 Would you rather be tortured? Let's just say it's an hour, but you get to live at the end of it. Or I'll put a gun to your head and shoot you in the face and you die instantly. I've never been put in a position where I had to think about it, because I've never been in a position to actually have to do it, you know what I mean? Just like the idea of eating vegetables alone just puts me... I don't eat vegetables alone. It's a cow trying to escape being killed, actually. Do you think they understand a little bit? Definitely. They get scared? They're beings. They're beings. Yeah. But I could never do it myself, you know what I mean? I know it's wrong. I know it's f***ing wrong. I could never do it myself. We own farms and stuff. I could never do it. They do it because I was in the family. I could never do it though. But I still eat it, I mean, I don't know. So you still pay out the people that do it for you? Yeah, I get... It's very... I just say it. I don't know the word, but it's hypocritical, you know what I mean? I couldn't do it myself if I get someone else to do it for me, you know what I mean? At least I'm aware of it. I don't have to tell you anything, really. Yeah, no. I'm not going to cover up. You're honest person, actually. You're not trying to defend anything. You know what's wrong. That was my first step to changing, actually. I called myself a hypocrite. I don't think I could do it without it. Lifestyle-wise, I don't think I could. Well, in a practical sense. I should, but I don't think I could. Because you can't imagine how it could be done? Just like the idea of eating vegetables alone just puts me off. I don't eat vegetables alone. Which is like the fate of me and stuff. Well, it depends. If I want a burger, I just get a vegan burger. If I want some ice cream, I just get some vegan ice cream. I've never tried it. I've just never thought about trying it. Well, the first step is motivation. Like you said, they're beings. Do you think it's justified what happens to them so we can eat them? I think what bothers me more, the killing bit... Not so much? It's not so much. It's the way to the killing. You know what I mean? When they're like overstuffed to the point where they can't walk. Just like the plumpest chickens at the market. That's what bothers me a lot more than the actual killing. Because out in nature, it's water. I'm not saying they're destined to die straight away, but it's the treatment beforehand, I think, which really bothers me the most. Why are you bothered that they experience suffering? Because they shouldn't, you know what I mean? Like, in that sense. Yeah, you don't care just about suffering. You care about if that suffering is attached to someone, don't you? That's why a lot of people get moved by things that only affect them, you know what I mean? It doesn't affect them so much because they don't care. You would care if a human being right now was suffering? Definitely, yeah. Because you know something about human beings, don't you? That there's an individual experiencing that suffering? Yeah, you kind of feel full. Inside of you, both, is a subject of a life. You're not just this body that experiences pain. There's someone in there that is suffering. Okay, that's your being. That's who you are. And do you think animals are someone as well? So you care about the individual that is suffering, the animal, who they are. So you said you didn't care about the killing, but why don't you care as much? I'm like the main fact that the suffering is the suffering of the animal. Same with you. If you were both being tortured, that would bother me more than someone just walking up and shooting. But wait a second. What if you were just being tortured and you got to live? There's a constant. What would you rather? I haven't asked anyone this before. Would you rather be tortured, cause suffering? Let's just say it's an hour. I'll torture you both for an hour, but you get to live at the end of it. Or I'll put a gun to your head and shoot you in the face and you die instantly. You don't even have time to get scared. You'd rather get shot in the face and not live. Seriously? You? Would you rather get tortured for one hour and live? Yeah, I mean the idea of torturing you. You get to continue. Yeah, wait. So you would rather die and lose the rest of your life to evade an hour worth of torture? Really? I would rather someone torture me and I get to live for the rest of my life and enjoy certainly an hour. It depends on the extent of the torture, you might not be able to have a good quality of life. What if it's a roundabout of what a chicken experience is in a factory farm? I'm just trying to find out what you really think is worse, suffering or losing your life. What if I relieve you of that suffering after a short amount of time and you get to live the rest of your life? How am I going to suffer though? Just break both of your arms or something? That's what I'm saying though, I'll break both of your arms. I'll do it. With a hammer? It's harder than this. Okay. You don't get to pick though if you're getting tortured. No, no, I'll pick. I'll break both of your arms with a hammer and you get to live. Or