 Hi, everyone. Amal couldn't be here today, so I'm stepping in for her, so you get to hear me for the introduction and the response. So I'm going to read her introduction, though, so bear with me if it's a little bit stilted. So welcome, everyone. It's a great pleasure to welcome architect and divider Vink Tayu, aka ADVVT, this evening, an inspiring architectural practice led by Jan de Wilder, who is here with us in Gavink and Joe Tayu, who are not here, and committed to, which is an inspiring practice, committed to opening up new possibilities for what architecture can be today. In more than one way, ADVVT embodies a very strong and influential strand of architecture, which they were certainly instrumental in putting forth unto the world scene a number of years ago. Specifically, many of us encountered their work, not me, unfortunately, and its power in person for the first time at the Venice architecture Biennale in 2014, where they were part of the Belgian pavilion. There, another worldly invitation to rediscover Kuhlhaus' elements of architecture was presented through a combination of careful austerity undone by sensuous materiality, minimal interventions undone by its playful absurdity, and novel insertions undone by the feeling of found objects, a kind of dreamy and poetic déjà vu. While some have engaged in expansion of architecture and architectural practice that is outwardly directed, sorry, that is outwardly directed at bringing architectural thinking and design to other fields and practices, ADVVT proposes an expansion of architecture and architectural practice that reimagines every single architectural part, every architectural gesture or opportunity, whether a single drawing, an exhibition of drawings, a stand, a bus stop, a set of interventions into an existing building or a new building, every scale, every program, every type, every material, technique, and every assembly, where their drawn or built is approached with the same level of complete dedication to almost transcend its current state to become a new and unexpected encounter. Reflecting on the work of the practice, Kirsten Geir has once commented on this flattening as the context itself becoming the project. This is a context that is understood beyond place, a situation that can encompass time, program, history, art, and culture. Context precedes concept. But this is no heady practice, rather it is both heady and completely committed to making and the power of making to reinvent what architecture can be and what it can do. Through careful construction in which the many layers are revealed through rich materiality, abstraction through color or on the contrary, deep white aging texture, ADVVT's projects are exquisitely sophisticated presenting the making of architecture as the ultimate responsibility of the architect to render through making drawings and buildings to be, sorry, to render through making drawings and buildings to become equally and at times reversibly architecture. ADVVT exhibited work at the Venice architecture Biennale in 2010 and 2012 as well as 2014 and represented Belgium again in 2016. ADVVT was part of both the 2015 and 2017 additions of the Chicago architecture biennial. In addition to their building practice, the firm's drawing practice was featured in two GTA exhibitions at the A.T. Ash Zurich Theater Objects, a stage for architecture and art in 2014 and again in 2015 for their own show called Carousel. The work of ADVVT appears in many publications as an A plus U, poetry of modesty. Four monographs were published to date in 2011 by Mer, by Mer Paperkunstahl, DeSingle, book threes, sorry, the numbering I find. Okay. And by 2G and Adivis International. Maybe Yann can explain the numbering of their monographs. ADVVT was nominated for the Mies van der Rohe Award in 2013 and 2015 and has won several Belgian architecture awards. Yann de Waalder, Ingevink and Joe Tayu are very active in architectural education. The trio teaches at St. Lucas in Ghent and Brussels, KU Levin's Department of Architecture. Oh, sorry, that's parenthetical, never mind. And at EPFL, Enoch in Lausanne and has been visiting professor at TU Delft, EPFL and the Mendrizzo Academy of Architecture, Universita del Svitzera Italiana. So please welcome Yann de Waalder. Thank you. Okay. You've changed already the slide, but though I had to say the previous slide, I was somehow very happy that my name was wrongly spelled. And I asked to keep it, but you changed it. Maybe sometimes you should not do such things because I think this wrong spelling of my name was the best introduction to our work. I will talk about this and about that and such and so on, because everyone always wants to have a title. And now I will start quickly with introducing you, I believe it's like 15 slides, or 13 slides, each slide one project, but to quickly drone you in some ideas. This is not the final concept of our work, but like 13 ideas that we have to admit that are always around. Then later I will take you much more profoundly into like seven projects, and then we fade away with observations and we will see how many times left. Sometimes we don't reach the end of the slideshow, but we don't mind. This is a facade of a building we built twice for production studios for a dance company and a theater company. And why I like to show the facade, because the facade shows how things are, how they are built, how space is continuously evolving throughout, which spaces need some more intimacy and have a wall with a window and other just our windows. And if you have a close look then you see that none of the construction elements have the same dimension. They change from position and they change from dimension as in fact the load bearing structure needs only those dimensions at a certain point. And they change from materialization as we asked to the engineer when he came on the table the first time and we had asked him to design a construction scheme, he came with concrete beams and concrete columns of the same size and we asked him to do his work again and to propose as a scheme in different materials but also for each point of the scheme the exact dimension and not a kind of overall dimension. And then for us it was easy we just had to shift the plans of the engineer above each other and make choices and that's what we adore a little bit showing it but being lazy at the same time. It's the engineer who made the concept of the facade. Second project this is an interior of a veterinary clinic in which the doctors who commissioned us the job asked to spend as less as possible money in the building so they could spend as much as possible on the equipment of the surgery rooms the MRR scans and whatever is all available in nowadays modern veterinary clinics. The only thing we changed in that idea is that we changed for every wall a kind of other type of rough building block. One time concrete, one time more ceramic, different sizes and then walls need to be connected to each other. And in the sand on the building site we repeated with a contractor how we could do it, how we could nail one wall in the other wall and finally we discovered ourselves how we did how we did it. A kind of contractor's mentality ornament. And on the right side you see the white painted wall. Some walls we painted white and the painter told us that he stopped painting the whole wall because he understood the ornament from the other side. We didn't ask him to do like this but he acted like this. This is what we mean making of things. A third picture is an interior picture of a single family house of which on one hand I could tell you a story about the sustainability of this construction. In an old building we didn't want to insulate on the outside. We placed a glazed building on the inside with an average width towards the outside of one and a half meter and I don't have to tell what the effect is of one and a half meter air insulation and how that works and that in winter you have to heat up less more than in summer and so on. But no I like to tell you or I like to point you merely to the fact how light now comes from above and how you can see in the concrete ring that goes around. This concrete ring was a position of the previous floor. We took it away and light enters the house and if you see the central fireplace what I like especially or what I was looking at especially is how it was positioned towards the former fireplace. Sustainable living not as a question of scientific ideas but as a question of a way of life. Fourth project, one slide. It's a building it's a building it's a taller building renovation of a building which was in a bad condition and in that building we invented the scheme of new columns and if you have a closer look also here you will see that those columns have different sizes depending on the load they had to carry. And then on a certain moment we had a concrete wall which is in fact a beam as it surpasses a space below this level an entrance and as concrete was it's not because we are in Switzerland because we are in Belgium but this concrete was not of the best quality and especially this here this kind of typical given thing that you have this milk cement like we call it in between castwork and concrete made that you had this kind of wrong things in the concrete and the building client the city of Ghent didn't want to pay this to the contractor demanded a new wall and the contractor didn't want to change it and then you know what happens on