 Good morning. Welcome to week 11 of our class. It's wonderful to be here and to join all of you. Welcome to all our e-learning students as well as you've joined in week after week. We hope we are being encouraged and learning together. Did you all finish your class late because I see very few students today? Your previous class? Yes, ma'am. Okay. Thank you everyone for having a five minute break. Okay. All right. I think till people come in, we'll get started and maybe just do like a quick recap about what we... So, anybody would like to go? What is it that we focused on last week? We did one of the counselling skills. Which one did we do? Questioning skills, ma'am. Okay. Thank you, Avni. Yes. We did about questioning. We did yes, Chhaya. We did productive and unproductive questions. We did open-ended. We did closed-ended questions. We looked at different kinds of questions. We also did kind of a role play to give us a fair idea about the excessive use of questions and how we may need to channelize it and intersperse it with previous skills of responding. Okay. So, today we're going to try and complete two other skills and wrap up this entire topic of counselling skills. So, the first star we'll be looking at personalizing and the next star we'll be focusing on influencing and taking action, initiating action as a skill. Okay. So, we're going to be focusing on this. So, run along with me today is probably a packed day because we have a couple of things to cover. Just to keep it in the context of what we're learning, how we're understanding. I've brought about a couple of examples so that it can get a bit more simpler for us to deal with this because these are bridged courses. We may not be able to spend too much of time on it, but at least you get a fair idea as to how it goes on. And for those of you who may be interested to taking it further and really building up these skills on a deeper level. Okay. So, I'm just going to share my screen. Just give me a minute. Okay. All right. So, we had started off with micro skills and we had looked at the initial three skills of attending, responding and questioning. Today we're going to be looking at personalizing skills. If you look at some material that's given, what I'd also like to do is by the end of today's class I will just add in some reading material for you. This is not from written by us, but then it's something that has been picked up from certain counseling textbooks. There are certain PDFs which I will attach at the end of the class on the stream so you can take some time to reading it. I will add a little bit more in detail from what your notes have so that you can just kind of recap it from those notes as well and maybe just consolidate an entire process together. So, I will be adding in a couple of material for you to read through. So, we looked at attending, responding and questioning skills and today what we're going to do on personalizing skills actually falls a lot under responding skills. Okay. So, there is a large part of it in responding but I've just broken it down a little bit more so that there isn't a confusion. It gets hard sometimes when you're just learning it theoretically to really pick up the difference between these and how it is done differently. So, I've just taken it as a separate thing so maybe in the notes that you may be reading you may find it coming under responding skills. Okay. So, don't get worried. It's all there. It's just the way that it becomes categorized often differs from author to author. Okay. So, personalizing skills where we had spoken about this the last time when you look at the meaning of the word personalizing, what do you think it means? What does the word to personalize mean? We had spoken about this a bit last time, right? Oh, sorry. I think I stopped sharing. I'm sorry. Just a minute. Just a minute. Okay. So, what do you mean by the word personalizing? What does the word in itself, an English word mean to personalize? Personalize. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Something in terms of your own self like personalizing means pertaining to me. Okay. Okay. Good. Personal to me. Then it matters to me more than others. That's personal. Okay. Good. Good. That's an excellent attempt. Okay. So, when you're looking at personalizing, it is trying to look at, like Avni rightly said, what, how does something appear to me? What is the meaning of a certain situation to me? How, when I say I'm personalizing it, I'm looking at the way that I am personally involved in a certain event or how do I contribute to a certain situation or an event? So, that's what, so the focus, when you're saying personalizing, the focus is coming back to you or the focus as in counseling, the focus is coming back to the counseling. That's what the word specifically means to personalize. So, let's look at it in a little bit more of detail. So, when, what is the meaning of it? So, just taking it a step before. Okay. The skill that we learned earlier on responding. When you respond empathetically, what you're doing is your, remember, we said that we enter into the frame of reference of the individual. Right? You're entering into the experience of the other person so that you can help them to explore where they are in their lives. So, when you respond to them, you are communicating your understanding of the, of the person, as well as the problem that they're going through. So, you're validating their summary and you're responding. You're kind, you're talking about what you're, remember, we spoke about responding to the feeling, responding to the meaning, responding to the content. So, we spoke about, so that's what you do in the skill above. Now, in personalizing, what you're doing is you're helping the counselor to become more aware of the fact that they are also, they also may be playing apart in the problem. They may be playing apart in the situation themselves. Okay. So, it emphasizes internalizing those experience, which they are a part of. So, in other words, in other words, what we're saying is that we internalize our understanding about our problem. And we are growing to know ourselves more in the midst of that