 Good evening. It's my honor and privilege to welcome you to an exchange for media conversation in an association with pitch and impact. Today, we're going to talk to who's done it all, who's worked with brands, clients, agencies, and has now reinvented herself as an author and somebody who teaches at business schools. Maybe she's going to be the next Prashant Kishore, the female version of Prashant Kishore. Let me welcome Ms. Jaishri Sundar, who doesn't really need an introduction to an advertising marketing media gathering. But today, we're not talking to Ms. Jaishri Sundar as just somebody who knows advertising marketing media brand building, but somebody who's written a seminal book on how to do marketing during election, how to do political campaign. So let me welcome Ms. Jaishri Sundar, and I will also request her to show her book which she's written. Don't forget 2004 adventurous election secrets from a surprise win. So welcome Ms. Sundar and good evening to all our viewers. Those who are tuned in either on exchangeformedia.com or on our social media platforms. Jaishri, first of all, congratulations. I'd love you to show your book. Firstly, thank you, Anurag. We've known each other for years. It's an absolute pleasure and honor for me to be here today. And since you're asking, I will show the book. This is the book. Don't forget 2004 advertising secrets of an impossible election victory. It's a young book. It's just out not to take people tell me it takes three to four hours to finish it. So yeah, here we are. Congratulations. Let me we'll dive into the book and what made you write it and what's in it and so on and so forth. But before that, let me start by asking you. The last 23-24 months have been life changing for a lot of people in good ways, in bad ways. There's been a loss of lives and livelihoods. I want to start by asking you, how have you been personally and professionally doing over the last 23-24 months? Well, personally, it was really hard I think for the whole world and I'm no exception. It was a very, very hard time that we all lived through. Professionally, I must say that it was a very prolific time for me because I worked very hard. I think that was the only way I coped with this. So I did a lot of teaching at this time. Of course, it was all to a screen. So it was a whole new experience, but it was just going back to back throughout the year. And a lot of webinars, nonstop. But more than that, I did two books, two diametrically opposite books. One book, which is on cooking, and it's called The Tambram's Recipes. And let me just show it. It's again a very new book. So The Tambram is what I jokingly refer to my husband as. This has got a whole lot of lovely vegetarian South Indian cuisine meant for millennials, young people, very easy to do. This book just came out in October. So he cooked and I wrote and photographed and it's a completely home produced book, after which I actually a little before this I got round to writing, don't forget 2004. And it took took me just three months to write it, then we went into the process of finding a publisher and editing and, you know, it's like fantastic timing that it came out in January when India's in the middle of five assembly elections right now so it's a very hot topic and yeah the book is out. So two books and a lot of teaching so that's how you know it was for me professionally. Thank you so much you made use the word prolific and I get it, because my way of coping with lockdown was exactly the same I put more energy into my work. And clearly, that kept my mind busy, occupied and of course, there was also responsibility of 300 people that work with me. So clearly, we transformed a business world in exchange for media state at the forefront of our industry. But now coming back to, why did you write this book now of course you had the time. Why this title. Why did I write this book now that's a good question and you know it's a story that had to be told. Secondly, it's about a general election, it's not a soap or a shampoo that you buy every week or you know something like that. We've just had three general elections in the middle. I thought I'd be doing a disservice to my profession if I had kept probably one of the biggest case studies that Indian advertising marketing branding political world has seen. I'm just tacit with me and my team, because we lived through something so unbelievable, and which was a David Goliath story and there was. I also wanted to take people behind the scenes into an advertising agency because people don't know too much about this world except they think it's very glamorous and they're a lot of models and you know everyone's very edgy and very creative and it is all that okay I'm sure it is an exciting world but that's probably 5% of it there's a lot of rolling up of your sleeves and working and I wanted to create so this is my diary this is the diary of my personal diary or what unfolded between January and January of 2004 and it goes day by day, day part by day part as to how this whole thing got crafted and created. So I wanted to bring this two fold exciting thing to readers, which is what happens in an ad agency and two is this fantastic case study. And your second question was why this title. Don't forget 2004 so I was actually thinking that I need to get something which was which is going to engage or beckon somebody to want to know what happened in 2004 that she's asking us not to forget it you know, because it is in a way something that happened years ago, but what has changed ever since you know the when I did my research I found most of the issues are the same. So, something that was so phenomenal I think 2004 was the year when two really gigantic advertising or branding campaigns were pitted against each probably never in the history of Indian politics has it been