 Think the audio is good Okay, now we are alive live on the metal voice first time. I think this is the first time You know, there is a Hollywood director on the metal voice Penelope Penelope Sphyrus An honorary Greek Well, yeah, we could work on the we could work on the vocabulary a little bit in language, but yes Well, Penelope Andreas Sphyrus is pretty Greek Yeah, yes, it is. Yes, it is. Welcome to the show So everybody knows who this lady is I started off Saturday night live. I guess as a writer. Is that is that correct? Actually, I was working with Albert Brooks producing his short films because Lorde call me up Lorde Michaels call me up one day He's a Canadian right and and I knew him before Saturday night live and and he said I have a really funny Guy comedian that He won't be one of the players But he wants to make little short films and he doesn't know how so will you please teach him how to make films? So I did Okay, cool Then of course the decline of western civilization part one part two part three We have Wayne's world. I mean who doesn't love Wayne's world right And so many other projects that just countless But those are the ones that people seem to adore and love and have done well at the box office more or less, right? Yeah, you know, I'm happy with the ones that did well and the other ones, um, I don't care about Yeah Okay, um, tell me about you know as a woman, when did you get into film school? I'm assuming you went to film school How did why did you want to be a director? Well, I was actually going to college uh to study science and I was involved with the biological sciences and now a human behavior sciences and That sort of thing and then a friend of mine told me um that there was a film school at UCLA and I didn't even know back in those days like that there was A place you could go to learn how to make movies and so, um, I I ditched university to Irvine Sciences and I went to UCLA film program And stayed there way too long because I knew if I left I couldn't get a job And uh Yeah, so yeah, UCLA master's degree in film. I have wow No one ever asked me to see my master's degree. You have it. Do you have it around there? It's around here somewhere Let me let me ask you this you when you were in UCLA film school What year was that and who else that maybe Became became a famous director. Let's say or uh of the time or Jimmy I was going to UCLA at the same time that um Right after Jim Morrison left by the way. Okay, so uh started in the late 60s and at USC was um, George Lucas and Steven Spielberg. Yeah, so um That was a long long time ago On a planet far away. Oh, no, sorry. Did you did you pass Jim Morrison in the hallway or as he was leaving or no But I passed the spirit of Jim Morrison in the hallway And he blessed me with his musical Know-how and somehow I hooked up music and filmed together and the rest is history No, I don't know Who who was your influence? So just so you know if I look this way It's just because somebody's sending me a text. I'm not ignoring you and Brett says Who was your major directoral influence? as Well, you know, it's weird speaking of greeks because you know, you're greek and I'm greek um one time my brother Jimmy Spiras was walking down the street in venice california and um, He was introduced to a guy named Costa Gavras And costa said oh my goodness your last name is spurious. That's my mother's last name and so Costa Gavras was Like one of my three favorite directors that I couldn't believe I was related to my idol And so, uh, Costa's mother and my father Rather and sister Yeah, uh, so I costa gavras and um John costa vettis another greek. Yes strange strange and uh, then Um, frederick weisman on documentarian. So I have to include the jewish community as well Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um When you were going to school and learning about film How many other women were in the class? oof In my class, uh in the early 70s Uh, it was chick strand barb, uh, donna diech um Shirley clark was actually teaching there. She's a great filmmaker and actress. Um, I'm going to say probably three you know Was was california more of a relaxed liberal sort of You know, they weren't they were more accepting. Maybe that's the right word of females trying to get Into that sort of profession. Well, not if there was only three of us Yeah, I mean, maybe there were a couple more but those are the ones that I remember sort of went somewhere and stood out, you know um It was hard because like when we go into school at ucla back in those days Women would think oh, maybe when I get out of school, I could be a script supervisor Or or I could be um An editor, you know Or assistant editor and bring the real editor coffee and shit like that, you know But you know I never even imagined I could be a director back then Yeah actually women That's a good point women were That got into film usually started off as editors That was where they excelled back in the 30s and 40s. I believe because they were so Meticulous in what they were doing where the where the men were very less a fair or whatever you want to call it and I'm sure you know about that, right? Yeah, I have different words for business cold laser fair works All right, so You know, you're you're kind of making your way. What was your first production that you did that? You're proud of that got some sort of traction That I directed you mean yes, yes, that you do it's the decline of western civilization Actually, you know what check this out freaky when I was at UCLA. I did seven short films And you're only supposed to be three, but I kept making little films on the side. So now um The Whitney Museum in New York is showing one of my short films uh next year Next year and the Academy of Motion Pictures made a program and included another film. I did Which was about an hour long and so eight short films. I did there. So I did direct before Those, you know, obviously before I did the first decline, but that the first decline was 79 I started shooting. Yeah What was the inspiration For the first decline movie And for everybody who doesn't know it was a punk rock. It was a scene west coast punk rock scene at the time Right. Um, I