problem. How would the counselor be reacting or responding or mediating or improving or decreasing or affecting the problem? So, that's what personalizing means. You're actually helping them to become aware of how much they are a part of the problem that they have discussed. So, that's what the word personalizing means. Now, let's look at the purpose of it. What would it mean to, when you're saying personalizing, what is it bringing about? Here, it enables the counselor to understand where they are with respect to where they want to be. For example, they are at a place A, okay, the problem that they are in. So, what you're doing, the purpose of this is to enable them to understand to move from point A to point B. I'm feeling frustrated about something. I want to feel better about it. There is discord over here. I want to make that okay. This is what I think about this over here. I want to think about this better. So, it is helping them to understand where they should be going from where they are. So, what you're doing is by personalizing, you are creating a conversation with them that facilitates their understanding of where they want to be. So, you're helping them look for themselves. Where is it that they are to where they want to be? So, it's a dialogue between where they are in their reality to where they would like to be more ideally. Okay, so they are unhappy with where they are right now, but they are hopeful that they can become more real or become a different part of maybe a more ideal situation or an ideal self. So, by personalizing this, you are helping them to bring about change. So, you are as a counselor, you become an agent of change. So, let me give you an example. So, the counselor may report that things are not going too well at my home because my wife does not understand me. So, what happens over here is, well, the counselor you find that is putting all the blame on the wife for the presence condition. Okay, but it is likely that the husband in this case may also have a part in the problem situation. So, the most effective method to improve a situation is for the counselor to acknowledge that she's playing or he's playing a part in this problem and to work out a way of lessening or improving it all together. So, we see that growth begins when blaming stops. Okay, because in conditions you see in personalizing, you're dealing with the counselor's contribution to the problem, not with the contribution of the other person. So, we're facilitating, here we facilitate what we're doing is personalized understanding when we are helping the counselor in internalizing or owning the meaning of their experiences or owning their problems or owning whatever the issues or owning their goals or whatever they want or what they need. So, that's the purpose of it is to get them to understand where they are at in the midst of their problem. How much of this is something that they can take ownership to. So, often when people do come in for counseling, it's a lot more external, right? And this may take a couple of sessions. This doesn't happen at the first time because in the first time you are giving them time to just be able to share what they're experiencing in it. So, personalizing happens only when you have grounded and responded well in their situation to help them to focus back on what may be a challenge in their lives. Okay, so that is what the purpose of personalizing is. So, to just quickly summarize, when the counselor focuses on others, they are externalizing their experiences. They almost bring about the fact that they aren't involved in any way in resolving their problem. And it almost, when you don't personalize, it's almost like they don't have any kind of a say or a contribution in working this out. But by focusing upon themselves, you are helping them internalizing, internalize their experiences. So, internalizing is making the counseling accountable for their experience or what their part of the contribution is in their cases. Okay, so let's look at, when we're looking at personalizing, we're saying it involves, first of all, formulating and communicating these individualized responses. So, you are, now this the counseling themselves may not come about to understand. Okay. In most cases, I'm not saying in all, but in most cases, they may come to a place of not of always being external focused. So, what it requires for you to do is formulating that for them or communicating what it truly would mean to them. And you do that through these four ways. Feeling, so you're personalizing a feeling, you're personalizing a meaning, you're personalizing a problem, or you're personalizing a goal. Okay, so it involves you as a counselor to be able to bring about an understanding and communicating that understanding to them through just a response. Okay, and we'll look at more detail in that for a better example. Okay, so why, so before we personalize, there's something that we need to do. And that's why the skill of personalizing comes within the skill of responding. So if you need to personalize, you should initially respond to feelings and that's why you should get the feelings in the open. Because if the feelings aren't in the open, it's stuck inside and they are not really able to see for themselves what the situation means for them. Okay, and how they need to deal with their own feelings. So the reason why you should get the feelings out in the open and that's what we've been learning throughout in the responding skills is you are helping them to learn to deal with the emotions that's coming about. They begin to, as they begin to articulate their emotions, they begin to see that they have an agency about their own emotions, the emotions are coming out from them. So the more they explore their own feelings, the more they are likely to channel them constructively. Okay, so they may say I feel so dejected, I feel so upset about this, I want to change the way that I feel. Okay, so there you've got them in some way to personalize it that, you know, they're taking the onus and saying, this is how I feel, and I want to begin to change the way that I feel. So they've begun to personalize and say, okay, you