 Good Good evening everyone will call to order the August 1st 2019 regular meeting for the city of Santa Cruz Planning Commission I'll ask for a roll call, please And vice-chair Spellman is absent with notification There any statements of disqualification for tonight's items. Yes, I'll be accrucing myself from item number three due to my involvement in the business council and I will conflict out of number three as well due to My employer receiving financial support donations from both the appellant and the applicant So in my absence and the vice-chair then commissioner Conway will chair the meeting as immediate past chair There any oral communications and For members of the public oral communications is the segment of this of the meeting where we invite people from the public to Address the commission on anything that is pertinent for our business But it but which is not agendized for tonight So for the two items on our general on our public hearing agenda We will invite you to come up and speak to us But if there's anything you'd like to address to us that is our business But not on the agenda tonight now is the time to do that. Please come forward if you'd like to do that Seeing none will move to approval of the minutes. I will Invite a motion to approve the June 6th meeting minutes moved second all in favor. Hi. Hi Passes unanimously no abstentions. So we move on to a public hearing The first matter is 914 mission Street I understand from staff that this was intended to be a consent agenda item Agendized as a public hearing so rather than inviting staff to do a formal presentation Expedite things a little bit. I think Ryan. You don't have any Presentation beyond the staff report that stands on its own, correct. I have a presentation prepared, but again We'd see if anyone wanted to speak to it, right any issues with it So we'll We'll skip the staff presentation because I think the staff report is concise and well written We'll go straight to commissioners that have questions before we go to public comment any questions for staff for public comment So for this item, please come forward if you'd like to address the Commission will open the public hearing for 914 mission Street Like maybe everyone's here for item number three. Would anyone like to speak to the Commission on item number two? Okay, so we'll close the public hearing and come back to the Commission for discussion or emotion recommendation move the staff recommendation Seconded by Commissioner singleton all in favor. Hi. Hi. Hi. The passage unanimously no abstentions and You can move on to number three. So Commissioner singleton and myself will be excused and the presiding officer will be Commissioner Conway Good evening with this that fast change of plans and seating We will take up item number three on 110 Cooper Street. We'll start with the staff presentation. Thank you. Good evening, okay? So This is an appeal of an administrative use permit to establish a medical center at 110 Cooper Street The administrative use permit was approved by the zoning administrator on April 3rd of 2019 We received an appeal. I'm sorry. That's right April 3rd And then we received an appeal on April 15th The appeal hearing was originally scheduled for June 6th, and it was continued to today This is the location of the proposed medical center. This is for Kaiser Permanente It's at the corner of Cooper Street and Pacific Avenue. It's in the central business district zone district The general plan designation is regional visitor commercial Which provides for a mixture of uses that served residents and visitors The site is located in the Pacific Avenue retail district of the downtown plan This plan allows the establishment of a medical center on an upper floor of a building in the Pacific Avenue retail district With approval of an administrative use permit So here we have a floor plan of the proposed medical offices The total square footage is 21,641 square feet and includes the entire fifth floor and part of the second floor They will have up to 42 staff members and 45 patients in the facility at any given time the proposed hours of operation are I believe Monday through Friday 7 a.m. To 8 p.m The site is located in the downtown parking district This means that on-site parking is not required, but the applicant will need to pay a parking in Luffy Prior to the building permit issuance for their tenant improvement At the request of the Public Works Department We have modified the wording of condition number 10 since the zoning administrator hearing In order to accurately describe the name of this in Luffy and the time at which it is due So the fifth floor will provide 13 provider offices 22 exam rooms or by appointment visits a conference room a reception area a waiting room lactation room and administrative space There we have this part of the second floor that Kaiser will be They've applied to take over Product ops Which is the company that? Bob Cagle the opponent is the CEO of they are also on the second floor of this building So the second floor of Kaiser will include a clinical lab a small pharmacy a radiology department a Conference room a reception area staff break room and administrative space This floor plan was approved by the zoning administrator staff is aware that the applicant the appellant and the landlord have been in negotiations that could involve moving Kaiser or product ops to different floors within the building From what was originally approved The downtown plan allows a medical center on any upper floor in the Pacific Avenue retail district And it also allows an office use on any of the upper floors So therefore we're proposing to modify condition of approval number six To allow Kaiser to be on a different upper floor than that originally approved by the zoning administrator As long as the total square footage of their space is not greater than that was that was originally approved Okay, so finding number one of an administrative use permit requires the use to be In line with the general plan and also the downtown plan The project is consistent with several general plan policies Land use policy 4.2 encourages uses that reduce the need for automobiles Because the facility is going to be located in the most densely built area of the city's Kaiser is going to have a higher proportion of patients probably walking or using public transportation From nearby residences or places of work As opposed to If the facility was located in a less densely built area, they would probably be in that case There would be more a greater proportion of their patients driving to the site And so in that way we feel that this location does reduce the need for automobiles Land use policy 4.3 encourages the development and expansion of neighborhood commercial services The downtown neighborhood is currently underserved when it comes to a medical center So this can provide an essential neighborhood service for downtown businesses and residents Land use policy 4.3.1 Seeks to identify areas to allow or expand existing neighborhood facilities with an easy walking distance of residential areas Or those well served by transit So the proposed center at this location is within walking distance of the metro station And also many downtown residential units. For example, the units at 2030 north Pacific Avenue 555 Pacific Avenue and then the new park Pacific Units that are under construction right now at 1547 Pacific just at the street So the downtown plan requires medical centers located on an upper floor To be compatible with existing and planned lower and upper floor uses As described in the staff report we feel that this use is compatible with the nearby retail office and restaurant uses Okay, so I'll talk a little bit about the appeal The appeal letter was submitted by Bob Cagle who's the CEO of product option incorporated And the letter focused mainly on the project's consistency with general plan policy land use 4.2 Which encourages uses that reduce the need for automobiles The letter asserts that the project is not consistent with this policy because it will generate A large number of visitors that will drive to the facility rather than by walking I agree that this will probably