 Welcome to the Advocates, where topical issues are discussed in a no-holds-barred manner. In other words, we call a speed by its name. My myth is, with the insensitivity of the federal government towards persons with disabilities, mostly in relation to the COVID-19 situation and the relief funds, Baba Sholaz is saying we should stop with the unnecessary hailing of our politicians over bare minimum. Kayode is talking about the injustice of the Nigerian justice system. Sholaz, who makes her debut, takes us through the legal issues with e-commerce and finally Tolu explains the cancel culture to us. Sit back, the panellists are here to present your Sunday dose of provoking thoughts after this break. COVID relief funds persons with disabilities. Back in July of this year, it was announced that the federal government would begin data collection to identify people with disabilities to benefit from the post-COVID relief funds. Chris Aber writes in his article, the Executive Secretary National Commission of Persons with Disabilities, NPWD, in a press conference announced the plan of federal government through Federal Ministry of Humanitarian Affairs, disaster management and social development to transfer cash to 50,000 persons with disabilities as COVID-19 intervention fund. He stated that the Ministry will implement the program through the commission which would start identifying PWDs to benefit through a data capturing and thereafter the cash would be transferred to them electronically. Now, fast forward to the evening of Saturday, August 14th and parents with children who have special needs like myself received notification that we should come to Teslan Balogun Stadium Lagos by 9am with our special needs child for data capture. Immediately, I had serious reservations. Firstly, the use of the abbreviation PWDs already pointed to the lack of consideration. They are actually real human people and not an association or entity to be abbreviated. Secondly, the federal government and its associates wanted all parents in Lagos to bring their children with disabilities to this one location. One location in the whole of Lagos. As far as I'm aware, COVID is still here and so is the Delta variant. I could already imagine the scene, rowdy crowd, no social distancing and no organization. There was no way I was going and putting my child who has Down syndrome and a heart condition at risk. But I have that choice because I come from a place of privilege. For some parents, they had no choice but to go in chance of gaining access to crucial funds to aid their families given the devastation of the past 18 months. I feel for these mothers and fathers who take their children with disabilities to the stadium. The government did not even consider how people would get to and from the location. Given for many, mobility is a massive issue. Why not decentralize the exercise to the local level so that access would be much easier? Instead, these families and especially the children had to endure more trauma. In my opinion, this exercise was utterly reprehensible. From 9am to beyond 10pm, these families were there and many unfortunately unsuccessfully in the exercise. On top of the lateness meant mosquitoes and hunger. As far as I know, all they were given was pure water and gala to sustain them. My heart and the heart of many of our special needs parents and advocates broke that day and many tears were shed. Why? Because it was a stark confirmation and physical form of what we already suspected. Our special needs children are not considered valuable as full human beings. The federal and legal state governments do not have sincere intentions and frankly do not truly care for the state of our disabled people in this country. That is all I am lip service. If there was true will behind this exercise, it would have been decentralised for easier access and consideration for those the funds are actually for. That corruption and wickedness is so bad to the point that they are literally stealing from the mouth of babes. So... I... you see lately... You see I'm stuttering but I don't even know which words to use first. First of all, before we go into the children with special needs and let's look at the idea of grouping people at one place. And it goes back to that attitude we have as a people and that attitude is we like to be quote-unquote being charged. We want to be, yeah, the mizaka, I'm the one doing it. So that's why nobody... I can't imagine how, like you said, all over Lagos you're bringing people to one place. During the pandemic. During the pandemic. Even without the pandemic. I want to learn from what happened during the immigration recruitment years ago where people died and now you're bringing children with special needs. They don't have total control, they need help of someone and all that. And you see that's the same thing we do with our retirees. When we say 80-year-olds, 70-year-olds come for recapture almost at a point where we have to tell mom, leave it, it's not a big deal. So that one on its own is an issue that we need to trash both in government and outside government as a people. Now the idea of addressing these children, like I like what you said, that it's not an association where it's okay, all these people, these are our children, they are human beings. They have the only thing is they have needs. And even in other climes, in spite of the needs, some of these children go ahead to be very influential and resourceful for the nation. But do we even have, okay, let's even say the capturing is done. What plans do we have for these kids? That for me is the question. What plans do we have? How do we, okay, we just capture them, give them how much? Like I said, gala and water, so... It's not sustainable. It's the biggest problem. I mean, what you're talking? In my head, I was just picturing a meeting room. Where human beings that have brains that function have sat down to say, we want to deploy an intervention. Right, these guys have brains. They're thinking, they thought, okay, it's a great idea. Oh, there are people with disabilities. Oh, let's help, right? I'm sorry, they've called them that, right? Then when you decided you made that decision, did you now ask yourself, how do we execute this? Like thinking people. You know, my problem is also thinking. It's a thinking