feel this way, like you may, this is how you would personalize a feeling you say, you know, you feel really dejected, but you want to feel a lot more hopeful about your situation. And that comes in only when the counselor responds and says, okay, you feel dejected, but you would like to be more hopeful about the situation, or you feel unhappy, but you really want to begin to feel a lot more constructive about this. So you see from where they were, you feel hopeless or you feel dejected to a place that they want to be. And the key point here is, which I will come into later, is where you are bringing the counselor back into the game. Okay, and that comes in in your response and I will bring that up a little later. So what are we trying to look at here is so that that's exactly why it's important to help to respond to their feelings so that they get it out. Okay, they are able to share what they've what they're feeling, so that you can help them, one, to work with it to deal with it and also to find ways of how they can move from position A to position B, and you're giving them a chance to think a little bit more with clarity. Okay, now to go through this entire personalizing skills, I'm just going to take an example, so that you know it helps us to to build on on what we're learning others it just becomes very conceptual. Okay, so here's Anita, a second pu student. Okay, so for those, for those of us who are not in India second pu student is a 12th grader. Right, so a 12th grader says, things are not going so good for me in school. I just seem to be floundering. I fake it every day but inside I'm really down, because I'm not sure of what to do, or where I want to go. This is the situation that that Anita has come to you with. Okay, so what, what do you do in a situation like this the first and foremost thing is, you, you establish a good base of communication a good therapeutic relationship. It's all that what we have learned is something that we need to do prior to getting into this place of personalizing. Okay, so before you make those personalized responses, you must establish a good base of communication. And so what would that be you make multiple responses that bring about the content, the feeling the meaning we spoke about all of that in responding skills. We did all of that and that's what you're doing. Okay. When you're when you're building a good base of communication and a relationship you're also helping. You're also understanding what is going on. Also, you are communicating the accuracy of your understanding to what the counseling has said so that both of you all are in the same page. And that's exactly why you may need to dwell on exploring a little more, rather than getting into a place of finding a solution. Because you, you want to get into the frame of reference of the of your counseling, so that you're not talking from your head you're not talking from your experience but you've done that enough to understand to explore enough so that it's almost like you have become almost like okay it's not like it is not it is but almost like you're experiencing the same struggle that they're going through. Okay, so it when you're doing that when you're building when you're doing that enough. You are helping the counseling to find out what they are willing to understand and what they're willing to tell us. So the response part of it that especially the first part the E self exploration is extremely important. And that's why you spend time to really understand it greater understand what they're feeling how what is the actual content of the problem. What is the meaning that they are given to the problem. What are the goals that they have so I hope you're able to recollect what we have done this far and the importance of doing that. Before you can get into this place of personalizing. Okay, so with Anita, this, this young girl, you have done that over and over and over again. And now you're coming to a place of actually personalizing her problem. So, in. Yeah, sorry. So, so in when you're responding what are you doing. Sorry, I'm just going to put that put that case again. So this is what she said right so when you are responding to her feelings. This is what you are probably saying you're responding to the feeling and the content. This is what we've learned. You feel discouraged because things aren't going too well for you at school. Yeah, at school. This is what happened. This is what's going on. And I feel this way. Oh, you sound really dejected about that because of what, you know, maybe your, your, your teachers have spoken about so you're actually building on that before you can get into a place of personalizing So you're responding to a feeling and content building it well enough so that you have a fair enough idea about what is going on in every realm of her, her, her thoughts, her feelings, her, her, her behavior, her, her needs, all of that seems to have come about through that initial part of just working through that. Now what are you doing in personalizing in personalizing the counseling experiences are internal internalized by introducing the counseling into the responses now what does that mean you are helping them internalize it for them so if you look at the formula it says you feel something because you All right. So remember that that word you have internalized it back to them. You feel like this, because you feel a strong need to push out of this fakery. Okay, so that's what you're doing to personalizing. Whereas look at the responding one. You're just responding to the feeling and content you haven't personalized that you're saying it's more the content you say you feel discouraged because things aren't going too well at school it's still external focused you see that it's still external focus but then you are drawing out what they feel about what is external but in personalizing you are in helping to internalize them that by introducing them into that equation. So what you're saying you feel discouraged because you feel a strong need to push out of this fakery right so it what what you you turn the course and said okay. This is not where you are at. Okay, and you feel that this is