 Welcome to the 21 Convention Podcast. My name is Steve Maeda and I am your host for today's episode. Today we have 21 Convention alumni Ed Akin. He spoke at the August 2014 event in Austin, Texas and will be at our Tampa event 2014 October 24th, 25th, 26th. Get your tickets at the 21convention.com slash event. And what we're talking about here with Ed is martial arts fighting and cultivating that warrior mentality. We get into heavy, heavy detail about a whole bunch of different situations, whether that comes to fighting, violence, or how to process that trauma out of you. And really, you know, what it means to be an expression of yourself in today's modern world and how difficult that can be. Whether you're an entrepreneur, whether you're somebody that's just into bettering yourself or you're really into martial arts, man, because we talk a lot about that. This podcast is going to tell you how to cultivate and develop that warrior edge. Now, you can find out more about Ed at fightfastinflea.com. And of course, if you want to spend time with myself, with Ed, and 20 other speakers, 20 other experts at the top of their field, whether that's fitness, dating relationships, martial arts, or entrepreneurship, anything really to be the ideal man you've got to attend at the 21convention 2014 in Tampa, Florida. That's October 24th, 25th, 26th. And man, I love making these podcasts. I love interacting with you guys, but I love even more having a conversation face to face with you. So let's do that. Until then, subscribe to our YouTube channel. Or if you're listening to this on iTunes or Stitcher, get involved with us there and subscribe to us. If you can leave us some stars or a written review or some thumbs up, whatever it is, spread the love and we'll spread it back to you. Thanks for watching and let's get into this interview with Ed Akin. What's going on, Edward Akin, upcoming speaker at the 21 convention in Tampa 2014. And you also gave a speech that actually has some mad traffic on the killer instinct from 2012 in Austin, Texas. Both you and I are actually in Austin, Texas right now doing this interview. And man, and it's both our birthdays tomorrow. That's right. That's right. This is a crazy thing. So we should have a big party. My wife's in Vegas. Man, knowing her, if she hears that. But yeah, it's crazy. So September 4th, our birthdays are tomorrow. And man, basically what I want to get to here is fighting. And you teach a lot of different fighting. You're a real experienced martial artist. But one of the things that you bring to the table that is so undeniably unique in all the training that I've done and people that I know, whether they're in the sports of martial arts or whatnot, you specialize in a real life fighting, real life street fighting, like crazy violence stuff on basically how to protect yourself, how to defend yourself and how to walk around knowing the differences between that. What is the difference between street fighting and martial arts? Well, street fighting, you can say it can be anything goes. We're talking weapons, knives, guns, two-on-ones, three-on-ones, five-on-ones, five-on-fives. And it's really just, there are no rules and there are certain things that you do in sport that will get you in trouble really quick on the street. So it encompasses a lot more dynamic training, a lot of fluid training. And it's more the experience. It's better to go in basically and experience fighting two guys, not in a real fight, but I'm talking about training to get that experience to kind of open your eyes as to what really works and what doesn't. Whereas a lot of traditional martial arts or even sport martial arts, take MMA for example, that's one of the best for self-defense, but it's one of the best for a one-on-one controlled situation self-defense. And if you take that mentality into a bar fight, depending on the fight, it can get you in trouble. If three people jump in or if there's weapons or bottles are flying or if you do a double-a, take the guy down, all of a sudden there's four people kicking you in the head, it's a completely different scenario and you have to consider that. As a self-defense practitioner, those are the things you have to consider. And it's really, even arts like Kali where it's a weapon of based art, it's a knife based art, sticks and knives, a lot of that training can still get you in real bad trouble in a real knife fight. And so it's really looking at reality, how do things unfold and basically looking at the bullshit out there, looking at your own bullshit, what are you caught in? Oh, you can do 50 disarms with a knife, but in real life, do people attack you that way? Most of the time they don't. So it's really the training method, but it's more the mindset that you get from the training method. And I can teach you the mindset, but I can't teach you that without taking you through the experiences, because you can know it all, but the moment the shit hits the fan, it has to become internalized because you're just going to react. So you have to go through step by step, throwing yourself into the kitchen to kind of, you know, experience the scramble. Yeah, right. Now, man, you brought something up that in high school wrestling, there was this guy a couple years ahead of me, and he got in fights, man, he could kick some ass. And I remember after he got out of high school, I saw him and I was like two years younger than him, so I was still in and his eye was all fucked up. Like it was this bulged eye. It was totally crazy, man. And I guess what had happened was he got in a fight. He took the guy down, was fucking him up because I mean, he got in fights, he knew it was up. But as he had taken the guy down, took it to the ground, he got kicked in the eye and the boot, I guess, went in. And, you know, he was like partially blinded and his eye was like disfigured or so. It was crazy, man. But and still to this day, you know, I still talk to him. So this is like 20 years later, it's totally fucking crazy. It's very, very common. One of our, one of my old trained partners, Brothers, was a really tough wrestler and he was an experienced street fighter. But he was, see, that's the thing is that you can, you can win a lot of fight like MMA guys are going to be the toughest guys. Totally. You're going to be the best guys for a street fight for one. And they may have gotten into 2030 street fights where their particular strategy has worked for them because nobody's jumped in or no weapon was pulled. And so, but that's, that's so they get trapped in their own bullshit of this is going to work every time. And so that, you know, my, my buddy's friend was a real tough wrestler. He actually did the Gracie challenge back in the day. He went in there and challenge choice and he got, he got checked out, but he did pretty well. And he, he, you know, every weekend he would go to a bar, stare somebody down, they go outside. He double egg him, ground pound him and he'd win. Well, he happened to do that against a off duty cop who was drunk at the time, went outside. And I'm sure that my friend's brother double egged him was having victory. The guy panic pulled his gun and killed him. So he ain't he I'm sure a guarantee he wasn't expecting it never happened before. Just like the off duty cop probably never expected this guy to double egg him and he panicked and shot him. The guy, he didn't get any trouble either. But that's, that's the, that's the reality is, Hey, man, you can, you know, a grappling match can turn deadly very quickly. The moment a weapon comes out or the moment you get hyper focused on that one guy that you're fighting, which is a natural, you know, you have to combat your natural instincts. Because when you're, when you're interlocked with somebody in close range, that's your reality. All that's going on, but you've got to, you know, kind of have eyes in the back of your head. That takes training. And that's, that's, that can only be taught through experience, through actually doing it. And, you know, that, that to me is the difference. But you at the same time, there's a lot of people in the self-defense realm who, you know, maybe they do Krav Maga, not knocking Krav Maga. It's, you know, every part is great. But they have an art that deals with, you know, they do the guns, the knives, you know, multiple opponents. But you have to look at the training method. And even when you get stuck in that, you know, a good MMA fighter with just a basic jab cross hook versus the guy who knows neck breaking and all this other stuff. He's going to win because he has a better base. He has more flight time of actually sparring, being in the ring pressure. He's in shape. He's taken punches. And so if the guy who spends his life doing technique, but breaking bones all the time, but doesn't actually have a realistic framework of which to work that off of, he's going to lose. So it's, it's not so much the art. It's the training method. Yeah. And actually what I really want to know, because I always like hearing you talk about it is, man, what is the difference of that mentality? Like, even if you take us through like a story of, man, where shit gets crazy, where you panic. I mean, it is one of those true moments of terror that you have in a street fight where you don't know what's what's happening. What is the difference? Because MMA sparring, you might feel like you're going to lose, but you know, you can tap or there's not that same life or death feeling. And if you could explain that difference, I think people would get it. Well, it's, you know, a lot of my last talk, if you guys haven't seen it. I talk a bit about this is turning on the killer instinct and turning it off. And that basically it's going from zero to 100 back down to zero. And a lot of that, you will, it will help you control your emotions a little bit. There's always going to be some sort of fear. And there's always, you know, especially in the midst of chaos when things just get worse and worse or you get punched and you didn't see which side the punch came from. You can still train and still maintain your reactions to your emotions. You won't be able to control your emotions all the time. But the difference really is we're trying to how to explain this is is your training should kick kick in. And so the moment let's say I'm in a fight one on one and out of my periphery, I see somebody rush in from the side. I have to switch my mindset and engage with both people. I have to be able to, you know, even I may want to kill this guy right in front of me. But the moment I see something out of the side of my eye, I have to disengage and drop everything. And that can only come through training. If I, you know, if I'm really nervous before the fight and the moment the fight happens, I have to have sufficient training to where my reactions come in. So it's really it's not even something you think about something you actually have to train. And we do that through putting ourselves through different scenarios, different scenarios to where you're just flowing from one thing to another. Where you're grappling with somebody. All of a sudden somebody throws in a knife, one person grabs a knife that changed the dynamics. And depending on where you are, you're on the bottom on the top and your opponent grabs a knife or you grab the knife, you have to switch into the appropriate attack or defense mode. You know, two on one defense is much different than a one on one defense versus three on one defense versus a knife defense. And it's really just having the mindset to recognize what's happening and equate that to reality as much as you can. In other words, you know, you're not going to try to do some fancy disarm the moment you see a blade comes