building sites you gotta fight and you lose time and by that a lot of money and here was yet also another mistake though the plans were clear how the pipe for the fire should run it was totally mis executed and then we made a link we painted this kind of dirtiness red by which it became a new language on its own and it connected two things that have nothing to do with each other with each other and then we went on search for other mistakes and instead of losing time and instead of losing money and getting into troubles redefined for the whole building process a kind of correction modes in how to get along with what went wrong like spelling my name wrong another one it's the occasion of context it's an old abbey you see the large corridor we found out that the wall between corridor and rooms was not an original wall and by that we were allowed by the monumental services to replace the wall and the client wanted to have an open office structure I would say then don't buy an abbey but they wanted to have all walls away so it was impossible but as we found out that this wall was not real wall we could replace it by a system of sliding doors and sometimes you can put it open and you can close it and the old doors in between come in and strange way back but the point I show you this is that the color scheme is the result of the research of the original colors of the rooms and each color each room had another color and that helped us out in reconnecting steel constructions and glazed facades and whatever changed with it but each time along the room we were facing the other color context as a simple treasure the backside of a house was kind of small city palace we call it engend a former single family house which became now a shop and the client bought it because they wanted to have the shop all levels as you can see the light is on but the shop for fire regulations needed an extra staircase as the old wooden staircases were not could not be taken in account and we added to add something where we didn't want to add something but we added the staircase sorry we added the staircase but then we just folded out the perspective of the facade to give the idea that we didn't add anything at all maybe it goes together with this slide this is not the philippe du jardin collage it is a reality and it's a corner point of a square farmsteads a taller house one could say and how spatially wise the old barn is reconnected and I will not explain this project as such but I just wanted to show this slide because I believe it's not too bad in the idea that at the end a certain confusion one could say as part of what we are looking for this confusion not as a statement or a politic but as an idea that architecture rather would be deliver you an everyday way not to survive but a way to discover things I think one of the other vast ingredients in which we are very interested is the idea of the interior maybe this is also the interior of the exterior amongst building parts but this is really the interior we are back in that shop where we reconnected floors not only by staircases but by just leaving away floors reestablishing new experience into the interior interior not by particularly adding but by taking things away I come to this project which is a very small one which is in fact a small barn into a taller garden in which there is a small farm I don't show it we did it many years ago and then after five years the client had four daughters the daughters were expelled into the garden in their own house the small little barn and what you see is a small gap because we are not allowed we could get no building permit for it but still we made a small gap to have light inside and the left side of the gap is a mirror and the right side is the real window just enough to get into that intimacy of the bar just enough to get solder light in it that turns throughout the day and reflects itself in a mirror the interior of the exterior coming into the house and this is the last of this small range of projects that I do not explain totally but once again fundamentally I think all the other projects have been shown up until now they start maybe from in the interior and this is a typical Flemish situation what you see is a kind of cascade of rooms that have been added to the main building you see just a glimpse of the main building over there and that turned out to be a following system about 25 meters of rooms by which the house got connected with a garden and we reconnected in this sense that half of this length we changed back into garden rooms and all the other things I can tell you is just the pleasure of form ah there is one more in this range maybe two more yes a house in Antwerp we are not responsible for the brickwork that's a house from the 60s and the biggest mistake of that house was as you can see on the left and the right side the beautiful facades from the 19th century a nice occasion that this is on the crossing of two streets that come together but the previous client or it was not our client the previous owner built himself house only for himself till the height he could afford and in an architecture that did not took an account anything from the surrounding we could not change that too much but if our client came up to us saying we bought this we proposed to make half a house but use the verticality to restore the lines of the street and on the other hand to avoid that we had to refurbish this part of the house by which we could introduce a small patsio garden and then the last one coming back from the beginning this is to me one of the most important pictures or images we have in our practice this is Gant the city we are from on the right side you see the backside of buildings which has been raised in 1900 when Gant had the advantage of the textile revolutionary industry the investors in this industry has been have been changing the city fundamentally as they organized a building campaign of small houses for all the new laborers they needed for their industry and they are very sympathetic and very symptomatic at the same time for the city of Gant because they are four meters width at that time they were revolutionary in the quality today they are of course to be remade rebuilt whatever it's whatever young couple wants to have in Gant but on the other hand the city of Gant sometimes demolished them and replaces then like six of them with four new houses which I think is a problematic topic when you think about sustainable small living anyway we have a made a house with an energy level which is called low level and this is a passive house next to us which is twice as big from volume I think there is an opposite in interest but anyway I look to this this is our small contribution to the idea of city living and I'm very glad we are the smallest and last idea that's now 15 slides I guess this is here we have done a refurbishment of the house I will not talk about but I just talk about this simple facade which is totally closed as a kind of blind wall and it was covered with cement tiles those cement tiles were as best as made need to be retaken and the wall needed to be restored but the cement tiles that is oblique lining and finally we decided to draw back the texture of those slides on the wall also this is part of our pleasure okay second part of the lecture some real work this is a kind of painting we made but it's of course a collage and it's a drawing we made as an entry of a competition take it in your mind what you see here is the building we're going to talk about any minute but you also should take in your mind those kind of white arcades which are around in this park it's about this it's the psychiatric clinic in Maloneer to Ghent it is a project that has been started also around 1900 until 1900 in fact psychiatric diseases the idea on that was more about locking up people and they were locked up in the city and the sanitary conditions or hygienic conditions were of course you could not imagine and then around 1900 they invented around the city in a park a totally new master plan of separate buildings designated to separate several these different diseases but also to the difference between rich and poor people but anyway delivered a nice concept of an open park which is daily a night open and everyone could enjoy and it had a beautiful amount of architectural a little bit belly poke styled villas like we call them as revolutionary it was at that time later on especially after world war they started to replace buildings one by one and if we had like 14 or even more it depends on how you count of those villas in the beginning you see here a plan of the situation today so many of the villas has been replaced and you can recognize this typically plans of hospital buildings and soon the quality of these beautiful plans this kind of symmetrical plans simple plans disappeared it is now like four years ago this is a situation on model it is like four years ago that a young director a man of my age very young arrives at the moment that there was a new building campaign in demolishing buildings there was one here and this is our I will talk about soon and when he arrived the one was totally demolished and the one we will envision now they only took away tiles and one builder's drove in it but they had to stop because of asbestos problematics and this director said like okay that's true those buildings cannot be used anymore according nowadays regulations and sub consequently subsidies one get