 Welcome everybody, this is JSA TV, the newsroom for tech and telecom professionals, and JSA Radio, your voice for tech and telecom on IHOT Radio. I'm Jamie Skada-Kutaya, and on behalf of my team here at JSA, welcome to our monthly virtual CEO roundtable. These virtual roundtables lead us up to our on-site CEO roundtables at our C-level networking event, the Telecom Exchange. Next one up is June 20th in Hoboken, New Jersey at the W Hotel. More info at thetelecomchange.com. Today's roundtable is brought to you by our video collaboration managed services provider, Pinnacle. With our video platform, our panelists are able to stream and live video feeds clear across the world. So thank you, Pinnacle, and thank you to our viewers who are joining us live here and to those of us joining on demand. So let's get started. Today's topic is the new age of interconnectivity. Technological advances and for sure increasing network capacity demands are closing new and progressively difficult challenges for network interconnection. We have a wonderfully level lineup here today for you from four absolutely innovative companies who are addressing these interconnectivity challenges not just for today but also tomorrow. So helping us to break this down, I am honored to introduce our all-star panelists to you. Kicking it off, we have Mr. Bob DeSantis. He is the CEO of 365 Data Centers. 365 is a leading provider of target neutral hybrid data center and managed COLO solutions in strategic edge markets. Also joining us, Mr. Ben Edmond. He's the CEO and founder of Connected To Fiber providing a SaaS platform for network buyers and owners offering improved transparency, speed, and effectiveness. We also have Mr. David Erickson. He's the founder and CEO of FreeConferenceCall.com as well as the founder and CEO of CarrierX. You probably know Dave as the innovative entrepreneur who sparked a movement with free teleconferencing last decade or so. And now him and his team are reimagining the traditional Carrier model and technologies. And grounding on our panel today, we have Mr. Mike Francis. He's the chairman and CEO of JMF Solutions, Inc. JMF is the pioneer of technological innovative network systems to advance internet and voice services. And what I personally love, he donates a lot of these services to schools and charities. Gentlemen, thank you for joining us and I love how each of you really bring this unique perspective up and down the OSI staff to the topic of interconnectivity. So let's get going here. First question and we'll go right around the horn starting first with you, Bob. So if you could set the stage for us. Tell us a little bit about your 365 Data Centers business model and more so how your company might be innovating interconnectivity. Today, Bob? Sure. Well, Jamie, very happy to participate today. And just briefly with regard to our business and our business model, 365 Data Centers is a leading provider of hybrid data center solutions. We're in 10 geographic geographically diverse markets throughout the eastern United States. We operate Carrier Neutral Connectivity Rich data centers in Boca Raton, Florida, Buffalo, New York, Chicago, Detroit, Fort Lauderdale, Florida, Indianapolis, Nashville, Philadelphia, New York, and Tampa. So we're pretty much nationwide east coast, east coast based at least. And we have a combined 195,000 square feet and over 13 megawatts of power in place to serve our customers. With regard to connectivity, we maintain a redundant fiber network with 30 points of presence nationally, including direct connectivity to our data centers in the map of the Americas that Miami. We couple that with about 300 caring partners. So quite a connectivity rich focused business. Our target customers segments include carriers, content providers, cloud operators and small and intermediate size enterprise customers. Our carrier customers exceed 30 and have more than 130 POCs across our 10 data centers. So we're pretty engaged with the carrier and connectivity community. The company offers a broad product set, including co-location, metro elites in the long haul, MPLS network services, blended IP, chases, remote DR, cloud compute and storage, as well as some business continuity services. And we're proud to have 100% uptime record and in compliance with all the major industry standards. So that's a little bit background on what we're calling the new 365, which has been focused on these broader product sets and much more connectivity over the past year. And with your idea question as to how we approach connectivity best practices or innovation, we recognize that there are multiple types of transport and transit platforms and network elements in the current market, even more so than there were four or five years ago. So we use a combination of hardware platforms and a variety of network transport elements to provide transit and internet connectivity with the objective of rapid offloading to the destination points. So this approach provides in our view a better user experience by getting data and IP traffic to their destinations much quicker and with fewer intermediary networks involved. And by being a provider of Layer 2 services, we can also efficiently connect our customers with their production and backup environments within our various data centers. So it's kind of a twofold focus for us because obviously a lot of our revenue generated from the COLO customers. Having a connectivity rich data center environment as we have and an ecosystem of carriers and peering partners along with our own fiber provides us with a significant advantage and I think it provides anybody in the same position with a significant advantage in providing managed connectivity services. And then also to go a little further downstream by automating some basic tools such as adding IP for addresses prefixes on an automated basis. All of that are little things that ensures more efficient IP connectivity. So you know I think that's how we kind of approach connectivity at 365. Great thank you and I appreciate