 Ach kalam bival, ach raji za DJ, nani we are about to introduce our first guest. Ahmad Ajizemi, sindor, no? Okay, let's just find out how it's been. Muweni? Kwa extra high five. So sorry, mawe lait uch liye. Low five? Hadiaz ahch beno na chio, like this. One so high five. Na skia piga high five. Nona me kanta regia. Please introduce yourself to the people. My name is Neema. magamuhunda, maperforming artist, writer, and producer. Wow. You were a lot of things, you weren't very many hats. Do you have a favorite? Do you prefer producing more than you like writing? A favorite, no. It depends on the mood at the moment. Sometimes I'm in love with dancing, sometimes I'm in love with writing, sometimes I'm in love with production, logistics. So it really depends on the mood at the moment and also the task and the team involved. We have a dancer here, he's just been refusing to dance for us today. It's a failure. It's a failure. It's a failure. Ah, ah, ah. It's a failure. It's a failure. Ah, ah, ah. Wisdom, wisdom. Alright, tell us about yourself first, before we get to the project that has brought you here today. What would you like to know? Everything. Tell me how, which came first? Is it dancing, is it producing, is it writing? Okay, so I trained as a performing artist, that's in theatre, dance and music, but I specialized in dance. Or rather dance found me, when you're training and then you always picked for the dance projects by the professional choreographers. So I found myself in dance for a very long time and then later on I wanted to put my writings out there. So I started some small TV production to serialize a book I'd written and it went on for a bit. You wrote a book. Yeah, but mostly I'd say, most people know me as a dancer. Yeah, because when you write and when you produce you're behind the scenes, so people never get to see you. So if you ask anyone who's met me, most likely they'll be like, oh, nema, the dancer? Yes. Do you feel that kind of takes away from you a little bit? Like these other children of yours are not being seen or you're just trying? Not really. Not really, I'm proud of all my kids. And I feel like dancers are usually looked down on specifically because it's dance. It's always like, is it just dance? Are you just a dancer? What do you really do for a living? So I'm happy to wear that hat even after more than 20 years. I'm happy to still wear that hat and say I'm still a dancer. You've been dancing 20 years? 20. You don't even look 20 years old. 28 years now, almost 30 years. Since you look great. My son is about to graduate. Yes, that should tell you something. When I grow up, I want to look like you. When I grow up... You should dance. Ah, that's a secret. Not really. It's also how you say, the team, the people you are with. If you work in a job that you like, they say you never work a day in your life. So you always have infanio. If you keep doing this for the next 20 years, of course it will change form and stuff. If you enjoy what you're doing every day, you'll stay young. We're at the next level. We're going to dance for the next 20 years. We're going to dance for the next 20 years. We're going to dance for the next 20 years. Where was this land going? Are we celebrating the untold stories or untold things that went on? We told the story. You know all the stories that are out there from the European perspective. How they came, they conquered and everything. So we told the story from the African perspective, through the eyes of African people, through Mekatilili, through Kwaitalia and Arab Samui, who I'm sure you've heard of before. But some of us lose touch with that history. And from the African perspective basically, how the guys at the coast received it, how the guys in the Kamba land received it, with the stories of the man-eaters. And they got eaten by lands by there because they didn't listen to the Kambas. Because the Wakamba were like, us guys were long-distance traders. This is a route we use. And these guys, the Muzungus, like me, I know better, I know the topography. This is how it goes. But they're going through the water, how do you say? The water in sports for the lions and the cheetahs. That's how they got eaten. If they had followed the Wakamba route, they would have died. So they ignored the African knowledge and history. And they did their own thing. But if you note in Kenya right now, all the towns, all the major towns, you know, are along the old railway line. From Mombasa all the way to Kisumu. Some sprouted off the Kapengurias, the Thikas and the Nanukis because of the railway. So Kenya, let's say, more than Kenya right now, is based off the railway line that the British brought here. Wow. So we're literally still on our past. Our past has literally dictated our future. Of course now the railway is more, not so used so much. So how do you say? Shopping centres are moving more towards the highway. But you will see it's a spread between the railway line and the highway. Always, every town in Kenya. So it's a video to look what you must show less because it makes sense. As in a conflict of a kaleo. Okay. Okay. Kupe High School was not just alright. I watched a video recently. Yes. And it slapped me a little bit. They said that, they use Japan as an example. Japan or the Japanese people, they study in their language. Mathematics, science, whatever scope of the name. But it's always in Japanese. The only time they learn English, or they use English, is learning English. The Chinese is the same thing. Malaysian want to chizanga in and out with Bahasa Malayu. But Africans, we are the only ones who read, everything and learn in English. And the only time we read something that belongs to us, in our language, is something like