in Europe to organize your hospital so the architects until then said yeah well you know then you have to demolishment and you have to replace them and if you can't use them anymore just demolish them because you get subsidies for it so perverse the system was but the the director said let's stop doing it and let's start the other way around what could we do eventually with buildings like such buildings we cannot use anymore in a proper way and he launched a competition invited three architectural offices to think about that building and his question was very open if we as architects were convinced that you could do nothing with it we could advise to demolish it further on we proposed two things we were questioned or we answered the question on one hand but also we proposed something else in the competition first thing we proposed although it was not demanded and that's what I ask you to recall in your memory is that we said as we start to lose the identity or the the the unity of the whole campus we proposed to look to the campus in a different way so good to see is this is the building how we found it so the original building and the addition from the 50s or 40s maybe which is a kind of concrete close box so we went through it and we made a catalog of all the buildings and the additional constructions or the original constructions which were there and our simple proposal was to say let's go back to find unity and let's redefine some of those objects to become unity by clearing them really out as wide arcades lodges places where people can hide when the sun is too hot we should say today since the new climate change or when there was too much rain as it was five years ago in Belgium this was the first thing and we expressed in that sense that our proposal was a proposal not only for a building in this stage but a proposal for further on evolution you see it back now here on this slide the main thing then the building this is a model we made and why we made the model had two things in mind first to show what we want to do but second we also said that our idea is that such a question on think with us about a building and what it could mean for us was a question of process so we could start with a design for it but before we wanted to build we wanted to have a debate with everyone doctors there therapists collaborators who else patients and that's why we make this puppet-scaled model that we could open and by which we could debate with everyone ideas on how we could progress so we said our process our proposal we don't want to see it as a delivery of a design but we want to see it as a future debate and that's why we made this model and the making of this model went together with the making of sketches not only sketches for the competition but later on in the debate with the client sketches in a way that you're almost on site could make them along the along the talk you had but then the proposal may be in last but not least this is what you see today and I guess you can agree on the fact that this is quite accordingly the way we found it on one hand but on the other hand also accordingly the idea of for example the white arcades that should walk around the whole park yes the tiles were gone and the tiles are still gone yes the builder drove in here to the building and we prepared the building because the construction is of course also our concern yes the building is now totally open and we opened all the upstands of the windows and we made a kind of enlarged plan of the basement not the basement of the rich you'll see the ground floor so that in fact the building became part of the park or vice versa the park enters the building I'm just going to walk with you now to through some slides when you come closer you discover some greenhouses those greenhouses entered more fundamentally the project after competition saying on one hand like yes we want to have a building which is totally open but on the other hand we want to have some spaces which could be give us a little bit more protection but we don't want to have a technical building no heating no ventilation so it's a building that you will have to use throughout the seasons in a totally different way no technology upgrade the only thing which is around today is a wi-fi router seemingly that's now even as important than the foundations of a building and then ideas came like yes we have some greenhouses and we will be able to demount them and to replace them and that what actually we're gonna do soon with this one we're gonna kick it out install a small cafe in it and we move on with the project yes we will soon change floors or repair floors I will tell you about later and this is the building as it is and what happens that happens a lot of things but always those kind of things that partly they tried and partly came totally unforeseen psychiatry is quite a tough world and also this hospital has a lot of youngsters and kids amongst them and the youngsters they come in the even and they gather here together there is a street lamp lamp fairly light enough on the other hand the board meetings happen now over there in the winter with a jacket in the summer in the sun and when it rains in the greenhouse and the director tells me it works far more better to come to conclusion in those boards here we took away the floor between basement and between ground level and we made a kind of small arena there is also a nursery school connected and from spring on especially with a better climate conditions teaching happens over there we installed a small fireplace that's the favorite place of the youngsters when they come at evening and and smoke their G together a tree entered the room and when it rains the rain can drone away in the ground and then maybe some attention to ways we helped to survive the building when there were huge gaps due to old electricity passages or whatever we give a route we give the route to the contractor saying every of those gap you should like a little bit stitch it together or when a window sill a window sill was taken away we just cover it with some concrete simply cast it and then another day when we arrived and the Belgian sky was blue with white clouds we decided to paint them white and the daughter of the contractor came in in school holidays to paint them all white and at the end we have now a building which is part of a debate yes sometimes a therapy does not take more than five minutes being with your patient over there yes we understood that for some psychosis the understanding of space is fundamental and is one to one model now helps them sums out throughout this yes there are still non-believers around and there are people patients who walk with a huge bow around it as they are scared but yes there are also a lot of kids playing around and a lot of people or doctors really actively interfering into the house into the building next project i think this project of the caritas psychiatry maybe i'm personally not really ready with it but that's also what was our entry proposal let's move on with it and yes we're gonna make changes even the director claimed in the jury statement that this building was maybe even ready for a future real use maybe in 15 years they could reorganize it as a new administrative building and that's what i believe is part of the chance of this kind of situation that this kind of statements really could work at the end i have to say we saved the building for only 100 000 euros more than the demolishing it's quite a difference the other building which was demolished delivered a new grass field of no use second project the city of charleroi we are now in the french side of belgium as far as you might be interested in our local constraints this is charleroi a city of heavy metal industry not mining but heavy metal industry and this is a photograph from the moment the building i like to talk about was in a building site the building is tall 6000 square meters which is quite something and it is in fact two buildings of each three levels high and each level is averaged seven to eight meters and in the beginning in the middle there is a huge lobby hall 12 000 square meters big it was a time in the 60s that it could have not been big enough but one has to understand the photo is taken from the bell four the city tower looking towards the lower land around the lower city around and those small mountains are residues of the metal industry and the meaning of the building was that in the 60s belgium was very known for their mining and for the metal industry that had become a pallet des expo in which they could show off their products their end products in metal and they were they were very stressful building this and you can see this is unfinished that will be finished later on but this photo was our entry into the competition charleroi has no industry anymore today charleroi unlocally today has a enormous economical problem by that they got subsidies from the european community to restore the building they got 30 million euros but one has to be honest to really renovate it completely for such a tall building you need almost 100 000 euros 100 million euros the brief of the competition told that you got 30 million euros to give this an architectural upgrade in the sense of its appearance but also in the sense of its sustainable character and the brief admitted that there was no money to restore the other spaces i have to tell you the strange thing of the building is when it was delivered