problem. You know, did you ask yourself, or there's a pandemic, did you ask yourself on the average, how many people will come to this place? Did you ask yourself when they get there, what is the process for accreditation? Did you ask yourself, what's the process for the actual accreditation to registration and then to the actual disbursement? I mean, this is not rocket science, guys. They leave that difference. This is not rocket science. And what about for the welfare while they're there? Well, exactly. I mean, it's, you're trying to give money to what? 5,000 people, 200,000 people, you don't even know. I mean, it's ridiculous. So I mean, I think it was a thinking problem because in my head, I'm thinking, this was probably a commissioner somewhere or a governor somewhere or a minister somewhere. These people went to school now. Who, unfortunately, might have meant well. Yes. That's the whole reason, that thing. Unfortunately, it might have good intentions. Oh, let's cater for this, you know, the children with special needs and all that. But I don't know about the implementation. You don't know about the implementation. Because for me, it reads more as a PR exercise that went back. That's what I say, I don't know about the intentions. To be honest, because who did they consider? Who did they talk to? Who did they go and meet? Who are the stakeholders with this? I do know that they trained about 70 people from, I think it's called the NIPPD or it's an association, I think, of intellectual people with disabilities. And they've trained 70 people who are disabled, some of the data capture. But that's the only thing, like community-wise, I think that was done. Really, if this is meant to be something that's happening over 36 states, it's also something the federal government has controlled over and the state governments will obviously be implementing. However, the actual work, I don't think anybody thought about it. The actual people. Yeah, the people. The thing is, they add good intentions. I want you to assume. Yes, yeah. Absolutely. Assume. It's okay to assume. I don't think I'm going to say that. I want you to add good intentions. But the thing is, what would have been, the solution would have been to share this between the local government. Thank you. I think I stay in Ali Mosho and I close to Ali Mosho. A child with disabilities has challenges with even moving to that location. So that's really the first thing. It's a mobility problem. You bring me to somewhere close to where I can access these resources. And that's what makes it difficult for me. Or even go to their schools. I don't know what Baba Alemah is thinking back in the UK. I know your case is different in the UK. You guys are well. You have a structure. I was going to say, let me come from another angle that I think it's funny that in 2021, the federal government of Nigeria still believes that every child with disabilities is poor. You know, because if you start down and thought, the best thing you can do is to share money. I mean, this throwing money at problems is the reason why poverty levels in Nigeria is increasing. And you know, that's not killing ourselves. Nobody have good intentions. These guys are going to pay off all these funds and justify it with this fruitless exercise. It's very annoying to see that even despite all the criticism for this conditional cash transfer, you know, schemes that have been in the midst of this, Nigeria has continued to do worse, you know, on the poverty index. But yeah, they still think that the only solution they can provide for people living with disabilities during COVID is to give them share 10,000, 10,000 and a half of them. I mean, if 20-year-olds don't think the 10,000 and a half have done much, made the difference to, or to even the poorest kids. You know, it's always like, it's always like, you know, we're always, we keep doing the same things. Even when we've seen that, it didn't work for normal people. And then now we're going to do the same thing again. A really, really good point, especially in terms of throwing money at things. We actually have to tackle the problems and it's not just about throwing money. So, up next is actually Babazala. Stay with us. Ha! How we must stop hailing politicians. A politician builds a makeshift wooden bridge across a wide gutter and invites dignitaries to a fanfare to commission the contraption. Probably erects a signboard there with his name boldly on it. Stashes pictures on social media. I have not subbed anyone, honestly. We applaud, we hail the politician because we remember suddenly that there has not been a project like this in the area for 50 years. This is the first we say conveniently, forgetting that this is the year 2021. The former students of a public school put funds together to build a toilet for the school. They invite the commissioner or permanent secretary of the Ministry of Education in the state to commission it. The government official shows up proudly to cut the tape of the toilet in the school that they are paid by us to run, but that has now ended up having a basic or compulsory facility such as a toilet built by private citizens. The people who pay for the toilet hail the commissioner for taking time out of their busy schedule to attend. I have concluded that there is something seriously wrong with the Nigerian public office holder. But the disease is not half as bad as that which is plaguing the Nigerian people. Yes, the suffering masses. We complain about how hard and bad things are on a daily basis. Yet, when the time comes to take a stand, we are the chorus leaders and the applause commanders. We just love it. It's almost as if it is part of some custom or tradition to show gratitude to ineffective public office holders. It is as if we disagree the public officials or us and by us, I mean their bosses. Yes, we are the bosses. The citizens value for our money. These people actually all swore to an oath. One, they disregard almost only per second basis. Our politicians in Nigeria are some of the highest paid in the world and I mean legally and illegally. Yet, when they embezzle billions of Naira and give us of standard rules, bridges and other infrastructure, captains of industry and traditional leaders will line up to sing their praises. Now, let me take you somewhere else to the