 Governors of the all-progressive Congress APC insist on having a convention before the presidential primaries. And the People's Democratic Party PDP affirms that it has not zoned its 2023 presidential ticket to any part of the country. Or this is Plus Politics. I am Mary Anacol. The ruling all-progressive Congress APC met on Sunday, January 9 to decide a substantive date for the party's national convention. This was partly in response to the caution issued by President Mohamed Abahari in an interview that by the dilly-dallying, the APC might be setting itself up for defeat by the opposition, the People's Democratic Party, in 2023. Now, speaking with State House Correspondents, the Chairman of the Northern Governors Forum and Governor of Platu State Simon Lalong noted that deliberations at the Sunday meeting would centre on picking a date for the party's convention. Lalong explained that the party is working towards having its convention in February, and that despite concerns the President raised about the issue, the governors were determined to ensure that nothing stops the convention. While joining us to discuss this is Mooriz Baniere. He is a senior advocate of Nigeria and a legal practitioner. Thank you very much for joining us, sir. Thank you. Good evening. Great. So, of course, the party, according to the opening of this conversation, is insisting that there has to be a convention before they have the primaries of the party. And of course, this is something that happens. It's normal. But why is it that the governors are the ones who are fronting and asking that this be done before the party primaries? I mean, February was already set from last year as a month that they would be conducting the primaries. So, has anything really changed? Well, I'm not a party member, but I know from what I read all over your place regularly that a lot of intrigues is going on within the ruling party. And I'm aware of the fact that, like you already said, it is unconventional to have a convention come primaries at the same time simultaneously. It is not proper. It's not regular. In fact, it's a source of confusion. But like you already said, the governors are stakeholders within the party. So, also, a lot of other people that are stakeholders within the party. But normally, it's usually the national executive council of the party that's supposed to determine when actually that will be taken place. Of course, as you know, the APC cannot boast of such a body right now. And they do not even have a board of trustees. They hardly have any meeting of the natural court cause. So, most of the time, you're only here of the president, you're here of the governors, and you're here of the caretaker committee. Most of these bodies, for example, the governor's forum, the president, they are all alien to the structure of the party, as far as the constitution is concerned. Even the caretaker committee itself. So, to a large extent, the party has been in crisis. And that crisis is still lingering. And that is why I see this challenge that they are having. I've said it almost six or eight months ago that certainly it seems to me clearly that the inclusion of the party is inevitable. And I think they are working actively towards that. Thank you. Well, President Mahmoud Buhari had a meeting prior to this. And he was quoted to say that he wanted a time, a particular time fixed for the convention, which so many people have said that this ask by the president has further dippened the crisis within the party. And as the leader of the party, how much power do you think the president wields, you know, as to the fact that he would want to bring the party together or reconcile the warring factions to make sure that the party can go forward. Do you think the president has that much power, being that the APC in itself does have a lot of strongmen? Well, let me, let me, let me confess to you that while I was the national legal advisor of the party and a member of the National Working Committee and the executive council of that party, the president had always resisted invitation to be domineering in terms of party affairs as much as possible. But as since progressing, you discovered that gradually people in my view are gradually bringing all pressure on him to take charge of the party. In other words, submitting the entire party to the president. And I think that led to what happened eventually in dismantling the earlier structure of the party. If you recall that the meeting that led to the dissolution of the National Working Committee was presented over by the president. Again, that certainly also was an irregular act within the party constitution. But that had taken place, but the truth of the matter is that often now practically all the major stakeholders in the APC look up to the president for direction on all affairs, in all affairs of the party. So to that extent, I believe that they have on their own, voluntary submitted the authority of the party to the president. But when does that leave the national leader of the party, you know who I'm speaking about, the former governor of Lagos State, because he's also called the national leader of the party. What is his responsibility in this regard? But there's nothing like that. As far as I know, there's nothing like national leader of the party in the APC constitution. There are so many national leaders of the party. But he's known generally and nationwide as the national leader of the party. And members of the party have also alluded to this. So whether it's in the constitution or not. Isn't there the way people always in Nigeria tend to massage orders? But constitutionally speaking, there's nothing like national leader in the APC constitution. And if you are talking to the best of my knowledge about national leader of the party, technically you might be the president, maybe one in charge of the affairs of the country and the ambassador of the party in government. But generally speaking, there are national leaders of the party, not a single national leader. It's not a position that is provided for in the APC constitution of the best of my knowledge. So it's alien to the APC constitution. Let me push you forward on the issue of zoning. Because this is on the lips of every Nigerian. We're talking about zoning, pressure groups, different groups across the country, especially in the south, talking about zoning. So like I said, many groups are asking political parties, not just the APC, but the PDP and other political parties, that they should jettison the idea of zoning and throw open the party tickets to all and sundry. And I'm wondering, what do you think the APC will be standing on this, bearing in mind that you have been and worked with the APC? What direction do you presume they might be going in this regard? From my observation, it seems that the APC is going south from my observation. But that is not to say that again there is a limitation in terms of the law to any other aspect of coming from any other part of the country to contest. It happened before. Recall during the presidential primary of General Abrari that someone like Rocha Sokorocha also contested during that period. Now we'll tell you before that there was this unspoken zoning to the north. And the same thing is not unlikely to happen this time around also. It seems that the APC tend to be looking towards the south. Like I said, that does not automatically exclude the government aspirant from about as those of the country. Why do you think the push for the south is becoming more and more loud, especially now in 2022 looking forward to the elections? Again, I ask this not because I do not think that the south should be pushing for anything, but I'm asking we've been zoning