not where you want to be. Okay, or this is this is not where this is what what you you don't want to happen. So you have bought it back to the to the counseling themselves to to bring about a fairer understanding that how much as how much they are involved in in this in in the struggle or in this issue. So when you're responding meaning you're you're using that externalizing format you feel because that so it's all because of what is happening in school, but when you internalize, you're introducing the counselors responses using this format. Okay, you feel dash because you dash. Okay, and that is that is that example that's that's given over for you. Okay, so let's just go back to that example once again. Okay, so here in there is a there is another response that is given in personalizing here. Personalizing is towards the content. Okay, so you feel upset because you don't like stumbling like this in school. Okay, so it has gone back to the student it's gone back to Anita and not about what is happening in her environment. Right, so, so by these statements seem very simple and you may be wondering how would this change it for them. But you know it's amazing to see that the way that that that and for some people, they may catch on quickly but maybe for some you may really need to keep going on to really work this out. So, for example, let's say Anita didn't catch what you were saying. So you may say something like this you feel upset because you don't like stumbling like this in school. How do you think you probably are contributing to what is going on or how do you think that there is a role that you may be playing in with with whatever is happening. So there it gets the person to think okay may say that and I just don't work hard or I don't do this I feel under motivated so it comes back to them you're helping them bring that connection back to where they are at. Okay, so we will move on to to looking at the next one so we said when you're personalizing your your your personalizing different things what you're doing here is your you need to also personalize the meaning of the situation. For example, you're looking at what are the effects of the situation on the counseling. What is the implication that is going on because of what is happening. So in this, you're trying to help the the counseling answer these questions. Okay, what is the effect of the situation upon them. Okay, that is, it's a personal consequence of their experience. Now because this is happening. What is the consequence that you're going through. Often they cannot or you know, may not really completely articulate information about these implications themselves they will they will not tell you you know, because of this I'm going through this I'm going through this is my future is they may not say that for them it's also external focus that they haven't got a chance to really think about its implications, or you're also looking at the personal beliefs that causing that's causing them to feel the way about the situation. What are the assumptions that they are making that they seem to be stuck in that situation. Okay, so now this is moving a little bit extra so we're saying she may be going through a lot of assumptions that you know that that that probably that she's not good enough or that she's unable to get get what she's looking for or the colleges is a bad college so there are certain assumptions that that she may be operating from so one implications that's what are the effects of this on her. And what are the assumptions that's making her stay in that situation, and it's only when we bringing about this personalizing the meaning, do these things become more, more evident. Okay, so personalizing meaning will involve identifying those common themes that they may be thinking about, or finding out what are the implications or the effects of the situation upon the counseling, or identifying what are those personal beliefs that's causing the counseling to feel this way about the situation so that's what we are attempting to work on. So, so here, the formula still remains the same you feel dash because you remember that is something that you're bringing in for example we say you feel devastated because you know you're maybe in another you feel devastated because you feel you're dependent upon upon maybe you know if she's bought about some other information dependent upon some people there. So you're, you're attempting to personalize what she may be going through. So what you're doing is you're looking for common themes in the expressions of the counseling. And these themes often relate to what the counseling is saying either about themselves, or if they're saying about others, or of the situation in itself. So the common themes are those themes that are generally intermingled in the expressions of the counseling. So if we were to look at the example again, so you look at the meaning that is bought about here, you feel upset because your future will be affected if you don't do well in college this year. So it's become a meaning now if I do all of this, your future gets affected, if you don't do well now you're bringing about that so that they take agency, they take responsibility they take onus for what is going on. So here when use when as a counselor, when you're helping in that personalizing you're bringing them back to that, the meaning of this entire problem for them, okay, and you're making them more aware that hey, yes, my future probably gets gets affected and here it's a, it's an assumption that she's probably made not an assumption it's an implication that she's made the effect of what the situation will be for her. Okay, now, as you keep moving forward, let's look at how do you personalize a problem. Now in personalizing a problem, you're looking at what is there about the counseling themselves that is contributing to the problem so you're looking into into a deeper way as to how the problem is affecting now how they are part of that problem so when you personalize a problem you're helping them to understand what is it that they are unable to do that has led them to the present experience of that they are going through. Okay, so