the opportunity to participate today in the in the video conference. My name is Ben Edmond. I'm the CEO and founder of Connect2Fiber. We are a SaaS platform purpose built for the connectivity industry. Our mission in life is to help the industry grow, transact, and interconnect. The platform is built around a premise that location matters and perspective matters. So we help connectivity providers whether they're up the stack providing voice service or down the stack providing raw infrastructure like dark fiber or co-location. You know understand the locations their assets with market perspectives both in terms of competitiveness and the demand side and then take action. We believe the the industry is going through some major fundamental changes that are you know absolutely exciting in terms of raw infrastructure from a buildout perspective next generation technologies and frankly a regulatory market that that is causing a lot of people to pay attention. All those things combined into you know our platform to help people grow and that's our mission in life and we do so with a lot of visual insight, automation, and intelligence. It's a great leap into date. Yeah I'm Dave Erickson. I'm the CEO of Carrier X which we're probably most notable for creating freeconferencecall.com which is at some points the largest retail brand of conferencing on the planet. We have about 800,000 companies in the United States that we work with. We've served about 1% of humanity with free conference call and completing calls between two people and and offering free communications. My specialty is voice. My specialty is disruptive voice. I see the future of you know the internet of things and voice and interconnectivity and all these things as being a white space for disruption. I think that there's a lot of big companies with big company ways that have been around for for big histories and and I think that things are are moving very fast. I think that things are changing very rapidly and I think you know the the agility is going to be found in and middle market kind of companies and smaller companies and emerging growth companies, things of that nature versus you know sort of the big huge iconic companies and and technologies have advanced dramatically and we look to stay on top of those. We do all our in-house technology. We build everything in-house all the way from our customer support to the core medium mixing of the voice is all connected and all put together. So we look forward to this time and we think we we are very excited about what's happening and the potentials and the possibilities and it's very exciting to be on this panel with people that share that that like kind of enthusiasm to go do something new. Absolutely right. Hi Jamie thank you so much for having me on. So I'm CEO of JMF Solutions. We are a very advanced technology company. We're focused on connecting clients to the data center, moving them out of the headquarters model. So Fiber is pretty big for us. Interconnecting with other carriers is huge. We have probably a little over 30 network to network interfaces with small and large carriers. Once we get the client connected into the data center there we have an array of virtualized services. So we're pretty heavily invested in software time networking, virtual routing, virtual switching, you know, and virtual services. We have three operating divisions and one intellectual property division. So we service enterprise and then market companies. Then we've taken all the products and services that they provide on an enterprise level and we've turned them also into wholesale services that we sell at a reduced price of course to other carriers, MSPs, ITSPs. And then we have an NTU business where we provide bulk services to, you know, large, you know, buildings, condos, developments. We weren't doing a good bit of fiber to the home but we pulled that back and are really focused on mid-market enterprise right now. I have a very advanced team. I like to think of us as a bunch of nerds who became entrepreneurs, who became businessmen. So it's a lot of fun. I mean we're having a really good time. We're staying ahead of the curve, you know, we're small enough where our clients really matter to us. You know, a hundred million dollar company that if there are bread and butter, whereas to say, you know, a Winstream or Century Link or an AT&T, they're just another number. They really don't get the type of service or support. So we see ourselves as the real advocate for the client where there are bread and butter. They get an advanced person on the phone, you know, almost immediately. We're helping them design, deploy, and manage these very advanced networks. We're educating our clients and we're helping them integrate all these different technologies and all these different buzzwords, you know, and they really understand what they are. So I really appreciate you having me on and I'm looking forward to answering this. Well, we do appreciate all of you gentlemen being here and offering your expertise, looking back over the past 12 to 24 months or so. Could you tell us what is the one technological advancement that has been transformational for you? And if applicable, how does the rollout or deployment of this technology like? Any lessons learned, you can share with us and say more at our local conference with Bob. You know, it's an interesting question, Jamie, and you know, from my perspective, you know, advancement in technologies, you know, really hasn't, it really hasn't been that many changes beyond what I refer to as capacities. And, you know, obviously that's huge. So, you know, the speeds and feeds have certainly grown from what had been, you know, a high of, you know, one gigabit delivery to, you know, now, you know, what is, you know, service level provider levels of 10 gig, 40 gig and even 100 gig. And so when I refer to speeds, I'm referring to the capacity that can be handled by a port on a network gear and feeds referring to the network to build ability to transport