 Welcome to another edition of Thinking Things Through, Thinking Critically in Critical Times. I'm your host, Michael Sukoff. Today we have with us Albi Miles, Assistant Professor of Sustainable Community Food Systems at the University of Hawaii, West O'ahu. We're going to be discussing the future of food towards transforming the food system in the US. Welcome to the show, Albi. Thank you for having me. Great. Now you've done a lot of work on the relationship between farming system, the agricultural system, and obstacles to achieving ecologically sustainable and socially just food and farming systems. Is there anything you'd briefly like to add about your background and interests? Sure, a few things by way of introduction. My doctoral degree was in environmental science, policy, and management from UC Berkeley. And while at Berkeley, we set up what was called the Center for Diversified Farming Systems. That was a major research center looking at ecologically based agriculture and the environmental advantages of diversified farming systems that led into the formation. What's now called the Berkeley Food Institute, a major research center within the University of California system that serves to advance ecological sustainability and social equity in the food system at the regional, national, and international level. Other than that, I would just share that before I was at Berkeley, I spent a decade at what's called the UC Santa Cruz Center for Agroecology and Sustainable Food Systems. There I worked at the nation's oldest organic farming training program. And again, it was a major research center focused on advancing ecological sustainability and social equity economic development in the center coast food system along California's center coast. The only other thing I would share is there's a number of projects and I think we'll drop a couple of those into the chat. One is an initiative called Transforming Hawaii's Food System Together. It's a food system planning initiative, grassroots and participatory in nature. And we're attempting to outline what are some key integrated approaches to advancing ecological sustainability, social equity, food system resilience in Hawaii. Great, I'll be, thanks so much. Well, let's just dive right in. So you mentioned the term food system. What is the food system? So when I speak with my undergraduate students, so my program at UH West Oahu is called Sustainable Community Food Systems and I tried to help them understand the difference between agriculture, which is really the science and practice of cultivating crops and livestock and other commodities for fiber and fuel production. So the actual farming itself from the broader food system that is really best understood as a complex social, ecological and political system that encompasses all the drivers and activities and resources that goes into producing, distributing, consuming food as well as waste disposal. And it's important to understand the food system has a profound influence on public health, the economy, human culture, our ability to mitigate and adapt to climate change, its influence over biodiversity conservation and overall environmental quality. Now, you've already touched on this, but could you say a little bit more specifically, what are the key component parts of the food system and also how does that system differ from what you've called the agricultural system? Yeah, so a few key parts of the food system are include the inputs, pesticides, fertilizers, seed, labor, equipment, antibiotics, all the stuff that allows us to grow the foods and fibers that we consume. Then there's the production part, the actual farming, the raising of crops and livestock. Other elements of the food system is post-harvest handling and processing, the processing of raw commodities that goes into the manufacturer of some of our foods. Then there's distribution, how does food once produced and processed, how does it get from point A to point B, including to wholesalers and retail food outlets where we gain access to our foods. And then of course there's consumption, the actual eating of foods and then waste disposal. So after we dispose of some of our food waste, where does that end up? And at each phase in the food system as I've described it, those are important attributes that have social and ecological costs and benefits that in the modern context, I think we need to take into further consideration to modify them so that it's more socially equitable and ecologically sustainable and resilient. Now, I think you've already pretty much pointed to this, but could you say specifically what is the difference between the system you just described and the agricultural system proper? What's the difference? Yeah, so farming or agriculture is a subset in the broader food system. So when you think about the food system, it's everything from the inputs all the way through to waste disposal. The farming is really about the production of crops and livestock. So the food system is a broader social ecological system and that farming is one component of. Right, and so could you describe what you see as being the top two or three food system issues that we currently face at the global, national and local levels here in Hawaii? Sure, so I would start with kind of a broad category of the issue of social inequality in the food system and I'll describe a couple of features that I think are of particular concern. The US Department of Agriculture, their Economic Research Service, measures household food insecurity on an annual basis and they've been doing that since 1995. And prior to COVID-19, it was calculated that there's about 10 and a half percent of US households, about 30 million people, again, prior to COVID-19 who were food insecure. That is they were having a difficult time gaining access to adequate amounts of safe, affordable, healthy food to live a normal, healthy, productive life. That's how they define food security. And after the onset of COVID-19 because it had a significant impact on household income, food insecurity spiked nationally and here in Hawaii, it reached a rate of 48% of households with children. So food insecurity or food insecurity is I think a pressing issue nationally and here in Hawaii, specifically to the native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander community. We have documented in research that the native Hawaiian Pacific Islander community experiences rates of household food insecurity at a higher than the state average and their rates of chronic illness are leading to three times the rate of premature death than the average state citizen. And so food insecurity and native Hawaiian health inequities, I think are two key issues. And then as I mentioned briefly at the beginning is the food and agricultural sector because of the ways that we produce food in part and the things that we consume, the food system is one of the largest drivers of global ecological change on the planet. It produces about 30% of total global greenhouse gas emissions and because of the types of foods that we produce predominantly and the patterns of dietary consumption that are happening all over the world, increasingly we're seeing very high rates of chronic illness