happen A medical facility will create a lot of people driving to the downtown However, as I described earlier the proportion of patients coming to the facility Um That are that can walk there or take public transit there is greater than the proportion that would be able to do that If the facility was located somewhere else in Santa Cruz Um The appellant argues that there will be an increase in the number of people visiting the building Um, I agree. This is true Because the building is currently not rented to its capacity Um, Kaiser will be taking over a portion of the building that is currently vacant Um Utilizing buildings to their capacity and bringing more people to the downtown area Actually is in line with the downtown plan which seeks to create a vibrant mixed-use neighborhood that increases pedestrian activity The appellant also expressed a concern about Double parking outside the building that would result from cars coming and dropping off or picking up patients Um, this concern was also brought up at the zoning administrator hearing Um, in response the zoning administrator Did add a condition of approval for the applicant to coordinate with public works To determine if creation of a designated patient pick up and drop off space was possible Um, the public works department has since confirmed that it is possible to create such a space Um, it the uh, Kaiser would need to go through an appealable public process To have such a space approved Um, however, we also consulted with the economic development department and they expressed concerns that designating a space specifically For Kaiser, um, would take that parking space away from other nearby businesses and therefore Could create a situation that's not inclusive and fair for all the businesses in that area Um, so in order to balance the staff concerns from and opinions from different departments I'm proposing to delete this condition of approval So the applicant would not be required to apply for a designated pick up drop off space, but they also would not be prohibited If they felt that that would be necessary for their business Or should they be interested in doing so The appeal letter also asserts that ADA access will be blocked during the closures of Cooper street for special events The senior plans examiner who reviewed the plans Um, on our staff and who also has an expertise in accessibility Requirements indicated that closure of the street Does not close the sidewalk and therefore does not affect ADA access to the building Um, finally The appeal expressed a concern that Having Kaiser as a tenant in the building will affect the image of a prestigious office space for product ops And a concern that sharing an HVAC system with Kaiser will result in the transfer of germs From sick patients to product ops employees We consider these concerns to be more Leaning more towards a private landlord tenant issue On the spectrum between like a public nuisance versus a private issue However, we would certainly be supportive of Measures that would could be taken Within the building to help attenuate any potential spread of germs between business spaces We're definitely sympathetic towards that So in conclusion, we feel that the project does meet the findings of an administrative use permit staff recommends that the planning commission deny the appeal and uphold the zoning administrator's approval of the administrative use permit With the proposed modified conditions As of thursday afternoon, we received 17 letters of public comment from 16 people including one from the appellant Of the 17 letters three were four and 14 were against the project The major theme of concerns in the letters included traffic Parking and locating the business at a busy part of the downtown republic events are held This concludes my presentation and I'm available for any questions Thank you Are there any questions from commissioners of staff at this time? I have a question. Um, is Is there anybody here that that can speak to the parking district and how that works? I mean, are you able to to Explain some of that to us or it might be I talked with public works a little bit about it. Do you have a specific question about it? Um, I think the the question I have it just with the With the public concern around About the parking I there's just been comments around the retailers losing parking Because of a use like this coming into the parking district. So Is that uh, is that true or is that not? I mean, what are the details around? The parking that's available in the parking district And um, is there a surplus or is there not? I I don't know the answer to the specifically the availability in the parking district I did get some calculations from our transportation manager about The way they would basically calculate the parking requirement for this space They're considering it the previous use as office space which would have a parking requirement or what they call a parking deficiency of 55 spaces And Based on information that um, kaiser gave them on the number Of practitioners in the downtown area the parking requirement for Um, a medical office is based on the number of practitioners So based on the numbers that kaiser gave them it would um have Um a 30 space More intensive parking requirement than an office space And then what they would do is they would just Charge an in-loo fee that is for those 30 spaces But I can't speak to the number of spaces that are available. I don't know that answer So the parking deficit for an office space would be 55 is that what you said? And then it is and then are we And then it's an additional 30 Plus spaces on top of that is are we talking about that's what the that's what the total deficient load is Right, and I think the reason why we say deficient is because there's no on-site parking It's just a building. Um, so the the kaiser use would have the requirement of 85 spaces um, and that's based off of 17 practitioners Um, whereas an office used to be 55 spaces So they would be charged an in-loo fee for the difference of those extra 30 spaces Okay, thank you Any no other questions I was just quickly reviewing the order of business in the case of an appeal Um, uh, both the applicant and the appellant have an opportunity to address the commission prior to the public hearing Um, I'm not finding that they go in any particular order For that reason, I'm going to invite the appellant to make any statements. He may want to make to the commission Hi, I'm bob kegel And I'm the co-founder of product ops and I'd be across the hall from the proposed clinic So product ops is 10 years old, but our roots go back 30 years In this community like you we cared very deeply about the community and um, thank you for taking the time This evening to hear out my appeal and my responses to staff I come here to speak thoughtfully about the future of Santa Cruz We've given this considerable thought and we've spoken to some consultants and we as well to our downtown neighbors I'm asking you reject this permit because it'll cost unique disruptions to traffic and to parking And to the downtown retail neighbors Um, in addition to the appeal filed on april 15th I explained my concerns in more detail on may 29th if you have that you might want to look into that It goes into a lot more detail than we have time for tonight Uh first traffic, uh, I know everyone's tired of hearing about this But this will mean constant disruptive traffic downtown both the applicant and the staff both agree That staff's response predicts about 45 trips an hour just below the number that would have required a traffic study One consultant I spoke to put the number closer to 52 and another one put it at 58 That's hundreds of new trips per day Uh staff dismissed this increase essentially, uh as a clinic elsewhere would create Even more traffic, but that's really beside the point Downtown streets in general Some of them being one way and cooper street in particular are uniquely unsuited to thousands of new auto trips Per month some calculate as high as 12,000 Uh traditional traditional offices are four to ten an hour Which is a fraction of the traffic that a clinic will generate And with no traffic study we won't