out. Hopefully you're going to run because it's, you know, I don't care what you know how fast you are. It only takes one stab at the knife, one slice of the knife, you're dead. And, you know, it's just that's that's the the moment I'll share a story. You asked me about a story. We actually had something happen this weekend. And I was out with CJ, who, you know, two other guys and all of us train. So CJ's primarily trains jujitsu or other buddy. He's had a couple of cage matches, but he's probably primarily jujitsu. And then the other guy besides me, I think he just started training jujitsu. So basically you have four guys, three of them trained jujitsu. I trained jujitsu, but I'm a street fighter. So you're actually a first degree black belt in Brazil. Yeah. So that's, that's saying something. Yeah. I mean, so we're, you know, but at the same time, I, you know, I think Trent with his cage fights, he probably has some stand up. I don't know. I don't, I've never seen the fight. So I can't really say. Right. But, you know, relatively speaking, you've got four guys who can, who can hold their own. Right. Um, we were just standing in the corner of the bar and some guys started yelling at CJ. Just, he was, he was a big talker. I'm sure you got to pick on the short guy. Yeah. CJ is a shorter, but stocky built in. Let me tell you. Stocky. Yeah. Short stocky Australian. And if you get him on the ground, he'll. Yeah. Yeah. He's good. And, uh, so anyway, so this guy, you know, he took his hand. He was mad about something. And so, but he kept going on and on. So at first I thought he was, he was kidding. But then I realized he's serious. So the moment I realized that I, uh, tried to, uh, I walked across the room to get an angle on this guy because I didn't want him to attack CJ. And now this is something, you know, if you ever, ever do my courses is something I teach you. You always watch for this. Not the guy talking shit. It's the guy walking around behind. That's the guy you got to watch out for. Well, knowing that I'm the guy you got to watch out for. And I'm very good at getting an angle on people. Um, and so I went across the room, but this guy watched me the entire time. And I was getting people in between me and, and, and that line of sight. And he had my line of sight the whole time. So I'm like, well, something's not right here. This guy is a little too cognizant of what's happening. So I, I angled a little more. I got more distance. Um, but I was just like, if he was going to rush CJ, I was going to rush him. And so at the next point, uh, Trent came over to me and, uh, and he watched both of us. So I told Trent, I said, something's not right here. This guy is too aware of us. And he knows other people in the bar. I said, this is, we're, we're basically a step behind. We don't know who's friends with who. And so, um, uh, the guy started walking and I was still kind of like, I was leery. I just didn't feel right. And then that guy started talking that he was going to kill the smallest guy of us and that, which wasn't CJ. It was actually the other guy with us. So I just told them, I said, look, something's not right. Get your friend. Let's get out of here. Because this guy is way, he's done this too many times. So we went out the back door. Somebody tried to stop us. We, we shoved him aside. And, you know, that's it from there. We, we actually had to wait and see. I said, look, if this guy, you know, if he's as good as I think he is, he's done this before, you know, he'll try to follow us outside. Let's make sure we're not fouled and we went to another bar. Now here's the thing is usually in that situation, I'm the only one that knows what's going on. And if I, if I don't feel comfortable about something, you know, I'm going to have to go educate these guys like, look, we got to get out of here. Or, you know, or maybe one of them is going to go, no, that guy said shit to me and you have to stick around out of trying to want to save your friend, even though they're putting themselves in a really bad situation. Fortunately, it didn't happen in this case. And what, what I found out was after when I was initially walking, trying to get a beat on the guy, he was talking to somebody and he'd lift up his shirt. He had two knives, two knives, which I had a knife and so did Trent. But he, he would, he probably what would have happened is he would have went towards CJ, but because he was aware of me and I had too much ground to cover, I very easily could have got stabbed. And, but, you know, seeing situations and like knowing that this guy was too aware of where I was, you know, our best bet was to flee. We got out of there. So it wasn't a fight, but that's the difference between what would have happened with an MMA fighter or somebody who wasn't aware of that and they just grab, went and rushed, grabbed the guy, went to punch him. They get in a punching match, but on the third shot, the guy already has his blade in his hand. You know, and it's... Who gives a shit if you have a knife? I mean, like getting in a knife fight is just, I can't believe you had a knife on you. You almost never... Well, don't say never. That's what you say. No man, but I've, I've thought about that because when I would carry around a knife, I'm like, Jesus Christ, man. If I draw this, it's, it's on a whole different level of fight. It's on a whole different level. And then if I get disarmed, I'm fucked. You know, if he has a knife, then it's, it's just so crazy to... And I actually stopped carrying him around because it was just like a, it built an odd mentality within me that I did not... Yeah, you know, a Vunak won't carry a knife because even Dan Insano, he says the art will come out if I get attacked. So I won't carry a knife because it's going to, it's going to be there. Me on the other hand, I'll, you know, I'd rather have it than not have it. I've been in so many situations. It's kind of like I attract trouble even at this age. Really? Yeah, I'd rather have it. But that, well, just this way, I mean, just being there, you know, people say, why do you train? Well, we were, you know, I didn't do anything. I don't even think CJ did anything. He just got the attention of some asshole who happened to have dual knives and probably used them before, you know? And I don't, I don't know how many other people he had there with him, but it was, he was definitely setting something up. And I don't know if I would have been there. You know, luckily everybody, we're all on point on the same page. We went out the back and, you know, we made sure we weren't followed. And that's the other thing is being, awareness is the biggest thing. Like if you know what people are going to do, people who are true criminals, you know, this guy, if he was 100%, you know, D-Bag, he wouldn't have said anything. He would have just attacked one of us. You know, and probably if he was a real criminal, he would have just stabbed one of us or all of us, you know, without saying anything. But you've got to watch when shit hits a fan, people love to stick around and talk and, oh, you said this, I did this. You know, your best bet is to get out of there. This guy could have, you know, just followed us from a distance, waited for us as we were in the other bar, waited, followed us till we went to our car hours later and then stabbed one of us, you know, just because there's people out there that do that. And so you've got to think, you know, what can really happen in this situation and, you know, what's worth it? Is it worth it to take this guy out? Because afterwards we were, you know, I was like, well, we would fuck that guy up. You know, he was messing with what the reality is. Hey, maybe we would have got the short end of the stick on that one or, you know, I stabbed him, he stabbed me. We both died. He dies. I'm in jail. I mean, you know, for what? Yeah, no, man. And you actually have a story about a buddy of yours who got in a fight at a club and they basically beat the dudes down, but he got stabbed in the process and didn't know it. And then like, you know, two minutes later just passes out. Yeah, well, they didn't beat him down until after the guy just walked up to him and stuck him in the chest and he didn't even know if he was cut. Yeah. And then they jumped on and beat the guy down, but that's the thing. Knife fights, like, you don't duel with a guy. It's either it's your, people will attack you, you know, preemptively with it and you don't even know it's there or it comes out in the middle of the fight. Rarely does somebody square off with you and you both are dueling in the middle of the fight, but we train that way. We do that for a specific reason. That's the other part of, you know, training for reality is there are certain things that you can certain training methods that you can train in. I train all the time in jiu-jitsu, but I am not going to go to the ground in a bar fight if I can hand, you know, help it, but I'm not going to negate my jiu-jitsu training because if I do get in a fight and I get thrown on the ground, I better know what I'm doing. Same thing with knives with two on one. You have to put yourself in those situations, but you also don't want to discard something because you have a new revelation like, oh, you know, I've been in 50 fights and I've never went to the ground or I went to the ground 50 times and I beat the guy 50 times, so all you do is ground fighting and you discard your stand up or vice versa, you discard something. You have to be very careful about, you know, and this philosophy holds true for everything is when you use reality as your feedback mechanism. In other words, you're looking at how shit really goes down in the street fight. You should be doing that with your business. You know, how are people really responding to my sales letter, my emails? Really, I mean, in reality, if you can track it, you need to look at it and then you adapt your method to that and constantly change it. Otherwise, you're going to get stuck in theory or you're going to get stuck in, you know, and this is every day as a martial artist is a day to basically discover your own ignorance. What's the cause of your own ignorance? And that's the process of, even within the microcosm of jutsu, what's the reason that you're always getting armlocked? You know, why am I always getting armlocked? It's your own fault and it's your own technique or something that you're doing that's letting your opponent capitalize on it. Sure, your opponent might be better, but ultimately it's your fault. And so if you take that mentality and extrapolate it out into your life, it's what you're discovering the cause of your own bullshit that's all caught up in it. And so if we can say, okay, what's really working though? And you're not just saying, well, I wonder what works or I've seen it work. You have to actually see it and test it in reality. Then you're going to start having successes. That's the difference. You have to really, you know, oh, I could disarm a guy with a knife. Really, have you ever tried it? Have you ever trained it? Give a knife to somebody who doesn't know where you can get it away from. Chances are it's going to be, you're going to have a real hard time. Now maybe if he's a librarian and you're strong, like Lunak always says, you take the guy out. No, get somebody who's strong, athletic. Give him a training knife and say, attack me. I'm going to take that away from you. That shit ain't going to happen. There's very low probability. I'll tell you, I have a big one on my arm and BBs or whatever you call them from the airsoft times. But, you know, you talk about realities, the feedback loop, and you talk about if somebody's caught up in their own bullshit and for you with