then we'll get on to the other questions as well And meanwhile those of us who are joining us in the audience But before all of that we need to know who is Mohana and what does she do Thanks Abhijit. I think this is the great opportunity first of all to be interacting with you I actually just got back to India last year after a fabulous Experience of over five years of working with SAP SAP gave me a wonderful platform to actually go global I led a couple of interesting global portfolios including removal of ratings for the organization through early adoption to define Technology expert career paths for the global organization to work with the CHRO globally of the organization What more can someone ask from you know a career journey perspective which was hopping from one great topic to the other and making True difference to everybody globally as well in the organization But more than all of that I think working with colleagues across different cultures was the most Important part of that experience. I think that journey was very significant in my life because It really helped me understand all that education that I put my time and effort into which was to get a master's in Psychology to then go to TISS in Mumbai to study HR and labor relations All sort of paid off through those five six years of my life dedicated to the profession itself I'm from Bangalore and life is such that sometimes you you circle back to where you actually call home So I had to come back on personal reasons last year And since then I've actually been associated with standard charted as a head of HR Specifically for the Bangalore hub, which is well over about 8,000 employees here I'm of course supporting the bank and leading a specific people charter And people agenda specifically from the services side that supports run the bank Earlier when I started my career again It was in India in Bangalore and I was there for a good period of seven years with fidelity investments And one of the key aspects that's really landed me in terms of where I am today The conscious decision I've taken to actually do what I am doing today in HR and continuing that journey is Actually the founding years or foundation years of the first few choices you make of trying everything within the function right within Doing recruitment doing learning doing whatever you call it you get that broad base of intensive and extensive and then you make your choice in terms of what you really Want to really invest your you know time and professionally to contribute back to the space and ecosystem that you're working in Yeah, so essentially that's in a nutshell And I'm really glad to be here and sharing what we're really trying to do to help You know the people in our organization Be a fitter organization at large as well in that ecosystem fabulous I think I first met you when you were working for SAP labs. Is that correct? I would reckon that we have an association through that particular organization now. I'm just definitely So good to you know this proves you You went all over the world and then came back to Bangalore, which is where you started which is evidence that the earth is indeed round so But I want to you know start by sort of looking at the pandemic and How did it impact you talk to me about the time when You were here. So what happened when the lockdown was declared? What did people experience? What did you do talk to me about that? Yeah, no absolutely and thank you for asking me that question Which still remains to be very important and critical in the time that we are living in our widget The last two years have been, you know, very crucial for all of us in our life If we chose to lean in I think we learned a lot from it Because it's truly been an equalizer for each one of us One of the you know the key things of being a part of an organization and what we really You know when I look back what we ended up doing was Essentially looking at first and foremost paying hundred percent attention To our people's safety to get them to a place where they could actually operate very safely To enable work from home to enable technology that could really support them and get them to you know Really feel safe and productive from where they really are Another important aspect was how could we really revire everything in terms of policies everything in terms of benefits your financial assistance programs How could all of that be tailored to actually, you know managing a COVID your insurance is never new of anything of this kind before So how do organizations bring in those solutions just in time so that people are actually feeling safe and benefit Benefited during this period as well and that was really our main focus Focus point and as we were doing all of this a budget. I think when I look back You know why we got our people safe the debates that we had the fights that we internally had between leaders to take the right decisions for the Organization with the minimum resources, which I think happens during any pandemic was actually so fruitful in You know taking the right decisions to save people's life And also to keep people very safe in certain spaces such as their homes, etc Another important thing that I remember is how Irrespective of what you're doing how much you're trying to catch up There's always a lag effect right and you're trying to do the best for the organization But every day things are changing every day your decisions need to be agile and thereby that lag effect was something that each one of us felt but truly and honestly what it presented to us in Terms of an organizational experience was the opportunity to be servant leaders in the true sense We were actually providing that service back and serving the human being in the organization for the first time in the real Real spirit of everything today, of course we are We're looking at strengthening by vaccination approach Everyone's getting stronger because we are vaccinated and imagine we're asking people in the pandemic to actually come back into offices So what does it really mean and to be very honest if you ask me Moana is this like a hundred percent solution? Is this the right methodology? I would hesitate to give that commitment to you You know, I would say that one thing that pandemic has taught us is how we take decisions in the now in the present and Could we do that decision at that point in time, which is the right decision to keep people safe That's all we can do at this stage But yes, we are coming