 Everyone can take their seats, they're about to begin. And if we could have people kind of fill into the center, it would be best. Got it. Alrighty, so I'm going to begin. My name is Jonathan McCory. I'm the director of theater arts programming here at Dr. Barbara Antier's National Black Theater. And I want to welcome you, yes, and I want to welcome you in the words of our founder, Dr. Barbara Antier. Welcome to your home away from home. All of you out on Ethernet World, on HowlRound, live streaming and all of you present in the space. National Black Theater was created to be a home for black consciousness and black thought. So in the extension of our founder, an extension of her vision, we welcome you. So I'm going to give you a little context to Catalyst. Catalyst is actually a four, was or is, I mean, we were in the midst of it, a four day convening, starting on August 4th, where MBT brought 20 black theaters to New York City to have a conversation around the sustainability, viability and infrastructure of black theaters nationally. And the theaters, I'm going to list actually, so you can actually know the scope of the people that were in the room for these four days. We had Ben Guillory from Roby Theater, Los Angeles. We had Carla Stillwell from Impact Theater, Chicago. We had Carlton Taylor from New Heritage Group Theater in New York City. We had David Mitchell from Arena Players in Baltimore, Maryland. We had Deidre Harrington from the Movement Theater Company in New York City. We had Echo Dio Badale from Hattie Lu Theater in Memphis, Tennessee. We had Harold Stewart from South Dallas Cultural Center in Dallas, Texas. We had Jonathan McCory from the National Black Theater. We had Kelly Gerard from the Fire This Time Festival in New York City. We had Kamati Porter from ETA Creative Arts Foundation in Chicago, Illinois. We had Linda Paris Bailey from Carpet Bag Theater in Knoxville, Tennessee. We had Malcolm Darrell from MKD Arts Management from Los Angeles, California. We had Marjorie Moon from Billie Holiday Theater. We had Nancy Cheryl Davis Bellamy from Town Street Theater in Los Angeles, California. We had Samuel Robinson from Congo Square Theater Company in Chicago, Illinois. We had Sandra Daly from Liberation Theater Company in New York. We had Shae Wafer from 651 Arts in New York. We had Stephanie McKee from Junebug Productions in New Orleans. We had Valerie Curtis Newton from the Hansberry Project in Seattle, Washington. And we had Woody King, Jr. from the New Federal Theater in New York. This was the brain trust that helped to establish Catalyst, which was its first incarnation of pilot program, which was funded and supported by these beautiful organizations. We would love to give thanks to MetLife and TCG for their AHA program, their Think It Grant, New York Department of Cultural Affairs, and New York City Council. And our sponsors who helped to make this all happen as well. We had BTN Network. We had HowRound.com. We had Aloft Harlem, Boulevard Bistro, Foundation Center, and Art New York. This was created from a village at first, which is founded in the roots of the African tradition. And we lent on our community in order to make this happen. So you are an extension of that, because now we're in the public area, where we're actually going to have a conversation around sustainability of Black theater. And we're going to lean on you as our brain trust now. And I now leaned it over to Dayfina. Hey, hey, hey. Is that good? Can you all hear me? Hello, everyone. My name is Dayfina McMillan. I'm from Theater Communications Group, TCG. Thanks for being with us. I'm going to introduce my esteemed panel in a little bit, but I just want to say thanks to those 20 organizations that have been doing the hard work and doing the great work over the past four days. And thanks to Shadeh and Jonathan Diedra for the ferocity for putting together something this amazing. So clap to all of you and the theaters. Before we get started, I was reading a lot before this panel and grounding myself in just the legacy of Black theater just to get in the space. And I thought before we get started, we might want to hear a few words from August Wilson. So I just want to start in that moment. I'm trying to look at Jonathan to see if a little silence is OK, give it a few seconds. And if it doesn't work, we'll try to do it later. I'm worried about August Wilson. I always did believe in love. I felt like if you don't believe in love, you may as well not believe in nothing. Even love today, but halfway it's still love. And that don't make it no less because it's only coming one way. I see status that was attended to that. Perfect. I knew I'd call him. I stand myself in my arts squarely on the self-defining ground of the slave borders. And I found the ground to be hallowed and made fertile by the blood and bones of the men and women who can only be described as warriors on the cultural battlefield that affirmed their self-worth. As there is no idea that cannot be contained by black life, these men and women found themselves to be sufficient and secure in their art and in their instructions. It was this high ground of self-determination that the black playwrights of the 60s mocked out for themselves. Ron Milner, Ed Bullens, Phillip Hayes Dean, Richard Wesley, Monnie Elder III, Sonia Sanchez, Barbara Entier, and Amiri Baraka were particularly vocal and whose talents confirmed their presence in the society and altered their merit in theater, its meaning, its craft, and its history. The brilliant explosion of black arts and letters in the 60s remains, for me, the hallmark and the signposts that points the way to our contemporary work on the same ground. Black playwrights everywhere remain indebted to them for their brave and courageous forays into an area that is marked with landmines and the shadows of snipers who would reserve the territory of arts and letters in American theater as their own special province and point blacks toward the ball fields and the bandstands. That black theater today comes under such assault should surprise no one as we are on the verge of reclaiming and reexamining the purpose and pillars of our art and laying out new directions for its expansion. And it's such. Thank you. I'm glad it worked because, yeah, was that a clap? I think we just wanted to recognize the weight of this conversation. That speech was from the ground on which I stand. August Wilson gave that speech at a TCG conference in 1996, almost 20 years ago. And I wanted to play that just because he ended on wanting to lay a foundation for new ideas and new ways to approach sustainability of black theater, and that's why we're here today. And also to remind us that while we have had this conversation, this conversation is different, and we're building on that legacy and building on that work, and I think that's something we should celebrate and clap again for. The work that the organizations I've been doing for the past four days is profound and really focusing on sustainability, and that's one of the questions we'll get into in a little bit is, how do we define sustainability? What does that really mean? How do we have agency in a conversation about the sustainability of black theater? And I just want to commend that work and also say that part of our goal here today is to look to the future, be action-oriented in our conversation, to talk about what we mean and to actually move towards progress. Shade and Carmen on our panel have been through the four days. Carmen has been the core facilitator of this conversation, so I'm really eager to hear some of those themes that came out of this and how we can have a conversation through this entrepreneurial spirit of the world in which we exist today. So I will introduce the panel now because you don't want to know who they are. We've got Bridget Evans, who's an actor and producer and president of the Fuel We Power Change Organization. Thank you, Bridget. We've got Aliyah Jones-Harvey all the way to the right, a Broadway producer. Welcome. Switching up, you don't know who I'm gonna call next. Shade LeCon, CEO of the National Black Theater. Thank you. Kwame Kwe Armah, artistic director of Center Stage and TCG board member. Carmen Morgan, many things, community organizer leading a civil rights organization in LA, but was also the co-facilitator of Catalyst and also a partner with TCG and Ruben. Ruben Santiago Hudson, who also many things, writer, director, actor, everything. So thanks for being here. So just to give you a little few ground rules, I know we started a little bit late. My goal is to just ask the panel a few questions, but hopefully around eight o'clock, be able to open it up to all of you to ask questions. For those of you that are here, there is a microphone, but also hopefully those that are live streaming and following on Twitter, we will be taking your questions as well. So if you do have a question on Twitter, just ask that question and hashtag CatalystNYC. So we'll be taking those questions in a little bit and make sure you go to the mic if you're here. So my first question for you all, because you're eager to talk, I know we were having this conversation before we even started. Why is this moment so critical when we talk about the sustainability of black theater? Some people have said we've had this conversation. Why the urgency now and what is the role? How do we have agency in this conversation to move towards the sustainability of black theater? Who wants to take that one on? And if you do panel, please make sure you grab a microphone. Okay, so we huddled up before this and created some small choreography. So I'm going to go first. Thank you, Carmen. I thought that was just, you know, casual, they're gonna stick to it. Well, you know, so from where I sit, one of the things that I think informs why this is so timely now and maybe why it's a little different now is a lot of the work that I've been doing is been with predominantly white institutions, predominantly white theaters who are really wanting to take a renewed, well in some instances it's for the first time, look at issues of equity, right, within their organizations. And as a part of that, they have started to broaden their notion and vision of how they see themselves as theater institutions. And a big part of that is them taking on more and more diversity on their stage, more and more diversity in the kind of plays they wanna produce, more and more diversity in terms of audience engagement and on their board. And when I say diversity, it certainly cuts across a lot of different issues, but primarily it is around issues of race. So at the same time that that's happening, you have a theater community that is struggling just in general. When we look at the changing demographics and where the population is going in the future, all theaters, a lot of arts institutions in general, are just really finding that this is a moment for them to tighten up the connection that they have between their institutions and their communities to stay relevant. So all these arts institutions are dealing with this issue. So at the same time that this is happening with the broader arts sector, what's happening within the theater sector is more intentionality on the part of white theaters around this issue of diversity and inclusion. And so what does it mean for culturally specific theaters? Are they now being put in a position where they're competing for their audiences? Some would say no, because their work is fundamentally different than what white, predominantly white theaters can produce. But I think