 allowing yourself to be convinced by Jesus of the value of peace and of nothing in the world can get it to you and nothing in the world can take it away from you. And it's totally an interesting matter. And I will tell, I share this one parable from a friend of mine, too, around September 11th because it's a very striking parable. For so many days that I was eight or ten days after the World Trade Center came down, my friend who's a very devoted Course in Miracles teacher, he's over in Spain right now, his name is Axel, and he and a group of Course in Miracles teachers and students went into Ground Zero, not too long after it happened, and they got closer and closer and closer, and he was in such a miraculous state of mind that he was just waltzing in there, Ground Zero, in his miraculous state of mind, and there was a Japanese man with a plaid squirt around, came in front of him, and the Japanese man hit his head in the elbow, just shaking his head, you know, it was so bad, so terrible, he was seemingly in a state of shock and grief, and my friend Axel walked up close to him and was watching the scene, and then he had this little flicker of thought go through his mind, what is my joy could be an affront to this man's grief and suffering. That was the flicker of the thought. As soon as he took seriously that flicker of the thought, he felt the heat all over his skin. He felt the dust go up his nostrils. He felt the dryness in his throat. He felt the stench and the smell of flesh and everything, and instantly when he just took that one little thought seriously, wondering if my joy could be an affront to this man's grief. This is what Jesus is talking about, a false empathy. When he says, the line with me and stay with me, he means a line with me and stay with me completely. So as soon as that flicker of the thought came in, Axel dipped down to the wrong line, and the effects of that wrong line in us were dramatic in that state, because it was not that long after the towers had come down. So I remember asking Axel, so what did you do? He said, I just helped. Back up to Christ, like, help, please help me see this differently. I can see pieces of this in us like a call. But in a very sincere way, and you know what? He did get lifted right back up into the right line. He's very strong with his micron. He was lifted back up, he was back into this miraculous state where you could feel the heat or the dust or anything else. And he looked and there was the Japanese man. And the Japanese man turned and looked at him and almost kind of in a cadence or a wrapped way said to Axel, I can see by the way that you feel that you know that none of this is real. And that's what we mean by your mind training. If you join with the Spirit, the witnesses will reflect that joining. You will call forth witnesses in this world of divine love, of the Spirit speaking. You know, as you align your mind with purpose, then you call forth witnesses. Jesus even describes it in great detail in the Course about how you're always sending out messengers, to bring forth witnesses back. And that was quite a dramatic one because of the right-mindedness and the dip into the wrong-mindedness, what he perceived, and then back into the right-mindedness and the witness became. So, you know, you could see the potential there. You could literally be seeing somebody who was angry or like my friend in Argentina who was angry at the breakfast table and then the Holy Spirit would whoosh through, you know, in that state and then she'd burst into laughter. She just couldn't hold it in anymore. It just suddenly flipped like that. But those are kind of more dramatic experiences. For most people it's much more gradual. It just takes a lot of mind training and practice before you get those turnouts. Yeah, you teach what you would learn. You teach forgiveness, you learn forgiveness. In this world, teaching and learning seem to be separate activities. And we generally assign the teacher role to the one that seems to know more and they learn a role or the student role to the one that needs to learn. But actually, you might say that the mind is in a state of conversion and so you're really teaching and you're learning. And it's just two ways of describing the same thing that's occurring. You basically are teaching and learning one thought system for the other. You do the Holy Spirit thought system for the egos. Every single moment you're teaching and learning at one thought system or another. So really, this whole journey is a process of becoming a consistent teacher and a consistent monk. And the only way you can do that is learning and teaching the forgiveness because that's the only lesson that can be learned. The egos are an impossible lesson. So you can try to learn it. But try as you may, you will never be able to learn it because it's an impossible lesson. It doesn't mean the mind doesn't attempt to try until it sees the alternative and lets it go. So I think that one way of thinking and teaching in a higher sense is in terms of thought. That basically you're teaching with your thoughts and you're learning with your thoughts. And then there comes a point when that teaching and learning becomes so consistent teach only love for that is what you are, is what Jesus is saying. You know, use that as your goal. And that stabilizes the mind when it becomes consistent in those thoughts. I heard a lot of people talk about that change in 2012 and I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on that. Maybe it's you, things happening, whether people are thinking like that you'll create that or? Yeah, I think, I mean, some take back to talking about the mind calendar and given the end of the world around that time and others take a little more moderate and mild approach and say well there's going to be some significant shift in consciousness and everything in this world is symbols. So, you know, in terms of where human consciousness seems to be there will be those time periods and leaving periods where there will seem to be more significant changes where people will seem to notice a bit of a difference and that this could very well be what will be coming in the coming few years. But you have to understand that the more you train your mind the more you start to see the sameness of everything. So, you know, somebody who has a highly trained mind would be imperceptible, you know, because there's this sense that things are healed now. It's like it's not a time thing. It's not looking at the collective so to speak or believing in the collective and kind of feeling out where global consciousness is or whatever. Those are all symbols, stepping stones just like when they talked about like the hundreds monkey effect kind of like when something all of a sudden starts to appear a phenomenon in different parts of the world even though there hasn't been any kind of physical transportation of ideas it seems like the ideas start to pop up in different parts of the country like when there's a readiness for that. So, I think with things like that I think a lot of people get there they're so much looking for a hope of shifts and change and they're thinking they'll be sometimes some kind of major event and so on and so forth but really the kind of stabilised perception we're talking about is not really tied into time or events it's more tied into your mind training.