had always been totally into music growing up. I I was um I was into music because I had a pretty rough upbringing and whenever I felt bad and had to go high From a nasty stepfather. I would be listening to rock and roll, you know, and um So it was my cozy blanket to hide away from the world and you can probably a lot of people can relate to that I think, you know And then when I saw punk rock start happening in Mid 70s 76 77 in los angeles and listen to the sex festivals and started going to punk shows I thought, you know what? I got to document this because I know how to make movies and I had started a company called rock and reel Which was the first music video company here in los angeles And I had equipment for the record companies. So I would shoot shoot the uh record company Of videos during the day and then at night I would go out to the clubs and borrow their equipment and shoot some punk bands What was the budget on decline one? 112,000 dollars Let's see uh today that would be about uh 400,000 dollars. I guess probably yeah. Did you have to borrow that? um No, there was a friend of mine He said that he knew this guy that had made a bunch of money. Um You know just in various businesses and he wanted to make a porno movie and would I direct it and I said, um Absolutely not but Maybe he'd like to go to a couple of punk rock shows with me and I'll tell him what I got in mine His name is jeff pretty man. God bless him and uh, he got my my career started because he financed the film Yeah, yeah, well when you look back now I've seen the film many times the first one Do you think that you know, I I did it I captured that that what that is a snapshot of what it was like Back in 79. Yeah Do you agree with that and do you think that did capture it? I tried, you know, I mean, I don't think I did it a thousand percent correctly in retrospect because some of the bands that we included Were not Really hardcore punk rock, you know, I mean, I don't think x is uh People always refer to x and bands like the Ramones and clash and those kind of bands as as punk rock, but You know for me, I have a different definition and I like to think that they're Nuts punk bands are not so melodic as the bands that I just mentioned and their lyrics are are a lot more aggressive assertive and uh in your face than You know rock and the cos by, you know, I'm saying What did you learn from that experience of like decline part one that that You carried to the next to your next projects Well, I think what I learned was it ain't over till it's over because That film when it first came out was banned in the city of Los Angeles because There are riots going on trying for people trying to see the film And uh, so when I say it ain't over till it's over Well, huh it's in uh library of congress national film registry now So Yeah, my dog is barking. I'm sorry. No, it's okay. I see your cat in the background too But she's seen I got a little cat back there. Yeah. Yeah, that's okay. That's nice. Um So the success of the first decline so Now la's changing or at least that scene or the sunset strip is changing It's turning more into heavy metal. Of course, there is a bigger gap between 79 to 88, right? There's all that that's What's going on your head? Oh man. This is I gotta capture this now. Is that is that what's happening? Like you're saying somebody needs to capture this this moment right now Yeah, that that's exactly what I thought and The fact of the matter is people think that A woman director can you know, I mean I didn't have Wayne's world hit at that point, right? So I I I just had my um A couple of independent films behind me and the first decline behind me. So when decline 2 Uh presented itself as uh an opportunity, uh, you know, I grabbed it and It you know, it it came at a time where that was the most Popular music here on the strip in la and the budgets I worked with I couldn't be flying all over the place And the people that I was working with were totally infatuated with Uh glam metal and the hair bands and that's what was happening at the moment that I was able to get um Declined to started, you know So if I would if I would have been asked a year later, uh by paul collishman, who Is the one that actually started decline 2 What what movie would you do if you could do any movie penelope? You know, if that would have been a year later the music would have been totally different You know It's true. That's true. But if it would have been a little sooner It would have been a little different as well, right because that's right. Yeah That's right. It would have been a little more Grass roots instead of well more van Halen, I guess Yeah, yeah, and then sort of then glammy and harry But stevie rachelle by stevie rachelle by the way says hi Oh, I love stevie. He's I should put them tough in the movie, huh? Well, they are in the movie right in decline. They're in decline too. They're not performing though. They're not performing. Okay, which Is a good segue to the next part You had you're making this movie How did you decide? Okay, this band is going to perform this band is going to be interviewed How did you make your decision? Of who you're going to cast as you're sort of your talking heads or your performances How did you come to that conclusion? Well, that's that's a really good question jimmy and I have a really good answer um whoever Is that it the The fact of the matter is when I did the first decline. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted to showcase Unknown bands, you know And then I wanted to stick with that for the second and third one is to showcase unknown bands and at that point um There weren't a lot of music tv shows and certainly no music movies going on and so we were able to you know Hey, oh gene Simmons. Do you think you could just do an interview with penelope because I knew gene already, you know and I knew ozzie for 20 years before we did decline too and You know, I knew most of the large or the high profile names in the film And we were able to just call them up and say could we interview you but the purpose of the decline films is to show Unknown bands, you know Well, you know what but I mean the whole name of the film decline of the western civilization In a sense, it's it's kind of clever, but in another way It's kind of it when I first heard the title when I was a teenager I go What are they making fun of you know us us metal heads at the time? But what was your thinking behind the title? Bad ass Well, I think it just fit because in the first decline um It was such a huge Change in music and not only music but in in the culture in in People's attitude in in in fashion and it reached a lot of different levels and it felt like punk rock was trying to tear down tradition And they were and they did and thank god, you know um Because everything has to change, you know always we're in flux here on this here planet, but um So I felt like the decline of western civilization was appropriate Because everything has a beginning middle and end and not even the roman empire ate it, you know what I mean Well, it's a cultural shift both all three declines. Yeah, especially one and two And I get that and it's it's sort of like an outcast type of title like Here we are this little minority this subculture group and we're in your face And we're going to change the world and we're going to change the world But then that shifts to something else and then they say they want to change the world and it shifts to something else That's that's the way it goes Let's talk about the characters In in decline part two kiss gene Simmons and paul stanley. Okay. You have gene as the the wise the wise man with the wise ideas and You know, he's like in your I wouldn't say in your face, but he's uh Words and all let's say whatever he says. Yeah, this is how it is. These are my words of wisdom. What's what was your thinking when you filmed him? Well, I actually thought um, see Gene Simmons is remarkably intelligent. I don't think people really understand that, you know he kind of acts stupid sometimes, but he's really flip and smart and uh And so is paul, you know um I thought the thing to do would be to have The subject choose the location that they were going to be filmed in So I said to paul, where do you want me to film you? And he said in bed with three girls or was it four? I don't know five or six five or six maybe I could bunch of chicks in the bed. Okay, and then um A gene said he just didn't want to do anything tacky And I said well, what do you want to do? And he and he said well, how about We filmed me with a bunch of chicks Walking around trashy lingerie. I said, oh great. So we won't do anything tacky, but we'll we'll be back Yeah I love those guys But I mean, it's quite the opposite right paul's lying in bed, you know Sort of projecting the sort of young male fantasy, right where jane is standing in some sort of store Under where the word okay giving some words of wisdom right it's it's All right, all right. Let's talk here a great team. You know, they really balance each other out, you know um, how about the bands like odin and seduce who? Kind of were there, but today we can see they clearly never went the distance Did they really like tell me about those bands? Why you included them? Well at the time odin uh, randy. Oh Uh, the singer was you know, the he was considered The hottest thing on the strip at that time. Okay, you got bill gizari calling him. He's such a sexy guy you know Foxy dude. Anyway So so randy and odin we all thought were going to make it. They certainly thought they were going to make it um seduce I will say Wasn't one of my top choices for inclusion in the film because They weren't from la even and most of the bands were I was one of my rules But they were represented by the Guide that financed the film. So it's just like in the music business if you got to include One of their unknown bands if you want to get blah blah, you know If you want to get the money to make your movie you got to put seduce in it So there you go not to put those dudes down, but um, I thought they had some interesting things to say, you know Whatever So and then going back to the original question I asked you on the other movie. Do you think that it captured? a Snapshot of what it was like not only in the west coast but globally There was posers. There are people who want to make it. There's big names. There's bands that did make it Looking back now to go, you know what I captured that moment Well that moment jimmy I did capture Would I have preferred to capture a different moment? That's a good question. Yeah Oh, thank you. I asked myself a question You don't need me. You don't need me. I don't need you man. No But if I would uh, you know How my choice and I didn't have a choice Okay, I had to do it when I had to do it and that's the bands that were popular at that time and so You know if I would have how my choice I would have waited a little while because You know, I had a fight to get mega death into the end of that movie There are more serious band. There are more Hardcore aggressive band. They're more in a way sophisticated musically, you know And so if I would have waited I would have had a lot of More hardcore bands in there. Well, I mean there's Metallica, right? Were they asked? Oops Hold on We're not allowed to show that Metallica What? Oh lord Hi, I'm doing an interview right now. May I call you back? You got it All right, we're good It's all good. Hi. Sorry. It's all good. It's all good Sometime and if you know if you need to pee break you go for a pee break come back. It's all good Double coffee. Yeah All right, let's talk about mega death. So mega death's at the end of the film I'll someone pointed this out to me the other day they go You know, you have all this hair, but lurking, you know coming out now here comes the thrash The scene is changing once again. That's was that's right Does that purposely put at the end of the film to say you know what these guys are kind of fading out But these new guys are coming in very good observation on your half Yeah, and also whoever said that because that was exactly what was going on, you know, and The urban myth which is actually the fact is the guns and roses was supposed to Be the final act in decline too But um slash and I were working on it Putting everything together And the day