back But all in all all of that experience that we had of keeping people safe getting them all the benefits all of that experience to be a two full years Was actually centered around the human being and that is the spirit and the sense of that experience that happened in these years So what what was one of the challenges that employees face, you know during the Pandemic what changed in their life? What was the employee experience like? Yeah, I mean this this is This is an interesting yet a very complex question and the reason why I say that is because we were staring at a Fairly well-sized organization. It was a problem of scale Which means that it brought multiple generations into the picture Multiple range of issues that would surface and life context as well that could surface. We were dealing Some examples of that. Yeah. Yeah, sure. So The kind of population that we were looking at right is single people single parents People with parents Parents with children you have people who were in small families which were nuclear and you had joint families all living for a long number of months together and Therefore as an organization We really had to you know be ready to cater to all kinds of concerns that might actually surface and when you look at From an employee perspective. They had policies. They have benefits, etc. They could refer to and fall back upon But by the time it was wave 2 and we know how severe wave 2 was and how sudden wave 2 was I think the fear of the virus was something that became, you know A common denominator for everybody our budget everyone was sitting by then for months working From home. They were remote working Hardly any movement Nothing new in terms of what was happening across board in each one of our lives a respective of the organizations that we were working in What was also unique was unfortunately people lost their families overnight We had quite a few cases They were also Women and children who got far more vulnerable to domestic violence as we are aware of it So in in this kind of an environment One of the interesting things that was surfacing which talked about the dna also and the spirit behind it was What supported people through that terrible time? How your people leaders were talking to you daily How connected they were trying to be with you how how much of empathy they were showing To that person in a very human centered way and even having that conversation giving that Flexibility to you to deal with your own issues in life The other part that I observed was how your teammates without guilting you and blaming you were taking on your workload For a large number of weeks and saying we'll take care of everything Those are aspects that I think are the intangibles in organization That we must not forget because we can make hundred policies But finally it's that daily experience that people actually had with one another that actually helped us get through this pandemic To really where we are and I believe that that really helped in something very very important Which almost all organizations are saying today that they didn't miss their productivity They largely did well as organizations, right? We are scraping through some profits and losses But at the end of the day people did their jobs very well and that human spirit is what I think Stands out very clearly through the pandemic in terms of Such terrible experience with but people know what really they need to be standing up for and show courage And that that was something that I I always will remember and it continues to be the case Abhijit because we are going to face a post vaccination World and it's going to check our adaptability So it's not over the experience of the pandemic is still underway and we'll have to see how that really pans out as well You know as a HR person, what are some of the skills that you needed to build during this pandemic which You know, you you didn't ever think of using or you didn't have you know, talk to me about that I think this is such a such an important question because I cannot fall back only on knowledge of HR Changing policies it takes some other type of skills, right? That is you need tremendous amount of conviction You know value-driven conviction. What is your organization stand for and truly this is the test when you apply that skill as well and when Other teams because nothing can be done without cross-functional association and dependency So we were not alone an HR team is not working on this alone. You had property You had tech you had variety of leaders every day. There was crisis management meetings what you need is Very clear Clearly to bring the teams together. Are you able to bring cohesion and collaboration in the midst of a pandemic? And that's truly I think the skill of the hour Where I think this function this profession can actually help drive that thought process together And apart from that, I think you need a lot of patience You truly truly need sympathy and empathy which should be very well balanced Because your decisions can be very objective which need to be the case for months together I have to put a lid on my heart and say that we're losing people as is happening in the industry But how do I stay objective yet? I don't lose myself in the process So, you know as a human being itself So there there is that art of balancing that needs to happen and this profession and these professionals in our Round us actually Bring for that quality for the organization as well So, uh, you know when you look at The workplace which is there, what is uh, we have a question here from, um, akash Ranjan Who says that what would be the new policy for at least to help them feel safe? Though it'll be a cost to the company But will it be supported by management? Which will be a focus for companies in future as they lost business during this And then you help your balance that out, you know Helping employees feel safe and I don't know when you say safe. Would it be? Um, how could that feeling be generated? You know, I think uh, see safety is so pre-pandemic There's a whole lot of research which talks about what is it that troubled people? And one of the most common things was financial, uh, you know needs or financial uncertainty across the world and even in India, right? People were afraid they were going to lose their jobs, etc And then you're you're straight into the pandemic and you don't know whether you're going to live You don't know whether you're going to have a job and