 Good evening, everyone. And guess what? I have a microphone that works. Yay. So take a deep breath, please. Just a moment to transition from that room, which was so full, to another full moment. So I have the honor of introducing Bass Track Live, and this is the third of the three National Theater Project supported works that were some of the instigators for having this convening. So this means that I don't have to be on the stage anymore. One of the things that I do in my role as Director of Theater and for the National Theater Project is read presenter reports. For Bass Track Live, there were a lot of them. It's very notable the reach of this show. It went to 40 cities and worked with vets and families and theater goers and they all came together. That's really a lot of reports. It was by far the longest tour plan that I had to track and is perhaps a strong indication of the awareness and impact of the audience community, military partnerships that we are talking about over this weekend. Bass Track was performed from Pennsylvania to Nebraska, Kansas to Maine, Florida to Texas. Inconsistently presenter and audience members alike had the same comments. I wish more people had seen the show. And this was regardless of whether or not the rooms were packed and they couldn't fit any more people into the room. The comments that I read also emphasized on Guard's commitment to working with military families and to help making these stories more visible. Bass Track Live is actually the only one of the three National Theater Projects that I didn't have the opportunity to see and really it was because their hectic travel schedule rivaled my own. I'm happy to introduce Annie Hamburger and Seth Buckley who will share more about Bass Track Live and also lead the case study discussion after. Hi everybody. I'm sure you're tired. First can I just say I want to I don't I missed a lot of today unfortunately because we were here checking the show but I just want to make sure we really give a shout out to NIFA and HowlRound. They are so great. They do such great important work supporting us all. There come those moments in time that change your life and they can come up very unexpectedly and Bass Track is one of those situations. I was invited to a workshop at Juilliard by Ed Billows and Michelle Dabucci and I wasn't even sure I was going to go. I thought well maybe I'll go. I'll go because I have to. And I went and saw this workshop and it immediately spoke to me as something I needed to put my energies around. So for those of you who don't know I started on Guard Arts in 1986 to create site specific theater in New York City and did a lot of large-scale outdoor work closing off force grip blocks to the meatpacking district, Wall Street, doing the impossible, working with great artists like Anne Bogard, Chuck Me, Jonathan Larson and others ran the theater for 13 years and then went off and became the executive vice president of Disney founding a global division to bring theater artists into the parks worldwide. And then I came back to New York and I had to ask myself the question who am I now? What should I be doing and what's needed in the world? And for those of you who have been through transitions I'm sure you know that transitions are when you're in the muck right? And I saw Bass Track and it was this beautiful beautiful story about war that was nuanced that had extraordinary music and that was about a photographer, an extraordinary photographer who was embedded in an Afghanistan named Teru Kuyama. And he took these photographs and he created a Facebook page and a website to enable military families to communicate with their loved ones. And then Ed Billows and Michelle Dibucci the composers and the originators of the idea had taken verbatim text from this website and created this multimedia 20-minute piece that was extraordinary. But we were missing one very critical thing which is a director and a thinker and an innovator and a collaborator. And so I had the good fortune to meet Seth Buckley who's now been in my life over two productions because we've also done a show called Wilderness which is touring. And Seth join the team. Yes and as you can tell Annie's vision is an inspiration and I came in really not knowing Michelle or Ed the composers or the photography in question but feeling tasked to find a story to take us through you know an evening length work. And we took a documentary theater approach we sent a writer and collaborator Jason Grote a celebrated playwright and screenwriter out into across the United States. He interviewed young men who had been part of the particular Marine unit that was photographed in Teru Kuyama's original project bass track and followed up with them. And through those interviews we found a story and the story is the story of the impact of war on families. And we found one particular interview subject named AJ Shubai and his wife now ex-wife Melissa Shubai. And we ended up creating a documentary theater piece really using their story as kind of the specific off of which to tell a more universal story about service in the 21st century about war about trauma and about relationships and the impact of war on families. But I wanted to share you know the the piece that you're and I'll frame a little bit about of what you're going to see today. But we we ran into a problem where we started to try to write a play. This is where I think Andy and I started