these same capacities, you know, otherwise these port configurations are under utilized. So that's really, that's really, you know, what I've seen is the major swing in the last several years, obviously. And, you know, selecting equipment vendors that can keep up with the capacity growth without the need to do a complete hardware changeover and much, you know, much more excessive cost, you know, has been the real challenge, at least from our perspective. And so, you know, most, you know, most current generation platforms do not provide much scale without a drastic hardware cost increase. However, a number of next generation platforms that are now in the market have done quite well, you know, with the advent of, you know, stacking technologies and multi-chassis solutions so that capacity upgrades can be made on a much more cost efficient basis, you know, predominantly with card change outs. And so, you know, from our perspective, I guess, as we think about the last 12 to 24 months and going forward, it's just being a prudent manager of these speeds and feeds, you know, and by adhering to that type of strategy, you know, it allows us to continue in our view to be, you know, a superior connectivity provider. But it's been, you know, advancement along those capacities and managing those speeds and feeds that, you know, have been, you know, our biggest challenge. And, you know, we feel we've been successful with it, but, you know, the challenge changes every day almost in that respect. Great. So, from my perspective, there's really two fundamental technological leaps for the industries made over the last two years. And we're still in the early endings of it, but it's the adoption of software declines, you know, networks, and the movement to the cloud. It's really changed the perspective. And the perspective I'm talking about is the fragmentation that exists in the last mile to lead up to the need to interconnect networks. The reality is we tracked over 2,319 physical networks that still connect into all the enterprise locations across the country. And with software-defined networking, there's a deep coupling of the network from the last mile that's enabled like it's never been enabled before. And that shift is really helping people think about how to best solve for the need for those speeds and feeds to increase, to accommodate the reality that the application is no longer sitting inside the four walls with the user. It's now moved into the, into the cloud or into the data center, as Bob suggested, and as business operates. And those two fundamental changes are really taking a foothold in the market over the last two years. And, you know, from our perspective, really helps shine a light on the need to understand all the moving parts and participate fully. Do you see that as well? Yeah, I think that, you know, the ability to do all of this interconnecting and things has become much more rich environment over the last couple of couple of years. We're very interested in app-to-app voice, things of that nature, you know, in a voice industry, which I've been in for a couple of decades, you know, interconnecting, cross-connecting, peering, you know, all of the different terms. There's a number of things that have come in that have kind of stifled what should actually happen because of, you know, competition and people competing with each other and whatnot. And we see things getting more complex. You know, our vision is not that, you know, a handful of carriers exchange traffic for us all. Our vision is that it goes from app-to-app and that, you know, you look at a company like Twilio, I think they've got like 500,000 app developers, right? There's going to be millions of apps. And we're going to have millions of apps talking to millions of apps. And I think the things that are exciting to us is just the scalability we've seen in transcoding because I think these apps are going to want to work in their own technologies and keep their technologies unique and, you know, to themselves. You know, some of them have developed a different compression, decompression algorithms that they want to work on. I think that, you know, direct connecting those and asking competitors to do things is going to be difficult. It always has been. And we see that the potentials for aggregating intermediaries and doing scalable, you know, transcoding and settlements and all those kinds of things has really increased in the last two years. And we've been working hard at our company HD tandem to kind of be a rock in the middle of the river, if you will. I mean, the ultimate goal is that everybody's direct connected. But when you look at the number of people that are direct connected today in comparison to the number of people that are just coming on to want to do something, you know, we're kind of looking at a losing game. And we think that some intermediaries will be very helpful working between competitors that can't work with each other, you know, doing transcoding, doing things that intermediaries can do in a fiduciary basis that that's very beneficial to these people. And I think, you know, we do about three to five percent of the traffic in the United States right now through HD tandem. We look to do a lot more of that. We look to really increase not with the old carriers, but with the new application providers, providers with their new technologies and to be able to work with their technologies and scale that. And I think that's what's happened for the last two years. Amazing. And Mike, do you see this as well? Yeah, to me, there's so many disruptive technologies and there's so many things that that are happening, you know, in these industries, you know, the adoption of IPv6, how important BGP is, virtual routing, virtual switching, software defined network, cloud, SD land, you know, all these things. So what's really important is how you tie all that together, you know, education, information, integration. So with bringing it all together, standardizing on how it all works, standardizing on how