what is there about the counseling that is contributing to them so what is probably there in their personality or in their, you know, in the way that they're doing things. So you're helping them to focus on that so by this what you're doing is you're helping them to take responsibility for things that they can control for things that they can look to themselves as maybe as a source of their problem. So it involves maybe looking at deficits that they may be having, or it looks at maybe specifying certain skills that they don't have. So that's what you would do when you're actually personalizing the problem you're getting the counseling to look at themselves for for something that doesn't seem to be changing. Now let's look at Anita's case now Anita has what about another extra information. And if you look at it she's saying I'm the school basketball team basketball teams captain and I spent two hours every evening in practice. I'm left with no time or energy to study. Okay, so if you see how are you personalizing the problem here, you're saying you feel upset or you feel, you know, worried or frustrated because you cannot spend enough time studying. All right, so here, there is something that she is contributing to so you're bringing about the problem that you're making the problem her own saying, okay, you're facing a rough time in college you're also having a basketball practice. Which gives you not enough time to study so you're kind of helping them helping her see where is the problem lying. Okay, so do you see that because you have you have responded well enough, she has given you certain additional information that probably gives you a lot more clarity about what is going on in her life. Okay, she let's say she adds in another sentence. Okay, at the end she says I should never have agreed to being the captain. She says I should have never agreed to being the captain. So how do you personalize in this one. So you can probably there's a new feeling that's coming here so you're saying you feel angry because you have taken on more than you can handle or you've taken on much more than you can show. Okay, so it gives an understanding to her that my problem is existing because of the fact that I have taken on very many things and I'm not able to prioritize my time or not able to focus on something else because my attention is on something. So when you're doing this, it really brings about a lot more clarity about where and what is it that requires that specific change. So that's that's how you focus back on personalizing a problem. Okay, now moving to the next one. How do you personalize a goal personalizing a goal is it involves you're trying to establish like we said where the client was. And where they would like to be so where the where the where the counseling wants to be in relation to where they are so they're point A to point B. So here the counseling, when you when they reach here they are demonstrating their readiness to move from discussing their problems to discussing their goals. So when you've come to a place of you know personalizing meaning personalizing feeling personalizing problem, they've come to a place to say hey okay now I would like to move from here here to there. Okay, so they so even as when the counseling begins to see this they are ready to respond to their problems the way we have been attempting to do it for them. Okay, so what you what you're attempting to get them is on the focus from the external into the internal by by doing all of personalizing meaning feeling and then coming to a goal and say okay. Now you feel you cannot handle this. So what is the next step. So the basic way to personalize goal is to determine the behaviors that are opposite of the problem. Okay, so it's very simple in the sense of they want to. So she's come up to saying that I can't handle so many things. Okay, I this is the the the thing that she wants to do is I want to learn how to handle all of this. Okay, so the big the way to personalize those goals is to determine what are those behaviors or action points that are opposite of of the personalized of the problem that she's she's getting into. Okay, so what do you do here is first of all establish where they want to be. Where is it that they want to go. Okay, so maybe it starts off it probably gets in with a question. Okay, you've you've shared with me that schools been difficult. You've also shared with me that you are a basketball captain and that you've taken on a lot of things. And you really would like to change all of this or you would really need or learn want to learn how to handle this. Okay, I need to let me let me ask you a question. Where is it that you would like to be at this point of time if all of this sorted out for you. Where is it that you would like to be so you're asking a question to help to understand what does she have in her mind in the way that she would like to discuss it. I will take up questions in a few minutes once I'm done with this. Okay, so I don't fit it as stop the flow and then I'll handle those questions. So what you what you're getting to do is asking her where is it that you would like to be. Okay, now she may say, okay, I want to learn how to handle all of this together. And when you're personalizing goals, you're also helping her to look at what is contributing to resolving that problem. What is there in you that you're not able to resolve that specific problem. Okay, so this is the formula that you use you feel dash because you cannot dash and you want to dash. So if you see because you cannot handle your time and you want to learn how to manage all of this together. So you feel frustrated because you cannot handle multiple things together and you really want to get a hold of all of this in school. So you have personalized the goal you have bought about the fact that there is a problem. Okay, that she sees she's taken the responsibility of that problem and she wants to work that out. Okay. All right, so, so you have an additional thing over here that she says Anita says my dream is to become a doctor and I've taken the science stream. I did poorly in my first term exams I'm disappointed in myself for not