beating our head against the wall going. It feels like we're trying to write a play about AJ and Melissa and it became like you know the mini series soap opera. And it was a mess for a while. You can all relate to I'm sure. But what what I realized was that it had to start with the music. And so we created a piece that's very impressionistic and that is almost constructed like an album going from track to track song to song using original the original music of Michelle and Ed as the kind of spine of the work to tell a far more again I hope kind of impressionistic story kind of tapestry of what what this feels like to go through this kind of deployment this kind of service and this kind of return home afterwards. One other thing is we had two very very important residencies for the development of the piece. One was the University of Florida Gainesville and we came down there and did a tech residency. Actors had scripts in their hands. We had 1500 students come see the work. They all filled out questionnaires. They said we want to hear more from the families. And so I got on Skype and did Skype interviews with the wives which we then incorporated into the video design which you will see. And it made me realize and this was very personal for me that as a mom I thought to myself what would it be like if my son walked in the door and said to me I'm going to war mom. And it made me realize that we spend so much time talking about vets and we spend too little time talking about the people who are waiting for them back home. And it's the war's impact on mothers and wives and husbands and brothers and sisters and what are they going through. We don't talk about them enough. And so bass track really serves to try to talk about the experience of war with the whole family. And then we were fortunate enough to go to Arizona State University and they were fantastic. We know there's a couple of those folks in the audience here. And then did the world premiere at the University of Texas Austin and then as Keita said went to 40 cities around the country. Can I can I interject to say that one thing just from a theater making point of view I want to acknowledge how important it was to have really fully technical residencies. This is a multimedia piece. This is not a new play. This is not people sitting around a table reading a script. This is video design and music. As I said those things needed to lead the work and the work wouldn't have been what it became without residencies that really allowed for designers to be present and for real design work to be happening in a stage such as we were able to have at ASU and Florida. So what you're going to see is some of the music you're going to age a story is very interesting. So he got married before he was deployed and while he was deployed his wife Melissa had a baby and when he was in Afghanistan he was wounded and then he had to go back home. For a while he suffered from PTS or PTSD. Now he is doing very well. He went to college and we've actually kept in touch. And just one funny thing I do want to say he came to the opening night of the show. As did Melissa. As did Melissa. And AJ was sitting in the audience when Melissa was saying something and this was all verbatim tax and AJ was going I didn't say that I can't believe she said that. So it was quite something to have them meet the real performers and quite wonderful I must say. Let me just frame just quickly again what you're going to see today this afternoon. So you'll be seeing some of the archival video of the production and again the story the spine of the story is the story of AJ and Melissa their marriage and some of their stories you'll see. You will also see some of the Skype videos that Annie mentioned of wives of this of Marines from this from this unit and you're going to see bits of that archival video of the show interspersed with live music performed by Kenneth Rodriguez and then we're going to end with the final monologue with a piece performed by Chris Boucher. Thank you. Thank you. My name is Sergeant Logan from me with first town eighth Marines Bravo Company second platoon. I'm from Du Bois, Indiana. My age is 21. My first name is Michael I would listen to new produce Virginia. I'm 23 years old. My name is James Jones from Boston Mass with one eighth Bravo Company second platoon. My name is H.B. Jackson. I'm Joshua Jackson. This is my blood. My name is Cornville Sean R. Smith. I'm a squalor. First lieutenant, 80 wounds. Captain John Campbell, Bravo Company. First lieutenant, Nicholas Viskas, 26 years old. I'm last footballer, Richard Gilligan. I'm with one eighth. I'm Justin Shoe, I'm Sergeant. Last footballer, Deming. I'm afraid of the spin-off. I'm on a machine gun. I'm footballing real life. I'm going to be the 2-3 Todd Angle. I'm the second most anchor there. I'm footballer. Staff on Castelon. My name is Malice Jenkins. I'm from Dallas, Texas. I'm with the first town eighth Marines, Bravo Company, first platoon. I'm in third squad. And my billet in the squad is squad point, man. As you know, you went up the troll with me yesterday and I was at the front. Oh, man. No question about it, man. We're the best. The deal was come back to America. Then when I got home to America, there was this empty feeling. I just wanted to go back to Afghanistan. I could see in his face he wants to talk about it, but he doesn't want to talk about it. So, um, for me, the minute