 I'm your host, Abe Lee. I have been a licensed real estate agent since 1973. I'm the owner of Century 21 I-Property's OIE and work with close to 100 wonderful agents in real estate sales. I started Abe Lee seminars in 1980. I have taught over 11,500 students to help them get their real estate licenses and have taught continuing education classes for licensees to renew their license every two years. Our show is dedicated to helping buyers and sellers understand the process involved in a real estate transaction. A special guest will talk about legal issues, as well as title, getting a loan, surveys, home inspections, insurance, contracts, wills and trust, and much, much more. Today we're really grateful to have this beautiful young lady who has had her license since 2001, if you can believe it, which means that she's been in this business for 23 years and I think she started when she was 10. So we're really grateful to have Jennifer Andrews with us today. Jen, thank you for being with us. Thank you, Abe, and it's a pleasure and a privilege for being on the show with you. So thank you. Thank you, Abe. And you were my pre-licensing instructor. All right, so Jen, tell us a little bit about you, where you grew up, your family, what schools you went to and how you got started in real estate, but you have a very interesting background. Well, my father was military Air Force. He was in the Air Force for almost 24 years when he retired. Well, actually 24 years and then he was able to retire, but he met my mom when he was stationed in South Korea. So we've traveled a lot since the time I was born between California, South Korea, Guam, and Hawaii, and we went back multiple times. So this is from the time I was born until the time of 1986 when we settled in in Hawaii for my dad's, what he thought was the last station, and that he got a call about being stationed in Korea, South Korea, and my mom said, yes, take it. And of course, he's like, I was ready to retire and she's like, no, you're not because we're going back to South Korea so I could see my family. So my older sister and I were able to grow up in South Korea until I was about four years old before we moved to Guam. But my younger sister and brother also had the opportunity to live in Korea, which I thought was great because they get to know the culture, you know, where they're from. Yeah, so we went back and forth and then after my senior year in high school, I graduated at Seoul American High School, which is a DOD school, the Blue House, the Korean Blue House since has moved. That's their version of the White House to Young Sung Garrison. And came back to Hawaii, went to UH, got my art degree, and everybody said, what are you going to do with an art degree because you can't make money? And I was like, that's true. Even my professor, my last year, we're doing the thesis and my professor said, Jen, have you ever thought of doing real estate? I was like, are you trying to tell me something? This is right before I graduate with a Fine Arts degree. Are you trying to say something to me? He said, no, you know, it's tough. And the reality of being a working artist is very, is tough. So have you thought about what you would do in the interim? And real estate came up. I didn't know anything about real estate. At just happenstance, many people were just bringing up real estate. And when I was, so that's actually the segue of me getting into real estate is, you know, coming back to Hawaii, getting my art degree and then everybody telling me, you can't make a living with that. It's kind of like me getting a degree in Asian Studies at the University of Hawaii. I knew I wasn't going to be an Asian Studies professor unless I got a PhD, which I didn't want to do. So I got insurance sales and then real estate. But Koreans are entrepreneurial. And so you must have that Korean blood in you that has that entrepreneurial spirit. Koreans are very entrepreneurial, even if they have a steady nine to five job in their, in their mind, they're still looking for something. Okay, so let's start off. Okay. What did you do with your first company? And how did you get started? How'd you pick them? Actually, my broker, so my other half of Dan and I had been looking for a condo. And at that time, you know, it was 2000. Bottom of the market, 10 pages are for closures. You remember those days, you represented a lot of HUD properties, and it was all bidding a process. And we didn't have much money. Let's put it nicely, right? We, and when we had spoke with a number of realtors, they basically all said, well, it's not worth my time, because you don't have the dime. And, but luckily, we got in touch with an amazing realtor. He's, he's not in Hawaii anymore. He has since moved to the mainland. But his name was Philip Johnston. I don't know if you remember him. He was at Premiere Realty 2000 where I started and took the pre licensing class from you. And so he helped me and my other half to get the condo bid and said, he goes, Jen, why don't you get your license and work under me and I'll mentor you. And that's how I got into the business. Perfect. So then you've had a, what I would call a variety of jobs that very few realtors will ever have the experience of having. And really, I think it's going to take two shows to cover everything and what you've learned and what you can teach the consumer and the viewers, of course. So tell me about your experience about selling for a major developer, because you were there for a few years. Yes, yes. And I worked with the state agency too. So that was different dynamics because you're not just working with the private sector. You're also working with the state sector. And what I found with developers really is, well, it depends on the size. You know, I've done condo conversions that are smaller, but the larger developments were definitely a learning progress. And when people ask me, how did you get to where you are? How did you learn what you know? I just tell them, just dive into it. Because you don't know what you don't know, right? And you're only going to figure