in the 60s the economy went bankrupt and they never used the building as whole but the building is there and disconnect upper and lower city the entrance was this photo we had some other materials to explain you here the building was not yet there there is a bell four the lower city railway tracks and the huge difference of height our proposal was to not upgrade the middle part but to take away façades and to enjoy the beautiful concrete structure in all its heights and extents and the staircases that goes along with it as a new open urban park we added few things like a much comfortable elevators and escalators but this was the proposal let's not do too much than just unreveal accordingly this photograph the building into a new urban structure that could connect upper and lower city much better and by that save money to do a basic fundamental technical upgrade of the other parts of the building and though although it was so opposite to what the brief claimed we wanted and we started now two weeks ago the building site of it but we are proud of it in the sense that the scale exercise delivers us the opportunity to experience in real time but on the other hand also again for us it is about I would say a fundamental change in how to get along with the things the context as we have them or find them third project just to make sure that you don't start to believe that we only can accelerate in this kind of conditions as I showed off now you've seen the other 15 projects but now I like to return to a recent delivered building which is about elderly housing and which is about elderly housings from different stages really the room of full equipment and full service and also rooms which we call service apartments which are in fact normal apartments but with a surface on plus a kind of buildings you can grow through if I can see it in an ophthalmistic way I like very much and all the photos you've seen are from the hand of Philippe Dujardin except at the end there are a few others of ourselves but you will understand totally the quality but this is Flanders maybe just to introduce you this is a small village generally around two two-story high buildings this context you can say it's ugly it's of no mean I would say it's true but it's the culture of Flanders and that this building is still there is because just the neighbor didn't want to sell his plot anyway this is the entrance and this is the plan it's quite a huge building it has a lot of rooms and a lot of apartments and normally those buildings appears as being big blocks but we try to rescale it towards the scale of its surrounding and the idea was to have a central axis on which different wings what we call groups in which people live together were transversal orientated to and this is the plan acts you can recognize the central corridors of the different wings also and maybe the plan difference is only this normally rooms of such a buildings have a window that looks straightforward we just in plan shifted each room a little to arrive at this to find a way that we could add in rooms windows that go around the corner we studied it here on models another model of another situation and this is what we told to our client you know they want they always want to be different than the others and we said well maybe just the differences the way we connect rooms to each other or we disconnect apartments the one from the other and this is the result you are not anymore in a room looking to the outside straightforward but you are looking in a room that looks along the building and from this way out you have an oblique perspective which is totally different the building walks a little bit away more openness is found and I could not say much more than saying well this is what we were looking for this corner this window the way the roof comes over and the way you look away back to the village around in the corridor this delivers this plan also the corridor is not this long long way till the end but it's a way in which it diverses in whatever way you look at and it doesn't make that building more expensive it's just a small difference in economy but such a difference in the way of living together and the building is low the above apartments have a pitched ceiling because of the pitched roof and some of the below apartments as there is a small graded small change of land along they are just a little bit sunk into the area and then comes along small details you might not see it directly but you see all the beams coming out with small mirrors at the end and small mirrors in between that do reflect surrounding and sometimes with some roof light with some daylight it's like the roof is a little bit floating over and here you can see everything is a little bit sunk in the area this is from a window in the interior on which the area just enters at the same level of the window sill to me this picture is as much as saying the same thing as in the psychiatric clinic or in the strategic thing of Charleroi is trying to look for where the small difference can deliver the difference in the way we can experience life and here it's in a building which is according building codes and sustainable expectations but still fifth project a pavilion a pavilion which has been demolished in the meantime and one could say maybe that's exactly the definition of a pavilion this pavilion we built it one year ago and it was on the occasion of a festival I don't know anymore if I have pictures of the other thing we did two things it was a temporary construction and this construction was meant to stay but since the client the government of forests and landscape made a mistake in their own building permit they had to demolish it anyway but where it's about I mean pavilions always are about experience experiments experimenting things and I don't know what went in our head but the idea was that we used the old planks of the old pavilion to cast the concrete and then quickly it went a kind of exercise in way of constructing and what you see here a stapling of concrete of blocks of bricks not in a way you usually do there's no mortar in between but we used the brick as a kind of formwork we casted the formwork and then we poured concrete in it to experience a new way of building a way we never did before it was a pure I would not say formalistic but a pure materialistic exercise and this is the building at the search and stage and I will talk about this silver stamp soon because we wanted this building to be in the nature and to be able to pick over the nature as quick as possible we also talked with with with people who know something about leeches and all those caps were interesting for insects and small animals but then for example the concrete we casted roughly as also the roof we throw sand into the cast so that we could obtain this kind of roughness it was like opposite to what we are looking for refinement and precision we wanted to experiment the opposite idea and this is the outcome and again maybe like with the psychiatric clinic those exercises today I'm not ready with it but I'm really interested or we are really interested in the way of making things and not just making them different to be different but to experiment by doing those exercise how different things could be and then you can talk about beauty or not but we believe it has something like beauty and it's a pavilion it's an exercise in balance it has many exercises at the same time and even with the contractor we calculated that the plates should start to bend throughout time I just show it because it is part of the way we love to approach things and now this is the testing point from the beginning and now we are at that point that it has been demolished and I have to catch up watch up with what I'm gonna tell I go back to those silver stamps sorry damped it's a small side story you've seen them this is a hand trail of miss van der Roos to gun hot house and we all know that this house had been damaged throughout his history the original landlords only left short time in it and had to leave the house because of the war coming and later on the house has been occupied by German by Russian and so on and the house got damaged throughout and I had a chance together with Inge to visit the house one week before restoration and we took a series of photographs regarding the traces of time and this is one of the most beautiful it is the silver railing chrome chromatized and then a silver duct tape so the handrail was damaged and someone repaired it with a silver duct tape and to me this was that interesting moment between beauty of richness and beauty of poverty of scarcity it lead to this we make pieces of furniture for a gallery in Antwerp we call it silver tables and this table is just a black metal tape polished with diamonds pieces well dust and it delivers a mirroring this is just opened to the air which is better than any other mirror but we don't chrome it we don't chromatize it the chrome that locks this beauty which is a normal process we don't do it it's also a very chemical process and then when you leave it to the open air or let's say depending on the way you clean it it starts to oxidate again and that was in our interests though this very precise process on the other hand the meaning of life that comes back and I know people who have it and still after years it's still beauty itself but others used to have a party on it or forget their glasses in the next morning they discovered the traces