what happens to your financial needs in the context of You know pandemic. I think your solutions for making someone feel safe Has to be holistic has to be multifold. It cannot be dependent on a single policy Because feeling safe again means differently for different people. It could be psychological safety It could be safety of a job. It could be financial safety. It could just be safety from an emotional perspective So you you cannot bring it down through a single policy. So have a variety of different things Uh, which will take it closer to the employee and make it a little more personal to their life context as well So try to see how an ecosystem can actually bring in in the context of the pandemic and there on financial assistance programs Try to see how best even if you have Headcounts that are going away. Where can you actually fulfill them and use their skills somewhere else in the organization? Give adequate time to let them go. How can you give them training and awareness so that they feel safer? How can you build the intangibles? I always I wanted to share this so much in this forum that Programmatic solutions are not enough. You have to look at an ecosystem where communities are mushrooming People are able to connect with each other in a way that you don't need organizations to do it And they can self-sustain. So you have to help people Understand their own networks build their own networks to feel that sense of safety because you're not alone What this is taught us is that all of us are in it together. You're not alone So it's a whole host of things that need to come together in order for us to help somebody feel safe in the ambit of an organization I also think that You know one piece which I've talked about in my book. You mentioned the rise of independence But I also think that along with that. Yes, it's true that you know things like You know the way that the company stood by them. It's a feeling. It's intangible. It's very hard to quantify and say I used to be five out of 10 now. I'm seven out of 10. It's hard to sort of measure like that But I think one of the pieces that I would really certainly talk about is um The importance of understanding emotions. I think has gone up a lot and I would say that Emotions like building trust I was mentioning this in one of the uh places where I was talking to the employees I was saying that I think even though the employees who You had before the pandemic struck and you didn't see them for a while in between Even as these people come back They are different because they've been shaped by a number of these experiences So in some sense when you think about uh organizations, we always say Digital transformation, which would have taken maybe five years seven years ten years Happened in these 18 months. I also think that During these 18 months the mental makeup of people Life experiences of stuff that has happened around they are different And I think they've also gone through the transformation, which normally would have taken a decade. I think it's happened in these uh 18 to 24 months Is that a thing that you also felt I think uh, you know, I when I lived in europe Working in distributed teams was the norm. So there was so many I keep telling my excmenter that I never met people we had to get the work done Because people were in the us people were in singapore and you know, you just work a mechanism out right? So there was an implicit trust that you had to work in that model What happened in india because we are normally seeing each other all the time right the culture is mostly Uh fairly high on power distance to a large extent here a lot more in asia And in india what really happens is that uh, you're used to coming to office We're also more community driven. So trust is always about do you know someone? And then you're you work for longer and therefore you're more trusted So all of these things are of course things are dramatically changing with the new generations coming in And there's no way to escape it. It's it's a it's a good thing in a way, right? We look at it more positively and that's better for companies But it certainly uh pushed us to find trust through distance In the co in the in the covid pandemic. So it presented an opportunity to work without meeting each other And it was a true awakening for some organizations Which had never even allowed people to have skype conversations outside of their building So you overnight had to orchestrate how you're going to take your calls from home Uh, and in certain sectors it is hard You're not allowed to actually work outside because of privacy and data and so many issues So while while the Indian government was trying to actually relax a lot of norms Here were organizations which were actually pushing through and saying yes, we better do it now or we are in big trouble So the situation orchestrated itself in such a way that you had to redefine trust for yourself And people leaders have to change their mindsets and I I don't believe it's it's completely there yet It will get there and today because of 18 months of actually having done that people know they can actually work in the hybrid better They know they can work in a digital environment a lot more effectively as well So instead of being only office instead of only remote it's going to be that hybrid model Is that how you sort of look at it? I think that would be optimal abhijit primarily because The notion of why we need to come to work has changed right? We don't need to plug in to see our males That's not the purpose of going any more into offices And the truth is for a long time in many organizations. They have been giving you work from home for at least one day or two days, etc So why do I need to spend two hours in Bangalore travel one way? Sit in the office to check my males The reason why I go is to collaborate is to innovate Is to actually meet another human being for different purposes right for kambraji and teamwork and to build that trust But the regular work and the circumstance all of us are in in a very You know a dense city a populated city with the kind of infrastructure It is reasonable to have this this methodology of making it hybrid So it creates flexibility and another thing which is also emerging which we're also trying is just working patterns I may be a mom who has a child that I have to drop off Nine o'clock one day some other day I can log in at eight o'clock But am I trusted enough to do my work for that day? Or do I have