 The Minister for Information, Of Information and Cultural Life Mohammed has once again called for the regulation of social media. He said it would be in the best interest of the citizenry of the country to monitor the platform's content. The ministers who spoke against the backdrop of the controversy surrounding the ban of the use of Twitter in the country encouraged lawmakers to grant full regulatory powers to the government over internet broadcasting and all online media outfits. Well joining us to discuss this is Adura Tomi Bholadi. He is a media consultant and Abiod. Okay, well we also have joining us MC Ave. He is an actor and a comedian and we have former DJ of the NBC Emeka Mba. Thank you very much for joining us gentlemen. Thank you for having me. Thank you. All right. So I'm going to start with the need for regulation because this is the emphasis that many have debated on plus the negatives of social media. We all know it's that we see all kinds of things happening on social media, bullying, propaganda, fake news. It's a lot of things going on but then the government is saying that they need to regulate it. There's a need and they're saying it's in the best interest of the citizenry. So I'm going to start with you Tomi because you have been a boss in a media house and you have had your fair share with the NBC and of course regulating contents that media house houses put out. But when you first heard about the ban on Twitter I saw that you had a lot to say. How did this make you feel about press freedom and of course freedom of expression as it is in the Nigerian space? Oh I think that when the when the ban was announced I called it what it is which is media. As a citizen you are guaranteed the right to communicate as freely as you want. I would say responsibly that is. So when the government tries to take that away from you it's an overreach. I think what the government has done in banning Twitter particularly is going over its remit. The government might have some concerns about how Twitter is being used. The government can even have some concern about the owners of Twitter but to ban Twitter outrightly to prevent Nigeria from taking away that right from them to be able to communicate whatever platform they wish is beyond as that I think the government should be exercising. As a democratic nation and it's important to emphasise that as a democratic nation the last thing you want to do is to kill off conversation to kill off the opportunity for citizens to be able to communicate with one another to be able to dialogue to be able to communicate with government to be able to express how they feel about what is happening in their country. Whether government likes it or not whether it is right or wrong you cannot take away that right from people in a democracy. And I think that's what the government is doing right now with the ban on Twitter with pushing for this regulation of social media. Government is trying to close civic space and prevent the likelihood of people to communicate as they wish. Now I agree with people who say that yes there are some excesses on social media people who push hate messages people who bully others people who push falsehood but we already have laws that deal with these things. We have laws that can take care of these things to ban an entire platform because you have reservations about how some people are using it. And I might say with minority of people if we're going to talk about Twitter as a whole Twitter has done a lot of good. There are people who have crowd-funded medical support on Twitter. People have been found on Twitter. People have got jobs. People have businesses on Twitter. So there's a lot of good that social media is doing that this government is killing with fiat because the government doesn't like certain elements of social media or Twitter and I think that is just crazy. It's synonymous with killing a mosquito with a bazooka and it shouldn't be allowed to happen. It shouldn't even happen at all in a democracy. Government is always excited to say oh this is what China has done and this is what China is doing but China is not a democratic nation. All of the countries that are known to suppress media and particularly social media around the world and not democracy except we're trying to say that Nigeria is moving away from a democratic system of government this is not something that our government should be pushing should be passionate about. In the last couple of weeks this is the only thing that the government has been talking about and that is sad if you ask me. Okay I'll come back to you to tell me because I want to push you further on this issue but let me go to Mr Ambar. The minister has talked about the fact that content has to be controlled and regulated and I know that when it's not online I mean I'm talking about radio and TV stations it's already controlled it's already regulated and unfortunately the NBC seems to be dancing to the music of the federal government so if the government sneezes the NBC catches cold and of course that reverberates through the radio and TV stations but when the minister is talking about the interest of the citizenry what interest do you think he speaks of because I'm wondering if businesses are suffering as a result of the fact that there's been a ban and tech companies who had allocated certain projects are beginning to pull out which is hurting those tech businesses and don't forget that Lagos is one of the biggest tech hubs in West Africa. What interest do you think the federal government is referring to? I think it appears to me at least looking away from my perspective that the honourable minister is conflicting the interest of government of this regime and with what they consider to be a public interest that is what it appears to me like on the surface because there's not even been any deep conversation I'm not even going to call a study to say this is what this is our findings around social media with regards to how we should regulate it when I saw the thing put forward by my former place of work calling for people to be licensed there's no framework they've not even done a framework they've not done a needs assessment of how you regulate social media um I mean look once I described Twitter as it's like you know like you know be Apollo is where people go to have conversations there's there's no senior there's no junior everybody can have that can talk and do whatever they want to do in the space like that yes as Tommy said there are always people who misuse any platform people misuse the fresh print in press people misuse the first broadcast and things like that will happen but I think that it's almost as if the feelings