out what you need to know is when you actually start to dig and dig deep. And that's, at that time, I decided to take my CCIM courses because I thought- Hold on. Tell us what CCIM stands for. Oh, it's a certified commercial investment member. So, you know, I didn't get the designation, but I was actually thinking if I'm going to work with developers, I need to know this background. And what I found was just like in residential sales, you're going to read a lot, but you're not necessarily going to use all of it. And it's on the job training. So for me, I was able to ask people who are boots on the ground, the superintendents, the people that were at the development company and at the state, how do projects work? What does it take? And they're the ones that actually taught me about how to do a project, how to run a project. But what I can say is, as long as the developer that you're working for is willing to work with you, then you'll have a successful project sales. Because it really is bringing everybody to the table. And we did that every week. Literally, everybody came to the table to find out what was going on with the project, to keep it going seamlessly. So can you tell us what was the project that you worked on? And was it focused on affordable housing or middle market or upper end? And what was your responsibilities there? So the first couple of projects I did were actually condo conversions. So those are apartment buildings that were converted to condominiums. Those are pretty straightforward. But the major development projects that I worked on was actually with the Department of Hawaiian Homelands. And I worked with a number of different construction partners that they had. So they do it two ways. DGTO will either be the developer or there'll be a partner. And if they're a developer, then they have to hire a contractor. If they're a partner, they do a JV. So I worked on Kanahili, which was 350 lots. And that was between DHHL and Gentry Homes. So you do a lot of prep work. It's different than when I work with Gentry in their private sector. So I was at Forage and KLEE, where you work with the public. The biggest difference I would say is the process. With Boeing Vertical, you have to have the buyers upfront. When you go urban sprawl, single family homes, developers will usually build and then they sell. So it's a different process depending on the product type. But I have to say that DHHL project is still near and dear to my heart because it really wasn't so much about, I mean, of course the homes, you can't, you know, it's a brand new home, but it's the legacies in the families, the generational dreams of home ownership and meeting those goals for those families. That was the biggest reward. So it's not about getting paid. You don't get necessarily paid a lot on projects, but the rewards is the human touch, the human interaction and you being able to be part of someone's journey. With DHHL, if I'm not mistaken, you have to be 50% Hawaiian? To be an applicant, you must be 50% Hawaiian. And then if it's transferred, then whoever it's being transferred to, if it's a beneficiary, meaning like it's a familial transaction to parent, to child, to sibling, then it's 25%. But if it's non-relationship transfer, then it's still 50%. That is something that they need to work on. And then you have to deal with lease land and not fee simple land? Yes. And how much was the lease rent? Lease is actually only a dollar a year. So it's essentially fee simple and it's 99 years and after the 99 years are over, the beneficiary has the option to extend it for another 99 years. It's essentially 200 years at a dollar a year. I would take that in our fee, of course. So you're dealing with new homes that were being built for the Hawaiians? Yes, yes. And it was the same development that Genchi would do in any other project that they have. The only difference is that it was exclusive to the beneficiaries because it was a particular type of property and program. Okay. So taking that experience, how do you translate that to a regular citizen who's not Hawaiian and who's a buyer? How do you help them to get over this fear of being a homeowner and having this humongous mortgage that's going to be paid in 30 years, 360 payments? How do you get them prepared? You know, interestingly, it's not different. The process isn't different in terms of what you're doing to counsel the client. When it comes to DHHL projects, the homeowners do need to take a homebuying class, first time homebuyers so that they understand their budget and the counselor will teach them. I know you work with a Hawai'i Homeownership Center. So they also offer those same services to the beneficiaries. I think anybody who's interested in purchasing should take one of these classes just for their information. But at the end of the day, if you're looking to buy a home, I would treat them no different. I tell them what to expect, that there's going to be the unexpected that comes up. But there is a benefit to homeownership. It's knowing that you're investing in yourself. You can live, you know, subject to rules if it's in a project. But I also think what it is, is you're investing in yourself and you're, you know, looking to create wealth of real estate. And I think that's great. You know, it's a step up stone. I started in a tiny, tiny condo. You know, I tell homebuyers this too. You don't have to buy your dream home the first time. In fact, you're not going to get your dream home the first time. You may not be living in your dream home the fifth time, but it's a stepping stone and you work your way forward and don't overextend, is what I tell them. So I work closely with them on their budget and expectations of reality of being a homeowner, meaning you can't just call the landlord and say fix the leak. No, you got to call the plumber. You got to pay the bill. Yeah. Okay. Now you moved over to the gentry market units. And how was that transition from working with DHL to now selling to the general public? You know, working with DHL is definitely a lot more proactive because we're