that he got back, he was never the same. So when you think of Marine, what do you think of? You think somebody on news right, kicking in doors with a rifle. You don't think of a mechanic or a cook, do you? That's what I wanted to do, man. I wanted to be infantry. Bass track was a website where these journalists posted photos and videos of the one eight guys. Everyone was following it. And yeah, when you're the girlfriend, yeah, you're important enough to know the bass track information. But like when you're married, all the wives have your contact information. Because I have the daughter, all the moms that had kids, it was such a bonding thing for us. And then you meet other wives and you meet veteran wives who have been through four or five deployments. It was just helpful to have that media there to be able to update you, um, Facebook posts or the website, whatever it may be, just so you knew that, hey, there, okay, I can breathe for a second. In Afghanistan, when you see people's Facebook pages that you're involved in are here in these private little group chats and they're dropping like flies. And if the phone rings or if the door knocks, whether it's pest control or the maintenance guy, your heart stops beating. Thinking that that's the guy coming to tell you he's not coming back. One of the wives, I can't remember who it was at this time. I can't remember. So long ago written me a question on Facebook chat and asked me, was it my gonzo? And I said, what are you talking about? And she said, was it your gonzo that was killed? And my jaw just dropped. At that point, you are waiting for a phone call from the Marine Corps to tell you that your loved one is passed or knock on the door or some sort of message to get to you to tell you that something has happened to them. Because I got a phone call from him and the first words out of his mouth were, it wasn't me. I'm okay. They're simple people. And I like it kind of, kind of reminds me of home. Afghanistan were more focused on parts of minds and winning people. They want electricity and they want water. And that's definitely the most important job to winning this war. It looks like something from the medieval ages. The local people start to recognize you. They start to joke with you and become a lot more familiar with you. Reminds me of home. Real worries and open eyes. Conceived and trust to get blurry after all the dirt we cleaned. Their hands were still dirty. They up and ran away. Now he's a friend. I got a very war stories. Outlaws with no glory outside. They trade your trust as soon as they get to know you. I never go out. Going new route. Forever hold out. My trust is sold out in any amount. No doubt. Yeah. Now put your eyes down. Keep two eyes down, son. Now put your eyes down. Keep two eyes down. Son. Now put your eyes down. Keep two eyes down. Don't be looking at me. And don't you make a fucking sound, yeah. Now put your eyes down. Keep two eyes down, son. Now put your eyes down. Keep two eyes down, son. Now put your eyes down. Keep two eyes down. Don't be looking at me. And don't you make a fucking sound. At first, you see they live in dirt huts. Literally houses made of dirt. It's like you open up the Bible. I mean, there's a picture. That's what you'd imagine. See, there's two different types of stress out there. There's the stress of actually operating. You know, you're constantly on guard and stuff like that. And there's the other stress of you're running patrols, but nothing's happened. You know, they say you age faster in the military for a lot of reasons. One of them, you get to the point for us, you know, when Hernandez got killed, when the staff sergeant got killed, it was like, I pray these guys shoot at us. And if I ever believe in God, I do now. God, just give me one thing. Let these people shoot at us. You know, you just, you want to do it. We got a baby girl on the way. I plan to attend college. I'm going back to, from back to school. I'm trying to go back to school. Try to be a firefighter back home in Boston. Kind of thing about getting out, just going to college, maybe for like criminal justice degree or something like that. If that doesn't work out for me, I'm just going to try to be like a cop or work for the FBI or something like that. I was going like 90 miles an hour down this side street. Like, it was cop cars a lot quicker than I thought they were. And he called up to me and I was like, well, I'm already going to jail. I might as well pull over. So he walked up to me. He's like, where are you going? I'm like, nowhere fast. My license and registration and everything. He's like, have you been drinking tonight? Yeah. He's like, can you pass a breath of water or a field sobriety test? No, we're going to take you to jail. He's like, okay, I'll be back in a minute. So he comes back and he's like, I'll see you were in the Marines, huh? I was like, yeah, he's like, what'd you do? I was in the infantry. He's like, oh, did you deploy at Afghanistan or anywhere? Did you see any combat? I said, yeah, I just got back from Afghanistan and in March. He's like, okay. He's like, well, step out of the car. All right, here we go. And he's just like, he's like, do you have PTSD? I was like, well, I'm not been officially diagnosed with it, but I'm pretty sure that I haven't. He's like, you can't keep doing this. He's like, you need to fix yourself and get your life right. Worse and worse and worse to the