 Ladies and gentlemen, I'm standing next to one of the best, a change maker in the Kenyan music industry, Sao Tiso, first manager. Maybe you can introduce yourself. Yes, so my name is Ninka Nauta and I started working with Sao Tiso I think in 2008. So I was at their first show at the Allianz and when I saw them I just knew these guys are going to be really, really big. And yeah, then we started working with them together with my partner at the time, Moa Wesh, she was a producer and we did record their first and second album, One Zoo and later Soul Philosophia and yeah, it was really great. I mean we worked our asses off and it was not easy, especially the beginning years. You know, I really had to go to the media, I didn't know them, nobody knew them. So we just had to knock on so many people's doors and then at some point they had the song Lazizi out, so that one of course more and more people started to know and I would literally have to sing it for people, for them to know who they were, you know. Maybe why did you decide maybe to give these amazing boys a chance to work with them? What did you saw in Sao Tiso? I just, I mean you know you just see it when the talent is there, they were just stars from the beginning. The first show I saw them do, there was only maybe 150 young people there, they were screaming and just, they knew all the lyrics and the way they were on the stage and just the way they were in general, composed, you know, themselves, they were just amazing, yeah. You mentioned earlier that the first time or the first year was very challenging. What are the things maybe you were going through, maybe to make people to understand, to appreciate their music? I mean that's just always, I worked with many other artists as well, I mean you know when they're not known and nobody has started to believe in it yet, everybody just kind of brushes you off, nobody wants to listen to you, so you really have to just kind of keep asking and keep knocking and keep begging almost. You believe in it but if others don't see it yet then it takes a lot of effort. What did you saw in Sao Tiso that keeps you going, always sacrificing your time and, you know, resources and everything just to make sure these boys stand out? First of all of course it was just their stage presence, their energy, their musical capability, just their musicality, you know, and the lyrics, even though I didn't understand all of them, I knew them all by heart at some point and I still didn't understand all of them but yeah, so all of that together just made them stand out so much and then when I got to know them as people as well, the way the four of them were as people together, as friends, supportive of each other, you know, they were fun, they could be crazy as well and just, they could sometimes argue but they would always figure it out. That's such like a forward approach and they were so hard working as well. Yeah, no they were just really hard working, like they would always keep going. You know, as an artist, you know, as an upcoming artist you always have a lot happening. A lot going through your mind, you know. For you to convince the boys to stick together as a group, it will pay one day. Tomorrow will be a brighter day. I don't even know if I really had to convince them. It never happened, we didn't really have conversations, of course, okay we did, there was difficult times and of course, but on the other hand, we were just so busy and we were so sort of just working on the next project and the next and it was really an upward line, you know. So there was not really the time to think like, are we going to make it or something? We just had to keep going. Well, there may be sacrifices you have to make just to make the boys become big as a manager. It didn't feel like sacrifices then, you know. I mean, we went on that journey in the beginning together and I just, it was so exciting and we just wanted to make it happen. So I just was really happy and also thankful to be a part of it. And especially now after all these years, like we've always stayed in touch. This was the beginning years and I've also been on some trips with them abroad, etc., in the years after, but as a manager that was really the beginning years. But we've always stayed in touch and we've all grown as well together. I mean, we all have our families, I have my children here even now, you know, so it's really special. They'll always have a special place in my heart as well. But it didn't feel like a sacrifice. It just felt like a great and amazing project to be a part of. What do you miss about the boys? I mean, it's always great to be around them. They're energy, they're fun and they're just, and they're still really humble, you know. Like, they're just, they're still the same guys, yeah. All right now, I understand you traveled all the way from Netherlands to come and attend Salfers, that was their last dance. What was going through your mind, the emotion when you bought the plane to Kenya? That was really like a sort of full circle moments because of how it started. This was 15 years ago, you know, they already started before I met them. But so, yeah, it was really a sort of full circle moments, really exciting. And at the show, I was just a bit, yeah, nervous about it as well. But it was really special. And just really special to see such a big event that they had pulled off, that they had organized and happened in Kenya, yeah. Okay, just an additional question. What kind of working relationship do you currently have with them? Because I noticed and I listened to them a lot. I noticed some of their music are still on the PENYA platform. So how is your working relationship right now? We don't work together anymore. So it's more like a friend's relationship. But we still have the first two albums on the platform. We're actually in the process of transferring that, but you know, some things kind of move slow, so. But at some point it will switch and it will be on their own platforms, yeah. Okay, just to understand this maybe. Is there maybe a highlight or a memory cherish forever with the boys? Oh my God, that's difficult. Okay, I guess one really special highlight is that they came to my wedding in the Netherlands. And then they performed and we were in the church and that was just, yeah, really special. To have them there and for them to come all the way and to be at my wedding. Yeah, that was really amazing. It was really amazing. But I have so many memories though. Trips in the US and other places we went together, yeah. Okay, as we wind up now, we are here for BN's, you know, BN is starting officially here. Yeah, he's solo career for Alusa Wai and Topless. Just to understand this now, where do you see BN? BN is a star, you know, so I think he's going to go very far and he's going to be bigger, yeah. Yeah, it seems you're very close to BN. You play a big role in his career because you've been invited here at MN's, you know, there's something special about you. Yeah, well, I don't think right now I am playing a role in his career, so I have to be clear about that. But he's a good friend and he's a good friend of our entire family, actually. So my daughters, my husband, we all love him a lot. You're working with artists, Kenyan artists, Saudi Soul, maybe a message to an upcoming artist, maybe Kenyan artists in general, because we haven't seen most of them excelling when it comes to international market, dominating the international market. So Soul have done it, you know, international stages, they perform at, you know, international levels. It's difficult, you know, so I think it's difficult for a lot of artists. I think for Kenyan artists, Saudi Soul are one of the first bands to have gone that far and still it's still difficult. If you're a Nigerian, it's a lot easier right now, you know, so there's so many challenges. But I think the main message is just to not give up and to keep working and to really understand as well, like don't be fooled by sometimes what you see on social media or how it can look on the outside. Because behind the screens there's so much hard work and dedication and just, you know, you just have to keep taking all the steps and keep doing it and keep going and believing in it. And yeah, it's not like you all of a sudden you just wake up and then you're famous. It can happen, you can have one hit, but that doesn't bring you that far, you know, usually. So there's a lot more work around it. You really have to take it very serious and just keep on working at it. Alright, last one to Saudi Soul. I just, I love you guys and I wish you all the best and you know that. Is there something maybe you always wish maybe to tell them? You've never got a chance maybe to tell them. You can tell them. I don't have that. I can tell them when I see them. No, there's nothing in particular. They give you maybe a nickname, you know. Yeah, they gave me a nickname and that nickname was The Budgets. Because I was always very keen on keeping everything within the budget and I would always say no, no, no, we can't do that because it's not in the budgets. And so they kind of make that joke. Alright, thank you so much for your time. I can't let you go without singing one of your Saudi Soul favorites. Oh my God, it has to be Lazy Zee then. Okay, thank you so much for your time. Hope to see you again. Okay, thank you. Let's take a picture.