the ones as a sales team and as homebuying counselors in a sense of reaching out to the homebuyers. So we did about two years of prep work before we went to what they call lot selection and we did multiple presentations. So the time span is a lot longer to prepare buyers for home ownership with DHL projects versus if you're going to market basically a homebuyer walks in. Hopefully their agent if they're represented is there with them and they take a look at the property and they put their name on a list. It's very different. You're not really working with them as closely from a market perspective because the buyer is a customer and really it's here's the product. Here's the price. Do you like it? Buy it. It's really simple. You know, that's where a well oiled machine, a great developer who's reputable and trustworthy. You know like when they say they're going to close, they're going to close and that's what made at least working for Gentry Home so easy because they are very much so a well oiled machine. Well, they've been doing that for a long time. 50 plus years, yeah. Yeah. And they live in the neighborhoods that they build so it's important for them that they do it right. Sure. So with Gentry Homes on the market rates units, sometimes you're dealing with outside brokers that bring in buyers and sometimes people walk in and then they don't have an agent working for them but you're still going to be helping them to buy the house and put through the whole process. So how do you prep the buyers that are walking off the street and don't know what to do and don't have an agent working with them? Yeah, if they're unrepresented or even if they are and they're not familiar, we definitely would sit down with the client and tell them the process or to say the customer, the buyer to tell them the process because different projects will have different processes. If it's an affordable housing part of that affordable housing pool, they have to be qualified through the HHSFDC to make sure that they qualify for those shared appreciation programs. If it's a market sale, a lot of times it's really just sharing what we do as a developer. Totally different than if you're going to the resale market because you don't have all those contingencies and it's not about, hey, I'm going to offer you this price, developer sets the price, you choose to buy it or not. There's not a lot of negotiations but we do give them a timeline and a description of the construction process. Okay, so now you went then from there to a broker in charge. I'm not sure about the exact sequence but you were a broker in charge of a cobalt banker office in Kailua as one of your responsibilities. How is that different and what did you do to help your agents that you're responsible for and then how did you train your agents to make sure that they took care of their clients properly? You know, I think what is really important to have a healthy brokerage is to make sure that you understand the culture that the agents want. You know, a lot of times it's what the management wants and it's not necessarily what the agents want. So when I was promoted to take over the winward office as a branch manager, the first thing I said to the agents is what do you want to see happen in this office? What is it that you don't like? What are the changes that you do want? And it was really more about having these open conversations with the agents and the number one thing they said is I want my broker to be available and I want them to be able to support me when I need them because availability with brokers can be tough, you know, and I had and considering as a small office, I think we had about 60 agents, you know, whereas when I came from the other office, I had about 100 agents under me. So training we did every week, training I did, I never stayed in my office unless I needed to be. So unless an agent needed to sit with me confidentially, I was always out and about walking around the office making sure that everybody needed assistance. And I needed to know what everybody else did. My position as a managing broker or PB is if somebody in the office is not available, I need to be the backup. So I had to learn everything. And to me, that's what you do. You show the agents, you learn, and then you pay it forward. And that's how they get to this community of it's not a competition amongst us. We want to support each other and help each other get better and be better. So how did you go about maybe refining the training program that you folks had? Because you had a training program, I know, with NATO or a new agent training organization. But beyond NATO, what did you do to implement a more thorough training program? Because the agents all need ongoing training, no matter what. Yes, yes. I am a huge advocate for post licensing training. And you can do a new agent training course. But it's not going to really be the same as if you have continual support. So I started to do a class called the Anatomy of the Purchase Contract. I started that when I first joined Colwell Banker back in 2013, because there was a need for training for post licensing. And I would meet with the agents. It started off once a week, and then it gradually went to every other week. But I basically take a full year to go over the 14 pages. And what we do is we go by contingency and we talk about it in depth. And what I found is that agents have really found that to be super helpful because already are, right? So, you know, when you have to break it down and have real discussions, I think that's the biggest, for training purposes, I got the biggest feedback as far as this is what exactly I was looking for in training, because you get to have real conversations. So just to let people know, RDR means realtor's don't read. That's why you did class. And I coined that phrase when I was teaching free licensing, and I say RDR, then I also say SDR, because students don't read. And then they graduate to realtor's and then realtor's don't read. But in your experience, as you train these people, are there things that the agents forgot