for years. We've been rotating this power even though certain persons in certain parts of the country have been given the short end of the stick. But should we after this administration be looking at zoning or should we be looking at one who's capable to deliver? Well, it depends on your perspective. I must tell you that originally and for some time I've always believed in competency as opposed to zoning. In other words, let's look for somebody who is able to deliver the goods. But in recent times, the result of so many acts of injustice in the land and a lot of agitation in the land and beginning to think seriously speaking that that might appear to be one of the ways to address the tension in the country presently. Interesting. Now, there are divisions within the party bringing you back to the APC again. It was gathered that some governors are no longer comfortable with the goalpost shifting politics within the party and this has been credited to the Ketika Extraordinary Convention Planning Committee which is headed by Governor Balabuni. I'm wondering why do you think this committee has been plagued by so many controversies and I'm not just talking about one, I'm not even talking about this. I'm talking about several controversies which you and I have actually had conversations about. Well, maybe if you look at the foundation and the forces, how did they come to be? That's number one. Two, look at the composition, another challenge. The third aspect of it is the way and manner in which they have carried out the primary. The Congress is sorry, the Congress is in different parts of the country. To the extent that today, in virtually all the states of the country, you have parallel executive at all levels and that is one of the facts of meditating against the convening of any convention now because half a consolidated list of delegates to that convention would be an equilibrium that's even an impossible one for the Ketika Committee. Just today, I just read online that even in Kepi, for example, Senator Leroy just opened a parallel APC office and you know it exists in Kami, it exists in a lot of people in Lagos. There's a lot of places, all these exist. Which list are you going to ultimately use for this purpose? The problem is, I mean, the problem of APC is one that is saying if that I personally do not know how they are going to submit it. Even common membership register, there is no credit for membership register of the party on ground which is the foundation of all subsequent acts of the party, particularly in terms of the Congresses and the convention and even the party primaries. This is a sacred document but which is not necessary as we are talking now. So the challenge is like rightly observed and I do not know how they are going to theme it before the convention. I want to zoom in again on the question I asked and what was raised, the concern that was raised by the Governors. I want to zoom in on the goalpost shifting politics and what you think they were making reference to. What exactly do you think they were talking about when they said the goalpost shifting politics? The goalpost shifting means that there is no established rule or regulation in whatsoever manner. So the scheduling of the event within the party, even the Congress, if you recall, the date that was given, all the dates given were shifted almost to three times. The same thing with the convention that is stressing them. Again, the rules of the game kept on shifting equally. So there are so many issues that are plaguing the party, particularly the activities of the extraordinary Catholic Committee. You cannot say this is where we stand and you go to sleep at. You might wake up tomorrow and find yourself elsewhere. And that's what people are saying that there is a need to reasonable certainty in the affairs of the party rather than what it was. For example, their proposed primary is supposed to be February now. Often they nobody know the exact date. Committee ought to have been formed more than three months before the event because the convention is not usually a small thing. It's just a lot of logistics. There is a notification aspect to the commission which they can add 21 days. See, these are all the issues that people are wondering that, look, where are we? So there is no credibility right now in terms of the affairs of the party. And that's why people will say that the goalpost keeps shifting to the extent that there is so much of sustainability. The law appears to be shrouded in secrecy. I'd like to push you a bit further. This one is a pretty direct question. You might not necessarily be in the position to answer it, but I would ask because you were a member of the political party. Now, all of the issues that are cropping up and bedeviling the party as we speak, could these also be pointers to how this party was formed? I'm talking about the foundation of the APC. The policy, the blueprints, was it built to last? Did it have long-term goals? Are they seemingly able to achieve these goals? Or was it meant for a certain reason? And the time for that has passed, and that's why the party is somewhat suffering. Well, to a large extent, you might be right in the sense that there is still a large disconnect among the members of the party, particularly coming from different backgrounds. I want to have expected that after the merger, there will have been active effort to ensure that everybody is integrated into one, but that never took place, and I'm not too sure it's taking place right now. So, to that extent, the foundation itself might be part of what is plaguing the party right now. Again, what are the goals? What did they set for themselves? They set up an idea of power and the use of say. Beyond that, have they been able to build an institution, a multilet, a very strong institution? I'm not too sure about that at all. So, to that extent, I believe that it will seem to me, let me put it that way, that at the time of the merger, the primary motive of the party was simply to raise the power from the people's democratic party, which after accomplishment, people tend to just concentrate on the hijack of the various positions and offices that are available rather than trying to be the united and virile party. Finally, before I let you go, let's talk about some of the movements within the party. We've seen certain organizations put together and certain people, groups coming out to tell us certain persons within the party to run for the presidential ticket. We've also seen billboards surfaced in the federal capital territory of the vice president, which is also indicating interest for him to run for the presidential ticket. Would you get a comment on how these two people from the same place, especially the vice president and of course the former governor of Lagos State, Tinnabu, how this would affect the structure or maybe the body language of the southwestern parts of the party? I don't see it affecting whatsoever manner. Ambition is usually legitimate. People can always have ambition. The only thing is that you prosecute in a manner that is not divisive. But that's not the wrong guy. In my opinion, it's a strategy to have as many materials as possible from the southwest coming out so that people can have choices and at the end of the day we can have our best being pushed out there. Alright, well thank you very much. Mui Banire is a legal practitioner. He's also a senior advocate of Nigeria. Thank you so much for speaking with us. We appreciate your thoughts. My pleasure. Alright. Thank you for staying with us. We'll take a short break now. When we return, we will discuss whether or not the People's Democratic Party PDB has zoned its presidential ticket to anyone. Stay with us.