 Good afternoon, this is the Senate Institutions Committee. We're meeting on Tuesday, March 22nd. I'm Senator Dick McCormick, Vice Chair of the Committee presiding in the absence of the Chair, who will be joining us soon. We have going around the table, we have Senator Engels, Senator Mazer, Senator Palas, and our topic right now, first topic is that we're going to the Department of Corrections on an update. We are being, we do have an audience to the people who are actually involved in this work. So please, if you must use jargon, explain what it means. Okay, thank you. We'll hear first from, forgive me, I'm not sure how to pronounce the name. Nicholas, is DML? Good morning, Senator. Thank you for the introduction. My name is Nick Demmel. I'm the Commissioner of the Department of Corrections and really appreciate the opportunity to be with you today to talk to you about the planning process for a new woman's facility or facilities. So we've got with us a couple of our team members who are focused on this effort and I hope we can get them to weigh in as well. With me, I've got El Cormier, who's our Chief of Operations, Matt DeGestino, who is our Interim Deputy Commissioner, Kathy Eston-Borske, who is our new Director of Women's Services, we're excited to introduce her to this committee. She will also be championing our effort to guide the department through the planning process and get us through our decision points when we hit those points along the way. And then I think there's also one of our colleagues from BGS here and I'll let her introduce herself if she'd like, who can weigh in on any of the construction RFP type process. But I thought first it might be helpful to give you an update on the timeline and where we are in that initial, from initial RFP to the second RFP. And for that, I think I'll hand it over to Al to give you an update on where we've been and where we are in the process now. And then maybe Kathy can speak to how we're managing our planning process and where we're going in the future. Great, thank you Commissioner. Good afternoon. El Cormier, Chief of Operations for the Department of Corrections. So we are moving forward with this project, working collaboratively with BGS. They have submitted the RFP that is on the street for review and bidding. We have a meeting, I believe it's next week on the status of the bid and then to bring the courage from BGS can certainly speak more to that. But we continue to meet with BGS on a regular basis regarding the status of that RFP in our own internal working group comprised of Kathy Astor-Borsky, our facilities director, Matt Knoll, Teresa, or Desiree Crump who's the assistant superintendent at the current Chinden Regional Correctional Facility and various other members. We've recently met with the DV network, the state network with the advocacy groups that are providing services and programs inside of Chinden currently, bringing them in as stakeholders for communication and their thoughts and ideas. I'm moving forward with this project and what those programs may look like both inside of the current facility as well as the women's re-entry facility should that actually come to fruition. Members of our DOC team are traveling to Maine this week to view the current re-entry facility that the Maine Department of Corrections hosts and operates. We'll be checking out that facility as well as discussing their programs with them regarding re-entry and workforce. We'll be checking out their program building which is a newly constructed building that was just completed this summer. So we're hoping to bring back some thoughts and ideas and having discussion with them on pain points plus what's learned in their construction of their project and looking forward to moving forward with our own project. Questions from the committee? Or did you just go silent or are you done? No, that was really it at this point unless there are questions. I'm happy to have you. Eddie. Thank you. No, no. Okay, we'll move on. Thank you. First, before we go any further, Commissioner, I want to apologize for not knowing how to pronounce your name. I've heard it spoken. I had never actually seen it. I didn't make the connection. I didn't apologize. No, it's no problem at all. For a four letter name, people sure do have a hard time with it. So I apologize for my forebearers deciding that was what we were going by. I pictured two M's and an E and a double L with the answer something. So, oh no, my God, hold on. I'm gonna get it. Kathy Aston-Borski. Am I close? You're muted. Kathy, we can't hear you. Am I still silent? Well, I think you did get the name right, but now we can't hear her confirm that. Let's see what she can do. I'm hearing noise. Does that work at all? There we go, we got you. We got you. All right, good. So you got the name, that was perfect. So I'm just starting as the Director of Women's Services and last week we had sort of a kickoff meeting with some of the stakeholders who we wanted to hear from regarding the facility plans. We met with some folks from the Vermont Network and Vermont Works for Women, Mercy Connections and Lund and had a great conversation that was just intended to really listen to them