the Bible. And it's been translated. Does it? Okay. That's a question for another day. Like, why are we like this? Why are we glorifying English so much? There's a song by Fela Kuti. He's an old musician. I don't know if you know it. An African, Chinese man has a Chinese name. An Indian man has an Indian name. Whatever guy has his own name. But African man is lost. Valentine. Okay. We are all victims, but I think it's the absolute, how do you say, trashing of African culture, beliefs, religion for the Western mood. When someone comes and tells you, my God is better than yours, whatever it is that I bring to you, my culture is superior to yours. So basically, I think the early converts looked down and to access any kind of service that would help you to move on in life. To access medicine, you needed to be a member of a church. To access education, you needed to be a member of a church. To access, basically, to be able to get into leadership, to get these white man jobs. You needed to be a Christian. And if you are an animist, if you are not converted, then you are considered an other. So you lack access to these resources. So I think that's also part of the reason. But not all countries have lost everything. For instance, in Tanzania, they study in Swahili. At some point, it was a handicap. But right now, you see one atupita. And they are still keeping their Swahili. And they are still keeping that sense of pride in being Tanzanians. And I think that's something that a lot of us who lost our references have. We lack that pride. We feel inferior. We feel inferior. We feel inferior. We feel inferior. We feel inferior. We feel inferior. We feel inferior. But maybe you carry so much more knowledge, history. What pains me is I want to say like a government institution, just anywhere, alafu upatem, muzongo nawewe, mnendea service, the muzongo will get better treatment than me. In your own country. Have you ever gone to live in another man's country? Do you know how hard it is? Hard. Was if it's not a place where you're the same race, it's not very easy. And then to have it translated, now it's not even easy for me to be in my own country. Ah, wei. I'll take the social fandoms for the job. Alright, so Rondimunda was part of a bigger story. Yes. Tell me about that. Rondimunda was part of, how do you mean, a bigger story? No, when it was attached to the British Council. Oh, right. The project was supported by the British Council. That is in terms of they gave us resources to do the project. They helped us. But the Rondimunda was not just a dance show. We used augmented reality, which means we projected staff on stage. We put a snake that you could not see physically, but you could see it on a screen. So we sort of played with elements from history that we placed there. You could see a sort of, when we were playing the old times. So you could see the savana. So it was a mix of dance and augmented reality. This was enabled by the British Council because they came in, provided us with their fans, enabled us to find the partner in the UK who is Tyrone and Birmingham Arts. And there was Judy Owen. And then there's Luyanda in South Africa. And then there's Dancing to Space in Kenya. And all these three groups came together under the British Council to make this project happen. So the British Council has been very, very supportive. And in fact, they were supportive of the project going forward. It's just that as artists, you know, umeshikili a project, Kamatan or Sita. So he maje kifungatui kifumeshakimia. But given the right circumstances, I believe it's a project that can go very far because it's very educative. It's a project that can go to schools, especially the students who came to watch the performance, they were really impressed. They learnt a lot. They learnt a lot about Kuitalel, about Mekatilili, about the route of the train, about how the train came about, about how Africans feel about it. And also at the tail end of the show we had a sort of utopia segment where we want Africa to be. Where do we want Africa to be? I think we want our systems to work. Yeah. You want to be able to do a show like this and you know I don't have problems that are associated with me not having a good job or stuff like that. You want to be able to go to your house, to be able to drive on the street with no one stoning you or trying to rob you. You want a system to work basically. You want to be able to be proud of who we are. Yeah. And to be in a space where we are comfortable. As a leader, as a doctor, as a dancer, as whatever it is that you choose to be but the system can make it happen for you. You said being proud and dancer again where you were that had so proudly. I remember when I was growing up, when I was coming of age to go to Tashu Education and I did not do. I grew up either wanting to be a lawyer or a doctor but why? Because lawyers, doctors, engineers are the most respectable people in society. Not an actor. That was not even an option. Nibusoma Kwanza and they wanted to do it again. I think it's a mindset. It's terrible. Because not everyone you see all those things you mentioned one is arts based but they're like doctors and engineers. Not everyone has a science mind. Not everyone has that mind of holding all these things inside their mind. Some people are very good artisans. They can produce very good woodwork like what we see here. They can produce very good metalwork. They can produce good cameras. Not everyone has that mind and we should be able to accommodate everybody in their own skill. That's not artisana kazi amukono inakachafu. So no one wants to be proud. No one wants to be proud. But it is necessary. Can that doctor work without the stethoscope? Can our DJ play without a