to sit nine to six only? So the old school ways of actually having very stationary kind of work and work methodologies is totally evolving and it will evolve Faster and very much get adopted across companies is my feeling. Yeah So Krishna Krishna Manohar used to Ask this question about workplace versus workspace and and I think that The answer to that is what you just mentioned that I think and a lot of the norms around Why do you need to go to office? I think that's changing and Is why you go to a particular workplace And you can do the work In in your home or any other workspace that you and whether it's co-working You know some people are working You know sort of hub and spoke model that you have one setup where people gather together Some teams need to work like that And space is depending on the kind of work meter or work rather than everybody University having to come to one particular workplace There is also a very interesting That how do you build a culture of trust even when you are working remotely? What is the method that enables us to do something like that? Actually Honestly, there's no straightforward answer to it. One part is the situation forced us to do it, right? So unfortunately the situation forced us businesses actually have to evolve in that direction of trying different things and And working with trust through that change We didn't have that opportunity across the world because of the pandemic But I think if you want to completely sustain that trust I think what happens is you have to find ways where teams people people leaders You know those those one too many relationship nodes and organizations is your top management your people leaders Or anybody who's a champion for a certain topic like an erg etc They need to actually come together to propel trust in the organization, right through the ways of new ways of sort of Working together itself They are channels who can actually make Uh Working a different way happen positively as well Now your meetings if i'm a people leader and i'm saying you have to come and sit in front of me only then the meeting is successful Worst is i'm saying you you figure it out even if you're switched off your camera Uh, and I have this experience on a daily basis if my network is not okay My leader trusts me and says yeah, it's okay. I know mohana is engaged and she'll talk when it's needed If i miss the meeting it's okay So, how do you everything is small? These are the small practices and organizations You don't need big programmatic solutions I keep emphasizing that daily practices build the DNA of the culture and take that opportunity to build trust One step at a time one opportunity at a time and understand the change in your own organization and embrace it The more people leaders or any nodes in the organization like I mentioned is resisting the change as it can happen Through transformation of hybrid or non hybrid. You know that that effect is going to the employee as well So it's about how we are open to change and how we can actually embrace that then trust sort of Comes through because you're asking others to embrace that change as well through the pandemic I hope I make sense. Yeah, you did and uh, you know It hopefully also answered the question that uh, krishna had raised that how have you worked on skill set mindset and tool set I think sort of answers that question as well Actually, uh Sort of double click on one of the things that you mentioned You know, what is one practice that you did in retrospect? In your organization that you think was absolutely unique it happened and it was effective and What would you pick if you had to really choose? Yeah, I think um, just talking about the pandemic itself uh, abhijit like like I said earlier, right It presents you with an opportunity to do a lot of meaningful things When don't they say don't miss a crisis right as an opportunity So you can actually do a lot of impactful things for people So having said that uh, and and really looking at why we're here today in terms of well-being for our employees itself Um, I do want to call out that in the last three years Uh of three or four years. I've been thinking about this concept of grief, right? And I have realized that We as human beings around the world We're not equipped to be in another person's grief when they are in grief Normally I get told that and I'll connect it up with what I'm talking about in terms of practice But just to sort of set the context Uh, when I'm in grief and I'm sharing with a friend or a family member They're saying get over it or they're saying you're strong. It's okay. It's not a big deal You'll move on So how how come we are not thought to be in another person's grief So using that for me it was about translating and making a solution in the pandemic where there was so much grief especially in wave two and what we did is we brought about um, and uh, so called, um, you know A channel of support called grief sharing group sessions where it was the foundation was Um, you know a community setup where people just came in every week and they shared their grief And it was very interesting and it was different and very powerful if I may say that because Uh, many didn't talk but at the end of the session, you'll always observe people saying Oh, okay. I didn't know what to expect But I'm glad I came because I got to listen to everyone else and I realized I'm not alone And I realized their life is worse off than mine unfortunately And it started sort of getting people to come Repeat and come to these sessions and more and more people started coming for these sessions Where we realize in organizations you don't need to be told people just want to listen just want to share Now the other thing we did is we took that and we said What about our leaders for shouldering all the decisions for keeping a very strong face what happens to them? So I actually got the grief sharing sessions designed for our leaders and our management teams Where we did two things we made them talk about their grief because they were not only having their own personal pain But they day and night they're listening to their people who are grieving So you have an outlet you have a peer group that's sharing, you know what they went through But we also did An interesting thing with them specifically because we said they need hope They need hope that we go beyond the pandemic So we did visualization exercises with them to say that hey you are taking decisions today for the