everyone connects with each other, how they talk to each other. I've seen some extremely innovative software defined networks out there. I mean, we've been deploying one ourselves, but we're connected to several others. And they're really cool, some of the stuff that they're doing and how easy they make it for, you know, another carrier to cross-connect to another carrier by clicking a button, you know. But no, all these APIs and all these integrations, they're not standardized, right? So every time you want to do something with somebody else, you're having to have a whole development team work on something to integrate another solution into what you're doing. So standardization, educating the clients, your employees, even your vendors in a lot of cases. There's a ton of misinformation out there. I'm a network and systems engineer, background programmer, you know. So to me, the, a lot of the stuff out there is just sales and marketing garbage, you know, and clients hear it and they want to buy this stuff and then they think it's all magic. They're like, okay, well, you just plug it all in, it all works, right? You know, and we're talking about billion-dollar banks that think this, you know. So, and that's not what it's like. So you have to be the advocate for the client. You have to educate them and you have to be a part of their team and help integrate these technologies properly. You see, to me, that I'd say 90% of the companies out there that are selling this stuff really have no idea what they're doing. There's a good 10%. They really get it. You know, they're fun to work with. They understand technology. They've got advanced teams. You know, all the other 90% should probably be doing sales for the other 10%. So I couldn't agree with you more or less. But it was directly into our next question. What do you see as the top challenges today, based on network and connectivity, particularly as everything is moving to the cloud? We heard drop the ability and we heard misinformation out there. Not a lot of education. Bob, and again, we'll right around the corner. We'll start with you, Bob. What do you see as those potential roadblocks here? What are those challenges that we're facing today? Okay. Well, I'm going to try to answer this question. It's one of the 10% that should be in the business of selling cloud in network. I do agree with his premise. Well, let's just start with the basics. Cloud from a customer's perspective is really just using someone else's hardware and software. And so the challenge that anyone like 365 or any service provider in the cloud market has, whether you're way up the stack or kind of just in the cloud computing storage businesses, is to make that customer feel that that server and software are still on the customer's premise. That's the home run, if you can deliver it in that manner. That can be accomplished only by providing scalable storage, compute, and access capabilities at each of your connectivity points. So the customer and the cloud resource are as physically close and as seamless as possible. And I guess it's really that seamless as possible, which really brings us back to the topic connectivity. And from our view, it's very difficult to deliver this service at a very high level across multiple sites. If you're just going to get wed to a single approach, whether in terms of hardware providers or network vendors or elements, because your equipment and transport network need to be configured to meet the specific market customer's requirements. So as I mentioned earlier, the port capacities, the network capacity, and availability all need to be managed within each market to live the best customer experience for your cloud customers. And that's what takes the effort. And knowledge and capability both in terms of the network and the cloud platform is key. Because if you're just operating a cloud platform and depending on somebody else to operate your network, you're not going to connect those two elements together to make you successful. So in most cases, a mixed vendor solution can be much better. But this cost, you need to broaden that knowledge within your sales engineers, your network engineers, your system engineers. And so there's a balance. And if you're not focused on supporting your business that way, then I agree on the other 90%. And that's out of my view on what's facing cloud providers is a challenge. It definitely is. Ben? I would tend to agree a lot with what Bob said. From my perspective, adaptability and the understanding of really how to manage that multi-service provider environment that is going to continue to exist and expand. And to David's earlier point, I think the complexity just increases dramatically. Both what we're seeing today and over the next three to five years and understanding what the optimal last moment solution is, what the ability to interconnect, whether it's app-to-app or hybrid environment, that complexity is going to grow. And ultimately, the users want seamless. They want an end user experience as if the application was sitting on their desktop. And it's going to be a struggle for the industry as a whole and to deliver on that. But through the proper interconnections, through the right standards and communication and collaboration, ultimately that's the way we're going. And we're going to have to solve for the cloud providers themselves. I believe are the ones that are going to be faced with the most pressure, which in turn will be put back on the data centers and the network providers to deliver. Because that end user experience ultimately drives the revenue stream for the whole industry. So what we see is kind of a barrier or things that are considered problems. One would be just the current state of regulation today in voice. And there's an NPRM out on intercarrier compensation right now. We're making comments and we hope to see something wonderful happen there. Our telephone system, our voice system hasn't changed for a hundred years. Innovation has actually been stifled on our network due