that's what makes it a little different, Davefina, is that it comes at a time when the theater community in general is really having to recalibrate itself in relation to their audience, their community, and at a time when predominantly white theaters are recognizing that what they envisioned as community is a scope that they want to broaden. So again, just back to what does it mean for black theaters in particular when all of those things are happening at the same time? I'll speak just shortly on that. I think that the atmosphere currently, it's funny, one of our black organizations that recognize excellence in black theater is the Adelko Awards. And the Adelko Awards are almost 40 years old started by Vivian Robinson. And it's funny, every year, national black theater, thankfully, is nominated for something along with some of the wonderful work that's done in our black theaters around New York. And every year it becomes incredible how many awards signature theater wins or all of these white institutions that are getting the funding to do black theater, but they're white organizations. And it literally is jaw-dropping to see all of these well-funded, sometimes well-endowed white theaters being the hallmark of black theater. And while our black institutions are struggling, because now, as you said, the funding is more competitive, the audience become more competitive, and also the funding requirements in terms of the data culture project, all of the funding requirements from basic funds that we have gotten and sustained us throughout the decades are now kind of turning up the impact studies, turning up all of the necessities to prove that we do the work that we've been doing for decades and decades and decades of years. And in order to do it properly, you have to have a development staff. And some of our theaters, you are the executive director, you are the managing director, you are the development. And so right now in this day and age, this conversation around sustainability becomes essential because the field is dealing with race, diversity in a very different, and I would argue to say subversive way that's creating, and I know we can always say, well, we've always been underfunded, but we are under the gun in a way that is so systemic and so almost invisible. It's like carbon monoxide, really, and they'll say, well, they're doing black plays because it's this piece or it's that piece, but our institutions and our black artists are not the recipients of what it looks like today. So I think that's why it's a timely conversation right now. I would say a few things, if I may. Number one, it's magnificent that you guys are having this debate, and that by itself is a huge contributor to sustainability. The framing of this debate and the way that we just ended with August saying, new directions for its expansion, black theater. I loved that, being a foreigner as it were. Even this panel means so much to me, and I think even as we begin to think about the future and sustainability, I love to celebrate the present and the past, and August, I read the speech, that TCG-printed speech, when I was in London, and it changed my life. I mean, it's fundamentally having an artist of that level of integrity and success and brilliance, and being able to write from that perspective of no fear changed my life. Alia and her company came to London with black producers producing on the West End and on Broadway. I mean, that was just thrilling for me. And when we talk about sustainability of us as artists of color and of black artists, I mean, these are magnificent things. One of the first things I directed in America was here at this very theater. When I walked in this door, I took a photograph, I put it up on Instagram, and all my people in Britain went, yeah, it exists. Something like this exists, and freak the hell out. Reuben, whose work I have known and I have seen and whose multiplicity of disciplines is just a wonderful signal of what we can achieve, and I can go on, come and I can go on. So I just think as we begin this debate and as we talk about some of the problems, that it's really important that we celebrate where we are right now. And I would say to, finally, to your point after that preamble and forgive that caveat, the reason why I think this debate is tremendously important right here and right now is because there was a time when diversity simply lived within the binaries of black and white. It now does not. At any repertory regional theater, when they think about diversity, black is but, or the old word, black is but one of several as we compete. Now this is not a bad thing, but it is true. And I know that my personal artistry was fed greatly by Congo Square in Chicago producing my work, by the National Black Theater producing my direct. So I think it's really important that we realize that this is a very critical time because it is not going to get any better than it is right now unless we hold our personal, culturally specific messages and produce it within strong institutions that wish to celebrate not just our integrity, but our three-dimensionality and not just our entertainment. Thank you. You know, the thing that occurs to me because I enter this both as somebody who has produced and put stories into the world, but also as an actor who's been, had the great fortune to help to enliven other writers' stories. And the thing I want to uplift in addition to sort of the cultural moments that we're in and the need to sort of create innovation in terms of the infrastructure of the industry and of the network of theaters is just on a very basic level the urgency that I feel personally as somebody who works in the social justice world as well, the urgency to tell stories and the sense that voices and people's realities are disappearing in sort of this very ever cluttered media story landscape, working within movements where the realities of, for instance, girls and young women are actually literally being disappeared in the storytelling, whether it's happening through the data that's being collected, through the media reports that are reaching the highest levels of distribution or through the creative stories that are being told, that the sense of invisibility is in my experience growing. And it is not by coincidence, I think, that in my experience as a storyteller, as an actor, who has been most often compelled to tell the stories of women and young girls in incredible situations of vulnerability, that the people who have allowed me to tell those stories have generally been artists of color, black artists who have taken the courageous step to write those stories down. And in many cases have been given the support and guidance that they need by institutions of color to actually move their stories, their plays towards production. And so that, I see, is not only a creative infrastructure, but sort of politically and on a basic human rights and social justice level, it is an infrastructure that is necessary to create kind of a much larger kind of cultural power and influence and an agency to actually direct, direct a community towards much greater opportunity and equity. Thank you. I'm sorry, I get a little confused when I hear a lot of different things. And only thing that's kind of like on my mind so it's like ideas and ways that we could sustain our theaters in places to do our theater. I think, in my opinion, when you talk about images of women and little girls, I don't think there's ever been a play I ever wrote that I didn't give them the balance that I give. So people are writing them. I wrote Lackawanna Blues, it's about a black woman, it's 80 years old. But so I think that what I think we have to make sure is we ensure the possibility in the platform to tell our stories as truthfully and profoundly as possible, wherever they may be. But where that will happen for sure, hopefully is in the black theaters. But as artists, I wanna know who is gonna allow me to tell that story with the vision that I foresee at the integrity level that I want and have gotten to at this point in my career that I don't have to settle for anything other than what I think is the top production that can add and bring and distribute and disseminate a vision. Now, I can do theater and all of us can in a doorway. I have done theater in a doorway. I have done theater in lunchrooms, on counters, in basements, in churches. I've knocked on church doors and said, could you feed me? I'd read some Malcolm X and Martin Luther King. I've been there. I want to do it now to make sure what I do, I set a bar, I set a level of integrity of the work that will not only sustain that work, but everything that comes behind it, this is the way it has to be done. Now, that don't mean it has to be white theaters or black theaters, but rarely does the theater come to me and say, what do you wanna do? And that's 90% of how you get me, opposed to saying, we want you to do, is what do you want to do? Once you get to be a certain age, it's like, what do you want to do opposed to what you have to do? And so what the theaters, I think collectively, if we can, like this place should be packed with every black, it's 96 or 97 black theaters in the country, last I looked on the road. I look at the road, I don't see them in here. I don't see the 20 some black theaters in New York here. I see some of them here that always come and support everything, but we have to first start by packing everybody's show. Each theater should pack the other person's show. And that's what breeds success. People contributing, and contributing by putting your ass in the seat, by showing up. Everybody should be here representing every theater. And when I don't see that, that's discouraging to me. But the thing is, we're looking for superstars in all these schools in Yale and Juilliard, the next black Denzel. We need to be looking for superstars in management universities, because where we're falling short is in management. We're not falling short in talent. We've been entertaining since 1821 at the African Grove Theater when we wrote our first play. We can entertain you to death. Where is our fundraising mechanisms? Where are our machines that are getting the money for us? Where are the brilliant minds that know how to get money? That's what sustain institutions. And until then, we have to collectively come together and see how we fund each other by putting up something and taking it somewhere else and bringing it to exchange programs. And that's gonna take a lot of guest houses and rooms in the basement and little things, but we have to travel with our stuff. We have to travel collectively and build collectively. But in the meantime, we gotta quit looking for superstars at Juilliard, but for superstars at Wharton School of Business. You know, and I mean, that's just my rant for the moment. Well, thanks for that rant. I think you're leading me to where I wanted to go, which is, so, this forward-looking, and so I'm curious to hear from the folks, Carmen and Shade about some of the themes that came out of Catalyst. But for all of you, when we talk about sustainability, I mean, I love that word, but we use it a lot. What do we mean by that? And I think to address something you said earlier, I think there's not really a dichotomy between white theaters and theaters of color. I think we're just saying, we want the field to be healthy, and it's great that those organizations are also looking at equity, but how do we make sure those theaters of color are also resourced, right? So what do we mean by sustainability? What are we saying? What is the vision