 The lineup yeah, buddy. Are you good at the world? Good? Good good good man Something tells me you're into something. It's gonna be a lot of me Misses you're shermanning your your mr. Peabody on this FCC thing I feel like That's that's fine. Yeah, I mean actually kind of built it that way for us to say for you to go Well, what about the argument that? Yeah Do you want to do that if you want to take that side? I'm gonna know I'm gonna just do like Mr. Peabody Investment in broadband infrastructure is declined. How's it it my friends on reddit saying? I'm starting to throw Not all of reddit, but sections of reddit into the same bucket as 24-hour television news It's just bad for me Skews your perspective of what's actually going on and actually makes you less informed Well, I guess I've always I've always found big generalizations of reddit kind of problematic just because It's why I hedged that by saying sections because there's plenty of reddit. I still enjoy quite a lot Sure. Yeah, I mean for me reddit is reeling about people bitching about their least favorite wrestler, so If if or arguing people who love Hearthstone talking about how Hearthstone's the worst game that's ever But the whole front page of the internet part of it is what I'm referring to well I mean, but even then it's like I mean, I remember the first time The first time I realized that reddit just kind of had its own motivation I'll keep this quick because I know we're about to start was When Mitt Romney had just gotten the nomination I'd have Just a goober boyfriend the of a friend of mine that was just like you know like Mitt Romney's the most conservative candidate Who's ever run for president? And I'm like how is like I do I had I read this amazing reddit thread about it I'm like All right, let's do this shall we Here we go Daily Tech News show is powered by its audience not outside organizations to find out more head to Daily Tech news show comm slash support This is the Daily Tech News for Thursday May 18th 2017 and it's not gonna stop Because I'm here Tom Merritt and he's here Justin Robert Young Tom I believe we've we've got a lot of We have a righteous quest I feel We have a righteous quest you you mean the quest for understanding for knowledge for truth Indeed we we endeavor to take but a simple sip from the cup of knowledge from the font of knowledge and We we're gonna do it. You know, there's a lot of misinformation. We're talking about net neutrality we're talking about the FCC and what we like to do on this show is just kind of take a pause from a Lot of the noise that goes on around the things like this that are very important and deserve everybody's passion and Maybe just look at exactly what the facts are at least the facts as far as they can be known And what people are saying and what caveats to understand if you're feeling fear if you're feeling uncertainty If you're feeling doubt We can't help you with much, but we could at least eliminate the part of that that's caused by net neutrality At least with that's that's our hope on today's episode, but let's start with some things you should know about security researcher Asian Gnay Sorry Patrick of Corks lab in France has released software called one a key that can recover the key Needed to decrypt data locked up by the wanna cry ransomware in Windows XP That's problematic because XP is harder to infect with the ransomware, but still The poetic part of this is an XP vulnerability an XP bug Means that the prime numbers used to generate wanna cries secret keys sometimes remain intact in the computer's memory until the PC has Powered down so won't work if you've rebooted and it may not work for other reasons But it's an XP vulnerability that helps you recover from an XP vulnerability Yo dawg the European Commission has fined Facebook 122 million dollars for quote incorrect or misleading and quote information regarding its acquisition of WhatsApp specifically regarding the ability to match the identity of WhatsApp and Facebook users slap on the face I Startin in 2018 Microsoft to begin offering its cloud services Azure Office 365 Dynamics 365 from data centers located in Cape Town and Johannesburg South Africa IBM was the first major cloud provider to open data center infrastructure in Africa But Microsoft's getting there quick Amazon and Google have yet to do so and this is this helps with latency obviously with their services there, but it is a developing market and a Big win for for people in South Africa particularly who can take advantage of that Android pay is available in 10 markets and will sue at soon add Brazil Canada Russia Spain and Taiwan says Google There's also new APIs for merchants with loyalty programs available. Yes indeed. You do those Google IO announcements are still trickling out We got more top stories talk about though as we are going to discuss in-depth the US FCC We voted two-to-one in favor of a notice of proposed rulemaking that would eliminate the title to classification of ISPs and seek comment on what if anything should replace the existing open internet guidelines that rely on title to Classification as their justification the FCC plans to take comments until August 16th So those headlines that you read about net neutrality is over Not not yet over They're taking comments until August 16th Pi said the FCC quote will not rely on Hyperbolic statements about the end of the internet as we know it and a hundred forty character Argel Bargle But rather on the data. I really only included this quote because he said Argel Bargle Pi claims that net neutrality rules lower investment in broadband. There's some dispute about that and we're going to talk about Twitter Updated its privacy policy to increase the time it stores in stores users off Twitter web browsing from 10 to 30 days Twitter added a section in its settings to show details about what information the company uses for ad tracking and lets users Deselect specific categories used to serve ads the policy change also removes support for do not track The new privacy policy takes effect on June 18th. I Do not track was just so much Argel Bargle myself Lord you and Argel Bargle You just fall you've immediately fallen in love with Argel Bargle, haven't you? Yeah, there's there's been too much Argel Bargle out there on the Twitter's Yeah, I Everybody go ahead and pay the over on a point three point five on Argel Bargle Hey Twitter Yeah, I don't want you to keep my data for longer necessarily but 30 days is still pretty short Relatively speaking and giving me a clear way to go in and uncheck things in some control is a good move So it feels like house cleaning where they're like, hey We're changing some things up and to do so we have to change our policy But we're doing our best to make it clear to you what we're