before we were going to shoot Their manager said I want to go see where you're going to shoot So I took him down the soundstage. It looked great blah blah And we knew which songs we were going to do blah blah welcome to the jungle and so You know We thought he had it worked out and at the last minute the bastard said I'm pulling him you can't shoot him And he knew he knew I mean a smart manager But he knew that once you're on a roll with a band you don't go take a chance That could have been it. He doesn't know what this movie's going to be, you know I understand why he did it but um piss me off really bad, but um You know that I got mega deaf and I had worked with Dave and the band before Dave Ellison Dave Dave Mustaine and all of these and I had worked with them before um For west craving movie. I did a shocker video and I also shot one of their great songs wake up dead Uh as a video and if you look at wake up dead on uh on youtube or something you can see so many elements of uh visuals that would would would be integrated into mtv metal videos per years, you know the chain link fans and the You know, there's so many different things. I won't even tell you but well, no We all know about it, especially in my age group because that was the video that was the video that sort of uh Spoke to us, right? Did you have like the fans around the cages? I mean, that's the one that that those are the images that that we That were imprinted in our brains as young teenagers Wow, so good for you. Good for you. Good for you for remembering those details Thank you. All right. So what about metallica? I mean, okay, there was mega death, but there was metallica first sort of like, you know, Dave Obviously, Dave was in metallica and then, you know, that all fell apart. So, um, I couldn't have both of them in the movie. Uh, you know, I didn't a metallica was actually Taken off pretty heavy duty like guns and roses at that time. So it's you know, it's like Trying to get the president to sit down have a cup of coffee, you know So What about Ozzy, you know, you know, it's great about Ozzy that scene when he's cooking a lot of things Okay What's amazing? I just rewatched it right to remember what that scene was like. Okay He's funny and he actually gives a complete history In about a few minutes of basically black Sabbath and where he is today If you really listen to it carefully He's funny about it And he's informative and he just summarized everything pretty nicely. You're there in the kitchen people are saying You kind of exaggerated some shots. What what happened in that scene? Well, I was a bunch of questions in there my man. All right, but feel free go ahead and try to work with them. Um I had known Ozzy and Sharon for a long time before I did decline to and I used to um Go to all the all the concerts, you know, both the Ozzy band and the Sabbath and whatever and Before Ozzy goes on stage. He's really nervous. Okay. And so he's got like all these vaporizers and things around and he's got People trying to calm him down and Sharon would always say there'd be a line of people down down the hall Penelope come in and please Please make Ozzy feel better. You calm him down so much. And so I would go in before the shows and Hey, man, you know chill and mobile And so I knew him and we were actually going to make a movie together It was called shooting stars and it was a producer named David Beagleman and It never happened because Beagleman said Ozzy isn't funny and I said because it was coming and I said Ozzy is hilarious. He goes no he bites heads off bats and then You know, and I'm saying no the guy is hilarious. He thought it was a rubber bat. Please. Let's do the movie But uh, it it didn't happen and to this day when I walk in a room and Ozzy is there See David Beagleman, I hate to say but he Boom killed himself because he has the money troubles. Okay. Don't ever do that kids. Okay. No, no, um but um Today if Ozzy walked and I were together I did the first thing Why did that producer kill himself because he couldn't make a movie? I'm like, no, that's not why he did it man I Are you in any talks with Ozzy? Well, we're gonna talk about that. Yeah, not too long ago. Yeah, we'll talk about that after this um So Ozzy seen like let's just talk about that seeing you're filming What are your thoughts after you finish shooting it or during? Well, I thought he did a great job. I mean, I thought he's a really bad cook I mean, you don't put butter in a pan with bacon Um, first of all, I mean Ozzy doesn't cook let's face it. So that's why it was funny Uh, and yes, I did fake the orange juice scene. So let's just get that off the table right now Uh, after he walked out of the room um, I took that Rogue thing you kimono that he was wearing and put it on a grip and had him Miss the glass because I knew that moment when he was talking about we took everything Valium and And and I knew right then if I had to miss the glass it would be perfect So that that I did fake I'll cop to it put me in movie jail But you know Ozzy Ozzy's a genius in my opinion, you know, he's I don't know. I mean he's really really Not he's he's so street smart and so common sense smart He's not like he's, you know, gonna go teach You know math at uh princeton or some shit, but oops But um, you know the dude is smart, you know Who did you want in the film other than guns and roses? That you didn't get okay. There was the metallica guns and roses But who else did you want? I mean you got Ozzy got al scooper. I mean, who else did you want? That represented that time I was shocked that we got those guys, you know, I will say for decline one I felt bad that um, we didn't we didn't shoot the screamers and the weirdos and the plugs and gun club and So many great punk bands back then that's that's what I really feel bad about because Nobody else was shooting, you know, and they didn't get documented. So But as far as decline two goes um, and the high profile interviews subjects, um, I think we knocked it out of all parts, but um You know a lot of people gripe about the bands that played but you know screw them What about the um, I think I spoke to uh, jeff duncan From odin, but now in