point that the fan would blow the curtains and he would think in his sleep that he would put his arm on me, draw his gun and get ready to shoot the damn window. I'm like, if I scare him, it'll go off. If I try and stop him, it's gonna go off. If I don't try and stop him, it's gonna go off. AJ, you're asleep. That's the fan. You need to understand, I'm right here. You've got to wake up. You're using the wrong resources to get better. You're going the destructive route. You got a warrant come back the same way they were. He's more short tempered, but it's not terrible, but it's just small changes that maybe only I would notice. You really have to be careful of what you say and how you present things. Like I said, that innocence is gone. Their whole way of thinking is completely different over there and it just affects how they respond to you when they come home. We were told by a few different people, if they're having a nightmare and you have to wake them up, don't be anywhere close to their face. He was having a nightmare and I went to wake him up and I touched the bottom of his foot and he just, I didn't think, when I thought they meant jump, then he was just gonna go like this and start all awake how some people do, but he sat straight up. He jumped up and was out of breath. You know, that blew my mind because I just, that was the first time I'd ever seen anything like that. It takes a toll. I mean, they're young guys. You know, they're not supposed to be going through all this. Their brain is not really equipped to do this. It's not how they were raised. So, you know, to go do things like this, it's really confusing for them. These guys are taught to go and kill. They're trained to do that, to kill their enemy. You know, and they're taught that it's good to do that. They eat, sleep, breathe and pray it. You know, and they come home and they know that they're not supposed to do those things obviously at home. They know that. They know right from wrong. But that kill switch is on. How do you turn that off? We tried to go to a couple's counseling, you know, but we just brought up the past and how we hated each other and how there was no fixing things. So, so I left and I was like, shit, like I have nothing. You know, I know it's ahead of me. You know, it's just going to get worse. I'm never going to get rid of this. So I was like, you know, what the hell was this? I was, I was about to kill myself. I was, I was dumb. Then I was thinking and I thought that that I wanted my daughter, obviously. So my buddy Johnson, I had his shit. You know, I had some of his pictures amongst my shit. And on his memorial booklet, he had this like blues picture. It was like it was scowling at me. You know, like, what are you doing? And I thought to myself, you know what? This is some shitty ass way to repay my friend for dying for me. So I went to the hospital and checked myself in. Exposure therapy. It's where they, they sit you down and they almost like hypnotize you. And you tell, they see you, you close your eyes and they blacken the room. Then you tell your story, you know, of like a traumatic event or whatever from the first person, like as you're doing it. I mean, it's almost like you're, oh, it's like the matrix almost. You know, if you think about that scene, whenever Neo is like, I need guns. And like all of a sudden the guns just show up. He's like, I need to be here. And everything just sort of falls. So your eyes are closed and you're just telling it. And you always start from the very same spot. The first couple of times I did it, you know, my eyes are closed and she asks, so where are you? I said, I'm on my base in Afghanistan. She says, what do you smell? I smell shit. He says, well, what time is it? I said, well, I'm on my truck, just kicking my boots, just killing time waiting on my boys wake up because it's time to go. He says, well, how do you feel? And I swear to God, like I can just see the moon, you know? It's like, it's like late November and I'm cold. And I can literally see my breath coming off. I'm like, oh my God, are you serious? I mean, it's kind of cool. But then you start getting into the bad shit and then it sucks. So you're sitting there and you're just telling it and you're forced to tell the same story just like over and over and over and over again. And the idea is it like, if you have a scab and you rip it off, you know, the very first time you do it, it hurts like a son of a bitch. And the second time it hurts like a son of a bitch. But then it's not so bad. You know, then it's not so bad. And then it just doesn't hurt anymore. You know, then it's just skin. I mean, you might have a little scar, you know, but whatever. Yeah, it worked. I mean, it literally saved my life. But then Melissa left me and I went and I saw my doctor again and I go in there and I'm telling her, you know, that my wife just like left me. I'm like, this is over. You know, my life is over. You know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she's just smiling at me the whole time. And I look at her and I'm like, what do you think is so great that you have to smile about? And she goes, well, you don't see it yet, but you started this because of her. I was like, yeah, because I wanted to get better, you know, for my family. And she says, all right, well, you know, she broke up with you. She dumped you. Like, yeah. She says, well, you at a bar right now getting