doing giving you plenty of time to react to that and even Giving you some more fine-tuned controls over that data so This is really about Twitter Has not been able to keep pace with its contemporaries and Facebook and Google in terms of selling ads You know, that's that's how they make money It is how social networks have proven themselves to become money is highly targeted very specific Ads they want to get better at it. This is a step in that direction, but you know, it is kind of fascinating how How much that they've pushed those embeds and and and how that has become Yet another way to track you all the way across the internet. Yeah, I mean track you but also Monetize you right? I mean the the reason these companies track you is to sell the ads and it's a big advantage that Facebook has It's also one of the privacy problems the Facebook has so Twitter giving you a very clear way to turn that off In fact T2T2 says in the chat room that track where you see Twitter content across the web is completely disabled for EU users So you may be living in a place where that's just not even an option for them to do anyway But yeah, they were very early to rely on do not track and do not track has just never caught on It was voluntary in the first place not enough browsers supported it not enough advertisers respected it And so that's dead and so yeah, the main reason you're they're changing things. You're right Justin is to Take better advantage of the data that they do collect But there's also them trying to clean up From the failure of do not track to be their way to respect your privacy. Yeah, oops We couldn't figure out how to respect your privacy. Don't know better next time Google announced the first major software update for Daydream VR code named you Frades It'll come to phones later this year and by phones. I think there's two phones support daydream VR But okay among the improvements. There's more than two I know don't send me the email among the improvements will be a 2d panel available in virtual environments to give access to Android functions Update also adds the ability to cast your screen to a Chromecast so people can see what you're seeing in VR up on the television There'll also be a version of Chrome adapted for VR So this isn't VR in Chrome which also exists don't get confused This is you're in VR and you want to look at a web page boom Chrome can pop up without you leaving the rest of the VR experience Separately from the daydream updates Google also is adding augmented reality features to Chrome for phones that support tango And that is two phones as of the summer There is and that that's funny tango two phones You know Google certainly made a waves in the VR community yesterday with their announcement of the new phoneless daydream project I think Google has a real ability to kind of step in and be a major player in this space Especially when it comes to buying another device if if you know they're there's some really interesting rendering software that they announced yesterday at IO and if they can grab a foothold on a Field that has been demonstrated to be real and it certainly could be something that could be a revenue generator And yet doesn't have a tremendous amount of direction I think that's that's very very rich fertile soil for them. Yeah, and and the idea of these standalone headsets I think is we had to move through it pretty fast yesterday But I think it's really intriguing because these are going to be low-cost VR that are immersive They'll take what they learned from the daydream project that used Phones and be able to make a more immersive version of that. It doesn't require outside sensors So while it won't be as good as an HTC Vive HTC is gonna be making one of these things and and that's what a lot of these features are meant for if I don't have a phone I'm just using a standalone VR. I'm gonna want to use that browser Maybe to check some notifications, etc. Etc. And you don't need a PC and you don't need to be tethered There's a lot there. Well, what you're gonna give up is the the Really tremendous graphics, but to be fair I've I've said since the beginning with with HTC with as a Vive owner that I'm fine for lower fidelity Adventures that allow me to be immersed in it Give me an 8-bit world that I am a part of yeah, and and I'm I'm fine with it I can I can suspend disbelief that this is the the world around me as long as I have the freedom of movement Which is why I'd never really liked the You know the oculus or stuff that is designed PSVR that is designed for you to just sit in one place and maybe stand up or maybe sit down or Yeah, but you're getting tethered by cables and all that Argel Bargle around you You and the Argel Bargle a qualcom said Thursday that it had demonstrated a system to change it to charge Electric vehicles wirelessly while driving just took place in Versailles using two Renault Kangoo cars Driving over pads embedded in the road charge was transferred up to 20 kilowatts at highway speed Okay, so granted you when we did our our our prep on your on your twitch channel earlier today You know you pointed out like here we go again another like promising technology that we'll never see But the fact that it's got qualcom behind it makes me a little more hopeful that we see something like this actually hit the highway and the other part is Charging our electric cars from the road is not something that has to be built into every single road Right, that's one objection that you could think of which is like yeah But now we're gonna have to tear up all the roads it all it does is extend your range It says well if there's some main highways that we put it in then that's going to help your electric car By charging it up a little bit more so you don't have to You know you can spend longer on the road without having to go plug it in and charge it up And I think that could be very advantageous for self-driving cars Yes, there's no doubt that this is more interesting than I initially thought It was when I I I have a tendency to look at some of these things and just say you know The conversation that we have internally is is this a science experiment because if this is a science experiment I'm not really all that excited it would you call would you call that if it's just something unuseless that Like vaporware it's it's just a bunch of oh, I'm not doing it. I'm not getting into your weird cult This is something that I think could be interesting going forward it is Always going to be hampered by the fact that you are creating Great technology that would have to be folded into a public's work a public works project if you're going to put it into publicly owned roads but It is kind of a very exciting thing because how do charge battery keep a battery charged especially for long distances