growing throughout the world. So there's a couple of key concerns that I have over elements of the food system. The last I'll mention is that we're entering into this period of climate destabilization. And I think we've given inadequate amount of thought and planning to how do we build resilience and equity anticipating that there's gonna be future shocks to the system. Thanks. Now you've already sort of mentioned this but could we drill down a little deeper? You're describing or writing that the food system not only is it a social and ecological system but it's a political system. So could you say a little bit more about both of those and particularly what does it mean that the food system is a political system given example? So the food system is political in that the type of food and agriculture system that we have today, including how food is produced, which foods are affordable and what we tend to consume is deeply influenced by of course the economy where we find ourselves in the economic system in terms of our income and then also public policy. So to name a few public policies that have a profound impact on the food system I'll give a couple of examples. One would be say pesticide regulation and the U.S. or in Hawaii. An example would be chlorpyrifos an organic phosphate pesticide known to impact the cognitive development of children. That was on the market and used throughout the United States continues to be used here in Hawaii though it is now being phased out. So the allowance of certain kinds of agrochemicals in agricultural production has an influence over public health. So that's an important way that public policy specifically pesticide regulation can influence environmental quality and human health. Right, and what stands out to me is the way these all these different factors are interconnected. Right, that's right. And we see a public food policy environment that is generating a set of social and ecological externalities that's leading to environmental degradation and the compromising of human health and wellbeing. And that's my principal concern. And I think that that's moving to counter some of the trends in the modern food system is what I think we should be focusing on. Great, and this beautifully leads into my next question. I mean, not only would I like to hear more about what this looks like in terms of the political obstacles to that have that the political factors that have created the insecure undressed food system we have now, what would it mean to transform our existing food system? What would that look like and how could we sort of get there? Well, I would respond to your question this way. So in terms of what the future food system could look like once transformed, I would say I would identify a couple of key goals that a future food system should enable secure access to all people, to adequate, safe, affordable and even culturally appropriate and appropriate foods and essentially a nutritious diet. That should be a universal outcome of a sustainable food system. See an economically stable base of locally owned and family farm enterprises that use more ecologically based production practices drawing from local inputs. The biocultural restoration of traditional foodways here in Hawaii I think is particularly important to the native Hawaiian population and a couple of the things I would mention would be marketing and processing practices that create greater direct links between farmers, citizens and some of our key institutions in the state. And those things, if executed would not only improve public health but would circulate more dollars in the local economy, create jobs for our local citizens and increase the rate of employment in the agri-food sector. Great, so now I'd like to transition since we're fast, not running out of time but this is a short show. So I'd like to hear more about concrete ways in which the US, you believe the US food system could be, needs to be transformed. And along with that, I have a question that maybe you can answer it in whatever you have to say. Is there something about capitalism, the kind of economic system we live under that makes it particularly difficult to make these kinds of changes? I'd love your reflections on that as well. I'll try to weave some of those things together and I'll first talk at the national level and address your inquiry around the capitalist system and then we'll drill down maybe into the Hawaii context. So I guess first at a very broad level we have a food and agricultural sector like many industries that lacks true cost accounting for our food, so we are able to produce a lot of food products relatively efficiently but there's an enormous hidden cost embodied in the foods that we consume and how they're produced. So if we receive relatively affordable or cheap foods at our local fast food chain or in our grocery store it does not account for the soil degradation or soil erosion, eutrophication or nutrient pollution of our freshwater and marine ecosystems or their contribution of agricultural commodities to greenhouse gas emissions. So we have a system of food production where a lot of social and ecological costs are hidden and externalized and society is increasingly bearing a significant cost from the foods that we consume. So in one hand it appears cheap in the marketplace but we're paying a heavy indirect cost in terms of the type of food and agricultural system that we have today. So in terms of capitalism's role in that I would argue that we under capitalist exchange relations we have the ability to objectify elements of the natural world and turn them into commodities for profit making and that profit making process tends to pass on costs, the ecological and social costs to society as opposed to bear them in the production process and internalize those costs. So that would be my kind of short answer and then I think the other element that prohibits us from making meaningful changes in the food and agricultural sector at the national level is we have a system of public policies and subsidies commodity payment programs that favor the industrial mode of production and the production of certain types of commodities that make certain types of foods, processed foods, meats, et cetera much more affordable while other foods that we know are more health promoting fresh fruits and vegetables so-called specialty crops they remain relatively expensive. And so people tend to consume the things that their household income is going to support and often that is driving people toward diets that are not as healthy as they could be. Yeah, well, so I'd like to again segue more into what would need to happen to change the food system here in Hawaii. And as you're talking about that, could you highlight some of the roadblocks that we face as citizens and attempting to transform the food system? And I'm assuming because this is a global systemic problem those changes could not just happen in Hawaii alone but they'd have to be connected with broader wider changes nationally and even globally. So what do you think about that? A few comments again at the national level one of the things that my colleagues and I have researched is the advantages of biologically diversified farming