armoured saint And he said man, there was a lot of people who were saying they were gonna make it in that movie That didn't even play in a band And what they didn't even play in a band? But I mean, that's kind of like how it was everywhere in in north america. There was people, you know, uh Pretending they weren't a band. They looked like they played in a band, but they weren't in a band Well, I think it was the beginning of that. You know what? It's huh. I just thought of this It's the seed in the beginning of the kardashian syndrome Okay, it's like I'm gonna make it. I'm gonna be rich and that's gonna make me happy Well, guess what? It don't okay. And so to have that As a goal in life it to me Is so sad, you know um, and to see You know young people running around trying to emulate the kardashians and make their money and and be billionaires and Please that's not what life's all about But I guess they got to go down the road and find out. You know Money don't make you happy. That's how you think today, right? But at the time when you were shooting them What what were you thinking you're saying man, do you really think did you think maybe that's a really good question And I kind of felt the same way because I had been in the mute in the movie business Are around the scene long enough to know that the people who did make it And who were high-profile Their lives were so complex and and and in a way disappointing and sad, you know And so when I heard these kids saying I'm just gonna make it no matter what Because if I think it it'll happen. That was the concept if I think that I'm going to be Rich and famous and then it'll happen Well, uh, no That didn't happen. So let me ask you've been around all these people who have made it and who haven't made it What do you think is the common denominator for the ones who do make it and what I mean by make it, you know, we're talking about You know guns and roses level, let's say. Oh, there's a phone I'm really sorry. I don't know how that's okay. All right Oh I'm sorry. I can't talk. I'll call you back. Thank you. Bye. Bye Let me see if I can turn this thing off She I'm so sorry I'll throw it in the bedroom. Hold on a minute. I'll just throw it. All right. No problem There you go Okay, it's all good. Don't worry about it. It's okay Okay, I'm all about the reality Well, I hope I remember where I put that phone Just dial it on another number Call myself on my cell phone. All right. So where were we? Somebody called you. You tossed the phone in the bedroom then where we were at What is the common denominator that you think? Of the bat and this is a this is something for the young bands today, right? What is that common denominator of the bands who actually do make it and the ones who think they can make it by just thinking They can make it What won't maybe I should rephrase that the common denominator of artists who actually do make it Well, it sounds like I'm encouraging people to find out as a first goal in life If I try to solve that, you know and give you that answer And I don't recommend that as a first goal in life. Mind you, I recommend You know, I always say either you're a musician or you're not and a lot of those people In decline too as you mentioned There weren't even musicians magicians They weren't hearing Musicians, but they wanted to make it and be rich and famous, you know It's somehow so wrong But a common denominator to try and answer your question is obviously songwriting ability musicianship You know knowing how to play your instrument, but the most important thing I think is songwriting ability, you know And when the songs come from the heart, I mean, that's why my films that did well Did well because they came from the heart, you know the decline movie suburbia And means they all are something that I did not to make money. I didn't make those movies to make money and You know the minute I did start to try to make a movie Just to make money it went down the drain. So that's why I know it don't work You know, it's not a good motivation Were you spending 14 hours a day thinking about it preparing it? Preparing the scenes did it become your life when you're doing decline too? Well, what would I do any movie? It's my life, you know, I have a daughter Anna and she um, I always feel guilty because she's like You know, mom, I really liked it that you used to put me on the stage When fear was playing or Because you made me stay on the stage so I you didn't lose me in the crowd So my daughter at you know young age was always Always there, but it was very um And I left her in an editing room one time and it got locked out of the building You know I'm making movies It's really hard, you know and very very All encompassing and time consuming So the common common the common denominator in every industry. I think is perseverance. Yeah and hard work Yeah, when you when you immerse yourself completely in anything Somewhere somehow you'll come up on top. I don't know what that level is but You sound like those guys in the hot tub No, they were just thinking it I do it Um, okay. All right. All right. So let's talk about everybody keeps asking about the chris home scene Uh, the pool scene the famous pool scene that put the movie on the map because You know, my friends came back from watching it in the theater And they go, oh my god, you should see this movie. It's about metal. I go great There was never any documentary about metal up until then or if there was it was a very low budget And they go you got to see this pool scene with wasp chris homes That was that was the scene that that made him infamous, right? I mean you shot it When you shot it What as you were shooting it? What were you thinking? What were you feeling? I got Honestly, when I was shooting that scene in the pool with chris homes You know, I had I knew chris before we did the movie obviously but his and I knew his mom and Sandy And I asked her to come along because I got along with her and I liked her home But I honestly when I shot that scene, I thought it was just No good. It didn't work and I took the camera man. Jeff Zimmerman behind a tree And I'm like, dude, we didn't get it. You know, we don't have this scene