and hear what their ideas were, concerns. And I think it was a great conversation and I think the beginning of having a lot of interaction with those stakeholders as we move forward. And as Chief Cormier said, we're going to the facility in May this weekend, which I'm really looking forward to. I've heard a lot of great things about the facility and the department, but also that our department has a lot of things already online that are maybe from a philosophy standpoint as well. So I think it's going to give us some good ideas to build on, but that we've got a lot of energy going into this project and that we have a lot of opportunity to really make this facility work for the population that we serve. So this is going to be a different facility outside of the prison and it will be a transition period into this other facility and they're not done their sentences yet, but they're getting towards the end of their sentences and this is going to help them transition into society. Is that the plan? It's definitely a work in progress and there's a lot of decisions to be made, but reentry is going to be a big focus and the facility that we're visiting in Maine, they actually have two buildings and one is focused on reentry. So we have a couple of different options available to us that we still need to work through, but as I said, reentry is going to be a big focus and that we want to put a lot of things in place to make that a more meaningful process that the women go through as they go back into the community. And is it being developed because the system that is in place now is it working? There's too much recidivism or what's the emphasis on the new program? What's causing it? What's causing the whole, the new building, the new program, what's the reason behind it? I can take that one. It's a multi-level, multi-faceted approach in what we're taking, but really the impetus behind this is the condition in the age of the current facility, the current trending facility built in 1970, I believe. The deferred maintenance on that building is pretty high. There's a lot of work that needs to be done inside that building to really bring it up to an environment where we see it as really being able to humanize the experience inside for both the staff and the incarcerated population, really bringing a more gender-responsive approach to our supervision and how we conduct our programming. The topic of a new women's facility has been on the agenda for quite a while. And as we started in on our work with the Prison Research Innovation Network project and then visited the main facility, I think starting two years ago with our work with UVM and UVM's work with the University of Southern Maine, everything that we began to learn about the main Department of Corrections, they offered a lot of what we would like to implement here in Vermont. So where we started with basically talking about a new women's facility, then we really started after seeing what they offer, really started focusing on the reentry aspect of it, given the customer level of a majority of our population coming back as federal returns, hoping that we can prepare them better for return to the community. As Kathy said, the reentry program will be a big component of that. I work with the advocates in the community and designated agencies will hopefully assist us in preparing that population for a return, a successful return. Thank you. Hi, mom. Okay. The idea of reentry, that's sort of based on the other statistically, if I understand it correctly, statistically women are less likely to be in trouble for physically violent behavior. It's a lot of bounce checks and selling drugs and stuff. But there are some who have been pretty brutal. They're outliers, but are they included in the reentry philosophy? Well, they would be. I think historically in Vermont, the way sentencing works, pretty much everybody's getting out of jail at some point. And we have to prepare everybody for that. While we do have people convicted of murder and people awaiting trial for murder inside our women's facility now, there's a strong possibility that they may eventually make parole and be returned to the community. And we have to get them ready as well. I think historically we see a lot of victimization issues with the population that comes through that front door, that chinden. We wanna help them deal with those issues through the work and the trauma work and the gender responsive work and giving them the tools to succeed once they leave. So yeah, I think we have to incorporate everybody into our reentry plan. We haven't gone through the full list, but let me say I'd like someone for corrections to kind of explain what exactly the program involves. We don't do program. We do bricks and mortar, but we're doing bricks and mortar to house a program. So we'll have some sense of whether we're dealing it right. Kathy, you wanna take that? I know we've got current programming and then we've got a vision of what we'd like program to potentially be. So I can turn that to Kathy. Yes, that definitely is still under development and we'll be looking at a lot of different options, but certainly we wanna incorporate trauma-informed programs