is Something that's very exciting. I will say that you will probably have to fight an uphill battle to close highways Or or a reroute traffic to put this kind of stuff in but who knows I mean in in 10 20 years Who knows exactly? How do I mean you have to repave highways? You have you have to do it all the time if if and again I don't know how this has to be installed But if if it can just be done as part of normal highway maintenance Then then that kind of takes that away And Qualcomm is trying everything to figure out how to get into the automotive market They want to sell the chips that will run this they're in the middle of Takeover of NXP semiconductors if they can get the approval for it. That's supposed to come by June 9th So they that they have a vested interest in making this kind of thing work if they can at all Stephen Frank the founder of a company called panic that makes the coda and Transmit software coded as web editing transmit as a file transfer app Posted the that source code for several of Panic's apps has been stolen from mr. Frank's laptop Frank downloaded a copy of Handbrake And if you've been following the news on daily tech news show and daily tech headlines You know how and break was hacked between May 2nd and May 6th There was a version that had malware built in if you didn't do the checksum Well Frank said he launched handbrake not only without doing the checksum But quote without stopping to wonder why handbrake would need admin privileges when it hadn't before and that was that My Mac was completely entirely compromised in three seconds or less Panic received an email showing some of the files and asking for money Of course, they say they're not gonna pay at the FBI is investigating. Oh But man my heart goes out to Stephen Frank because yes, it is easy to shake your finger and go Ah, that's what you get when you're not careful But I know that feeling of a dialogue box popping up and being so busy. They're like, oh, yeah, I'm sure it's fine and If you if you let yourself do that and all of us are gonna be tempted to do that. Oh, yeah I mean, listen, there's a box. You click the box. See I don't got time for that I don't got to boxes pop it up all the time, right? I know listen to for everybody tut tutting We have all been Stephen Frank and we will all be Stephen Frank again there But both of those both of those programs. I know our top notch. I use transmit as my go-to filed transfer application and I know coda so many of Of the best websites that I've been to where we're built by friends. We're built on coda He is one of the good ones especially for Mac app development. It is a shame But also a cautionary tale to an always double check No one always listen to daily tech news shows so you know that these things are out there and number two Just a slow your role if you if you can slow yourself down in that moment by thinking of Stephen Frank Then then he has done his job. I mean if you download this on May 2nd that that hacked version hasn't been discovered and publicized yet so you're just relying on your own best practices and It's hard in this world of so many updates so many installations to be good every single time I totally understand the other side of this is you know He's Stephen Frank's working with Apple to make sure that malicious versions of his software don't get submitted to the Mac App Store And the Apple has a pretty good handle on that sort of thing But that's one of the things he's worried about on the open web If you're not going through the app store make sure if you download a version of coda and transmit that you're getting it from Panic and and not some third-party version of it that could be hacked although my my reaction when I read this was like well Maybe open source them, you know because that's then you've got a whole system that can prevent that Starting an open source project is no simple thing. I get that sure or also, you know, just make sure that you are buying coda and transmit from Stephen Frank if you are getting it on the open web and from the Mac App Store if you are going through that channel and if you Download it off another site know that you might be riding dirty Folks if you want to get all the tech headlines in about five minutes You got to subscribe to daily tech headlines or other show It's short keeps you up to date if you miss a daily tech news show It's okay. You stay up to date in less than five minutes Go to daily tech headlines comm to subscribe to the podcast. You can go to anchors app Anchor FM and get a version of it there that you can even call in with responses Do we add a call on the anchor version today or you can get it on your Amazon echo as a flash briefing And that's a look at the top stories All right folks There is a lot going on around this net neutrality pi said he's not going to rely on argel bargel We're very clear on that at this point Current rules that the FCC operates under were approved in February 2015 They reclassified net neutrality. I'm sorry. They reclassified internet service providers as title to common carriers An older classification, but it solved the legal basis for enforcing net neutrality They basically said all bits are equal and you're a common carrier We're for bearing all of the stuff that doesn't apply you that involves telephones But we are now on sound legal basis to say you can't prioritize some traffic over others You have to make your best effort to deliver stuff. That's a way over simplification, but that's essentially what it was Now Ajay pie says this has got a change for several reasons One there was no need to change the rules. He says the internet was working fine before 2015 There was no evidence. We needed this to Rules have lowered investment in broadband networks pie says companies aren't spending as much on broadband now because of all of these regulations Regulatory burdens on the ISPs just make it hard to do business in general all of the new regulations and paperwork It has raised the possibility of rate regulation because under title to the FCC can put price controls in place and Nobody wants to get rid of the rules pie says we're fine with that neutrality We just want to have it on a different legal footing that isn't so burdensome now that all sounds perfectly reasonable doesn't it Justin? No, Tom it doesn't I have many friends and they are all on Twitter and they are telling me that net neutrality has died today and and Obama's Perfect world of neutral internet has now been demolished piece by piece by the villain a jeep pie Wow That sounds of Mike. I might want to call Argel bargle all of that. So let's let's let's go through Starting with the evidence for changing rules because there is a lot going on on both sides of this the internet's not gonna die The the the net