in the we don't you know Because I asked blacky to If I could interview him and he didn't want to do it because he's too cool or something I don't know what but anyway, so then I asked chris because I knew I knew chris already, you know To and I knew blacky but whatever I'm dropping names Okay, anyway, I thought I thought Hmm, we didn't get it and then I went to the financier and I said After the whole thing is over with I said, can we reshoot that scene because it didn't work now You're right. It is the scene in decline two that everybody says and remembers and thinks of first when So you never know, you know, I tried they said, oh, you go cut it together try to make it work. I'm like, oh He screwed up. I couldn't do it. But yeah Did you show black? Did you show blacky the scene after that? Well, I'm sure he saw it, you know, I maybe called you up. I don't know what were his thoughts on it. I don't know No, I only saw blacky walking around the rainbow and shit like that, you know, it was like um And my boyfriend looked just like I'm only better looking um And everybody used to get him mixed up with blacky But, you know, I feel bad because chris thinks he didn't Get paid to we're gonna we're gonna get to that like chris has told me like, you know on the show like and he's told, you know, others You know, I don't think he has any mouse towards you or anything like that. He just I just want my money I want to get paid does I don't know. I mean, I feel bad that that I I think he feels that we didn't pay him but um I'll tell you something. Okay, check this out. Um, there was a club called FM station over in the valley and I don't know a little while after we did the film I hear somebody yelling my name And I look around and chris you can find him in the crowd because it's like 65 right or whatever And It's chris and he's gone. Hey, you know, if you help come you didn't pay me For doing your movie and I said I did pay you man. You were too drunk to remember you got the check and um That was the first I heard that he thought he didn't get paid But you see the the thing is The director doesn't pay The actors the people in the movie The production manager or the producers pay them and every time we film The producers or the production manager walked over hand them a check you have to do that Or it's not legal for even to be filming them. You know, so we did pay him Okay, I'm just gonna say this. I wasn't there, right? So I'm just I'm just this neutral party here Did the producer confirm to you that chris was paid or were you there when he got paid? I wasn't there, but they said he paid him. Okay. Maybe there's a miscommunication. That's what I'm getting at Maybe there's a miscommunication. That's all you know, it's it's or misunderstanding. Wish I'll say right I think so Okay. All right. This do you ever see look i'm a good i'm i'm chris's good friend. So have you seen chris's documentary mean man I like it Chris is the coolest dude chris is the coolest dude and you know what's great about chris. He's so honest Huh, he's so honest exactly. He's so honest and he's brutally honest And uh, I guess he really Believes he didn't get paid and I wasn't there. Okay, but I believe him. I believe you, you know, I there's What I'd like to do to straighten it all out to be honest with you would be Um to pay him again So you're saying, uh, no, I I could I can mediate this. Um, you're saying you're gonna write him a check for Whatever the amount 300 dollars. Yeah, so you're gonna you're saying you're gonna write him a check for 300 dollars So this way it's there's closure. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, because I don't want him to You know Feel bad or think that I jipped him or whatever or say things bad because he thinks that I'm A bad person. I'm not, you know, I um I'll be happy to pay him 300 dollars again No problem. I'm here. I'm the witness here. I'm the witness Check and you could I don't know how to yes You could send me the check and or I can give you, uh, you know, his wife's the meh's manager kathy You could send it directly to her And I'll make it up to I just need to know who to make the check out to and I'll get that information to you after the show But but I think that's you know what I think, uh, you know, that's a wonderful thing that you're doing You're closing that that chapter Well, I turn well in this business, you know, I don't make movies anymore I don't want to make movies anymore, but I still get checks for Wayne's world So I'll give 300 to chris homes. It's fine. I just don't want him to feel bad That's nice of you. That's very sweet of you. Okay. Good. I'm sure chris will be very happy You know, I I love chris to me. I'm his biggest fan You know, he's he's the coolest dude ever um Actually, actually back when I knew him um Before we made the movie I was actually Thinking god, I'd love to have that guy from my boyfriend, you know But I think back in those days those guys I swear to god. I did that. I did think that But back in the day those guys always liked strippers and you know Big boo blondes and stuff. That was the day that was the deal. Oh and younger girls too So I didn't fit the mold but whatever that's how much I like chris. I wish he was my boyfriend, you know I love your humor. You're great great season to you Yeah, I'm sure you're you're being honest. Yeah, all right. Well, definitely my guy What would you like to close on in regards to the decline of western civilization part two What what are your final thoughts on just that? We'll talk about Wayne's world next but What what maybe you could have done something differently Yeah, you're happy of what you did You'd like to do a part four perhaps on metal. What are your closing thoughts on it? There's a lot of questions. I I don't know. I mean I I feel like um You know, I'm not really good at looking back as a matter of fact I never even watch my old movies, but I will say this I did go um to the motion picture academy museum Because they screamed we sold ourselves for rock and roll recently Which is a movie that I did was Sharon and Ozzy 20 years ago And it was never released and it has black sabbath original black sabbath and