moment Which is hard, but tomorrow is going to be a better day So unless you give our leaders hope towards decision making For the future, which is a better one It could impact them more negatively right because we're all facing the crisis. We're all in the pandemic now So that was something that we did which which I think we got very very good positive reactions for And people were very they were happy that organizations are doing things like that for them today So that was one experience for me was very heartening as well And it was based on how we all deal with each other in terms of grief abhijit that I wanted to share I that's that's really fairly unique. I don't know too many organizations which actually address grief and What has been your definition of grief when you say Grief there is one which is about loss, you know, somebody passes away among your loved ones What are the forms of grief? if needed people talk about Um, that's such a beautiful question because when we were talking about it itself, uh, I was wondering what is grief? It's such a you come out thinking Wow, I mean, it's you assume it's going to be death because it was done during the pandemic But it was just so interesting because people started saying, you know, my people leader didn't give me flexibility And that made me feel so much grief So actually the feeling of grief is an outcome But something else in your life is happening someone's triggering grief, right? So grief is such a personal experience you can never standardize it And it's very difficult to say that it was only linked to death That was my learning as well because I had walked and saying, oh, okay. Yes. It's going to be because they lost something But actually during a pandemic Grief surfaces very differently. It could be because of death. It could be because It's because of your inability to help someone else who is grieving That's another beautiful takeaway that I learned from these sessions as well And the fact that any small thing can trigger you and land you in a sense of deep grief as well But ultimately it's it's it's it's like sorrow, right? It's it's you're not feeling. Okay You're feeling a deep sense of loss. You're feeling a deep sense of Dejection and that's all amounting to what we broadly call as grief I think it's very well said, you know, Mona I did a LinkedIn post which is there on my newsletter, which is about, you know grief, which is the unspoken emotion because many of us we Don't sort of really talk about grief in the public and My interest in this particular area got triggered by some work. I had the good fortune of you know talking to Two of the experts Professor George Colerizer of IMD Lausanne and Professor Charles Dhanraj, you know of Denver when You know, we looked at that and I spoke to a number of HR leaders about How they were looking at it the definition of grief is Far more broader. So, you know, as you rightly said that you know something that you Sort of move from one particular situation to another there's a transition And if during that transition Even though you are transiting to a better place sometimes, you know, you still grieve your old friends. You grieve or your old connections So sometimes even when people move to let's say when they change jobs They continue to grieve And it often shows up in things like when I was in so-and-so company We used to do this and you know, they say it was so nice, you know, because everybody did ABC It's one form of grief that they are expressing It could be It could be also because of Commitments that could not be kept because of the pandemic and grief can therefore take many forms. So Those of you who are listening in you can sort of look at This particular piece if you google it up with my name, you'll come across On that and what some of the organizations are doing We actually have some other questions here Vivek Thakur wants to know how do you win the trust of New joinings in this particular pandemic, especially if there is some kind of a salary deduction and some organizations have had to do that because Of the pandemic that you know, their their their business models have got You know, they've got shaken So there's been You know job security for in some cases in some cases they've survived the job cuts, but they've had to take salary cuts So how do you win back trust in this particular kind of a situation, especially people who are new joinings I think if I'm if I'm correct in the reference Airbnb The CEO of Airbnb right last year. No earlier this year wrote one of the most amazing email to their employees And I think each one of us has to spend some time and understand what what it meant to receive a letter like that from your CEO um, and finally I think what what happened with employees is that they were gracefully told They were humanly told that the situation is such that they were not doing well as an organization And they had to let go of people But that they will do it respectfully that they will do it With the the needed amount of care And I think what I'm trying to say is that Leaders take decisions on behalf of a system where you're in it for a to drive a business altogether Right, so everybody is human at the end of the day doing their roles in their jobs But what differentiates one organization from the other is the way we choose to communicate the same thing To the people who have joined us who've trusted us and actually joined us and that I think makes a big difference And even for the people and I know some examples without quoting names Where salaries were cut or some other benefits were cut marine stated when things got a little better this year And I think it's really about how we sort of hand hold people who join us and help them understand that it's not targeted Or not personalized that everyone's journeying through it and we're all taking some sort of cuts Right, it's not just for them the CEO also had taken a cut or somebody else had taken a cut So it was by design and it was inevitable So we have to focus on and people know they're very empowered these days They can leave you and go to another organization So it is very important to stay connected to people to be authentic and to state the facts No more are we in an era where we have to say something that is not really the fact People have access to information people know and they want authenticity in organizations And I think it's very important to sort of strive towards that in companies And stated as it is and