UK where the UK government spent an estimated 500 billion pounds just to support UK citizens during the COVID-19 pandemic. Nobody clapped for UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson. In fact, all they have done is question his methods, policies and preparedness. Boris Johnson rides in a two car convoy. Nobody clapped for that. He sometimes goes to work or about his duties in public transport. Nobody clapped. Roads are built and commissioned without fanfare, no foundation lanes ceremony or ground breaking. Nobody clapped. Now imagine this was Nigeria. One would begin to think the people who live in these countries are absolutely heartless or ungrateful. But there is a simple reason they don't clap. It is because there is no reason to clap. Public servants are servants after all. In fact, I see them more as paid slaves. They are being funded by taxpayer funds to serve their masters, the people. So why should the masters clap for their servants when they do a job they are handsomely compensated to do, not to talk of them drooling over the most mundane achievements? A governor awards the construction of a six-kilometer road to a contractor who is his friend or crony. At an exorbitant value, the contractor does a shabby job, but by the grace of God, God with small letters, just manages to complete the project. The governor and the contractor share the profits, but the masses who get it badly built road are the ones who organize praise and worship sessions for the governor for building a food park where an expressway should be. Nigeria is still way off the mark in terms of development, and this is not by accident. Public hospitals and schools and ISO, institutions of deep shame, I call them. This healing of public officials has to stop today. Ah. Absolutely. Well, I don't even know what to say. I don't know why. Let's take a minute to take you there. Yes, I know, right? Why was the commissioner there to cut ribbon for toilets? To tell you. There's no need for you to go there. Why did we invite him? Yes, someone invited him. Why did we invite him? For toilets or for cutting a ribbon for a window at a local government office. Or a wooden bridge. Oh, the wooden bridge. So I think it's a fundamental problem, is that we don't understand the meaning of the word service. Or servant. Or servant. I don't say servant. You know, if they say servant, they won't show up. No, but public servants. If they say public servant, they won't show up. Public servants. You know, service. The word service is derived from the word serve. And to serve means to be the servant. It brings you back to the word servant. If you understood that fundamentally, that this person is here to serve me, you know, then it changes the game instantly. But you see, for us, it's more of a game of, you know, I'm here to help you. It's that thing we're talking about, the Mesa complex. So I've built a road. I have a right to put a billboard. And then say road constructed by. Sir, is this what you're paid to do? By the way, it's public service. Even if you're not paid enough, that's the whole point. But I think it goes back to why people go into politics. It's not to serve. It's not here. It's not to serve. Because they know that the structurally is made to go and make money. That's why you go and make your money. You go and make your name. You're not there to serve. You're not there to do good. You're there to enrich yourself and your colonies. So we also need to understand that, that that is actually the lay of the line. It's great to say, oh, we're meant to be public servants, public service, but let's look at the reality on ground. That's not how it's looked and perceived as, right? General public perceives it as his excellency, her excellency, excellency of course. I really despise having to say his excellency. What have you done that is excellent? Yes. What is excellent about it? You see, OK, you go. OK, I would say that if you go to some local governments where you young youth core members serve, you hear about some youth core members who build bridges using their own allowee. As they use their $23,500. I don't know what they're paying now, yes. But they use something that leads to, to build bridges, to offer free medical care. So you're wondering, so why do we have leaders? There's a local government chairman, exactly. And there's a governor in that state. And there's a councilor in that state. Exactly. And those people earn, you know. And more money. But you see, I want to look at it from this angle. You see, we're talking about the government or the politicians. I'll even say, let's leave the politicians alone. Why? Now, let's look at this. An average Nigerian now, you go to a shop by the roadside to buy something. The woman is there busy talking on phone. And she's telling you, I'm busy. Just wait, just wait. And there are other shops there. And you see a Nigerian there waiting for the woman to finish talking. The question I always ask is, why won't you just move on to the next shop? Let her know that if you're not serving me well, I will move to another person and have an option. Service, that's what I'm saying. So what I'm saying in essence is that, that is what would bring into politics. You see, we've been so battered over the years that we've lost our sense of demanding for rights. Absolutely. So now we just take anything goes. We are like a man that gives somebody money. OK, hold this for me. When I need it, I'll come for it. Then you go there and say, oh, your money I've kept it somewhere, but I can loan you money. Then you keep taking the loan, taking the loan. And it's interest, and it's interest. Whereas this guy is keeping your money for you. Is that thing, you know that syndrome? What's that syndrome where people? Stockholm syndrome. Stockholm syndrome. You know, I use this example all the time. You know, let's say you're married to a man that is an abuser, right? And he just abuses you emotionally, physically. And then never comes home. You know, the day he comes home at 7 PM, you say, ah. Thank God. Or come at midnight to say thank God. He even came home today. You call your friends and he came today. Is that Stockholm syndrome? Is that what is so battered? We don't even understand. We don't even know what our rights are. Someone builds a road, we heal them. Why? That's