know until it's too late. So that's the first reason to say no Uh parking we've talked a bit about that. I know you're tired of it too But anywhere else in Santa Cruz, uh, this would have to provide a hundred new 108 new parking spaces So I have different data than what the staff had Instead we'll have to find out those those new spaces either on the streets or in the lots Can we find that maybe but the closest lots are usually full by 10 a.m City data shows that locust and cedar are filled up almost every week beyond capacity So Cal is often more more than 90 capacity. But remember these aren't commuters These are people trying to get in and out of appointments And they're more likely to have children or caretakers or not feel well enough to walk very far. So Using alternative transport for a bus and the like they may not be possible for them They may need accessible parking or a drop-off. That means more traffic and more emissions While people drive around looking for that ideal parking space Uh, especially when uh, the cooper street is closed, which it is about 20 days a year including tomorrow Which is every first friday plus all their other events. So that's the second reason to say no Incompatible use finally, this is a uniquely disruptive To the businesses in the building staff explain why they believe this clinic fits downtown, but that doesn't mean it fits here The downtown plan requires that administrative permits be compatible with existing uses and we believe this is not Technically according to the downtown plan. You could put a daycare center across the hall from a brew pub And I doubt very seriously whether that would be approved So today the upper floors of one tent cooper are Quiet traditional offices. We can't speak for the other tenants in the building But 40 of our employees use alternative transportation And the traffic that we do generate is mostly morning and evening commutes It's also a very highly secure building, which was which we chose on purpose With key card access and limited lobby traffic This permit would create a busy clinic with what I thought was 25 patient rooms plus a labs And uh, pharmacy how long is an appointment? Maybe 20 minutes That would mean a peak of about 75 patients an hour plus the traffic to the labs and the pharmacy Patients won't have key cards. So the clinic plans to install a A call button like in a big city apartment. So a receptionist on the fifth floor can buzz people into the lobby Not necessarily know who they are but along with their kids their caretakers and anyone else that might tailgate in In and out all day long wondering which floor their appointment might be on or where the bathrooms are or how to get to the pharmacy This is obviously disrupted to the existing uses and it sets a terrible precedent This is the kind of constant traffic That why most kaiser clinics are in most clinics in general are in dedicated buildings And if the tenants decide to move out The precedent set here that it makes it easy for the clinic to expand into the remaining empty suites Or even take over the building And do we really want a four-story medical tower in the center of our Our community center so cooper street is special and We the community have invested heavily in it most recently with a very successful mall project We should be very careful about the uses we permit there And it should fit seamlessly into cooper street not just downtown This project will create excess traffic monopolize the parking And disrupt the existing businesses. So I urge you to reject this permit I'm happy to answer any questions Thank you Do commissioners have any questions of the appellant at this time? See none Thank you. Thank you very much I'd like to invite the applicant to address the commission You'd like Good evening. My name is Sam Bajaj and I'm the chief operating officer for Kaiser Permanente Santa Cruz in San Jose And we appreciate the opportunity to be able to talk to you about our project today I think the the one key fact to probably reinforce is we've already been in downtown Santa Cruz for two and a half years We're at the locus street location With five provider offices and have been serving the community for the past two and a half years Our growth and unexpected growth actually over the past couple years is leading us to look for More space So it's the demand from the for medical services from Local residents in the area surrounding neighborhoods is what's driving this need But I think when we look at a lot of these impacts We have to look at as incremental and give impacts versus total impacts because some of these impacts are already included in The data that one would put one would pull today With each project we thoroughly evaluate all our options it takes us a while to do it and With this specific project We looked at real estate availability. We looked at timetables. We looked at our needs and We want you to know that we were very thoughtful in why we chose this site And in fact, it was the only site that matched the criteria that we're looking for in the in that area We started in early 2018 We ended up having a letter of intent at the end of 2018 So it took us 12 months almost to locate a suitable site And it'll take us 18 months further to develop the site And have it be ready for for youth for the intended use So we balance all these factors when we look at and including the disruption for the community Now with regard to mr. Kegel's objections You know we see his point we do and we've We've thoroughly looked at each and every objection What I think I anchor back to is the presentation by staff, which I feel was very thorough and and well done and thoughtful Rather than delving it to each single one I think I just referred back to that and just say we at the end of the day agree with the conclusion that they have reached That It this particular Project is not only consistent with the central business zoning It's also consistent with the general plan with the downtown plan And more importantly provides much needed medical access in this particular area. There's a pent up demand for medical services In an area that's well suited with public transit And one that is optimally located To serve the needs of not just the downtown Santa Cruz area, but also surrounding neighborhoods You know one thing as a as an employer at healthcare generally used is an anchor in any community So we take that very seriously We've been we know we're all over northern california and we've been and once we get in the community We stay and our intent is to work with our neighbors Because these end up being our members Our future members And so we're very mindful of again, like I said the disruption the ripples we cause when we enter a community So we're very thoughtful in how we do it So to that end we have worked and we asked for a continuance from the last time To this to this particular hearing we have tried to work with product ops to find a suitable solution in terms of relocating Um, unfortunately, we were not able to come to a mutually acceptable conclusion. Uh, which is what brings us here today Um, I think the It's important to note that we're I would consider as a different kind of healthcare provider If if you've experienced Kaiser you have family who's experienced Kaiser you know friends and neighbors who have experienced Kaiser our brand's wellness and A lot of our work is around preventative services So when we talk about people visiting the clinic It's folks, you know, I think the image is portrayed around like you've got people who've got infectious diseases showing up This is not an urgent care clinic. This is not an ed. This is a primary care clinic And dr. Orndorf will talk a little bit more about the details But I think it's important to understand that we also in addition to Uh folks in prevention we have folks showing up a mammograms diabetes screening flu shots things like that And at the same time we also promote a lot of our technology including virtual visits So approximately 10 percent of our visits within santa cruz county Uh and about 30 percent in kaiser permanente overall are virtual visits So this is where you don't even have to lead the comfort