drunk. No, you came in to see me. It just hit me, you know, I was like, oh, shit, she's right. And then I started telling her all these things, you know, that I had been like running away from the things I didn't want to talk about the shit I just kept bottled up. And then all of a sudden it just wasn't a big deal anymore. Because, I mean, yeah, you might have a little scar, you know, but it's just skin. Hi. So given that we went to 40 cities around the country, we wanted to talk about some of the wonderful things that happened and some of the things that could be improved upon in our partnerships with presenters. I did want to just briefly summarize our developmental process from an engagement point of view. You all have had the good fortune to meet Art De Groot. And I consider myself in that fan club. And one of the things I'm finding as I'm doing this social justice work is that it is a rare bird who's not in the arts and who doesn't have a lot of exposure to the arts, who really gets the power of the arts to impact social change. And when you meet that person, you hold on to them for dear life. And so Art, who's the director of military affairs of Kansas State, and I got on the phone when we were talking about going to Kansas State and we became fast friends. And since then, he has been a tireless advocate for a bass track working very closely with presenters and giving us tremendous validity within the military community as well as being a real guide for presenters to help them to connect with their communities. So would you like that? Yeah, well, it was an honor to be a part of this and still be a part of the bass track. I made a list of some of the things, the tasks. And again, these were all novel things that I had really never done before. I got involved in the creative process. There was an issue with the script, the final script, because veterans demand accuracy in a script, but a non-vector audience would lose the story. And so I worked with the team and tried to broker how much accuracy in military jargon was important without losing the civilian audience. I got involved in helping the presenter. I got involved with engaging veterans organizations as a fellow veteran and asking them to gather comfort zone and go to the theater and support this work and the people that do this work. I got involved in fundraising. I actually took some behavioral science research and found a evidence-based approach to why this work is not just art. It promotes well-being and civic understanding. So I provided some empirical basis that this work is grounded in good science. So those were some of the marketing and promotion, outreach programs, and the 2016 tour. I got to go to six cities and do the talk-backs on stage, get to organize and participate with Ann in some of the public engagements, particularly veteran students on college campuses that had theaters. That was very rewarding. So we touched probably 300 people before we ever got on stage. So those were some of the things, laundry list of others that I was involved with and I think they were impactful. And I want to do this more. So Chris went to the 15 cities. The actor who was in the film was a different actor and veteran. And Chris took over for him. But I would like this to be very interactive rather than us doing a lot of talking. And I know that I'm presuming that it's safe to say that every person in here really deeply cares about the world and using the arts for social change. So there's a lot of really, really smart people in here. And it's really hard work as we know. It was hard for us to get audiences. Some places we were more successful than others. One of my favorite moments was when 750 high school students came into Royce Hall in LA and I asked everyone how many of the students had loved ones who'd been in the service and three quarters of them raised their hands. And then I said, how many of you have those loved ones that are willing to talk about it and almost no one? Raise their hands. So those are the kinds of moments that keep you going. But I wanted to do a little exercise. And the exercise is for all of you and for us, I'm going to start it. And I'm going to start it with a sentence that says, I wish I could with regard to engagement and bringing these kinds of shows to your theaters. So I'll start it. And then I'd like you all to continue. For me, it would be, I wish I could stay longer in a city to develop relationships more fully. Able to convey exposure therapy so well. It's a brutal treatment. The fact that you also engage the matrix analogy, we use it very often with our soldiers. They've stepped outside the box and now we're asking them to come back in. How do they do that? So the metaphor is beautiful. And it was just very powerful. And I wish I could get you to Fort Hood. We can talk. Well, as a fellow Texan, I wish I could have brought you to Dallas, Texas. I think one of the, it was early in my tenure at SMU and we were talking to APAC about co-presenting. And I think at the time, APAC's mind frame was still very transactional. So it quickly boiled down to audience and the ability to sell tickets, right? And the time that we take, there wasn't, I don't know if they ever had a chance to talk to you, Mr. DeGro, about the things that you can do. But I don't even know if they were open to it at the time. So that I think has since changed a little bit, but that's my answer to your prompt. I