um slipknot rob zombie um system of a down um it's got God's back fear factory little at all 10 bands in it with bucket head playing guitar in a cemetery Okay, and it's a great film and Sharon says she's going to release it now After 20 years, that's what I was going to ask you. It was shot 20 years ago. It was shot. It was osvast Yes, it was um, I went on a tour bus and went to like 30 cities and filmed uh all the 10 bands and Yeah So it's it's really it's really in in my opinion my best documentary No decline three is but anyway my second best documentary is we sold ourselves for rock and roll And Sharon says she's going to release it soon So what's the premise you're capturing capturing the band's backstage? Hang it out performing is that is sort of like what it's like being an osvast It's like you are going on tour on the osvast and you're seeing all these bands and I I respect the bands Slayer is in the movie. I respect I whatever city we went to Like for example, san francisco. We were there and I went. Oh, where can I film slayer? Ah Alcatraz. Okay. Oh slipknot. We're in dc. Where can I film slipknot? Ah the national monument so you see slipknot walking around at the at the national monument in front of any ram lincoln and You know, I put them in in different locations and I went backstage with All the bands and ozzy a lot of ozzy a lot of stuff with ozzy backstage And um, I think I mean look you don't know what it was like to work three I worked three years on that movie and it never got released I used to lay and wake up in the moria lay in bed cry for a half an hour before I get out of bed because I Never got the movie released and now I mean, it's a historical document at this point, you know of 1999 osvast Yeah, wow that that sounds really cool So people is this going into the theaters is this streaming? Where can people actually see it? Well? I don't know because I I hesitate to bother sharing right now. She's You know, I've got a lot of things on her plate right now. So, um I I am gonna get in touch next week though and um Do whatever I can to help her get the movie out, you know, well sounds amazing. I'm looking forward to that um You told me that you might be considering a part four of decline Yeah, you see that computer over there Got declined for on it I've got yeah, well the makings of let's put it that way I've just been really busy managing all my properties and everything and I really need to get back to Doing that movie in another documentary, but and I also wrote a book about my movie career. So Oh, that's amazing. When's that going to be out? Oh, I don't know. I can't figure out the title I can't figure out the title so I can't submit it to publishers, but um gotta have decline in there somehow you gotta Wiggle in Simon Abrams is his name. He's a new york reporter And and he um, he helped me write it and he said we should call it the decline Of panellope's world I like that. That's a great title. That's a great title. I like that a lot. Yeah Yes So What in what genre is that focusing on part four or you don't want to reveal that yet? Oh, I can't tell you now. It's not gonna be like taylor swift or anything. It's not gonna be uh a new No, you don't Mama don't do that Okay. All right. All right. So okay. That's a surprise. All right. Let's let's let's let's kind of like on the last topic Let's just talk about Wayne's world and this It just out of nowhere success You know the these these characters in 1992 Two metalheads in the basement playing air guitar Or kind of playing the air guitar what what brought you to To direct that movie. I mean What was it something you wanted to do or is it just sort of you know, I mean, I I always I'm I always took whatever job I could get it's not like You know, I'm not martin scorsese or you know Michael bay where I could go to the studio and say give me a check for a hundred million. I want to make a movie about love that Uh, that's don't happen with women. You know, I take whatever movie I can get, you know So I forgot what you were saying. That's one of my bitches go ahead Okay Basically you answered the question because you said you'll just take so they go. Hey, do you want to do Wayne's world? Sure. No problem. Is that exactly, you know, I'm much. Okay. Thank you There you go I could get my foot into the studio doors. Okay, because I never had done this A studio movie before Wayne's world. It was my first one you know so It was like me at all and I got in the director's guild and I got in the motion picture academy and all of a sudden I wasn't the outcast dipshit that made punk rock movies. I was Penelope spirits Head of the box office for two weekends or whatever it was, you know, and um, that's how come I know that Money and success doesn't answer all questions. You know what I mean and doesn't make you happy because really, you know family Doing good work helping people saving animals That is what life's all about, you know, strange enough in 1992 I had a tv access Cable access show Yeah, yeah, and it was it was just kind of it wasn't the same as Wayne's world But I had a cable access show and man did that hit home with me, you know, like metal like oh, yeah I mean the same age more or less and it's just wow It was just he woke up saying when we started doing the movie the studio the producers lauren michael's the writers Mike mires everybody said Penelope, do you really think that you can make this five minute cable tv Skit into a feature length movie and I said I am absolutely Certain I can do it and you know what I had I wasn't I wasn't sure at all. Well, you gotta you gotta act that way Yeah, you gotta sell it. You gotta sell the sizzle Yeah, I'm like, yes, no I could do it, you know, but I didn't have any idea It was going to go through the roof like it did none of us did How much ad-libbing was there in the script? well, um What I would do is I would shoot the script And then if we had time before we had to move to a new scene Mike and and dano would constantly go Um, I can do it better. Can we do this? Can we do that? Can we pull liquorice out of the car roof? You know and I'm like, well if we got time, I'll shoot some more stuff in that whole