studying enough. Okay, so what are you personalizing here you're personalizing the goals if you look at the example. You feel dejected because you cannot put in the hours required and you want to be able to do well in your exams. All right, so there's a problem here, according to this, this statement that she's made, you cannot put in the hours required, and you really want to do well in your exams. Okay, so, so here again, you've got them to own up and say, okay, you really want to do well in your exams and maybe your next question would would be. Maybe it's, do you think it would be a good idea to really brainstorm to see what is it that you can do to put in your hours of study, or what is it that you can do to help yourself well in your exams. Okay, so you've got her back in her own action and not about the school and the college and all of that that's that's going as as peripheral for her. Okay, now, now, even as you're doing that what are you doing, you're also continuously doing a feeling check with respect to her goals. Okay, so Anita may say, yeah, I really want to do well in my exam so there again, now you're bringing back a hopeful feeling so that there is a sense of, you know, a sense of hope, a sense of knowing that's that this is not as bad as she initially expressed it to be that she, once she's personalized the problem, she would be able to find ways in dealing with her issues so you feel hopeful, because you're going to figure out how you can do well in your exams right. So, maybe that that question of, you know, what would you like to do to to change the way that you study your study in your exams so she may say, yeah, maybe I should for this semester give up my basketball. I should really focus on this probably take a break in that or maybe I should time manage so she's giving you these kind of thoughts and then at the end of it. You're doing a feeling check you say oh you you seem to be really hopeful even as you're thinking about ways in which you can you are you're working out to do these exams. So that that helps them to come to a place of working through, you know, moving into the next phase of of being able to take on action. So if you look, if you looked at the entire process of it, if you go on to looking at the entire process of it, you will find that you're moving them from an external experience into an internal experience and trying to help them formulate themselves. What are what do they feel about it personally and where would they like to be what do they, what are the implications or the other consequences that they feel will happen, what are the certain assumptions that they are going through. And lastly, what is the goal that so you move them to that place in actually working this out to help themselves. Okay. All right. I think I'll take questions right now. Nisha, I think you had a question. Nisha, do you have a question. Okay, sorry. All right, all right. Okay, is, would anyone have any doubts any questions here because this is one chunk of it and any any kind of any questions any thoughts about this. You're on mute. But yeah, I'll ask my question. Go ahead, Samir. I'm not on mute. Okay, sorry. Supposed to some thinking. So, so the goal, so I'm just checking my understanding of some while I'm trying to frame my question. So the goal of personalizing is, you know, so this this generally, so it happens after a while like after you build an Apple with the Counselor, you've gained trust, you've responded, you've kind of had a good understanding of the problem and you've established some goals. And then now we are kind of trying to bring in the personalized and and it's what I understand is it's for us to help the counseling, you know, have a change in perception or even shift in perception to see like, okay, how am I playing a part in this problem and what can I do. So if that's the goal. But the point that I'm contemplating is a lot of times I think people do come in blaming themselves already a lot. Maybe I'm so I don't know but it's like, you know, I don't think I'm cut out for engineering or, you know, I'm not someone who can work remotely. I lack discipline, or I lack motivation. I'm not motivated enough. So, so people already, you know, they're coming in with the with a personalized view of themselves like I should be working I should not be procrastinating I should be working hard enough but I just, I just can't so you know, so is it always the counseling who has something like like let's say in Anita's case, you know, what if she would have enjoyed more taking up humanities or not being like maybe, you know, she's just good in sports and, you know, just probably out of parents or peer pressure she ended up being the captain, whereas she would have enjoyed more in arts and theater, but she just couldn't like she couldn't make either the distinction or she just gave into family peer pressure. And she stuck with him and so I think the point that I'm trying to make is safe if a counselor likes the the personalized if the goal of personalizing is to make the counseling see his or her own part in the problem. But to what end, you know, like if especially if the counseling is coming already with a personalized view saying, you know, I would have enjoyed myself more than a man like let's say just the scale like I would have enjoyed my problem, taking my own case back in college. I still feel like I would have, I was more of a humanities student, but because of peer pressure bandwagon and all that stuff I just took up science and then I just, I didn't enjoy, and I just like end up floundering in college. But I knew I was in the wrong stream, but I didn't have like I just didn't like you do it is it was too much for me to change streams midway I just felt like I could just go through it. But eventually just like when I still look back it's like I could have done much better in college if I have taken a different stream. Okay, so what Okay, so I think the summit what you're saying is many a times, counseling may come in with already knowing that. Okay, you think they've personalized the problem. I don't think they I don't think that's personalizing the problem there they