wish I could help you. Bass track, help us Carpaback speedkill my cousin. Help them help us all. I'd like to thank you for your compliments, but I'd love to hear tactically and strategically how one might make a difference in terms of trying to shake loose the tree a little bit with making these kinds of shows happen beyond bass track. I loved your show, by the way. Yes, that was beautiful. So I'm going to answer the wish thing. This is Madison. I wish that I could translate better because I think a lot of this is about translating from one field to another field. I will bring you to Atlanta because I think it's important to have not only this work, but these kinds of works. And I think tactically, what I'm getting out of when feeding back from the group is that we do need more time. And we need to figure out ways and to Susie's question earlier, what can we do? Where do we need help? Where are the gaps? I think the gaps are in multiple trips to Atlanta to, with multiple bodies in the room, not just me, not just you, but art and others. And we go as a collective to partners and funders and we start a conversation years before a show ever appears. So that's something that I've been trying to set up, but would love to continue that conversation. Any chance? Actually, so it's funny, the way that I got connected to BassTrack actually was through a kind of a business pursuit. I was working with Bedlam in New York, but it was actually because of something I was developing to try and connect audiences and hear. And the thing that I've learned through going through this process with them, because I'm still very new to the arts, was kind of the production source. We look, I think, at the arts and as we try and connect to audiences. And there's the fiscal component and there's the artistic and social justice component. The problem is I think we try and do everything on the tail end. Like you front load all the effort and the cost and the expenditures on the front end, and then you only start reaching out kind of towards the tail end right there. And the problem with that is that it lends itself to a distribution model, which we don't have. We are in a theater. We have to bring people to the product. You can't really export the product the same way you can a movie or a show. That's not what we're selling. That's not what we're doing. In the front load, there is so much value. So you made a comment. I've, you are the first person, because I've been trying to push this as an idea for a long time. And thank you, sweet Jesus, for being someone who'd say that because there's no reason we shouldn't be opening up this part of the process. We as artists, where do we find the real, the real long-term satisfaction? It's in that creation. And there is value there. If we perceive the value and feel it, I promise you the audience will too. Why aren't we inviting audiences in to watch our rehearsals? I understand safe space. I've heard it. But a certain gentleman by the name of Mike Pence argued that there, or Trump on his behalf, argued that there should be a safe space. And we all said, fuck that. It's not a safe space. So why are we holding our audiences to a different standard than we hold ourselves? We should be opening up the audition process, the rehearsal process, the writing process. Everything should be an opportunity beforehand. And as it takes a year or two to open these things up, you can start developing interest and you can start developing word of mouth marketing. You can start developing an audience before there's even a product and they will see you and they will see what you are doing, see the genuineness, and bring it in there. So as far as tactical, too. And in the end, this is a part I hate to say because as artists, we all know that we are giving 100%. But the simple fact of the matter is, we need to give more. And at the end of the show, I know you're wasted. I know it's incredibly exhausting. But you have to be willing to have, why isn't every show doing a talk back like this? You have to be then willing to talk about all the emotion you just left gunshot splattered on the floor and explain it to people because they might not understand it. They might not get it. They need that translation to get there. And we not once did we have a talk back session that petered out naturally. We had to shut down every talk back session because everyone was so ridiculously engaged and wanting to talk about it. And the audiences want that because that's what differentiates us. We're not a screen. You can actually talk. I can't ever talk to Brad Pitt or Samuel Jackson on the screen like, what was it like making that movie? They can do that. And they want to do that. We have to let them do that. I'll give you a little list. We talked about the purpose of veterans, presenting veterans are creating it for civic literacy and understanding veterans. Here's just a quick list of the issues that were in Bay's track that we brought into discussion in the community. AJ's decision to join the military. Insights into relationships between young service members and their significant others and families. Resocialization and institutionalization into the unique socio-culture of the military. Social bonding with new military peers through the depths of connections, Marines and their spouses. Witness high risk pregnancy confounded by combat deployment of the father. We see a first war in contemporary