of your house You do a video visit with your provider on your cell phone for ease of use So, um, I think in in conclusion of my part, uh, I'd encourage you to review the application I think it meets all the requirements. We're we're committed to working with Our neighbors were committed to working with the county to move this forward Um, and we're happy to hear your thoughts and any questions you may have I'm going to turn it over to dr. Orndorf. You can talk a little bit more about the operations You Welcome. Thank you very much. Thank you commissioners for hearing us out tonight. We really appreciate it My name is dr. Joyce Orndorf. I am an internist by trade I am a primary care physician I have been with kaiser santa cruz since we came here in january of 2017 I am also a longtime Community member. I have been in santa cruz for almost 30 years at this point I wanted to talk a little bit about what A day to day a day in the life of our clinic here in santa cruz at our local street location I went ahead and took a look at my schedule to give an accurate idea of what's been going on. Yesterday I saw saw 19 patients Five of them were by telephone Three of them were by video. Yes, I am I play a doctor on tv And the rest of them I had a number of Over 80 percent of them were well-cared visits your routine physicals People telling me that they're here because I'm here for my physical. I'm here because my spouse made me I'm here because I need to follow up on this lab that lab. I want to know if I'm doing okay I want to know if I'm healthy. How can I be better? And yes, there were a few sick people that I saw yesterday. Two of them were back pains One of them I saw by video That's a day I looked over at some of the other Practitioners today. I went and looked at their schedules Lots of well-care visits. We actually see a number of patients from uc santa cruz Students some summer students they come in by bus and they're happy to Not have to get into their car and drive to our scott's valley or watsonville clinic to be able to get care for their Well-care or for their anxiety or for their women's check birth control, etc We are a primary care clinic Our brand is wellness and prevention We We're not an urgent care. We're not walk-ins. We're not sick people coming in. We're not an emergency room sm so said we Focus on wellness. We focus on prevention. We focus on elevating the Health of this community and I'm proud to be part of Kaiser Permanente downtown here doing this work. It's wonderful I'm happy to answer questions concerns that you may have with regards to The day-to-day traffic the day-to-day type of cases that we see I will mention do we see sick people? Well, yes, we are a medical center Is it the majority of our Day-to-day? No Not at all Thank you Thank you very much Are there any questions of the applicant? by commissioners at this time I've got a couple This one's for sam What other What are the clinics? What other clinics do you have in urban areas? So we have a number of clinics in urban areas depending on how you define urban So I would have defined downtown oakland as urban downtown san francisco is urban So we've got a number of clinics in sacramento And and not just a clinic but a number of them. So we won in mission bay one There's actually two off of van ness avenue in san francisco. So there's a variety of them So your your answer brought up another question. What would you consider this clinic then it would I mean Is it not an urban clinic then for you? We would Yeah, but considered urban And in those other clinics you mentioned What I mean, is there a Is there parking provided for those clinics? It's by the sorry but by But by your your company It's mixed so in in oakland because we just had a recent rebuild and because of the rules We were able to actually build a parking garage In san francisco downtown. There's no space. So there is no Patient parking provided in some of the clinics out there in mission bay We it's a newly developed area. You should probably know around the warrior stadium So the actually there were a couple of usf's down there genetics down there They already had a parking lot that we were able to contract with And make that work. So again, we found ways to make it work where we can and it just typically The distance of parking to your to the clinics, I mean, is it can you give me an understanding what a typical distance is Not sure I understand. Well, okay, so I think in this in this situation we're I mean, there's we had there's street parking obviously We know that there there's some street parking limited And then there's lots there are lots and in terms of the your current locust street location You have a lot that's right across the street from that location And in this proposed location There's not a garage that's within that same proximity. So I'm just curious in your other I mean, obviously in in Areas where it's not urban where like in scott's valley you have parking that's right there But in more of what you consider urban how what is the distance from your like where the majority of parking may take place to Where the clinic is located? so Relatings like to like so I'd probably relate this to the san francisco location, for example Um It's varied right because it's it's street parking It's a garage parking that's available a few blocks away just like in this case is Would be a block and a half maybe two blocks away from the current locust street location So it'd be probably about two two and a half blocks away from the parking lot You're referring to that's across the street from locust and then there's another parking lot down the way is Going east north From wanton cooper that has another parking lot there where I've parked So it really does vary so it's a bit of a difficult question to answer. That's why I was asking you Yeah, I just was I just trying to get a feel for You know proximity um I I really appreciate like the video visits because I mean I use those myself but um Regardless of having the video visits you still are proposing to build 25 I mean or how many what what is the what's the total number of um of Of rooms or not rooms but exam room. Yeah exam. So I think I would base it off for providers because that's what's the constraint Right, that's who sees you. So it's 13 providers I think it was misquoted as 17 earlier, but it's it's 13 providers in the application Okay, um and compare that to six that are currently now in downtown in the locust location Okay Okay, so oh six in the current location. Okay, got it Um, okay, could I add one more piece? Um, I think the other piece to consider is we talked about I think bob talked a little bit about visits the number of visits that are coming in Uh to to sort of calculate what the net impact would be on on the roads um By our calculations and I don't disrespect but we do this for a living by our calculations It's 42 up to 42 visits an hour But that's certainly the peak You wouldn't see 42 visits rotating hour after hour after hour again, you taking account of video visits telephone visits. Dr. Orndorff talked about that So just based off of that we provided the top end Because that's what we felt that the application called for But that's certainly not going to be 42 across the board and that's what you're going to see every hour after hour Okay, thank you That's yeah, um, thanks and along those lines. I was also wondering about um, kind of precedent in other urban office spaces In terms of the mixed use within the building and experience you may have had You know co coexisting with other Types of of businesses in buildings so we've um In watsonville Right, it's it's it's not vertical. It's horizontal, but within that area. We coexist with other tenants Uh in scott's valley. We've coexisted with other tenants Because those buildings had did have other tenants in them and still do You know one of the buildings we're going to be in the downstairs is going to be a lab um a processing lab So we have coexisted with other tenants in other buildings So this is not this is not new for us And that's why I said, you know If it were new the way we would approach it would be a little bit different We you know our