martial arts, and this happens with any expert that you talk to, especially we'll interview in a lot of the 21 convention guys, is there's such a high level, you know, a fitness, a diet, a philosophy. It all comes back to the same thing. For me, a lot of that has to do with seduction and connection and all that sort of stuff. But when you express yourself in any way, and I think martial arts forces you to do that, fighting forces you to do that, it's an expression, you get what works and what doesn't. And there's that feedback loop of reality. I can tell you this right now, a lot of people like to know about fighting and a lot of people who are watching this or listening to it on iTunes or Stitcher are basically like, man, I improve my life, man. How can I use this to improve my life? And the reality of a feedback, reality being the feedback loop, should I say it right, that how does that sift out the bullshit in your life? Or how does that sift out, like let's say a dude with an emotional problem, maybe that you know from martial arts or from hypnosis or NLP and all that sort of stuff, but how does that work and when does he get started in his life? The very first thing is most guys who do have emotional problems or what is their locus of control? Like are they at cause or are they at effect? That's the first thing in any fucking problem as far as I'm concerned is if you're at effect, if it's other people in the world that shit's just happening to me, you have to change that. You have to become at cause for everything. And if you can do that and that's not the ultimate truth I don't control gravity, I don't control the sun, I don't control what other people think about me, but if I can keep my outlook as I'm the cause of this, I am at cause, how am I affecting what's happening out there? And if I can change what I'm doing, it's going to change your outer world, right? So if you kind of look at just a piece of clay out there and you're yelling at the piece of clay, you know, stop being a piece of clay, why are you doing this to me? Instead you reach out and you turn that piece of clay, you've affected that clay. You're now at cause. You have to look at your world that way and say, look, even if shit is happening to you, you have to look at it and say, how am I causing this? I'm not saying you're causing it. What I'm saying is that's going to get you out of being at the effect of the problem and get you to be proactive. Right. When I get on a bar, hey, good job. You beat a black belt, good job, fantastic. That wasn't you beating me. That was me beating me. I'm not going to say that and copy. I'll give people equities. People are better than me. But in the back of my mind, for me to progress and get better and to learn, I have to go, what is the cause of my own ignorance that's going to happen? Or that's affecting us? Yeah, so this is interesting because this gets into this whole concept of blame and where I see us now big time as a culture, it's such a bummer with the internet and so much communication. The internet is great because there's so much information, like podcasts like these or the 21th Convention itself. But it also builds us this detachment like people can talk shit more, people are more pointing the finger about stuff. Blame and that concept in our lifestyles, I hear you basically saying you can't get involved with that. And I had a discussion with you previously. We've obviously talked a lot. But I remember you saying this. You said, I'm not going to go so far to say that a woman getting beaten by her husband is attracting that. But even in a situation like that, now these are my words talking, is I'd say that there is a responsibility. Don't get me wrong, there's victimization. You get shit done to you, that's fucked. But your only route out of that is taking responsibility and owning what you have. And I'll tell you this from like, let's say at a view standpoint or being in an attack or you really had no power over the situation. If you're holding on to that and it's affecting your life, whatever that is. You got bullied, you got your ass kicked, you got your money, your yada, yada, yada. And that affects you to this day. That's in your mind. Your life has changed because of it. Then you are responsible for that. And I forget where our discussion went last time with this, but when that comes to you make your own reality, how does that fit into your philosophy of martial arts and life and all this other stuff? Because I know you have a lot to say about it. It does. You know, I really live by the absorb what is useful, reject what is useless add specifically what is your own. The JKD philosophy, that's part of it. And I don't want to totally say that you can't blame others because sometimes in order to let go, you have to say, you know what, no, they were assholes. It was their fault. And what you just said is, yeah, if you continue to hold on to that waterfall, and that's the same thing of you don't control your emotions, but you control your responses to your emotions. And so, you know, as before a fight, you know, fear starts to take hold of you, you know, as it goes your response to it, you can use your breathing other things to dissipate it and over time it will shorten and shorten. It doesn't mean you won't have that startle reflex, but your reaction after that startle reflex is going to be diminished. So for me at the same time, I want to always maintain because to me, I'm a true seeker. That's my ultimate martial arts a lot of martial arts are gotten into martial arts because they have some crazy path the path of Kane from Kung Fu but ultimately I want to know the way of things and that means everything. I want to be able to pick out and that is the truth. The way of everything, I want to understand it and if I can understand it, then I can change and be one with it. So even though I'm saying that I'm at cause and it's my fault, it's really my fault for not seeing the truth as the way things are. So I'm uncovering my own ignorance and that I do feel you know, it's not so bold as saying well, I'm creating this even though sometimes I do that. It's really I have to look at it from that perspective in order to look at it from a dip to get out of my own bullshit. Then I can say, okay you know, first a punch was a punch then it became something more and then at the end it was a punch. It's this revolution of where at first you're at cause, then you have this great revelation and you realize that there's something bigger than you but what is that bigger thing and I have to change in order to understand that. And so then I come back to the beginning where I'm at cause but only as far as how do I fit in with the bigger picture. And it's this constant ebb of flow but you're using reality as to when you come to a point are you right, are you wrong or is that you know and that can change but it's and truth is change. Everything's changing. So yeah, your opinion of what's happening can change along with it but it's really how well are you flowing with what is and it's your understanding of that and that means everything. I believe that expression, how you express it, I've told you this a bunch of times but how you do anything is how you do everything. So how you express yourself through tying your shoe can be related to how you express yourself when you throw a punch can be related to how you express yourself when you're talking to other people and how you're talking on the internet. Everything because it's to be is to be related to. So ultimately it's this weird crazy thing that we call life what areas are working for you and what are not and if something is not what's your part in that? What are you having to create that? Because when things flow, when you get in the zone it's a whole other level and to me it's like I want to be in that zone more often and in as many aspects of my life as I can financially physically, romantically you know, communicatively everything. I want to be able to be in the flow with what is. I don't want to have fights. But see it's a weird dichotomy because you're getting into that flow, you're trying to gain peace through fighting. So you're not actually fighting things, you're recognizing what's happening and you're flowing with it. It's that flow psychology really to me. Yeah, no man, I mean I'm sorry to kind of interrupt you there but I just did an interview with Greg Swan who you guys should check out that podcast because there's a lot and that guy talks a lot but he's talking about empathy. His big trip right now is how empathy is this exchange. It's not just doing a good action, it's the feeling and it could be bad or good. So that means when you put yourself out there and you really put you out there let's say you get a negative feedback, a dog growls that's what he kept bringing up or somebody punches you or gets mad and then you react to it and you're in real time in that moment then that's truly what he was saying empathy is and of course get his book I could be totally flubbing the thing but that's what I got from it but that's what I feel seduction is and that's what I feel fighting is, that's what I feel everything is that we interact with. That being said when you were talking it really kind of flagged in my head where was the last time that you saw this type of interaction with the world, universe, could be fighting, relationships, life, business where did you learn and get into that feedback loop of progression for yourself like what was the last break or revelation for you? Where I learned it you know I think Vunak was a big influence and a lot of people don't know that guy is a genius you know he's a mad genius but he's a genius. So who is Paul Vunak? Yeah so he's a pretty famous martial artist he was a top student under Dan Anasano and when he was kind of young he started to like he really wanted to learn how to fight so if he was testing everything out he got to a pretty high level of street fighting proficiency and he had a big impact on me as basically integrating the JKD philosophy obviously Bruce Lee you know read his writings the man was the genius he wasn't just a genius he was the genius he was a pioneer but his understanding of how to not only train a martial artist but to approach understanding the truth is really top notch but for me when I really I've experienced it at different times in my life and I will say it as a direct result of training in other words when you and a lot of martial artists will have this experience where they kind of you are in the total moments like the flow psychology read that book flow guys like Czechoslovakia whatever that's a good book and it explains how you're totally 100% in the moment the past and the future does not exist and you are it's like you're aware of what's going to happen before it happens but only because you're flowing so well with what is and on a physical level I experienced this my junior my senior year playing football and I was training a lot and I directly equate this to training because what happens when you're doing the martial arts you're creating a lot of different connections in your brain and you're using your body in many different ways but you're freeing your mind basically because you're using all these different different movements so and what I think is you're you're getting more neuro pathways in your brain that you wouldn't have and then this is proven like they give people older people when they do a lot of different physical games and balance and agility and things like that that they maintain their cognitive processes so one could argue it's a higher level of cognitive processes you know which to me comes and goes throughout different periods of my life but when you're in that