scene The last day of the movie was them laying on the roof of the car with the plane going over And they were totally ad-libbing right then and I just let the camera roll You know because there was a limo waiting outside to take them to the airport to go back to Saturday night live And I was giving as much footage as I can, you know How much of a headbanging scene with bohemian rap city was you versus them the actors? I'm gonna have to take credit for that because I put that exact same scene in another movie called dudes and Not with the same song But with flea and john crier in a Little Volkswagen going across the desert singing hava niggila hava and you know that That uh, jewish funk funk song And so I knew it was going to work, but mike didn't believe it was going to work at all and uh I will say though just to be fair that the the song itself was written into the script You know, I didn't say we got to use bohemian rap city there But i'm the one that orchestrated the way it was shot obviously i'm the director, you know It's so it's so amazing. Where did you come up with you know, we'll headbang in the car Was it just because you're around the sense at strip? Yeah, that's what we used to do That's it. We were really feeling good You know, we'd be in a car Bang in our hands. I was driving an 86 eye rock You know That's what we did It's so amazing because if the pool scene Was the scene in decline then that scene with bohemian rap see the headbang Was the money scene that's sort of every guy, especially my age or even girls too, but People sort of are my generation and I guess your generation as well Right away. It just it just you knocked it out of the park. It hit home Yeah, those two are the ones, yeah Yeah, why didn't you do Wayne's world part two? Um because Mike didn't want me to Because I wouldn't do the changes that he See it's not his fault. The fact of the matter is um, I mean it's his fault. He didn't hire me for Or the studio didn't hire me for two. It is his fault Well, he his dad had passed away and he wasn't there when we had our test screen Okay, so he didn't know that it really worked the way it was and he came back and he gave me like 11 pages single space notes Okay, and I'm like dude. I can't do that because it's going to screw up the movie He want to cut out the scene with laura, uh, swin boil, but popping over the car hood, you know When they were playing And so I saw I'm not going to do it and the studio says well You're going to have to tell him to know because if we tell him then he's not going to want to do Wayne's world too So I told him and he said you can't do Wayne's world too If you don't change it and cannot do Wayne's world too. I said fine. I'm not changing it You can imagine you can imagine how much I cried when when Wayne's world too bombed not I just watched Wayne's world again for like, you know the 20th time, but I just watched it recently It's a funny film and and you know what? I don't have any hard feelings about it, you know, and I hope Mike doesn't either And I hope chris doesn't have any bad feelings about the 300 bucks, but we're going to clear that up So, you know, I just want to walk away from this business uh With my head high and a lot of love in my heart for everybody I worked with Do you talk to mike mires today? He's canadian, but do you talk to mike mires today? um I think that's the first time I said that word in this interview. Uh, no I haven't spoken to mike in well, we had a screening at the academy, but It's not like No, I don't have any hollywood friends I have punk rock friends and you know metalhead friends. That's my friends You know, all right. Yeah, I don't have hollywood friends. I don't like them No Well, maybe that's what makes you special and that's what makes your film so great, you know That's what makes me not have that many friends, but whatever Is there anything you want to talk about and you want to promote other than the book that you're kind of writing And the movie, uh, oh, you know decline. Oh, oh you finished it. It's done. It's done. I did it during covid wow Covid And the only thing I would say, you know is just that um I hope we sold our souls uh for rock and roll gets out there soon You know means really a lot to me to have that movie out before I die Really do It really doesn't I I mean Because it's like you never know something bad or good until some time has passed. That's my favorite saying and You know back then I was brokenhearted that it didn't get released, but now it's better 20 years later It's amazing. Yeah, hopefully she'll do it Yeah, are you friends with Sharon Osborn? Oh, yeah, we're friends. So she's kind of like a hollywood friend in a way Uh, it's more of a music friend to me. I don't think you know, she's not like a movie person You know dana carvey. Do you ever speak to him? No I haven't seen him much in films a really long list. I don't have any hollywood friends honestly I mean I have well-known musician friends. I'm friends with tomorello You know, but um Really my hollywood movie making friends. No, no It's a kind of sleazy world You live in hollywood. Do you not around there? Yeah, don't mean I like it, you know Yeah, I I've lived in hollywood for 40 some years. Yeah Okay, I did an interview and they used this phrase as the headliner and then they put it everywhere where I said hollywood can blow me and Yeah, it got printed everywhere I know All right, and that's pretty much it Okay, I mean, I know there's some questions here. They said fast times What did penelope have to do with fast times at ridgemont high? I guess I didn't I didn't do that movie You didn't do that nothing so nothing. So she she just watched it after you I should she rented it people always think I did that movie. I didn't do it. Yeah Yes, I think there's a little touch of metal in there I think there's a not maybe not metal but cheap trick and hard rock. All right. That's pretty much it, you know Thank you so much You know, I appreciate it You know, it's a lovely chat. I know we went over 45 minutes I'm out of here then but do send me your address and who I should make my checkout Absolutely. Okay. Okay. Well, you don't Thank you so much