systems. So we know that biologically diversified and organic farming systems tend to deliver a range of ecological services at a far higher rates than conventional modes of production. However, if you look at the US Department of Agriculture Research budget, a very small percentage of research and development dollars goes into research and development of alternative farming systems that minimize or reduce agrochemical inputs and generate these ecological benefits. So at the federal level, we have a US Department of Agriculture funding basis that tends to favor industrial modes of production. And similar to other aspects of the food system, there's very little amount of federal dollars that is flowing into the development of state and regional food systems. And so I think at a larger political economic level the US Department of Agriculture and other federal agencies have an important role to play in terms of the allocation of funds toward the development of alternative farming systems and regional food systems. So that's at the national level. And if you'd like me to, I can turn towards some of the major challenges and opportunities today in transforming elements of the food system of Hawaii, if that would be helpful. Yeah, why don't you do that and also include what the barriers or roadblocks are? You can focus on one of those levels and given those barriers, what can citizens do? And I also would wanna add, which you're well aware of, we're all aware of the increasing degradation of the climate across the globe and how that may even more drastically change the situation that we're facing over the next few years in order to make these kinds of changes, they may even some of them become mood points. So I'm playing a little devil's advocate here, but yeah, I'd like you to go into that more. All right, a couple of thoughts to share around major challenges and opportunities for transforming the food system of Hawaii. So at the highest level, I would offer the idea that because we lack a state level food system plan or charter to guide the food system of Hawaii toward achieving a set of our own sustainable development goals, that's a major obstacle. It has resulted in a certain amount of fragmentation among food and agricultural and other stakeholder groups to build a common vision and a shared strategy to strive toward and move toward in terms of the future of food and agriculture in Hawaii. So a lack of a state planning process and a formal state plan, and that has led to a certain amount of fragmentation and lack of robust collaboration around a similar set of goals and objectives. I think as a faculty member within the University of Hawaii system, I believe that there's also a lack of a comprehensive research and education agenda within the system and in collaboration with our NGO partners to support the types of systemic change to reach the defined and measurable goals that we may hold for our society in terms of health, equity, resilience and sustainability. So I think the University of Hawaii has an important role to play to do the empirical work, research and then educate future generations around how do we engage in the process of food system transformation and what would that future food system look like? I think a couple of other things that are important obstacles is getting into some of the fine grained details is that we have a low minimum wage relative to what's considered to be a living wage here in Hawaii and that's contributing to a high adjusted poverty rate. And so we should expect if we have a poverty wage that we're paying people that they're going to experience high rates of food insecurity and housing insecurity here in Hawaii. So I think our low minimum wage standard is really a systemic challenge that needs to be addressed to solve for multiple issues simultaneously. And so I think those are a few, I think at a level where we're taking into consideration climate destabilization and how we're going to mitigate and adapt to those evolving conditions. I think another important obstacle is that we really have inadequate resourcing to plan, coordinate and execute emergency food and feeding programs effectively in the state. So I'm a part of a working group that is attempting to understand such things as what is the number of people across the state of Hawaii in different communities that have the recommended 14 days supply of food and water and what is our strategy in order to get food to people in the case of some kind of natural or human caused disaster. So I think there's some important changes to funding key state agencies to do some of this work is also a very important obstacle that needs to be overcome. And then at the broadest level, I think we really need to think about new governance structures for executing on some eventual food system planner charter for the state of Hawaii, rethinking what is an appropriate agency configuration and collaboration with the NGO world to help advance and achieve some of the sustainability goals that the state has set for itself. So in wrapping up now, I just want to push you a little bit more on concretely what can concern citizens here in Hawaii do whether it's faculty in the UH system in terms of research or lobbying the state legislature, what's the role of the ordinary citizen here in the face of these formidable challenges that we're all facing including the threat of climate catastrophe. Can we give our listeners and viewers a little hope here? What can they do? No, I think at a basic level, of course, where you place your dollars, vote with your dollars in terms of supporting local agriculturalists, supporting the local food system is really important. Tracking bills in front of the state legislature and weighing in on those that you think are aligned with your values in terms of developing the type of food in agricultural sector you want to see and then I think importantly, as we're able to stand up the idea of executing on a state level food system planner charter to get behind the idea because I think that that is an important unifying vision that we're all going to need to start pulling in the same direction behind in order to achieve some of the goals and objectives we may have for the future of food and agriculture in Hawaii. And then I guess lastly, I'm working with a team of colleagues in a civil beat to run some educational programming to help people understand what are the pressing issues in the food and agricultural sector that we need to tackle. So look forward to some public education events on the future of food and agriculture in Hawaii that will be rolling out soon. Okay, well, thank you so much. We're out of time and we have to wrap it up. Excuse me, I'm Michael Sukoff. This is the future of food towards transformation of the US food system think tech live streaming network series. We've been talking with Albi Miles who's an assistant professor at UH West Oahu. And again, we hope you'll join us again in two weeks for another episode of Thinking Thanks Through. Thank you all for being here. Thanks to our broadcast engineer and to Jay Fidel, our executive producer and all the other folks who puts this show together. Aloha. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.