DJ boat? Exactly. Even in this studio it's nice and clean and airy. Someone made it like this and that person is equally important as the engineer who's running this operation who's equally important as the CEO who's making sure the whole operation is going on. So we should all be equally important. We all have our role to play in the society. For like animal farm all animals are important but some are more important than others. And your set book I think is the one that I'll take with me forever. It made me very happy. Thank you, my high school teachers. Alright, so let me ask you what we're asking the question of the day rather if you were in charge of you know, taxing, giving or taking away tax on certain commodities. What would you heavily tax and what would you remove? I would heavily tax elaxery goods. Like what? Like just some make up? I ask you I don't want to touch up but I think I would heavily tax elaxery goods because that's elaxery. I would take away tax from things like medicines hygiene products, feminine hygiene products essential things things that you cannot do without. Reduce the tax on foods. Yeah, basically. For instance, if I want to take away the tax on housing for instance these taxes people need things and the things we want so for the things we want the tax should be higher for the things we need the tax should be lower. Na poko hao zigebo na health and it's okay and it's safe and it's helpful so I've just been shooting. Education, health shelter, the basic needs reduce the tax. I have things to say and the government has just announced things also about education talking about okay, do you think this is just me asking please but now that we've got it here to the spot of the conversation I was watching the news the government has decided that they've broken down the needy into four ranging from the most needy to the least needy so education the bursaries in quotes will be given to heavily concentrate on the most needy you think that's fair to first of all break them and say kuskitambo there was a different system but now it's been scrapped off and now people have been you know a lot okay there's needy and I think that's right I think it's right because if you have some resources some people do well because they have the resources some people do badly because they lack the resources for instance you cannot compare a child who's constantly moving from bandits in Westpacot akisit his class 8 you cannot compare him to a child who's in Kili Mani Junior Academy ya na dropiwa na pikiwa akenda kwa labuki laki tuiko ui mingina tapengina jai na laptop nandiwa na ulizuwa what is how do you send email you get so it's very unbalanced so I do agree that the most needy should get the help as opposed to how do you say the one who has done very well because doing very well is also dependent on what access you have to resources but it has to be a balance between the two okay now that's right on schools last question because we had a very heated debate just last week on set we're talking about corporal punishment is it an African thing because so why is it necessary why do I have to go to school feeling like I'm going to war are you preparing me for something I think everyone is traumatized everyone is dealing with their own demons ii mualimu ajalipua poa pengini kwa kia miufungiwa bibi wana sumbuwa na watatu on your how at the same time it's a tricky thing because children I don't want to say nowadays because kids are just kids it's what you expose them to and what you allow them to do but then we also have different personalities bile mimi nita dil na vita siyo bile uita dil na vita so there has to be I don't really I don't agree at all with corporal punishment akunam tu ni mawe hata sikia na hu yambai hata sikia wukim patia adabu ambai itabu miza yeye the problem is we punish according to what we think not according to what for instance like nowadays if I want to punish my in my daughter I will take away her gadgets that is punishment she has access to it so if I threaten to take away a gadget that is punishment but 10 years ago maybe I would have done something else like clean the house or do something like that's your punishment the whole month the one who's cleaning the house for us or something like that and then it also varies on culture kuna culture zambazo penge na mimi kama manam kaisi wezi kuchapa bava certain age and vice versa man cannot beat a woman a girl who is starting to show like a woman it's very tricky but I don't agree with corporal punishment muntutoneza ungele shuwa na kizidi apane shiwe apane shiwe na zima kwa ebu anas because we have such random extreme cases juzik street county flani muntutome pigo had the head to go for reconstructive surgery if it's genitalia mungine siya siya kata me kosaia lakini kuna ma kosaia ne shuwa li na first surgery na kishinda asana zunfuku zia siya expulsion buwan we don't have to engage or clean someone alafu ikwa mob justice tuwa i say mob justice because it was a group of teachers and staff members yoni ma kasi riko enagan which is also wrong I mean how do you able-bodied adults ganga on a child what are you teaching this child na siya zaya on a child feeling very also you imagine pressure hey what's happening I know of a parent who slapped a teacher for slapping the child because for instance menda shule mambiwa amuna vitabu wali hawa na vitabu henda nyumbani hea kaka pick the most prominent looking person akam slap there's a child buy books doji have any access to how these books come to school this child has no power the only thing you can do is take her out of class asa mwali ma me mwa kuku pigawu mtuoto wali mza zaya kakunya na kachapa mwali mwa kumuliza does this child buy books I mean if anyone is