to call upon what Ruben said? What does that look like? What are we hoping for? What are we trying to move towards? You know, I wanna pick up on something that Ruben said about this issue of sustainability because it's connected to certainly fiscal health and management, but it's also connected to the issue of equity and justice. Because we had a wonderful, wonderful presentation with a woman who has been doing research on business models for over 20 years. And one of the things that she lifted up was, you know, in their scan that they've been doing of hundreds of theaters around the nation, I'm looking for support. I think it was about maybe over 200 theaters doing a scan of 200 theaters, going into their books, taking a look at their balance sheets, being clear about their, just doing a fiscal health assessment of these theaters. And she said, one of the interesting things that they found out was, when they looked at predominantly white institutions, and because she was talking to black theaters, she also, so she wanted to lift up the stats specific to black theaters. She said that the relationship between fiscal health and I'm really generalizing, because I'm not as business savvy as she was. But she said the research showed that the distinction between predominantly white institutions, predominantly white theaters, and black theaters was minimal. Like she said, we couldn't track it. You know, the amount of capital that they have, the amount that they have on their balance sheet, you know, whether it be two months worth of cash flow or a year, whether they have endowments, there was no distinction along those kind of indicators, except for a couple. And one she said, what she noticed in the research was, that black theaters didn't have as many access to foundation grants. When she looked at that scan, she said, you know, it was interesting, it was a really interesting corollary that white theaters got far more foundation funding than black theaters. And the other interesting corollary that she said, that she found was in addition to having access to more foundation dollars, white theaters also had a larger percentage of individual donors, big individual donors, which does speak to your point of, we've got to support our communities. But the piece that was interesting, and this is a woman who has been running numbers and really looking at this data, and it may be one of the, well, I don't want to say that it was, that it may be the first time she's pulled out black specific theater numbers, but I just remember the level of astonishment. She said, that's just not fair. She said, that's not fair. That kind of discrepancy is problematic. Is what she was telling us. She said, this isn't fair. So I think to hear that, to hear this woman, she's done all this research, and to hear that all of the other indicators for fiscal health, white theaters and black theaters are on par, except when it comes to having access to foundation dollars, there's something to be said about that. You know, what I don't want to do is, I don't want to perpetuate a myth of, and I don't think anybody here on this stage is doing this, you know, like, well, we just got to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps. We got to do, we've got to, because some of it is structural. Actually, a significant amount of it is structural. In terms of who has access, you know, who is able to access many of the board members of these foundations, who's on the inside. So I just want to put that out there, in terms of, so part of sustainability and part of fiscal health is yes, we have to know how to keep our books. We've got to be able to have our fiscal act together, but we also need to have a fair playing field. We need equity. There's never been a fair playing field. There will never be a fair playing field. That's the deal we got. That's why we got to get harder. That's why we have to go harder, and it has to be more important to us to do our art. It's important to them. That's why they're giving money to people that look like them. The people that look like us, that are in power, not just the stars and superstars, but the foundation people, the heads of companies, the CEOs, it has to be important to them that our theater is sustained in our theater. Not only sustains, forget about sustainability, thrives. We have to thrive, and when I'm having meetings with these people that look like me, that are billionaires, and trust me, it's a bunch of them that we don't even know are billionaires, own whole towns, and they're not interested in our art, and we have to find a way to educate them at a younger age to let the theater and the arts bite them in the butt, like it bit all of us in here, because we all want to tell our stories, all of us from every, we got to bite them in the butt early and teach them and train them, so they fall in love with this and they make the sacrifices essential to make it thrive. Okay, 100%. Where I get frustrated is that this conversation, usually in the past, is missing the how. Like, we've got the passion. We've got the commitment, but what is the how? And I think that a part of the purpose of Catalyst and the purpose of this panel specifically is to get to the point where we talk about collectivity, where we talk about how we are our brother's keeper, how we are our sister's keeper, because what you're saying is true, what the numbers don't lie, but how do we do it? And I think there has been a systemic disease in black communities and in black theater where we suffer in silos. We're so embarrassed about what we don't have that we're putting on the good face about what we do have and we're suffering in silos. And what Catalyst did was bring all of us together so we could celebrate what we have achieved, but we could heal what has been broken and we can do it as a family. So when you talk about what you talk about, I want to know how. And I think taking that veil of I'm in Chicago, I'm in New York, I'm in Memphis, I'm in LA away and looking at black theater as one family, that this idea of tokenism and crabs in a barrel going after the same little piece of cheese has kept us oppressed in our liberated voices for so long. So I want to get to how and the way to get to how is to take accountability and responsibility that if the National Black Theater isn't doing well then Congo Square isn't doing well. If National Black Theater isn't doing well, then you haven't done your job on Broadway. And to look at it from the perspective, and I'm passionate about this, because we have a Broadway producer, we have an actor, we have a playwright, we have Hollywood, we have Broadway, we have all of that. And Ruben's not a good example of it because he's here, but. So you're off the hook, you're off the hook. Don't use me as an example, plus I said you gotta talk to the people and make it important to them. I'm telling you how. Absolutely, but what I'm saying is in building that bridge to connectivity and to collectivity, there has to be a push. We have to love ourselves, we have to care about it, and the people who have been produced on these larger venues and stages have to love it so much that they want to take care as well. And Ruben will read his play here, but I know a lot of people who've been produced on these other stages won't. Or if I don't have the budget to produce the play that you're doing, then it's gonna go to an institution that's capitalized properly that is funded in a certain way, and that usually does not look like us. So some of our best and our brightest are going to these white institutions because there is an expectation of excellence. Now, how do we get excellent? We know we tell our stories excellent, we've been doing theaters since 18, whatever. If not before, because what we're doing right now is very African, but it takes to build the bridge. In order for Black theater to grow, some of the people who have been established have to care enough to say, I wanna do a workshop. I wanna read my play there. It might get produced at the public, it may get produced at this other place, but me being in this seat, attracting these audiences, creates a national conversation and makes it important to a collective that may not be conscious about it. So in, so fiscal stability, finding that those geniuses in business schools is important, but it's also important that we have a relationship. Sharte, you know, we talked about the signature winning all those awards, that's where I am, but don't notice that when I went down there, I did a whole NEC season. The signatures never did a season for any company. Only playwrights, only playwrights. I asked them to do a season for the Negro Ensemble Company. I asked them for playwrights, I couldn't get them to do one playwright. Paul Carter Harrison is sitting here, he's one of the playwrights I asked them to do. I couldn't get them to do one playwright, I got them to do the season. So each one teach one, each one bring one. So if I'm in the door, I'm bringing y'all with me. I'm bringing you with me and I'm bringing everybody with me and that's keeping me out of some doors. Let's just be honest about it. People have said to me in offices, quit your agenda, quit bringing everybody, you can come in. I'm not going in if I don't see y'all with me. And so the thing is, when we get places like Kwame has, he is doing more black theater than they have done in 20 years. And so he is bringing with him and establishing playwrights in new plays and developing things. So we have to bring it, we have to bring, and we cannot live on the myth that Broadway is talking to us about what we need to do our plays. We must know what we need to do our plays and sure, we the best in the world at what we do when it comes to anything we put our mind to because we're hungrier than anybody else. And when we get content and we buy what they've given us cause they'll put that pacifier in our mouth with riches and you run off and you're gone and you get in the house on the hill and you forget about this. I'm here, this ain't the first time I've been here and they honored me and I appreciate it. I will be here and this ain't the only place I've been up here. I have yet to direct up here. As soon as I ask what's your, how many lighting units you got and what's your sound system and they can't answer it, I leave. You know, and they tell me this is all we got and it's what we need, let's go, let's see what we can do is something we can do. And when I do my play, if we read it here, their name is with me where I go. If I do my play, Ebony Rep's name is with me where I go. St. Louis Black Rep, they're coming, NEC is coming. They're coming with me or I ain't going in the door and that'll keep you out a lot of doors but it ain't worth being there if you buy yourself. I think it's also important to draw the connection between what's happening in the Black Theater community and the Black Theater community on Broadway and I feel like there's been a divide. I'm very grateful to be invited to this panel today but having been working on Broadway shows for the past eight years in the last week I was introduced to the Black Theater Network and now being introduced to Catalyst, this is my first connection with the nonprofit theater community as one of two African-American producers on Broadway. So I think a part of this conversation and I was sharing earlier with Carmen, I'm the MBA. I'm not coming from the artistic side, I'm coming from the business side and my perspective on sustainability of Black Theater is coming from a whole other vantage point. I've been looking at structurally