of government were hurt and and then they were very acted in terms of what how what they thought they could do to control them to bring everybody on the control and it's not going to work it's it's it's unlikely to work and it's not in the best interest again using the word interest of Nigeria and of Nigerian citizens because as you said people are suffering businesses have shattered you know people it's it's slowly more and more aggressively even shrinking that space that people need to have conversations around and this is even a government that came to power on on on social media largely it's because again typical of most governments whether it be PDP or APC you know I was I was the former DJ of the book and I was also on the pressure you know to not to allow the dental position have space so this is typically what governments do and that's why I think that the conversation around the independence of our regulatory agencies most we must pursue it and not have them readily under the thumbprint of a minister who is a political person and I think that's the conversation and I'm happy that the National Assembly at least yesterday was a public hearing on on the MBC bill as well as other agencies and then the the large segment of the people who participated said look we need we need more independence for for the MBC but in terms of how they license and so on. I'm sorry to talk over you let me just quickly look at something that the minister pointed to I'm hoping that you can help us get clarity he he talked about the fact that the country's laws must not be subservient to international telecoms union treaties in view of the need to protect certain peculiar situations in the country and the NBA that's the bar association has sued the federal government on this particular issue in fact they said that it is unconstitutional and I'm asking you now as a former DG if a government is asking for full regulatory powers over internet broadcasting and all online media houses or outfits what does that mean in essence again does that affect press freedom tell me has said that yes it's you know it's affecting us they don't want us to say the things that we say on a normal day but you are also saying it's shrinking that space but if a government is outrightly asking for powers over a thing that they were allowed to use before they got into office are we still in a democracy I mean look um we are still in a democracy and that's why we're having this conversations we you know and that's why there's been this very hefty pushback against this this ban on Twitter and this attempt to further restrict the the social space we are in a democracy democracy is something you have to constantly work for it's not something you you get offered on a plateau you know you we just have to you know all of us whether as journalists whether as people in the public spaces we all keep just must keep working for it I believe that there is a need for regulation but but not not the way that we're going around it and for example again let me refer back to that thing that was published by the by the NBC a couple of the last week in fact saying you must people WhatsApp Facebook and also show media all online there's no definition as I said there's no framework they've not even defined what what kind of OTT they want to regulate is it and because there are different forms of OTT there's you know there's there's there's a content side there's information side and then there's there's a there's a communication side of OTT there's even banking for example your banking app you know if you use PayPal for example it's it's OTT if you have Netflix it's it's some form of OTT your WhatsApp your Facebook and so so many things I mean that's what we live in today so how do you begin to do that and how do you bring all of that into the existing laws of the NBC even defining what broadcasting is would you say that Twitter is a broadcaster would you say that Facebook is a broad all of Facebook is a is a broadcast business it might be a media business but it's certainly not a broadcast business per se so there needs to be more a lot more clarity about it and it needs to be conversation law the relevant stakeholders I think perhaps the first thing that should have been done will have been to maybe push for some kind of you know greater consultation within the industry have different people have a proper public hearing and let's have conversations with all the experts all the people stakeholders concern and let's begin to from that conversation look at how best we can go around this but I I think ultimately the way they're going around it going about it will not work and I think we would do more harm to us as a as a country but economically and and even with for our democracy ourselves it's it's going to hurt our democracy but I think that the pushback is commendable and I think that that's that's the best thing we can do at this point let me come to MC Abbey MC Abbey you are a comedian you're an actor you use social media very very often I see that and just like I asked tell me what was your reaction to the Twitter ban a couple of people you know still are on the side of the you know the presidency they're saying that oh well you know we've misused our freedom on social media and we're pushing you know the federal government to the wall and so it's okay to ban you know Twitter or suspended but I'm asking you as a creative as someone who uses that space more often how has this hurt you if it has in any way let us know all right greetings to everyone greetings to um Somba I can see thank you so much and your words are very very very very exact it hits the nail at the head and thanks so much so tell me yes it's affected everyone of us um as Nigerians uh personally affected me and hearing the news I I felt that we had a government that is um ill informed and um based on lack of information global information being a react instead of act um a government that don't seem to um come to cost before they throw in their weight on stuff and look at what uncle uncle Umbago said um there are different kinds of OTTs um not all broadcasting platforms are they are all media platforms all media broadcasting platforms they are different specificities for all these things but when you come out and you just make a a big statement a a wide rate statement uh that covers everything it goes to show that you also you are limited in your information that's Somba 1 and number two one got me really sad the fact that you you made a debate pronunciation which found a law back in it there is no legal ground for whatever that was said for whatever injunction that was given it's just that your it's just a reaction of