some even in a very wild extents but to us this table became a small thing in which we had to say oppose a little bit to the idea of the need of sustainable materials sustainable actions as such as you see my opinion at least it might be personal how beautiful also this way of life can be I was very happy to discover I was scared I said to Ing always I will never want to go back to the house because I'm pretty sure that they cleaned out too out too much the history of time we have to understand this house is not only a architectural highlight unfortunately it is too much it is also a highlight in European history you know the onyx wall that survived it's thanks to a German soldier if we want it or not but that's a real story he protected it with a brick wall around it because he know that the russians were coming after him and that they were even more cruel than they were beautyists that in restoration they didn't restore it they left it with the traces as the traces were found throughout time and I connected now back to the silver pole there's all idea of confusing qualities of confusing richness delivered us another gallery and in Brussels asked us to make objects well this is now you know this typically building pole we can sell it to you and come to your house and install it it's not a constructional need but it might be an object to change the interior or the way of walking through your space but on top since we covered it with a silver tape it becomes a totally other object and together with that you need this kind of security key to put in here we have different like with cars different levels of quality a gold one a silver one and a taped one depending on your money you want to spend and it goes together with a whole set of columns we deliver if you want to change your house and here you see them in the Biennale 2016 the Belgian pavilion not in the pavilion but in the barn it was a public secret that was a second venue over there and those who knew could see it small story gifts the 2016 pavilion we saved money on our budget we got from the Flemish community and you have to know the Flemish community in Belgium and the Wallonian community they don't work together if you want it or not I would love it but they don't and every year they have to bring in new material and this barn was about of collapsing and this buckets you see we also taped because it's raining inside the Belgian pavilion every year we left it over to the Flemish community saying it's a gift for Belgium and we placed them here a whole collection of things we gift for Belgium and this was quite a political problem we even had to explain it on the Belgian radio that it was not a political statement but we said no we want to save things together it's an obsession observing things this is Turig, Urlikon and this is probably something Swiss people can't stand it's a parking which has structural problems and they had to help it a little bit but it's of an incredible beauty you this is a lesson in construction you see that of course on the below parts you need more of them than on the above parts but it becomes a symphony of poles and although it's an engineer question at the end someone painted them all yellow so there was a concern of perception and of pleasure it is part of this catalogue of things we do aside the silver table there's objects but they are for me and for us as much the way we like to think and observe and enjoy the things we make so we declared this now a project of us we don't know who the author is but we now sell it as an intervention so far that lately recently some of the poles were part of the ready-made show held in the Swiss Institute here in New York they are covered together with a Petra Blaise curtain and with some photographs as you've seen as such last project before we fade away and some observation things this is Flanders profoundly this is a suburb of Ghent houses of the 50s again this kind of private houses there is a huge interest in the private housing in Flanders and it's part of the economical thinking of how to realize housing and we did a kind of small extension of this house and maybe our extension is not that different from all the other things you know Flemish they built first a main house and then they start to make extensions and actually the real life happens in this extensions regarding the garden but there are maybe some difference as you can see with our neighbor the connection with the garden is not that big and here is another window and when you come close you start hopefully to discover material changes like a concrete beam between a wooden beam and a volume seems to also not only cover another room but deliver deliver the other room towards the garden it's a shifted position of volumetries but merely why I wanted to show you is about the interior and this connects again with the first range of photographs that I've shown you you could ask what is this well I'm glad you ask it because that's where it's about it's a whole series of interventions of different constructions that come together but one morning we are there and you try to find the idea and the other morning you don't want to find the idea but you just enjoy the space as you see it concrete column concrete beam but then a wooden window helping the construction scheme a wooden beam from the pitch of the roof coming through the space and then a green column picking up another part a kind of small dense of daily pleasure I just walk with you now quickly through the house we walk back to the main house and you discover the door we've seen from the backside and the way how small parts use now on the long run of the plan delivers lies life and pleasure into the house we are now in a main house and we look to the backyard and the green well let's keep that for a question we walk out the house to the front door and maybe at the end the intervention of the brickwork was just a kind of unconscious mind intervention after we the first time entered the house and found this kind of decorative brickwork from the beginning we traveled to the five projects and a kind of waving out I just want to finish maybe with some things like I started with projects I now like to share some small ideas ideas we also use when we have to debate questions like what is architecture for you and this kind of things this is san gotardo it's a mountain in switzerland and the san gotardo tunnel must be worldwide known everyone takes it every summer on its way to italy coming from the north but we always go over the san gotardo since the first time we did it we never wanted to do it anymore this tunnel and this is a this is a august family picture nothing special tourist cyclists everyone around sunny day but this is exact the same position one year before and this picture is for us the idea of let's say when things that have nothing to do with each other all of a sudden have something to do with each other take in mind the last project that I've shown it's an electricity pile a traffic sign small chapel and a staircase and then this statue with the horse things that have nothing to do with each other but a condition the wet gray day makes that all of a sudden things have something to do with each other we love that idea and I think it's not strange after what I've shown you second thing is an artwork of an flamish architect and I could talk about where it's about but I will save time but what he writes on the after artwork is maybe you know some french metre en jeu in flamish it's open spells at him I could translate by saying is daring to risk things third thing this is not a building of us luckily but this is really nice fourth thing sorry the Belgian artist raised as an architect though Francis Alice who lives in Mexico City once wrote this sometimes doing something poetic can become political and sometimes doing something political can become poetic another nice observation someone replaced the lightning and I don't know why needed to turn it or someone changed the perspective lines of the joinery of bluestone in a church a beautiful fence which was damaged clearly who did repair to this a child student in art someone really annoyed and bored that day it could be you another a couple of years ago in a pfl we had a review final review and we wanted to have onsite of the review with our guests a small middle lunch with nice cheese and whatever we didn't found a table around free as it was tough to its student projects and then we constructed this and totally surprised we found out that even the height of the table was according European regulations we asked ourselves whether Ray and Charles had foreseen this a classic one which is in our range of is it references I don't like the word its observations it's a drawing of soluit you can recognize it was in a porch entry of a beautiful city palace a huge tall city house with many rooms and normally horses and coaches went through it but then in the 90s or late 80s it became an art gallery that's why this art gallery as a piece of soluit the gallery went out to somewhere else and the building was sold and a new landlord installed 23 I believe door studios for students and ordered this electrician to install 23 door bells and the light switch and is of course the murder on an art piece or maybe not maybe it's incredible that I guess this electrician was not aware about what this drawing was or from who it was because then he would never have done it at the end so Lou it