how to get to the earned income model which to me is, it seems to be the most sustainable route to take to produce something on a smaller scale and then have it grow and travel and then eventually get produced on a much larger scale earn income back to the original theater and so those are the kinds of things that I'm thinking about but also really understanding what that connection is we have been so fortunate to come across Black people that do care about theater and have put down dollars for theater so how can we get connected with the theaters in our community that we can introduce them to? So I think that that's all part of what needs to happen going forward. Thank you. Yeah, keep going. One of the beautiful things about this discussion is that as you've said, we have passion and we have expertise and all in every person that's here and so often I feel, I should speak about myself that there is nothing original, there's nothing new that one can say to this but I think collectively, I think what's just been articulated is that we need to grow our Black audiences so that we grow our donor base and that donor base then is able to contribute to the infrastructure and make us infrastructurally strong. Now that's not a model that is exclusive to us, that is a model. It's just business and growing that base and Ruben I think alluded to it very early that if we're not ramming out our theaters then we're not getting the people who are going to just, not just buy the tickets but then give to that institution in the way and because I think, and I think you said, and I think I'm bastardizing something that you may have said earlier, so forgive me but there is foundation support and that's hugely important but actually I think for most theaters foundation support sits between 10 and 20% that actually individual giving is a huge contributor to sustainability and thriving, as you said. So trying to do both things at the same time, get access, deal with that structural inequality, have the access to those, both skills and dollars but also to create an audience that is willing to support in an individual way I think is what we're all, we've all been trying to do and I think it's what everybody here is trying to do and sharing the best toolkit to do that I think is also a, can contribute to sustainability. We talked about, oh I mentioned earlier about it being important. You will make a sacrifice for something that is important to you and how does it become important to you and that's what we talked about nurturing the younger which you guys do all the time. You set the bar for that. And for me, following that example, opening up a theater, teaching kids theater early, catching them young. So once they fall in love with this, these are kids that are gonna go to college, people go to college now and when I came up it was a privilege, now it's a necessity. So it's like these kids go to college and they become some of them very successful and if theater is one of the top rungs of their agenda then we have donors, then we have people who are passionate about what we do. But when I try to initially go to in my fundraising for my projects, people that look like me because I want them to be with me as I spoke, I get rejected twice as hard by them than I do and I always have a person of a different color stand on the side and say, come on, come on, I'm gonna take care of that. You know, because they want to be there. And I keep going to, come on y'all. And they keep saying, well, can you, can you, can you? And there's no guarantee in theater as we all know. We do it because we must, we must carry on our legacy. We must carry on Dr. Barbara Antier's legacy. We must carry on Douglas Turner Ward, Woody's. We have to carry it on because it's the only place we get to give truthful depictions or even elaborate on myths about how wonderful we are. But the thing is, if we, somebody gonna elaborate on the myth about us, it's got to be us. Because when somebody else does it, it rings so false of buffoonery, there are movies out that you can go see and find out that start as cartoons. And they become supposed to be about icons. So we don't tell our theater about us as cartoons. You know what I'm saying? Because we understand, we should understand what's important to us culturally. Culturally, that's what August Wilson was celebrating, not history, culture. And when we lose what grandma did and grandpa did and said, we lose our legacy. We lose our foundation, we lose our ancestry. They celebrate that here. And that's why when they give me the call, my butt get here. Because that's what I need, you need, and we all up here need. Because we're the African Americans, the Black folks, we don't know where we from. And as far back as where we from, is what grandma told us. Unless you get this DNA in this dude at Harvard, Skip Gates thing. But all I know is what grandma told me, she said McKenzie, Alabama. In the same stuff they was cooking in McKenzie, Alabama, she still was cooking before she passed. That's my legacy. That's my culture, those smells, those tastes, that language, that lean, that's August Wilson. You know what I'm saying? And so that's, where else are they gonna let us celebrate that? You know, consistently, but that's why it's important. It's more than important. It's survival for us to have safe spaces and platforms to be able to speak as loud and eloquently and poetically and angry as we possibly can. Before we pass it to the audience and the folks on Twitter, I just wanna go back to the how and this powerful moment of catalyst and if there's anything you wanna share about themes, I know you're working on a toolkit. Anything that would be helpful to carry this conversation forward. Well, quickly I'll just say, and I'm sure Carmen has a lot to say about it as well, one of the most powerful elements that I took away from catalyst was our day at the Foundation Center with Luz Rodriguez and she put up a pie chart of all charitable giving and we got to see how small of a percentage arts and culture get in general. And then we dissected that small percentage and looked at the breakdown of the giving for arts and culture and 72% of all giving was individual donors. So it wasn't the foundations, it wasn't government grants, it wasn't all of these Lotto tickets that were all like, can we get that? It was individual giving. And then in her tenure of teaching these workshops, she said she's seen every well-funded white nonprofit and she would go through her workshop, but the most powerful ones were immigrant nonprofits, in particular in the Mexican community. These Mexican women would come in, barely speaking English and she would ask them, how long has your nonprofit been around? And they would sometimes say 25, 30 years and she said, what? And they would look at her balance, they would look at the balance sheet and they would look at their giving. It was because people came and they sold corn or they sold t-shirts or someone from their small salary said I'm gonna give $5 a month for every month for a year. But this idea, that's who the 72% is. It's not Denzel Washington giving you a check for a million dollars or Sam Jackson, but it's how we cultivate our community and that within our walls, if we talk and engage community from a standpoint that they're our investor, that every butt in this seat represents sustainability and represents capitalization and growth of our organization, that your seat that you're sitting in is actually gold. So for me, the biggest takeaway was the way we get there is together and the way we get there is not pie in the sky outside of ourselves, but going back to what Ruben said is how much does it matter to you? My mother used to say, learn to love yourself and that always seems like a concept that's out, like I love myself. No, if you love yourself, you will sit in that seat. If you love yourself, you will bring somebody in. If you love yourself, you will say $10 a month to National Black Theater or Congo Square or whatever our theaters are in our community. $10 a month, every month for all of our Facebook, if $10 a month for all of our Facebook followers for MBT would mean $40,000 a year of revenue would be coming in here, would be earned income from just buying a ticket. It's our sustainability is really in our hands. So I guess that's what I would say about Catalyst, one of the things that came out of there. Thank you. I don't have too much more to add to that, just that from Catalyst folks want an organized infrastructure. So no more, gone are the days of, we've talked about it, we've talked about it. No, we're talking, we need a couple of million dollars so that we can get some infrastructure together to systematize and operationalize this ongoing support. So they're talking about really tangible things like a sustainability fund for theaters that might need to access it. More coordinated resource sharing, training, leadership development for the next generation. Oh, the list is long, but a key part of it is coordinated for all the things that you've been talking about, Ruben, that they want to systematize that in a way that will allow it to live on and not just leave when the individuals that are most passionate about it leave. Thank you. All right, questions from the audience and where's Abigail? Are there questions from Twitter too? If you have a question, there's a mic right over there. We've got a question. Hello, beautiful people. It's been wonderful listening. I've been to a lot of meetings, but I want to say thank you all for having the conversation because we need to rediscover, we need to actually take all of our masks in the room and not be afraid to look at each other for what we really look like. James Baldwin once said, that you don't tell life, life tells you. I like the how. What can we get from you, the catalysts folk, on one thing that we can do when we leave this room? Because we hear so much, but just as a theatergoer, a lover theater, what can we do when we leave this space that can help this initiative? You said the $5, black colleges happen to do that now. Everybody has to begin to do that. But what other things that we can give that might help the collective from different states from Chicago and LA and all the other places and particularly starting basically here? That's my question. What can we do? So I'll let you close out with this because you'll be more specific. I can tell you what the theaters in the room said that they would appreciate. First of all, know that they exist. Where are your black theaters? Know who they are. Visit them. Support them. And then ask what it is they might need. So one of the things that happened over the several days of conversations was just a wonderful, brilliant session of resource sharing. Anybody know a good webmaster? Does anybody know a pro bono webmaster? Right now, if you are a good webmaster, if you could know a good one who can offer pro bono services, please contact Mr. King. He's looking for somebody right now. So there are ways that folks can offer their services and support to support black theaters. So what's one thing you can do is know who the black theaters are, find out what their season is, buy a ticket or two and attend and then find out if you can be more involved, maybe a volunteer, maybe a board member, somebody who can offer the services that you have. Community accountability is important. I'm gonna say something that's probably not popular, but I'm gonna say stop judging and roll up your sleeves. I mean, that's real, that's real, real. I think all too often we judge