sentiment but the president has always the president has been quoted to say in fact we have those videos I'm sure lots of people would go on social media and post it right now the president has said that national interest supersedes the rule of law so whether it's constitutional or not again he did it in the interest of the nation that twitter ban um was not necessarily constitutional but the president has said that the rule of law can take a back seat when the issues of national interest come up what is national interest that um uh uh a media a social media platform that has their own rules and regulations before you join that you violated oh i'm so sorry MC abbey i'm going to go to tummy tummy um let's talk about the um the fact that um the pdp governors were accused by the presidency uh to be using twitter to spread fake news now this is one of the newest reasons that the presidency has given us for shutting down twitter what are your thoughts on this because you have said that you know this is this is the government getting you know more like an ego an ego trip but the the president has come out to say the opposition is using social media for propaganda they're using it to spread fake news hence the reason why they're shutting it down but then we have whatsapp we have instagram we have facebook why is it just twitter i think the government is just clutching at straws um the the pdp governors um forum um they are right to oppose this because it's a um wronged is a wrong directive is a wronged action that shouldn't have been taken to start with um so we must commend them for standing um firm against this um but to say that um the pdp i one of the reasons why twitter was was banned because the pdp has been using it for to spread fake news is is also one of those lame excuses that really doesn't travel far again if there is any aspect of Nigerian law that has been brewed by anybody representing any organization um be the political party or otherwise government should do what is the responsibility to do which is to apply the laws of the land let's thrash it out in court let's people be prosecuted let them be found guilty or be clared so that way to serve as an example to other people but where government just throws around this is almost like the government government is saying that because we are helpless we are going to take these drastic action the government is not helpless in the case of twitter government government went overboard by banning twitter and we should just say the way it is government went overboard if government has any browse whatsoever with certain individuals or or the platform itself government should use the legal means to resolve it and not do an outright ban so this um i think was garbar she would have spoken beyond the presidency this pushback this excuse that the pdp governor's forum or pdp at the party um was using twitter um to spread fake news is just this lame doesn't travel far as far as i'm concerned and i think that the government should stop saying things that really put them that and make them look quite unintelligent in my opinion they should stop saying that and just do what is what is right and appropriate we are a democracy and if you want to continue to bring draconian um policies um to a democracy expect that people are going to resist people are going to resist and it's in our nature we've we've pushed back against ministry government and these are people who are not who are not um democrats we push back against them so if someone or a government um that is supposed to be a a democratically elected government is acting um otherwise expect that people are going to resist and people are going to insist that the right thing be done for the sake of the country all right quickly in one sentence miss dembar i want to ask you this i did ask my guests on the on the first segment we know the body language of this government especially mr president if he takes a stand that's where he stands he doesn't really move grounds do you see this ban being lifted anytime soon again don't forget that the government has said that these uh companies these social media platforms need to start um you know registering their businesses in Nigeria do you see that happening or are we going to be in some form of a deadlock anytime maybe sometime in the future or is the government going to maybe shift to ground sometime soon oh yeah and so i'm so sorry mc abe actor comedian meccan by former dg of the nvc and adria tomi balade a media consult and thank you very much gentlemen for being part of the conversation even though the internet did not let us have the best of conversations but i thank you all for being part of this all right we'll take a short break when we come back we will be uh talking about my take stay with us so here's my take the presidency audaciously insisting that loretta onochi is made ionic commissioner li mohamed our minister for information arrogantly continuing the narrative that the government has the right to sense of freedom of speech and expression by banning social media why are we now all up in arms this is the Nigeria you and i have system systematically built over decades today we started making it okay to buy our way through life through the values passed down to us out of the window make excuses for doing the wrong thing tell white lies that morphed into bigger lies that became common practice the day morals stopped meaning anything the bri the brown envelope the first door business class tickets the birking bag the philly paper tech watch rolls Royce and exorbitant lifestyle we didn't honestly work for everything comes at a price you know that and now we're paying the piper and complaining why isn't this what we wanted i mean now that we have seen how bad things can get we can actually decide that we want to change the narrative we want to take back our country but it wouldn't be easy it wouldn't be pretty or fun and it will require a major sacrifice so the question is are we ready to sacrifice because it's time to put the nation first and our personal needs last because if we do not wake up from our slumber the presidency will continue sending us further down into this abyss of national decline by turning our nation into and for a terrain regime which will eventually lead us into anarchy so we the people are the members of the government in one shape form or the other and we did this to us but we can undo this it wouldn't be easy but we must understand that we are in a fight for our lives the lives of our children so that we do not have a choice we must fight or we die in the gutters that we're built for ourselves i am Mary Annacole thanking you for watching have a good evening