guided the works the lining of the bells and tip of the lights which it couldn't have been done better it intrigues me it intrigues us on how things again come together and then work in a different way than foreseen and it brings me this range of observations to a project we showed here in New York at the Friedman-Bendah gallery I think now a small year ago in which we were invited to be part of a collective presentation and the topic of the presentation was pieces of furniture for architects I mean as a homage to architects and what we show here is in fact no more nor less an observation from a workshop of a carpenter or let's say a cabinet maker who often store leftover pieces of plates they used again the wall and we sold it as a day chair a day bed for Frank Lloyd Wright once I was in this house of Frank Lloyd Wright in Chicago and they told me over there at a certain moment when we pointed to one of the lamps of light right that he once declared his lamps as simply an exercise of stapling books upon each other and shifting them a little bit away this was our contribution to the show some plates shifting away becoming an impossible day bed for Frank Lloyd Wright like his furniture or like everything of him was always somehow impossible how nice it also is but of course with another precision and just picking up the plates from the workshop we found out a system of how to connect them and bring them really to a piece on the other hand just the pleasure of observation and going so directly towards something the laziness I talked to you about in the beginning is probably part of our thinking but it's a nice laziness thank you I will just guide you now quickly to some books if you are still interested you can look at it's a series you can only find on second hand mark market we made ourself with Matt Paperkunstaller as mentioned after we made that on the occasion of the 2010 Biennale we were when which we were invited by Kazuyo and Roy this monograph came over us it has never been printed but it will be reprinted soon now 2G became part of the Walter König publishing house with a kind of with a kind of let's say makeover to the actual status of our work Swiss Quartferlach gave us the opportunity to make a monograph and the third one was last year available at the ANU monograph series it sold out also unfortunately and the nice thing about it is that there were three different forms namely a first form which was wrong and which stated architect in D and then Wielder Wink Taiyue so they reprinted the cover as a sleeve around it and we asked him to reprint the cover twice so those who were quick have now three different ANUs on our work though they are the same and as we had this first one book 123 made ourself many years ago now the idea came up that we needed to remake them but we just stole the monographs available at the market and we cut all books at the same size and put them in a box and then the 2G which was not yet in Walter König's hands the brand we made a bootleg version of it by photographing the original book and selling it now as a bootleg this delivers the thing is I think the way we made the book was accordingly the way we love to make projects we stole it and we reformed it into something else this was an unique series I believe of small 100 copies and the funny thing is that they could laugh very much with Walter König on this that's why they now finally as a kind of counter reaction will print a book not only those books we make also books like bravures scarcity beauty which is a small catalog we made for our contribution in the Belgian pavilion we curated but then coming back to our actual today contribution unless ever people so as sit in the introduction I believe the Caritas project is on show at the Venice Biennale this year and for that we made a work book different maybe than other architectural books in which we on the right hand we have each time the photo of Philippe Dujardin but on the left hand we invited a lot of people to comment our projects and this are not only texts by official architectural historians or philosophers but also by the director for example or also by people who have left over there or students who organize all kind of activities over there so it became a workbook which goes beyond the architectural celebration and became now also a workbook they use in the psychiatry to debate architecture and psychiatry and next and next futures for example a doctor wrote a text it's a very small book and it becomes part of this small book series we are setting up right now together with the bravures scarcity book series and it will be available soon also in a box and becomes a new series of commenting projects and last we are not uh unproud we are very proud to be be the third monograph in a spanish series archivist archives which is once again out of spain an unbelievable monograph series very young now and we are part of we are glad to be the third now in it after flores and prats and biarty deplatses and the next i can't tell you but is the next beautiful or interesting practice in this series you can follow us at our instagram accounts universal carousel journey is the one of the at house studio we are running and maybe just at the end this sleepless nights at the kitchen back to bed thank you well thank you for the lecture and and for at least i think for most of us introducing you us to to the work which i i for one wasn't familiar with beforehand and it's very exciting to see maybe start i i'm not sure this is a i'm not sure where the question will go but in looking at things i would say i and probably many other people often try to find a comparison or a frame of reference or a way a way of contextualizing the work we're seeing relative to others and i was struck at a certain point i was looking at your work and thinking i don't know what this is like and then it struck me that the thing that this is most like is frank gary's house which seemed like one of the least likely things for a belgian architects work to be like and so i wonder if that uh relationship resonates at all with your history uh or your work i know that that is of course today the big thing how do you refer your work and i do believe that there's idea of this question of how does it refers to does it helps you was it first or whatever i'm not so sure it's about this this referring thing i think we all are suffering from it by now but i'm thankful to the work of frank Lloyd Wright especially this work of this period i mean why should i deny or why should i confirm i think what i know from this man's work at that time i only could say i love it is it a straight reference i think i never used this work explaining to my clients something we were heading for saying like let's have first a look to frank Lloyd to um frank gary so i mean this this this is at a certain point of course i i knew or i started to knew frank gary at a certain moment as a student and a young architect but i think the thing with references at this moment which is much more interesting is how what is your distance to your reference not what is your closeness or your connection to your reference so i could name other people from a belgium field or french field or whatever who would i like to like to connect to it so uh no yes uh frank gary at that time or at this very young work is is very inspirational but there you have another word which i believe is is too much over quoted or too much quoted what is your inspiration in academic words you have to say what is your reference but it comes all to the same and i do think that um to me at least i hope that on hunt and yes you can name it and on the other end you can feel also the distance to it i do think that yes his kind of closeness at a certain moment in his life towards the topic the client and the commission is might be comparable to this closeness we love to work with or to look at in our work today so maybe i'll try to ask this without any reference but maybe that some of these these ideas would be implicit i was struck when you talked about a the laziness of a way of working because i think for me uh in my own practice and i think as a kind of maybe an emerging or a present generational sensibility laziness is something uh to be commended or uh oh yeah i mean to aspire afterwards in the sense that uh it suggests you might work much more directly with the things at hand instead of torturing yourself in the attempt to find something that's not there already and so i wonder about the kind of ethic if we recontextualize laziness or stripped it of some of its uh its ethical baggage and rethought it i shouldn't have quoted maybe too much the thing is um the only we are not lazy at all i think our work is very intensive is very demanding um we are totally and constantly with it and in it and there is no laziness around at all the only thing that i wanted to say a little bit in a maybe overemphasized and a little bit too funny way is that reading contexts understanding situations embracing moments helps you to avoid at a certain moment the purely conceptual thinking conceptual thinking which nowadays is always let's say uh helped by the reference you see the reference and a concept and then it's okay no uh the the expression of this laziness as merely or only to do it a fact that i believe that the deeper you get into the things the on one hand less you feel needed to do but on the other hand still feel the freedom to do things which maybe