do something about it when things get better And that's the proof of the pudding when your business gets better. What are you doing to change that policy And reinstate salary or benefits, etc. And that should be our focus then So in some sense keeping the human connection alive during good times and bad I think that to me is the big takeaway that I sort of look at it One last bit before I come to ask you a more personal question Of course I wanted to ask what is your view? How does the role of the leader And the role of HR change during a crisis does it change from the normal times? If you contrast it when you look back, what do you see is the thing that the business leader needs to do differently and the HR leader needs to do differently What is that? So I'm going to say a little bit of a controversial thing here. I hope it doesn't get me in trouble I think you start moving to the side of the employee a lot more You take the side of the employee and you take decisions for the employees You're normally taking the role of a leader to balance it between the role of an employee how best we can get them to do their best in the organization and get the best for the organization So while you still stand for the organization, you're leaning more towards doing things far faster for the employee and their well-being during a crisis And during a crisis, none of us said we are HR, we are this function, we are that function Yes, it tends to happen, but when you just look back, when I look back with my own experience there were so many things I was looking at, I was questioning property, I was questioning tech I was asking these questions, they were asking us questions And not a single day, can you go back and say it was just this team that did it So you're merging roles, you are just a leader who's taking decisions that's going beyond just your boundaries and you're collaborating and you're sharing information It's very very essential to ask back the organization important questions during a crisis as well which normally sometimes you're only giving answers to people to ask you questions But you're in this kind of a role, you just sort of change hats a little bit and you're conscious about the hats that you're changing at the end of the day The pandemic sort of made us do that to be very frank You know when you look at the description of the organization that you gave It reminded me of the way in college when they run college festivals Everybody comes together, you don't sort of say oh you're from this particular stream, you're from that stream, you don't do that You are actually just simply going across to get this job done and people don't worry about this one is senior, junior, this and that So it really is in some sense the ideal organization is able to bring that spirit together in the employees and get that done As I said that I'm going to you know we are coming to the end of this conversation but I want to first talk to you about your personal wellness hacks you know what is it that what do you recommend you know what do you do personally talk to me about that So I think Abhijit I don't recommend anything because I've come to realize it's a very personal thing okay what works for me may not work for anyone else but I'm happy to share what I've discovered at the end of the day One important thing is I have realized that human beings are very resilient and we're very powerful beings and the entire premise of my self-care is founded on a belief that I have the Shakti within me and I have the answers also within me I just have to find the tools to help me get to solving my problems which creates a sense of well-being for myself So there are two or three things that I do right One I almost regularly have come into the habit of revisiting my values I have a value checklist and I think because of so many options so many things and so many opportunities we all get you tend to sometimes you're finding yourself in a confusing situation of what is right what is wrong what am I doing is how is that impacting me and sometimes you end up taking the wrong decisions which actually were never meant for you and then I realized that actually going back to my value system being clear about it gives me conviction to live my life and gives me a lot of strength especially through my difficult times it's come and all of us have gone through very tough times I myself have experienced a lot of ups and downs but being clear about my values and standing up for it time and again you revisit them you know you change that list that's been super helpful The second thing is the understated thing of family and friends I think keeping them close being there for them doing things for them as well as them allowing them to share love and affection also creates a lot of sense of well-being and relying on tools right meditation last four years hatha yoga I've been doing forever now that's I think our sages knew it knew all these things long long back we are just discovering it now I guess thankfully but one last tip is you can use something called the rain model r a i n which master shee yang he speaks in his beautiful Ted talk he's a he's a kung fu master and I stumbled upon his Ted talk which was an amazing Ted talk and a very popular Ted talk actually millions of people have viewed it and he says when you're faced with an obstacle try to observe which is are for recognize there's a problem a for accept it because that's the biggest tumbling block we will have problems we need to accept it I for investigation that is what did I do what what were the circumstances that I got myself into this problem and the last one is n which is the hardest one and cultivating that spiritual attitude towards life as we grow is non identification which I think I don't want to tell you what the definition is each one will understand it in their own way but how do we sort of keep everything at a little bit of a distance you're even when you're successful how do you stay stable I think that's the beauty of life if we can achieve that journey thank you thank you so much you know Moana for sharing your personal mantra and I am so glad to have this conversation thank you so much for joining and I hope that our listeners and viewers you know have also found things of value and if you have any question you can still leave it on the under the chat box and we'll get to answer all your questions thank you once again for joining me today Moana wish you all the very best and see you