moment for example when this first happened to me I was my junior senior in football I got a clear image of where the quarterback was going to throw the ball before the ball was snapped and as it was snapped I started running there completely cutting off and I was a safety and I went just behind our line because I knew he was going to throw it on the slide now subconsciously I may have read his body language or whatever you know you don't have to get us a third but our minds can process a shit ton of information and when I had that hit that ball you know I intercepted it and I just I ran but I and my body was running faster than I had ever had before I was I was in the moment going but I was also an observer to where I was like holy shit I've never run this fast and and so there was like it was a it was like you're immersed in the experience so much that there's a part of you that's observing at the same time and and so you get a lot of insight during that I've had I've talked with you know guru and asylum some other people have had these experiences they just call it being in the flow but it's really whatever's happening physiologically neurologically I would say you are tapping into also the intelligence of the universe but like there is something that you know everything's moving together and you're you're not only are you part of that but you know it's happening and why it's happening and how it's going to happen in the next moment and you're almost ahead of the game and I would love to have that all the time so you know it's like every question you ever would you know if you're in that state and you had a question it would be answered instantly see this is this is like the cool shit that I love that you bring to the table about this like I said I did that interview with Greg you know if I talk to Mark Atobre or Keith Norris Skyler Tanner and any of these other guys you know they all talk about that moment is Greg calls it splendor you know that state of mind you get in but I'm just gonna I'm gonna jump in here for a second because you said a lot of stuff that I think really mean something the state that we need to be in is in that flow state whatever that is whatever you're passionate about where you get lost in it and not enough people do that with their life but then what you're talking about of being able to read somebody and have it mean everything because how you do one thing is how you do everything which used to you know fucking piss me off when people say that it'd be like so I got a traffic ticket and like how does that affect you know I'm clearly let's say doing good at this move in jujitsu or I'm clearly doing good at whatever like it doesn't make any sense but when I actually took a magnifying glass to that traffic ticket in something a point where it made me like analyze myself like fuck why am I getting pissed off why am I still mad in fact I was I was going over this with a resentment with somebody the other day I was like man I'm still pissed off this guy can't believe it like it's been six years and I'm still angry like what the fuck and my buddy Dave was like hey man write about it and explore it and I'm like ah it's not gonna but somehow when I do that I can look at the little pieces in some of those you know there's no real bad or good but some of those are some great qualities of me you know that might even be hidden in that resentment or whatever and I want to get rid of that or I want to let that ease but that could be in the like my accomplishment of something else you know whatever other thing and if I look at those things and allow myself to process it when I get in that state of flow you know when I get in that state of mindset of where I have you know passion running me or whatever it is you know it could be writing or martial arts or biking or playing music sex sex and that's a I think that's a big metaphor for it everything makes sense in a different way and I can see that if I have not analyzed myself or if I have refused to see reality because I'm caught up in whatever you know blame or whatever something outside of myself it doesn't even have to be that you know it could be grandiosity I now hack out a huge portion of that flow it's just like what you're talking about if you get an arm barred you have to see every detail of that but ultimately it's you beating yourself you know I think that's that's important you know if people get involved in their passions they can really do a lot with it I didn't mean to hijack your shit but anyway oh I am yeah I mean I think you know the other thing too that I you know with JKD really the truth exists outside of all set patterns and if it's in a system or it's a set pattern it's not the truth it may contain a picture of the truth and you can discover the truth through that I believe but it's not the ultimate truth the truth cannot be confined right and so all systems therefore are not the truth it's a system of language a system of seduction a system of martial arts and so that's why I always say I want to discover the truth and so when I approach different martial arts I look at what's effective in it absorb what is useful reject what is useless and it may not be about the art but it's about what doesn't work for you and then adding specifically what is your own because we do add something to what's out there and everything we do you cannot not communicate even if you're sitting there nodding your head you're communicating you're not doing anything you're still communicating and so whether we like it or not we cannot not be a part of the overall truth because to not be a part of it is to be a systemized compartmentalized piece of it right so in other words yes we are a part of the truth but I think also you know some analogies that I use are like I think my outer world is a direct reflection of what's going on with me and that if you allow it smart enough to pick up the cues everybody and everything every instance around you will echo something that's going on with you even if it's just the blot test whatever the Rorschach test whatever those where they the psychiatrist gives you this and what do you see in this you know even if I'm adding something subconsciously to it there is a reflection and especially if you're immersed in a passion or something you're in that moment where the feedback comes instantly that's the difference most of the time we're in Lolliland and it's coming back to us but we're not picking it up and that's one thing society is training us to be so left brain and so focused here we're losing sight of that big picture we're constantly in the future with our head or a step behind with our text message and it's training us to not to get out of the present moment which is really unfortunate because to be honest that's where this flow state is this is where it's at you still have to have your future projection you still have to learn from your past but to be totally present here now that's a difficult thing to do and the further we get away from it the further we get away from truth and that is the truth so you know that's one of the reasons I wanted to do this convention because we need this we're systematically as men being emasculated and being trained not to be that not to be that expression and then it's going to be changing to just this automated fucking corporate do-getter who always follows the rules and just obeys authority and that's and a bigger thing it's where are we compartmentalizing ourselves to what is this out here that we don't want to look at you know what aspect of yourself are you cutting yourself off from so this is a movement that's happening and we have a counter movement which is society and I'm not saying this is an anarchist thing but I'm saying more movements where people are like striving like they can feel something's not right you know you just feel that man I want more I want to do more I want to express more and sit in a cubicle all day and do this I don't want to have to leave my family for eight to twelve hours a day just to put food on the table something's not right about this system and part of that is because we're getting away from this place where we have tremendous power I mean we at we when you're in that state I don't give fuck what kind of drug you're on that's the best drug and we get glimpses of it sometimes when we do drugs right but when you're in it it's like it's it blows your your perceptual blinders off and it's really you know that to me is the biggest thing like martial arts does that for me when I train when I get to my training man because you have to be in the present that's the thing with training for real violence you're using the feedback you went through the training you're in the present moment otherwise you get immediate feedback with a punch of the face so it's you have to constantly train yourself to be here and that's that's why it's it's one of the best methods do you can do that through sports and through other things as well and I think ultimately that understanding of the way will transfer over into all all areas of your life you know yeah no man you brought up actually a lot of good stuff how I mean I think we're living in captivity I mean it's so it's so difficult like when you study the sex habits of rats they're much different in the wild than they are in captivity or monkeys chimpanzees and I think for humans too we were never meant to be in this environment so that being said what's the dysfunction and what is the function you know what is that for you how do you live in the best possible expression of you your independence who you are your expression that's that I mean that's the battle is really yeah I've been flow because you can't you're inundated with it constantly and so the more time and personally the more time I spend on the computer looking at my phone staring at the TV you know I can feel it it makes me my wife yells at me she's like you're always on like a damn phone and I'm sure everybody else is but it does something to your mind and you know I don't think you know there's this whole move to move in harmony with machines and that's not it it's not harmony it's harmony with nature and I'm not I don't believe in gold man made global warming but it's being in nature and being out in the world present being amongst other people not staring at them through this fucking screen even though this is helpful and and you know and this can open doors and we can reach way more people than we possibly could it's like the internet that's why they want to shut down because now we have this free flow of information and it will always find a way to use it against itself and then you have the opposite push of we gotta get back in this box we gotta let's even design houses so they're in a box and you know let's make them go straight to where sitting in a box and stare at a box you know and it's all metaphorical to me it's your box and you know the box is ultimately your mind but we have this metaphor of that box all around us all the time constantly reminding us that get back in the box get back in the box but the truth exists outside the box it can exist in the box too don't get me wrong you can find the truth through a system but you have to look outside every now and then to know what the truth looks like you know what I mean and so that's the thing you don't want to discard everything don't discard technology but we as first of all men and then human beings have to understand what's happening we are life is much different from when we were kids even with my nephews those guys are playing video games with them too but they are outside they are interacting with other kids the way they used to they still get their time in the playground but it's not