your job. And it's even so sad that you see some commissioner, you say the governor is so ready to work. Excuse me, that's why we voted him there. He's telling me he's ready to work. So, I mean, he cares about you. Hello. This applauding, not even of mediocrity. I think, Baba Shala, you've been very kind. Yeah. The applauding of everything's substantive. As long as it's finished, though. Or even, you don't even need to finish. There are so many uncompleted elephants' projects. It's not about the person that can do anything. So we're so apathetic as a population that for them, if nobody's holding them accountable, why should they bother to hold themselves accountable? That's it. The interesting thing is, I don't think anybody even measures politicians' performance against their promises. I mean, people would just kind of like, wait for the guy to show up in your committee, erect a bubble, commission it, you go there, you clap, you say, ah, the governor has trapped. We never had a bubble in my committee. We don't say he promised us X, Y, and Z, and he's only done A. And that is not good enough. I think I always use my uncle as an example. When he was chairman of the legacy health management board, that he not only refurbished hospitals, but insisted that any member of his family, including his wife, who was Irish, had to use those same public hospitals. He said, because how can I tell the public to use a hospital that my family are not using? You've got to show that confidence. It's that kind of service that is missing in Nigeria. When people are ready to put themselves and show that, look, I've done this bit of work and I have confidence that it works. Well, I think that's a massive, massive point. And we could go all day on it. The injustice of Nigeria's justice system is next with Oluwakao Day. Stay with us. A country can only develop whether it's equity, property, and accountability, or at least a semblance of it. Globally, there is no executive that is incorruptible. People who are saddled with the responsibility of managing state resources are likely to abuse the privileges extended to them. From America to Zimbabwe, everywhere capitalist thrives, there is bound to be an abuse. How then do these economies thrive? How do they manage an image of property and accountability? The reason is simple, the judiciary. In order to run a successful capitalist economy, you need an active judiciary, a judiciary that is functional, independent, and autonomous, effective, and efficient. Simply put, we need a judiciary that works. Can the Nigerian judiciary be said to be active? At the mention of the judiciary and average Nigerian cringes, we shudder at the thought of standing in the witness box, to an average Nigerian facing trial is as good as being charged to court, or being condemned. There is no relationship between the judiciary and the people. The people do not feel the judiciary is there for their good, no trust. This makes it impossible for an average citizen to take someone to court, let alone take the government to court. When the executive goes wrong, we commit them to the court of God. In heaven, rather than the court of justice on earth, because as the saying goes, any tiakbe nioka, akpa alonoka, that means anyone you cannot handle, there is God there who can handle such a person for you. We know how much influence the executives have on the judiciary. We accuse the executive of controlling judicial cases and the outcome of these cases lend credence to our accusations. But wait a minute, how many cases are prosecuted smoothly at the judiciary? Even cases between two individuals drag on forever. Case in sight is Evans, the kidnapper. He's been on for about four years. This is a case that everybody in the nation is interested in. No known politician or no known political influence, no tribal buyers, no need for regional balance in this case. Everybody wants one and same thing, justice. But it's taking four years. And during this period, Bill Cosby was charged, sentenced and his charges reviewed. Judge Floyd's killer cop was tried and sentenced. Oscar Pistorius was charged, tried and sentenced. Sam Sinceresia was tried, sentenced, he challenged his case at the court of arbitration for sports and got a lesser charge. Ash Puppy's arrests, it was charged and the case has begun. And I'm sure it will conclude before the end of Evans' case. A case that has no political twist, no pressure from the executive arm has taken four years. Does justice have a will in Nigeria? Does it grind at all? And there are so many cases as such in Nigeria. Cases drag for years until both the appellant and the respondent get tired of the case and stop showing up in courts. Is this an indication that no arm of government works in Nigeria, which way Nigeria? I think we almost acknowledge that there's two justice systems. One for the wealthy and even upper middle class and one for the poor man, the poor masses. Because you have so many people who are, should we say, have been really innocent or their crimes are so little by something like stealing bread. But they have spent years waiting for their trial and they're languishing in jail. Not prison yet, in jail. And it's a real problem and judiciary doesn't seem to care. And it also makes you aware of just how many cases there must be. I don't know why it takes so long to address cases. I don't know why they insist on keeping people in jail who are nonviolent, right? Or should have a process for some of these lighter cases. Yes, when a person is actually charged to, when the person commits a crime. Yeah, the lawyer. Okay, when a person commits a crime and the Panamata is reported to the police, the person is not supposed to be detained for more than 48 hours. That is what the criminal justice law, even the ACJ, the administration of criminal justice law of legal state, state sue. But today you go to the police station, you see people there for five days, seven days. And nothing is happening. Yeah, they're not being charged to court. Even those who, the Abattas are being tried to court. You hear certain delays that the magistrate is in town. So the person just keeps languishing in the police cell. Now the conditional police cell is not, is not anything to write him about because yesterday's about, you know, they've been