I'll shoot you in the head really quickly. You don't feel it, you're just out, gone, you lose your life. Well, like the quality of life you're going to have after getting both arms broken, like you might not be able to recover fully, right? No, you will. So where's the trader? In this hypothetical you will. Be in torture, you pick the torture because you get to live. Okay, so it's much worse to lose your life than it is to be tortured. Provided you're not being tortured for eternity. It comes as a given life. Yeah. So it depends on the extent of the torture whether or not you want to. Yeah, okay. So I'm trying to say like losing your life is very... It's what everyone tries to avoid, right? Of course. Getting the most before they get to die. And an animal does anything to survive. They're like us. Like if I was chasing you around with a gun, you're going to be f***ing running. Yeah. You know what I mean? And they're no different. So I was trying to get to this point where you go it is actually just wrong to kill unless you have a very, very good justification for it. What do you think about that? Do you agree with me that it's wrong to kill unless you have a really good justification for it? It is wrong. But like I've never been put in the position where I had to think about it because I've never been in a position to actually have to do it. You know what I mean? Like I think to open people's eyes need to be presented with opportunity. A lot of people will do it because the world's going f***ing crazy these days. But until you're put into the position where like you actually have to hurt something with someone, then you don't kind of like feel it. You know what I mean? Because you're not doing it. You're not affected by it. I'm trying to put you, not in the perpetrator's position where you have to kill. I'm trying to put you mentally into the victim's position where you're going to die. And let's just say you're on the other end of my decision to kill you. And I say it's for a burger. And then I'll forget about tomorrow because I have burgers all the time. That's the thing. It's like you like the flavour. Of their body. And they lose everything. Often, most of the time they are suffering in factory farms and having their calves taken, their piglets taken and they're being often tortured and mutilated. This is just standard practice. But even in the hypothetical where they don't suffer a humane situation. Still die. You're murdering them, essentially. And the way they do it's just costly. Exactly. I wouldn't want to be slaughtered in an inhumane, torturous way. Well, he jumped over. But I wouldn't want to be killed either. Yeah. By a hitman shot in the back of the head. So there's always a third option. There's torture and kill. Don't torture and kill. And then there's be vegan. Which is the most preferable option for the animals. I mean, it depends on the person. It depends on this person. You can't change the world. I just feel like it's so normalized. I know. I only care about yous right now. I know it's a big problem. It's been normalized. That's the best. It has. No one's going to yell at you right now if you go buy a burger with meat in there. You'll get judged by getting a vegan burger. But no one will say shit about getting a normal one. I'll get judged and abused online all the time. They're like, no. They'll give you a funny look. They'll be like, oh, this bloody vegan. I don't care, actually. Because what I believe, I'm principled. Yeah, I stand for that. Like, I will tell everyone I'm vegan and I'll have the debate with them. Because I really truly believe in this. Because, you know, you guys. You need to tell them why they're... Yeah, yeah, of course. I'm proud to be vegan. I'm proud to, like, in this world right now, everyone follows each other. They say shit. And I, yeah, exactly. I love sheep, though. But you're right. They do easily, they're easily led. And that's because they're so vulnerable, actually. That's why they're so easily slaughtered as well. It's good just to be different, man. Go against the grain. Anyways, mate, we'll see you around. We've got time crunch. Wait, where can we see this? This? Do you want to see the video? Yeah, I mean if you do want. Yeah, Joe, this is my name here. Joey Carpstrong. Good luck on my YouTube channel. Yeah, I'll take something I can take a picture of. Go on, take the picture. This is my name here. Work it, mate. Have a nice one. Do you want this? Did I give you one? I don't mind, no. Okay, grab it. This is the best app. Happy cow. Got you. Thank you. Peace. No worries. You're Margarita now. Yeah, vegan. Use happy cow. Hello. Hello, how are you? We're both vegan. Oh, really? Are you? Of course you can. Let's go, let's go. Oh, thank you. Really nice to meet you. We can see you in action in person. Thank you for being vegan. How long have you been vegan for? Six years. Six years. Wow, six years. A lot of people have been vegan for six years, 2016. Yeah, it's a bit of a veganuary. Veganuary, bless veganuary. And you say vegan ever since? Vegan ever since, yeah. There you go, Matthew, veganuary. Friends of mine actually, veganuary. Okay, take care. Have a good one.