intent is to be collaborative and we want to be collaborative. We want to find a path forward And we've tried our level best, believe me. We have but we just haven't been able to make it work So, you know, what I'd say is it's I can negotiate with you if you have a position other than no Right if your position just now There's no middle ground. There's nothing to like there's no place to find So, um that that's unfortunately where we felt that that's the position we got into Yeah, well, I guess and along those lines if any of these kinds of issues around And given that your primary care facility sort of experiences that other Co-habiting tenants or you know co-existing tenants Have had with your facilities if there have been kind of similar issues that have arisen Or how that's worked out, you know, these kinds of different uses And nothing that comes to mind. We've got several buildings in San Jose where we coexist with others And we work it out. We work it out. Again, it's you can you can work out anything other than no So as long as there's a position to work from we'll work it out Any other questions from the commission for the applicant? See none. Thank you very much. Appreciate your information And with that this is a public hearing And I would like to invite members of the public who Would like to speak to the commission to please Line up over here. We'll ask that you sign in And uh address the commission. You'll have three minutes Welcome. Thank you for coming. Thank you for having this event My name is Doug Erickson. I've been here for 40 years or so And love Kaiser what they've done for The community in terms of philanthropy and donations in the Kaiser arena Um, my brother in law is about to retire At 70 years old as a doctor at Kaiser great health care everything Hooding two I have two objections one The gentleman from Kaiser said uh for san francisco. There's no public parking Massive public parking garage right across the street. That's where I park when I go up there for My parents or friends and the Oakland is the same thing. They put in a new parking structure Massive really works well. You walk across the street. You're in the parking structure We don't have that here So the number one issue is parking And while I ride a jump bike or walk from the west side to hear Four times a week easily Don't use my car I know that when I go to the doctor and I go to dignity at least for now And I I schedule appointments Annual checkup Why does my shoulder blade feel broken? Oh, it's cracked. Um, why all uh, why do I feel so sick? and Every time I schedule it I go in there I have to drive in because I'm hurt because uh, the last time was I had the asian flew I'm not going to get on a public bus. I'm sorry. I'm not going to go out in public unless I have to I'm going to go directly to where I have to see them and in this case dignity on the west side And I'm there. So I just think that the Rec the um, the thinking behind You know, people are going to use public Transportation when they're not feeling well when they it's just it's just not it's ludicrous actually. So anyway, thank you Thank you welcome And could you please introduce yourself? I failed to ask that. Thank you for doing it. My name is francisco piva um For full transparency. I work in the building at 110 cooper street um I Oppose kaiser's plan to move into the building for two main reasons both of which were already stated tonight Uh, the first one is parking Parking is impacted in the closest nearest parking garage on front street um I don't as Doug said earlier before me every time I visit the doctor. I always drive there. I never ride my bike I don't walk Um, even when I live close to my provider. I still drive um Just on my way over here as I exited the building there were signs on the parking meter saying that Cooper street is going to be closed tomorrow for a special event. This happens numerous times throughout the years um And the uh, the second reason why I oppose this plan is um, I don't think it fits with the atmosphere of 110 cooper street. It's a lot of retail You have the ma Would I feel it would take away from businesses and retail units that operate within that space Thank you for taking the time to listen to me. Thank you for coming Good evening. My name is uh, chris codega 50 plus year resident of santa cruise um, so If we just uh talk about the elephant in the room, which is the parking and the access It's very interesting when you Look at kaiser's proposed project on soquel avenue. It's 150,000 square feet And they're proposing to build a 700 uh four-story 700 parking stall Parking garage across from it. So if you take that proportion of 21,000 divided by 150,000 square feet You get about a little over 14 and a half percent. So that would mean they'd need 101 spots Okay, so um, just to go real quickly if you look at pamp on mission street Um, they have 80 dedicated parking spots plus four disabled Uh cooper house zero Large patient drop off and pick up spot in front of the main entrance Cooper house will not have that Um Has good access for ambulance as medical providers and paramedics The cooper house is difficult access for emergency providers um Pamp on mission street Is a single user multi user downtown Cooper street and pacific avenue are there. It's a high tech entertainment community Which is uh abbot square and retail hub of santa cruise Cooper street is closed on many afternoons and evenings during the weeks Also just to go through this is that you know kaiser just started their search On uh in january of 18. It takes a while. I mean a lot of sites have gone by in that time There was possibly they could have taken the santa cruise county bank site on front street Where sports authority went out of business they could have taken that so sometimes things don't come up right away So I just think it's an incompatible use. I'm not against having a medical facility But the truth of the matter is this is that Most elderly patients who are a majority of the people who go to the doctor They're driven to their appointments by family or friends So there's going to be double parking. There's going to be everything and that is a fact And people are going to be looking for parking. There's not going to be any parking So The issue is as kaiser says that product ops has said no to them Well sounds to me that you know one of the first things that came out of that they said was that you know They want to relocate product ops. So they want to come in the building and relocate product ops for themselves if they're doing uh A virtual business and why do they need to be right downtown in such a big facility Most urban centers Medical centers have valet parking or parking structures right across I you should require them to have a parking study and watsonville and santa and scott's valley facilities have dedicated parking So I just think You know, it's it's going to impact the area greatly. We've put all this time and energy in abbott square And now we're changing the whole The whole area. Thank you for your comments. Thank you Is there anyone else who'd like to address the commission at this time? We welcome your comments if you are interested, please Uh, it would be helpful if you'd line up and prepare for that We are very interested in what you have to say Good evening commissioners Thanks for your service. My name is rubin helich. I'm with kushman and wakefield where commercial real estate services group I work for the j paul company. They own the building downtown Um, I I guess I'll make it as quickly as I can the the fear of the unknown is legendary I do know this that kaiser their experts and they also Must serve their members properly in other words Members that are not going to be able to access their the proper wellness health care at facility That's going to be a big problem. They're very bright. They've studied this And just as a local example down in watsonville There's a lot of concern about kaiser at the 20 000 foot location. Albeit. It is a different model. It's a strip center It's worked out quite nicely. The tenants are doing great businesses better When you get into the parking Discussion it's a pretty sticky widget. There's