neutrality rules aren't even changing today as I mentioned earlier You've got until August to tell the FCC what you think about these rules And then in August is when they actually vote on changing the rules And even then if you remember the last time around it takes a while before the rules actually go into place Because they have to publish them and all this sort of thing So there was no need to change the rules the internet was working fine. Well, guess what that argument works both ways Yes, the internet's also working fine right now. You can make exactly the same argument Justin Well Sure, you could the internet seems like it's working. Okay He said we weren't living in a digital dystopia. We're also now not currently living in a digital dystopia. I don't know though Tom I remember when Tom Wheeler who everybody always loved as the savior of open internet Made those heroic common carrier rulings that that immediately made the internet better for everyone forever That was what I was promised. There are some evidence There's some evidence of net neutrality violations free press dot that has a whole list of them If you look at them close, they're all pretty much edge cases. Most of them are mobile Yes, the the net neutrality rules now make all of those cases that free press mentions Inviable there's something that you can complain about But they really weren't the kinds of things that made it difficult to do the internet There is one there's one that I will tell you that has changed and I think personally That the reason Ajit Pai wants to change this is because he is under pressure from the telecoms to do it For this reason, I think this is their big beef. Yeah, what you have Verizon out there going We don't want to change the net neutrality rules. We want to respect all the bits We just want to get this is the thing is that interconnection disputes Which are often confused with net neutrality violations, but they're different That's where Netflix on the back end wants to send their bits into Comcast and Comcast says well We want to charge you because it's an interconnection or better yet forget Netflix cogent level three of these backbone providers Who historically peer with each other say look? We should just come to an agreement and the ISPs who have a lock on the customers say well We're gonna charge you under the current vial of good under the current title to classifications Complaints can be filed in those cases so if Netflix is using cogent to send their internet to me and suddenly I find out that Netflix is not working for me as a Comcast customer and I find out that Comcast is Refusing to upgrade the connections to cogent and that's why I can complain to the FCC The FCC can come to Comcast and say you have to prove why this is happening. Okay Ever since these title to classifications went into place those interconnection disputes have magically been resolved And because nobody wants to get their name on the FCC's list Exactly and the ISPs are magically not making extra money Which they were trying to do with cogent and level three and etc In fact cogent struck a deal with Verizon said it did not have to pay for interconnection level three signed new deals with Verizon and AT&T We don't know how much but we can guess they probably don't have to pay as much because of those complaints So I feel like this is the linchpin here And this is important to understand They're not changing this to benefit you or anyone else They're changing this to benefit the telcos because the telcos want to be able to charge Backbone providers to get in their networks. That's my opinion and This is a key if you are looking at the business model of a lot of these major players because as Comcast has continued to buy You know NBC Universal and and and all of these telecoms are starting to beef up or are being bought by other companies the idea of Being a dumb pipe is Something that they are all realizing that they want to be as profitable as possible like like this this for them That's that's why they are going to want to push this is because they got to maximize Every every every dime out of this investment into the you know running internet to people as doke squirrel says it's a bit more complicated When it comes to backbone interconnectivity and certainly is but the fact of the matter is that disputes Definitely got resolved when suddenly you could complain and there's a lot more complexity He also says, you know, what about Google and Facebook? What about Google and Facebook? They already pay to get on the internet may and and yes Other companies would like them to pay twice, but this really doesn't affect Google and Facebook This isn't about Google and Facebook. This is this is if anything. It's more about Netflix and Hulu Who by the way happened to provide services that some people use as alternatives to television services provided by Comcast and other ISPs wait a minute though Tom I think that this is a Good or bad ruling because of a jeep pie's statement that People aren't putting money into into, you know, bringing the internet to the be all right Yeah, let's look at this pie says among our nation's 12 largest internet service providers domestic broadband capital expenditures decreased by 5.6 percent or 3.6 billion between 2014 and 2016 the biggest reason for that is that AT&T said in November 2012 Before title 2 was even on the table that it was going to increase investment in wireless and wireline until 2015 and then bring that amount back After 2015 so they said ahead of time they were going to cut it in 2015 the fact that they did accounts for most of the decline that pie Identifies because AT&T accounts for about a third of the industry investment If you look at the other companies all tease reaffirmed plans to deploy fiber to the home in 2016 told investors It remained focus on upgrading networks Comcast increased capital investment by 10.2 percent in Q1 2017 spent 7.6 billion on its cable segment From 2015 to 2016 charters pro forma capital investments top 14 and a half billion That's a 15% increase Verizon's total two-year post vote capital expenditure expenditure was 3.1 percent higher Than they were in the two years preceding the vote and here's the biggest one for me That says this is a non-issue companies are required by law to give investors accurate info on risk factors You have to tell your investors this is going to impede our investment None of them no ISP told investors the title 2 was a risk factor And if they mentioned title 2 at all they mentioned it in order to allay investors concerns and say it would have no Material effect on their ability to invest So you're telling me Tom that that's a bit of a red herring by mr. Pie it is it is entirely a red herring I'm not saying that neutrality has helped investment