aesthetic, we judge, you know, it didn't start on time, we judge what the ticket looked like. This did not. And if all of those things matter, then do something about it, roll up your sleeves and do something about it. So that's one. And then I would say, but that's just me personally, out of catalyst, what I would say is some of the themes that came out was a lot of our institutions have either founding boards or boards that support the aesthetic of what's happening, but being an active, impactful, give, get board is something that we could all use, not all of us, but a lot of us can use some support with. So what you can do is if you think that you are a potential great board member or know people within your community who are passionate about theater but haven't been engaged, I think on a board level, talking to the institutions from that standpoint would be very helpful as well. Hello, good evening. I have a question for the panel. As a young artist, a recent graduate student myself in the past year, I would like to know who do we go to? Where are the mentors? We spoke of the each one, teach one. All I can say from my own personal experience, I spent hours on a computer trying to find things, looking for places like this to go to. There is no information out there, especially coming from mostly a white institute where I was two of the only, they just throw you out to the wind and don't tell you where the resources are because my classmates path is totally different from mine. And I knew that and I know that coming in, especially as artists who wants to do certain type of work coming from an HBCU from Texas, I found my first passion with a group of young black artists who we made it to state as the only African-American school to do so from my area in years just because of passion and we did everything on ourselves. And I want to get that back, give that back, I want to find a home where I can do that. I just don't know how. Where are the mentors? The people give them back. And I'll leave this here. That's interesting. You know, a lot of the young actors say that, where are the mentors? And it's a few of us out here and I consider myself one, I got a big cash, I got so many that I don't even know how I even have time for my own kids. And that's the honest to God truth. And it's, we, my generation need to do better. When you do much better. And you have some out here, you have the Michelle Shays and the Felicia Rashards and you have these people out here and then they're at War Room, people like that. And I think by being persistent, by being present, I think you find these people and you let yourself onto them. I mean, Karen Perry, my costume designer has been mentoring people. I didn't have any room in my room in my last production for any, I didn't have another seat in there. People getting grants to come and sit in the room, other people that my assistants, other actors, you know, people I've been carrying forever. And Karen had a guy push in the wardrobe, the rehearsal wardrobe clothes and he stood and stayed there for the whole thing. And at the end of it, he was the guy she'd been trying to bring in the room. He just worked himself in the room and he'd been with me ever since. And it's like he was just persistent and present. And it's like when the prayer circle came at the end of rehearsal, I said, what's your name? Give me his name, I said, oh, this the guy, huh? Get in the circle, welcome to the family. But it's like, it's so unorthodox and we all, every individual in here, there's a wonderful gentleman back there, Michael Denwitte, who's a great mentor. You got, it's like, it's so many of us just make yourself present, make yourself available. There's a young brother here who's been chasing me Clint Lowe for the longest. And I haven't had, and I haven't, because he's passionate. And eventually he's going, me and him got to lock up because I'm not ignoring him. I'm waiting for the timing. And it's like, you stay present and you're looking for something, you're home. Did you hear what Jonathan said when he introduced you? He meant that. I want to say, I thank the MBT and Jonathan as well in the series, the Keep Soul Alive series. As actor, I was hosting my acting and I wanted to go back to my first passion of writing and to have the opportunity to be a part of the Keep Soul Alive series in October is one of the most amazing things and in New York and I thank you guys for having those type of venues. I just want to add. Can I just ask one question? In this room right now, it's a lot of artists. It's a lot of young folks. It's a lot of middle, it's a little bit older, old like me. But will the mentors in this room please stand up just so I can let her know that we're here? Charles, Stephanie. I'm just seeing this Paul Carter-Harrison. All of us, I mean, this Kwame, these people have theaters. There's a brother back here from Memphis got his own theater. We're here, but you make yourself present and don't be shy. We need you. You're who we're talking about nurturing and bringing. It's you. You're gonna run all this. We're getting long in the tooth, I am. You know what I'm saying? So we need you. And so stay for the reception after because you can meet each and every one of them. I want to just add to that. Before you walk away, I want to, because I think that's one part of it too, the individual mentors. And I do know that individual mentors, the one-on-one mentoring is really powerful, but I've also heard from a lot of folks that the capacity sometimes is challenging. So I want to just, right next to you is David Mitchell. Is that you, David Mitchell? Yes. And I want to just share, this is that he has a really great program at Arena Players. It's a leadership development program that is designed with a curriculum to support and leadership development is just another word of, you know, for mentoring. It has a powerful structure curriculum. So I'd like to offer that as a resource. I'd like to also say that TCG has put their dollars where their values are, and they have a program that used to be called Young Leaders of Color, which is now called Spark. Please go on the TCG website and take a look at that Spark program. It is a 10-month long leadership development program that talks about the business of theater for a young leader of color. So I agree that the one-on-one mentoring is important and if you can get yourself a wonderful mentor, Ruben's extended himself to you, so he's definitely, you're gonna wanna, but in addition to that, there are some institutionally supported leadership programs that really, the value of that is that you're part of a cohort that you will have access to and a relationship and network to that really will add exponentially. I could go on. What we should do is create a list of these kind of mentoring programs because this is not the first time we've had this asked. That's a brilliant question. Thank you, thank you, Carmen. I'm gonna do one more question here and then I've got a couple Twitter questions. Great, thank you all so much. This is incredible. Really, I'm buzzing right now. One of the reasons why I love National Black Theater so much is the immersive experience I always have here when I come as an audience member from the elevator to the lobby to the theater itself. I saw Dutchman here and it was surround sound, lights around me, it was so enriching and incredible. And so my question is about aesthetic and about this question of sustainability and recognizing that we're in, one of the reasons why theaters are struggling across the range, whether they be majority wider or more ethnic, whatever, is because of the changing aesthetics of our media culture, et cetera, et cetera. And I'm wondering what kind of conversations might have been had over the week about how theaters are addressing that in their work and what ways that they're transforming in terms of what it means to present theater, who is considered to be a theater artist even. And I myself, for example, I have my MFA in acting, but I have my background in writing and poetry and I call myself a theater artist. I can't say I'm one or the other or one of five roles that I could potentially have. So what kind of conversations have been had over the week about that? Well, I'd like to open it up to just conversations we've had in general. One sentence about what was discussed in the week was, folks said diversity prevails. My aesthetics. I'll just say very quickly, we actually took a lot of that off the table for the majority of the time because we thought it was a distraction to what we were there to do, which was talk about our business models and to get down deep and dirty about how we sustain from an infrastructural capacity standpoint and that the aesthetic didn't really matter and that in those conversations, that question can be a distraction from what's going on in your book. So I will say that. And what we decided was that the criteria that got everybody in the room was sufficient enough to be what we said black theater was, but to what Carmen said, the consensus was that there was a lot of diversity in the way that we spoke about that. But that's just from the week. Can you go to the microphone so the people that are live know? I'm just saying this, in terms of what we're seeing on Broadway right now with the revival of white authored plays that are with black bodies. So I actually think that that in itself is an aesthetic, but it's actually a really good business model. I mean, ask the producer, right? So I would like for that to be sort of something that's on the table as well. When we think about black, white play is being done with black bodies on top. Like for example, Count on the Hot 10 Roof or Streetcar Named Desire, because I think that's like an aesthetic as well. The drama on Broadway, literally about 80% of the time does not make money, period. So everybody's looking for a star vehicle. But the thing is, if we don't produce our own work, no one else is. If we don't produce our writer, no one else, it's no one else's responsibility. So when big corporations that I'll leave nameless at this point, go to theater companies and mainly white theater companies and say, give me first dibs at the stuff you're developing. Here's a certain amount of money. That money sustains them for a while. Those we have to entice corporations that have the same attraction to our work. We sell, we do, we sell very well. And if you can sell Bubble Yum in Fords over in Europe, you can sell our work when it's fine. We just gotta make sure our work is fine. You young actors gotta keep working. Keep your art out, you keep working your art. But we have to find that business model where it's important. And that's why I try to approach the executives that look like me, first of all, and I find out that it's less important to them than it is, you know, other people. But the thing is, we have to take chance. Broadway is a risk period, period. So if you do Cat on the Hot Tin Roof or Jitney, which I'm trying to get up, you're gonna take the risk. What horse are you betting on is the thing. But if these Broadway producers start nurturing from this level, then they create their own. They create their own champion, their own, develop it and disseminate it to the largest audience they possibly can. And Reuben, can I just build on a question specifically for Aliyah from Twitter, from at Shea Wafer, from 651 Arts. Hey Shea, she had to get back to Brooklyn. She's tired. She's been part of the Catalyst group. But she asked of Aliyah, are you currently working within a nonprofit black theater to