are not really contextually connected but you are allowed to do since there is found that free space in that context you read so many times so good and in that sense i feel lazy in the sense that i think we never have to impose too much architectural conceptual thinking in the things as we read the circumstances in time and so on so i think in a way i mean what i find interesting is the idea that if you look closely enough at something you derive from it both the materials themselves which are maybe already present or at hand and the rules for how to use them which leads to a kind of uh not an inevitability but a clarity in why things are the way they are and that was i think very evident in the in some of the work you talked about and and the way you talked about it and then i think what's interesting about your work is that it's not merely that kind of strategic means of dealing with the situation at hand but it also has a very playful or unexpected quality and this is maybe where the color comes in so it's not all just the materials are the the nature of the materials as they are there's also a moment at which you choose to make it pink or salmon and so how did those two aspects of the work something which is contingent on what's already there and something which comes from the outside how did those two in your deal with you how do you deal with those two forces in the work you see many things together but i try to sort out a little bit it is it is it is to me there is of many people say to us like we don't understand that each time in every other project it can be so different i think it is it is for many reasons that first of all we believe that each project is different than you have to start and to want to find out where it's really is about as much as possible on the other hand you you find out throughout time our practices in this constitution now 10 years only that thanks to so having so many different ways of operating from housing to really large-scale buildings to exhibiting to making books to to to teach is that it gives you the opportunity to change each time to make it each time differently and then in one projects you are really conscious about bringing the things in the right way together again reading the context and then in a playful way at the end just shifting the things around to get on it but then to be in another context like in Charleroi in which you experience or this pavilion in which you experience almost the opposite interest of being busy with the ultimate detail the ultimate material composition or construction or whatever and in those projects you discover things like saying you know at the end the architectural detail as we all are longing for doesn't play a role anymore because the contractor has rules and they can do and so on and you discover by doing it like in a pavilion also yeah the whole thing that maybe it's because I'm now in Switzerland of being very precise with all the details turns over into something an experiment to try out and you find out that next to the fact that the other day you're in another building with that detail really working this is something else this differences in in all the project we do has to do I think with this wide first of all wide differences in jobs we get and on the other hand the very energy demanding optimism that for each project we take it as it comes and we don't want to take it as being part of a lined out idea where we think architecture is about I think that's the title also about this about that and so on and maybe it's true and I have to admit that the end everything comes together and there are things that come together but on the other hand I think that they also it's pro it's a sprawl of things are there questions from the audience I have more but maybe I think there's a microphone coming about your photographs of your project I think they are very carefully constructed or I would say that the aesthetics of it is very necessarily counter intuitive to the found quality that you are looking in a space and it reminds me of Gordon Metta Clark perspective that are so carefully crafted to describe an argument spatial argument then my question is how do you use photographs from a beginning of the project do you photograph them as a starting point or you end with them that's maybe something that I did not show today but well we have you know or understand with Philippe Dujardin quite a long understanding at this point and more recently last year's Philippe is also involved in documenting from the first moment the project that's also something we work on to collect it on the other hand to me this photograph thing is very Philippe I think is the first observer of all what we do and he photographs it I never go with a photographer on site to line out how they should look or what they should picture so all the photographs you see are independently taken by Philippe Dujardin and they bring our work in a certain perspective light viewpoint of which I say well it's it's what I was looking at or what I was wanting or what I was thinking like I hope people will look at this in this way and there are many other ways and the way photos and the way you I've shown you so secondly this this photograph thing becomes of course we have like 3 000 photographs of Philippe Dujardin actually on our work and for example the yellow stamp building I showed you is another project we started up with Philippe he is gonna photograph we're gonna photograph those things together as a kind of documentary on things we've as found so to me the photos of Philippe become another important instrument to look ourselves back to our work and when we evolve in work to bring it on the table and to change things there is for example another series we made with him in which he photographed in between building sites on which then we with collages paper collages we changed this the the trace of how we wanted to make the interior how it was for scene so those photographs become to me yeah they are they are quite important to me as you can understand as I shown them all or most of them but they are they are a comment to me on what they see and I do believe that that by his framing them all and then that comes in publications or lectures like this they they really express on from a distance where the work is about on the other hand I have to say and admit and I didn't took time to include those the archivist series is a new set of photographs a lot of black black white light shadow people around Juan Rodriguez is a photographer who works a lot with Alvaro Sica and you see all of a sudden a totally other approach of of captioning the work and I have to say I said it also to Philippe it's interesting to let now enter other photographers to view or to to observe the work so yes and then if you might know a little about filibuster dance work how it evolves nowadays he also let's say performs as an artist more and more and we cannot deny the fact that there are things in between what he is doing in personal interest and what we are doing in personal interest I still think something else need to come up in between us but yes it's it's it's quite important I don't know if this is an answer to your question somehow can I ask a slight follow-up which is I know I mean earlier today for instance we were walking up the stairs and you took a photograph of the pylon holding up in the door and I noticed at the end of the lecture you show a number of photographs and to me I your the compositional sensibility of the work seems informed by photography in the sense that photography also in a way automatically captures a contingent set of relationships that one finds in the world you don't go in and necessarily construct these things precisely as a composition in their own right you find in a way the composition already there and it seems like somehow the this archive not Philip's work but your own archive of photographs which I imagine there must be many of of things like the pylon holding the door open must in some way or like the the intersection at the Swiss and Italian border of the strange collection of objects that exist there must somehow inform also the sensibility about how to put things together in a project maybe I would like to widen it there a little bit more open to the idea of art and architecture as such in the sense that when I was raised as an architect this happened in a school which was a school for art and architecture I was I think one of the last generations who had that opportunity later on the school was sold out to the Bologna European standards of universities and faculties of architecture but at I had to admit that that when I studied this was quite an experience going out to a school to learn the job of the architect the constructor and to find a school in which studios of painting and studios of sculpture and studios of architecture were next to each other so if you missed the door you were in another world and then maybe the context of the Belgian scene in this architect in this art I believe is also to me well I have to admit it's my context I think if I start to think about I will say it now myself but but I try to avoid it but to think about Margrethe which has been brought many times around our work and thinking but also broad hearts thinking about it but then name you one will not know Rene Heavard which is this kind of fundamentalist minimalist picking up things out of context architect raised becoming an artist