like it used to be so where are we going as a society and I think people can feel that more and more and we have to be able to understand where our bullshit is basically where are we in the box because everybody is in the box totally I mean where is the function where is the dysfunction even what used to be 2 generations ago 3 generations ago 4, 5, 6 was still a part of this completely unnatural way of living and so our influences are just so bizarre one thing that I really get from where mainly seduction has been like the template window for me is that what we actually say at least in the systems that I come up with and all that sort of stuff is that there is nature and nature can't be touched that's the reality that's the truth nature does not need science but we man need science to understand nature and so then there is culture and that's like all of us influencing this mad way we need to have it I think we're genetically predispositioned to want to be a part of people and connect and all that sort of stuff and then there's you the individual and in order to get the truth in nature you have to explore yourself use culture as the feedback loop and then you can know what friendship really is what sex really is what all these other different things and I can make the same metaphor for martial arts there is the truth of what is happening in nature in the body there is the mechanics and all those things happening in gravity and physics that doesn't need me to define it but we need to and then there is this culture of let's say jiu jitsu or a culture of a certain group that you might be sparring with and then you go to another group and let's say you kick ass in your group but in that new group your game plan is thrown off you're hitting the face and I think this is important about those between MMA and real fighting is because when something happens that you've never experienced or you see blood or you you know you get hit in a way that just you can't think or when you get a concussion I mean you stuff changes in your body that you can't control if you're not used to that and you can't deal with that you're done you know and the only way to search for the truth in that I believe is to start with the individual and start moving that out you know it's like we think we know better you know we're so obsessed with information yet we're so unwilling to experience and information is great I love it I love learning and you know this is a funny thing with me is same as me you know Maria will be like yelling at me about it because I'll be on the computer for like after this man I'll probably be on forever you know I mean there's not a day that goes by that it's not 10 hours working on this stuff and hey I enjoy life then I do the bio hack thing and this is actually some that have a pet peeve towards I do the bio hack thing of like okay I'm gonna work out for two minutes gonna bust ass for two minutes because the body and this and that and the science says and yada yada yada and I'm not living life you see my values are that society has said that work is more important than going out and experiencing or that doing this or having some status or it's like man you know Steve Maeda blowing up or or whatever the different companies that I'm involved in going you know rather than this moment and so my value is not working out my value is not family my value is not nature or dogs my value has now become working and being a part of this thing and being successful in it and then hacking my way to get the little you know the badge of family life and that's that's not how we should be living you know you know I think everybody and I was lucky to be around you know the martial arts scene and actually have you know Vunak Vunak was another pioneer in that he he discovered the Gracie's he was one of the very first people to discover the Gracie's and so he was training with voice and Hickson and everybody in their garage back when nobody knew who they were because he was a real fighter one of the students said hey you gotta go check these guys out and but he had always just so I got my earliest exposure to Hickson then and Hickson is he asked any Brazilian back in the day and even today they just say he's on another level not just with skill but his thinking and I think everybody could do themselves a favor and look at the last interview he just did with Joe Rogan he you know but really the guy you know he's much more like back in the day I think he was he you could see his philosophy as he lived it because he was such a man but he had this I would say that there's nobody on the planet that thinks like this guy or at least back then and so but the insight that he said if you really listen to that interview is he does not have a set schedule during his day he doesn't know what he's gonna do tomorrow you know and that's not to say he doesn't have seminar scheduled and things like that there are things he has scheduled but ultimately he listens to himself and his body if he feels like he needs to stretch he stretches if he's hungry he needs to eat good food he needs to eat good food if he feels like he's a little low down he's gonna go surf and recharge and he's constantly looking and you know basically feeling himself and as you know I dare say his soul listening that inner voice to guide him to what he's to do next and that is so different so he may spend eight hours a day on the mat or he may spend eight hours a day surfing or he may just go in the park and stretch and then have a juice and go converse with friends you know he doesn't have and you know I know he's not rolling with money and all this stuff but he that has never been his focus I know enough to say that I can't say I know Hickson very well but from what I've observed and knowing his students and talking over the years and being involved in that community he's always had this philosophy and I think people can really learn from that how many of us really don't have a schedule tomorrow fuck I know what I've got to do you know I know what I have to do I'm beholden to the work I have to do to bring in money but so how do I change that focus so I can go out if I want to go train tomorrow for 12 hours I should be able to do that you know what's stopping me well repercussions of not having a paycheck and doing all these things are stopping me and then I ask myself would that stop Hickson I think Hickson would be like I think today I'm going to train okay I think no today I'll spend on the beach like whoa that is you know but he's not just doing that out of aloofness or ego he is doing that because he asks himself what do I need today to grow not just as a person like my knees or what do I feel like doing but he's saying what direction do I need to go to and he sits and listens and that's the thing see that's what's happening when we have a saying is that the messenger never sleeps until the message is delivered so if you and that's what we're feeling is we're being our inner mess messenger is saying dude no no take some time for yourself or do this do you know relax or enjoy this or you have an opportunity over here you know and instead of being at the screen maybe you need to get up and go in that coffee shop and meet that girl or whatever it is and we have this inner knowing that we're still yelling at us but we're stuck and so internally we feel this struggle and you know and I'll dare say that society is engineered to keep us from that inner voice to keep us away from really discovering that now we have the answers we can figure a way to be one with what is and go you know and still have it work out for us but we have to really we have to really discover where we're at in that box and you can only do that by getting you know whether you're pushing things pulling things and you know whether it's in business or talking or being in the moment present and you know it's not to say you won't create something but you have to really use that reality as your feedback really get out there and really like is this working is this you know and don't discount how you feel inside either it's not just out there it's out there and in here when you get those two to line up that's when you get the flow it's like suddenly it's like boom all the answers you know and you'll kick yourself for not seeing it before I really think like it's in that guy who lives it and that's the key he's a modern day master and not just because he's a martial artist but because of that I think and man we very few people do that you had actually said that Vunak had said that I mean and this is Vunak who I mean you didn't say this but Vunak trained the Navy SEALs he trained SEAL Team 6 I mean he is like one of the most revolutionary guys in fighting dynamics and you had said that he believed that Hickson was one of the greatest guys ever you know in all martial arts and just the whole mentality but I think you know what's interesting that you talk about is like you know I don't know Hickson you know any of the Gracie's or any of that stuff but his mentality is so much different than his brothers you know and totally different and you know what was interesting about him in that sort of liberation that he had that liberation that he had and I think this is important to say you know to be able to do what you want to be able to express he also knew what expression was you know he also he got to that point of passion and that passion defined him in not the carelessness you know when you look at a baby you know my son is 8 weeks old and he wants to do stuff you know he's looking at stuff and his body can't and you know he wants to follow things and you know he's sitting in this this little chair the little Mamoru thing and he's looking and I'm just like man he's looking at us in the kitchen talking everything his mind is set on that and he wants to do that and then when he gets in the kitchen he'll be like what the hell is this what was the big deal but it'll be something and it will be that sort of propulsion of self into the world and to interact with it and that is the true I believe joy of humanity the greatest gift that you know life has to offer you know that's one of the things that I always talk about with my personal philosophies you know just life is meant to express itself and if you don't then somehow something's going to be off it doesn't matter if you get a good result it'll be off and we're doing that with our lives you know that's what man has become a man has become no longer Ray Romano which sucked as you know not that he's a personal bad dude but you know that show and just the whole idea of this kind of push over guy that just kind of goes through life or whatever but now it's something that man has become this machine of rules of doing the right thing saying the right thing and man fuck all that shit you know if I can't go out this is something that bothers me about the seduction scene is that if I can't go out and just be myself then I'm losing it if I have to be alpha if I have to be a presence if I have to be an archetype if I have to be a certain set of rules that a man has to play by or to seduction is like I have a hard dick and I want to put it somewhere how can I learn the language that allows me to do that if I lose touch with that then I'm losing touch with God the greatest thing that the thing which is going to put us in touch with the flow if I lose touch with and I'll tell you this because it's funny because I always talk to you I'm like man I never get in fights my whole thing is if somebody wants to talk shit to you they're not going to fucking fight man if somebody wants to talk shit and if you don't want to fight it takes two to tango if you don't want to fight nobody's going to pick on you in that