social and the social network culture where they're co-president in both because of Facebook social media on the battlefield, first generation to be co-president on the home front and the battle front, the war front at the same time. AJ's experience in actual modern combat IEDs and firefights in Afghanistan is a new way of war. Living through loss and reporting of loss of comrades. New way of reporting that for this generation. Coming home was a good and a bad thing. Wounded psychological impacts of rapid departure from the unit. Confronting life changing transitions out of the military after being highly bonded, invested and identified. Nature of departure has lived with confounding presence of PTSD. Issue a personal path towards destruction of untreated PTSD. Motivation to be treated and outcomes of adequate treatment. Those were the issues that came out mostly from the audience inspired by these themes that were addressed beautifully and appropriately in the art. And Anne, Colleen, one of the things I wish for you we had an amazing experience and I wish that we all who are in the presenting field can lend our credibility to your work to Carpet Bag to hold them down to all of this work to say not only is it important in engaging and connecting our communities but it's just plain great theater. And I think more people will take a chance. Thank you. Thank you, Colleen. You know, one thing I just wanted to answer Anne's question. I wish we could and I want to answer that question from a pedagogical point of view. I'm a teacher and I work in higher education and I know that many of the presenters are affiliated with institutions of higher education I wish we could integrate the arts into the educational experience holistically and it speaks to I think what Chris is saying about involving students so that art is not this pedestal it's not this weird thing that the artsy students do it's not it's actually part of your overall educational experience as in a liberal arts institution. You know, when I was inspired we were really inspired I think by what happened at University of Florida which if you don't know as Annie said I think earlier in our introduction we had the tremendous fortune of bringing in hundreds of first year undergraduates who were essentially required to come and see our work in progress showing and this program called the Good Life Program it's sort of a program over the summer that allows incoming freshmen to study like works of philosophy and ask these like big questions about what am I doing with my life and what does one do with one's life what is the good life. I found that really inspiring not only because students are asking big questions that you know at a mostly at a quite a young age and some include veterans who are coming in to the university system after their deployments and after their service but you know the fact that the arts was just part of that course and that attending it was simply and kind of casually integrated into that curriculum I found really inspiring and it made me think that a big part of the solution to I don't know I think bringing more folks into a work like this is to embed it more carefully and deeply into educational programming and academic programming Raman Bhaka exit I do I do just want to say one thing which is that Michael Blatchley told me that the reason he was able to do this program was because he had support at the very highest echelons of the school it was the president of the school who signed on for this and it would I wish we could get to all the presidents go ahead Raman Raman Bhaka exit 12 dance company and I I want to echo a lot of what you've been saying exit 12 has the same similar issues when we our audiences say why isn't everybody seeing this but then we have good on got a good audiences in some places we go and then mediocre audiences in other places but the places where we have the most success are where we have we went to Stanford University and we had a similar engagement with a freshman class that was an arts immersion class they brought in students from every discipline to experience the arts and they lived together they ate together they took a diversity of classes together and it was all centered around the arts we did a workshop with them in the morning and then they came they wanted to come and see the performance and so I wish that more presenters would help us with the legwork to get those things happening in order to bring more people to see the work that was really surprising to me when we did this that I what I found out is not having done this was my first gig at like this level of the game and whatnot was that I found out that like you have to rely on the venues when you're touring to do that and but I do want to say so just I'm curious how many presenters are in the room would you raise your hands and how many of you feel like you have the time in the resources to do the advanced legwork that you need to do for these kinds of shows so Anne could I this is Liz could I could I speak to this for just a minute and just I really want to respond to Chris's your your articulation of process as being an engagement necessity that came from what Madison said that's what I was attempting to say yesterday but I also have a slight cautionary tale here and that is if you truly flip the hierarchy you cannot privilege the end performance to the engagement activities that are taking place so