wrong for not buying books it's me it's not a child so if you want to fight fight me and it almost became a fight but the other teachers came in between but somehow I agree with this parent because if the child has done something herself or himself you can punish the child but you don't take makosa mungi na kama fees kama suju shule haina ni nini nini kupanishu mtuoto alright my last question we're just going to take this this eh bana to my piga two rounds so coming to just from children do you guys involve children in sana sana augmented reality because it sounds fast expensive but it sounds it's a beautiful experience and it's not something Kenyans or sisi kama wanenshi where used to are children a part of storytelling um for our nimenda we could not use children of course children are part of the history but we cannot use children because one it's a commercial show school blah blah blah sheria but we had people who portrayed kids in the show so in terms of augmented reality it is available in Kenya it's just like right now it's very expensive so sisi we tried to hack it using our own systems to manage kiasi kiasi kuna vituzili fail pier um bako we need the resources you cannot more money which is okay I'm not blaming the British Council but we the way we planned the money was not enough for the augmented reality because we needed high end gadgets projectors whatever and it didn't really work out but yes anyone can use augmented reality kids most of the time we use it through a gadget through a phone or something but we tried to put it live so by projecting it on a screen yeah do you have a show coming up that we have not talked about coming up soon or performance man I want to go sounds interesting well there are many shows coming up there's a dance live festival coming up I think in June at the Gota Institute there will be many dancers there are dance films we did a couple of dance films for them the last two years ile mwa kawa covid ozuri wali keep going so they ask dancers to send in dance films to be shown as opposed to live performances there's the national there's how do you say the theater festival which will be the national theater later in the year but at the same time there's many things that come up in between like for me you can say I want to show in three weeks in three weeks you'll have a show but at least that's my minimum working time but I also have a piece with two dancers two male dancers maulid and brayo na itapo inafanya 2aivika ribuni it's still nameless but it's more about the current situation na takasi taki na pendasi pendi yeah you must have a nameless is it always like that untitled yes yes again but is it always that you have an idea then name it after or do you start with the name and then have the idea it really it varies sometimes the name comes first sometimes the idea comes first idea hadisha machua but name Bado idea machua to say my size piece you have 15 minutes I want it to go up to 35 minutes so Bado to lend a luck with your cause I'd like to see you at work I'd like to see you at work I'd like to see you at work I'd like to see you at work I'd like to see you fly on the way I'd just maybe give us any social media handle that you'd like us to have so that whoa I don't know what was that money because it was a little bit too much to come back but I am not really active in social media I am on Facebook naema bagamuhunda I am on Twitter muonambali mua naema B I think that's it how do you advertise your shows if you're telling us you have a tool so no na po what are you talking about now who are you talking about I can't British cancel I'm not going to school I'm not going to go to school but personally I'm not a big social media person but that's for a reason I think first of all I'm old school secondly it's it's overexposure it's overexposure I'm a behind the scenes person so I don't know what I'm talking about and then the internet never forgets so the day I become famous so to say may come out what receipts school nita decide kanyuaji kama nilewa nimeji angukia tau everyone will know about it wata nilewa peki angu katika na haza angu a kona na po any time if I decide to if anything happens and I get angry at someone it becomes a big deal so I don't like that kind of exposure you live a a private public life yes I like that when I told you when I grew up I want to be just like you so yeah if I show you something na ta futa o to angu wu kama for instance if my dance show I'll find the theater the national theater I'll find the Gote and Leonsfond says all these different parties to push my agenda not me you're smart any last words before I wrap it up to everyone out there performing arts is a career and if you work hard if you keep working and work hard it can pay off and it's a good career so you can dance too you can act too because some of the changes in this world are brought about by artists poets singers musicians revolutions Bobby Wine in Uganda Professor Jay in Tanzania me kwa whatever had you said a politician same thing in Kenya some of these big politicians but one time writers kibuta kibuana is a big time playwright he used to write plays and also act so what's the letter change sakaja pia le kwa musani you come on a choice to be a gospel artist good morning sakaja yeah so it's a career but you need to work hard you can't be laid back I'm out alone here arts is having feelings and emotions arts be like siji skin or whatever side you have to keep baby baby baby doa kubali ok fine ok fine she's like that and personify arts like that anyway thank you so very much thank you for having me saji kubali kuliza when did you do it? yo ni kaz kama sayzi tv ni ya kwa mt and the little bidi one of my response eh twere hashtag social fire