a lot of overlap a lot of duplicity wellness appointments might end up in Stores or restaurants or the rest so I would just caution you to get Too worked up about The unknown because the reality is they're spending a lot of time and money to do this the property owner j paul Very capable along in the tooth real estate developer and owner They know a lot about how to run buildings. They have over 7 million square feet and building more They're really a wonderful Asset to this community having them here as the stakeholder owning property and they've given this a great deal of consideration. So I must say the staff report. I thought was Very fair and proper so again the fear of the unknown It's normal and you hear it all the time up here. I just wanted to remind you here's yet another iteration Thank you Thank you for your comments Is there anyone else who would like to address the commission at this time See none. I will close the public hearing and return to the commission commissioners start all right um, I want to appreciate testimony from The applicant as well as the appellant. Um, let me ask a procedural question. Is there not a A requirement in the public hearing to give the appellant a chance to rebut or no, I was Yes, there is an opportunity to rebut by both the applicant and the appellant And we should do that now. Okay. I'll hold my comments until that Thank you for that. I've been scratching through the bylaws. So I would like to invite first the applicant and then the appellant to rebut I meant the appellant first. I'm so sorry I usually jot down order before you I don't know if as much as a rebuttal or not, but Um, the issue isn't about kaiser or how great a company they are or how great j paul is they're both wonderful I mean, I don't have a bad thing to say about either of them The issue is if you look very closely at what this area looks like you've got a Couple of one-way streets at the end of it. It's about a hundred yards long And you're gonna put no matter what the number is no matter how much we argue about the specifics It's a lot of traffic that isn't there now And the reason they're picking this building is because we don't have any other real estate At the time they picked it now there's two other places That are going to be available three if you count with the lawler project But you've got part of the galeria. You've got utc If we got really creative they should be in the cvs location as far as i'm concerned that has all the parking you want CVS is the number one Crime place in town the police are called there more than any other place. It would be perfect for them to be there and I don't have I I couldn't get the data in time But anecdotally the only other place similar to this as opposed to san francisco and oakland and san jose Is pasadena and they had a four-story building there kaiser moved into an existing place all the other tenants left and kaiser took the rest of the building And that's the issue that for me is like i'm I and it's not a I'm trapped i'm in a i'm in a lease and You know to say I was a position of no is not true it ended up being no But I asked my team and they said look we like looking at the therese We don't want to look at the air conditioner units on top of the other buildings The management person that would be responsible for the ti's for the next Seven or eight months is in charge of business development. So he would have to stop And go supervise this which harms my business. So This isn't about the unknown. These are knowns that none of this is questioning You know what it is. It's a change in the venue. It's a change in a significant amount of traffic Everybody's talked about parking endlessly. There's not much there. So It's a land use issue. I don't know that I would consider santa Cruz quite as urban as I would san francisco and oakland My rebuttal Thank you. Thank you very much and would the applicant like to provide a rebuttal at this time So that's why I was sitting there and I thought about your question a little bit more about urban areas And for some reason I just locked it in northern california, but bob brought up southern california. So We are in other areas Washington dc is a class example We're in a building that has no parking. It's co-located with the security and exchange commission So when you talk about security, right, you got sdc attorneys with probably some of the highest most sensitive information Business information we share the building with them In that building are is urgent care 24 7 It's got pediatrics specialty care primary care Again a different cohort of the folks coming there a sicker cohort than what we would expect at this clinic I think the question was brought up about our project the 160 000 square feet that we're Looking to develop up in live oak area um The parking that is associated with that is actually driven a lot by the rules and regulations that were required to develop And because we're able to develop we are developing it And it's a specialty care building. It's not a primary care building. So the type of patients coming there are different I just want to put that color out there a little bit Thank you. Thank you We'll return to the commission Thank you, uh, and thank again, I want to thank everybody for their testimony the the last comment that's really stayed in my mind was that Is the reminder that this really is a land use issue? and that's You know, it comes down to what from me what's appropriate land use in the downtown and It's a parking district what we know about a parking what I know about a parking district is that It's the city's responsibility to provide adequate parking and the city All the uses in the downtown Are chipping in to assist in paying for that parking But the notion that there's a parking problem which there may be what that would Be to if that's what drove decisions is that there could be no more development in the downtown area And yet I think the city council and this commission has talked about the need for a variety of uses in the downtown They're all going to have parking demands. Most of them are not going to be able to provide sufficient parking And anybody who who follows city politics knows that one of the hottest issues right now Is around whether we need another parking garage or not And there are people who say we don't even know there may be a lot of demand because people should get out of their cars And ride bus ride the bus or ride the bike. So I think I don't see the the the parking issue as Good justification for not approving this project. I also think I've had a When reading over the staff report reading over the letters listening to the testimony It's like again the purpose of the downtown is to bring people into the downtown that's what the whole purpose of the downtown plan is and It was helpful to me to get a better sense of what kind of a clinic it's going to be because I'm not a kaiser Patient but when pamphers downtown I used to go to the pamph clinic and it was a regular clinic and I would ride my bike there I would end up doing other things in the downtown While I was down down and I think they're you know, I think one of the things we talk about in terms of parking demand is shared parking and I think that the the notion of people coming Coming to the clinic then going and doing something else downtown I think is very likely to happen. There will be people who that's not the case for people who are really sick will Get their prescription and go to CVS or get somebody to go to CVS and go home But a lot of people will end up being downtown and I'm thinking about The Abbott square and the impact that it might have on Abbott square And I guess I disagree with the testimony that it would be Detrimental to Abbott square from my perspective. It could be very helpful to Abbott square There are a number of businesses that have gone into restaurants that have gone in that have closed because there are Insufficient numbers of customers and I remember I participated a little bit in the planning for Abbott square And one of the central issues was how are we going to bring people into the downtown? That was and they have all sorts of events to try to do