beaten, being bullied by somebody else inside the cell. Yet they're coming out, no food. The rice is bad, the food is not well cooked. Yeah, no sex and all that. Exactly. So now, there's also a situation where the police also take advantage of these persons, these suspects. They are not aware. Yeah, because the law says that a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty. So the law says not yet a criminal. This is just a suspect. So a suspect could actually be innocent. Not in Nigeria. Exactly. Once he heard what suspects in Nigeria, he could not start the investigation. He's dead, you know, he's pretty much. And I think it goes to the fact that people don't know their rights. Yes. To a large extent. You know, I've heard a lot of cases where people come and say that bail is free. You know, people don't even understand that the bill is free. Right? You have to do something. And that just goes to a lot of, there's a lot of education required in that sense. When people are arrested, for instance, or when people are invited, you know, to police station, or when people actually are, you know, sued, there are different levels to these things and there are different laws that apply in different circumstances. Because most people are not even aware of what the law says. They are not aware of what their rights are. You know, so a lot of times, you know, people take advantage of those things. I've heard that in police stations, once the lawyer shows up, you know, the police get a bit aggressive, you know, because they're like, you know what, this person knows a bit more than the average Nigerian. You know, so this goes to every Nigerian. I believe that everyone should arm themselves with at least some semblance of education with what the law says, what is required. And you know, I had a friend that took last month to court and he won. You know, he's a troublemaker. Again, it would take a lot to know, but he had to know that he had those rights. You know, right? For him to have thought, he took them because... I know what's even more, you know... He should have made that victory public. Absolutely. He should have let other people know. But you see, what's even more, I mean, instructive here is that, listen, we're talking about the violations of people's rights, but I'm looking at a case where everything is gone through and you're in court. And the process just drags on endlessly. And that's why... Why does it drag on endlessly? That's what we don't know. It feels like you're running a campaign. You need so much money. I don't get it. Or the background has just come to a point. Or the systemic problem, I think that was about it. Maybe. So those are the things we need to look at. And that's why I said that, okay, we accuse the executives. They have to call the blame. We accuse the legislative. They have to take away all the blame as well. But then we ignore the justice system, of which, if that functions, if you're able to function to the extent that you know that if I take you to court, I can win. The average lawmaker will be a lot more careful. But he knows you won't even try it, first of all. Then secondly, he has all the sounds to back him up. And you, how many can learn? So there's also generally that perception that, you know that in the incident, that nobody who first called police did. No, no, no. There's that perception that, if this person goes to court first, then naturally they win. But that's sometimes where, if you're actually not guilty, you can fight your case. Baba Shalao, what do you think? Well, as a roundup. Shot went to Mr. Bill was free. Because in every police station there's a, forget about it, there's a sticker that says Bill is free. Right there. Well, you try and get it for free and then you know whether it's free or not. But it's really not, I mean, although I can't make any point, you know, the justice system is painful. It's almost, I mean, that's, it's almost like the last resort that has been abandoned. Now, I say this because he mentioned some criminals, Evans, who has a kidnapping case. So, you know, the justice system shouldn't even be thinking about Evans as is he innocent or guilty. They look at the facts and they should be able to throw him in jail or free him in a short space of time. But let's just look at another case. Yeah, I don't know about that. That can be his wife. Even if he's not cheated, must be. I mean, these people were shot by soldiers who were shot. His wife had bullets, bullet wounds when she was arrested. But they've been detained for more than five years. And that's what we're talking about. On a charge, on a charge of causing the killing of the members of their sects. No, they didn't have any arms at the time. So, I mean, that does show you how painful it is because these guys were armed. They were the ones that were shot at. They were wounded when they were held in custody. But it took a cut five years to be able to establish that they actually did not. That's the painful part, Mawashallah. But you know what, this justice system is something we can talk about all day long. But we need to move on. We just need to think through it and make sure that we get our justice system working. But let's go over to Shola, who is giving us a lecture in e-commerce. Stay with us. Legal issues in e-transactions. e-commerce is the buying and selling of goods and services through the internet. It has also been defined as the sharing of business information, the maintaining of business relationships, and the conducting of transactions by means of telecommunication networks. This has led to the emergence of electronic commerce through which commercial transactions are conducted between parties from different parts of the world and who may never see themselves in their lifespans. However, the emergence of electronic commerce has also brought with it a number of legal and socioeconomic problems, especially in the developing nations such as Nigeria. Problems which pose significant challenges to the legal regime of electronic commerce in those countries. It is not restricted solely to the actual buying and selling of products, but includes pre-sale and post-sale activities. In more liberal terms, once a contract of sale is effected between a buyer and a seller, using such electronic means as the electronic mail, regardless of