what we want to understand is that you do the engagement because well because art matters because because these stories matter because connecting to my neighborhood school or the person in prison or wherever I've gone matters and yes working alongside people like Colleen and Michael and other presenters here yes this may accumulate to audience at our performance but likely is not that's because they've gotten to know us not I mean it's because we connected because something happened and yes because they are in these amazing programs that some schools are putting in place so I just it isn't only about that and I the reason I raise it as cautionary is that I believe if we make it be about that there's a there's a slight feeling of exploitation not really but there's some way that it comes off not quite entirely there and I have to just say I having done an engagement work my entire life I I've only learned this by experience and by the times I didn't do that and I thought it was about getting people to the show and I'm not sure I'm just not sure about that so happy to hear more people I'm curious I'm sorry I'm curious I don't I don't think I caught what you picked up what you were laying down I'm just it just that it can't only be that we're doing engagement so that people will come see us when we come back and do our big show oh no no you do it because what you want just like Simon Sinek would would say does it go Simon Sinek Golden Circle YouTube it's a fantastic video you don't say look my goal is to get people here the place it's got to come from is I'm engaging people so that they can better appreciate the artistic process and they can better connect with this message oh yeah absolutely no it's definitely a two-way definitely a two-way street so yeah you don't do it in order to fill seats filling seats is a side effect just like you don't you are hopefully ideally you don't do a job so you make money you do a job you love and a side effect is that you make money well I'm not sure I agree with either of you totally actually let's go but with all due respect because I think you do beautiful work but I am an artist I'm not a social worker I don't run a social service organization I'm not a PTS expert I'm not a military expert the way in which I have chosen to reach out and try to impact the world is through my work I spent two years interviewing vets this piece is comprised of verbatim text I have worked with the presenters as successfully as possible and trying to engage the community I can only do so much as the fact that I'm not a permanent member of that community the presenters are and where the presenters I think have more funding more staffing they can create kind of ongoing programs but for me the way I feel and I also don't feel like there's one right way to do things the work is what I give to my audience and hopefully working with people like art and the people who are the presenters being successful what do you say kind of givers of that work or hosts of that work it can be a meaningful experience I mean that's I don't think that one's counted to what was said I don't think that's a contrary statement or this one actually I'm going to take us off track for a second I first wanted to the trumpeter rap artist fair on the table you are such a bad ass I mean that was awesome awesome I also just wanted to address the comment that you made about bringing art back into school I actually feel very strongly about that comment as well partially because I have six children and so I've seen kind of along the way where they start to learn or start to think that they're not artists anymore but just the idea of bringing it back in right so at work you know we have yoga therapists and one of the key things that they do is really work with the breath they don't bring the breath in they acknowledge the breath that's already there that we're using all the time I feel like art is the same thing it's there all the time you don't need to bring it it's there you just need to acknowledge it and this is going to be the last question from or comment from Michelle I yes I would like to just stay on the educational component and the resource component has there been any thought of possibly putting together virtual production you know we see this as a multimedia work but it's a live performance and artists like Chris and Kenny you know this is this is the intention of the work you know for me this piece at least at its heart is a is a theater work and what I mean by that is simply that it's about human beings together in a room hearing a story told by other human beings so for me the human element as a work cannot be reduced away that's that's my take as a theater artist I feel that live music and live acting is is essential yeah I'd just like to conclude by thanking everyone who participated and to just say that you know at the center of this work and every work that I do is about crossing the divide and really trying to get out of the echo chamber that so much of our work is in unfortunately and and I went to a mental health conference last April about for wilderness and I as a therapist in the room how many of them have ever heard of documentary theater and not one person raised their hand so to me that is what is the greatest urgency is how to jump the fence and reach across the divide I know hope we can all support one another and trying to do that in our own ways so thank you