or weren't taught properly? Yes. I would have to say a lot of it has to do with not having the right coaching, the right type of mentoring, the right training from their brokerage. And they go on and a lot of agents say, like, you know, as a PB, I would get agents who would tell me, I was afraid to call you because I would get in trouble. And I'm like, you're not going to get in trouble. In fact, if you don't call me, you will get in trouble. So call me. And I think that's the biggest thing is when agents, especially whether they're new or not, they don't call their broker for support because they feel they should know the answer. But that's what you have your broker for to help you to understand. You don't know this. So let's go over this together and provide a solution. Okay. You know that time is leading by us. I think we have to have you come back for another session here. But let's go through the questions that we had talked about. So what happened after Koal Banker and where did you go? Koal Banker, actually, I was there for five years as a manager. And then that's when Gentry Homes came back and asked me to be part of their sales team. I was with them previously as an outside broker doing their sales for seven years, seven, eight years. Then they came back and asked me to come back. And I did that for two years. I opened up KLEE, which was their executive golf course homes. Before that, I was at Pearl Ridge, which was their previous executive golf course home project. And then I realized I really like working in real estate in the trenches. You know, I love Gentry. It was a great experience. I got to know more about the project sales from a different perspective. And for me, I'm always, I'm like you, Abe, I love to train. I love to teach. And I just felt like, okay, I love doing this. I love the people, but I need to get back into real estate. And that's when I decided to go back into, and I was hired as a PD at that time with Keller Williams. Okay, so tell us about Keller Williams, because they're huge. Yes, yeah, totally different model. So that was a new experience for me. And again, new or different doesn't mean it's bad or good, right? It's just different. So for me, I got to learn a lot about that business model. And as a PB, you're really working more with policies, any litigations or claims that come in your more, it's on the more of the legal aspect. But again, I worked very closely with the agents. So it was, it was good to learn about that dynamic of the business. Because I ended up going and right after that, I got hired by EXP as their PB. You know, Jen, we only have three minutes left. We definitely have to have you come back. Because we want to talk about your workings as a volunteer with the City Affairs Committee, your role as a realistic commissioner, which is only one of nine realtors or licensees in the state of Hawaii, which is a very prestigious position that you don't get paid for. But it's a wonderful opportunity to serve. And I certainly would love to talk to you about your duties there. But EXP is a totally different animal again from Keller Williams or Poewebacker. Well, I mean, you have to then again, institute some training programs and I think finding other processes. Yes, I have to say, the lack of structure was the biggest complaint from agents. When I went and I said, what do you like? What do you not like? Broker support, not to, to the fault of the previous brokers. I'll say that to the previous TVs is not to their fault. But I had to share with the brokerage, we are in Hawaii, we're very different than the other 49 states. We do things here differently. And I had to implement structure policies and procedures. And most importantly, training. The training was so key. And just that alone, being able to shift that is where we doubled in agent size. Because agents don't look at just the model. They really want to know is the model is great. But how do I be a better agent? And how do I sustain this career over the years? And it all comes down to training. Now, EXP had about 700, 800 agents. Something like that. Yeah. 700 when I left. Yeah. Yeah. And Poewebacker was about 700, 800 agents. Yes. Yes. So you work with some pretty big companies? Big companies as well as when I started, I actually wanted to stay away from the big companies. I wanted to be in a boutique company. So it's kind of interesting that as a new agent, I found a very, I was very fortunate to have an awesome, amazing group of mentors. Elliot Lau is on one of your previous shows. And he was one of my mentors too. I was very fortunate. So to me, it's like interview, different brokerages, see what fits your style. And if it doesn't work out, that's okay. Because your first brokerage isn't usually going to be your last brokerage. And now we're going to just announce this. And some people know this, but Jen Andrews is going to be our pre licensing instructor with me at AB seminars. So I'm so excited to have her. Because as I mentioned, we taught pretty close to 11,500 students. And Jen went through the last session with me and she was there almost every session, which is really hard because it's Tuesday night, Thursday night, all day Saturday. But Jen is going to be a real stalwart to us and helping us with our pre licensing courses as well. So I'm excited to have her join us on our staff. We're out of time at this point, but Jen, we're going to have to schedule you to come back to talk about city affairs, the government affairs, and then the real estate commission, and other things I'm sure that we would love to hear from you. So thank you so much for being here. Time's flown. I know. Sorry, I talk a lot. But thank you so much. Please tell your friends, oh, thank you. Please tell viewers, please tell your friends about the show. And it'll be archived starting tomorrow. And then also we have other things that go away, finding your piece of the rock shows. Also, if you go to AD seminars, you can learn more about our school, which Jen's going to be a part of, our staff. So thank you so much, Jen, and have a great week.