have come in thinking about that they have been a cause towards their own problem they've been the source of their problem. Right. And so what you're doing as a counselor there is to help them take accountability and responsibility for the fact that even, even if they have been the source of their own problem, they can also be the solution to their problem. So you're bringing them to a place where you're helping them seem like for Anita, maybe there are certain implications of wrong choices that certain consequences that has come by. Okay, or there are certain assumptions she's making about herself with regard to the course or another possibility that you said is it's absolutely it's a wrong choice and so it wasn't a well thought of decision. So what you're doing over here is getting them to come to a place where they can take onus for the wrong decision and look at ways of how they can work something out for themselves if they have another goal. So she may say something like Okay, I joined the stream. I'm really unhappy at the stream. So maybe there is a requires a little exploration to find out. Okay, you seem extremely unhappy of this. If you had a chance to do something else. What, what do you think that would be now this is why exploration is very, very important, because only if you're able to gather this kind of a data is, are you able to move forward in helping personalize. And I think it this also relates to a question that Beth asked, what about, you know, there's no change in if you cannot change a situation like for example, she says, Anita says you know I chose the stream because I like it I really want how I just don't feel motivated to do it. So there's a situation she doesn't want to change. But it could be just a, I think, I think that was the one of, yeah, she said, what if it's only an attitude, right, so you will understand that only number one if you've explored enough. Secondly, when you're able to personalize this and help them see that you know, is this an assumption. Okay, you feel this way, because, you know, you have a certain belief about it, maybe there's a certain belief about about it, it takes a lot of hard work to get into the stream and that's maybe something that I wasn't prepared for. Maybe that's the assumption that she's come come with. Okay, so you may say, Okay, you feel you feel this is a really hard thing because you feel hard work is something that that you didn't expect to put the hard work is not something that you expected to do. There you've personalized the problem. Now to personalize the goal. Okay, is is maybe she says you know I want to do it I really want to do it. So probably it is going back to to helping her see that it assumption that she needs to work out of, or it's something that you know she she requires to change meaning about it and saying Okay, this is what I thought about it but now, since I have reviewed meaning of it renewed meaning of it, maybe there are certain action points that I may need to do. So when they come in, like the case that you said Samuel, they think that the source of the problem, they don't feel that they are the solution to their problem themselves. And that's what you're doing in counseling is you're helping them look back at what can you do to change the situation that you're in. It may be behaviorally, it may be through your emotions, it may be just having a better meaning of it, it may be just having a better attitude to it, it may be just bringing down your expectations of it so any of this, that's what the counseling needs to do so that's why you bring them back to a place of personalizing it then remember you're not in personalizing you're not making them feel that you know you're not creating guilt because they've been the source of the problem. In fact, what you're attempting to do through that is giving them the hope that there are resources inside of you that you can bring about a change and that's what you are bringing them to. So when you personalize this for them and give them the hope that you know hey this is the goal, you know you would really like to do, like to get forward into medicine but you just feel hard work is difficult for you. But you want to look at ways that you can work on the struggle so you've brought them back to that understanding of what is their agency in working through that. I hope I answered your question. Absolutely, I'm a very important distinction. It's so much clearer now. Okay, all right, Justin and I just going to look at bets question the second question would you say there is always some point where we can take responsibility for a situation and take action. Did you mean. Okay, yeah, the counseling. Yes, in every situation. It's the counseling that needs to take action, even if the problem is on the other side, let's say there is physical abuse, okay. In a in a home that is physical abuse, and the wife comes to you and say this is what my husband's doing. What you're doing is you're helping them to take on and see how they are contributing into the problem by not doing anything. So that's what you bring them back to personalizing the situation them for them so that they move up forward to figuring out a way on how to address that problem. Right, so yes, you in every situation, it is bringing them to a point to take responsibility, even if they are not the cause of the problem or the source is not from them and it's completely external. You're still going to help them to figure out how is it that they can take agency and how is it that they can take on a role in in moving from a place of you know I don't want him to hit me to a place of I want to be safe. So what can you do about it, you know what is it I mean that's what you're moving them to so that they take the responsibility and say okay maybe I should get somebody's help or maybe I should take legal help or maybe I should be more firm or I should go discuss this with my parents. And that happens only when you're able to get them to personalize it and own that problem for themselves. Okay, I hope that was clear. Okay, all right, we're at 1055. Let's have a 10 minute break and come back at 1150 on my clock. Meet you soon.