develop a new play? I think that was specifically for you. I hope that's right, Shea. So there's an opportunity. Do you wanna elaborate about that? No, actually, I sit on the board of the New World Theater Project, which is, I don't think it would be classified as a black theater. And the reason that they approached me speaks to the question of culture-conscious casting in plays that are not written necessarily for African-American actors, but they translate Yiddish plays and then cast them with black actors. And so that was a part of why they approached me. But what I find interesting is that, my perspective in coming into this business that I'm in now was, of course, profitability, but also to create more opportunity for actors of color and for all of the company. And so when we started Front Row Productions, we were looking at diversifying backstage as well as on the stage. And that was our objective. And that's what we sought to do. The conversation about black plays, the conversation about producing white plays with black bodies, I think that there is space for all of that. I think that we've created a niche. We've created a niche market that we've gone after because we find that there's an audience for what we do. But at the same time, there's an audience for many different things on Broadway, off Broadway. And from our perspective, it's about profitability and about nurturing an audience that has supported black theater in the past and will continue to support black theater if presented in a way that they are ready to come out and support it. I just wanted to, can I respond to that too, Kwame? Thank you. You're gonna let her, okay. You go. I would say I've been asked and I've been asked by the Herald Washington Cultural Center in Chicago, Illinois to work with them. And so we've been exploring opportunities to work on something there. I just want to say that my question was about aesthetic was actually I'm interested in the way in which that impacts community engagement in the work, that in terms of the business model being also about what you're saying about cultivating a donorship that's not millionaires but people who are invested in it. What does it mean for a theater to have family space and intergenerational space that's also but aesthetically relevant in the current moment? And that's sort of where my question was coming from. If there's anything that. Thank you. Thank you. Do you want to? No? I didn't want to feel like I was being prejudice against by not being able to speak. Oh no, go ahead, ask your question. So I come to this from a marketing perspective because that's my background. And I asked God why I was sent to Harlem and now I know why. So I'd like to share a little story, couple stories. One is I worked for Marianne Williamson on her campaign and wondered why she didn't win. And she said, had everybody that owned a yoga mat contributed $5, she might have won. And then I walked across the street and I just moved here a week ago, but I'm from Detroit, so I'm really black. I have, I'm white on the outside, but I'm really black on the inside. And so I walked across the street and I saw this fabulous health food store. And I also heard that Whole Foods was moving in. And I thought to myself, how are we gonna keep this little health food store from disseminating, from leaving the planet? And I realized if they became a co-op and they got community support and people were got invested in them being there, they wouldn't have to leave. And I look at this theater and I've worked with theater companies. I've worked with cultural creatives for the past 30 years. I've made people millionaires in two hours by understanding what they needed to do. And how to diversify. And I would love to speak with you about helping National Black Theater. Thank you, thank you. Any other, I'm gonna do one more question that's been sitting here from Twitter from at Reynolds Knopf. How can the black theater and black film making community support one another? Any ideas, thoughts, response? Ruben? Well, you can talk about it. Black theater is not important to the black film making community if you really look at it. They really don't care about us. I've been fortunate enough to travel and do enough film and TV to support my theater. But if you notice, for the last 30 some years I've been in New York. And the reason I'm in New York not just because of the quality of the life because of theater. Because if I don't do theater, I'm gonna die. And when it's that important to you, it's not important to Hollywood. We do not nurture them. We do not feed them. They do not make our plays into movies, rarely. We as writers, we as writers can make our plays into movies. But Hollywood is not coming looking for our plays to make them into movies. So it is not important to them. How do we make it important to them? You know, that's the question. Who does come and invest in the new work that they're doing here, the new work that they're doing in classical theater Harlem, the new work that they're doing anywhere. Our writers and our work. But if we don't produce our writers, they just go teach somewhere and they quit writing. And they have to keep writing so we can have our images told by us so we can hold up the measuring stick so we can measure up. I would say really briefly, there might not be a relationship but I think there's an opportunity for a relationship. And I was talking to David Allen Greer, the other, this was years ago, it was when there was a blackout at the Oscars and he was being interviewed by CNN. He was all fired up and he was talking to me before he went on air. And the statement he wanted to make about Black Hollywood and the blackout was that the next great actor that you're not seeing on your stage came from, I mean, seeing on the big screen, came from these theaters, right? Chadwick Boseman who's in, what's he in right now? James Brown who was also Jackie Robinson. I mean, he came out of New Federal, he came out of Black Theater. If you look at any of our really big black film stars, they, most of them were nurtured in black institutions. So that's just like the tunnel from our stages to the big screen happened in these grass root ways and grass root moments. So if you wanna know why they're not more, and obviously there's intrinsic racism, but why there's not more black actors, you also have to look at how are we nurturing in which, where they come from. And there is a correlation. I guess that's what I'm trying to say. There is a correlation how we take care of our institutions that nurtured, that get them young, nurture them, get that passion, and how they then pursue it moving forward. So I think there needs to be more of a correlation because we are the pipeline to, in a lot of cases, the black film world with talent. But Shardy, that's idea, we do, we are nurtured. And if you look at all the really, over the few decades, all of them have come, but do they come back? Because every producer wants to know which one of them you have. They have to come back. And so when I have conversations with them and you and a lot of people in this room, and I keep saying, y'all gotta come back. And it just can't be in you starring in something. As a producer, as an ensemble member, as an advocate, you have to come back. Because we come out of the nest and we boom, we gone. But who comes back? How you doing? My name is Nathan, for anybody who doesn't know me. First of all, I wanna say thank you for even having this. Because a lot of these conversations happen in the shadows and in the background, but we never come together and actually sit down and talk about some of these things. And I noticed that's something that you said to the young lady a minute ago about, she said she just got here from out of town, she's got out of grad school. Where are the mentors? And I wanted to talk about the generation gap. Because for somebody who has been coming up in black theater since the 90s and have been to the black theater network and have been to the national black theater, I'm one of the people who have actually chased after our mentors. There are a lot of us who go up to our mentors and ask for that tutelage, ask for that knowledge and ask for those gems and are either ignored or shunned. And I've either heard a lot of elders say that they don't respect the writing of our new generation. So you have great writers like Dennis Allen right here. You have great writers like Eric Lockley who have these amazing things coming out. But we keep doing shows from the 1960s and we keep doing shows from slavery town in the 1800s. So I wanted to know what do we do to get through to our elders, to get them to accept this? Because we keep giving these trailblazing awards but it feels like the elders keep filling dirt back into the path for us to blaze it for ourselves. You know what I mean? So how do we get through as a generation? Like how do we convince the elders to unite with us so that we can get on the same page and have a legacy? I'm glad you mentioned that intergenerational moment where I'm calling to you. No, no, I'm just glad this came up. Go ahead. Brother, I'm not sure. I certainly recognize the perspective that the younger generation is saying that, you know, I'm just not seeing the bottom of the ladder that you're not putting it. I have to say from within, and it's always very difficult to even acknowledge that one is part of the status quo rather than from the outside because it's so much cooler being outside. The discussions that I have with black people within the industry, I'm finding it difficult to link it, and I'm not saying that your experience is not true. And forgive me, this is not about me self-aggrandizing, but from the day that I became an artistic director, I created an artistic directing chair, intern chair, and that post would always go to someone of color. That I'm not the only one that has done that. There are nearly every, and I didn't make it up. It's because there are several of us who are on the inside who have actually done just that. So I'm not sure, I think there may be, I think there's a communication issue that's happening here. Because I know that we on the inside are certainly not, and I hate it again, we on the inside, whatever that inside may be, but are certainly not looking at the young and saying we think what you're doing is not good or is not. It goes back to that question of aesthetic. There is no single black voice, there is no single black aesthetic. There is taste. And if what X produces is not to my taste, because it's black doesn't mean that I want to produce it, or doesn't mean that I'm forced to produce it. So I think that actually the debate should be about how do we communicate across the generations? Because I actually think that there is some really very positive thinking, but in both generations or multiple generations. We just need to find a way of articulating and actually amplifying. Well, I think if it shows, if it sucks, it sucks. You know what I mean? So I don't think that you should just produce a black play from somebody from the young generation just because they're black. You know what I'm saying is I've personally heard a lot of elders actually say and actually come out of their mouths and say what they feel about the writers of our generation versus the writers of old and why they refuse to do those things. And I know that the work that's coming out of your theater company, I mean it's stellar. And I know that you are not included in that. And I don't really even see anybody in this room right now who we really need to have