way or they'd really have to try there needs to be a fight back even if they punch you and you just do nothing and are like well hey man but it's pretty hard to maintain that state but anyway this dude and I remembered the second one just now if we didn't know that right it wasn't a big deal I mean Jesus Christ like who gets mad about that and why but this dude was real small and that's why he was real small like real short like five five or something and that I'll tell you are yeah I'm five actually technically we went to the Texas Institute of Fitness or yeah whatever one of those places but it's awesome you can actually get the DEXA scan all that sort of shit I'm five seven and three quarters there you go not even five eight but um anyway my son is already taller than me he's eight weeks old so he's huge well you've seen him but anyway the thing is is that this dude the husband guy got real pissed and then his friend got real pissed he started like shoving my friend really hard like really aggressively and I just that was like man he's gonna have him but he's not stopping with this guy and we were at a club so I just put my hand on put my hand on his chest and was like hey man stop he's like what the fuck dude I'm like man shut the fuck up and then his wife starts getting in my face and I'm like really jeez man I was like you're really getting this mad about that and then which got him more mad I'm like dude you're not gonna do shit and then his buddy started getting into it and I was like holy shit man I thought is this worth it because I like switched in that mode of like alright I'm gonna fucking take this dude out like I see the line I see the line with the other guy and you know just split second thought but I just thought is it worth it you know is it worth it I fucking know what it's like to have like my hand broken my knees get fucked up to whatever you know to get a concussion man I'm not thinking right for six months so either for myself or for him and then like we were in the way back of the club so the exit plan would have not been good and it had an upstairs so you'd have to it just would have been fucked up right I mean that but yeah I just was like hey man we're going over here if you want to follow us we're gonna get the bouncers or whatever but fuck off but it was just it was one of those moments where it was just like holy shit I never get in this situation because I always talk myself out of it like wow all right let's go and just to me it was like man hurting somebody on that level was just not the best thing to do now you want to train you want to train for those moments where you don't have an option you know we just that story I talked about you know wasn't worth it we had an option to leave we left I mean we all fired you know we probably could have fared I could probably taking that guy out who knows you know but that's the point yeah you always ask yourself you train for the worse but you train for when you don't have an option and I love the excuse when people say well I've never been in a fight or nobody ever messes with me so I've never been in a violent situation so I don't need to train but I will tell you that 100% of the people who have been murdered have never been murdered before either right so think about that what about what about that 1% that didn't get murdered from the murder yeah right no man but the thing is I've been in fights I wrestled so I just take the guys down and like fuck them up or something and to be honest man I did so much martial arts as a kid none of that did none of it whenever I got a fight when I was in my twenties just wrestled man that's why I remember going back that is making my point earlier that's why experience is important because you have to test it how it's actually going to come out in reality and that doesn't mean you have to bang and go hard you do have to every now and then and put the gear on and stuff but hold on but using that you have to test yourself to really see how you're going to react when it goes down and if you don't know that that's why you have to have reality as your feedback mechanism because you're never going to know how you're going to respond unless you put yourself in that situation before you ever got there that's what practice is for and you don't just like Bruce Lee said to learn how to swim you don't just jump into the deep end you take steps and learn how to paddle and hold your breath and whatever else you need to do first but you still have to at some point test it you can do it safely you can do it I don't bang I'll go hard but I don't sit like a boxer and take brain damage there are ways to do it nowadays and good armor and things like that but it's the philosophy of really I believe there's a mechanism at work in the universe or the world or what have you where when you're done with something or it's getting mad or getting over your ex or whatever it is when you want to take that next step or your next belt level you want to look at like that but really happens seems to happen a lot when you make a statement to yourself like I'm done with this well what's going to happen is when you least expect it your ex is going to call her something's going to happen that's going to trigger you to want to smoke that you did not see coming the left field and it takes you completely off guard that's the test of when and how you'll respond because you never really truly over something unless you can prove it in reality and I think because I've had this experience in many other areas that the mechanism that's at work it's almost like the universe is self aware and it comes back and it tests you but it tests you when you never expect it and that's the true test that's how you're going fog in the corner then you can use it as a blame well I was just triggered I don't smoke now but you're not where you thought you were you know but it comes back around to really see if you're like no I'm done with that and maybe it does once or twice and I'm sure addictions like that I'm sure people get to me it's really a universal law at work just in my experience I was going to say that what you were talking about sounded so similar to kind of like the idea of addiction or you know there's all these different theories about it or whatever but you know one of the things that I have experienced with and especially just witnessing it is that if somebody you know if somebody stops like if they have a major problem with drugs or whatever and if you do you know you're probably better off getting some real help in some areas I think there's a lot of terrible information on addiction which really pisses me off because we know people that have died from it and it fucking sucks that did not have to happen like those things did not have to happen I mean it's crazy one of our training buddies I was training with him a week and a half we beat the crap out of each other and you know I have a scar from it I'm actually quite proud of it but you know he split my eye Jesus and this was that was an interesting moment I should tell you about it but he just split my eye hung out a couple days later some shit happened in his life a few little things and you know he was off to the races with a week and a half he was dead as a teacher that was my student and friend but do I I could either blame myself or I didn't look at the signs or I didn't and you could do the same thing but the reality is we didn't and it happened that's the other side of life is like fuck I should have blocked that punch but I got punched so let's keep going don't stop you gotta keep going and unfortunately we happened the way it did and that's absolutely that keeps me up at night sometimes well I was such good friends with a dude and was especially close to them like right around that time and you know what he'd be saying but when we were fighting in my yard actually dude this pissed me off so bad it pissed me off because it was at that moment of when you get hurt when you get fucked up and when you got punched by him I mean that guy didn't get too many punches in on me but he was strong as a fuck he gave me many concussions and Jesus Christ man this guy so he shoulder bumps me and I was like cool break boom so on the shoulder break I wasn't defending so you're always saying defend I had done so much sparring that was like you know training or helping guys train for their fights or whatever and we were all trying to be nice and that's discovering the cause of your ignorance you get caught in a pattern training creates those patterns and you guys clinch there's a shot and you break your hands are down you can't do that shit in the street we always train to never even when you disengage in drills to always be ready because you train yourself to be ready so even this day when I go slow I'm still watching my opponent you know it's not that you can't do that but you have to be ready you are hardwired to watch out for that shit because the way that you guys train yeah I mean we really did and that's the thing it can be trained you asked earlier like how do you how do you change in your mind when you're scared or then suddenly there's two people or a chair comes out somebody throws something from the crowd or whatever how do you adapt to that and it can be trained like you can train your mind to just adapt but I think it does go counter intuitive to a lot of our natural instincts because even as warfare evolves and fighting evolves people have learned different tactics and it's just anything can happen and so yeah in the wild maybe a tiger could jump out or maybe things were a little more crazy maybe you get a cut and it gets infected but I think it can be trained from the days of fighting the tigers to the days of having two lines go the people going with two lines are going to have pretty good mass attack fighting because you're fighting this guy and this guy and this guy and you can train your instincts to adapt but it comes with training and you have to kind of evolve with it but our natural instinct is the fight or flight it's the one on one because we come out alone as a child we don't form the group cohesion till later and so it's really your natural instinct is to take care of what's in front of you this is like such a crazy thing with fighting and people talk about in jiu-jitsu like get past the panic zone you know get good with jokes and like hold on a little bit longer don't panic get comfortable with that learn to tap and all that sort of shit but you know what from striking and real fighting whenever I've gotten a fight and I'm winning you know which back in my 20's just wrestle the guy down and like fucking spit on him and like grab fish hook his mouth or something and say who's the fucking master and then having to cry steal his shoes and make him get naked and walk home but like you know I'd take the guy down and nobody knew what to do so I just do that I felt fucking good right I felt good and then like when Matt hit me because it was like shoulder bump and then I'm like cool and then I just see this fist like just this stoic look on his face because I can remember he's just like boom and it was just and in that moment you go through a process you get used to it you know when you get rocked because this guy could hit like insane power man and basically it's like oh fuck and then you're like hurt you're in pain you're like shit what's going on and then you're pissed you know it's about two seconds before so if you're in a fight one or two seconds of lag time is not good you know if you're fighting or whatever you are you have some advantage you start fucking somebody up and you're kicking ass you feel good you feel on top of the world and then one thing happens that inflicts pain