or I would say Francis Alice who is maybe much more in this political way of working I think this is if I can if it helps to explain it's not only about art about photography of those things but it's also about this surrounding of things in which I think I see when I look to the Belgian art scene the sensitivity to that is quite important is quite prominent to say so I do think that's why this the work we make is often relate back to this idea of this kind of objet trouvée dailiness this kind of idea in art that comes back so I bring it now back to art and I don't want to bring it with a word to reference because references often this kind of words I say oh it's a reference so oh it's good no that's the academical smallness of thinking I have to say but I mean the references it's the art is not the reference the art is a kind of condition is a kind of context which we cannot deny or I cannot deny when I make my work but it's not art it's architecture and it's related to dailiness and the photograph or the painting can go to work of an artist can capture that I got a microphone here we work together five five six years ago and as people may realize that this point you're quite a special man I'm getting really ready for dinner but we'll we'll keep going and going and going and this was how meetings were with you I think it's actually quite nice to realize that you are a special man and it's nice it's nice to be around you but you come also from a fairly special place and to borrow from your last answer you're from from Belgium from from the Flemish part of Belgium which is an incredibly poetic place probably more poetic than most places in Europe and I've been wondering all those years like what would your work be like if you were asked to do a house in Holland where I'm from or a project in the south of France or in all these other places can your your language translate to those places and how would you try to understand the context and I should admit we also worked on a project that was supposed to travel from country country to country together I cannot talk about the project you know I've signed here maybe if I talk about now that I might be jailed this night well actually which is a funny story I found out that we built a building or a set of houses in Holland we designed them for the city in Amersfoort for the developers and we passed their very fast development commission and then we heard nothing about it and I discovered half a year ago that they were in the meantime built that's how it goes when you do it in Holland and the funny thing is that they look very Flemish on the outside and they look very hollandish on the inside and I don't mean then the traditional hollandish way but the way how now houses are built in Holland well the side story your question is what it would be when we work abroad so yes in Holland we did really of the we built really in the city center of Amersfoort and we did really a big survey on understanding the historical building idea and by that we could really the well-stands it at that time the commission was 12 apartments they expected the building with apartments and it got 12 houses even the even the investor was surprised on it and we kept it passed just because it was better and this was the whole thing so I still don't understand what happened afterwards in Italy we worked also so perhaps let's refine it a little bit can you work without a poetic client can I frame back this Francis Alisting I loved very much this political and this poetic the two words coming together even phonetically how we place them together I don't think at any time our goal is in what we make to be poetic and I don't think at any time in what we make we want to be political but I do think that in the work we make the economy I can I don't know if you find this of of main importance but we keep every budget we keep every budget we never make any mistake in budget if we say is that important for architecture I know for most of the world-star architects this is of non-importance but I don't believe this architecture is about that I don't believe architecture is about being poetic what I do believe is that it's nice that later on you can live and work in it and discover a moment of poetry in it so all those things are to me or to us not goals or briefs we give ourselves when we make things but I'm sometimes myself surprised how easily you can bring them to the fore to the foregone where everyone believes like I know it is poetry and but I think yeah as long as it's never a goal and as long as you keep your eyes wide shut you never will find them and and and then this is to me an appreciation not a goal and not a mission and I don't think a poet writes to become poetic he writes to write he writes to write a poem and then later on we see whether he sees whether people found it poetic or not I guess I hope others it's a misunderstanding of my side but no I think to me what you see is economic economy my opinion if we if this this caritas building 100 000 more than demolishing it's about economy the same with the large thing we are doing right now it's about economy it's about re diffusing money over a building project but then at the end probably at the end of the opening I'm pretty sure people will say what a poetic park did we got I hear it saying I hear it saying now already but I'm sometimes really annoyed with that thing but I don't mind you ask what you say and I'm also glad it is there but but it's not the drive to do things at the end people should be able to sleep in bedrooms I think that might set up the last question so thank you it was it's a nice lecture so I followed your work for a while and even though you don't like to think of references I sort of understand the impact your office is having on a lot of European offices I think which is to say that you guys are being used as a reference quite often and it's less of a question I guess than like a concern which I'm curious about your reaction which is your work is very careful but maybe has a potential to be lazy and so it's like on a knife edge and I think while when you guys do it it's very nice and very appropriate and maybe moral let's say I have this concern that there's all these people copying you doing it very poorly and in that case it's actually over it could be a real a big problem it could be unsafe could be you know a lot of things more just uncomfortable or maybe not beautiful and I was just curious knowing the impact you're having on a lot of architecture students and offices what what what you think or if there's a solution or some thought well solution yeah what what can I say about it I think it's it's a very difficult question honestly because it's sensitive towards people I mean yes I sometimes and very often I would like to talk with people on this of which and yeah you see those things you exactly frame the risks I have to say I don't have a solution to that but I would love to talk more about it often with people it is it is well yeah what do you want eh on one hand you want what no it's not that I want to make work that could be a reference to one someone else on the other hand you want to make good work so inevitable it becomes part of a debate and maybe before it becomes part of a debate it becomes part of I see it I admit but I don't feel guilty for it but it becomes part of a culture one could say to okay and I think it's it's okay I think on one hand that that that we can help to change minds on it but of course everyone shoots for himself or a self-keep in mind that what we exactly do is try to create freedoms to then do some things which at the end people might call poetic and I do think then then I miss sometimes another work the the freedom taking that freedom to then their design and draw it just again a little bit different but it's it is it is a thing which I'm not ready with and I I'm quite concerned about also but which is a very difficult topic because I believe it doesn't deliver wrong things not at all but I'm sometimes hungry on that kind of small challenge that comes back that could come back and talking about laziness well I use it often to say it but I do think it's not about laziness so in that sense it's true it's Philip Dujardin as a practical joke sometimes sent me photographs to congratulate me with a new project that I haven't made and of course which is not at all having at all on the other hand to deliver the summer of very nice things of which I don't know what to say but I got overwhelmed by reactions of congratulations that I won a competition in Austria in Australia over summer a quite big thing and when I found out it was a competition in which our name was prominently there and then two other names and one name was of a guy I said oh yes true I know this name I know this guy it was clear to me that it was probably not a practical joke because it was announced on Divisare so it was official but it wasn't true an experiment of a studio in Australia guided by that man who somehow I still don't understand exactly how it happened but somehow they entered an official competition or something and he asked to his students to act like a practice so this student group together with our name entered the competition and won it it's good as summer when you receive that message but it's I don't know I really don't know exactly how I should answer your question honestly but I I really understand your concern thank you those two last questions were