distance or any geographical barrier, it is within the province of electronic commerce. The objectives of e-commerce include the facilitation of international cooperation through trade, making goods and services available to consumers all over the world, irrespective of distance, the expansion of the consumer base for manufacturers or producers of goods and services, and a reduction in the cost of service delivery by delivering this electronically. It encourages a single-world trading system which is facilitated by access through electronic means to goods and services from different parts of the world. Consumers in e-commerce are faced with a number of risks arising from the general lack of understanding of the operations of the internet. This has been compounded by a number of legal issues which have been largely taken care of in more advanced and sophisticated countries, but which issues are still being grappled with in developing countries such as Nigeria, where internet trading is something fairly new. There is no legislation on the protection of data presently in Nigeria, and the situation pertains a great danger for consumers in e-commerce. It is suggested that a queue be taken from the United Kingdom where there are principles that govern the protection of the data or communication of the parties in all internet transactions. The determination of the moment when a contract can be set to have come into existence on the internet, giving rise to the existence of rights and duties as between the parties has been one of the best issues in e-commerce. The special nature of internet contracts has made most of the common law rules applicable to commercial contracts in applicable to such contracts. For example, websites are designed in such a way as to constitute an invitation to make an offer and not situations of real offers by the web owners. However, in sales over the internet, both the display and the actual sale are often bonded. Making payment for goods and services both through the internet poses unique problems because of the fact that the parties may be thousands of kilometers apart. The problems associated with internet payment are in relation to the inability of the internet to guarantee the safety of such payments and the possibility of duplicating payment since a computer could potentially become a forger of detailed banknotes. Thank you. Hmm. A computer can be a forger of detailed banknotes. Yes, of these sub-banknotes. It's not even reliable. Me, I'm a complete Lodite. So, that does blew my mind. But as more of a, I've heard a lot of stories of people with their experiences with what they call online vendors. Yes, online vendors. There's a lot to be said. You know, again, I think that it's also the problem of education. People are not aware of what, you know, what's, I mean, a lot of things you just never heard about them before in terms of the legal parts of it, right? People just feel they have something to sell or you have the money for it, to pay for it. Whether they run the service or not, you know, it's not really their business. And, you know, customer service is a big, big problem in Nigeria anyways, you know. So, even when you go physically with your cash in your briefcase, you know, they really don't care. Not so much as over the phone, you know. So, they just look at, you know, they hide over under that cover of, you know, the internet so they're able to do a lot of things because, you know, I mean, my house come and beat me. Some of them will say that, right? What's the worst you can do? What's Gandhi's going around on social media? Well, the next customer. So, I think there has to be laws that are put in place. And there's a Consumer Protection Council. I think they need to look into, you know, internet transactions and e-commerce and then put those laws in place that actually guarantees, because I've had a few, you know, bad experiences. I'd rather just walk there. So, as a walker as I am. So, I just let me just go to the store. Fill this with my hands, right? Pay my money and go my way. So, but there are a few things that you have to buy, you know, and there are a few stores that are obviously more responsible than online, you know, online. So, you just, you know, basically pick your battles or pick your death, you know. Yeah, and the challenge of what I ordered against what I bought or what I sold. Like, you know, like you see. Yeah, we can have a whole section of that. I can't be delivered. By the time the shoe is delivered to you, you're seeing a different color of the shoe. Yes. So, in that case, what is the legal, you know, what is the legal process in that case? Can you sue? I mean, it's an e-commerce entity. How do you sue that kind of entity, right? And then are they going to answer? Yes, you can return and you can ask for a refund. And even if you don't get one? You can ask for a refund. You can, you can even enforce a legal action, but the problem you mentioned about the judiciary, when you sue over a matter, just the issue of 15K, you know, you're taking the matter to court. By the time you calculate the filing fees, going back and forth, what's the point? Just let it go. But it also says in terms of the structure of these e-commerce platforms, right? So some are, you know, set up very well. They have processes, there's agreements, you have to, you know, they have checks and balances, but you bring up Instagram. And that's probably the number one marketplace. Digitally, in Nigeria. God bless the soul. Yeah. So while there are these actual platforms, major platforms that exist in Nigeria that have these kind of things in place, you can return goods, they hold their vendors accountable. However, I would say probably the average person is using Instagram, is using Twitter, who is buying and selling. And so they're just going to do, you have to, you're really just at the behest of that person. And if they are willing to refund you or change and give the customer service. And there are lots of good vendors who are. But unfortunately, there'll be just as many who aren't. I've bought a platform where I've bought things twice and I've returned it twice. I have a friend who's bought, I don't want to mention names, he bought some things and when he bought it, he returned it, and they actually returned his money for him. To