that you can't avoid you know that your endorphins can't override it's like it's a pretty insane moment and I think that guys who aren't aware of that you can just see a fight switch you know we were talking about that too like if you get in a fight you like arm bar guy and you're in a street fight or you do something like that as soon as you let go they fuck with you you have to hurt them or you have to inflict like defeating pain you know either with head trauma or choke them out or hurt their knee or something you know you can see it too you can actually go on youtube and find some fights you can see when guys in that fight the first time they ever got hit or you know actually some of the girl fights you can see that too they just shut out not everybody does that some people are natural born fighters you know but some people it's such a shock to the system that they freeze and I had my very first fight when I was a young kid I froze a guy hit me like 8, 9, 10 times and I was just at the deer and headlights my whole side of my jaw was bruised for 2 or 3 months by my whole cheek and I just remember freezing my whole body everything was like not just frozen like what the fuck was that and it's that happens that's why the experience has to be you have to know how you're going to react once you get hit and some fighters can go a long time and not know how they're going to react when they're in trouble sometimes guys can have a really good war and come out of a much better fighter because they were tested and they doubted themselves like me I'm pretty well tested and I pretty much know that if I were to go in a cage fight and started to get beat down I would quit I'm not that tough I'm not built like that not all the time I wouldn't fold in a street fighter would still try to survive but some people are just like they can go into those deep waters and that's what makes the fighter they can base their whole game off of that and other guys don't even know how they'll react when they get hit and you've got to know I know how I would do in those situations and because I've proven to myself that A I can get through I've done it before B to me it's not worth it I'm not really like I'm not willing to put myself through that so I'm not really that tough to do it but it's the experience of knowing when guys go into MMA and they get a really good training camp and the guys are beating the shit out of them and their training partners and their training camp is harder than their actual fight it's real hard to finish those guys they may get caught in something but when because there's something that happens it's almost like their whole being gets stronger as a result of getting beat down and this is the truth and that's not the recommended training method all the time but when you have those experiences behind you you keep those to a certain extent if that makes sense and your ass be may save you in five years to know that okay I can get through this I've gone harder or it happens like I used to wrestle on Fridays with Doc Snow he's how big is that and I just use it as a time to call my emotions and wait by my time on the bottom and try not to panic and turn the tits turn the tides and the result of that is that when I go wrestle other people they're not nearly as tough or strong and I just naturally beat them because I'm already used to a higher level you know what I'm saying so it's putting yourself in those situations of experiences that changes you on some level but you don't want to over do it like Matt Hughes in their training camp used to be notorious for hurting guys and and so a lot of guys you know the injury to reward factor it gets too much at some point in my opinion it's almost more important to go there at least once or twice when you know it's going to happen but to get taken in those deep waters then it is to do it all the time you know but if you don't do it if you don't experience it you're never going to know unless you really get to that point of realism and that's the same thing with pickup if you're in the mirror and you're just talking doing your openers because you never go do it you're never going to know how you're going to perform or if it's actually going to work you have to have that feeling the guy who just said I'll fucking do it no you gotta bang man you gotta have sex but that's the that's why it's experience of knowing how you'll react when shit hits the fan and how are you going to know how are you going to react when shit hits a fan unless you've tried to simulate it or been around it or seen it but more importantly been in it man I want to bring this up because we were talking about addiction we were talking about challenging yourself and not challenging too far when you think about it cause I was thinking about this and you explained it you don't want to go too far but human beings are this amazing fucking species in fact all living things and so it's beyond human beings it's been it's because we're a part of this organism life we have this thing that knows how to ride that line of where we're supposed to go but none of us are riding that fucking line you know what I'm saying and that's the thing is the it's the ebb and flow ebb and flow life moves like this it goes in cycles right so you approach it you're back approach it and go back and then when you approach it you get all this this stress and break through that you're on a new level then you gotta go back go back it's so funny because now the men's movement it's like you gotta do this you gotta there's these people and I feel it too you know I'm a man that's in this world or whatever but it's it's basically like you push too hard and we're getting so out of the it's either we're not pushing or pushing too hard but we don't realize that we already have that awesome design in us because we're a part of life you know because bacteria has it too we know how to grow just to the point of maximum level and not go too far and when we get out of the nature of that and we start searching for this definition outside of ourselves or this like icon on TV that's not us you know it was like Greg asked me like Steve but you'll never play in the NBA and I was like but that doesn't mean that I can't enjoy basketball that doesn't mean that I can't have an expression of it doesn't mean that or with women I mean it's like these I mean that's you see it with the I really think pickup will ruin people's lives if they do it if they keep it about approaching man I honestly think if you make your whole life I mean everybody this day and age you know you were never really involved in it but like knows people that were into pickup and everybody knows that guy they got really like into it and just approaches people and he can do it but he has no fucking friends anymore you know there's only friends like these POA dudes and he can't even think outside of this construct of this great awesome very human thing that is sex is like foreign to him and he can only think in this model of you know value and this assumption about humanity made up by like nerdy idiotic people it's really it's fucking sad and so this thing that was supposed to help out with masculinity masculinity is like this now it's part of the distortion and I think we see that with fighting we see that with pushing ourselves it's like I was saying with myself and goals 10 hours in front of the computer what am I serving am I serving my values or am I serving the confines and calling those my values it's just such a thing that I think we all need to take a step back of from and go like hey what is the ideal man and let's figure out what that is what are your ideals and how do you live in them how do you live by them you know what is the real you well not that yeah that's the thing people get stuck in an external definition of that to me it should be as unique as a fingerprint you discover what your ideal man is you know what is your idea of it and then you discover your cause of your own ignorance within that model you know and like you said yeah you can watch the NBA just because you're never going to play in the NBA doesn't mean you can't watch it enjoy it doesn't mean you can't learn from it and learn from other people but ultimately people have to it's a self discovery you have to discover it within yourself like this whole alpha male thing it's just I love it I crack up because that's just one distortion one extreme and that works for some people some people truly are the alpha male you know it's really an alpha male but he's not the you know dick head side of the alpha male that's not it but being you know to me my ideals are not you know not even close to that I mean I want to be just as much in touch with my feminine side as I am with my masculine side I want to be able to have the whole gamut of human expression available to me so I can pick what fits with that particular moment not to say that I'm changing who I am or I'm being false just to get along with you but if that's what's needed in that particular moment I want to have that available to me I don't want to but I want to be the alpha male if that's what's required and I want to let you know sometimes I'll let you be the alpha male just so you can beat yourself or you look like an idiot or you know what it's a car I don't have to be the alpha male I'll just let you do all the talking you beat yourself or whatever and maybe I'll be alpha just to get a reaction out of you and then when you react I attack you know that's in a fighting sense but maybe even a conversation sense and so often I have no problem being the beta that's how I get along with people that's how I get along with a lot of the instructors I get along and gotten along with because I have no dog in the fight you know that hey there are certain areas of their life that I'm not going to I'm learning how not to do but there's other areas that I want to learn how to fight I want to learn this area from you I want to learn how you communicate I want to learn how you're thinking about these things but ultimately it's my experience and I'm using my reality my interaction you're not telling me what the truth is you're telling me what your version of the truth is and then from there I'm trying to discover my own you know and that's that's what people aren't doing they're searching for this just tell me when an ideal man is and I'll be it I have to have you know Jack I have the X number of dollars in the bank I've got to have I could go over 8 20 at least I've got to you know have a car I've got to have a girlfriend or 50 girlfriends whatever it is I have to talk in a certain way walk in a certain way and you know and those things are techniques walking and you know changing your physiology technique that you may or may not need someday and yes money is important you need to you know if you fall into the trap of well I don't need money to be happy good luck having fun standing in the bread line or on the corner maybe that's for you but you still see you know it doesn't mean that that's the end all be all or that's what an ideal man is yet it could be a tool for an ideal man and money is important I see there is value in it me if it's not for you then that's your expression of the ideal man but we have to get to this point where we're you know the problem is people just don't even know how we're to begin looking they don't have any sort of philosophy the biggest killer for any man the biggest thing that will kill any any person any man is a lack of purpose if you don't have some direction or purpose even if it's not your ultimate truth or ultimate purpose they'll fucking kill you I've gone through it I've gone through periods in my life where I was just I had no purpose I didn't know what