that And from from my perspective having a wellness clinic next door Could very well Be a positive Have a positive effect on the downtown So I I'm willing to support the staff recommendation. I thought the staff report was well done and Provided an explanation Yes, there could be problems with pull-up parking on Cooper street. We'll have to see there are days when it's closed I think the idea that you know people walk people walk from parking garages to their to their clinics as well And some of these parking garages and the big facilities probably are far further away than the parking garage is downtown I don't deny that parking is a problem But my sense is that it's the city's responsibility if parking is Parking demand is sufficient to to demand additional parking spaces then the city should be providing those parking spaces Um, so those are my comments. I am willing to support the staff recommendation. Thank you um I'm completely believe that um A clinic or medical clinic should be downtown um, I do have I But I do have some issues with with this particular location Uh in this application um, I think the part the parking I mean it's um I understand the the parking from the parking count Um situation and the and the idea is that we're is is from a From the city's perspective, you know, you know, we're trying to bring As many people downtown as we can if that means building more parking structures. That's what we do Um, and you know, that's that's part of what these fees that go into the parking district are for is to to build those structures Um and to also maintain them um the One of the concerns I have about this particular location is the is the distance in the proximity of parking of large amounts of parking That that can make it to um this location um I think the uh The fact that cooper street is um Really part of the it's I see less of a street and more of a square I mean it's part of Abbott square and and and as as it was stated today Um by testimony that it does it gets shut down multiple times in the year Um, and I think that that that's just going to create additional issues with access now. I do um what you know in terms of uh, ruben statement, um, I I I I I totally agree. I think kaiser um Is certainly thinking these things through uh for their own business. I think um, they don't want to create something That's uh, that they're that their clients are not going to be happy with or that their clients are not going to go to um, so I I believe that they're putting in the effort and I believe that they really think that this is a good location for them um, but I don't necessarily think that from My perspective, I don't think it's the right location for the city to have the clinic. I I think um and like I said To start I think having a clinic downtown is a great idea. I think um, you know driving more traffic or driving more, you know getting more people downtown is great It's gonna it will help uh and live in the city um, but those but but that is the the um the access and the proximity of parking to that is an issue for me I think um the other I think traffic In a way is I I think that is potentially a problem just at this location like if it was if if this if uh if this application was at the gallery uh um Or you know it you know somewhere else uh that that was even Nearby but just kind of pushed off to the side a little bit Where it wasn't affecting cooper street because I just think cooper street is a is a difficult street As it is. It's a very tight street. I it's it's um and it and I think it's difficult to navigate for somebody that's in the event of vehicles dropping off patients To go to the you know they get dropped off at the front door It the only way and I am I think the only way it works is is you have to come from pacific avenue and turn on cooper street to to drop someone off a cooper and Coming the other direction from front Then you're across the street and and I just and because it's only two lanes street. I have concerns that um That it's gonna be it's gonna cause congestion there. Um so So I think from from my perspective, um, I'm um Not in support of the application. I don't know exactly how to say it with the appeal piece, but um Uh, but that that's my that's that's where I'm sitting right now Okay, you have any comments commissioner greenberg. It's okay Um, so yes, thank you very much for the testimony on both sides and this is a this is a challenging Um decision before us. Um, and I hear what my fellow commissioners are saying and also really respectfully have to say um And I think that um I uh believe that You know as commissioners we're trying to think about planning for the downtown in relation to the city as a whole Uh in relation to the region um, and I am um really sympathetic to the idea that you know this issue of traffic thinking about that in terms of the street the neighborhood surrounding this proposed clinic as well as You know, what would otherwise be generated? Um as a result of building it elsewhere Um, and as somebody who's a member of pamph and thinking about how fortunate I felt when the downtown facility was built I live on the west side Um, and then I could go to the west side or I could go to the downtown and when I have to go to the main clinic You know, it can be an hour, you know for me in terms of commuting to get to that clinic depending on the time of day um, and that we should You know think about the the value of the density that we have in the downtown invest in that density consider the fact that we have You know a parking district there. I think it's likely we'll need In addition to you know more efficient transit, which can be generated by having more density We will have to have more parking In some fashion whether it's you know building up in the Trader joe's parking lot or whatever it's going to be but there needs to be in that region You know potentially in the future more more parking, but that's something I think as commissioner shifrin was saying that this kind of a need would would generate um I'm sympathetic to the point that there might be other adjacent or nearby sites That would you know in the in the near term um be be uh be easier to to absorb at the same time I Hear what what folks are saying in terms of the studies that have been done Uh the efforts that have been made to find other other sites and the fact that This is um a primary care versus an urgent care which the west side You know site for pamphels and so forth and the different kind of parking required for that kind of a site um Is also you know something that has helped me to think about this So it's it's perhaps more likely that people will be traveling via other means given the fact that a good proportion of folks are not going to be dealing with with urgent needs And so, uh, I and finally I would say The idea of kind of multiplier effects for businesses locally And the idea that having a lot of folks who are not simply working there and going out for lunch But coming at different times of the day to Use, you know to potentially visit the ma and the businesses in in Abbott Square And the retail uh on on pacific Could likely have a beneficial, you know economic effect for the downtown So for all of those reasons While I realize these are going to be ongoing conversations around around parking I would support this proposal Thank you I uh I would also like to thank everybody for coming And for thinking about this carefully and also for making it very clear that downtown has a parking problem I'm not sure if it was completely clear before Um And but also I want to just say it does seem like we are as a community really embracing kaiser and seeing the benefits that they bring To our community. I'm not a kaiser member myself, but the um, I know that it's it's very highly valued And um people where I work were very excited when it became an option locally Um, I I think for me um in recognizing the complexity of using a downtown Site like this. It's not easy. It's going to require very active problem solving But it is a very vital community need And we can see that by how quickly kaiser outgrew their existing site on locust street, which is pretty tiny But you know