But it has had if anything you could say it's had no effect At least in the in the circle of time in which he circled at that to be the most conservative on it Yeah, I mean and and if you look at this AT&T thing it was something they were gonna do anyway They already talked about it before title 2 came around and by law they all have to tell them So yeah, it doesn't look like this had an effect. Oh, wait a minute Tom Sure, this seems to be a complicated issue with a lot more factors and a little bit of a you know Indeed chicanery from the acting FCC director But if this hasn't killed the internet overnight, then why am I sweating like a hooker in church? I'm not sure how to answer that actually What are you getting at? What are we what are what's gonna happen going forward? Okay, so better Uh Well, we've got we've got a few more points. I want to hit real quickly The argument that there are imposed regulatory burdens on ISPs is true There have been transparency requirements that have not been taken away for ISPs over 250,000 There there has been a perceived prohibition of fast lanes and tiers that companies wanted to use and there's a lot more paperwork So that part's true The possibility of rate regulation. There's been no rate regulation. Okay title 2 regime lets customers file complaints that ISPs are charging Unjust or unreasonable rates. So rate regulation could be imposed So that one cuts both ways you can say well, there hasn't been any but Ajay Pais can say yeah But what's to prevent some future commissioner from changing that we should not be in the business of regulating the rates And and that is not part of the law Wheeler didn't do it But there's nothing stopping another commissioner from doing it And if they roll these back then the federal trade commission can take over hearing complaints about unfair or deceptive practices And and you could you could see where that would actually be a better way for customers to complain than the current system with the FCC Rates and practices need to be just and reasonable. Now ISPs are claiming that's too vague However, as Wheeler pointed out, there's a long history of adjudication and rulemaking on what just and reasonable means So it's not very vague really. So so the argument here would be These Even if we are going to get into a an argument on whether or not things are unjust or unreasonable that the FTC should be hearing this instead of the FCC that is one argument Yeah, is that the FTC could do a better job about that for consumers, which arguably it could in the end though My opinion Justin to give you some hope is that first of all nothing changed Much when these were put in place except for those interconnection agreements that seems to be the biggest Shift in how things are done. So you might expect if these rules are changed back That you'll have more problems with your video streaming if your video streaming service of choice hasn't struck a deal with the ISPs But mostly it's not going to increase the number of people Providing internet. It's not going to suddenly unleash a ton of investment The big problem for consumers is they have a lack of choice To force competitors to to give them better options for the internet at least in many cases It's getting better in some areas of the us but not in all areas And the FCC is hasn't and isn't doing anything to help that where it has been helped It has been helped on its own without any FCC involvement What actually should happen because I mean there really is no legal basis for this The title 2 thing has to use a very old law and then get rid of tons of it to work Before that they tried to use this other section 736 and then that didn't hold up in court There should be a new law uh and the restoring internet freedom act has been proposed It would prohibit the FCC from classifying ISPs as title 2 It really wouldn't do anything to resolve this though It would just stop the FCC from doing something What is a better plan in my opinion is us senator john thune of south and south dakota Who is a chairman of the senate commerce committee wrote a uh ars tectica op ed piece saying Let's ban blocking throttling and paid prioritization of internet traffic at the congressional level Let's just make a new law that says you can't do this so Effectively instead of trying to do this through the FCC Just say internet has become such an indispensable element of our lives that we just need to make Federal I mean the FCC would still enforce that right the FCC's job is to enforce congress's laws The problem is they've got a 1996 and a 1934 law they're trying to apply to 2017 internet And so maybe there just needs to be at the very least A new definition of exactly what the lay of the land is for our communications Yes, and if I were object pi That's what I would be trying to do I would trying to I would be trying to get the authority or to get someone to have the authority To make it easier for ISPs to enter the market so that we can have more competition instead of throwing up Roadblocks uh and taking away other roadblocks and rearranging the deck chairs And and that would actually in my opinion probably actually help consumers, but My thoughts none of this is going to help consumers None of it helped consumers before and none of it's going to help consumers now I don't know tom sounds like a lot of oracle bargle to me. I win Hey, thanks to everybody who participates in our subreddit you can submit stories and vote on them a daily tech news show Dot reddit.com a couple messages before we get out of here Uh, I'm gonna have you read the second one just and I'll read this this first one Tom and patrick discussed real world issues regarding using bulk patient data to cure disease Most follow from a perceived patient fear that their data could be misused I offer a provocative perspective informed by a dr. M analogy I suggest we are suffering from a delusion about data ownership You do not actually own the true facts about you and you don't get to tightly control how available The information about you gets used. You do have a right to object to being harmed by abuse and to expect folks acting maliciously against you to be punished But those protections can be implemented one abstraction away in terms of rules about outcomes rather than practices and then he goes on to compare it to Dr. M Uh, dr. M the dr. M character that we created on buzz out loud back on the day Whether technical legal or contractual data restrictions and rights management mechanisms are clumsy and of lower value than people expect as a UK citizen If I go to my public and communally owned it and funded national health service and give it medical data hoping it can help me My expectation is that the data should be freely used for the good of all if harmful abuses