this conversation with who actually say these things. You know me, but how do we get them to come to the table with us and work with us instead of against it? And forgive me, can I just say one other thing? I think that we often find ourselves in a false binary of work of old and work that is contemporaneous. And actually no other culture does that. You don't have to kill the past in order to validate the present. And we must be very careful. For me, I love sitting in plays that are written in the 1960s and I adore sitting in plays that are written in 2015, the ones that will be written tomorrow. I love the notion of it because I stand on my past and I swim into my future. So I think we have to, the anger that may be engendered by having people, I would say a minority, articulate distrust for the younger generation must not push us into killing the old or killing the shoulders in which we stand on. I had a debate happen the other day and it sent me crazy about August Wilson and how that's old black playwriting and then there's new black playwriting and I was like, what the hell are you talking about? I don't hear people say Tennessee Williams is old white playwriting and blah, blah, blah, it's new black writing, I don't hear it because you honor it and you stand on its shoulders and you define yourself by saying I can do that and then just give it a little twist and we must be careful not to reinvent the wheel, my brother, and the feel that we have to do it. We stand on shoulders and classic work and contemporary classic work and new work sits in the same body of artistic expression. Now, I show you. I want to, oh, 60 seconds. Can you do it? No. Okay, are you sure, you want to go? Another thing, another reason we keep doing plays from the 60s is because they don't teach you young kids that come out of school now and anything about that. No one knows about theater award, our land and no one knows about great-back daddy and nobody knows about, you know, they don't know these plays. So we have to teach them, you know, somebody asked me- No, we do know these things but it feels like the elder generation doesn't want to embrace what we're doing. I don't want to kill the past but it feels like elders are trying to kill the future sometimes because they don't want to let go of it. Whatever elders told you that, we resent them because they're not elders. You know, we're not nurturing and bringing you on which is our future that we're not doing our job and the other thing is this, man, you know, when Brandon Durden, who's one young man that I've mentored, you know, and I say to him and he asked me, so what's your idea of a theater company? Will, have you ever opened up your theater company? I said it'd be a centerpiece theater company. It'd have one centerpiece production which would be a classic production defined by us, not by some room of six white guys and on both sides, it would be two new productions and on the other two sides, it'd be an international black play and a play from the United States somewhere around the United States. It'd be five plays, one classic, two new and one from any other black regional theater that we choose and one international black theater. In 1977, we went to Nigeria to Festac. Every black artist in the world came down there. We don't do that anymore. So I'm saying we need some of the new and we need some of the old, just what you're saying. But we gotta, you're lucky if you learned about these writers, you're very lucky, you know, because they don't teach it. And can I just, sorry, I know, just jumping in. Finally, I would just say that the elders that said that, I guaranteed that if you take Ruben's email and my email, that within a day, that we'll hit them up hard and say, make sure that you don't make our young feel that we don't care about them because you are our everything. Hit me your email, I'll write to them hardcore. Thank you. At the reception. We're gonna take, Jonathan said we could take these last few questions about five more minutes. So one single question if you can. How you doing? Good evening. Hi. I'm Clinton Lowe. We were shot at our earlier. Grandson of Gloria Nichols. I have a question that's rhetorical unless you haven't answered. And I love National Black Theater. I'm a big supporter. Jonathan Shadek said I love the black theater community. But something that keeps pulsating in my chest when I come to these forums or read blogs or go to shows is we're the folk. Like this whole week was closed. That's fine. It's prerogative. But why? And you don't have to answer. But that's what pulsates in me. And even if it's not everybody in the room, we're the people who represent 125th Street. Where's Amy Ruth at? I don't mean the Soulful Restaurant. Where's Amy Ruth? Where's Grandma Ma? Where's Pookie from the Block? Where is the MFA people as well as those who got their PhDs in the street and everything in between? Because that's the people who we say we want to tell these stories for. But they don't got no flyers. They don't know who we are. I get a flyer, an email every month from Signature and St. George's and a bunch of other places I can give an F about. Try to keep it clean as kids here. But where are the folk? The people. Because my experience in the black theater community is bougie-ness looking down on those who aren't good enough. And Shadeh, you said it earlier about not being judgmental. And I would take it a step further beyond what the ticket looks like. What about that dude walking down the block? Why does he not know what MBT is? If I go outside right now, everybody within a mile radius should know that this place is here, what they're doing, what's going on. And that's not just MBT. I feel like MBT is probably at the top of the scale. Most people have no idea who we are or what we're doing. And that has nothing to do with, forgive me, white marketer is coming and saying I'm gonna pump you up and put you out into the world. F all that. We don't need all that. We've been doing this since 1841, 41, 21, even further. Since 1821, we've been doing it ourselves. And I bet you in 1821, all the black folk in New York City knew what play was going on. I bet you money, I put my life on it. But if I go down right down to Apollo Theater, John John and Teresa and all of them, they don't know nothing about MBT. They don't know nothing about New Federal. They don't know nothing about classical theater Harlem. That's my question. Where are the folk? Where are the people? Again, sorry to jump into the mic. But I think something, a question was asked earlier, what can we each do in order to help sustain our black theater? And I think when we ask ourselves, where are the folk? My answer to that, and I didn't answer at the time, is that each one, it's more than each one teach one. It's each one must bring one. And so for instance, at my theater, I have a demographic where my African-American audience are of a certain age. And I'm noticing that their children are not coming to the theater. So I have a program that's going to be happening with one of our plays that we think will appeal specifically to that demographic, but universally to everyone, that to say, if you bring your son or a family member, your second ticket is half price. Trying to encourage each one to bring one. So I would say to you, sir, does John John and whoever, whatever, know, then are you telling? Not you personally, but is each one of us saying, have you been to the theater lately? Come along with me. I go all of the time, but come along with me. So that each one brings one. I appreciate the solution. I appreciate, and I won't say my last point. I appreciate the solution. I think that is one of them. But also to give my own solution, so it's not just a call out or complaint, is I personally feel like we're not knocking on doors. We ain't serious. If I look at the history of the civil rights movement, if I look at the black arts movement in the 70s, if I look at the successful theater companies or the successful... Can I interrupt for one second? I think what you're bringing up is a really incredible point. And it comes back to some of the stuff we talked about in Catalyst, and I'll say very briefly, it was closed because there was recognition that in our community there needed to be some healing, there needed to be some mask taking off so we could get to the truth of who we are and where we are, and that didn't need to happen in a public way. So that was the answer to that question. And to where you were going, I would say that all too often our marketing dollars are the first dollars to be cut from our budget. So you're saying you get a flyer every month from Signature, that's because they have a robust marketing budget. When we get cut, those are the first items, and this is just business talk, those are the first items to get cut. And so that's why you may not see in every, you're not getting communicated to the way you would like to be communicated to. And I would say in terms of knocking on doors, that's totally on point, and it is a capacity issue. So when we start talking about our black theaters, we really have to be looking at capacity and building capacity, and all too often that starts with volunteers. I mean, Catalyst was a four day convening that we on our dime put up these theaters from around the country. And we had a seamless staff that from the time you woke up to the time you went to bed, you were nurtured, you were taken care of, you were fed, you were listened to, and half of our staff is volunteers. So that's what I'm saying. And you would never know it. So those are the people that are gonna knock on the door. And the more volunteers that come in, you know, they're the core staff. And then the next set, they're the ones knocking on doors. And then the next set are the ones calling people on the phone. So it really is an issue of capacity. And our institutions are trying so hard to do the work that getting the work out there sometimes falls by the wayside, I would agree with you. And what I'm saying is that when I say your seat is gold, it's not just seeing a play to your point, what you were saying earlier. It is engaging with these institutions as community, not just as ticket buyers, but as people who, I mean, all of the people who greeted you today, they're, for the most part, volunteers. It's really showing up. And what showing up looks like is not just there to see a brilliant piece or, but be engaged by our lobby. Want to sell concessions. I mean, really, the strategies that you're talking about really depend on capacity, and capacity depends on you guys' involvement. I've got to take these last two questions. Let me just, please. One thing, yeah. Go ahead. I know, Clint, what you said about not needing, we do need her. Anybody, any color. I'm telling you, don't, I'm just saying, I can't be here on the ground. Anybody, any color that has the ideology that we have to have the ideas and are going to support what we have and can bring it in and make it work, we need them. We need her, and we need, and I'm not going to push anybody away because of their color, if they're supporting what I'm trying to do, supporting it and getting behind it and giving their heart and soul, we need you and anybody else that want to get down with us. I'm not talking about color. I'm talking about self-sufficient. We're not doing it right now. We're not self-sufficient, we should be. I would say, in following your footsteps and in Kwame's, like, had I got a call or email, which is Clinton low at Hotmail, L-O-W-E, I would be here. And I would have bought 