coming into there was um was very welcome the number of people who are Who can walk In order to go to the doctor that I hear that all the time that people That it's just something that is is really really appreciated Um, and you know adding You know doubling in size is certainly going to have Uh, some impact Um, I also support this project at this site. I think it's not perfect I think that um in trying to Provide the kind of vital Downtown area that we need It's not going to be perfect and what's going to come out of an imperfect situation is more creative solutions um Site like this downtown doesn't consider parking in the same way. It's not going to be the same as Um, any as a facility anywhere else Anywhere in either the city or the county or most areas outside of downtown watsonville And it's because of the unique natures of downtown um, what I hope is that Uh, there can be a really active engagement of trying to find a way to Work as well as can be done Into our downtown because we love our downtown. That's one thing that I get here is we all love our downtown Um, and I appreciate all of the businesses. I certainly appreciate the perspective of of the appellant I also am in support of the application and I would um at this time if there's more comments You're welcome to make them. I just like to make a couple of More comments one has to do with the drop-off Most of us probably spend a lot of time downtown. I know I do and I actually spend a lot of time in avid square And it seems to me that The we've talked as if the only drop-off would be on cooper street. But in fact letting people off on Pacific letting people off on Front um would not be that unusual. It's a half a block. It's it's a half of a small block away the other um issue that I wanted to mention is that Since this is a land use issue It isn't our responsibility to be talking about other sites. I don't think the question is does the application Meet the requirements of the general plan doesn't meet the requirements of the zoning ordinance Looking towards a staff report to make that Case if that's their recommendation. I think in this particular situation They have met the case whether there might be a better site whether there's something else could have been Done elsewhere. That's really not before us. What's before us is this project doesn't meet the requirements of The city's regulatory system and I think it does Therefore, I would like to move that We approve the staff recommendation denying the appeal and Supporting the zoning administrators approval of the project I hear a second a second It's been moved and seconded is there further discussion Can I I'm sorry. Um, I could I just get a little bit of clarification. Um, are you proposing to move? With the conditions approved by the zoning administrator or the The proposed modified conditions by staff. It's the proposed modified conditions. Thank you for clarifying that I was thinking that as you were speaking Is that clear to everybody? That's the that's the That's what was request before the recommendation before us tonight. So I was moving that recommendation Okay, could we have a roll call vote please commissioner shifrin. Hi Conway. Hi Nielsen. No greenberg. Hi With that the appeal is denied Thank you very much Thank you all. Um, you might want to explain the appeal procedure if they want Uh, if the uh, I I think that he can Okay, I'm sorry. I wasn't on my toes on that And we do thank you all for coming and we welcome our vibrant community conversations. We're not quite done with our meeting And if you could carry them outside, we would appreciate that So ryan, I think we'll be looking for you to help us conclude Or is which of you is going to be staying and serving as staff as we conclude the meeting We're looking for information items. Nobody Okay, um, I'm seeing no information items. Okay. Thank you very much No by no means you're very welcome to stay It's just that we prefer to And I see Our planning director Timely entering the chambers Did you have any information items? Yes, good afternoon planning commissioners leave out there the planning director I just wanted to give you all a heads up that on the next council meeting August 13th. We will be discussing the The council retreat that happened Um a saturday the 22nd of june, I believe it was um, and One of the things that we'll be talking about is priorities for Our advanced planning divisions work plan. So you may want to tune into that You may want to take take a look at the staff report that will be available next thursday Can I ask a question? um at one of our earlier meetings, it was mentioned that the um The item on the corridor study can consistency between a general plan and zoning ordinance would be coming to the commission In august. Is that no longer the case? That is not the case at this point what we did at the um At the council retreat was kind of a straw poll um, because we've got uh, many things on our advanced planning work plan and um Many things in the queue that we haven't Even brought forward and all of them Are important They can really make a difference in the community. They can improve the quality of life and or improve the environment and so forth and so As part of that straw poll the the council did not prioritize that item So it's still on our list But what we're attempting to do at this Next meeting with the council is really to have them Bless our next six months we have um We have Some preliminary feedback But it really was just kind of a on the spot straw poll And we also have a number of items where council gave specific timelines of when to report back on things and so we've put those into We will be putting them into a calendar for the council to consider and We'll say if if you want to move some things forward earlier, that's fine Here are the implications in terms of pushing other items back So that's that's part of the exercise since the uh Council is going to have this meeting before our next meeting Would it be possible for staff to send the commissioners a copy of the staff report? So if any commissioners had some concerns about issues they could go to the council meeting without having to Track it down on the they're they're probably longer agenda Sure. Yeah, we can we can let you all know that uh when it's available to be posted next thursday And we'll let you know what item number it is and send a link. It's okay. Thank you easy to do Okay, good. Thank you Thank you all. Okay. Anything nothing else coming items. Okay. We've had uh, you know the Council was off in july so no other reports from council at this point Thank you for coming over. There are a few other things on the council agenda, but that's uh, sort of one that's certainly of interest There'll be also the rental housing data collection Is coming before them something that you saw the high street 517 high street that street vacation will be on the agenda and Those are those are the things that are okay relevant to your is there a heads up on upcoming commission agendas the next commission meeting is the 15th and that will have 190 west cliff that is the parking lot across from the dream end and there will also be a reappointment of the new ad hoc subcommittee for the planning commissioners who attend the community meeting That just so you're aware We have not forgotten about the The clarifications that you all have requested We have that report ready Given the length of the various agendas at the council meetings that hasn't been presented We currently have it slated for the second meeting in august. So we are expecting some feedback from the council very soon It's been an agenda management thing with as you've likely seen Meetings going from 10 in the morning till late in the evenings. And so That is it hasn't been forgotten and we'll get that back to you Great. Thank you. Anybody have any questions? I don't have a question. I have a statement. I will be absent for the august 15th meeting Okay, as well. I okay Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay, and thanks for coming over Are there subcommittee advisory body oral reports on at this time? With that this meeting is adjourned. Thank you very much. Thank you