like that and actually when the Wall Street Journal reported on 2004, they said global branding and political branding comes to India for the first time. So that's why I'm saying like let's please go back to 2004 there's a lot to learn from 2004. Okay, and now I'll also ask, who do you think should pick up this book and read, who is the reader of this book, who will this book benefit, and what is the impact you're looking to make on someone who reads this book. Right, so, you know, I, I could give the most obvious answer which is, you know, students should pick it up because it's a case study it's for MBA people or people and advertising. And then I would have written the book very differently, I would have had pie charts and bar bar graphs and, you know, headlines and sub headlines and nobody would have read it it would have been the most boring thing so I wrote it as a story. And it's, but a real story, and the funny part is in this story, the result is known already. So I've written it like a thriller, it's very fast paced and it's, it literally wants you to know what's happening next that was my aim when I started writing it. I guess if someone goes to Amazon and reads the reviews of what people are saying then they'll understand that everyone is reading it it's not just students anyone who likes a good story, anyone who's interested in the story of India. And today, you know, I think politics they they they say they're two religions in India which is cricket and Bollywood but I say there's a third and it's politics. You know, politics is the new entertainment, because what is not there in politics there's antagonists there's a protagonist there's thrill there's mystery there's a result. There are rebuttals there are salvos I mean what is not happening and the consumers the one who enjoys the most and the consumers the one who's gobbling it up so you know this is what we're seeing all over. So, that really would be my response. Let's dive into the book now and I'm, I read it and I would recommend everyone to read it and I'll read it again when I'm back home and only read books and flights. But let me also now get into some of the content in the book and before I do that I want to ask you two questions. You said right at the upfront. A book has to be written, because it is combination of emotions and knowledge, writing, of course. So, tell me in, in what way this book has been cathartic for you. It's been cathartic because you know it helped me to channelize my thoughts and my thinking and my observations and everything that I had seen so up close and personal from you know within the war room. So, it was cathartic because it's a process of creativity writing you know like I told you I could have actually taken it the textbook way but I wrote it like a thriller. It was so cathartic that you know when I was writing it I would say, I need to go and see 99 South Avenue that was the war room so actually went to Teen Moorthy Bhavan and I looked diagonally across and there was 99 South Avenue. There was 99 and so quiet but the walls and the rooms in the January to May of 2004 saw such action. I went and saw the house in Lodi Road where we pitched for the first time so yeah it was a whole process of going through it and so that yeah it was very cathartic you're right. Okay now political advertising I was going to ask you to so my second question is which is of these chapters is your favorite chapter. Again to ask an author what is your favorite chapter out of a whole volume of the book is always you know difficult for the author to answer but sometimes author do have their favorite chapters and they do share which one is their favorite chapter so let me ask you which is your favorite chapter in the book. So I know you're asking a parent like a parent to choose who's their favorite child and it's very hard to give this answer but I will answer you and it is you know I think the part where we cracked the strategy. So that comes I think chapter 234 you know building up to the first round of pitch everything the day that we went there how we waited in the cold. How we went into the room how we were the only people who had carried a big screen everyone else had only carried a laptop, they were underprepared, but I had got my team to go and check where the pitch will happen. The assumption was that it would be in 99 South Avenue which was the war room but no, they had planted in Lodi estate and some MPs house. So we went and saw that room and it was full of paintings and sculpture and you know so I had to actually get a man to carry a screen, and they were surprised I said what is all this you brought. And I said no we have we have to present from a big screen and not from a laptop so that's a very minor detail but but I'm just saying you know all we got was a letter from them inviting us to a pitch within seven days. No real proper formal brief it was like you study the market and tell us what you think is the opportunity or the problem and how we should take it ahead and literally from there because you know when you start to think. This is not like a FMCG or a durable it's like you're talking to every Indian 18 plus that's the biggest target audience in the world at that time it was 900 million people. So if you think you can go to 900 million people you need an endless budget. So you have to you know target you have to find out your right consumer how did we crack the target target consumer the segmentation. How did we figure out what was the Likuna with what competition was doing and then how we crafted the messages created the campaign so that part is really you know very exciting I think for a reader. Now, this is a book about 2004 elections. Right. Don't forget 2004. Yeah, we're talking about this book. You've written it 18 years of the elections. Why the secrets of 2004, or