10, 15 people to pass out flyers for free. I'm not talking about the budget to send me to even, I ain't talking about that. I don't need that. I'm saying, I am. Can I just, Clint? Let me finish real quick. I'm saying that a lot of us are like that. There's a lot of people in this room like that. And that's how it is with the folk who do live in the projects down the street in Manhattanville. They don't come because they're not asked. I didn't do it because I wasn't asked. But if you ask me, and I'll spread the word to my folk who don't know nothing about no theater, but they'll show up in droves because Clinton low said be here. Be at MB2. But I, yeah, I just wanted to say that, you know, that's my takeaway from this discussion here tonight. That first understanding where all the black theaters are in this country. I mean, I've come in contact with several of them just through communication, people reaching out, people connecting. But first understanding where they all are and then reaching out to them because they don't have the capacity to ask and they're not gonna be able to send out, you know, requests on a regular basis. So I mean, that's my takeaway from tonight that it's my responsibility to show up and offer support in any way that I can. So. Thank you. Last two questions. Go ahead. Hello. To support what these gentlemen just said here. He has a lot of energy and he has a lot of passion. And I think about it from 47, I don't have that much energy and passion. But sitting here looking at you all, I see that there's a very strong network. And in fact, using you guys as a chain, you're an actress, right? And you are a playwright, black player. There's tons of black playwrights, right? And then of course, you do music, right? There's a lot of independent black musicians who can score them and score your plays, right? And you, and you, yeah? You're a black filmmaker. We use you to make some trailers that we can actually put online and get the information out. You, you do blogs and you do things online and let everybody know what's going on. By the time it gets over to England, it has actually something that it can actually show to people over in England. And on top of that, we can also make an exchange thing where you can actually send some plays over from England and we can actually produce them here and back and forth. By the time it gets over to Hollywood, it's like, well, have you heard of the black theater network? Well, they got a million hits on YouTube. Of course I know about them. So I'm just trying to say that, using you guys as a template for that, right? Even the three in the middle, think about this, selling the play, selling it as a video, selling it as a radio to give us, you know, as a, you know, audios to give us some, you know, revenue that's self-contained that goes back into the... Bro, what do you, what's your point? You said I'm being gave all these stereotypes. You gave all these stereotypes that are all absolutely incorrect and you have not come to a point to set anything positive that can help us. Well, tell us what we, what's your idea of what we can do. I'm just trying to say don't make videos. No, sir, I know you don't make videos. No, I do not help make videos. I am an artist. Sir, I know that, but there's actually a lot of websites to have to do with it. This man is not England. This man got a theater in Baltimore. Sir, I understand what you're saying, but I'm trying to say that there's a lot of websites where there's a lot of independence who would interact with the community. I mean, with what's happening here. And they would bring their people, just like he said. I think he's just saying we have a community that we need to rely on. We have a big community. We have a big community. That's perfect. I want to say is why don't we tap into this? Brother, if I may, and I think you're absolutely right and thank you for your articulations that we are a community and there is a network. And let me be honest. When I got the job as artistic director at Center Stage in Baltimore, one of the first things I did, I came up to New York and I was downstairs and Ruben pulled me to the side at the theater. He was in Stick Fly and he said, brother, and he didn't know me. He'd never seen me before. It was the first time I knew him. I adored him in his work. And the first thing you did is just sidle up to me and just say, brother, if you need me to come down to Baltimore at any time, be in a fundraiser, help you do anything, know that I'm there. So, you know, the brothers just, you know, this network does exist and we are kind of, Elia says a playwright had a play and Elia wanted to send it via a regional in order to help it grow and develop. And she called me and she said, look, I've got this writer who I'd love to see if you guys can have a relationship and African-American writer. And so actually the network that you're talking to and that you speak about actually is happening and it's not just amongst us here, it's amongst many others within the business. So sir, I think your right to help us amplify that in fact it is about network and we are, I think, many of us in this room. I mean, I'll just say, Stephanie, who's sitting there, Stephanie's a magnificent actor and I reach out to her and I say, I've got this play and my audience love you down in Baltimore. Well, you come down and play and she comes down and she plays for the money, for the money that ain't that or all of that. But you'll say, I'm coming to contribute in order to help and she was magnificent. We have a network and I think that we're moving forward with amplifying that network day by day. So thank you, sir. I do get that part. Can we just, I think, I'm sorry, we're running out of time. I just have to get the last question. Is that okay? Thank you. Thank you for your understanding. Thank you. All right, you're the last question, Malcolm. Good evening. My name is Malcolm Darrow. I represent MKDR's management. I was here part of Catalyst. Thank you so much for the amazing convening. I'm from Los Angeles and at the beginning of the convening we had a ceremony where we talked about what we represent. And I represent so much, including, you know, being raised in South Central LA, having gone to college, having cousins who don't have high school diplomas and being educated Ivy League University. So for me, this conversation, there's such a duality for those of us who feel what you're saying, brother, about our community and then all of those of us who are in this place of privilege. What I would like to leave tonight with is a tangible solution example because I know we love to talk and we love to converse but I'd like for us to leave with a tangible example. And one of the things that came up earlier was this idea of what if, Shade eloquently gave us a vision of what if all of the Facebook followers of MBT gave $10, it would be $40,000. And then I thought to myself, will all of us at some time during the week do some frivolous spending? I have to imagine that some of us spend $5 on something that is probably not going towards our basic needs. So in honor of the tradition of the Black Church, I would like to personally start off by giving $5 out of my pocket to National Black Theater today to say that we need to put our money where our mouth is and start giving to our institutions and as a symbolism of my appreciation for what you all have done this week, it's not a lot of money but it's to say that that's what I can do is give what's out of my pocket right now. And I would encourage anybody who else who came here to enjoy this discussion to uplift Black Theater in America to the least we could do is give $5 or whatever's in our pocket to say thank you, we're going to live, we're going to thrive, we're going to survive and that's all I have to say. And I'm gonna put that on the altar right here. Put it right there. Thank you. No, no, okay. Just wanna say thank you and while you're getting out your money I think Jonathan is gonna come up here and close. Thank you. All right, all right. Yes. Donation station. I love it. That's how we end a conference. All right, all right. Woo! All right. There's a lot to be said and there's a lot to actually celebrate and acknowledge and while generosity and grace is guiding everyone to this place, this place of grace, this place of acknowledgement, this place of community, this place of understanding that Black Theater is an extension of your support, your continued support of our legacy and of our institution. National Black Theater's been here for 46 years not because of one iconic donor but because people in the seats understood the gold that it had from a founder, Dr. Barbara Antier who gave her life to the embodiment of manifesting authentic representations of her people and giving them a home to articulate themselves. So, with that, I would advise you to check out the altar that we created that was created that has a manifestation of everything that we've kind of talked about throughout this entire four-day convening. You want to know what was done privately, that's an access point into it. We're not trying to hide and I will tell you that from Catalyst, there will be a disseminating document that will be a prospectus document about what happened for the four days. There will be a survey that we will do to get the actual analytic data of what is the state of Black Theater and then there will be at last a toolkit. Our two facilitators, Carmen Morgan and Ebony Golden, will create a toolkit that will be disseminated to the field so that the information that was given in the private is not private. We're not trying to create tokens here. We're trying to create systematic change that actually allows for liberation of consciousness and thought of our business models. All right, so I'm gonna get off my soapbox and with that, I'm gonna close this out and what we do here is that we do a unifying breath. Oh, yeah? Oh, okay. Outside, you'll see a reception. I'm sorry people didn't come, but outside there is a reception and we invite you to come to mingle, connect, talk, tell stories, figure out what we did, figure out how you can be a part of all of that stuff and I also invite you to make this your home. Make a Black Theater in your community your home. I mean, I wanna take this real quick. This was on the altar and I think you could exchange the word Harlem for wherever you are. Exchange the word Harlem for wherever you are and find that Black institution and keep that fire burning. That's what Catalyst is all about. That is what we were charged to do and so with that, I would love for everyone to plant their feet solid on the ground, two feet on the ground. We're gonna take a unifying breath. Anyone who is out there in Ethernet land, if you would join us, that would be appreciated because it's a unifying global movement that we're trying to create here. And we're gonna take a unifying breath breathing in the fire that we want to burn, breathing in the life we want to give to our future generations, not just our present because we have a responsibility as living, breathing human beings for the future, not for the past, sometimes for the present, but we are here to establish a future. So at the count of three, I'm asking you to take a deep breath in to breathe in that fire. When you exhale, exhale the passion and desire for that fire to move on to the next human being that's gonna inhale that breath, inhale your passion, take over the torch that you're gonna pass. So at the count of three, one, two, three, and exhale. Ache, thank you. Sorry, can I forgive?