as well as vocational opportunities to make that transition easier. We'll be working with probably the vendors that we are currently working with to create better spaces for those programs so that they will potentially be more effective or that we can involve more women. Programming with women also always involves connecting with their children and maintaining those relationships where possible, trying to help the families move through the incarcerated time that the mom is serving. So there's lots of different aspects that we're looking at and plus, I mean, the facility's several years out. So we currently have a lot going on at the Chittenden facility that we're going to be looking at trying to enhance as well. And what we're looking at here, getting back to bricks and mortar. So the program is still a work in progress. You don't actually have a program to show us at this point. No, we wouldn't have a program as far as what the specific reentry program is. This is part of the team that we've comprised with members of our team, BGS, and conversations with our community providers to really build that. What do they wanna see? So we're still at the philosophical level? Yes. And we can look forward to a program being there. But on the bricks and mortar, is this gonna be a reworking of an existing facility in Chittenden and Caddy, or are you talking about it in location? Well, this is what the next phase of this feasibility study will determine. And BGS can speak to this as well. But part of what we need to find is we need to find a site for this new facility. We need to determine if it is indeed a standalone reentry facility. If it's combined with a new medium security facility. Is that... There are several things that we need to determine through the next phase. Once the contractor is selected and we'll be working with them, along with BGS on site selection, building size, building design. It's very early in those stages. Shall we hear from Mr. D'Agostino? Senator, good afternoon, everyone. I'm not sure that I have anything more to add that hasn't already been said unless anyone has any questions specific to the funding in the capital bill for the work that's being done toward this. Okay. Committee? I don't know what else. Before we get to move on to BGS. I'm just gonna put it in two cents. I appreciate, I think it's a valid point that when you're dealing with women, you got to deal with the fact that many of them are parents. I just want to throw in, that's also often the case with the men. Okay, next up is from BGS. I don't see Joe Lajer here. I'm here to turn to Joe Lajer. But I know, I'm coming live. I actually want to defer it to Brenda Karish first and I'll back her up. Okay, needs for a project. Yes. Welcome. You got lucky, you didn't have to pronounce my name. Oh, to Brenda Karish. No, that's a long name, but it's phonetically very easy. So I am to Brenda Karish. I'm the project manager with BGS. As Al had said, we are currently on the street accepting proposals for A&E services for the next phase of the feasibility study. Beds are actually due tomorrow and then we'll enter the selection process. And we hope to have a contract in place in May and then we will begin the design process. And I don't have much else to add but I'm happy to answer questions. May. Senator Mosley, you must have a question. Can I ask him about the planet? I didn't know if it was a privatized thing. Senator Mosley wants to know what you're thinking of privatizing. He doesn't mean that. That was just to see if he could get a rise out of it. Say that that was that is a question for the COC. I didn't know why you were here I didn't know why you were here. I didn't know you were here and support or private access, right? depends on what you're prioritizing. No, the facility, yeah. No, no, okay. Well, we're moving right along. Eric, you wanna talk to us? We're all here generally to support the policy effort of BGS, Eric Pilgrim, BGS for the record. We, BGS are in a support capacity to help execute the policies that are determined by corrections. And so we stand ready, as Sabrina said, we're gonna have, I think we can have RFP responses in another week or so, and we just keep this process moving. There are a lot of moving parts, a lot of things to look at. There are a lot of ways this can come together. And so our job over the next almost, not quite a year, is to really thoroughly vet all of those options, look what makes sense for BEX practices, for what they're trying to do, look at what properties are on the table, both ones that we currently control and stuff that's available out there and figure out the best mix of elements to keep this project moving forward at the speed of government. Maybe faster. Well, an easy task. Good job, Eddie. Committee, I think we're poised to set a world record. Any further questions? I'm good. Thank you everybody for coming. Thank you. I'm gonna, I feel the need to stretch this out so I'll be taken seriously. I'm gonna find a chair. Do I get a fine chair? Okay, that'd be good. Thank you. Thank you all. If there's no further business, I'll allow a adjournment meeting for the day. That was good. Thank you very much. Thank you everybody.