if I may use the word learnings still relevant 18 years when the space is changed. So, so on and so forth. You know the question is how much has the space changed the space has changed that there is a huge entrant which is social media, which is being used a lot, and I'm going to amplify on this. But it is, you know you are targeting consumers, you are targeting, you need to get to their heart. Today that you have an extra tool which is social media, but you need to get to the water. Now the biggest challenge in any campaign, and it remains the same whether it was 2004 or it is today, which is that you do all this work all this work all this work to make sure that on voting day that person actually goes out to vote. Otherwise it's lost. It's not like consumer product where you have your 8020 rule where you know 20% of your heavy users give you 80% of your revenue. Here every vote is equal rich or urban rural young old. There's no difference between your vote and my vote. My vote is not giving you more money your vote is not giving more money than mine. You can nudge the person on the day of voting to go out to vote. So it's very different from normal brands so that has not changed that you need to find the right issues and you need to hit the heart and the mind so that on the right day. This action to actually leave your house and go and vote is something now you have to see in that in 2004 we saw 55% of India went to vote of which around 4045% of urban India went and around 6070% of rural India went to vote. They feel very empowered on that day. So how are you choosing your consumer you're choosing the one who's going to vote you're choosing the one who likes to chit chat and drawing rooms and not go out. So we have to look into all this data very clearly now social media. Yes, we know that India is a very young country 50% 74% of India is below 34 years and our internet penetration is over a billion mobile mobile, sorry not mobile, not internet mobile. So there's a mobile in every hand, and we know everyone's doing everything on the mobile. They're doing that, you know, for Facebook they're doing their news they're doing everything on the mobile. E commas it's a very important tool tool today in somebody's hand. And the best part is, there's a lot of data, as they say data is the new oil. Are you drilling that data properly if you drill that data properly politics is not about, you know, the urban consumer I'm going to the metro consumer I'll find my consumer base it's going down to that last both that last mohalla that last man in the village or woman. So how are you going to target today because of the mobile, you have a two way communication, I communicate they can respond I look at the data. I know exactly what they're seeing what content they're looking at what they share, where they click, and I can target messages directly to people. So this is a huge new thing that's coming. Having said this, you know, there are still a lot of people in rural India for example, Internet connectivity is 30% how many women actually so into using their mobile phone. I think that I'll just give up on mass media and just go totally mobile would also be dangerous so what is the balance you're playing in media terms. It's a very complicated canvas political advertising marketing is a very political, you know, it's, it's very exciting if you can get your teeth into it properly but you can make a lot of mistakes. Okay. So, essentially you're saying that the challenge remains the same. And when I was reading the book, one more variable nota, there was no nota you know, it was a binary choice, you know, sort of yes or no for a party. It can be a nota so that's a new edition. Now let me also ask you, while we're talking about the book. Let me ask you, you spend so many years in the business of advertising marketing media. You were the president for not for Leo Burnett. How do you think about profession change? How do you think the agency business now that you're a little outside. Yeah, think about it you see it from the outside. You teach you reflect upon it. How do you think the business has changed. And what do you think the ad agency need to do to be able to realign themselves with the transformation possibilities that exist. You know, yes, you're right. There has been a lot of change and it's, I also talked to a lot of my friends today who are CEOs in different agencies. So the business has become very hard. What they tell me is that the revenues are wafer thin margins are very, very thin attracting good talent is hard. In our time, you know, for example, Lintas was a day one company where I spent 18 years day one company on campus at Jamnal al Bajaj where I did my MBA and ad agencies used to get people from the I am stop business schools. Now I think you know, even level three, level four, I don't know how many business school, you know, kids are going because so many more opportunities have opened up like the tech industry and telecom and you know so much so many more attractive things. And if the salaries are not keeping pace, you know, if you're starting salary is two or three lakhs per annum lower than your batch mates and as much as you would want to go into it, you know, you, it's a hard choice to make. Having said and talent therefore is, I don't know the best of talent is coming into the industry but I must say that the industry is still, you know, giving out so much of good creative work still you know such amazing campaigns like the recent ones for Tanishk or Cadbury or, you know, so many more so it's fabulous in our the differences that in our time when I started at Lintas, you know, we would take one option to the client at the most to if the client was very big. And we would say that we are Lintas, we are suggesting this and this runs. And oh my God, till the time I left