him. He refunded it. But it's true this day. I mean, outside all those ones, those are the established ones you're talking, you're referring to. But outside the established ones, the major thing we should look at is, what should a buyer, a potential client or customer look out for when you go online to shop? What are the limitations? Because for example, I know that when you're shopping online in Nigeria and when you use your card, it sends an OTP to your phone. But when you're shopping online at a foreign and international website, it doesn't send you OTP, it deducts immediately. So these are some of the things we need to look at to regulate. But I don't know what Barbara Scholar thinks. I think again, when I heard the word legal, I just think about the court and what we just said. But I also think about the cost of getting the lawyer to regulate or to intervene in a small matter. Now, I think what the only I can advise is that anybody who is shopping online should actually refer, I mean, all websites should have a returns policy which you can refer to in case you do buy something that you think you want to return and the issues. And that returns policy should inform what the process is and what your agreement is with the company. So I think before you buy anything from the website, where the returns policy, that said, an agreement is only as good as the person who wrote it. So we know some people who have copied and pasted other people's policies into their websites. So it may just be a mere formality, but at least if you're dealing with doing reputable companies and what you do, check their returns policies. Thank you very much, Mr. Barbara Scholar. Tolu is next after the break. Stay with us. Cancel culture, is there a better way? This is how Wikipedia defines cancel culture. I quote, cancel culture or color culture is a modern form of ostracizing in which someone is thrust out of social or professional circles, whether it be online, social media or in person. Notably, many people claiming to have canceled, to have been canceled, often remain in power and continue their careers as before. End of quote. Those subject to this shunning, I usually refer to as having been canceled. The expression cancel culture has mostly negative connotations and is commonly used in debates on free speech and censorship. The notion of cancel culture is a variant on the term call out culture and constitutes a form of boycotting or shunning involving an individual, often a celebrity, who is deemed to have acted or spoken in a questionable or controversial manner. Moreover, some cancellations have also been defended as exercising free speech and promoting accountability. Others criticize cancel culture as creating a chilling or bullying effect. But the question is, why do we draw the line between cancel culture and bullying? It is worthy of note to mention that most of the cancellation happens by those who have less power than the person or person is being canceled. So while we are passionate and concerned about censorship, when is it okay not to cancel? When is it okay to be silent? You can be argue that silence culture has also done us a lot of harm as many atrocities have been swept under the rug of silence that should have been brought to book. Now, when and how do we decide when to cancel or when to be quiet? Or should we rather err on the side of caution? The other concern is, as a nature of all things culture or cultural, it has a tendency to be created by a few for an intended good reason, or for good intentions, but also has a tendency to ride a wave and get washed off with the tide of time. We must continue to hold ourselves accountable, must also act right, not for fear of being judged or being canceled, but because we are self-respecting responsible individuals. So what is the most sustainable way to speak to power or to popular figures without cancelling ourselves back to the silence which was feared as dangerous? Where is the critical balance? The Rotary Club, four way of the things we say or do comes to mind. So of the things we think, say or do. One, is it the truth? Two, is it fair to all consent? Three, will it build goodwill and better friendships? And four, will it be beneficial to all consent? I advocate that we'll be careful not to cancel ourselves out of reason, instead let us constructively criticize ourselves to growth and to progress. Really interesting, really interesting. You know, it's that thing for me, you know, where do you draw the line? Because I've witnessed a few occasions where people have been called out online, either for bad business practices and, you know, years down the line, we have found, you know, the accusations to be true. There are also, you know, people who have, you know, been called out online for things that they had said to have done which are not true. I mean, I remember a sad incident where a young man committed suicide, I think a year ago or two. And, you know, it's just been able to draw the line. I always say that, you know, we should not be silent when we see things being done in the wrong manner. Or we should also think about it like you said, what is the purpose of what I'm about to say? What good will it do? You know, I'm posting something on social media about someone else. Is it better to ask as a question and have that person answer so that it's not like I've just blatantly assumed that they, you know, they've done something illegal or wrong? I think it's very difficult in the heat of emotions to be able to get, you know, to find a proper way to do things. But I think if we just all stop for a minute or two to breathe and think about what we're doing, I think, you know, it will reduce all the, you know, tension and, you know, mishaps. All right, I think that, in my view, the council culture blatantly stampets people a lot of times into a movement that they might nest really not before. Because let's take, for example, where mainly amongst the youth and online nowadays, because let's take, for example, there's a discussion going on in a particular area and you're speaking in different, I mean, not necessarily against it, but not for it. And suddenly it's like you're canceled. You're no longer relevant to that. So for you to be relevant to the friends, you need to tour their line. So it's like you're stampeded