to the regulation and due to the competition that we tried to regulate in where two competitors don't really want to work with each other but kind of want to do the other one under. And I think that we need to fix that. I think we need to find some areas where we can all agree to create something that unbuckles innovation from the actual regulation, allows people to advance their codecs, advance their video codecs, advance the information content delivery networks and all those things and not somehow be tied to a regulation that holds some old technology in place that doesn't allow that to happen. Another area where I see issue is that historically the voice network has been built with a lot of the intelligence at the edge and sort of that edge provider is your provider. And I think that as we go into the future we're going to want to see that kind of stuff more at the core decided by the edge that the consumer can say, hey, I want to forward my phone to my Skype app. I want to forward my phone to this app, that app, to this home, to that plane, to whatever case it may be. And that's only going to be in centralized intelligence versus the edge intelligence that exists today in kind of the legacy network. So those are kind of the roadblocks we see, but we think that technology to bypass all of that is already here. There isn't any technological advances that need to be made to complete the Shangri-La, if you will, of voice and applications and interconnectivity. I think what it is is it's some careful regulation and things that we don't get things that actually block out the ability for a new upcoming company to say, hey, I want to be a part of this voice exchange. I want to be in the refrigerators and everywhere where voice is, just like everybody else. And I want to pay my way in and get in and be accepted. And I think that right now in our current regulatory status that's very difficult. I think we need to change it. My name is regulatory issues on top of your mind when you think of roadblocks for Shangri-La. Yeah. And we've got a really smart panel here. To me, it's about keeping up connectivity. So today it's 100 gig everything. So you've got 5th generation, 5G wireless coming, cloud, everything cloud, I mean cloud cloud cloud. And not only do you need the connectivity into the cloud, you need the connectivity between other clouds so you can replicate services and do all these things. So I mean connectivity is just, it's multiplying on a crazy scale. So it still blows me away when a carrier we're connected with has a problem doing 10 gig service for us. I mean these, we learn these things the hard way. So this makes me think about like our network started out at this little 100 meg network. Man, we thought that was like everything we needed, right? And then we spent all this money to upgrade to one gig, one gig network. Well, what we should have really done is gone from 100 megabit to 10 gigabit. And from 10 gig instead of 40 we should go to 100. So we shouldn't be looking at the next thing, we should be looking at the next, next thing. Because this stuff's expensive, it takes time to deploy, it takes time to understand, and we're outgrowing our own networks every day. Then the platforms, so say you've got 100 gig switching and routing, well, next you've got to have all the servers to support it. So I know plenty of carriers, including us in some instances, you know, we have 100 gig backbone connectivity yet we're still running clusters of servers with VMware and our cloud on top of that, and they're all 10 gig connectivity. So if you're doing virtual routing and switching, well, you need 100 gig servers too. So it's keeping up with this technology, which is so important. And some are doing a good job at it, some are not. And unless you keep up with it, the more expensive and time-consuming and painful it's going to be. Very true. All right, so this is the time now, gentlemen, where I'm going to ask you to take off the crystal ball, the magic crystal ball, peer into future. So looking forward to clearly I mentioned, and Mike said, there's just this endless demand for capacity. And with IoT, AI, that's taking off, we've really just begun to experience the amount of data, capacity demands from IoT and AI. Where do you see the industry heading in the next year or two? And how does innovative interconnectivity play an important role in this process? Bob? Well, Jamie, I'm going to take a liberty to say I'm sure I speak for everyone. We could spend an hour on this topic each. But I'm going to focus on just speaking to the direction of the services 365 currently provides. My partners and I spent an awful lot of time on this over the last year or prior to acquiring the 365 platform within this past year and then adding immediately a lot of network capacity and capability to it. Because in our view, in order to drive the utmost efficiency in things like the internet of things and artificial intelligence and all the other consumer on demand information that is just growing exponentially. When it comes to hybrid data center services, whether it's including co-location, remote disaster recovery, cloud, storage, compute, you name it, just managing various network elements, everything in our view is moving towards the edge. And that was very, very much our focus. Eight of our 10 data centers are on the edge. We have two that are in major, major cities that need to be there because of connectivity points. But this move towards the edge is not only driven by the content providers and owners who are just commercially motivated to deliver low latency information and video to consumers, but also by the cloud customers who, as we mentioned earlier, want services delivered in a manner as if it feels like the underlying equipment and software is right on their premises. And so, again, that's the view I have that things are moving much to the edge, very, very much quicker than even a lot of the news you hear about. And as to a two-year view on connectivity, I don't know as far as