every client for every single job wanted 100 iterations. If there was a pitch called in the deli market even for a one crore client you'd have 10 agencies, you know, landing up for the pitch so it's got very competitive. That's what I'd say. Thank you so much. We'll come back to the book again let me bring in my senior editorial colleague and our senior editor Mr Ruhay Lameen into the conversations to ask you specific questions about the chapters in the book and about the book. So, let me bring in Mr Ruhay Lameen for the next set of questions. Mr Amil, Ms. Jaswit Sundar and you all yours. Absolutely. Thanks, we've been talking about, you know, yeah, talking about the book earlier as well. So I want to first touch upon the creativity aspect of this, you know, I mean, in political campaigns. We've seen the colors even the fonts and they have been of a certain type if you look at it, for example. And so when you see from 2004 to 2022. Now, how has it evolved in terms of the kind of, you know, style, the neatness, you know, the hygiene factors the creativity at all. Well, how do you see that changed. See the creativity factor. Let me just talk for a minute about 2004. You know, we were pitted against India shining which was going on full page ads, the second commercials, mostly in English. And our entire strategy was to take it regional and rural, and therefore it was a lot of language advertising. Just languages across the country. Honestly speaking from then to now. I haven't seen any huge change, if you ask me. I don't think there's been any huge change and I don't think there's anything that's been very stand out or, you know, brilliant. This is my personal view. What are you saying? Are you saying this miss Sunder that political advertising, in spite of becoming a mainstream project product or mainstream phenomena hasn't evolved in the years. Is that what he has evolved in what in what way has it evolved. What has evolved strategically. Definitely, you know, strategies of how to reach the consumer how to have technology how to do your messaging. But I wish the creative would be a little more focused and really, you know, better that I can only use that word I don't want to beat around the bush. Sometimes the irreverence, sometimes the irreverence in advertising gets attention gets the message to be driven home. I don't see these days either I see very offensive campaigns, or I see very docile campaigns. I don't see irreverent campaigns, which stay in the limits of, you know, decent advertising, but are irreverent, you know, the, I mean, like, you know, like in the cola was, for example, when Coke and Pepsi or thumbs up and Pepsi have it out. That is irreverence or BMW and Mercedes you know that are Apple and Samsung. Those are irreverent they're hitting out each other but they are not offensive to the core. And I think a lot of because today you can trace back especially in the mobile and Internet arena. There's so much of fake news, there's so much of hatred, there's so much of stuff and who's saying what they are trying to bring in a code of conduct but I don't know you can get away with a lot of things. You know, again, Royal will come in but just before Royal comes in want to ask your personal question, you raise a successful family. You now teach a business school, you've been a senior executive and outshot executive, your social circle, you've written a book. Is there a bucket list that Joshua Sundar has, what is left to be done to return a book on cooking with your husband. There's one earlier one also which was my mom's and then this and then yeah. So everybody is asking me what's your next book going to be on. And I said, I'm going to do something later not such hard work. You know, but I don't know I don't know what the next thing is going to be but it's been very exciting to, you know, find this path of an author, you know at this stage of my life so you can never say never and I hope if they're young people listening. You know, you can always keep drilling deep into yourself and find out new things to do. Okay, Royal back to you. Perfect. Miss Sundar tell me, you know, a lot of people have got into professionally into political campaigning and making careers out of it. When you talk about successful campaigns, what are the factors in your view that would define a successful political campaign. Definitely getting the consumer piece right, you know, who are you targeting and what are you going to say to them very simply put, if that goes wrong. So assume that we've got that right. I think one of the most important tools in political advertising compared to any other is the slogan. If you get a good slogan, then that gets currency with people and people start talking about it like India shining was a good slogan for urban India, a lot of urban India people were very taken up by it. Till Till ours was created and it came and became a part of common lingo. I'm on me. Okay, I'm on me. It would just come. And, like, for example, Barack Obama's. Yes, we can, or even Trump's I mean his supporters is not my personal whatever ideology but make America great again. In political advertising, you have to hit the nationalistic, the pride factor for a country the hope. There are those things that you have to press the buttons on. You know, so it's it's a little broad based compared to your own soap or cola or footwear or your TV that you're selling. Right, right. Right, a quick question now what have you not written in the book which you wanted to write about. There are some secrets which are with me. You know, small things little pranks that used to get played. Okay, I'll tell you all one. I've always said that there was no mistake in five months. And I think some 3000 pieces of original work and whatnot. On the last day in the last ad, there was a mistake. They don't know till