were to occur Certainly, I expect them to be battled, but the checkbox on reuse is ticked by default And matt aka wafal avagas my boy writes in hey dds crew So the auto sharing feature on google photos looks rad But it isn't it just using google plus to make the calculations on saying Quote do you want to send this photo to justin? end quote Because if that's the case will it ever see you since google plus is rarely used Thoughts I actually responded to wafal avagas directly on this It is my understanding that while google plus is one of the vectors that it can get information from it's not the only one For instance, I went into google photos yesterday And it showed me pictures of all the people it could identify But it doesn't know their names And so it suggested showed me a picture of my wife eileen and it said who is this and I was like oh, that's eileen And so I I named her and I could have chosen to associate it with my contact list at which point then It would be able to suggest like hey, you should share these photos with eileen but because of the way machine learning Works doesn't even have to know their name. It could just suggest like hey, you should share it with this person Who are they and then you tell them? Yeah So you don't necessarily need google. Yeah, so if google plus dies tomorrow this this would still work. It all happens in the app uh Thank, why does it say thank to thank roger chang is roger trying to tell us something I don't know. I was wondering why why roger We should thank roger for all the hard work he does producing the show though It's it's totally fair roger roger chang everybody go ahead and and thank thank your local roger chang Oh, wait roger has just changed it to thank just roger yung just roger yung. Thank you so much What do you got going on to tell folks about justin roger chang is what i'm going to go on out uh folks you can go ahead and follow me at twitch tv uh slash twitch.tv slash justin roger yung uh also uh politics politics politics if you're into that and uh the jury podcasts uh and uh night attack of course uh The the long running comedy series featuring brian brushwood and myself Uh, you can now subscribe to that on twitch if uh, you are so inclined so go ahead and check that out Hey, thanks everybody who gives a little value back to this show for the value they get That's the model we work on we hope you like what you get and we hope you can assign a value That includes ryan orman chris dry jason collins All of whom are among the people who got my latest column on how to fix the internet at patreon.com Slash dts our email address is feedback at daily tech news show dot com We're live monday through friday 4 30 p.m. Eastern 20 30 utc at alpha geek radio dot com and diamond club dot tv We're at facebook.com slash daily tech news show where I just started a new facebook group Go check that out and our website is daily tech news show dot com back tomorrow with annie gauss and len peralta talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network Get more at frog pants dot com Club hopes you have enjoyed this problem Ah a little longer show than usual, but that's what happens when you get me talking net neutrality Yeah And all that argel bargel Oh that argel bargel You made my day Bargill in Every day i'm bargill and bargill also warms my heart all the thank yous to roger in the chat room right now Thank you wait. Can you hear me? Yes? Okay, thank you everyone. I don't know that was a brain fart as I can honestly say I don't know why I type that in there I just you know my might be like thanks man. It's okay. It's all right. It's all right. We deserve it Maybe my maybe my subconscious is slowly breaking through Your id I think that is Uh, maybe it's because I just watched a rival last night. Finally watched that movie. Oh wow I know right it's taken so long. I really liked it uh, no, it's it's an exceptional movie and uh You know, I wound up getting into a conversation about it in a bar of all places and uh, it's it's it's hard to kind of translate into a Explaining the plot of it through somebody who has not seen it yet is acts asking you to spoil the entire plot like It's it's really good It made me want to see it again like just talking about how rad of a of a plot it is Jeremy renter that movie I just kept feeling like some at some point you would pull out a bow and arrow And just start shooting at things to get something done So with titles we have too much argl bargle Followed by the cult of argl bargle The company is called panic. They were overdue. Oops. We couldn't respect your privacy If it ain't a dystopia don't fix it. I like that one, too Fcc starts up red herring pie I guess I guess Oops, we could figure out how to protect your privacy again Always listen to dtns We are all steven frank thank roger Uh, don't sell your admin privileges. I might want to call argo bargle Who says that anyway? It's like a six-year-old Bargain That's like a it's like a generational phrase Well, the scouts have their own version, you know Our guile bargle our guile bargle um Stop it. No. Yeah. No the the well-dressed scottish thieves archile burglars archile burglars Too much argo bargle still at the top I mean tom that's that's your call on how all in you want to go on argo bargle I feel like you are enchanted by argo bargle. I I just thought it was hilarious That he used that yeah, I think that's it's I think it's a generation because that to me that just sounds like an old guy I like if it ain't a dystopia don't fix it. Actually, that's my favorite. I do like The internet is getting fcc'd Even though it's a little leading The all titles lead, right? um Yeah, I'll click on it See it and moved up from kv 87 What do you like, Justin? I like the argo bargle one. I mean, it's just it's so fun. Which argo burgle. What do you like? I don't know this up top. I mean too much argo bargle too much argo bargle Although there needs to be a dash if you ever want to get the right argo bargle All right. Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna Do what I did the other day I'm gonna let I'm gonna go ahead and export With a temporary title and then I can change it in the id3 tags after export and give you a few more Minutes to vote you've heard our all three of our favorites here So go and vote at showbot.tv if you're watching live I mean, you can go vote at showbot.tv if you're not watching live, but it won't be on these titles It'll be at somebody else's shows titles. Uh Google ios still going on or is this just uh, no, we're into day two now, which is all all the panels Breakout session and all all that kind of stuff the stuff that people actually go there for and not right So those couple of those couple of like the daydream vr thing that came out of one of the panels there um I it seems like this has been a good io for google I felt pretty solid. Yeah, like nothing earth shattering but everything they announced Felt like it was motivated and useful And their their main theme was like we're an ai first company now not a mobile first company and they're getting ahead of that Uh, and it feels like they actually are Uh, yeah, I mean I I always find Google is at its best and its most focus when it's iterating You know like I think google is great when it it moves one inch whenever they try to move one mile It they they tend to be off in the wilderness somewhere and they just have to you know suck up their pride and kind of come back Um, I think it was uh, I think it was on the verge live blog And I wish I could remember who said it whether it was kasey newton or uh, or someone else, but uh Like partway through like an hour in they said we're an hour in and not a single new messaging app has been launched. Yeah Uh You know, I think that that's you know that they they do so many things well Although I'll tell you what do you want it? Do you want to get a little bit more into your uh, the the the extended? Uh, uh youtube ramp that we were having earlier today. Oh, yeah Sure, why not because that's that's the one area in i o in the i o announcement where I didn't I didn't think they they Spent my time well the one thing I I'm usually complaining about in these these keynotes is like you're wasting my time I'm sitting here not able to do anything else Because I'm watching your announcement and you're not telling me anything worth listening to and that was not true Most of i o they were moving it fast. They were giving useful and valuable information Uh till youtube and then the youtube bit was just like They got me excited when they were like live streaming. I'm like, oh, what cool new live streaming tech you got come on Let's do this And then it was super chat super chat Hey, by the way we Have a garbage chat for live streams and now there's A super version of it. I would certainly be more excited if I turned chat on during our youtube live stream I get that but it's not about that super chat. It's fine. I don't think super chat is a problem But super chat as you're leaving item that i o felt like At best underwhelming so I think if we're going to take the meta argument On where is youtube now? Where does youtube want to go? Ultimately like, you know without a question. It is one of the biggest most important cultural forces uh in technology Of the idea that it is watched as much as it is So hold on. I gotta put the show title Oh, look what went to the top What went to the top? Thank roger Oh, that's cool. I would say use it, but then I don't think people would understand the episode Well, I'm using it anyway, so oh Awesome, we're gonna thank roger See and all all it took was for you to write us write for us to say that You're subconscious to take over all I had to do is take over the teleprompter All right, so I'm sorry Breaking news there So as the question is Where is youtube now? Where's it going? It's not a little cultural force. It is certainly, you know, uh Remained at scale a very The the most reliable place to upload and and stream your videos and yet there seems to be this kind of internal Tempest of of Well, do we want to Go headlong into live streaming like like what twitch does and what facebook has really like pushed or Do we want to you know, are we the the the new cable for an entire generation? You know, how do we want people to consume the content that they like like are we Creating a list for them or is there an easy kind of rss style just uh, you know list of things that they've subscribed to there's there's just kind of all these all these little Undefinables for you. I would love to know what that company's mission statement is Because it really would um, it's learn connect create. Oh wait. No, that's the youtube spaces mission statement. Never mind I think part of it is they they they They need a firm idea of the direction they want to go. I think I mean, I don't know. I don't know enough of those people to get a sense of what they want to accomplish Do they want to be the platform a platform? Do they want to replicate what's been done on? Cable tv where they are a platform, but they also generate their own original content It's So many ways to do it I think twitch I think twitch is is reaping the fruits of being very focused on what they want to be I'll be honest. I think youtube does know who they are But the fact that you don't know that is the problem is the problem That that could very well. I mean that that that might that could I really do I think youtube is yahu circa 2007 Ah, here we go Russell your neck beard because here comes uh, tom's historical knowledge go Well in 2007 yahu was big it was being used by Everyone it was number one in traffic and yet It was stagnant It hadn't done a lot and a lot of people said well, that doesn't need to do a lot. It's yahu. It's great. Everybody uses it It'll be here forever 10 years later They never fixed that and you know, there was the famous peanut butter spread too thin Memo And and all of that. I think yahu's problems are different than youtube. I don't know that their peanut butter is necessarily spread too thin But what I see with youtube is they're not doing anything different They're incredibly successful at being a place for people to become creators of video Gathered a rabbit audience and make money and yes, many creators complain about that I feel like that is just a signal of how good they are at it that they have a significant number of people who complain about How they do it that's that's you know, this the movie studio the tv industry They've always had creators complaining about that. I I think they're very good at that But I don't know what else they are And maybe they're fine with that maybe that they just want to be that but it doesn't seem like it They want launch youtube tv. They they launch youtube originals. They launch youtube red And none of that seems to really move youtube forward in a logical way that I say, oh, okay. That is a natural You know growth For youtube even the most recent youtube design. I barely can tell happened Because they haven't changed things and I have a hard time Finding new things on youtube. I you know when they when they have a new promotion when they're streaming live at Coachella Why don't I see that like there's just No change. It feels very stagnant Um Then there's also this Is youtube profitable Uh, yes, I mean It depends on how you account you account for it, but Honestly, it's it's plenty profitable. They they they make enough money to justify themselves That's one thing Susan Wojcicki has done well as she's come in and and it's sort of Batten down the hatches. They