the fuck to do you know I wasn't hopeless but I have no direction and that to me is it can create apathy but it will kill the soul of a person when you don't have a purpose so just because you're you know just because you're wondering whether you have value or whether what you're doing at you know 10-15 hours on a day you know trying to get your business going and it doesn't feel right or you feel like it's taking away your purpose right that's more important if you didn't that I would say that that is the biggest soul killer on the planet you know and so so but unfortunately we've gotten this counterfeit purpose of where we're we're being told what that with that purpose is or being told what that ideal man is what's politically correct that's external so we have to you know maybe sometimes we use that purpose to make movement but the ultimate goal is you got to find out from yourself but not even just find out decide what your purpose is and you can change it at any moment that's the beauty of it you can my purpose yesterday might not be my purpose today but I set the direction I decide and and maybe you have a grander person but a purpose maybe we all do but it's up to you whether you want to want to accept it and it's just equally as valid as if you go you know I'm not going to do that my purpose is to not do anything that's still you being proactive and going back to that starting point of of being at cause rather than then you know shit just happening or searching for answers outside yourself the cost and the effects you know it's funny because the modern alpha male doesn't fucking know who he is you know it's it's such an image and you're talking about this beta stuff or going along which I've actually seen you do to like influence you know to get yourself in a high leverage social situation you know or professional or learning situation which is which is an interesting thing but everybody so caught up in this like alpha construction whatever man and they can't even hold they can't even look you in the eye you know you know I like it for group dynamics to when you walk into group to know who the alpha is in the group because they influence the other people and so sometimes if you go in and you confront the alpha in whatever way it is that you'll turn everybody off you know so to me it's interesting in how group dynamics and that whole thing works because it is natural it's natural in every group to have a leader sometimes the leaders change depending on who's got the mic or whatever it's interesting but to always be it's almost it's a character trait to be used but not to be identified with and people are identifying with it so they're only identifying with this part of the scale what about the rest of the scale you're just deleting all this other stuff you don't have you don't have behavioral flexibility because you're this all the time and my dad said that you know real men do this this and this you know I have an idea ideal man too it doesn't involve fucking fixing shit around the house that's not something I do you know I mean it drives my wife crazy but I don't think of myself as any less of a man and can I fix it yeah I can fix it can I you know be boisterous and loud and fucking you know just be a dick yeah absolutely but it's a behavioral choice as long as I know that sometimes though sometimes you anytime you say I am you're deleting something so that's something to be careful of like when I say I I don't need to fix anything but you know then I have to go well in what areas other areas am I saying well I don't need to do that and I do it with my business I do it with some of the things I don't want to do with business and if I don't feel like calling you back that's more out of you know I just don't do that I don't feel the need to do that so but it was that it's not really arrogance but it's more out of now I don't know aloofness or kind of you know just being being I don't want to be made to have to do stuff and that could come from my childhood you know I don't have to call people back I don't have to but but then again I have to look at the reality and say well what's the end result of that as you lose business if you're not taking care of your customers you know those are the things where it may work in this area of your life but it'll fuck you up over here constantly you know that's why you should have it all available and open and say okay I'll use it over here but not over here unless this happens then I'll use it and always you know but I can't you can do it you can use it it's there for you if you don't you know if you put yourself in a box just be sure that you can take yourself out and re-insert over here over here at will I think that you know that's the whole thing like nature the truth you know society and culture this crazy feedback loop in the individual it's like what does the individual want to express well we got to learn to do that by mixing in with the world around us and it's going to be different for different things we're going to find out that what makes our ourselves a winner and a loser might come from a dysfunction a singular dysfunction it's like to sort that out you know everybody so afraid to experience you know we've we've got to we've got to do that you know that's such a fundamental thing but one last thing you know what you're going to speak about this year oh yeah yeah we talked a little bit about it but I'm going to talk about the three reasons why every man needs to train for extreme violence and we touched on some of those but basically the three reasons why and within that I'm going to interweave a little bit of a philosophy so that that you know what what this thing about training and the training method will do for you how you can take that philosophy and apply it and it can help you in business and life and this whole thing but it's you know it's basic it's basic in its concept and that you know you need the first thing is I won't tell you all three but the first thing is survival obviously we all you know you know shit can hit the fan every day and if you don't you don't know how to protect yourself or your family like I said earlier is a hundred percent of the people who've been murdered had never been murdered before right so you can't use that as an excuse it can happen it can happen to anyone I mean a large portion of those people who've been murdered had never thought it would happen to them so that's the first but really it's the other things that why as a man do we need to do that and what will it do for you know what one of the reasons why to you sitting out there who's never in a fight never thought about it why do you need to train for extreme violence you know and for me as a man if you're on that path or you're a true seeker you know what are the reasons what's that going to do for you because it's one thing to talk about anything talk about your expertise talk about fitness but you have to decide what it is for you you have to you have to make that thing go why would how does this even because that's really all that matters what I say up here doesn't matter what matters is if what I say can work for you in your life and how can it work so I'm going to really just talk about the three reasons why everybody every man on the planet needs to train for extreme violence you know and my experiences with that how it's changed me and then kind of a little bit of the philosophy that you know even if you don't do this training it's the outlet when you get the mentality I mean you know I think you can get the mentality through other means you know my vehicle just happens to be martial arts and specific way of training but I'm sure people could discover this through the love of cooking or something else that's my vehicle so it's the you know it's the concepts behind that that I'm going to kind of share you know and the base level is yeah the very first thing is survival because that's the first thing why do you eat during the day because if you don't you're going to die you know you have to you got to get up you've got to if you can see it in all societies when people lose their survivability they lose everything else meaning if they're worried about their survival from day to day then then everything else just goes out the window you know all their culture everything all their it's all their kind of the first and last thing they have to concentrate on that day is their survival their next meal their this their that so you know we don't consider that because we we're in such a rich society but ultimately we should if you have a family or anything yeah you should always consider your survival and that's the first thing but that's the base level that's like why do you pick up girls you know what other avenues does that open up for you when you start doing that it's like the side effect of doing that and which we talked about a lot a lot today kind of go into some stories and details about that but kind of intermix the philosophy of because truly for me man it completely transformed my life and it is my life like I view I'm a I'm a martial artist but I'm a true seeker first I use martial arts to to help me discover the truth and so it's I don't think with without it I would ever ever be thinking the way I think now you know I wouldn't have I wouldn't have the eyes and I'm not saying I'm wise I'm just saying I am who I am because of that and I have discovered in my own life some pretty amazing things that all came out of the need to just fight you know save my ass from getting beat up every day but that was just the impetus to start a whole journey of self discovery and really true seeking you know and everybody everybody should be seeking the truth but very few people do it cool man as as you can tell it's like I think very little did we talk about fighting in this but is we're seeing a lot with a lot of the different speakers and kind of like the upper level guys and the whole men's development movement you know fitness dating entrepreneurship fighting all that sort of stuff is everybody saying that same thing you know everybody's everybody's found it you know and made it a way of life and it's just interesting to see your window of that today anyway fight fast and flee that's where that's where you're at yeah get on that list I'm gonna have some new things hopefully by the talk I will but if you just get on that get on an email list then eventually I'll email everyone to some things I'm working on I'm sure pretty cool and I just don't know if I'll have it by the 21 convention so that's probably the best way fight fast and flee or force dynamics with an X and just put in your email and then you'll be able to keep up with some of the new things I have some products but what I'm coming out with is a lot more I'm much happier with with that so now cool man well we'll see again soon most definitely yeah alright man hey happy birthday birthday to you alright I'm gonna go train hey thank you so much for watching and being a part of this movement of man building the conversation that we're doing here to be the ideal man if you want to take that a step further of course go to the 21 convention dot com check out our videos man our YouTube page is so prolific and of course subscribe to all our venues of communication whether that's iTunes or Stitcher and of course our massive YouTube channel and if you want to take it a step further beyond that don't wait any longer go to the 21 convention get your tickets interact with the speakers it's an entirely different experience where you get to meet interact pick the brains of these basic geniuses of our culture in modern times focusing your journey your journey to be the ideal man thanks for watching Steve Maeda signing off