today, but I'm saying it small mistake. But I think that euphoria of winning and everything so it was kept. We just shut up about it, but yeah the book has a lot about the decoy acts and about, you know, we had built a secret room in the office and there was an armed guard there and we had mobile phones which used to get tapped and then we used to have to change our phone numbers we used to shred paper every night, take it in a sack and go and throw it somewhere far away. So if you read the book there's a lot of it the excitement it's, you don't do this for anyone. Yeah, like making up a thriller. It is making up a thriller. Well, I want to ask you this question. I am a big believer in the craft of advertising of communication, creating the right connect the right messaging. But how much role can advertising play in today's world in 2022, when the world is polarized when there is social media, when there is certain parts of the media which are pliable. Aren't we giving too much credit to political advertising to be able to impact an election. Well, I would never say that it's too much credit, but it's also wrong to say that it's the only thing because it can never be the only thing in a marketing mix. You always have, you have the client first and how much energy they had, how many rallies they went to how much of today it's like how many technology seminar how many webinars, whatever you know how are they reaching out to, so it is, it's all that it's it's the strategy that comes from there it's the rank and file of the party it's the guy right down to the last booth, and what he's doing and how he's galvanizing the people there. What advertising can do is to find you the right consumer to target and to give you a damn potent slogan which becomes a part of common lingo, which fires up the imagination of people, and which which talks to your heart, you know which, which emotionally binds you and that's the day you go out then and take the action. So it can help, but it can never be the only thing. My final question is about you know a lot of campaigns have taken place after 2004 from different political parties across India. Any campaign that has really caught your attention, and why. Well, I would, yeah let's talk about a few. I, if you don't mind I'll talk about a couple internationally. One that really I think fired up and you saw the result was Obama's yes we can, because it was so simple just three words but fired up a whole lot of people who were feeling oppressed or who wanted a change who wanted. You know just he just egged everyone and said that just don't worry you're having a bad day you can get over it you know, and together we will take this country. And it's not that I'm a Trump supporter or anything but his taking of Ronald Reagan's line let's make America great again to make America great again. Actually the way competitive line when you say make America great again you're trying to say that America's bad but I will come and make it great again so as a slogan. And he lost, but you know he had about 72 million votes or whatever it is so that there were his people were happy with it. Coming closer home to India in the last few years. There have been some, there have been some in pockets here and there. Prime Minister Modi's campaign. The slogan is a good signal slogan and a good campaign plank you know and he got the result. I mean people like that, that thought. So, you know, I'm not talking only for the Congress I'm just talking for someone who's observing things. I don't know Congress campaign because I was professionally, you know, a job, but yeah his was a good slogan. Be careful with slogans because you say something and anybody, any party you can make promises. But then if you don't stand up to it then the consumer comes to bite you with your slogan, you know, so it's it you have to take the whole thing into the, you know, it's let me ask you throughout your life to work with corporate clients. Yeah, you know, corporates business houses, brands. How is it working with a political party with him is working with clients. What are the differences and what are the similarities. There are different on Iraq because unlike most clients who have an agency on a continuous basis. What I find with political parties is come a general election or come an assembly election they ask for agencies to come and pitch. And then I don't think they keep that agency on board, you know, like a regular client, and then come the next general election they get another agency so it is. It's a task, you're there for five, six months, or you know, whatever it is, one year, eight months, then you're out so, so it's that. Secondly, they are not regular users of advertising agency so like an MNC vice president, brand manager of a regular client they know exactly the process. Here it was, but I must say they learned very fast. For example, the meeting I went when we went to discuss the financials, how it would happen. I knew that these people had done their homework, and they had probably talked to a lot of people figured out how things work. So they were very quick in picking up things and I think we've worked with some fantastic people on their side. So, yeah, that's the difference, you know, so also when you get your translations I'll tell you something small if you're getting your Bengali translation checked, you know you're sitting in Delhi. It usually goes to the Calcutta office of this client and somebody there in the regional office will say okay this fine changes one word that word. So guess who was checking the Bengali translation, it was Mr. Pranab Mukherjee. Guru Mukhi translation, you know, Dr. MMS. So it was Ahmed Patel was looking at the Gujjati translation so our young executives were running to all these people's houses late in the night so it is a different ball game, it