were bringing in tons of money But they weren't quite sure where it was all going and they didn't have a stable relationship with advertisers Uh, that stable relationship with advertisers obviously is being affected by the overall google problem of you know Uh, being so dominant in the ad space that they're getting people pulling their ads because they don't want to buy extremist videos and this and that But I don't think youtube's profitability is is there is their main issue No, I I don't think it is their main issue I think that even if it was a a a write-off for google to own media for an entire demographic Is is it an an investment? Well worth it? Uh, no matter where it it goes. Uh, this is a story from october 18 2016 That uh, we are still in investment mode with jickey said at fortune most powerful women's uh summit in california She explained further that the declining tv viewership in b will 18 to 34 year old 18 34 represents a massive opportunity Which brought in 1.6 billion or so google bought it for 1.6 billion in 2006 by the way. Oh my god. What a steal, right? Yeah, youtube for 1.6 billion jesus pull the trigger on that one every day and twice on sunday even in 2006 Uh, but she said there is no timetable for profitability, which doesn't mean that youtube isn't profitable It means it's not a focus at the moment Yeah, I guess that's what I was trying to say is they're they're not worried about how much money it's making It's making plenty of money, but they're plowing a bunch of that money back in to stuff like youtube red all that Uh, I think they could turn on a dime and make it profitable any moment Sure sure. I mean and that also was that was one of the big knocks on amazon, right? Was that amazon taking enough profit that that they're they're doing too much of their investing in in in the future take more profit and Not the worst thing also there's I've heard a couple people make the argument that a lot of google's ad sales Benefit from being able to throw youtube into the package and so that's kind of a an unwritten Benefit oh that it's also it's a value ad for large packages and stuff I don't know. I don't know if it's technically a value ad Which implies that it's does it cost them anything? But yeah, it's it's that you know, we you can reach this part of the audience as well We'll we'll get someone to sign a deal That benefits google mostly, but maybe they wouldn't have signed the deal or as big a deal otherwise um Yeah I I I agree with you That I am not sure What my relationship with the youtube site is Because I do upload videos there nearly every day And to do that is You know not hard But not exactly intuitive. Yeah watch videos while they're while my videos are uploading every day On channels that I subscribe to and That's also something that is constantly in flux as uh, google youtube decides what videos I'd really like That are ahead of the ones that I've right subscribe to in the easiest way So like And it's also not like oh Well, hey you like all these you know videos of of Jim cornet talking about wwe raw last night Do you know that you could also just watch wwe raw? Right now exactly it's live right now. You just sign up for youtube to be your your thing You can download it on all your devices and now now it's cool. So it's like even when it's trying to tell me things I would like It's not really giving me reasons. It's just saying hey tv youtube right question mark or hey commercials youtube red right and i'm like I don't know what this is. I don't know what i'm getting and You're not even just letting me watch the things that I subscribe to Yeah, no the youtube red is the most The biggest example of what i'm talking about they have an incredibly good service there Remove the commercials from youtube and get free music service And get access to exclusive content that you can't watch otherwise that is highly produced like Totally worth it to large large parts of their audience And everyone looks at it as a waste because they have not done a good job explaining it to people Uh and and and making it clear all of the things that you get with it Offline viewing all of that stuff Because that's the other thing is in and and I don't know what the youtube tv service is I haven't really played around with it But I think that there is an idea that like you know when I watch Uh all this is going to involve me watching wrestling because it might be the only sure no that's fair It's wrestling and prestige television is literally the only thing that I watch youtube tv has nothing to do with youtube Except that it's called youtube tv and it has one part of its on demand area that has youtube videos in it And that's the thing is it's like why isn't that fully integrated why when I if I watch Monday night raw that the next thing that plays Isn't what's on usa but rather Other videos that it already knows that I like it will do that it will add those to your like coming up next if you're watching on demand But I mean honestly they should be they should have a youtube tv channel that has all their originals That I can just pop into and go. What is this? They don't do that. I mean i'm like They of all people Everybody the two people that I think need to really really really get into becoming Accord cutting carrier is youtube and twitter youtube and twitter to me are Are if they were at their best, I would subscribe to both of them. I would double pay for internet so a on youtube I could watch all my live stuff and I could just get better relevant bite-sized content, right and on uh On on twitter When everybody's talking about a thing I just want to click A button and what's the thing that everybody's talking about and it's the same thing, right? When there's something big on twitter sometimes it's really hard to figure out how to get to it yeah, uh But yeah, I mean listen these are hard problems and and especially when you are working within a larger silo like youtube is Uh, it's that these are not easy problems, but I think that there is You I think you hit the nail on the head with the yahoo thing. By the way bill burling game Uh already writing in in regards to the net neutrality discussion. Wow, that's fast Says i'm having a problem remembering all of the points. It'd be helpful if you would list those points in a newsletter Um, I might do that. I might write this up for next week's uh patreon column But in the meantime all of the posts are there at daily tech news show dot com in the show notes So you can check them out there All right, folks. Thanks everybody for watching and listening. You guys are the best in the world I'm not even kidding when I say that and uh, we cannot do this without you So please come back tomorrow when annie gauss is here and lemparalta will be here Any we'll see you then