Mike, but I will agree with him that I would suspect all network transfer capacities below a gig, even up to a gig, will be substantially obsolete in the next two years. We'll be talking about it DSL and T1s, for those of us who go back that far. And we'll be headed towards cost-efficient. It's not really there yet, but cost-efficient 10 gig minimums, I'm not going to say to the home, but certainly in business environments across the board. And that's where I think we're headed in terms of connectivity. And it might be much quicker than I'm even projecting. Amazing. Ben, what's your projection? My projection is a simple four-letter board of more. More bandwidth, more complexity, more choice, more locations, more mobility, more cloud applications, more service providers. I mean, at the end of the day, the general trend that we see is the world wants what the industry is delivering. The consumption of services rather than legacy hardware infrastructure locations, the consumption of faster, better, cheaper to drive productivity, entertainment, and others. All that is happening and converging in a lot of different challenging ways for the industry. And I think that just increases the amount of capital needed to keep up with the pace of demand is increasing. And the penetration of the raw infrastructure into where the users are back to the peering points. I agree with the general trend to the edge. And that's just a need to keep up with the simple need of more to keep pace with where we're going. Dave, M-O-R-E, do you agree? Yeah, I definitely think we get more. I hope it's more good and not more of what we've had. I think that what we'll see in the next two years is that we'll see high definition voice be exchanged through a public global exchange much would be exciting. I think we'll also see the focus on carriers at the edge change to applications at the edge and more of the carrier focus stuff will be either direct connected or an aggregated intermediary that serves the edge better. I think with HD voice and apps, it's going to be millions and millions of apps that find a common way to all connect. And I think it'll be done through some intermediary functions, but I think it will inspire and make direct connectivity happen at a much better pace than it's happening now. Dave, Mike, are pushing to the edge. How do you feel? I think that's very important. Man, there's a lot on this topic. To me, I have this vision of no one really caring what the speed is anymore. All these carriers are out there selling one gig to the home and all this stuff. Well, at some point, does it even matter? I mean, let's just provide the capacity it's necessary and connect the clients to everything. Because that's what they want. They just want to be connected to everything. They want it to work. Do they really care what the speed is? I mean, some dudes sit around do speed tests all day long and put in support tickets when it's not what they think it should be. But that's not your typical client. They just want to run their business. So you connect them. You get them to the data centers as fast as possible. You get them out of the headquarters model. So the things that I feel are going to revolutionize that are BGP and IPv6 because that's something you can take all the way down to the client level. I really have this vision of BGP and IPv6 being utilized all the way down to the business level where right now it's mostly, it is how the internet works. Most people have no idea what it is. But when you bring it all the way down to the business level and everything or the majority of what you're doing is functioning on IPv6, then, and it's easy to support BGP or some other technology, you know, something needs to probably come out to replace that. But when you can, each individual business or entity can have its own IP space and there's plenty of it now, and then announce that to whatever carriers that they want to be their service providers, whether it's Comcast or MediaCon or AT&T or JMF Wavefly or anybody or 365 data centers, it doesn't really matter. They have their IP space, it's theirs and they can announce it to everybody and all of a sudden this global network opens up. I think the other things that are going to revolutionize this are quantum computing, quantum networking, blockchain, man the stuff going on with blockchain is crazy. It's kind of like the Wild Wild West and the dot-com boom right now, but what came out of that is what we have now. So, you know, the whole next revolution in technology with quantum computing and blockchain, which I think those two things are going to go very well together, it's really going to revolutionize the way everything we're doing now works. The biggest roadblocks I see are government agencies trying to figure out how to regulate everything that we're doing. Old school companies trying to keep their hands in the pot when they don't need to be there anymore. Those are the biggest roadblocks and we've got to figure out how to collectively get past that. That's it. Gentlemen, thank you for your expertise. We covered everything from IPv6 to getting to the edge to more of everything. I loved it, so much more to talk about. We're going to have a full roundabout just because I got me very excited about that. So, thank you for your expertise today on the new age of interconnectivity. Again, our all-star panelist here, Bob DeSantis, 265 data centers, Ben Edmund, connected to Fiber, David Erickson, pre-conference call dot-com as well as Karina X and others, and Mike Francis of J&F Solutions Incorporated. This wraps up our latest virtual CEO roundtable. Thank you again for joining us. We hope to see you gentle and everyone watching live at Telecom Exchange June 20th in Hoboken, New Jersey. For thoughts, questions, or to feature your C-level here next time, go ahead and email us at prjsa.net. Thanks for tuning in to JSA TV, the newsroom for tech and telecom professionals and JSA radio. Your voice for tech and telecom, I hot radio. Until next time, happy networking.