is a different ball game. My last question before I get to ask the last question, when you look in retrospect, what could you have done better to be able to get even a better result though it was a, as you said it was a win. It was a surprise win for a lot of people and what do you think the incumbent party at that time BJP was the incumbent party could have done to be able to do a better campaign. I think as far as our campaign went. You know we said let's do an honest campaign, real campaign so it ran mostly in black and white and as the promise stage came that if we, if you bring us back to power, we will do this that was the little pieces in color. If we could do it again I would say if there was a little more budget we would have put some more ads into urban India but taking the strategy regional and language was actually the big blue ocean strategy that worked for us. As far as BJP is concerned I think they peaked too early. They started India shining in October and the elections actually started in April. So I think they peaked too early or yeah, I have a feeling. This is certain kind of mainstreaming of political advertising now you know it's like you see it as finesse and you know it has become a professional thing much more than what it used to be. A lot of young professionals are looking at this as a serious career being a veteran in this field, what is your advice to them how can they excel at what they're doing. You know this is an area of detail. Okay, so if you are the type I teach and I know the attention span of young people. I don't want to derive them they're extremely smart the reason why I teach is I want to be in the world of young people, their energy is amazing, but they have so many distractions and they are constantly skimming from your to their. So if you want to get into this arena, you've got to roll up your sleeves, and you've got to drill deep, and you have to stay very focused, and you have to get into the nitty gritty of India so an Andhra Pradesh is very different from a Tamil Nadu. So you, if you want to look into this, you really have to get deep into the issues of every state, where are their farmer suicides where is migration and issue where is education and issue, where are women's issues and issue, whereas literacy and issue, and what are the messages you're going to give right down to that last thing right from the capital of that state so it's hard work, it's drilling deep but it's also very exciting if this is what you you like, then it's a great place to be I think. Thank you so much. There's other speed is I usually matter the people can be the Jayati Mukherjee mega Abby meet up energy need to raise a nickel. Sundar with a very any of you would like to ask a question if not I will ask my last question. If you want to ask a question, please type it in the chat box. And let me know if you want to ask a question. Otherwise, let me ask Mr. the last question Mr. a lot has been said about the fact that our society has become very, very polarized. The world has become very polarized. You talked to 70 plus million what is it voted for Trump. The fact is it shows the polarization even in the US, right, it is you can see it daily on social media, you can show see it in news channels. What do you as a commentator if I mean you're an author, you're a teacher, you've been a professional, you've been a CEO. But as a commentator, what do you think communication can do. And especially is there space for political advertising that in some way binds rather than divides because more and more communication today is to divide. If I may, you know, I'm generalizing a bit but I'm not off the mark on that. What do you think can be the role that communication and advertising plays to be able to bring people together to kind of do away with this fissures at least bridge them a bit even if not do away with. You know the very nature of political advertising is that it, it is that two or three or four parties down we're seeing in the regional elections, some of the states have four parties for example UP or Uttarakhand, you know, they're so each one is fighting to give their message out. But I think to answer your question the one that fires up the imagination of people to be proud of their state or their country will be the one that will be less, you know, divisive and creating fissures and bringing that nationalistic wonderful feeling in people that, you know, everyone wants peace and to live happily so I think the people who fan a national sentiment in the advertising will be the ones who will be able to do what you're saying. Thank you. Thank you so much. I hope the trend reverses. I hope there are positive lessons from your book that people take away and strategies that take away. This is just recently and she's been talking to us about her book. Don't forget 2004, which is about winning election strategies, political campaigns, so advertising secrets of a surprise victory. Thank you so much for talking to us. I'm sure you would have inspired people to write a book to be able to put their thoughts together and bring it together for people to be able to learn to contextualize and to be able to then implement it. So wish you luck in your endeavor. Look forward to your book and my suggestion, you and Sundar should host a lunch or a dinner with your happy to join. We will. Thank you so much to cook for everybody. Thank you. Thank you, Dr. Bhattra. It's really an honor for me to be here and really enjoyed this chat with you. And thank you so much for all your support and all the nice questions today. Thank you so much to the whole business world exchange for media impact platform. Thank you. Thank you so much. Good evening. We recommend this book to all of you and look forward to reading its review in the next issue of impact. Thank you so much. Thank you.