into, okay, let's go with the flow. It's when you step bullying and I say, yes, that's actually, it's a silent way of bullying you, especially for people who are not self-sufficient who feel they need probably the approval of the lot to just flow the tide and... So what about this, right? And you say it a lot and I'm so tired of celebrities apologizing. I'm done with it. Thank you. We were all different 10 years ago, right? Some of the things we said and did 10 years ago, they bring it today, but we're not the same people. Stop cancelling people for things they said 10, 15, even 20 years ago, five years ago, people change and we need to give people that chance to grow and understand that every single person that exists on this earth does not agree with everything they did back then. So people just want to troll through the old history and bring it out and cancel people. And I just think, don't say sorry. Stop saying sorry, because you are then helping them cancel you. Yeah, because who do you need to cancel next? Guys, please apologize. Yeah, but that's not to say that. I mean, so my problem is the culture, right? Is the thinking behind saying, let's attack this person and then get them to take an action because we attack them. So it's a motive for me because I believe strongly as well that there's a lot of good social media can do in terms of accountability. So for instance, Shola said earlier that politicians promise something and it's five years out of the line or two years out of the line. It's okay to say, sir, I mean, post his what's it called, his manifesto and say, sir, this was your manifesto two years ago. We're here to say any of this thing. So there's a place for calling out. I'm even afraid to say calling out now. I love that you said call out culture. I'm all for call out culture, not cancel culture. It's different because what cancelling does before you come into your time is that it's typhoon divergent views. So you almost go in a particular line of thoughts. No other person must go wrong. I actually think that it also affects if we keep remaining quiet over issues that come up every day, then what happens to somebody who faces that same challenge? The person feels intimidated already. For instance, in rape cases, where you see young girls come out to say, I was raped, there's this attack, this silent attack. Some people would like to keep quiet, but you hear some people come out to say, are you sure? Are you sure? Are you sure? That question, what are you wearing? Is that the question? So most ladies who were raped just try to keep quiet or try to keep it as a secret. Nobody's talking. And it goes on and on. And before you know it, it's affecting our psychology. She's developing, she's growing in a different manner. She's having a particular mindset about men. So it affects the culture and it affects our children and even the youths. Absolutely. Because you're patting down a culture that doesn't go well. Yeah, so how do you get the critical balance? So there's a silent culture, if you like, and there's a call-out culture. So it's basically straddling more than achieving a critical balance. Making sure that you give people room, because the whole point of social media again, I mean part of the point of social media, is that you have a platform to express yourself. But that really showed the realness of who we are as humanity. And just shows we had a lot higher esteem of who we are. And it's actually showing the true nature of human beings. And we're telling. Now the thing is that Shola, you spoke to something there and it doesn't even have to be extreme as rape. In that people are just scared to speak up because they don't want to speak up. Because everybody in that comment section would now be terrorizing you. So there's a certain amount of lack of emotional resilience, emotional maturity. And that speaks to how we're raising our children. So something happened between, I think, my generation, I can't count for you, and the one after. Because there's a stark difference. We are still open to hearing other views and debating other views. We understand that we can't all agree. But we should all hear each other out. Because in that discussion and in that debate, is how we create things for the better. Absolutely. So we can disagree without being disagreeable. Without being disagreeable, without being exact. You said there's this program I host on TV, Lego Stalks at 1.3 FM on radio rather. And it got to a point where when I started the program, some people called it. And they said to me, you have your breath of fresh air. What was it? Is it breath of fresh air? Breath of fresh air. Breath of fresh air. That's the point. That you allow people to hear their views without nudging them in a particular direction. And I think that's why, like you said, when we draw the line, there is no drawing the line. The cancel culture is wrong. Call out is better. Call out is pointing at what you're doing wrong. The cancel culture is more like stifling, oppressing, bullying, limiting, they are judging. Limiting someone's ability to even think along a particular line. Because you don't need to agree with me. But there might be sense to what I'm saying. And when we're younger, you hear, what you're saying makes sense, but I don't agree with you. Yes. It's simple. That's absolutely. And that's independent thinking. That's part of education. What education should do is allow you to have your own opinion. But then be sensible and intelligent enough to take over those opinions. And not agree with it and still not fight them. Exactly. All right. On last week's episode, on the issue of special needs children in the Nigerian location system, great adventure book says, teachers need to learn how to reach every child, irrespective of how the child learns. That's the size of the show today. Join us again next week on another edition of The Advocate. The Advocate continues on our social media platforms and Facebook, plus TV Africa, hashtag The AdvocateNG, and Instagram, at plusTVAfrica, hashtag The AdvocateNG. So catch up with previous broadcasts, go to plusTVAfrica.com, slash The AdvocateNG. Don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel, plusTVAfrica. Join us next week, same time, on this station. Let's keep advocating for a better society. Bye-bye now.